From elephant-talk at arastar dot comSat Sep 30 14:21:29 1995 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:36:24 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #225 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 225, Friday, 29 September 1995 Today's Topics: For sale RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #223 - "Several", "Groon" Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #223 ET posting RE-Lizard,etc. Wetton In Phila, Addendum II Tamm's book, Jamie Muir, XTC, etc. e-talk post the right note B'Boom prices wetton / family KC tour PG albums My Sentiments Exactly something special about Bowles and musicians Yes, Virginia, "B'Boom" *is* expensive! Wetton and Fripp Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #223 Star tickets handing all TX KC tickets Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #224 Breathless (the film) Peter Gabriel I and II Camilla's Little Secret Lizard & sonic excursions... Hello ET/Chalkhills -- the perfect combo TICKETS: (fwd) king crimson ticket info Re: Misc. KC stuff Re: "rare" exposure edition ET posting John Wetton: CD Review [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/index/topics/etopics.htm FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/elephant-talk-faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 26 Sep 1995 13:50:54 -0500 From: "Jonathan Block" Subject: For sale Selling off my Crimson collection. For a list e-mail me privately (not ET) at: jblock at gartner dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:01:31 GMT From: neputnya at fishnet dot net (G Garner) Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #223 - "Several", "Groon" Looking back at my post, I may have been a little "strong" in my opinions concerning the California Guitar Trio. Maybe someone can educate me "CLUNK!" Excuse me, yes that was just the sound of my mind snapping back into its normal "closed" position. Is there anyone else feels they are a little rigid & automatonic? If not, I will attempt to gratefully accept them with open arms, if not an open mind. On another subject, does anyone possibly possess a good 44.1 kHz 16 bit recording of "Groon"? Please email if you can help, or maybe point me in the right direction. Respectfully, [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 17:13:37 EDT From: * PF03 UNDEFINED Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #223 Hi, folks,...I have a proposal: Could we organize an ET get together for one of these NYC shows? I would love to meet as many of you as I could:-) I will be attending one of the shows, but, of course, don't know which one. I live in Brooklyn. Contact me personally[not on the list, unless Toby says different] or call me at 718-372-8556. Thanks, Michael Jeter [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:35:30 -0700 From: masmith at Onramp dot NET (Michael A. Smith) Subject: ET posting RE-Lizard,etc. In #223, Joe spoke of Lizard, talking as though many people disparaged it. He invited comments about Lizard. I'm very fond of the "pre-Larks' Tongues" releases, although it's in some ways as though it was a different band. I've liked Lizard since listening to it over 20 years ago. Sinfield's words contribute a lot, especially on Cirkus (a dreamlike, nightmarish quality, phrases which almost make sense and call up almost-coherent images) and Lizard. With the title track, I've lost any objectivity in thinking about the music; it's ingrained into me, the phrases are like familiar friends, and to me it's always worth re-hearing. I'm new to Elephant Talk, but from what I've seen so far, the works before Fripp-Bruford-Wetton-Cross-Muir are rarely mentioned, except as historical footnotes. Is this true? That would be a shame. (I AM a fan of all the KC incarnations, and saw them twice in about 1973 and was mesmerized.) By the way, is it common knowledge that the main theme in Devil's Triangle (In the Wake of Posiedon) is quoted from Mars, from Holst's "The Planets"? Brilliantly, creepily done, it might as well be called "Variations on a Theme by Gustav Holst". Michael [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mathias thallmayer Subject: Wetton In Phila, Addendum II Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 22:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Sorry to keep tacking things on, but I've heard that the Wetton show is an acoustic one. Does anyone know if the whole tour is acoustic? -- Mathias iconoclast at tarkus dot ocis dot temple dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 22:22:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Tamm's book, Jamie Muir, XTC, etc. I'm currently residing in New Haven, CT and have the ability to see any of three KC shows: Springfield, MA, New Haven, CT (Palace Theatre), and the Longacre in NYC. Any advice on which one I should go to? Someone posted that the Longacre was a small venue: is it a good one? How's the Palace Theatre in New Haven? Despite the plain truth, I still find it hard to believe that KC is playing at the House of Blues in LA. That place is tiny!! I saw Fripp (with CGT and a Japanese acoustic guitar group -- I never knew their name or their affiliation w/Fripp) there on the Soundscapes tour earlier this year, and I remember thinking that it was the perfect size place for such a show. But to have Crimson play there? They'll blow the walls down!! I sincerely envy anybody who gets to see such a show. About my confusion over Gunn's stick playing: I bought his solo album, and that sort of clears things up for me. The range of that instrument is truly amazing (despite the somewhat shabby singing on the album -- it seems to want to emulate Eno in a way, but doesn't succeed). So is that a stick solo on the Dinosaur interludes? I thought it was Fripp on the mellotron, but now I think that might not be the case. More questions: (I'm just stock full of them) (1) Has anyone but me ever noticed a section on ItWoP in the Devil's Triangle - Merday Morn progression in which a sample from ItCotCK slowly fades into and then out of the mix. It truly confused me when I first heard it. Why would it be in there? (2)Anyone read Eric Tamm's book on RF and KC? Is it worthwhile? (Title, I think, is: "Robert Fripp: From Crafty Master to Crimson King".) (3)What did Jamie Muir do before and after joining King Crimson? I absolutely love his work on LTiA -- perhaps prefer it in some ways to the current Bruford-Mastelotto combo, although they're really two entirely different forms of music. And on "Starless and Bible Black" on Red, is the non-trap drumming (temple blocks, cymbals, bells, various other percussion) overdubbed by Bruford? It kind of sounds like Muir with his chaotic style. He isn't credited in the album sleeve. (4)I gather that Pat Mastoletto has played with XTC and Mr. Mister. Are any of these albums worth buying? (And would anyone know what sort of music the Electric Light Orchestra has produced? Just spotted them today in a store, was tempted to buy an album but my wallet, when opened, glared back at me, empty.) (5)Zane posted with regards to Fripp's style in the last ET: "Technique as a conceptual framework. Structuralism. Very postmodern." This is the kind of stuff I love to hear. It seems that so little analytic work is done on modern popular music (rock, jazz, techno, electronic, etc.). A journal recently went into publication called "Journal of Popular Music Studies", which has articles on all sorts of music -- most of it's crap (e.g. an analysis of Willie Nelson's song lyrics), some is good (historical accounts of jazz, analysis of Prince as a postmodern figure). Music studies is lacking in three vital areas: (1)Purely musical analysis (of the "classical" music type); (2) Historical and individual analysis; (3)Most importantly, cultural and aesthetic studies. We have articles on Philip Glass in scholarly journals, with Eno written about in magazines like Guitar Player, although I feel that both composers have had an equally important effect on music. I am glad to see the recent publication of "Frank Zappa: The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play" which looks to be much better than previous Zappa writings. Both Zappa and Fripp (along with KC in general) have equally unique philosophies and methods to their music, but neither seem to have generated scholarship to the extent that classical (and perhaps jazz) composers have. On this note, can anyone direct me to any writings by Fripp himself relating to this subject? Sorry to take up so much space -- have been holding these opinions in for a while now -- but, look Mom, no sig! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 23:05:44 -0400 From: DouglasO at aol dot com Subject: e-talk post Greetings. I've been reading all posts to e-talk with interest. I've saved up a couple of questions/comments: 1) What's the deal w/ USA not being on CD? Did Fripp decide it wasn't worthy, or did he include the material on The Great Deceiver? I haven't splurged on that set yet, but will soon. Anyway, USA is one of my all time favorite records. I have fond memories of listening to it in awe & wonder in my room at my parent's house during high school and also scaring fellow college students by blasting it at an all-dorm party. 2) In response to Klaus de Geus' post on Sept 4, although he's not credited, I always thought the piano on Exiles sounded like Keith Tippett's style, but could it be Cross? 3) In response to Tore Johnsen's post on Sept 2, I enjoyed the info about Lizard's Beatle connection. I never thought it sounded like the Beatles (how could Fripp sound like any other Earthling?), but did you ever notice that the Fab Four + Yoko are pictured in the "I" on the cover? It may be hard to distinguish on the CD, but check out the record. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 23:12:45 -0600 From: poeea at centum dot utulsa dot edu (Ed Poe) Subject: the right note in ET #224, james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz writes: >> as if I were sending it to messir Fripp himself. Have you >>ever noticed that Robert (or Adrian, for that matter) seems to hit just >>the right note, so that the balance of your mortal self, waiting for >>that right note, hangs in the balance, until it's presence reassures >>you that you & he anticipated it correctly, together? > >I think Robert's quoted as saying something like "You can hit/play any note >you like in King Crimson, as long as it's the right one." > Or, as a friend of mine once put it after a gig (I was fretting about a solo I played): "There are no wrong notes in jazz." - e [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 23:12:48 -0600 From: poeea at centum dot utulsa dot edu (Ed Poe) Subject: B'Boom prices If somebody here found B'Boom on CD, new, for 11 bucks, I'd like to know where, and please send me a few, will you? Since I happen to work for a music retail chain, I'm well aware that the suggested price for B'Boom is $29.98 - standard for Classical 2CD sets, and common for pop/rock as well - so quit your whingeing. :-) It's probably no big secret that stores usually pay the labels exactly 1/2 of the retail price, so B'Boom will cost your store $14.99. Whatever they sell it for above that amount is markup. My store would sell it for 24.99 if we could keep it in stock. But that's another story..... Anyway, think of it this way: DGM gets $14.99 from whichever store buys it, so shop around. Fripp & Co. make the same amount of money either way. - e [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 02:11:32 -0600 (MDT) From: bmccurdy at freenet dot edmonton dot ab dot ca Subject: wetton / family According to the liner notes from "Best of Family", Wetton joined Family from Mogul Thrash in June 1971 and left in September 1972 to join King Crimson. Family put out two albums in this time, =Fearless= and =Bandstand=. He is given co-writing credits (with the group's primary writers, Roger Chapman and Charlie Whitney) on one song, "Coronation" from =Bandstand=. Cheers, Bruce [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 00:40:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Eric Sindelman Subject: KC tour Someone beg those guys to come out to the Northwest. We want to see you!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!! [ Ahem. -- Toby ] _Jonathan_ -Eugene, OR [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:15:41 -0500 From: jdehm at gold dot interlog dot com (JD Murray) Subject: PG albums Sorry John Ott, you are confusing your Gabriel albums. Gabriel I, the cover, a picture of the car in the rain, was produced by Bob Ezrin. It does have the song "Here Comes The Flood". Gabriel II was produced by Robert Fripp. That album cover has a picture of PG scratching the cover in an attempt to scratch himself off of it, or so it appears to me anyways. Regards, JD -- >><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. -Poe ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:15:37 -0500 From: jdehm at gold dot interlog dot com (JD Murray) Subject: My Sentiments Exactly In ET#223 aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) wrote: "Does anyone know why Crimson is ignoring Canada on this leg of the tour? They're certainly coming close enough to the border! Two nights in Colorado but no Toronto or Montreal dates??? Bizzzzaaarreee...." I wrote DGM at their Compuserve address to state the above. I evenq suggested that KC should try to play at Roy Thompson Hall instead of Massey Hall this time around. Roy Thompson is much better designed and if Lou Reed can play there, why not KC!? I did get a response......all they did was send me the tour schedule....no Toronto, the same as before. Some response. I wrote back thanking them for "rubbing it in" and haven't heard anything yet. Regards, JD [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 08:48:18 -0400 (EDT) From: James Poulakos Subject: something special about Bowles and musicians It could be because Bowles himself is a composer. He had pursued music composing and for a while he was Aaron Copland's protege. Has anyone heard his music? I don't recall ever hearing it. ------------------------------------------------------------------- My home page is now at http://www.gsu.edu/~engjcp/zero.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ James Poulakos [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 09:59:01 EDT From: Geoff Chester Subject: Yes, Virginia, "B'Boom" *is* expensive! In ET # 224, Steven Sullivan ranted: >Finally, the guy who found B'Boom for ELEVEN BUCKS but didn't tell us >where. AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH. My apologies to Steven and to fellow Crimsoids... I did indeed purchase a copy of "B'Boom" for $11.89 at the Waxie Maxie's in the Skyline City Mall in Bailey's Crossroads in Virginia. It seems I was the victim (albeit a happy one!) of the inattentiveness of one of the store's clerks, who had marked at least *3* copies with a bright orange "$11.89" sticker. BTW that was also the price that was scanned off the UPC code on the backside label....Maybe there is a God, after all. In retrospect I guess I shoulda scarfed up all of the copies I could find at that price, but I didn't. I sincerely hope a few dedicated Crimheads also benefited and that the store didn't realize their mistake. Yesterday I went back to the same store and found the only copy there at the "regular" price of $29.99...a decided ripoff! Oh, well...sic transit gloria and all that.... But it's still great music! TTFN, Geoff "When my ship finally comes in I'll probably be at the airport..." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 27 Sep 1995 09:22:26 -0600 From: "John Ott" Subject: Wetton and Fripp Wetton and Fripp There was a post several et's ago asking which tracks on John Wetton's "Battle lines" release did Robert Fripp play. I went home and listened carefully but could only pick out Mr. Fripp on the first two tracks. (Soundscapes on both). I highly recommend this to John Wetton fans. His voice is very strong on these tracks. Good song writing as well. I also picked up a live John Wetton cd called "Chasing the Dragon" which said on the marketing sticker: "Live versions of King Crimson, Asia and UK songs" which led me to believe it was a live compilation companion to "Kings Road". It was not. It is a live show(s) from Japan in 1994. He sings a acoustic version of "Heat of the Moment" (Just his voice with a single guitar). He also does "Starless". I got both of these at Tower. Anyway, John is in good voice these days and I wait somewhat patiently for the release of his current project with Eddie Jobson. Is Eddie playing live with him yet? I would drive to the philly show if this is so. peace John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:38:00 EST James asks: > OK, *who* is opening for Crimso on this upcoming tour?? I'd LOVE to see > the CGT w/ them. I think you're in luck. I talked to Paul of CGT at the DC soundscapes/ CGT/LGA show and asked him if they would be going to Japan and/or touring with KC for the upcoming US shows. He said yes to both. Sure hope we get reviews of those Japan shows! tj [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 11:01:36 EDT From: david at visix dot com (David Charlap) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #223 reiver phonics writes: > >The matter of taping..... if you are doing it for your own personal use >only, I tend not to have a problem with it. However, if a particular >performer (such as Fripp) makes it very clear he has a problem with it, I >will respect that. Now of course this places me in a slightly odd moral >position, because theoretically all performers have a problem with it. >Copyright law makes it that way. You misunderstand copyright law. A copyright doesn't mean the artist is required by law to have a problem with people taping stuff! It means the artist (or whoever holds the copyright - it's often the record company) has the legal right to control distribution of the material in question. The artist (or record company) may choose not to exercise that right. For instance, the Greatful Dead would encourage people to tape the shows. Would you claim that Dead albums are without copyright protection? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: dhollist at iphase dot com (David Hollister) Subject: Star tickets handing all TX KC tickets Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:13:47 -0500 (CDT) I tried TM also, but they didn't know anything about Dallas tickets. Then I had a friend tell me he saw a note on RPM records' home web page about tickets. I went there last night and I got 5th row!! The guy told me that they have not started advertising at all yet except on the web page and by word of mouth. Apparently Star tickets is handling KC tickets for all three Texas shows. For once, life is good. -- David Hollister Software Engineer dhollist at iphase dot com Interphase Corporation Dallas, TX 214-919-9303 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 11:41:58 EDT From: david at visix dot com (David Charlap) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #224 Ed Korczynski writes: > >If one accepts a teacher as THEIR teacher, then it is extremely important >to follow the instructions of the teacher. Whether or not they seem to >_make sense_ in any traditional context. If you do not follow the teacher's >teachings, then you may as well not bother following at all. Agreed. And this all makes sense, except that King Crimson records all of its own shows! If Fripp is so opposed to people recording their own performances (as he's told his students), then why is he permitting his own band to record the shows? If he isn't willing to live by the rules he gives others, then he's a hypocrite. As for the comments on Robert's "philosophy" or "religion" or whatever else you want to call his belief, give it a break. If you believe what he's saying fine. But don't try to convince me. The fact that the man is a great musician does not make him an expert on metaphysics or anything else. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Ewing Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:08:46 -0600 Subject: Breathless (the film) Zane writes: > Also....what ever happened to the film re-make of Godards "Breathless" that > Fripp was gonna co-star with Deborah Harry in? There was an American remake of "Breathless" circa 1981 starring Richard Gere and a young french actress (Valerie Kapriski?). In this version, the roles were reversed - ie, the man was the drifter and the woman was the reponsible one. The title song was a cover of Jerry Lee Lewis' classic, "Breathless", performed by X. *************************************************************************** David A. Ewing Interleaf - Boulder Lab. dewing at avalanche dot com Boulder, Colorado *************************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Ewing Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:16:47 -0600 Subject: Peter Gabriel I and II John Ott writes: > Also on the liner notes Robert speaks of the Trilogy with Peter Gabriel and > Daryl Hall. It says something like "produced and contributed to both" Yet > Peter Gabriel II has Bob Erzin listed as producer. You've confused Peter Gabriel I and II (which is understandable since they are both titled "Peter Gabriel"). Peter Gabriel I (rain-soaked car on the cover, "Solsbury Hill", "Here Comes the Flood", etc.) was produced by Bob Ezrin. Peter Gabriel II (Gabriel scratching the air on the cover, "In the Air", "Indigo", "Exposure") was produced by Robert Fripp. *************************************************************************** David A. Ewing Interleaf - Boulder Lab. dewing at avalanche dot com Boulder, Colorado *************************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: jrweinb at husc dot harvard dot edu (Justin Weinberg) Subject: Camilla's Little Secret Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:44:37 -0400 (EDT) A couple of weeks (or months) ago there were a few posts about Camilla's Little Secret, with "Bobby Wilcox" on guitar. If this wasn't a joke--I hope it's not since I have spent time looking for it--could someone let me know how to get a hold of a copy? Thanks. --- Justin Weinberg jrweinb at husc dot harvard dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 17:05:32 EDT From: Geoff Chester Subject: Lizard & sonic excursions... In ET #223 Joe Rodriguez wrote.... >Greetings Crimmers! >šI have been hassled in the past for admitting that "Lizard" is my >favorite KC album. There are many reasons for this (none of which I will >go into). However I would like to hear some of your comments on why you >do or you don't like it and the comparisons to other Crim albums. Joe, either your an old fogey like me and actually remember when "Lizard" first came out, or you've got good taste in music! For that era it was one of the most stunningly well-recorded albums, and its quality is hard to beateven today. I think it was the penultimate incarnation of the first phase of Crimso, and I still play it loud on Sunday mornings to shake up the 'hood! >šSomeone made reference to not being able to listen to a Crimson >album in a casual setting because of the wide range of volumes presented >on certain albums (ItWoP, LTiA, Lizard). I have all the definitive >editions of their CDs (not knowing that anything else existed) and wanted >to assure that person that it is the same way on these versions. I also >agree with your allusion that the King is not exactly music for a casual >setting. Exactly the effect the artists intended! This was something that was extremely hard to do given the limitations of the vinyl medium, but as I recall LTiA won some sort of award for the engineering feat of actually being able to achieve this incredible dynamic range. I still have my vinyl pressing of LTiA since it has something the DE CD doesn't...Jamie saying "Can I do one more immediately?" as the last echo of the coda from LTiA Part II fade to sonic blackness.... "Night:, her sable dome scattered with diamonds, Fused my dust from a light year..." (hey, I work in a planetarium!) TTFN Geoff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:25:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Sasha Alain Wolf Subject: Hello Hello, is there life out there? This is my first post to ET, so forgive me if I sound crude and am ignorant of "Crimson knowledge". I'm not a veteran fan, having only listened to them for a couple of years now, then again I'm only 19..... I was very excited about the new formation of KC, I saw them in LA and will be seeing them in Berkeley (Row A!!!!). I do have a few questions that maybe some people would be kind enough to answer for me: 1) What's the deal with King Crimson and New Jersey jokes? I'm totally clueless on this one, but as a native New Yorker I quite understand why someone would want to ridicule that state. 2) Does anyone have any reviews (or dare I say recordings) of the two most famous crimso shows ever: Aug 13th 1969, Hyde Park and July 1st, 1974 Central Park? Info would be much appreciated. 3) Even though Tony Levin plays bass on "Exposure", has anyone else noticed that his base stylings on "Breathless" are particulary Wettonesque? Does this have anything to do with John Wetton's contribution to the album (as mentioned in the linear notes of the album). 4) I heard a rumour that Fripp & Eno might be doing another collabration sometime in the near future. I don't remember the exact quote, but Fripp said something like "I will make Eno get up on stage and play basss...". Any details? Also, I don't think people should advertise in ET. I've seen a number of plugs for businesses and that's not right. The Net is already become way too comercial, in the spirit of Fripp let's try to keep this "pure". Thanks. - Sasha [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 27 Sep 95 16:13:34 EDT From: Todd Bernhardt <73364 dot 1601 at compuserve dot com> Subject: ET/Chalkhills -- the perfect combo Hey, Bill Leschohier! Of course I'm schizoid enuf to receive ET *and* Chalkhills. What more perfect pair than the world's greatest progressive band with XTC, the world's greatest pop band! (Actually, there is THREE in this perfect pair that I subscribe to ... I also get the Liz Phair digest ..) Speaking of ETers who also love XTC, I went to a Roches concert in the DeeCee area this weekend (fanfuckingtastic, as usual) by myself, since my wife was ill. I ended up sitting with the guy I sold her ticket to (front row, of course), along with his wife. We get to talking, he tells me he *loves* KC and reads ET, I pull out my issue of Modern Drummer with BB and PM on the cover, and off we go! (Of course, the reason we both found out about the Roches was because of the Fripp connection.) So, Jake, if you're out there and still looking for the Chalkhills address, here it is (and say hi to Tina for me): The Web site is "http://reality.sgi.com/employees/relph/chalkhills/" To subscribe, send the command "susbscribe chalkhillls email@address" in the body of a message to "chalkhills-request at mando dot engr dot sgi dot com" Sir John Relph, who ably administers the list, reminds us that the "email@address" portion is unnecessary if you subscribe with the address you use to send the command. Life is Good in the Greenhouse ... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "David LaVallee (Starwave-PC)" Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #224 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 09:30:00 PDT If you have the web, and you'd like to know about KC dates try this: http://www.ticketmaster.com/events/PERFORMANCES/KING_CRIMSON/ Some day you'll even be able to order tickets this way. We used this service to get early warning on the Seattle show and got 14th row center (awesome). [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Peter" Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 16:54:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Misc. KC stuff Hi. This is my first post in several months. Great job Toby! The solo on "Hope" is by Trey Gunn?!?!?! God, is there anything you >can't< do on a Stick? Well, that was my favorite Fripp solo, so now I guess I have to look elsewhere... I love the wacked-out one on "Blockhead," as well as the first real lead guitar part on "Swastika Girls," which comes in after about 7 minutes but is well worth the wait. After missing out on the Soundscape shows in NYC in favor of seeing Live in Hartford (forget about them, but buy stock in PJ Harvey!!!), I managed to miss out on getting good tickets for them in New Haven... If anyone out there needs to get rid of a ticket for that show, let's talk! I'm not sure where I stand regarding bootlegging. I respect Fripp's thinking, but if not for illegal recordings, I would never have heard his playing at the Kitchen in Feb. 1978 (which blows away anything on Let the Power Fall). I wasn't even a year old when Pink Floyd was touring on the Dark Side of the Moon album, and if not for illegal recordings, I'd never know what they used to sound like. I agree that listening to a tape is not nearly as exciting or fulfilling as actually being there, but, to put a spin on something Fripp said about recording music in general, if you were only four years old when your favorite guitar player set off on a revolutionary concert tour, a recording is the way to go. :) Pete [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: relph at mando dot engr dot sgi dot com (John Relph) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 14:08:27 -0700 Subject: Re: "rare" exposure edition On Sep 25, 10:58pm, JAY KRESS 202-233-9339 wrote: > > actually, i didn't say it was rare. i said track 16 was "...a > minute or two longer than the one that's on the definitive > edition..." The question was raised: is the ORIGINAL (1979) mix of _Exposure_ available on CD. The answer, as best as I can determine, is NO. The 1985 remix of the album is available on older CDs (same versions as on _Network_). The 1985 remix was also used for RF+LOG's _God Save the King_ CD and LP (a remix and compilation of _God Save the Queen_ and _The League of Gentlemen_). The Definitive Edition 1989 has a shorter version of "Water Music II". -- John -- http://reality.sgi.com/employees/relph/ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 13:14:17 BST From: isteyn at econ dot vu dot nl Subject: ET posting Forwarded to: email[toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk] cc: Comments by: Ivo Steyn@Staf@EctrieVU -------------------------- [Original Message] ------------------------- Hi, many thanks for the latest ET. I append a posting which I hope will stir up some debate... Best wishes, Ivo Steyn KC : Control vs. Improvisation Because I think you can't really judge an opinion without knowing someone about the person holding that opinion: I'm 37, became a KC convert back in November 1973, liked (but not loved) the 1981-1984 incarnation and only recently discovered the 1994-1995 incarnation. Now, everybody has his/her opinion about what it is that makes KC worth listening to. My view is that KC has produced some of the most awesome instrumentals of the past 25 years, and that they've also produced a distressingly high number of not terribly interesting songs. As far as I was concerned, SABB had only one side: that featuring `Fracture' and `Starless and Bible Black'. The other side contained some fairly wee pop songs, and some improvs that were too brief. This is basically the way I've experienced every KC album since then: `Discipline' and `Sheltering Sky' are pretty nifty intrumentals, while `Heartbeat' , `Neal, Jack and me' and the like are forgettable. Nice, competent, but forgettable. So you'll excuse me if I confine my thoughts to KC's output of instrumentals. One of the most interesting facets of the 1972-1974 incarnation was their courage to engage in wholly improvised pieces. Like all improvs, some turned out better than others, but improvs like `Starless and Bible Black' and `Asbury Park' are still amazing pieces of musical violence, even after 20+ years. KC have more or less stopped doing this since then - I don't believe the 1981-1984 incarnation ever engaged in total improvisation on stage. The other side of this particular coin is formed by KC's rigidly arranged instrumentals, pieces like `Fracture', `LTIA1/2/3', `VROOOM', etc. And here we come to what I really wanted to talk about. Even in a completely pre-determined piece like `Fracture', there is room for individual initia- tive. Bill Bruford stole my heart as a drummer by his ability to inject rhythmically daring improvisation into pieces like `Fracture' and `LTIA2'. Oddly enough, although John Wetton used to be my bass hero, his work hasn't aged well. These days, when I listen to Wetton's work in KC it strikes me how much of that churning bass is confined to the pentatonic scale; it's okay, and it's a pretty powerful pulse, but harmonically and rhythmically it really doesn't stray very far from the main line, particularly when you compare it to all that neat rhythmic stuff Bruford injects at every opportunity, not to mention Robert Fripp's inspired harmonic anarchy. Wetton really served as the `anchor' in the 1970s KC. In the 1980s KC, Adrian Belew was given almost total freedom of screech. Fripp confined himself to laying down a dense pattern that kept the pieces together. Occasionally the roles were reversed, but not often enough for my comfort at least. Bruford's work in the 1980s KC always seemed subdued to me, but some of those pieces were so difficult to play they proba- bly left little scope for improv anyway. Tony Levin always seemed overly conservative as well. Perhaps this is just me bitching about Robert Fripp's alleged control fetish. Now, in the double trio KC, Belew is happily screeching away. Bruford seems to have gained almost complete freedom with Mastelotto taking care of humdrum (hoho!) business. Tery Gunn's work often duplicates that of other band members, which is fine by me as it adds enormous depth to the sound of KC. Levin is still one extremely hot bass/stick player, but he's still too faithful to the party line for my tastes. Someone (sorry, forgot to make a note of your name) mentioned that the bit in `VROOOM VROOOM' he liked best was where Levin/Gunn seemed to be cutting loose from the fairly rigid chromatic scales for a few bars. I agree completely, and it gives you an idea of what KC would sound like if the balance between Control and Improvisation was allowed to shift a bit more in the latter's favour. I've always been a fan of (some varieties of) jazz, mainly because that music form allows players to stretch the boundaries of an arrangement by improvisation: see how far we can push this harmonic/rhythmic concept out of shape and still have something good. I have no time and little desire to start playing again (I used to play bass) but the only reason I would want to is to see what happens to, say `LTIA2' and `VROOOM' when you allow the players more freedom to wander within the harmonic/rhythmic framework. I know Tony Levin, for one, is capable of enormous inventiveness, and I'd like to hear more of it at work in KC. Of course, this may be exactly what Robert Fripp doesn't want to happen, because his views on this balance between control and improvisation are quite unlike my own. In which case I will happily shut up, and just enjoy the music KC is playing, rather than the music they might be playing. Stay well-tuned, Ivo Steyn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 12:27:48 -0500 From: eprosser at cscms1 dot attmail dot com (Prosser, Eric) Subject: John Wetton: CD Review ETer's, Found an article reviewing John Wetton's latest studio effort in the Weekend section of the Washington Post, dated Friday September 29, 1995. Thought I'd share it. Take Care All, Eric *********** WETTON LOSES "BATTLE" ON PONDEROUS TURF ************* Singer and bassist John Wetton has had a checkered career. Among other things, he was part of King Crimson's early/mid '70's incarnation (a big plus) and later a member of the supergroup Asia (a bigger minus). His current solo work falls somewhere in between, and if that sounds like faint praise, it's meant to be. His lastes studio album, "Battle Lines," is fraught with ponderous themes and sweeping rock arrangements that recall the less than glorious days of '70's progressive rock. Nearly every image looms large or extra-large. An "angel of destiny" guides Wetton on "Right Where I Wanted To Be"; on "Battles Lines," he stands on the "edge of destiny"; and on "Walking On Air," he soars heavenward, "following the light, through centuries of endless flight, the soporific sky, the moon and the stars, to Morpheus I fly." Right along with the rest of us. The good news is that Wetton's grandiose designs are sometimes anchored by catchy choruses and incorporate some interesting guitar textures contributed by former Crimson-mate Robert Fripp and Michael Landau. The album's title cut can also be heard on Wetton's current live recording, "Chasing The Dragon," along with the 1982 Asia single "Heat Of The Moment" and other hits. Recorded in Japan, Wetton is heard fronting a comparatively lean four-piece band, but John Beck's synthesizer provides the familiar orchestral shading and thrust. Not surprisingly, Wetton's song-writing collaborations with Fripp and Richard Palmer-James often shine the brightest. Mike Joyce *** To hear a free sound bite from "Battle Lines" call 202-334-9000 and press 8102 *** To hear a free sound bite from "Chasing The Dragon" call 202-334-9000 and press 8103 *** John Wetton appears Thursday (10/5/95) in Alexandria, VA at the Birchmere. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]