From elephant-talk at arastar dot comMon Sep 25 06:35:58 1995 Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 19:25:15 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #223 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 223, Sunday, 24 September 1995 Today's Topics: Was that Steve Ball Rosemont Theater (fwd) Fossil Logic ET Posting Red/B'boom Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 Poor packaging of Gold Thrack CD in Metal Box king crimson Soundscapes, Sheltering Sky, THRAK stuff, Gunn... Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 Re: B'Boom Expensive? KC in NYC Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 A rant, a review, and questions... tour tickets + taping ad nauseum Detroit Ticket Info Longacre Theatre, NYC Exposure Drumming Observations on volume/McDonald & Giles Damage Several Drumming on Fripp's "Exposure" Exposure (not always the same?) more on Soundscapes my meeting fripp Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 Raw Power B'BOOM, I Assume... Announcing: The INNERVIEWS web site! Nat'l Enquirer, BB/PM interview Why no Canadian dates? Dallas/Ft.Worth concert Three of a Perfect Pair Vid. B'Boom Rate-a-Record TICKETS LA Ticket needed ... Please King Crimson ticket needed KC TICKETS FOR SALE: Denver 10/27 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ARCHIVES: The ET archives are: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/elephant-talk-faq.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Hi everyone TICKETS/TOUR STUFF: Interest is hotting up for the 2nd leg of the '95 tour. If you want to trade/locate tickets using ET, that's fine, but could you please include 'tickets' in the subject line, so I can group these items together. BOOTLEGGING: in response to a number of requests to offline the posts on bootlegging, those recent posts I have received will appear in another special edition of ET, out in a few days. If you want to send posts on that topic, please include 'boot' in the subject line. Thanks Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:07:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Wolf Malcom Knapp Subject: Was that Steve Ball playing with Los Gauchos in NYC? Thanks, Wolf Knapp wmk5 at columbia dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: E#KIRKD at ccmail dot ceco dot com Date: Tue, 19 Sep 95 15:53:58 CST Subject: Rosemont Theater In ET #221 Frank Kikor wrote: >> 11/29/95 Rosemont (IL) Rosemont Theatre > >Whew! With all of the recent talk of a *Southern* U.S. Tour, I'm very >happy to see that KC will be back in the Chicago area again this >year....however: The Rosemont theatre (The Horizon) is a 20,000 seat >barn...you know, the kind of place that the band using the name >Genesis sells out multiple shows at. I seriously doubt that the KC >show will be held there, but wherever it is, I (& my growing army of >new Crimso converts) will be there! This is not a typo. The Rosemont "Theater" actually exists. It is not the Horizon. It is a spanking new theater that will hold about 4300. I have not been able to confirm the KC date from Horizon management who oversee bookings to both venues. The place will open this fall with Barry Manilow as the first show. It is supposed to have been designed so as to completely shield the sound of airplanes, and to have excellent accoustics. No seat will be more than 150 feet back. My only hope is that variety subscription series ticket holders don't get first dibs on KC tickets, but then again Barry Manilow and KC followers generally don't mix much do they? DanKirkd at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:14:25 +0800 From: kbibb at arastar dot com (Ken Bibb) Subject: (fwd) Fossil Logic >From WILLIAMSGV at medpo1 dot med dot yale dot edu Tue Sep 19 17:31 PDT 1995 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:06:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "GRAHAM V. WILLIAMS" Subject: Fossil Logic To: kbibb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 15 TEXT I can't believe that the double trio is coming to New Haven. It will be like seeing them again at my local town hall in Oxford (and that was during the Islands tour: Carl Palmer on drums, Greg Lake on bass and vocals, Pete Sinfield orchestrating - it was fun). I saw them down the road in New York this summer and despite listening to the albums avidly, I heard so many things I had missed. I wished I had three pairs of eyes - they ruled! What I'm really writing for is to ask if anyone has a tablature of Dinosaur - just the basic chords will do. Some crazy band I know are dying to do a cover of that song. They want to actually play it in a Natural History Museum with dinosaur exhibits. Thanks for the music, Graham, 20th century crimsoid man (203) 467 8748 williamsgv at medpo1 dot med dot yale dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Moyra Graham Subject: ET Posting Date: Tue, 19 Sep 95 21:38:05 EDT Re. Harry Brocksieck and his query about who played drums on "Exposure", specifically "Breathless" - After digging out my vinyl copy of the album I confirmed for myself that the drummers are: Phil Collins, Jerry Marotta, and Narada Michael Walden. I assume that Marotta is playing on the track "Exposure", from Gabriel's second album. On "Breathless", the gated tom sound you hear on the drum rolls suggests, to my ears, at least, that it could in fact be old Mr. Collins. If this is the case, it could well be the last decent bit of drumming he's done. Re. Ed Poe wanting a short list: 1) Larks Tongues in Aspic 2) Starless and Bible Black 3) Red Finally: Has anyone heard Trey Gun's solo album? Does anyone know if Fripp is doing any solo Frippertronic/Soundscape show in the vicinity of Toronto, Ontario? Alan Scott Beaupre c/o Moyra Graham moyrgrah at village dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:07:03 -0400 From: jdmassey at mindspring dot com (Jack Massey) Subject: Red/B'boom I'm glad someone finally mentioned "Red" from B'boom. What an aural delight to hear the current Crimson line-up playing the song with such verve! Ditto for "Lark's Tongues"! Bruford seems to have found a China cymbal to match the sound of the trash cymbal he used during the "Red" recording sessions (or did he sample it?)! I believe Bruford told Modern Drummer that the original cymbal was cracked and then became worthless after further cracking and he threw it away. It has to be one of the most distinctive cymbal sounds on record (as is Bruford's snare sound). I WANT THAT CYMBAL! Just some drum geek babble! :-) Crimson is coming to Atlanta on November 11th and I'm ecstatic! I've been waiting to see these boys since high school! Jack jdmassey at mindspring dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: pvallado at waynesworld dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Once upon a time, when my MIDI guitar controller was actually functioning, I inadvertently generated my own variation on Soundscapes. My equipment was relatively primitive, just a Yamaha FB01 synth module and a Macintosh Powerbook. The true power came from a wonderful MIDI programming toolkit known as Opcode Max. Max lets the user design custom MIDI applications by simply choosing graphical objects and connecting them together in various ways - a virtual tinker-toy set for MIDI I guess you could say. So I set up eight delay lines, one for each of the eight voices of the FB01. Delay times were to be determined by MIDI velocity multiplied by arbitrary factors. So basically, I had these eight delay lines, each pitch-shifting incoming notes by different intervals (one a major third up, another a perfect 4th down, etc.), with delay times that lengthened if I plucked harder. I also had a "recorder" object that was supposed to record and playback phrases at random but I never quite got it to work. Anyway, the end result was that after I plucked some notes on my MIDI guitar it didn't take long to build up this beautiful mass of sound; not unlike Soundscapes. Sure I tried soloing on top of this mass of sound but after a while I was content to just trying to influence the growth of those tendrils of sound with a few choice notes plucked here and there. It was as if the music, however beautiful or hideous, had taken on a life of its own, despite my proddings. Anyway, I had started this project not with the intent to imitate Mr. Fripp, but just to learn about the interactive computer music compositional process from a professor of mine who was (and probably still is) involved in making his computer sound like an equal partner in improvised music. Listen to George Lewis's _Voyager_ CD to hear what I'm talking about (if you dare ). -- Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado at waynesworld dot ucsd dot edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: pvallado at waynesworld dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Poor packaging of Gold Thrack CD in Metal Box Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:56:40 -0700 (PDT) I just wanted to say I'm disappointed with the way the gold CD was packaged in the Thrack Metal Box sold by Brockum. It was simply placed in a paper enveloped and not secured in any way so that the CD was free to take leave of its enveloped and merrily slip and slide around inside the box during transport, thus getting scratched. Fortunately my copy did not cause skipping problems in my CD player despite the scratches. I would be outraged if any of *my* CD releases were to be packaged in such a careless manner; those who would put down their hard-earned money for it would think I don't care enough about my music to ensure that it arrives in their hands in good condition. -- Paolo Valladolid [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:53:00 -0700 From: crimson3 at ix dot netcom dot com (William Van Wyck ) Subject: king crimson so here it is, as if I were sending it to messir Fripp himself. Have you ever noticed that Robert (or Adrian, for that matter) seems to hit just the right note, so that the balance of your mortal self, waiting for that right note, hangs in the balance, until it's presence reassures you that you & he anticipated it correctly, together? And then, every so often, a wrench is thrown into the works, just so that you learn not to anticipate the next note. Every sub-atomic particle of my highest state of being cries out " Thanks to King Crimson" crimson3.netcom.com [ Please send a sample of whatever you were smoking when you made that post, to me c/o ET. -- Toby ] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 00:13:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Soundscapes, Sheltering Sky, THRAK stuff, Gunn... Upon reading the last issue of ET, a bunch of questions leaped to mind: (1) Is there any direct relation between the Discipline song "The Sheltering Sky" and Paul Bowles' novel of the same name? I'm sort of familiar with Bowles -- haven't ever read the novel, though -- and it seems like the KC song sort of fits the general mood of Bowles' writing. Even so, does anyone know of a more direct link? Did Fripp go to Morocco and smoke a whole lot of hash with Bowles? (2) A few portions of THRAK continue to puzzle me completely. For example, what is that 4 second track doing on the album? (I'd imagine that's Fripp's doing -- but why?) And why the two short cloudscapes in different sections of the album? Maybe they contribute to the overall structure of the album.... Maybe Fripp demonically decided to throw them in just to make us all think he's weirder than we did previously.... Maybe they're there because of studio considerations.... Any answers? (3) As hard as I try, I can't for the life of me pick out any of Trey Gunn's parts on either THRAK or The Bridge Between. The percussion parts I can distinguish; the guitar parts I can pull apart (with difficulty -- and it surprised me how often Belew took solos in concert while RF remained in his dark cavern); but as for telling Levin's parts from Gunn's, I'm lost. Part of this is that I'm not too familiar with the sound of a stick. Even when I saw them in concert (June -- best show of my life, even better than Phish), Gunn was doing a lot of complicated stuff with his hands that I simply couldn't hear in the music (as was Levin on stick). Someone'll probably post saying I need to buy the Gunn solo album -- I know, I'll do that once I find the money. But can anyone give me advice on the sound of the stick (maybe also on general playing techniques) and on individual songs on those two albums? Sorry to take up so much space -- thought a little chat would lighten things up, what with all the taping-bootlegging-property rights accusations flying around. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: bullj1 at westatpo dot westat dot com Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 10:15:37 EDT Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 In response to the question, the members of The CGT and the Gauchos have been on numerous Guitar Craft courses. I believe Bert Lams provides a lot of the classical influence in The CGT. Joan Bull bullj1 at westat dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 10:22:53 EDT From: Geoff Chester Subject: Re: B'Boom Expensive? In ET #221 somebody made the following observation: >there seem to be quite a few complaints about B'Boom being too expensive. >I can't agree with that. At least here in Germany I got my copy for a >little more than the price of a normal single CD. (Please don't ask me >about the exact price, I have absolutely no memory for numbers - and I'm >not saying that CDs are cheap here, I think they have become more and more >expensive :-( ) And I surely don't regret buying it. I LOVE the version of >'Elephant Talk'! I just picked up "B'Boom" last night at a record store located in a shopping mall (yes, one of those high rent places...) for $11 and change. All I can say is that it's the best damn $11 and change I've spent on music in a long time. I saw several Crimso shows back in the '70's in the smoky confines of the Boston Music Hall and Orpheum Theater and they simply blew me away then (of course we were all pretty well "blown" to begin with... º-) ). Now, at the tender age of 42, I am kicking myself that I didn't drag my ol' bones down to see 'em at the Warner last June! Guess I'll hafta score some tickets for one of the Thanksgiving shows in NYC. My daughter is dying to see them too.... TTFN Geoff PS: I totalled *both* woofers playing LTIA part II off "B'Boom"! It was awesome! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Chris_Woods at kaplan dot com (Chris Woods) Subject: KC in NYC Date: 20 Sep 1995 10:44:38 GMT Organization: Kaplan Educational Centers My first post. Didn't want to say it, but I did. (A lovely pun of the "My First Sony" line of children's electronics, I think.) Anyway, for those folks inquiring about the Longacre Theatre, I would say (a) the theatre is roughly a 5-10 minute cab ride or an invigorating 30-minute walk from Penn Station (screw the subway) and (b) try calling TeleCharge @ 212.239.6200 for qticket info (as of today, there was none). Since the Longacre has undergone recent renovation and does not currently have any upcoming performances (I believe KC will be the first), there is no "working" box office-although I hope this changes once tickets go on sale. Also, any idea if the CGT will open again? Or if Los Gauchos are now part of RF's medicine show? Hope so on both accounts. Chris "Dadoo detoo, Solo? Ya krinka kresto... Yakoska!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "JAY COLLINS" <5COLLINJ at stu dot jmls dot edu> Organization: The John Marshall Law School Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:25:18 CST Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 Hi CRIMHEADS: To Kikor: The Rosemont Theatre is that new theatre that Barry Manilow will open soon. It is suppossed to be fairly small. It is the new place built NEXT to the barn. Anyway, its too bad that the show is on a Wednesday Night AND it is in the suburbs. Oh well, such is life. At least I went to the Bismark show. Thanks again for the Bruford interview, a treat for all drummers. JAY [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:59:54 -0400 (EDT) From: reiver phonics Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 There were many things in the last elephant talk I wanted to respond to, and I am trying to do it all in one post. > From: ranger at haven dot ios dot com > * What is the responsibility of the performer to himself? > * What is the responsibility of the performer to the audience? > * How to the two responsibilities co-exist? A lot of people look at these three questions very differently. My own take on it is that an artist must first and formost always be responsible to him or herself, creatively and emotionally. If this happens to bring them an audience, wonderful, if not, then they need to figure out what their own answers to these questions are. When a person starts being creative, there generally is no audience, then they may eventually acquire one. If there was no audience to be responsible to in the beginning, should the addition of an audience to the picture drastically alter what the creative person is doing? Personally, I would hope not. ** Someone else asked (sorry in cutting and pasting here, I lost it) if the CGT are classically trained. I don't know about Hideyo and Paul, but I know that Bert has classical training and once possessed a Ramirez guitar. (I have one myself, so it was a point of comiseration at the New Standard Tuning weekend). As to why they play classical pieces, I don't know where the idea for the Toccata came from, but I have heard Paul say Beethoven's Fifth came about because someone on this list misidentified the Toccata as such, and then the CGT thought, cool idea. ** The matter of taping..... if you are doing it for your own personal use only, I tend not to have a problem with it. However, if a particular performer (such as Fripp) makes it very clear he has a problem with it, I will respect that. Now of course this places me in a slightly odd moral position, because theoretically all performers have a problem with it. Copyright law makes it that way. And despite some rather cynical responses on this list towards Fripp's attitude about taping concerts, I think it is dead on accurate. As an audience member, dealing with taping clandestinely is a distraction. It also makes me less attentive because I would have the tape to rely on in the future. Some performances feel very personal, some do not, but when they do, they are exceeding special and dealing with taping is an emotional interfearance for me, both before and after. ** The Longacre theater is within walking distance from Penn station for the person that asked. ** Just wanted to say that I have really enjoyed the reviews of the Soundscapes shows. Well written with really unique observations. -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:49:59 -0400 From: groon at vt dot edu (Bill Wade) Subject: A rant, a review, and questions... Just my luck...Still no Crimson shows within a reasonable driving distance. I guess that's what I get for living in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, I just picked up John Wetton's "Battle Lines" (I know it's old news for most of you, but since it was just released here in the US...). Decent album...The best he's done since at least the first Asia album, maybe since the first UK album. Has anyone figured out which songs Fripp is on? A couple of Wetton questions: Did he record anything with Mogul Thrash or Family? I seem to recall something about a Family album ("Doll's House" or somesuch), but I can't remember. Also, what exactly was that circa-80 album "Jacknife"? I heard something about JW just being a guest, but, again, my sorry memory fails me. -Bill Wade, the only living human able to dance to "Groon" groon at vt dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:47:09 EDT Subject: tour tickets + taping ad nauseum From: Bob Ramstad first post to ET. great list. thanks Toby. i spoke to a Ticketmaster employee this morning who claimed that they were handling all the ticket sales for this tour. he had no on-sale dates for either Springfield MA or NYC. in the interest of keeping everyone informed, please post if you get an onsale date. thanks. (DGM / King Crimson Tour management folks, this is the kind of information which makes fans *really* happy. if you know and want to share, that would be excellent and avoid a lot of folks hassling Ticketmaster. a schedule of dates along with onsale information would be spectacular. yow.) some thoughts on taping: * some live acts require many repeat listenings to really "get" * sometimes a living room is a better venue than the club / theatre * some venues use lousy PA and a soundboard tape will sound better * taping archives rare moments for the future i had a longer version of each of these points, but thought i'd save some bits for someone else. -- Bob [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: malzahn at umcc dot umcc dot umich dot edu (Eric Malzahn) Subject: Detroit Ticket Info Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:30:22 -0400 (EDT) I don't know if the next edition will get out before this but... King Crimson State Theater Detroit Tuesday, November 28th ON SALE: FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 22 at 10 AM Prices: $35 - Gold Circle (up in the front) $25 - Mainfloor and Mez (maybe front of balcony too) $20 - Balcony (maybe some floor seats in here too?) And of course, there's a ticketmaster service charge. Tony, play Three of A Perfect Pair for the Detroit kids! -- Eric Malzahn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:39:24 -0400 (EDT) From: ckaefer1 at ic3 dot ithaca dot edu Subject: Longacre Theatre, NYC Hey friends... I live in Jersey, and I'm going to school in Ithaca, NY. The shows at the Longacre Theatre are happening over my t-giving break....perfect! The only problem is I don't know where the venue is or when the tix are going on sale. I did find this info out, however: Longacre Theatre -- 212-239-6200 (after calling dir. assistance) they directed my call to: Ticket Master -- 212-307-7171 (Tri-State charge orders) Anyway, I couldn't find out anything, and the rep at TM, while very nice and polite, was clueless. She told me there was no Longacre Theatre listing as of yet in the database computers. The guy at the first number told me I had to call TM for the concert info. Needless to say, I'm confused. Does anyone have new info??? Peace, Mark Mark Kaefer ckaefer1 at ic3 dot ithaca dot edu PS>>> Trey's stick playing at the beginning of S,S,E,D,D on B'Boom kicks ass. I LIKE IT! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 20 Sep 1995 14:38:09 -0600 From: "John Ott" Subject: Exposure Drumming Exposure Drumming In ET 221 several people credit Narada Michael Walden with playing on" Breathless" on "Exposure." I'm not saying that it is not so. However, there are three drummers credited on the Liner Notes. (I have the polydor lp release) Phil Collins and Jerry Marotta are the other two. My question is what is your source? Is there a track by track crediting on the Definitive Edition CD? Or have you read it in an interview somewhere? I listened to the track last night and could not decide for sure between PC and NMW, I was leaning toward PC (cymbal work sounds like him) but would not bet the farm on it! I have lots of recordings of all three drummers (PC with Genesis, Brand X,Eno,etc.; NMWwith Mahavishnu ,J Mc. and lots of jazz releases, JM with everyone), but as I am not a percussionist, I would defer to others on a judgement call. Also on the liner notes Robert speaks of the Trilogy with Peter Gabriel and Daryl Hall. It says something like "produced and contributed to both" Yet Peter Gabriel II has Bob Erzin listed as producer. Is this an editing error or was Peter Gabriel II reworked by BE. "Here comes the flood" is drastically different from the exposure track. (I like the simplier arrangement on exposure, in that the lyric and vocal stand out more and convey more emotion IMHO ). On another subject: Bitching about the price of B'Boom and having all these different versions of songs. Well, don't buy everything if you can't afford it! I got mine at tower for $29 and it was well worth the price. I like seeing a song evolve over time. "One Time" is raw on B'Boom more refined and lighter on Thrack, and the version at the Warner in DC was played with an incredibly light touch. I am an obsessive collector and like having all the "offical" releases (I don't buy or trade bootlegs out of respect for the musician's wishes). If KC releases a live record from the current tour, I would probably get that also. Unrelated to KC: I have some extra tickets to Bowie and Nine Inch Nails at Nissan Palv. (seats not lawn) on 10/6 email me directly if interested (face value + service charge, fcfs) peace John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:46:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Rodriguez Subject: Observations on volume/McDonald & Giles Greetings Crimmers! I have been hassled in the past for admitting that "Lizard" is my favorite KC album. There are many reasons for this (none of which I will go into). However I would like to hear some of your comments on why you do or you don't like it and the comparisons to other Crim albums. Someone made reference to not being able to listen to a Crimson album in a casual setting because of the wide range of volumes presented on certain albums (ItWoP, LTiA, Lizard). I have all the definitive editions of their CDs (not knowing that anything else existed) and wanted to assure that person that it is the same way on these versions. I also agree with your allusion that the King is not exactly music for a casual setting. I think it serves a great purpose to keep the volume range so far apart in that it draws the listener in, causing them to turn up the volume, and then assualts them with a barrage of crashing cymbals, drums and "thrakking" guitars. There is one part near the end of "Lizard," just after the vocals, that always scares the crap out of me -- and I know it is coming! I have listened to that album over 100 times over the six years I've had it and it never fails to startle the bejesus out of me. This is one of the many reasons why I love King Crimson! Briefly on "B'Boom" since it has been reviewed so many times I have to say that I love it, too. I would have preferred a straightforward performance of one of the shows rather than an edited concoction of the best performances. That's what separates "live" from "bootleg" IMHO. I noticed the difference in the segue between the songs B'Boom and Thrak on the bootleg CD and the album Thrak. Thrak's version has a more startling opening than the B'Boom version (which is exactly the way the concerts were). This is because there is no drums in the opening chords of the live version of those two songs. I think the drumming gives it the extra "ooomph!" (hey, maybe "ooomph!" can be another Crim title!) that makes the listener jump from his/her seat. IMHO. As far as McDonald & Giles, I found a CD copy (Japanese import) in a small record shop in Miami Beach last March. It was the only copy and I have not seen it before or since. Perhaps it is the only one in the entire U.S.! Probably not, though. For those of you itching for it but have not found it, I'll be glad to trade copies. Thraks for reading and extra special thraks to Toby for a great newsletter and an even more impressive website! -Joe "It's rumoured that there's life out there." -Bob Fripp [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:57:07 -0400 From: "Michael J. Stanek" Subject: Damage Does anyone know where I can purchase the live Sylvian/Fripp cd entitled "Damage"? Mike Stanek ab965 at dayton dot wright dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:35:17 GMT From: neputnya at fishnet dot net (G Garner) Subject: Several I've been reading (with attached bemusement) Elephant Talk for a few months now. Seems like most posters are young folks, which is quite good. I have quite fond memories from 25 years ago, sitting in a car with friends at 3 A.M. in a foggy, ghostly orchard, listening to 'Devil's Triangle' (ITWOP) and screaming in fear, certain that we had all begun our permanent descent into the depths of oblivion (fueled on by the proper herbal reinforcement, of course). Saw KC for the 1st time (not sooner due to my rural location) during the LTIA tour. You probably remember us as the wasted idiots screaming "FFFrrriiippp! FFFrrriiiiippp!". Anyway, this old Crimsoid just loves THRAK and sleeps with B'BOOM as his lullaby. One of my old pals from the orchard HATES THRAK with a passion. Sadly, his mind has gone, only able to listen to pretty stuff. Saw the lads at the Wiltern in L.A., and I was subjected to 2 hours of wonderful artistry, with several instances of pure, unadulterated mayhem (for which I live). Let me preface the following opinion with the fact that I am classically trained, write music for TV (please, no fruit pelting) and like all GOOD music from Bach to Bali Gamelan to Bob Wills to Bud Powell. I just don't get the CGT. I've seen them in a large hall, and in a room the size of my 1500 Sq ft. house. Maybe my mind is gone too, but if I close my eyes I cannot distinguish them from a quantized MIDI sequence. I don't feel any coloring, any depth, any emotion. I could almost swear they were Scientologists (no offense, just fact). There is ensemble playing and there is close order drill. I am afraid that CGT more aptly resemble the latter. Give me my Christopher Parkening and I'll shut up and go away. For everyone else's information, taping at concerts is not just illegal, it's STUPID. My brother-in-law used to tape the Dead all the time, thus authenticizing their feebleness. Who wants to listen to a less than optimal recording, possibly including the guy behind you tossing his cookies after a bong water cocktail, when superior recordings already exist? Have any of you ever heard Earthbound? Case in point. (even tho it was a remote van recording). What else. Oh yeah. ALL the KC albums are the best one (the deleted Earthbound not included) and NONE of the KC albums are the best one. GET IT? One more diatribe and I'm outa here. Toby, I agree that Mahvishu's "Inner Worlds" is a low point and yes, I don't think I'll every be "Ready to be Planetary Citizen" but there is some good stuff here and there, especially Narada's and Stu Goldberg's work. Also, the tour that happened around that time was simply stupendous. I saw them at the Shrine in LA, as an opening act for Jeff Beck during the Blow by Blow Tour (whom I saw last night at the Greek Theatre, AWESOME! HE'S STILL GOT IT!) I remember during the encore McLaughlin and Beck were jamming together, John got so blissed out he had to be helped away from the edge of the stage so he wouldn't fall off! How 'bout a Fripp encounter? Waiting for a show to start, I wandered into the Anaconda in Santa Barbara, saw a guy in a white shirt and black vest fiddling with the coffee maker. Assuming he was a waiter or something, I asked him when the show was scheduled to start. The guy turned around and it was Fripp! I was flabbergasted and he didn't know when the show started, but was concerned about how to make Sanka. I apologized for mistaking him for a bus boy, and told him that I hoped his measures all came out evenly (a dazzling music/coffee double entendre). I later suffered through the adroit metricity of the CGT and floated effortlessly in the air during the solo Frippery, careful not to become a Soundscapegoat. After the show, my wife and I left our son with his friends at the Anaconda (he was getting a ride with them) and he ended up talking with RF at great length covering many subjects. Can you believe it! Here I am a Crimsoid from the start and my 20 year old son (whom I force-fed KC at an early age, attempting to wean him from the whining of Fleetwood Mac) gets an audience with the Master! Pollution will be my Epicac. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:47:57 +1000 From: Marcel Safier Subject: Drumming on Fripp's "Exposure" Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 22:24:36 -0700 >From: woon at ix dot netcom dot com (Harry Brocksieck ) >Subject: 'Exposure' drumming > >Anybody know who plays drums on RF's "Exposure" album, especially on >the "Breathless" track? Someone told me it was Neil Peart, but i doubt >it sincerely. I love the playing on "Exposure" and the tub-thumping duties are shared by Narada Michael Walden and Jerry Marotta. Narada was the drummer who followed Billy Cobham in early Mahavishnu Orchestra. Apparently he met Robert during a support stint. He went on to do about six solo albums which are R&B tinged. I have them on vinyl but am not sure of CD availability. Two excellent albums he did are Jeff Beck's "Wired" and "Vimana" by Italian fusion band Nova in 1976 (Phil Collins played percussion on this and has cited his own enjoyment of Narada's playing). He later got into R&B production including the album containing "Freeway of Love" by Aretha Franklin. He tryed to lauch a solo career as Narada in the early 90s and had limited club scene success. He is very much a drummer's drummer and teaches other pro such as Tony Thompson (ex Chic and Bowie). Jerry is the brother of studio drummer great Rick Marotta. Jerry was of course Peter Gabriel's drummer from "PG II" to "PG IV" and "PG Live" and hence his appearance on "Exposure". I saw him in 1981 as percussionist with "Tears For Fears". I don't know what he has been doing lately. The drumming on "Breathless" is Narada. His style is unmistakable. There are few drummers capable of matching his technique and power. Terry Bozzio comes to mind as getting close. Check out Mahavishnu's "Visions of The Emerald Beyond" Marcel Safier, Brisbane, Australia. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:05:42 -0500 From: jdehm at gold dot interlog dot com (JD Murray) Subject: Exposure (not always the same?) In ET #220, Jim_Sciarra at msn dot com has pointed out that he believes there is a difference between the album "Exposure" and the CD: He believes correctly! I will endeavour to try to pinpoint the discrepancies between the album and my version of the CD as I am able. So far I have compared "Disengage". It is different on the CD. Not only does the sort of wailing, screeching guitar right near the end sound mixed down on the CD version, but the vocal by Peter Hamill is different too. On the album, Peter sings/screams, "Walking out is just another metaphor..AAAHHHHHHH" then there is the abrasive/screeching guitar and the song fades out. On the CD, Peter sings the same line but then says "disengage" after his AAHHHHH. This leads me to believe that I will find other small differences. What is left to be answered is thus: Is there a CD version that is true to the original album's mix? Is there a difference between my CD and the later released "Definitive Version" CD? I bought my CD here in Toronto but there is absolutely no mention of where it was manufactured. It is marketed by Virgin and on the inner ring of the CD itself it says that it is mastered by Nimbus. Robert!?!?!?! help?! Here are two replies I received from fellow ETers after my original post: J.D. Laub responded by telling me, "I bought my copy off a used CD database. Soon after the seller contacted me saying I had a rare copy, and asked some questions about it. Here's the mail: (The seller) asks about track 16 of Fripp's Exposure: > 1) what's the number that appears below the barcode on the back, > and any other catalog -type info you can grab (i think the e'g # > is the same) bc: 8431-780260-2 catalog: egcd 41 > 2) what's the track time of 16 as a) listed and b) your player > sees it 6:24//6:25 > 3) who manufactured it (what's the inscription around the inner > ring of the disc) "MADE BY DISCOVERY SYSTEMS - AN AMERICAN COMPANY 0F40400" > 4) if you can get a year of production, that'd be great too, but > i think it's just gonna say '85 remix, and '79 original) '79 (only - no '85). lyrics copyrighted '78." **************************************************************** Mine has a completely different bar code but the track time is different on my player than what is listed. And thanks to Kerns for writing me too. Anyways, that's it for now. I am very interested to hear from someone who has the "Definitive Version" and their take on any differences from the original album or my CD. Regards, JD -- >><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. -Poe ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:06:13 -0400 (EDT) From: James Hannigan Subject: more on Soundscapes Hello all: I attended two of the NYC Soundscapes shows, and was lucky enough to get in the front row for each. I was awed by the whole thing, but mainly I found trying to watch Fripp and analyze his every movement takes away from the effect of the music, by in a sense not allowing immersion in the sound. Closing one's eyes while listening makes an enormous difference in the listening experience; the visual aspect is a distraction, IMO. And listening to an album with headphones is *not*, I repeat not, the same as hearing it in person; not seeing it, *hearing* it. Does anyone get the feeling that he is actually holding back in playing Soundscapes? It seems to be he could really blow people off their chairs if he wished, but there is a sort of restraint involved which keeps it all flowing on an even keel. I also wonder how much of it is Fripp controlling the music, or the music controlling Fripp. Not being a guitarist, I figure it's best to forget such matters and just enjoy the music. Jim Hannigan "Words suck"- Butt-Head [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:15:09 +1000 From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) Subject: my meeting fripp last night i was at a soundscapes concert, great front row seats. i had to go out and meet my wife who was running late. she was sitting on a bench, and who should be next to her but robert fripp!! who she hadn't recognised (not a great fan). feeling nervous, i said hello. and he was very chatty. i remeber discussing ponytails with him - my hair was out - and he said he didnt think they had suited him. we also talked about a new album with toyah. anyway, we then went in to the concert. i can't really report on the music, because i then woke up. but it was a memorable meeting with a remarkable man. jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:26:41 -0800 From: blescohi at marin dot k12 dot ca dot us (Bill Lescohier) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 I heard a rumor that KC might play our local little Veterans' Theatre here in Marin County, CA.... Called the box office and obtained sixth row center seats! This after taking in one of the San Francisco shows, and finding B'Boom at the local Tower... Life is GOOD! -Bill P.S. Any other ET/Chalkhills (XTC) schizoids? I find both lists extremely well done. Thanks, Toby!! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:32:41 -0600 (CST) From: Z4K42 at ttacs dot ttu dot edu Subject: Raw Power I recently had heard about the Trey Gunn album Raw Power. I looked back throught the archives and found that it came out in 92 on Guitar Craft Services. So, is this album still available and still in its tape only format. Are there songs on it that were also released on 1000 years? If this is still available, are the other two GC tape only releases still available? And finally, is there an address out there somewhere to contact CGS by? Thank you, Scott [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:25:34 -0700 From: edumark at ix dot netcom dot com (chris hoard ) Subject: B'BOOM, I Assume... Greetings fellow global proggie lurkers... I've had several weeks to take in the new double live "Official Bootleg." There is certainly much to be said for something like this being "official" in terms of recording quality. For any dedicated fan, or student of the avante-garde in music, this album is a MUST, in my (humble) opinion... The recorded version of "Talking Drum" is worth the entire $25 to me. Here's an example of Fripp suddenly taking over, sending the band into a cosmic frenzy, straight through the roof, and out towards some outer, mysterious moon, Charon... Asside from this, any of you who experienced the recent tour will want to pick up this set four hours of pleasurable comparison with what memory permits... Both "Lark's Tongue" and "Red" are quite different in texture than any version I've heard previously recorded--and while I prefer overall version's of the 70s material released on "The Great Deceiver," B'Boom stands as the ultimate live showcase for Belew. Except for a few notable passages, I have difficulty discerning where Trey fits into the mix--yet the overall force and unity of the music never disappoints. There isn't a track not worthy of inclusion--even the two versions of "Thrak" - better than the previous studio versions, I think. In the annals of bass-thumping, very little compares to Tony's wall of bottom on "Sleepless," -- something unfortunately dropped from the tour set I saw... These are but whimsical nits... Now, where's that boxed set of live stuff from the Greg Lake days??? As Ever/The Hoardman. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Announcing: The INNERVIEWS web site! Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 18:34:39 EDT ****ANNOUNCING AN EXCITING NEW WEBSITE**** INNERVIEWS A collection of sonic reflections http://www.carleton.ca/~aprasad/ Innerviews is a website devoted to exclusive and in-depth interviews with some of today's most interesting and innovative musicians. Some of the artists you'll find on Innerviews include: Tori Amos Animal Logic Laurie Anderson Adrian Belew Bill Bruford Camel Dave Cousins Geoff Downes Trey Gunn Steve Hackett Happy The Man Michael Hedges Deborah Holland Allan Holdsworth King Crimson Leo Kottke Manteca Michael Manring Marillion Loreena McKennitt Pat Metheny Steve Morse Outback Spirit of the West Strawbs Tempest Timbuk3 Richard Thompson John Wetton Kit Watkins And there are many, many more to come. Again, that's INNERVIEWS at: http://www.carleton.ca/~aprasad/ This website is Netscape 1.1N enhanced. See you there! ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Anil Prasad aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 22 Sep 95 10:24:38 EDT From: Todd Bernhardt <73364 dot 1601 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Nat'l Enquirer, BB/PM interview Hey, did everyone see that Tony Levin made the cover of "The National Enquirer"? TOTALLY COOL !!! Hey, wait a minute ... it's Burt Reynolds without his wig! Argh! (hey, maybe if we got rat-eating butthead G. Gordon Liddy to shave his head to join Burt, Tony and bro Pete, we could have a really cool barbershop quartet! |-O ) On a more serious note, our fave drummers -- BB and PM, natch -- are the subjects of the cover story in the most recent "Modern Drummer" magazine. I just got mine in the mail yesterday, so it should be on newstands soon. Great interviews, plus diagrams of the setup of their respective kits, a list of the albums they're most proud of and list of influential albums, and some notations of exercises and patterns from THRAK. Check it out. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:03:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Damon C Capehart Subject: Dallas/Ft.Worth concert For those of you who are in the Dallas/Ft.Worth metroplex, this is important... otherwise, I apologize for the waste of your time... King Crimson tickets for Will Rogers Auditorium in Ft. Worth Oct. 31 are in fact on sale, but they are being sold ONLY at R.P.M. Records in Dallas (actually in Mesquite) and one other place in Ft. Worth (probably the venue itself). The cost is $26 each, cash only for all tickets... I got 7th row center! :) :) I actually haven't seen the event advertised anywhere else in the metroplex, so I thought I might do some myself. If you have any questions about where RPM Records is specifically, please e-mail me. Damon Capehart | "I miss you, but I haven't met you yet." -- Bjork dcapehar at utdallas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:50:07 -0400 From: jmc at sdr dot utias dot utoronto dot ca (James MacKenzie Crawford) Subject: Three of a Perfect Pair Vid. Hi ETers, Does anyone know a good source for the VHS version of this video which is cheaper than the $81.90 (US) they want at CDNow? It's too bad Mark and company at Possible Productions haven't picked this up as a back catalog item. Cheers, james m crawford (no .sig anymore!) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:23:44 -0400 From: Khosatral at aol dot com Subject: B'Boom Rate-a-Record It's got a twisted beat beat and I can't dance to it, Dick. In fact it kinda scares me. There's more than a few revelations here. For one, "One Time" really seems to have more drama and tension. In fact, I prefer all the THRAK material on B'Boom to THRAK on THRAK. The inclusion of "Heartbeat" is bittersweet. It wasn't included in the live set I saw, so its great to hear this band do it. But it comes across a little tired in spots. "Sleepless" is compelling enuf to impart hope it will be part of the set on the upcoming leg. The guitar work on "Talking Drum/Larks Tongue" just transfixes me, but is weighed against the shortcomings of the recording medium. DAT just crushes what should be big flat bass blasts in these numbers. Now I know exactly why everyone records bass tracks analog. Makes you wonder what Robert has planned for all that DAT he compiled on the first leg. Rating: Left Brain--95 Right Brain--78 Total--86.5 It's time for the spotlight dance........ Kho [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Why no Canadian dates? Does anyone know why Crimson is ignoring Canada on this leg of the tour? They're certainly coming close enough to the border! Two nights in Colorado but no Toronto or Montreal dates??? Bizzzzaaarreee.... ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Anil Prasad aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Check out INNERVIEWS: A collection of sonic reflections featuring in-depth interviews with some of the world's most interesting and innovative musicians. http://www.carleton.ca/~aprasad ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:40:15 -0700 From: gviggers at ix dot netcom dot com (Gary S Viggers ) Subject: LA Ticket needed ... Please Once again I have missed a deadline. The House of Blues KC show sold out a few days ago, before I could order tickets. Does anyone in LA have an extra ticket? Please email me or call me if you would like to either sell me your extra ticket, or sell it to me and then go to the show together. Thanks Gary Viggers 818 702 9862 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 21:50:48 -0400 From: DnTMan at aol dot com Subject: TICKETS: King Crimson ticket needed Hello: If anyone has an extra ticket for the Oct. 22nd House of Blues gig please let me know. I'm in need...please email me direct. Thanks! Tom Shannon [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:31:56 -0600 (MDT) From: DRODDY J DARRELL Subject: KC TICKETS FOR SALE: Denver 10/27 I have four tickets to the King Crimson show at the Paramount Theatre in Denver on Friday, October 27 with which I must part. They are on the floor, Right Orchestra, Row T, Seats 7-10 in front of the loge overhang; not bad. I am only asking the face value ($25 each). I would prefer to sell them as a group of four but I am open to selling two at a time. Contact me at for arrangements. Thanks for the space. jd ===================================== * J. Darrell Droddy * * 4806 MacIntosh Place * * Boulder, CO 80301-2214 * * (303)443-6454 (voice) * * droddy at spot dot colorado dot edu (e-mail) * ===================================== [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]