From elephant-talk at arastar dot comThu Oct 5 07:04:28 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:03:18 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #226 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 226, Wednesday, 4 October 1995 Today's Topics: ELEPHANT TALK: Wetton in NYC 10/8 Lizard/B'Boom Elephant Talk Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #225 Previously unreleased Fripp track Fripp: Teacher, Taper new haven shows A First-Timer Lays Down A Long One Pre-LTiA Crimson MPFC flying sheep sketch KC in Roland Catalog for Elephant Talk Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #225 crimsocovers Re: Tamm's book, Jamie Muir, XTC, etc. Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #225 Improv, Risk, and Magic. Central Park 1969 (no subject) Holst, the Devil's Triangle, and Eric Tamm Cadence & Cascade / Flight of the Ibis Wetton in concert Jamie Muir, XTC, etc. Confirmed Wetton Info on Tour Extra Promo singles of "People" Right director, wrong film; Paul Bowles; & LTiA For ET sonic b'booms KC in Wilkes-Barre Fripp Movie b'boom The latest CD´s Fripp and Gunn's hide and seek game... Various points in #225 Wetton in Buffalo Crimson night at Yokohama GIG REVIEWS: Crimson night at Yokohama YE OLDE TIX SHOPPE: 1 ticket for Los Angeles Oct 22nd for sale 1 ticket for Marin Show SELLING SF TIX / LOOKING 4 LA TIX [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/index/topics/etopics.htm FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/elephant-talk-faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:26:47 -0600 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Wetton in NYC 10/8 Hi to all-- Just a quick post to say that John Wetton is playing two shows on October 8 at The Bottom Line (Mercer St. at West 4th St.) in NYC. Show times are 7:30 and 10:30. Tickets are $15.00. I don't know if these shows are sold out or not. Call (212)228-6300 for info. Cheers, Chris Van Valen Don't fight it, it's over your head. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:37:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "RICK CHURCHILL, ELIHU BURRITT LIBRARY" Subject: Lizard/B'Boom Yet another "old fart" who still holds an odd fondness for "Lizard". I still like this one the best of all the early incarnations. It was my 1st KC album- I was 15 or so when it came out and thought it absolutely frightening. Just recently purchased the cd and it's strangeness holds up well. However... On the heels of the impressive "Thrak" I am just now giving "B'Boom" a good blast. I find it incredible that this is a live recording of a group a few weeks back from a 10 year+ hiatus. The playing is absolutely stunning all around. This lineup is, IMHO, the best yet. And for W. New England Crimso fans, tickets are available now for the 11/17 show at The Paramount in Springfield, MA. I have not seen it advertised anywhere, but I secured a pair over the phone last week. Rick churchill at csusys dot ctstateu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 01:17:54 0500 From: tonyola Subject: Elephant Talk <> Yeah, Toby, I'd have to agree with that. In fact, the three John McLaughlin albums that featured Walden on drums ('Inner Worlds', 'Apocalypse', 'Visions of the Emerald Beyond') stank compared to 'Birds of Fire', 'Devotion', or 'Inner Mounting Flame'. Perhaps "Planetary Citizen" is not the the "worst tune ever recorded by anyone, ever", as you say (after all, it has to compete with "You're Having My Baby", "Wind Beneath My Wings", and"Seasons In The Sun" for that distinction - I'll also throw in Crimson's "Lady Of The Dancing Waters"), but it is pure tripe. Speaking of bad music, Peter Sinfield's 1973 solo album 'Still' proved to be a clunker. The music itself is very well played - after all, he had top session help, including Phil Jump and a raft of Crimson alumni, but Sinfield has a weak, breathy, and effeminate voice with a poor sense of pitch and an effective range of perhaps one octave. His voice works alright for "Song Of The Sea Goat" (which attains a certain majesty despite Sinfield's pretentious and vague lyrics, and is musically based upon Vivaldi's "Four Seasons") and "The Night People" (a cool/jazzy art song in which his weedily sinuous singing actually fits the music). His attempts to "rock out" in "Soul Food", however, are laughable as his attempts to do a Roger Daltrey end up as a thin, high shriek. He at least got Greg Lake to handle the high notes on the title ballad - Greg should have sung the whole album. Too many of the songs are overly conventional ballads or rockers, and he attempts an uptempo country ballad (complete with pedal steel) with dire results. Overall, a pathetic stab at commercial acceptance. So to all you ET readers who were wondering about this minor Crimson footnote, Tonyola says to put this record in the oven and melt it into the shape of a candy dish (the CD would make a dandy drink coaster, and you wouldn't even have to heat it up). Seek out 'MacDonald and Giles', though - this one's a delight, but it may not be what you expect. There is nothing very Crimson-ish (or even Foreigner-ish) at all about this album, and it will seem very lightweight compared to 'In The Court Of The Crimson King', but there's lots of skillful playfulness in the music, and MacDonald and Giles harmonize nicely on the vocals. It also has plenty of Ian MacDonald's sax playing, which is never a bad thing. "Suite In C" and the side-long "Birdman" are the highlights. Tonyola says to give this one a chance, and it will grow on you. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 22:29:19 -0700 From: tcona at ix dot netcom dot com (Anthony J. Cona,Jr. ) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #225 I'm going to let you in on a secret.I think I can tell you that at least 3 different tunes will be used on the second leg of the tour. These are: Neurotica,Three of a Perfect Pair,Thela Hun Ginjeet. I personally would like to see this band try something like a revamped rendition of Sailor's Tale or In the Wake of Poseidon.I think Adrian Belew's vocal ability would make the latter very interesting. How many of you think that this band should give a try at performing one of Crimson's older classics. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:41:34 +0000 From: asphodel at interport dot net (Erik Gilbert) Subject: Previously unreleased Fripp track VARIOUS ARTISTS - SWARM OF DRONES (Asphodel/Sombient 0953) After some unforeseen problems, the double CD follow up to The Throne of Drones will be in stores October 17. Over 140 minutes of continuous soundscape music, featuring '2000 II' from Robert Fripp, a previously unreleased track exclusive to this compilation. Also features: Steve Roach, Robert Rich, Vidna Obmana, Jeff Greinke, Lull, KK Null/James Plotkin, Rhythm & Noise, Michel Redolfi, dj Cheb i Sabbah, Insect Funeral, Janis Mattox, Aloof Proof, X-Ray, Ned Bouhalassa, Iso Ambient Orchestra,Naut Humon, Gregory Lenczycki, Xopher Davidson and Maryanne Amacher. "The Throne of Drones proves one of the most compelling electronic releases available" Alternative Press "Gorgeous, subtle electronics abound" Keyboard Asphodel, PO Box 51,Chelsea Station,New York, NY 10113, USA Tel: 212-463-9181 / Fax: 212-463-9423 / Email: asphodel at interport dot net Website: http://www.wilder.net/stc [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 30 Sep 95 18:25:38 EDT From: Josh Emery <73174 dot 3300 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Fripp: Teacher, Taper >>If one accepts a teacher as THEIR teacher, then it is extremely important >>to follow the instructions of the teacher. Whether or not they seem to >>_make sense_ in any traditional context. If you do not follow the teacher's >>teachings, then you may as well not bother following at all. >Agreed. And this all makes sense, except that King Crimson records all of >its own shows! If Fripp is so opposed to people recording their own >performances (as he's told his students), then why is he permitting his own >band to record the shows? According to a post from Kevin O'Conner in the special *boot* edition of ET if an artist tapes his performance he then owns the copyright. I think this may be one reason Fripp tapes so he has leagle recourse. Or since he does business in the market place but refuses to follow the rules of the marketplace - he can jst release an official boot to attemp to thwart the professional bootlegger. If he isn't willing to live by the rules he gives others, then he's a hypocrite. >As for the comments on Robert's "philosophy" or "religion" or whatever else >you want to call his belief, give it a break. If you believe what he's >saying fine. But don't try to convince me. The fact that the man is a >great musician does not make him an expert on metaphysics or anything else. Niether Ed nor Robert ever tried to convince you. >Looking back at my post, I may have been a little "strong" in my opinions >concerning the California Guitar Trio. Maybe someone can educate me >"CLUNK!" Excuse me, yes that was just the sound of my mind snapping back >into its normal "closed" position. Is there anyone else feels they are a >little rigid & automatonic? If not, I will attempt to gratefully accept >them with open arms, if not an open mind. I think the CGT are very good, especialy their original pieces. When they played Yamanashi Blues followed by Melrose Ave. the hair on my arms was standing up. It didn't sound rigid ot all to me, it was hot. But hey, we all have different opinions right? I find a lot of John McLaughlin sounding *very* automatonic. Do you like The Robert Fripp String Quintet? Also for all the CGT bashers that have posted - Im curious, do you like Guitar Craft Music? Josh [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 20:22:55 -0400 From: eric at planet dot net Subject: new haven shows I infered by a recent post that the New Haven KC shows have gone on sale... why wasn't that info posted?!?! Please, if you have information about a show, please let us know. Esp. the Longacre shows in NYC in November, nothing I've seen indicates anything time wise... thanks in advance.. eric. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 01:17:35 -0400 From: ad827 at freenet dot carleton dot ca (Jeff Green) Subject: A First-Timer Lays Down A Long One Greetings to Toby and all the ET regulars. This is my first post and forgive me if by way of self-indulgent introduction I take a grotesque amount of space to touch on some of my various interfaces with the KC/Fripp legacy. I trust it will be rewarding enough to justify the volume. Firstly, an aside. As another longtime Mahavishnu fan (saw them once open for Zappa -- Birds of Fire era -- what a double bill!) I agree with Toby that Inner Worlds represents a low point, however I think the song Lotus Feet from side two, with John on synth-guitar, Narada Michael Walden on congas and Stu Goldberg on mini-moog, is one of the most beautiful songs from the entire body of work extant. As for KC, I am a longtime fan. In fact I am such a fan of music in general that I very early on got involved in the industry in a peripheral way: primarily radio and journalism. In that professional capacity I have been fortunate enough to have met and spoken several times with Robert, twice in formal one-on-one interviews. I have also interviewed Bruford, and met and spoken with Wetton, Belew, Levin, and Greg Lake (and many other musicians of the non-Crimson variety). In reading the extensive debate in the ET digests on concert taping I am reminded of a phone interview I did with Fripp in 1981 as he toured and promoted the League of Gentlemen project. In that conversation we engaged in a lengthy debate about taping that became so involving that he ended up going way over his allotted time, missing other scheduled interviews. The substance of his argument at that time is the same as others have purported it is now, that the act of taping by an audience member shifts that individuals focus and thus detracts from the overall group experience. I suggested that perhaps a musical performance has a finite amount of intangible "energy", and that the experience of the initial event is diluted by the amount that any recording of that event is subsequently audited in time (in which case a massively-reproduced classic performance such as Janis Joplin at Monterey would have had to have been utterly lifeless in its first experience). Though amused by the notion he didn't believe this idea any more than you probably do. On the other hand it seems to me there's a problem with his anti-taping stance. If the unified, undistracted mindstate of the audience/performer unit is the goal of the event then it seems logical that in this equation the performer is by far the most important component. Surely the impact of the artist's distraction due to recording or complicated technical demands will be far greater than that from one or two wayward audience members. This would explain why Fripp would choose to record EVERY show, since this would eliminate taping as a significant occurrence, ideally dropping it in his mind to the background level of distraction equivalent to all of the technical concerns of amplified live performance. This would not, however, explain why his approach to soundscapes would have gotten so much more elaborate, his onstage equipment usage so much more complicated. I am not cognizant of all the factors at work in Fripp's present soundscape technique, but from what I saw on this last tour and from comments made by qothers on this list it appears to me that he has added to his hardware/software considerations by a quantum degree from his Frippertronic days or the simple foot-pedal era that preceded it. To quote him from the interview referred to above: " ... my main interest is the development of the human factor. We always think the hardware has to be developed. I think the increase in the musician's capacity for working within that fairly well-delineated system is far more interesting, finding a point of freedom within the very fixed conditions, which after all is what we do as human beings in life generally". Frippertronics leads to my second story, with its ironic tape component. I will note first that as a radio producer in the very early 70s I was using the two-machine tape-delay technique extensively, well before I had ever heard of the Eno application of this idea, possibly before he had tried it. Since radio studios generally had two reel-to-reel decks mounted side-by-side I am fairly certain I was not the first person to try it and discover it was a wonderfully easy way to create a very dense bed of sound in a very short space of time (in my case most of these beds were textured sfx for drama,promotion or conceptual applications). I pointed this out to Robert and he conceded that the technique did not necessarily originate with he and Brian. At the time of the Under Heavy Manners tour Robert was scheduled to come up to the radio station where I was employed as production manager (CHEZ 106 FM Ottawa), and I pulled the necessary strings to secure the interview. When he came in to the station instead of shuffling him into an announce booth I directed him into my control room where I sat him down at the mixing board, pinned an electret mic to each lapel, instructed him which slider controlled the mic levels and which one controlled the feedback level... then I started the tape, which of course was threaded across two machines. I started the interview by asking something about the technique itself, but I quickly shut up as he effortlessly embraced the concept and proceeded to sculpt a marvelous textured wordscape that lasted almost a quarter-hour, raising and lowering levels for dynamic effect, turning his head to position words and phrases in the stereo field. It was a fabulous piece of improv poetry and polemic, all about process, performance, mind and music.... and it WAS music... I know that at this point there are a lot of readers out there who have felt a chill of anticipation at the thought of hearing this marvelous thing, and this is where the irony comes crashing in. I knew perfectly well as I engineered this event that I was capturing a unique and extraordinary moment (and afterwards I attempted as far as I could to apologize to Robert for so presumptuously stealing this performance -- though he seemed quite pleased and amused by the whole exercise). After he had gone I selected a particularly potent sixty-second clip from the piece and passed it off to the producers of the station's entertainment program to include in their preview of that evening's Frippertronic performance (at Ottawa's National Arts Centre Studio), and then I filed the tape in what I thought to be an eminently secure location, amongst my personal tapes, in a personal locker, in my office.... And here is where cruel fate stepped in, in the person of a bizarre fluke error by a green newsroom assistant who later that day went looking for a usable tape in this most unlikely of places.... Interestingly, the next time I met Robert (with Adrian and Bill just before KC at Montreal's Spectrum) he asked about that tape. I like to think that he was kind of looking forward to hearing that particular piece again, in whatever form, maybe expecting to see it get out to the fans on some unusual compilation bootleg, a fascinating combination lecture / performance. How ironic that while hundreds of hours of unauthorized performances of limited quality have seen that distribution, this one excellent piece of spontaneity, authorized and enjoyed, should turn out to be so tragically ephemeral. I will admit to having had some rough moments bemoaning the fate of this cherished recording (and suffering guilt -- surely I could have taped it to my body, made fifty dupes, whatever...), but in the end I guess the strange lesson it brought in the wake of the debate about tape and ethics is its own reward. Surprisingly, the hapless newsie who destroyed this performance for some pathetic string of sports scores still lives.... And there is yet a glimmer of hope, a possibility that the sixty-second clip I edited for air is lost somewhere in the hundreds of hours of tapes presently filed in my basement, and may actually at some point see the light of day! Let us pray... Well now this post is far beyond the pale, lengthwise, and I won't blame you, Toby, if you just put it aside as an oddity, but I felt it necessary to get these two stories off my chest and make at last some contribution to this excellent electronic gathering, and I knew that no other audience on the globe would appreciate it like this one. I hope it won't be my last. Keep up the great Talk, thou Elephants... Jeff Green ad827 at freenet dot carleton dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 17:40:44 GMT From: mike at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Pre-LTiA Crimson masmith at Onramp dot NET (Michael A. Smith) wrote... > I'm new to Elephant Talk, but from what I've seen so far, the works before > Fripp-Bruford-Wetton-Cross-Muir are rarely mentioned, except as historical > footnotes. Is this true? That would be a shame. I tend to agree. I've liked bits of all the KC incarnations (although I've now realised the latest variety would have to be my least favourite, I have to admit) but the first three albums are tremendous statemenst of their art, if slightly dated. The only problem with them would be Sinfield's annoying lyrics and tum-te-tum-te-tum metre. One of the reasons I like both 'Lizard' and 'Islands' as much as I do is that it has enough good instrumental music, the sheer power of which makes me wonder why Fripp needed a vocalist at all. > is it common knowledge that the main theme in Devil's Triangle (In the > Wake of Posiedon) is quoted from Mars, from Holst's "The Planets"? They actually used to perform it as 'Mars', as I understand it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Dickson [Team OS/2], Black Cat Software Factory, Musselburgh, Scotland mike at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk - Fax 0131-653-6124 - Columnated Ruins Domino [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 02:30:16 +0200 From: j at vrooom dot pp dot fi (Jukka Kukkonen) Subject: MPFC flying sheep sketch In Haaden Two from Exposure Fripp samples backwards Monty Pythons Flying Circus (http://bauz,uibk,ac,at/sg/python/monty.html) saying "One thing is for sure, the sheep is not a creature of the air". The sketch is the first MPFC episode ever: > Flying Sheep >(A tourist approaches a shepherd. The sounds of sheep and the outdoors >are heard.) >Tourist: Good afternoon. >Shephrd: Eh, 'tis that. >Tourist: You here on holiday? >Shephrd: Nope, I live 'ere. >Tourist: Oh, good for you. Uh...those ARE sheep aren't they? >Shephrd: Yeh. >Tourist: Hmm, thought they were. Only, what are they doing up in the > trees? >Shephrd: A fair question and one that in recent weeks 'as been much on > my mind. It's my considered opinion that they're nestin'. >Tourist: Nesting? >Shephrd: Aye. >Tourist: Like birds? >Shephrd: Exactly. It's my belief that these sheep are laborin' under > the misapprehension that they're birds. Observe their be'avior. > Take for a start the sheeps' tendency to 'op about the field > on their 'ind legs. Now witness their attmpts to fly from > tree to tree. Notice that they do not so much fly as...plummet. > >Tourist: Yes, but why do they think they're birds? >Shephrd: Another fair question. One thing is for sure, the sheep is not > a creature of the air. They have enormous difficulty in the > comparatively simple act of perchin'. > > Trouble is, sheep are very dim. Once they get an idea in their > 'eads, there's no shiftin' it. >Tourist: But where did they get the idea? >Shephrd: From Harold. He's that most dangerous of creatures, a clever > sheep. 'e's realized that a sheep's life consists of standin' > around for a few months and then bein' eaten. And that's a > depressing prospect for an ambitious sheep. >Tourist: Well why don't just remove Harold? >Shephrd: Because of the enormous commercial possibilities if 'e succeeds. Jukka http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/vrooom/ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 04:18:34 EDT From: walkere at picard dot msoe dot edu Subject: KC in Roland Catalog After lurking for a while I guess I finally have something to share with all of you. I recently recieved 'Roland Users Group: The magazine for the electronic musician' In which there is a significant article about our favorite band. This mag is essentially a catalog but the article contains a significant amount of quotes from Adrian. I won't transcribe the whole thing here but if I get enough e-mail from people interested in reading the entire artice I'll transcribe it in its entirety for a future ET. Suffice it to say that there is a certain amount of roland promotion in the quotes they chose to include in this article but he also discusses the creative process and some other interesting insights. For example: AB:"...you now have new areas that can be touched on that really very few people have ever tried. Two drummers that play in different time signatures, two different attitudes in the bass area and two guitarists that can explore as many areasas Robert and I can. I think that the different combinations of instruments could quite possibly make this the best Crimson ever. "The creative process for King Crimson has always been very intense. We have such a high level that we're trying to achieve musically that most everything you bring is going to be wrong. And the experience itself is very taxing. I think what happened is that everyone went off and no one was quite ready to jump into the deep end of King Crimson"s pool - until recently." There are some other interesting quotes in this article but probably few suprises. Like I said, If a get enough people showing interest in reading the entire article I'll post it in a future edition of this newsletter. In the meantime, if anyone hears when tix for the Chicago show go on sale please let me know. So far, Ticketmaster doesn't seem to know anything about it. Eric Walker p.s. I'm one of the few who happen to think Lizard is one of their best... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:47:52 -0700 From: masmith at Onramp dot NET (Michael A. Smith) Subject: for Elephant Talk In the last ET, Gideon wondered about the brief clip from ItCotCK which appears at the end of the Devil's Triangle suite (on In the Wake of Poseidon). After the slow build of Merday Morn and the interlude of Hand of Sceiron, the theme is released with new urgency in Garden of Worm but ultimately falls apart. In the resulting dreamlike chaos, various tatters and fragments of sounds come to the surface; it seems fitting for that bit of chorus to appear, as an echo of things from the past. Naturally, not being Fripp, I can't answer the question of "why" it's there, but this is my thought about how it makes sense that it's there. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Craig Dickson Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #225 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:26:57 -0700 (PDT) |From: Gideon B Banner | |(2)Anyone read Eric Tamm's book on RF and KC? Is it worthwhile? (Title, I |think, is: "Robert Fripp: From Crafty Master to Crimson King".) It's good. The section on Guitar Craft is the best part of it, but the rest is quite interesting as well. |(4)I gather that Pat Mastoletto has played with XTC and Mr. Mister. Are |any of these albums worth buying? Mister Mister was a cookie-cutter pop group of the mid-80s that had a couple of hits, both of which I utterly despised. XTC is a rather quirky British pop group that has made some amazing music (particularly the albums "English Settlement", "Skylarking", and "Oranges and Lemons") and some not-so-amazing music. Pat Mastelotto played on "Oranges and Lemons" as a session drummer; he was never a member of the group. |(And would anyone know what sort of |music the Electric Light Orchestra has produced? Just spotted them today |in a store, was tempted to buy an album but my wallet, when opened, glared |back at me, empty.) You aren't familiar with ELO? They were a group of the '70s that produced mostly rather lightweight, over-arranged pop music. Imagine what the Beatles might have sounded like in their early years if every song had been arranged like "I Am the Walrus" -- that is, "I Want To Hold Your Hand" with cellos and mellotrons everywhere. I'm sure they still have their fans, but I don't think their music has aged well, particularly their late-70s disco records. |From: poeea at centum dot utulsa dot edu (Ed Poe) |Subject: the right note | |in ET #224, james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz writes: | |>I think Robert's quoted as saying something like "You can hit/play any note |>you like in King Crimson, as long as it's the right one." | |Or, as a friend of mine once put it after a gig (I was fretting about a |solo I played): "There are no wrong notes in jazz." I don't think those two statements have anything to do with each other. And I rather suspect your friend was joking! |From: david at visix dot com (David Charlap) | |If Fripp is so opposed to people recording their own |performances (as he's told his students), then why is he permitting his own |band to record the shows? You're overgeneralizing. The fact that Fripp objects to Guitar Craft students recording a concert which they were performing as part of their training is irrelevant to King Crimson recording its concerts. King Crimson is not a group of students. |As for the comments on Robert's "philosophy" or "religion" or whatever else |you want to call his belief, give it a break. If you believe what he's |saying fine. But don't try to convince me. The fact that the man is a |great musician does not make him an expert on metaphysics or anything else. As far as I know, no one has claimed that his musical brilliance is in any way a cause of, or even related to, his philosophical astuteness. It is therefore meaningless for you to make a big deal out of pointing out that the two are unrelated. The fact that the man is a great musician does not make him either an authority or an ignoramus with regard to philosophy. He happens to be both a great musician and a man with a deep interest in and considerable knowledge of philosophy, at least of the type he studied with J.G. Bennett. Craig [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:46:21 -0400 (EDT) From: terry kroetsch f Subject: crimsocovers I have been working on the ultimate Crimsocover tape (I know, why don't I get a life) and this project has become fun and frustrating. I will certainly be willing to share tape with anyone but I would like MORE before I do. I can make this a double tape with Crimso rarites/oddities tape. So Far: 1/ April Wine: 21st Century S.M. 2/ Glueleg: Red 3/ ELP: Epitaph 4/ ELP: 21st Century S.M. 5/ Mike Quatro: In the Court... 6/ Greg Lake Band: 21st Century S.M. 7/ Greg Lake Band: In the Court.... 8/ Adrian Belew: Matte Kundesi 9/ Adrian Belew: Heart Beat 10/ John Wetton: Easy Money/Starless/Book of Saturday 11/ Anekdoten: Cirkus 12/ Orchid Garden: Moonchild Expect to find soon: 1/ The Look People: 21st Century 2/ Forbidden: 21st Century 3/ Either/Orchestra: Red 4/ Al Kooper: Heartbeat 5/ Opus III: I Talk to the Wind Rumours (I would kill for these) 1/ Damn the Machine: Catfood (please, anyone have this?) 2/ Mason Lane: LTinA2 (does this exist?) 3/ Dr. Obvious: 21st Century 4/ Bi Kyo Ran: entire CD of covers (how can I get this?) 5/ Myrbian: Larks II Any thoughts or advice, additions, corrections, offerings (I will trade) will be welcome private or list e-mail. I will up date everyone as it goes. Thanks. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 14:35:32 -0600 (MDT) From: ERIC DIXON Subject: Re: Tamm's book, Jamie Muir, XTC, etc. Gideon B Banner wrote: > More questions: (I'm just stock full of them) (1) Has anyone but me > ever noticed a section on ItWoP in the Devil's Triangle - Merday Morn > progression in which a sample from ItCotCK slowly fades into and then out > of the mix. It truly confused me when I first heard it. Why would it be > in there? I think it may be in there just to add to the sense of confusion in that piece, using a piece of old material as grist for the new album's mill, or something. > (2)Anyone read Eric Tamm's book on RF and KC? Is it worthwhile? (Title, I > think, is: "Robert Fripp: From Crafty Master to Crimson King".) I'd highly recommend it. In ET's long gone, people have commented on some inaccuracies in the book, but I don't remember what they were (and the inaccuracies seemed to be somewhat inconsistent, as well). The Guitar Craft chapter was wonderful, and the chapters on Fripp's spiritual/philosophical influences were interesting, although I'm not sure how closely Fripp adheres to them. I think he found them (John Bennett, et al) useful as a starting point, but wanted to move in his own direction (which Bennett probably encouraged). > (3)What did Jamie Muir do before and after joining King Crimson? Before -- I don't remember (try the KC family tree in the Frame By Frame boxed set. After -- he joined a monastery. > And on "Starless and Bible Black" on Red, is the > non-trap drumming (temple blocks, cymbals, bells, various other percussion) > overdubbed by Bruford? It kind of sounds like Muir with his chaotic style. > He isn't credited in the album sleeve. I don't know if it's overdubbed, but it's definitely Bruford and not Muir. Muir left after only a few LTIA shows. > (4)I gather that Pat Mastoletto has played with XTC and Mr. Mister. Are > any of these albums worth buying? I don't have much XTC, but there's some good stuff. Try Oranges and Lemons. I like it. > (And would anyone know what sort of > music the Electric Light Orchestra has produced? Cheesy electronic disco pop. At least, the couple of songs I've heard fit into that category. > I am glad to see the recent publication of > "Frank Zappa: The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play" which looks to be > much better than previous Zappa writings. That book is interesting, but it attempts to explain Zappa's music through Marxist criticism (which is invalid, IMNSHO). This approach is especially puzzling, considering Zappa was a libertarian, politically. He was ridiculed by an audience in Europe once, back in the early seventies, because he wouldn't disavow capitalism. > Both Zappa and Fripp (along with > KC in general) have equally unique philosophies and methods to their music, > but neither seem to have generated scholarship to the extent that classical > (and perhaps jazz) composers have. True. But I'm not sure they'd appreciate most attempts. > On this note, can anyone direct me to > any writings by Fripp himself relating to this subject? Just about any writing by Fripp gives clues as to his philosophies. If you can get ahold of the series of articles he did for Musician magazine in the early eighties, I'd suggest them. Eric D. Dixon eric at du2 dot byu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 14:56:09 -0600 (MDT) From: ERIC DIXON Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #225 Sasha wrote: > 4) I heard a rumour that Fripp & Eno might be doing another > collabration sometime in the near future. I don't remember the exact > quote, but Fripp said something like "I will make Eno get up on stage and > play basss...". Any details? Back in spring of 1993, I read an article in Rolling Stone called "Return of the Crimson King," which was one of the first, premature, announcements of KC's continuation. Toward the end of the article, it mentioned an upcoming project with Eno, where Fripp said that people forget that they haven't really worked together for 20 years, then said something like "The carrot can actually play things now! I mean, he still has things marked 'keys to hit' and the like, but he was actually strapping on a Fender bass and rocking out!" That quote is close, but may not be completely accurate. I think the result of those sessions are on "The Essential Fripp and Eno," in Healthy Colours I-IV -- there's a very repetitive bass track that's probably Eno's Fender bass. The Healthy Colours tracks are interesting, but needless to say, I was disappointed. From the Rolling Stone article, I expected something a bit more developed. Eric D. Dixon eric at du2 dot byu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Improv, Risk, and Magic. Date: Sun, 1 Oct 95 14:16:22 PDT From: Ed Korczynski Re: Ivo Steyn's lengthy post on control and improv in KC... Wow, I entirely agree. And I couldn't have said it better! I'm a very mediocre amature musician in my early 30's who's been listening to every incarnation of the band since I first heard ITCOTCK a few years after it came out (when I was old enough to have my own stereo). Anyway, I too would love to hear more spontaneous improvisation live on stage. I'm aware that the songs may have originated, at least in part, as improvs in the studio. But it's not the same. In my experience having just seen the THRAK tour, and remembering what the Beat and TOAPP tours were like live, there is at most 5% real improv on stage. Now I'm not suggesting that it be 100%, but letting the muse speak in the moment 20 or 30% would be fantastic! Of course, this means risk. Big risk. Sometimes things just don't _jell_ and the spontoneity might come out weak or overly indulgent. BUT, and this is the biggie, much of the time the spontonteity could come out to transcend time and space and BLOW THE ROOF OFF THE MOTHER! It's quite simple actually. Without being open to the risk, the possibility of ultimate genius is closed. Fripp, and I suspect the rest of the band know this. Fripp has written of it as moments where, "You are not playing music, music is playing you." Of course almost all pop/rock contains 0% of this. The best jazz musicians move in and out of it regularly. Audiences would have to understand the process and be willing to put up with the weak parts to be there for the magic that could occur when it all comes together. These could be times where the experience in that particular place and time with that particular audience would truly be unique. In all honesty, the way the THRAK-tour show I saw went, there wasn't very much special communication between the band and the audience. The band plays its (admittedly spectacular) rehearsed songs. The audience listens. Pretty much one way communication (again, this is probably my favorite one way music happening on the planet right now, so I'm not complaining). Still, I'd be even happier if Fripp and the rest of the band _Let the Power Fall_ on control in live performances. Just some. Even 10%. Just one man's opinion, -Edo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 01 Oct 95 08:12:18 -0600 From: gastarit at comm dot net Subject: Central Park 1969 Someone from ET posted this..... > 2) Does anyone have any reviews (or dare I say recordings) of the two most > famous crimso shows ever: Aug 13th 1969, Hyde Park and July 1st, 1974 > Central Park? Info would be much appreciated. I was at the Central Park concert. I posted a blow by blow review about 6 months ago. I won't be redundant and re-review it. No tapes though. If you're interested in a review send me a private e-mail.. Glenn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 01:08:26 0500 From: tonyola Subject: (no subject) To answer a few questions from Iconoclast... <> Nope - the string sounds are definitely from a mellotron, which has a unique sound that is very difficult to match with a synthesizer - even those which contain a "mellotron" sample. <> The title is actually "Robert Fripp: From King Crimson to Guitar Craft", although I like Iconoclast's title better. I found this book excessively wordy, with Tamm wasting altogether too much space on himself and his own impressions. Tamm reads like one of those arty dweebs who take themselves and their opinions much too seriously. It should be noted that Tamm did not get any help whatsoever from Fripp - it seems that Tamm originally approached Fripp with a book idea, but Fripp turned him down. Iconoclast would be better off reading Fripp's notes from "Young Person's Guide to King Crimson", which can be downloaded from ET. <<(And would anyone know what sort of music the Electric Light Orchestra has produced? Just spotted them today in a store, was tempted to buy an album but my wallet, when opened, glared back at me, empty.)>> The original ELO incarnation (circa 1972) with Roy Wood was a spinoff from the group The Move, which, in my opinion, was one of the great lost bands of the late 60s-early 70s. The Move never achieved any commercial success in the US, so Wood and Jeff Lynne decided to disband the Move and go into "classical" rock, complete with cellos, bassoons, and French horns. The first ELO album, 'No Answer', is mildly interesting, with highlights being "10538 Overture" and "Mr. Radio", but the strings were so roughly recorded, it sounds like Wood was playing the string bass with a tree saw rather than with a bow. Wood (who was by far the most original musician in the group) left after 'No Answer' to form Wizzard (weird, but great, takeoffs on Phil Spector), and ELO quickly became a pop band with "classical" touches. Imagine Paul McCartney's worst pop songs mixed with symphonic pretensions, and you have a pretty good idea of what most of ELO's output sounds like. This was the sort of music that punks rebelled against in 1977. They were a huge smasherooni success in the mid-70s (remember the songs "Telephone Line", "Turn To Stone", and "Mr. Blue Skies"?), but were pretty much done for by the early 80s. Jeff Lynne went on to co-author and produce George Harrison's 'Cloud Nine' album, then he became one of the Traveling Wilburys. I recommend that Iconoclast not waste his (her?) money on ELO, unless he's really, really into bad 70s pop. Better to seek out some Move albums, which are finally beginning to show up on CD - I recommend 'Message From The Country' for starters. Or perhaps check out 'Wizzard's Brew' - overcooked and clunky but great fun! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:03:28 -0500 From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson) Subject: Holst, the Devil's Triangle, and Eric Tamm Someone mentioned in issue #225 the fact that the theme in "The Devil's Triangle" is from Holst's "Mars" movement of the "Planets" suite. This was perfectly obvious to me and surely is to many other listeners, especially since the Frame By Frame boxed set and the live 1969 recording of "Mars." It apparently was not clear to Eric Tamm when writing his book on Fripp, however, as he refers to "The Devil's Triangle" as having a "bolero rhythm... IN FIVE!" (I think that's just how he phrased it), being completely oblivious to the fact that while it is loosely tied to the bolero style, it is EXACTLY taken from Holst's famous work. And Tamm calls himself a musicologist! Actually, I noticed several other errors in the book, which are perfectly obvious to any well-versed Crimhead like myself. Anyone else find the others??? -- Scott T. Anderson Gustavus Adolphus College sanderso at gac dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 10:14:50 +0100 (MET) From: E dot Roos at BURO dot KUN dot NL Subject: Cadence & Cascade / Flight of the Ibis Felow ETers! In ET #224 Mulugalb@aol com (Metin) wrote: > How about this question to throw out for all the history buffs >- Cadence and Cascade appears on the Young Person's Guide as a >Fripp/Sinfield composition and on the McDonald and Giles LP >(granted with different lyrics) as a McDonald comosition... >what do you think? I think that Fripp is pulling a rip off here. If it's true what the liner notes of my expensive Japanese import CD "McDonald & Giles" say , I'd say yes to this question. The song that's referred to is called "Flight of the Ibis". The liner notes on this song say:" Words by B.P. Fallon, music by Ian McDonald. The original melody for Cadence & Cascade written in spring 1969 with new words from Beep". I am puzzeled to whom the liner notes are referring to: who is Beep? I remember that there have been earlier questions (and answeres) in ET on this issue. I think this was more than a year ago. If I remember it well, someone mentioned the "McDonald & Giles" album as "the lost King Crimson album" or "the King Crimson album Fripp never played on". And there's another point I want to raise. Does anyone ever heard the similarities between a part of the album "Septober Energy" by Centipede - released in 1971- (R. Fripp produced it) and a part of "Islands"? On the Centipede album there is, between the 4th and the 6th minute of this incredible piece of music, a female choir singing with siren-like voices. Between the 8th and the 10th minute on "Islands" (in "Sailor's tale" - very appropriate title) you can hear the very same. On "Islands" the choir is "replaced" by one female voice. But the whole atmosphere in both musical pieces is the same at that point. Listen to the "building up" of both pieces too: for instance, both have saxophones doing about the same thing. Anyone noticed these remarkable resemblances? <-- small sig. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Niko P., 2743 (AUWI)" Organization: Uni O., FB Wirtschaftswiss. Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:29:23 GMT+100 Subject: Wetton in concert Dear Crimziods, I happened to pick up an announcement which says that JOHN WETTON will appear as a support of SAGA in my home town Osnabrueck (Krautland) next month. Until now I did not figure out wether he is going give a acoustic gig or, perhabs, will be accompanied by Jobson. Since I'm not a ASIA fan and did never hear a bit of his post Crimson solo work I'm pretty anxious to see him. NIKO [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 04:33:17 -0700 From: kohern at direct dot ca (kevin patrick o'hern) Subject: Jamie Muir, XTC, etc. It sounds to me that the 'interlude' on "Dinosaur" is played on a MIDI guitar. If you listen real close (also on the organ-type sound at the beginning) you can hear the pick hitting the strings. Oh, well, just go to the show and you'l get to see for yourself. Jamie Muir, I don't know where he came from, but here's an interesting quote I found about his performance: "Jamie Muir is the wild one. He's the one who bounces rather than walks on stage with King Crimson, wears what I can only describe as fur wings over his boiler suit, leaves his percussion periodically to writhe around the stage brandishing beaters, flails his gongs with chains, has been known to run screaming through the audience during a set, and climaxes a solo by spitting blood." XTC, I didn't know that Pat Mastelotto played with XTC, which album(s)? If you like XTC, they released two E.P.'s under the name "The Dukes of the Stratosphear", "25 O'clock", and "Psionic Sunspot", 25 oclock is the better one, but mine's on vinyl, I don't know if it's on CD. O'hern P.S. From a previous edition, a fellow asked where "crimso" came from. From "International Times", letter from Rory O'Flute(anyone know who this might be?):Who wants to read about Jim Morris an his doors on all dem Bossem Tomes an dat King Crimso when ye've heard bandslike "Blast". This letter gives King Crimson their nickname, "Crimso". A must have: (probably hen's teeth by now) "The Young Person's Guide" on vinyl. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:50:54 -0400 From: RICHARD dot W dot RAPP at adn dot sprint dot com Subject: Confirmed Wetton Info on Tour According to a message from JW Management I received Sunday, The John Wetton Tour is a one man acoustic show. Material from UK, Asia, King Crimson, and his Solo LP's will be played. This response was to a letter I sent asking about the Phila Show.. I would assume it holds true for the other 5 or 6 announced dates. Rich Rapp richard dot w dot rapp at adn dot sprint dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:33:12 -0500 From: "Dr. Randal W. Giroux" Subject: Extra Promo singles of "People" In the process of sleuthing out the local rummage sales, I came across a box load of Virgin Record promo discs. Mixed in with these to my pleasant suprise, were multiple copies of the promo disc singles of 'People', off of Thrak. I picked up 8 of these discs and, since I only need one, I am willing to trade/give away seven of these discs for a similar act of kindness, or to people whose circumstances warrant the excessive desire to possess one. I am not selling these discs but I would like to direct these discs to people who could appreciate them as much as I do and hopfully in some cases aquire some additional recorded materialfrom other kind souls. The discs come in a jewel box with no cover sheet, but they do have a spine and back cover sheet (enclosed in the plastic case). The disc contains the single "People" (edit) and is 3'47 in length. The disc itself, has some interesting art, with a set of twins (female) perched on top of a rocky point, with a blue/black colouring. I tried all eight out last night and they all play fine. So, if you are interested in aquiring one of these, I will send them out to seven of the KC fans or discologists that provide the best reasons for procuring one. Gentlemen start your engines!!!!! Dr. Randal W. Giroux USDA/ARS Cereal Rust Laboratory randyg at puccini dot crl dot umn dot edu Rest of the sig. omitted to protect the innocent. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:05:18 -0600 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Right director, wrong film; Paul Bowles; & LTiA Zane writes: >Also... what ever happened to the film re-make of Godards[sic] >"Breathless" >that Fripp was gonna co-star with Deborah Harry in? The film that they were going to do was Godard's "Alphaville" in which Fripp was going to recreate the role of futuristic private eye Lemmy Caution. Although the film was never made (to my knowledge), some photos of the actors in character are available in two Blondie books: "Making Tracks" by Harry, Chris Stein and Victor Bockris and the book by Lester Bangs about Blondie (This book might simply be entitled "Blondie", but I'm not sure). James Poulakos posted: >It could be because Bowles himself is a composer....Has anyone heard his music? >I don't recall ever hearing it. Paul Bowles wrote music mainly for the theatre and ballet. All of it was wriiten over forty or so years ago before he moved from New York to Morocco. However, some selections of his music was performed on September 19 and 21 by Jonathan Sheffer and the Eos Ensemble at Alice Tully Hall at NY's Lincoln Center (I believe Bowles was in attendance). I don't know if any subsequent performances are scheduled at this time. Geoff Chester in ET #225 Commented that on the Definitive Edition of LTiA omitted the comment after the fadeout on LTiA Pt. II. However, on the copy I bought (I got them one by one as they came out--I still had some cash way back when...) the comment (I had always assumed it was Fripp) "Can I do one more immediately?", is intact. Cheers, Chris Van Valen One thing is for certain. A sheep is not a creature of the air. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 17:02:51 BST Subject: For ET From: Phil dot Kime at ed dot ac dot uk (Phil Kime) Artist: Robert Fripp Title: A Blessing of Tears Label: Discipline (gm) Cat No: DGM 9506 Format: CD Length: 52m Volume two of the Soundscapes series, recorded live. This is a very different affair to the recent _1999_ release. While the latter is dense and chromatic, this shows Fripp's more musical soundscape technique. These recent incarnations of Frippertronics are much smoother and flowing than the _Let the Power Fall_ era material with far less staccato ostinato which helps the word "ambient" fall from the mouth easily. The music is strikingly pared down compared with other recent comparable output and there is much more of an attention to melody. The overall effect is considerably less intense and less dark than _1999_. Given that the stated purpose of Frippertronics was to provide a background for improvisation, it is apparent that Fripp is refining this technique well as _A Blessing of Tears_ is eminently more suited to just this than most of his other output in the genre. In addition, this is possibly the most listenable of such albums he as ever produced. Extremely powerful and quite moving. The only downside, which is not a musical observation, is that Fripp continues to stretch the boundaries of contrived exposition in the liner notes all about his deceased mother's life. I have never been particularly annoyed by his alleged pretensions but, of late, he has become, I think, a lot more transparent in his attempt to appear enigmatic. Well crafted purility seems to flow in inerviews and contrived epigrams are the norm in liner notes and concert programs. I cannot help feeling that an acquaintance with a slightly lesser known philosophy has engendered a disproportionate amount of confidence in the man. His music continues to excel and he can still play his guitar magnificently. However, to paraphrase the late Mr Zappa, I now wish he would shut up and do so. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:14:13 -0400 From: tjb10 at cornell dot edu (Tom Barbieri) Subject: sonic b'booms > >Has anyone noticed the subsonic booms in the second half of One time on >Thrak? It starts at the end of the middle noodling section and then occurs >about once per phrase... it sounds like distant thunder - for the first few >weeks I had the album I never noticed them - I always thought that they >were passing trucks... Yes, I picked this up the first time I listened to One Time on headphones. Almost entirely inaudible through speakers, they come through loud and clear on the 'phones. They are very unusual to me in that I find them very soothing. They relaxed me so much upon first encountering that I fell asleep, only to be awakened by the tumultuous roars of the rest of the album (which was a really neat experience). By the way, midway through "Elephant Talk" on B'boom, it sounds as though one of the higher range guitars is suddenly added to the mix, as though it had been forgotten up to that point. I was curious as to who it was(I too am one of those people trying to piece together who plays what). L8r, Tom Thomas Barbieri tjb10 at cornell dot edu http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~tjb10 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Matt Walsh Subject: KC in Wilkes-Barre Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 14:53:00 PDT I just ordered tickets to KC at the FM Kirby Center in Wilkes-Barre, PA a few days ago. One small problem, though. I'm not sure if I have a ride. So I have a favor to ask of everyone. If anyone who plans on going from the Philly area (or anywhere north of Philly up to around Allentown), may be able to give 2 people a ride, please e-mail me back. I'd be willing to help pay for gas, etc. I also wouldn't mind taking the bus up to Allentown (or any stop before) if you're up there. I don't have a car at the moment and my friend isn't sure if his truck is in good enough shape to make it up there, so we're hoping someone will be able to help us here. I missed KC in Philly this summer due to my college graduation and I vowed not to miss them again! Matt Walsh mattw at smginc dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 01 Oct 95 19:18:23 EDT From: Barrie Sillars <100763 dot 1142 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Fripp Movie There has been a couple of postings mentioning a proposed movie which Fripp was to star in. This was actually a re-make of Jean-Luc Godard's 1966 film "Alphaville", not "Breatless". Both Fripp and Debbie Harry were to star. It was to be co-directed by Chris Stein (of Blondie) and New York avant-garde film maker Amos Poe. There was also talk of Nicholas Roeg being involved. I am not sure how far this project got off the ground but there was a photo of Fripp and Harry together which appeared on the front of a copy of Melody Maker. This had them both dressed as characters from the movie. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:21:11 -0400 From: bartok at fox dot nstn dot ca (- Steady Eddy -) Subject: b'boom is there someone out there who can tell me if there is a transcription of b'boom somewhere? i know i've probably asked before but, if anyone knows of any existence of this peice in notation, could you please contact me via e-mail at: bartok at fox dot nstn dot ca thanks a million, ed reifel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:49:58 +0100 From: goran dot svensson at parkmollan dot se (G\vran Svensson) Subject: The latest CDs I've just bought BBoom and of course I like it, it's great! But the thing is that we now have 3 versions of the same songs and we sure had to pay a lot for them. Who, others than Crimsonites, would accept this? What would happen if Michael Jackson throwed out CD's like that? A lot of people would have gone mad, with right! What would you like if the next CrimsonCD also would multiple and the next........ Well, i'ts our money and a lot of us just have to have all records by Crimson. Does Fripp know this? Goran Goran Svensson goran.svensson@parkmollan Tel. 040-343941 Fax 040-301214 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:15:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Beury Subject: Fripp and Gunn's hide and seek game... Hello all, In response to a Elephant-Talk posting a reader was asking about the who is who in Thrak and the Bridge between. Well my best suggestion would be get the RFSQ video live in Japan and insert it into your best surround sound theatre and enjoy. The sounds that most would expect to be Master Fripp's is really Trey but this video is a great way to tune your ears before the second wave of the Crimson tour. If you haven't seen a stick played before this is also a great intro to a truely interesting instrument. Trey Gunn plays it effortlessly throughout. It is a definate must have for the RFSQ and CGT fans as well as the New Crimson fans. The only downfall is that it isn't on Laserdisc but the sound quality is still great. Trust me. Surround sound is the way to go. So get together your friends and sit back and enjoy it. See you on the road. -Chaos "I repeat myself when I'm distressed I repeat myself when I'm distressed I repeat myself when I'm distressed I repeat ... I LIKE IT!" -Adrian Belew [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 03 Oct 95 16:34:18 EDT From: Todd Bernhardt <73364 dot 1601 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Various points in #225 A couple comments and replies: To Gideon Banner: I'm sure others will tell you this as well, but the Dinosaur "interludes" are actually Adrian playing synth guitar. That surprised me when I saw them live, because I had originally thought it was Fripp on mellotron. That *is* Bruford overdubbed on "Starless" on Red. I'm sure he'd be pleased that his percussion reminded you of Mr. Muir. I can heartily recommend Pat M.'s playing with XTC. He served as their drummer on the album "Oranges and Lemons," which is a great bit of somewhat psychedelic pop. However, I bought one of his Mr. Mister albums -- I forget the name -- and ended up selling it to a used CD shop because the music was less than compelling. Unlike XTC, which writes complex, memorable pop music, Mr. Mister was more of a "surface values" band, IMO. Nice enuf at a first listen, but not filling. To Geoff Chester: Someone ELSE has an LP of LTIA that has "Can I do one more, immediately?" on it!!! I thought I was just hearing things. I've always thought, tho, that it was Bruford asking the question because he was less than happy with his playing in the middle break (as a drummer, I'm well acquainted with always wanting to strive in the studio for the perfect take and perfect feel, even when the rest of the band was saying, "That was fine! Enough already!!"). Plus, it sounds like Bill -- and I can't imagine Jamie Muir ever wanting to do a second take! :-) Finally, for everyone bitching about the price of B'boom, why not get it from Possible Productions? I just ordered it from them because their price for the non-autographed version was $5 below what I've seen it for around here -- even with S&H you'll save a couple of bucks! (oh, and I'm not affiliated with them in any way, blah, blah, blah). Bye for now... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 22:37:13 -0400 (EDT) From: LAD9452 at ritvax dot isc dot rit dot edu Subject: Wetton in Buffalo Just read: John Wetton in Buffalo, NY on Sat. October 7 at Nietzsche's (248 Franklin Street, 716-847-1688 for Prime Seats ticket outlet). I am unable to go there that night. 1) Anyone know if he's coming to Rochester, NY, 2) Where is the rest of his tour going? 3) Is this John Wetton 'solo' or 'with a band'??? :) Lanay [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 21:02:00 +0900 From: "=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCSCxCZSEhOSgbKEI=?= " Subject: GIG REVIEW: Crimson night at Yokohama Hello folks, I'm writing my first post for ET from small island located very far east from K.C.'s mother country. Thousands people had the greatest night at Yokohama, Japan on October 1. King Crimson gigged their first night of Japan tour that is going to continue for coming two weeks. It seems a miracle finally came true for all Crimson enthusiasts of Japan. We have never seen the first team that lasted until 1974. We had a chance to see the second team 1982 (not sure), but it did not 100% satisfy us, especially older Crimson fan. I'm not sure if the second era of Crimson was well evaluated at western world. It is not in Japan. But, last Sunday, thunderous applause welcomed them and they performed real Crimson music. What is real? I guess it is something we really expected to Bob Fripp for twenty years. I will never forget the moment they played RED in perfect tune at Sunday night. The powerfulness of beating sound pulled me back to the period when I was educated by King Crimson. Twenty years ago, I felt as if everything could not stand alone without Crimson. Then I grown-up and almost forgot the feeling I had before. However, I'm now facing the same strongest sound. RED played Sunday was RED. Why such a powerful RED now? I have no answer. But, It was RED I expected and it made me feel crazy. Thank you folks for be patient with my poor English. QZB06156 at niftyserve dot or dot jp Hiroshi ROY Yashiro Kanagawa, Japan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] YE OLDE TIX SHOPPE [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: rogoff at centcon dot com (David Rogoff) Subject: 1 ticket for Los Angeles Oct 22nd for sale Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:11:44 -0700 (PDT) I've got one ticket for sale for the Oct 22nd show in Los Angeles at the House of Blues. I'm selling it for cost: $42.50. The show is general admission. I imagine that I will get many interested parties and will somehow pick one by Friday. David [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:02:13 -0700 From: Isaiah Singer Subject: 1 ticket for Marin Show I'm forced to part with one ticket for the Oct.21st show (Saturday, I believe). The seat is far right and far back -- Ithink it's row Y, but I don't remember the seat number. $32.(ticket plus tickbastard charges). If you are interested, mail me here (isinger at ocf dot berkeley dot edu) Thanks, Isaiah Singer [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:14:10 -0800 From: andrew at pixar dot com (Andrew Stanton) Subject: SELLING SF TIX / LOOKING 4 LA TIX Don't ask how I got in this situation. Here's the deal: I have two tickets to the Marin Verteran's Auditorium on Saturday, Oct. 22nd. It your lucky day, folks. They are FRONT ROW! Section: ORCHLFT, Row 1, Seats 17 & 19. I've seen where they are on the map and they are NOT on the far left, more like left off center. The tickets cost me $55 and that's what I'll sell'em for. My second dilemma is that I had to sell these tickets because I will now be in LA on that weekend. IS ANYONE SELLING TICKETS TO THE HOUSE OF BLUES PERFORMANCE ON SUNDAY NIGHT?! If anyone desiring my SF tickets can aid me in obtaining LA tickets it would greatly increase your chances of gettin' a REAL GOOD deal on the SF tickets. 'Nuff said, let the e-mail begin!!! - andrew at pixar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]