From elephant-talk at arastar dot comWed Sep 20 07:27:20 1995 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:18:17 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #221 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 221, Tuesday, 19 September 1995 Today's Topics: The KC dates (official) More on bootlegging Bruford interview Quickie Soundscapes review: VROOOM unplugged, Fripp & 4'33",etc. signatures --I still don't like 'em Re: Fall Tour Dates My encounter with Robert Fripp taping KC in Berkeley Soloist In Hope solo on 'Hope' Longacre Theater The Lady? No, the Tiger! - Toyah at the Marquee 10/9/95 concerts John Wetton Re:ET # 218--Stephen (Crimson) King CGT:Thumbs UP! Soundscapes:Thumbs DOWN! Bonus Material on LOFCG Latest VIDEO W/ G.LAKE Commentary on Soundscaping Concert taping and sundries sheet music bootlegs Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #219 Lizard and LTIA mixes King Crimson on UK Television possible new Bruford Jazz effort REVIEW : B'boom Allentown 9.1.95; New York 9.8&9.95 big files KC dates pleasant accident, attn: Bill Merrill B'Boom expensive? Hammill live! hidden mumbling Texas Tour Dates Concerts in Japan KC Tour in Japan McDonald & Giles/Sinfield CD's Re: Elephant Talk #218 Stephen King Sales of Thrak Celebrity sightings B'Boom Review soundscapes, b'boom KC Winter '95 Tour Re: Taping diatribe... Great Deceiver packaging RE: The Exposure Confusion more on exposure Porcupine Tree UK Tour RF,CGT,LG NYC 9/8, LCG,BoT B'Boom, RFSQ, and Sticks Appearances can be deceiving Drumming on "Breathless" Re: Drumming on "Breathless" IBE review Church windows on Intergalactic Boogie Express REVIEW: Soundscapes in NYC Lyric change in B'Boom version of "People" (probably trivial) B'Boom Name Patrick Moraz at Notre Dame re:exposure drumming Tickets For Longacre Theater [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ARCHIVES: The ET archives are: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/elephant-talk-faq.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com From: [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 13 Sep 95 17:54:16 EDT From: Discipline Global Mobile <73064 dot 1470 at compuserve dot com> Subject: KC dates King Crimson US tour 1995 2nd leg 21 Oct Marins Veterans Auditorium San Rafael 22 House of Blues Los Angeles 23 Symphony Hall Phoenix 25 Civic Centre Theater El Paso 27 Paramount Theatre Denver 28 Paramount Theatre Denver 29 Pikes Peak Center Colorado Springs 31 Will Rogers Auditorium Dallas 1 Nov Music Hall Austin 2 Music Hall Houston 4 House of Blues New Orleans 5 House of Blues New Orleans 7 Sunrise Music Theater Miami 8 Mahaffey Theater St.Petersburg 9 Tupperware Centre Orlando 11 Roxy Theater Atlanta 12 Roxy Theater Atlanta 14 Conan O'Brien TV show 15 Kirby Perf Arts Center Wilkes Barre PA 16 Auditorium Theater Rochester 17 Paramount Theater Springfield 18 Palace Theater New Haven 20 Longacre Theater New York 21 Longacre Theater New York 22 Longacre Theater New York 24 Longacre Theater New York 25 Longacre Theater New York 27 Palace Theater Columbus OH 28 State Theater Detroit 29 Rosemont Theater Chicago [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Crimson's 1995 Tour Management KC are playing a week during Thanksgiving at The LongAcre Theatre in New york. It holds 1000 people and is a very intimate, newly restored theatre. It should be just amazing!!! Only a few bands have ever done this, so tell everyone to look out for tickets. Also a CD5 is being released to co-incide with the tour that will have a special never released piece. It is Robert playing Silent Night....it is a piece that was released as a limited Christmas card some years ago. There are also some great live versions of Walking On Air, and Heartbeat!!!! See ya...........Cath Masters [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "DAVID LYNCH" Organization: University of Dayton Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 13:34:11 EST Subject: More on bootlegging Looking over the poll in the second-to-last issue of ET, I found it to be biased against tape traders. I'm tempted to write an equally biased poll in the other direction, but instead I'm going to attempt an impartial poll. First off, many are Y/N questions, but I encourage you to explain your vote if you feel you need to. 1. Do you support the right of artists to derive profits from live concert performances? 2. Do you think it is permissible to make a profit off live recordings of other artists which the artists make no profit from? 3. Do you support the exchange of unofficial live concert recordings for money? 4. Do you support the free exchange of unofficial live concert recordings? 5. Do you think that the existence of unofficial live recordings will hurt sales of official live recordings? 6. Do you think it hurts the integrity of the artist to have recordings the performer feels are of inferior quality available? 7. Do you think that free exchange of live recordings is an outgrowth of respect and enthusiasm for the work done by the band? 8. Do you think that unofficial CDs are comparable to official recordings? If so, in which ways? How about unofficial freely traded tapes? 9. Do you agree with Robert Fripp's reasoning on the recording of live performances, i.e. that a musical concert is a special communion between performer and audience, and that recording concerts is a violation of that relationship, akin to surrepetitiously videotaping sex? 10. Should local law on the making, exchange, and selling of unofficial live recordings be respected regardless of any of the above? Note there are no questions on whether ET should be used to set up trades- it's Toby's list, it's for him to decide. A question on recording concerts has been added to ask about the rationale behind the law, and other questions regarding common arguments for or against unofficial live recordings have been added. I don't intend this to be the be all and end all concerning this issue; I've just tried to sum up the major points. [ FYI, the results of the poll will be published in the next ET, which will be a Special Edition devoted to the subject. -- Toby ] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 08 Sep 95 13:31:36 EDT From: Todd Bernhardt <73364 dot 1601 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Bruford interview Just read the BB interview conducted by Mike Tiano ... all I can say is, Thank God for Bill Bruford. As if his unbelievable playing weren't enuf to make him my favorite drummer (and the reason *I* became one) during the past 20+ years, his humor and perspective are amazing and right on the mark. My only regret is that Mike T. didn't ask him about future plans for Earthworks ... Todd B. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 15:02:50 EDT From: Broken Subject: Quickie Soundscapes review: VROOOM unplugged, Fripp & 4'33",etc. Hate to make such a hasty post but I just had to say something... On Sept. 5th the Soundscapes tour stopped at Club Bene in Sayreville, NJ. Some highlights: Robert Fripp treated the crowd to an impromptu performance of John Cage's 4'33" (actually it might've been longer than that) when his MIDI rig completely failed to make any noise at all; The crowd was treated to 'unplugged' performances of THRAK and VROOOM when Fripp, the CGT, and Los Gauchos came out to play among the audience. I'll post a more detailed review + an interview with Paul Richards ASAP. Oh, check out my home page for a rough version of my King Crimson article w/ a very abbreviated interview with Trey Gunn. I'll get the finished draft (you can tell me which one is better) and the full interview w/Trey on there at a later date. Thanks! Howie http://vger.rutgers.edu/~hmshih [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:11:40 -0700 From: Nadav Caine Subject: signatures --I still don't like 'em There was, among others, a very articulate defense of signatures in the last ET, which argued that a 6 line signature was quite reasonable. Considering that I'd guess 50 posts to an ET are not unusual, that's 300 lines of garbage (pardon me) in my mailbox. I guess being proud of ASCII art is like being proud of watching cartoons as an adult. Another articulate defense (and I'm not being facetious) argued that it's a welcome infusion of personality. I disagree. If you don't show your personality in your discussions of music as blessed as KC, then a few dashes and slashes, and multiple quotes from an Eno song and such do not impress me. In fact, I am often disappointed after reading an interesting comment by what I take to be juvenalia in the sig. Call me a snob --I just haven't had my coffee yet this morning. And like I've said before, if the traffic on ET lightened up (which I hope it DOESN'T because that would mean touring and such are not happening) I wouldn't mind the sig's so much. Sorry, Nadav [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 15:33:18 -0500 From: kikor at interaccess dot com (kikor) Subject: Re: Fall Tour Dates > 11/29/95 Rosemont (IL) Rosemont Theatre Whew! With all of the recent talk of a *Southern* U.S. Tour, I'm very happy to see that KC will be back in the Chicago area again this year....however: The Rosemont theatre (The Horizon) is a 20,000 seat barn...you know, the kind of place that the band using the name Genesis sells out multiple shows at. I seriously doubt that the KC show will be held there, but wherever it is, I (& my growing army of new Crimso converts) will be there! Thanks for the info. & thanks to you Toby for the time that you must have to invest in order to keep ET flowing. -frank [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:37:49 -0400 From: ali00mhs at unccvm dot uncc dot edu (Mark Sullivan) Subject: My encounter with Robert Fripp I've enjoyed reading the anecdotes about personal encounters with Robert Fripp, so I thought I'd tell you mine. During the Frippertronics tour I was living in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I'd been doing live performances with tape-delay since 1976, and of course the Fripp & Eno records were one of my big influences -- so I was really excited about hearing Frippertronics live, and hoped I'd have an opportunity to meet the man himself. He performed at a nightclub called Second Chance on June 12, 1979 (thanks to the liner notes from LET THE POWER FALL for the memory aid!). There was just one show, in the late afternoon; afterwards he would be signing autographs at Schoolkids Records, across the street from Second Chance. The music was stunning; certainly none of the recordings have had the power of the live performance I saw. After the performance some attendees tried to get Robert to sign autographs before leaving the club. I overheard him politely refuse, saying that this place was for music only, but he'd be happy to oblige them with autographs across the street at the record store. I had brought a cassette of my music to give to him, so I got in line with the other autograph seekers. When he looked up at me to sign something, I told him that I didn't have anything for him to sign -- I'd been enjoying his music for years, and wanted him to hear some of mine. He accepted my tape and thanked me. It took hours to come down from the adrenalin it took to do this! Not asking for an autograph was only a gesture, to try to make the interaction more musician-to-musician, rather than musician-to-fan. Looking back on it, it still strikes me as a gesture that Robert might have appreciated. Mark Sullivan Charlotte, NC [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 9 Sep 95 11:38 EST From: chrisd at iquest dot net (Chris Dickey) Subject: taping If Robert Fripp-ocrite thinks a live performance is so sacred that it should not be taped why is he so quick to prostitute it for money? He has said so himself that he has a huge collection of live performances. And Bill Bruford states that EVERYTHING is recorded. Fripp has released more live recordings than anyone other than Zappa or the Dead. And while we are on the subject, how DOES he justify charging $30 for a 2CD set with virtually NO production cost. Christ, it is nothing but an edited and EQ'ed board tape of a moment that was supposedly very private and personal. I guess for $30 a pop it isn't that sacred to him. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 14:54:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Russell Fischer Subject: KC in Berkeley Immediately after seeing the KC tour dates (thanks, Toby!), I called the Zellerbach ticket office for confirmation. The person I spoke with Friday afternoon (9/8) confirmed only the second date (Friday, October 20), for which tickets will go on sale Sunday, Sept. 17. Leaving no stone unturned (and wanting to know ticket prices), I called back Saturday afternoon and spoke with another operator who confirmed _both_ dates and informed me the tickets (all reserved) would be $27.50 (UC Berkeley students get tickets for $25.00 and must show a current student ID at the door). Anyone wanting to do an independent confirmation of my findings can call the Zellerbach ticket office at (510)642-9988 or (510)642-1068. Best of luck! Russ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 18:45:02 -0400 From: epiphany at eznet dot net Subject: Soloist In Hope Orn Orrason asked who the soloist was in the RFSQ song "Hope"; that would be Trey Gunn on the stick, not guitar at all. I agree that this song is beautiful and the solo is excellent. I highly recommend the version on the RFSQ video tape, which is how I'm sure it's Gunn. (That tape is on sale through Possible Productions and is thoroughly great.) That Gunn's part here was mistaken for guitar goes to illustrate why many people don't realize how significant his contributions to King Crimson are. Gunn's parts are usually plainly audible in the mix, but in many songs his playing sounds very much like guitar. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Markus Reuter Subject: solo on 'Hope' Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 15:17:56 MESZ Hi! The 'guitar' solo on 'Hope' was played by Trey Gunn (on The Stick). The few e-bow lines were played by Paul Richards, indeed. Robert Fripp is playing the arpeggio part on the electric guitar throughout the piece. Just to let you know! Markus [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: rhea at sas dot upenn dot edu (Rhea A Frankel) Subject: Longacre Theater Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 17:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Hi. This is my very first posting to Elephant Talk. I've been listening to Crimson for two years now, and I couldn't imagine life without them. I'm a Philadelphian who doesn't drive, and I'm trying to decide if I should spend my Thanksgiving break going to multiple KC shows. Could someone please tell me if the Longacre, where they're playing in New York, is accessible (ie close to Penn Station) or if anyone from Philly is driving up and wouldn't mind giving a desperate fan a lift? I saw them twice in June and it wasn't enough! Thanks a lot. Rhea Frankel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Brian Thomson Subject: The Lady? No, the Tiger! - Toyah at the Marquee 10/9/95 Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 09:31:00 PDT After the marriage, The Lady Or The Tiger?, BBC Wildlife narrations, Sunday All Over The World, and reports of her "trancey" gigs last year, I was seriously wondering what Toyah was _doing_ at the Marquee. The evening started with two opening "bands" who played guitar and sang along to backing tapes in awkward goth/indie/metal fashion. (One was named "Manuskript" the other is forgotten) The Marquee is notorious in London for its "brute force and ignorance" PA system (which is really saying something), but the first band had their own sound guy who got it pretty well balanced. The second was mixed by a Marquee employee, who was clearly suffering from overexposure to the very frequencies she reached over and boosted on the graphic EQ. The earplugs soon went in, but the rest of the audience were oblivious. Toyah had her own sound guy, who had things right by the third song. The Marquee is moving, again, in a few months time, and I hope they do something about the sound system and the people behind it when they do. Watching the crowd was more fun - a real mixture of punks, goths, and civilised-looking geeks like yours truly. Quite a few pints of overpriced lager had gone down, a few were clearly pushing the envelope on recreational chemicals. Just another Sunday All Over The Marquee, I suppose. The overall tone was dark, slightly gothic, but fun, no danger of knife-fights in the corner. I don't know what I was expecting by the time Toyah's band strutted on stage. Well! These guys clearly weren't chosen for their neo-punk looks - guitarist & keyboardist looking like rockers with leather and long hair, a more "mature", normal-looking drummer, but the bassist in particular looked disastrously out of place in baseball cap (the right way round), white shirt, blue jeans, and white Warwick Fortress 5-string fretless. He soon proved to be the kind of bassist musos love but audiences don't understand; too concerned with his tone and technique to make more than the most cursory concessions to image. Once the mixing desk was sorted, he rang out clear and solid as Big Ben, just a good bit lower. (You can tell I'm a bassist, can't you?) Nobody was really prepared for the bundle of dynamite that bounced out on the little stage with the band. Toyah grabbed the audience by the scruff of the neck and shook us until we were exhausted. Dressed completely in black, a kind of lycra bodysuit with skirt, boots, leg-warmers, leather arm-straps, and a cut-off James Dean t-shirt! "Some kind of dead hero?" It was LOUD, thrashy, and exhausting just watching her. She just kept going, despite telling us; "I'm absolutely FUCKED! Six gigs in three days! And I'm too OLD!" (Cue big 'what, naww' from the crowd) "I need some monkey glands! No, that's not politically correct, I need a young man's glands!" Liar! Wild, stark raving bonkers dancing, jumping on the monitors, spinning in circles and getting tangled up in the mike stand, til she had to cry "Someone unhook this mike cable! Please! I'm only a woman!", there was no stopping her. They played a good selection of old numbers, including "Obsolete", "Jungles of Jupiter", Moonlight Dancing", and of course "I Want To be Free", all of which went down like a pint on a hot day. Once the crowd got over their shell-shock, they were all over the place as well, some guys had to take their shirts off, that's how hot it got. Two guys grabbed hold of her arm and didn't want to let go, but eventually she ripped free without missing a note. They played the new "Love Is Surrender" - "from a new film, this is the first time we've done it live", she said. I wonder what film? The best part? The VOICE! She took a couple of songs to warm up, but after that she was belting them out like it was 1979 all over again. Awe-inspiring power. After the encore some drunk idiot clambered on stage, but she just said "Piss Off" and pushed him back into the crowd! In short? Toyah, is back, and she's MAD! If she comes your way, just go, OK? "So what if I dye my hair? I've still got a brain up there!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:35:03 -0600 (MDT) From: M dot Kusmic at PZ-FMW dot KUN dot NL Subject: concerts John Wetton Hi, I'm not on this mailing list yet, but I have big news for Wetton fans: You may know he will go on tour with Saga in the Netherlands on the 23rd, 24th and 25th of October. But he will also play on the 22nd of October in 'de Pul' in Uden, the Netherlands, together with the Belgian band Now, who will also accompany him. For the ones among you who are able to: BE THERE!! Milly Kusmic. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:12:21 -0600 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Re:ET # 218--Stephen (Crimson) King In was "Stephen King: The Art of Darkness" edited by Douglas E. Winter, the quotation appeared on the page after the dedication page, alone on the page: "it's alright to feel a little fear" Adrian Belew/King Crimson Cheers, Chris Van Valen Don't fight it, it's over your head. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: (Lynch,Ken) Subject: CGT:Thumbs UP! Soundscapes:Thumbs DOWN! Date: Mon Sep 11 18:02:24 1995 I saw the Fripp's Soundscapes, California Guitar Trio, and Los Gauchos Alemanes concert on Sept.2, 1995 at Muhlenberg College, Allentown, PA. The CGT and Los Gauchos Alemanes were excellent. I have been under the impression that the members of CGT were students of Fripp. I also assumed Los Gauchos was the same from their guitar technique. However, when I told my friend this it occurred to me that I do not know where I got this information, and if it is even true. Can someone clear this up for me? The question my friend asked which brought this about was: Are the members of the CGT classically trained? This is a very good question. I can clearly see Fripp's influence on the CGT, but why do they also play classical pieces? I have never known Fripp do any classical pieces. Could this be because they were classically trained? I was not impressed by Fripp's Soundscapes, but at least I could see him this time. For those of you who haven't read a review of Soundscapes, I will briefly summarize what they are. Using loops and lots of effects, Fripp slowly creates an ambient wash of sounds making good use of the two stereo channels. To listen to this is mostly relaxing, but, as with most Fripp stuff, it has some dark undertones and tension. Aside from these leanings toward the darker side, it could be considered New Age music (Yes, I am not lumping it into this category for a lack of any other place, I mean that in a bad way). To watch a soundscape being created is interesting for the first time, but that is it. I'm sure a lot of skill goes into sampling at the right time, and understanding the equipment very well, so that after a couple minutes you're not left with a total cacophony. In the average creation of a soundscape Fripp only hit 20-30 notes/cords on the guitar, and spent most of the time playing with the effect boxes. In fact some time he spent doing nothing at all, just letting the loop repeat for a minute. This is not very stimulating to watch, but that's OK, I wasn't expecting visual entertainment. The soundscapes themselves would be more appreciated playing on a stereo where the listener could stretch out comfortably on a couch, close his eyes, and relax. The soundscapes would provide a great base for a solo, especially a Fripp solo. In those moments where Fripp just stopped and let the soundscape repeat, I was quietly begging for a solo. It would really work great. Now, I'm not expecting anything crazy or wild, just using the guitar for a solo instead of feeding an occasional cord into a loop. In fact I think a keyboard may serve this purpose better than a guitar. Thankfully, Fripp's soundscape pieces and the CGT or LGA pieces alternated, or I would have really lost interest during an hour full of soundscapes. I do respect Fripp for taking a new direction and not providing the expected guitar bedazzlement, but I have seen all I need to of Soundscapes. As for the CGT, you guys are great! I'm looking forward to your next stop in the Philly area. -Ken [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 20:20:37 -0400 From: ranger at haven dot ios dot com Subject: Bonus Material on LOFCG Latest I don't think I noticed this posted here, but the conclusion of The Wabash Cannonball (track 20, I believe) on "Intergalatic Boogie Express", is not the end of the CD, as the liner notes imply. After about a minute of silence, Fripp begins speaking to the audience about sitting in, if they wish, for a "non-performance," conducted on the behalf of photographers who obliged the League by not taking photographs during the actual performance. What follows is a few minutes some fairly wild improvisation that seems to end as though it were all practiced before. After another long silence, another song is played (the title escapes me). Greg [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 22:11:45 -0400 From: Z2000BIL at aol dot com Subject: VIDEO W/ G.LAKE Dear Sir, I am interested in obtaining any videos(live or studio) of Greg Lake with KC. If you could possibly connect me with anyone who might wish to sell a copy, please let me know. Thank you Bill Hamer [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 22:20:25 -0400 From: ranger at haven dot ios dot com Subject: Commentary on Soundscaping IMHO... For both player and listener, Robert Fripp's Soundscaping is a journey, periled by hazard, while continuously tempted by the prospect of reaching nirvana. Regardless of whether one connects with or shuns the music, it is fascinating to witness the process of Soundscaping - to hear note by note, the results of decisions, to see in the face and body the response of the performer. Soundscaping is as much about the process of finding music as it is about the muscial creation itself. In one way, Soundscaping is like witnessing deliverance: an intimate view of the birthplace of musical ideas. Yet I must admit to some lingering disappointment from the recent Soundscaping/CGT/LGA concerts (I attended the New Jersey show as well as the two late shows in NYC). It's difficult to articulate, but it feels as though Soundscaping, in this incarnation, is less musical and more technological. Clearly, the textures and voicings are far richer than when compared with the early tape loop Frippertronics, and this gives Fripp a much more comprehensive vocabulary. But even a rich vocabulary will fall upon ignorant ears if you speak a language that is foreign to your audience. And in this most esoteric form, often absent of even fleeting moments of recognizable musical elements, Soundscapes has become mostly a personal exploration for Fripp. Which brought these questions to mind: * What is the responsibility of the performer to himself? * What is the responsibility of the performer to the audience? * How to the two responsibilities co-exist? Just about a year ago, a CD and supporting videotape of the Robert Fripp String Quintet were released, and the music contained therein is one of the finest collections of compositions and improvisations I've heard in several years. The Soundscapes are vivid, moving from hopeful, to mournful, to redeeming, to horrific. And Fripp does so, to some degree I believe, by blending recognizable points of musical reference (phrases and patterns) with less recognizable elements. Having said all this, I did not outright dislike all that I heard. The First and the Third performances of the last New York show contained, for me, elements of enlightenment and resolution. But as I recall, these were moments where Fripp seemed to ignore most of his MIDI options (of choruses and church organs) and ignore his effects processor jog/shuttle wheel (where sounds would embark on a whizzing, sonic roller coaster of modulating pitches and stereo panning), and just play. But too often, the process seemed to control Fripp, Fripp not the process. Was I watching a musician or a producer? Clearly, Fripp will play what he wants and how he wants to (country music assumedly a safe exception). But does the admiration for the process and respect for an artists personal expression alone allow the categorization of the music as listenable and enjoyable? To use a lazy phrase, is it possible for Fripp to go to far? Symbolically, Soundscapes are very much abstract or modern art. In that sense, perhaps I desire Soundscaping to less resemble a Pollock and more a Picasso I look forward to hearing from other audience members from any of these dozen or so shows. Thanks Greg [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "YOUNGSON C.C." Organization: University of Leeds Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 11:36:14 GMT Subject: Concert taping and sundries Thanks to ET I now feel in less of a minority. I would like to add a few things to the general correspondence: 1) Taping of concerts is a totally futile exercise and is, I feel, an insult to the performers - you should be giving these artists your full attention to actually experience the concert. Let's face it, the human brain has the capacity for memory which can retain and modify ambience and emotion to give a concert a greater significance than can a (usually poor quality) recording. People are still going to bootleg whether or not it's legal or (more importantly) against the artists' wishes but these people deserve sympathy because they probably video their holidays and only experience them afterwards on their TV screens - sad really. 2) Speaking of "sad" - I'm afraid that have no creativity of my own and in an effort to attempt to reproduce "frippertronics" (can't afford to even try "soundscapes") I have found that the Digitech RDS series (producing up to 8s delay) gives a reasonable (if only mono) approximation. Older loops are attenuated as newer ones are added and approximately 6-7 layers are audible at once. 3) "sheltering sky". Great track but read the Paul Bowles book too (loads better than the film.) 4) This stuff about which King Crimson album's the "best" - surely the important thing is that differences exist, who wants 20 versions of ITCOTCK, Red or even THRAK. in the words of Mr Fripp "I am resplendent in divergence". I feel better now all that's off my chest. CCY. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tward at Sgeog dot geographix dot com Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 13:44:59 -0600 Subject: sheet music modul at atlas dot odyssee dot net was asking about sheet music. The Bruford book "When in doubt roll!" Includes some music to a few songs, don't remember if they are Crimson songs or Bruford songs, but he includes drum parts to a lot of songs including Crimson songs. By the way, why does everyone say "Crimso"? Whats up with the missing 'n'? Ted [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tward at Sgeog dot geographix dot com Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 13:55:59 -0600 Subject: bootlegs I have always assumed it was illegal to make/copy bootleg tapes. And although I have no bootleg tapes, I would like to say so what. If an artist wants to was time and effort prosecuting some one who is probably one of his/her biggest fans for having and listening to and copying tapes, then screw said artist. Anyone who is really fanatic about this issue needs to take a good hard look at him/her self and find something useful there to work on. Once you have fixed those problems, you can work on the rest of the world. Ted [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tward at Sgeog dot geographix dot com Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 14:03:59 -0600 Subject: Lizard and LTIA mixes About 7 or so years ago I bought a bunch of old Crimson CD's. About 6 months afterwards, I noticed the same albums started appearing with a sticker that said that they had been remastered by RF (or remixed or something). Anyway, I have found it very difficult to listen to Lizard, and LTIA because of the extreme volume differences. The stereo has to be cranked to hear the soft parts, then when it kicks in it scares the crap out of me. It is kind of neat if you are sitting right in front of the stereo doing nothing but listening, but for any kind of casual (these albums?) listening it is annoying. Did the remaster change this? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Mike Lockyer" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 20:29:41 +0000 Subject: King Crimson on UK Television I was amazed to see King Crimson on UK Television a couple of nights ago actualy at 5.20 am !!! It was a short 10 minute Music Box program on Tyne Tees but made by Carlton. It included music from Thrak over shots of the band and a country setting poss P Garbrial's studio a short interview with Bill Bruford in which he described the music as going back to the 1974 version of the band and he also described it as Metal for intelligent people !! a very very short snippet of the band in rehersal It was great to see the program but what p***** me off about programs like this is the missed opportunity. Why couldn't we see more of the band in rehersal - they had the cameras there. Anyway - is this progress - I suppose so. BTW Bill Bruford said that he believed King Crimson could become fasionable !! Mike Lockyer [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 15:26:11 -0600 From: DaLane at oxygen dot bbn dot com (Dave Lane) Subject: possible new Bruford Jazz effort Organization: BBN Software Product Corporation In a recent rec.music.bluenote article on Oregon multi-instrumentalist Ralph Towner, suture at portal dot ca (Mark Mushet) writes: > There is talk of a trio recording with Ralph, Eddie Gomez and.... > BILL BRUFORD! Unfortunately there is no label interest at present. Just thought I'd pass it along. As a big fan of all of the various Bruford and Oregon-related stuff, I'd be thrilled to see this happen, whether it's a recording or a tour, or both. -- Dave Lane dalane at bbn dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 15:54:41 -0600 From: cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu (James Hines) Subject: REVIEW : B'boom Crimheads, In today's Daily Texan (the student newspaper for the University of Texas @ Austin), I found a review of B'boom, so I thought I'd share. This is the first time I've ever seen the words "King Crimson" in our paper. =46YI, it's found on pg. 10 of the Sept. 13, '95 paper. "*" are used in place of italics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B'BOOM: OFFICIAL BOOTLEG-LIVE IN ARGENTINA Artist: King Crimson Label: Discpline (GM) Rating: **** (out of five) ___________________ King Crimson is a group with a chronic identity crisis. First, there was the late '60s version which stormed onto the scene with its revolutionary brand of apocalyptic art rock. With the constant changing band members, and a shift more towards quirky jazz and pseudo-poetry, the group's guitarist and artistic force Robert Fripp decided to call it a day. But Crimson's death was only temporary as a new, more definitive version of the band debuted less than a year later. By blending hard rock, modern classical and freeform improv they created what some have called a "thinking man's heavy metal." But, Fripp again dissolved the band, and it wasn't until 1980 that a reinvented King Crimson returned. But, after three records, the group split yet again. And just when everybody was certain that the Crimson King would never be heard from again, 1994 introduced another new, improved version with the release the EP *VROOOM*. This calling card was followed a few months later by a full-length album, *Thrak*, and finally the double-disc live set, *B'boom*. King Crimson is currently arranged as a "double trio," with the four members of the 80's group joined by newcomers Trey Gunn (Chapman stick) and Pat Mastelotto (percussion). Oddly, only the drumming fulfills the rich potential of the Noah's ark-like format, creating mind-boggling displays of musical virtuosity, while the other players trade off lead and background roles. Still, Fripp's latest vision is a winner, proving that Fripp has finally kicked the habit of completly reinventing the group everytime. *B'boom* highlights a '94 show, comprising material from the older lineups in addition to new songs. But it avoids the nostalgia trap by effectivelly communicating the vital factors that define the band's sound: brutal energy and structural intellect. For instance, one can clearly hear the lumbering outline of *Red* in both the new *VROOOM* and its cousin, *VROOOM VROOOM* (the resemblance is so striking that one might accuse Fripp of plagiarizing himself). At the same time, there is also a spaciousness and lush melodicism that recalls 80's songs like Matte Kudasai. Many of the new songs have appeared, in some form, on *all three* of the latest Crimson CDs. It is easy to understand the "beat the boots" philosophy, but it seems a bit opportunistic on the band's part to stretch one album's worth of material so thin. On the other hand, *B'boom* does keep things interesting by highlighting group interaction and improvisation, factors that made the mid-70's lineup so exciting to behold. This is an excellent overview of where King Crimson is today, highly conscious of its towering past, but also open to the possibilites of the present. Let's hope that Fripp doesn't get the urge to break up the band again before it can reach its full potential. =A9 1995 Texas Student Publications <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< The review didn't say who wrote this, so I have no way of knowing at this moment. Sorry that this is a *bit* longer than most posts, but I thought ya'll might like to read it. ***Do yourself a favor...BUY B'BOOM!!!*** James "THE MAN" Hines [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:40:59 -0400 From: TwEbB2436 at aol dot com Subject: Allentown 9.1.95; New York 9.8&9.95 yes, a blessing. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:06:40 -0400 From: tcmerrill at tasc dot com (Todd C. Merrill) Subject: pleasant accident, attn: Bill Merrill Upon visiting my parents for the first time in three weeks, I was pleasantly surprised to see a package from Possible Productions in my pile of non-forwarded mail. I have ordered from Possible Productions in the past but did not remember ordering anything recently. I opened the package and pulled out a nice red Discipline T-shirt and 3 CD's. Wow, I must have won a contest or something from Possible Productions or the Elephant Talk list. I checked the packing slip -- all the items were there. Whoops. The packing slip was addressed to Bill Merrill in Texas; my name is Todd Merrill in Massachusetts. I checked the envelope. Sure enough, it was addressed to me. Somebody goofed, big time. As much as I'd love to keep this stuff, I know that by doing so I would be depriving some other King Crimson fan out there who is desperately awaiting his long overdue shipment. (The packing slip was dated August 28th, but as I said above, I visited my parents for the first time in three weeks). So, Bill Merrill, if you read Elephant Talk, email me...I have your stuff! Or, someone from Possible Productions must read this list, so please also contact me about getting Bill his stuff. By the way, that Discipline T-shirt is fabulous, a nice eye-catching red with metallic-silver outlines of the discipline logo! Until next time... Todd tcmerrill at tasc dot com An Apple a day keeps the Pentiums away! --- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 12:10:44 +0200 (MESZ) From: Johannes Korn Subject: B'Boom expensive? Hello everybody, there seem to be quite a few complaints about B'Boom being too expensive. I can't agree with that. At least here in Germany I got my copy for a little more than the price of a normal single CD. (Please don't ask me about the exact price, I have absolutely no memory for numbers - and I'm not saying that CDs are cheap here, I think they have become more and more expensive :-( ) And I surely don't regret buying it. I LOVE the version of 'Elephant Talk'! All the best, Johannes jokorn at mibm dot ruf dot uni-freiburg dot de [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 17:46:54 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tamas Vilagi Subject: Hammill live! Hi ETers! This little piece of info is not exactly KC-related, but since there seem to be other issues in ET not being absolutely Crimsonish, I hope I'm not making anybody furious. Plus there has been questions about a certain Peter Hammill previously in this newsletter. Peter Hammill performed live in Helsinki, Thursday August 24th. I happened to record that particular show to Sony DAT. If anyone is interested, I could trade it to some recent King Crimson, Sylvian/Fripp, etc.. live stuff. I also have colour photos from that evening, also tradeable for KC/Fripp live photos. If you`re interested, please contact me! PS. It was a solo performance, PH played grand piano and semi-acoustic guitar. Total running time 90 min. Tamas Vilagi vilagi at cc dot helsinki dot fi University of Helsinki, Finland [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 13:35:27 -0400 From: tjb10 at cornell dot edu (Tom Barbieri) Subject: hidden mumbling Hey there, Last night I was typing up a paper on the Mac in my lab and listening to B'Boom on the CD Rom. At about 5:17, I could hear someone saying something. I played with it for a while and determined that yes, something was there. The "CD Remote" on the computer has a left/right channel setting. I don't know what this does, since it did set my headphones to either left or right speaker output only. However, it did modify the music such that when either the left or right channel was shut off, I could no longer hear the message. Has anyone else encountered this? Tom Thomas Barbieri http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~tjb10, Department of Materials Science and Engineering [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: vince Subject: Texas Tour Dates Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 14:38:19 -0500 (CDT) I got this e-mail from the folks that run the Austin Music Hall. I couldn't talk the guy into saving me some front row seats. vince ----- > > King Crimson will be at Music Hall on November 1. Tickets will go on sale > Friday, September 22 at STAR. Sad to say, but I have no way to hold > tickets.STAR's # is 416-STAR. They will be $20.50. They will be in Ft. > Worth on October 31 and in Houston on November 2. Tickets for all of these > shows go on sale 9/22/95. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 15:32:52 JST From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa) Subject: Concerts in Japan Hi Everyone, *Yet another concert by KC added: KC is to play on Oct 14 at Hitomi Memorial Hall in Tokyo. Now altogether 6 concerts in Tokyo and its neighborhood. I'll be seeing 4 of them. Will share with you gig reviews afterwards. * David Sylvian is also coming to Japan: two concerts, one in Tokyo one in Yokohama. I'll be seeing the one on Oct 17 in Tokyo. * Django Bates, a member of Bruford's Earthworks, is coming to Tokyo with other modern jazz musicians. Concert is on Oct 21 at Act Hall, Shinjuku, Tokyo. * I just found out yesterday that Bruford will be giving a Drum Clinic (organized by Japanese music instruments company Hoshino) during KC's stay (Oct) here in Tokyo. Will give you more details by next mail. Bye, Tom [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 15:22:03 JST From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa) Subject: KC Tour in Japan Hi Everyone, *There are additional KC concerts now set in Japan. The list now looks like: Oct 1 18:00 Kanagawa Prefecture Residents' Hall (or Kanagawa Kenmin Hall) Oct 2 19:00 Tokyo Welfare Fund Hall (or Tokyo Kousei Nenkin Kaikan) Oct 3 19:00 Tokyo Welfare Fund Hall (or Tokyo Kousei Nenkin Kaikan) Oct10 17:00 Hitomi Memorial Hall, Showa Woman's University, Tokyo Oct14 Tokyo Welfare Fund Hall (or Tokyo Kousei Nenkin Kaikan) It now seems that CGT is also coming to join some concerts of KC. *There will be two David Sylvian concerts: I will be going to the one on Oct 17 at Hitomi Memorial Hall in Tokyo. Another one is at Yokohama. *Django Bates, a member of Brudford's Earthworks, is coming to Tokyo for a concert on Oct 21 at Act Hall, Shinjuku, Tokyo. He's coming with other modern jazz musicians as a part of "Verve". There is now actually a compilation CD "Verve" out for sale. I will be going to this concert as well. I will share some info with you after seeing these concerts. Bye, Tom [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 15:55:59 JST From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa) Subject: McDonald & Giles/Sinfield CD's CD's of McDonald & Giles and Peter Sinfield are available in Japan. I've seen them in a shop in Tokyo few months ago. I do not know the sound quality. Bye, Tom [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 15:42:20 JST From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa) Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #218 Stephen King Mr Matthew Askin's "Stephen King In the Court of The Crimson King!" was quite interesting. Why don't we send a mail to Mr King and ask if he had real interest in KC. Or, will it kill the "strange but interesting feeling" we have? Tom [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 08:57:15 GMT From: orno at mmedia dot is (Orn Orrason) Subject: Sales of Thrak Dear ET readers Is there any information out there on the total sales of the Thrak record. By now the overall sales figure should be pretty close to the total sales, at least in USA. I think this figure is very interesting because it measures the real interest now in KC and could be taken as the upper bound of possible ET subscribers in the world when everybody will have Internet contact. For all your readers who can not get the newest releases. In Reykjavik I have seen VROOM, THRAK, SHOW OF HANDS, DAMAGE, B BOOM, and 1999 in the stores. Quite amazing given the fact that I don't know any other KC/RF fan here and given the size of the market. That brings me to the next subject, being a KC/RF fan in the modern society from the social isolation point of view. Does anybody share this feeling with me ? Best regards Orn Orrason [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 11:32:16 EDT From: John Ambrose To: kbibb at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Celebrity sightings Hello, fellow ETers... I saw KC at the Town Hall in NYC both nights this past June. The second night, I literally bumped into Lenny Kravitz. Also, Bill Bruford mentioned that Max Roach was at the NYC concerts (I don't know who he is). Were there any other celebrity sightings? --John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 21:35:16 -0400 From: Keelo at aol dot com Subject: B'Boom Review Here's my two cents on B'Boom. First, I saw the tour in BA, so I guess I have a different perspective than most. All in all, a very good live album which certainly catches the atmosphere and sonics of the concerts. Red is a treat and I smile listening to B'boom just as I was grinning from cheek to cheek when I first heard it in BA. BUT...do we really need the dual versions of VROOOM, B'Boom and THRAK? I mean if you're like me and have VROOOM and THRAK, do you really need an additinal two renditions? I now have FIVE versions of VROOOM, FOUR of THRAK, and THREE of B'boom. Holy cow. I guess this is RF's way of killing the bootlegger in all of us. With this many renditions of VROOOM (a relatively simple riff type tune), why bother recording concerts? I've got four recent KC discs and if I put on any damn one of them I'll hear VROOOM and THRAK!! It's overkill and if five renditions of RED were released twenty years ago, I doubt it would be so exciting to hear the band crank it out today. It's like RF is declaring these songs classics before they have been tested by time or even his fans. In all seriousness, I think this would have made a fantastic single CD, say 70 minutes in length. VROOOM VROOOM adds nothing, and with the definitive version of B'boom on CD1 (IMHO), the reprise is a yawner. Ditto for THRAK. At the concert I saw, VROOOM was the only song doubled up on, so maybe we aren't being treated to a typical night in BA. Drop these filler versions, Indiscipline since it's already live on FbF, and maybe People, and you have one burner of a single live disc that still captures all I remember from the show, from a blistering rendition of Red to Lark's Tongues to B'boom to THRAK. Why double up any of these songs? Go for a precise & concise kill. Leave it to RF to make me sick of my favorite songs, without even getting any radio play. kyle [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:27:49 -0400 From: pgilbert at ford dot com (Peter N. Gilbert) Subject: soundscapes, b'boom I'm facinated with soundscapes. I have been "rolling my own" using my stick (a grid, actually, so I also trigger synth sounds) and a jamman. I had thought that I understood enough of what was going on, but the last two soundscapes discs have left me feeling like I don't quite get it. So, I was wondering if et readers could point me to anything that robert may have written on the subject. thanks in advance. also, I just got b'boom this weekend: very, very nice. pete gilbert [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 11:56:35 EDT From: david at visix dot com (David Charlap) Subject: Re: Taping diatribe... poeea at centum dot utulsa dot edu (Ed Poe) writes: > >Other artists, however, either worry about bringing paying people >into the halls, I can fully understand this. They want to sell out the shows, because without money, there is no tour. And I can understand the fact that they may wish to release a live album, and they don't want everybody ignoring it, thanks to their own personal bootlegged copy of that tour. >or wish to preserve the idea of any given concert being a singular, >nonrepeatable event. A musician's sole trade (really) is live >performance. To tape a concert against their wishes, or buy or trade >such a tape, then is to take their art (and vocation) away from them >_against_their_will_, and is the musical equivalent of rape. Sorry. This makes sense, except it's not true in the case of KC. Fripp is being hypocritical and autocratic in this case. If he really believes in the transience and personal nature of his shows, then why does the band make a DAT recording of every show? Why are they releasing the B'Boom live album? Why did they release those box sets with the live tracks? In addition to that, someone here mentioned that Fripp forbids his students from taping THEIR OWN PERFORMANCES!. He got really upset when some of his students taped themselves performing live! This is a man who wants total control of everybody around him. This is a man who will say anything to anyone to get that control. I say to Robert Fripp - practice what you preach. If it's "rape" to make a recording of your live show, then why don't you stop recording your shows as well? If it's the money, just say so. Don't make up some lame excuse that you yourself don't even believe. >As a musician, I like to keep tapes of my performances for my own >interest - it's _my_ art we're talking about. That's my right. I >respect other musicians' right to allow or disallow recording of >their performances. Fripp wouldn't think so. If you were one of his students, you'd get a big lecture about how even that's wrong. Face it, he's a damn good musician, but when it comes to the subject of live recordings, he's a flaming hypocrite. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:36:53 -0400 (EDT) From: MARKCH at midd dot middlebury dot edu Subject: Great Deceiver packaging Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I just noticed it: Has anyone noticed that the labelling on the spines of discs three and four from the GD box are reversed (disc 3 is labelled 4 and vice versa)? Enough nit-picking for today. Cheers! murkie [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 18 Sep 1995 14:03:37 -0500 From: "Jessup, Andrew" Subject: RE: The Exposure Confusion In ET 220, Jim Sciarra wrote: > In ET#216 JD Murray wrote: > > > After reading so much about "Exposure" lately and the confusion about > > the different versions released on CD, I was wondering if we could try > > to sort it out!? My version is catalogue EGCD 41 and marketed by > > Virgin....From what I can remember, the CD version I have doesn't vary > > at all from the vinyl release. > > This is intriguing. My CD is also on the EG label, catalogue EGCD 41, > but it is marketed by Jem Records. It pre-dates the "Definitive > Edition" releases, which were remastered by Robert Fripp and Tony Arnold > -- I believe those came out on Caroline. My version does have the note > about being remixed by Brad Davies and Fripp. And it is extremely > different from the vinyl release, as I explained in a previous post. > > So I think I am even more confused now. Is the Virgin release or the > Definitive Edition" the original vinyl mix? If there is a CD out there > that is identical to the vinyl release, I want it! I certainly don't have all the answers for the discographical questions raised by Exposure, but I can offer a few pertinent observations. First and most importantly, Exposure has been remixed/remastered *twice* -- once in 1985, when Editions EG reissued the albums that originally came out on Polygram (this was the same time at which God Save the Queen/ Under Heavy Manners and the League of Gentlemen LP were conflated into God Save the King), and again in 1989 as part of the Definitive Edition CD remastering project. I don't have copies of all three versions, but I believe the drastic changes were introduced with the 1985 remix, not the 1989 remaster. The original 1979 release and the 1985 remix are *both* available on vinyl, so it doesn't help much to just refer to "the LP version." The '79 version is on Polygram [orange LP label]; the '85 version is on Editions EG, which was distributed at various times by Jem, Virgin, and now Caroline. I think that the Polygram version only came in a single-pocket jacket, while the Editions EG version came with a gatefold jacket (at least at first; it may have been cut back to a single pocket later on). As regarding the ultimate question -- is there a CD of the first version of Exposure? -- I don't know, but I would bet against it :-(. [An aside: it's too bad that they (and I don't know if "they" would be Fripp or EG/Virgin/Caroline in this case) won't use the extra playing time of CDs to give us, say, the orginal versions of the drastically-altered songs on Exposure, the deleted League of Gentlemen songs on God Save the King, or the God Save the Queen Frippertronics on Let the Power Fall. Maybe the *next* time the catalogue is revamped ;-).] cheers, --Andrew [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:28:28 -0400 From: george_wiles at emh3 dot arl dot mil (George C. IV Wiles) Subject: more on exposure I've been sitting back and reading about the confusion between mixes of the excellent Exposure album, and felt I had to add my two. My definitive edition vinyl is different from my original (?) vinyl, which are both different from my 1985 CD (one of the first five I bought!). The definitives are not too different from each other, but way different than my original vinyl. I still prefer the first version of Chicago to the newer ones. I would do a side by side comparison, but alas, I have a life. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:43:22 GMT From: delerium at mail dot bogo dot co dot uk (Ivor Trueman) Subject: Porcupine Tree UK Tour The main guy in PT, Steven Wilson is heavily influenced by King Crimson & Robert Fripp also played, I think on the last No Man album - Steven Wilson's other project. Many Thanks Ivor If anyone's interested Porcupine Tree are playing a few UK dates in October. If you haven't heard PT, they sound like an updated early '70s Pink Floyd/King Crimson. If you want any more info Email me - Thanks!! - Ivor (delerium at mail dot bogo dot co dot uk) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ UK TOUR DATES - OCTOBER 1995 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 11th October - Northampton, Roadmenders. Tickets 4.50 Adv. B/O 01604 604222 12th October - Glasgow, King Tuts. Tickets 4.50 Adv. B/O 0141 221 5289 13th October - Manchester, Roadhouse. Tickets 5.00 Adv. B/O 0161 832 1112 14th October - Leeds, Duchess of York. Tickets 5.00 Adv. B/O 0113 2455570 15th October - St.Helens, Citadel. Tickets 4.00 Adv. B/O 01744 735436 18th October - Portsmouth, Wedgewood Rooms. Tickets 4.50 Adv. B/O 01705 863911 19th October - Bristol, Fleece & Firkin. Tickets 4.00 Adv. B/O 01179 9299008 20th October - Birmingham, Flapper & Firkin. Tickets 4.00 Adv. B/O 0121 236 2421 21st October - London, Brixton Academy (Hawkwind 25th Anniversary all-nighter) Tickets Adv. 15.00 (17.00 Credit Card) B/O 0171 924 9999 22nd October - Cambridge, Boat Race. Tickets 4.50 Adv. B/O 01223 570063 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:02:11 -0400 (EDT) From: MBRADBURN at NARVAX dot NAR dot EPA dot GOV Subject: RF,CGT,LG NYC 9/8, LCG,BoT I knew our trip to 9/8 (Friday) for the Fripp/CGT/Los Gauchos show was going to be great when I picked up the rental car, it was Red. After the 3hr ride from RI to Upper Manhattan, then a subway/sprint to the Church on Washington Sq. we were ready for a show. And did we get one. I won't post the set list as I'm sure others will cover it. The church was old and a little worn with a huge organ (pipes) behind the stage, it had the right feel. The Wilsons played a tune in the back of the Church, very nice I hope to get to see them in NY some time. The Gauchos (Fernando & Martin, with Steve Ball (LCG/Prometheus) and Steve Jolemore (LCG/Potential Diiference) were wonderful. To make the audience pay attention by playing unplugged was a coup. Robert's Soundscapes were thunderous,angelic,lighning flashing and wrought with the kind of emotion that make me so thankfull to be able to share this special moment in time and music. I closed my eyes and it helped me not be distracted by the woman in front of us who was mauling her boyfriend or the people in the back talking!!!! I'm sorry but, shut up, pay attention and you may have a great experience, if not save us all the aggrivation and don't go!. My friend said afterwards that listening to Robert's pieces was like watching him have sex ,this was not meant in a derogatory manner, it was just that personal. The CGT was stupendous! They give me so mugh inspiration to continue my GC studies. Bert Lams was exceptional and the Bach F&T in Dm & Beethoven's 5th both rival some of best organ/orchestral reditions of those pieces I have heard. We were treated to 4 soundscapes, 3 CGT sets and the All player Vroom,Larks Thrak, LCG pieces. If you can see any of these performers do. They offer a unique,exciting experience and should be supported. I also just got the LCG "Live in Europe - IBE" & Fripp's "Blessing of Tears" The LCG is great but then, I like the sound of amplified Ovations!!!!!! So there The pieces are all great , Larks Thrak, Eye of the Needle and Wabash Cannonball were high points. The piece after track 19 (Roberts Non-Performance speech), Paul Richards described as "Fractal Jasm, a totally improvised symetrical scale jam session which we did as an encore." and then "Askesis" as an extra gift, WOW!!!! "A Blessing of Tears" is one of the warmest soundscape recordings yet. I can't describe it, you have to hear it for yourself. As to taping, if the performer request we not tape, let us respect their wishes. If you tape against a performers wishes, you only have yourself to live with, and/or the legal and situational implications! Martin Bradburn bradburn dot martin at epamail dot epa dot gov [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:19:50 -0400 From: JMYandel at aol dot com Subject: B'Boom, RFSQ, and Sticks Friends, Romans, Crimsonheads..... I finally found B'Boom this weekend, and I must say that I agree with everyone else's opinions on the superb musicianship that these discs portray. I won't go into lengthy details, but I will comment that the overall sound quality is simply the best I've ever heard in a live package--the sheer rawness of a live performance and even occasional gliches is much more exciting than the polished, carbon-copy-of-the-studio-album of say Pink Floyd's and Genesis' recent "live" albums. And, my personal favorite song, or rather two songs, "The Talking Drum" and "Larks Tongues pt. 2" were very intense! Crimson really displays its ability to capture atmospheres and the wall of sound that it is so much more capable of than any other band I've ever heard. 8^) Also, I picked up The Robert Fripp String Quintet's "The Bridge Between", which is simply one of the most gorgeous discs I've ever heard! And Trey Gunn left me very impressed--some things that I thought were Fripp turned out to actually be Gunn on his Grand Stick! Which brings me to.... Are there any Stick players subscribed to ET? I've been playing keyboard/piano for 14-15 years, and classical guitar for 3, and am interested in playing the Stick--but the music stores in my area have never heard of the instrument, let alone carry it in stock! I assume that finding a Stick teacher will be next to impossible, so I'm prepared to teach myself, but if anyone has any knowledge that they could share with me about this fascinating instrument, I'd much appreciate it. Also, any info on how Trey and Tony got started in playing, and how long they have been playing the Stick would be extremely welcome. Please email me at jmyandel at aol dot com . (Sorry for the non-Crimson question) Thanks, jonathan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:42:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Nick Bratton Subject: Appearances can be deceiving I finally bought The Great Deceiver, and have a question and an observation regarding it. Everyone knows it's good, so I don't need to expound on that. Question- Who is the personage appearing on the cover? He bears a striking resemblance to a photo of Jamie Muir appearing in the accompanying booklet. Is it actually Jamie? Does anyone have any information regarding this? Observation- One of the improvisational tracks (I forget which one, though I believe it is on the third disc) features a bass part played by John Wetton. That is not remarkable in itself, but it sounds very, very, very similar to the bass part played by Tony Levin during the improvisational numbers at the Ann Arbor and Kalamazoo shows this summer. The one I'm referring to was where Tony put those finger extensions on and bounced them off the bass strings. I listened repeatedly to this bit on the disc, and I am convinced that the likeness of the two bass parts is not a coincidence. Did Tony borrow the bass line? Did the group just re-work the piece from 1974, keeping the same bass line? Interesting... Cheers- Nick [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "ToddM" Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 18 Sep 1995 17:41:21CST6CDT Subject: Drumming on "Breathless" This may qualify as an aside, but it's a key to finding some other really interesting music. The amazing drummer on Breathless is none other than Narada Michael Walden, who later went on to produce acts like Whitney Houston. At the same time, he's just a completely outrageous drummer, extremely energetic. Walden played amazing drums on a number of 70s fusion projects. He also played interesting clavinet and wrote great fusion tunes. Here are some that I recommend: Mahavishnu Orchestra: Inner Worlds -CBS records Apocalypse (with London Symphony Orchestra) - CBS records Visions of the Emerald Beyond - CBS records Jeff Beck: Wired - Epic records (with Jan Hammer on keyboards) Roy Buchanan: Loading Zone (excerpts on the Rhino CD re-release "Guitar on Fire") Atlantic/Rhino (with Stanley Clarke on Bass, Ray Gomez on 2nd guitar, etc.) Narada Michael Walden: Garden of Love Light - Atlantic Records (with guests David Sancious, Jeff Beck and Carlos Santana) Allan Holdsworth: Velvet Darkness (even though Holdsworth himself hates this one) - CBS Records Todd Madson - Associate Technician LaserMaster Technical Support Services [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 23:58:24 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: Re: Drumming on "Breathless" >> "ToddM" == ToddM writes: ToddM> [Narada Michael] Walden played amazing drums on a number of 70s Toddm> fusion projects ... Mahavishnu Orchestra: Inner Worlds As a John McLaughlin fan from way back I have to say that *Inner Worlds* has to be the ZERO of his career. It was a 'contractual obligation' album and boy does it sound like it. 'Planetary Citizen' is the worst tune ever recorded by anyone, ever. Full stop. Dig those falsettos from bass-man Ralphe Armstrong. I shiver. I panic. I have to hear it again NOW to rejoice in its unselfconscious AWFULNESS. The turntable is warming up and the stylus is hitting the track and ... AAAAAGGGHH Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 21:46:33 +0300 From: j at vrooom dot pp dot fi (Jukka Kukkonen) Subject: IBE review Considering that the League of Crafty Guitarists's latest "Intergalactic Boogie Express" is marketed with the name and autograph of Robert Fripp, it was surprising not to find him listed as a player: only the Crafty Guitarists Ball, Buttram, Ernst, Gavin, Golden, Pittaway in addition to the CGT (Lams, Moriya, Richards) are mentioned. Does he play or not - please enlighten me. [ He does play. The record is credited to RF _And_ the LOCG. -- Toby ] The record is advertised as "Live in Europe". In this case Europe seems to cover only Germany: it is compiled from 3 gigs in Dusseldorf, Hannover and Bonn. The tour also visited Italy, Austria, Holland, France and Spain, but they weren't always as well received: in Spain the mayor of the town had reportedly burst out laughing when they started and promptly walked out. Perhaps Fripp's crafty guitar discipline suits best the German culture and mentality? I was hoping to hear something like Fripp String Quintets' "tBB", but there's no Mr Gunn here and it shows, especially on the Bach arrangements. There's also not any soundscapes or Frippertronics like on LCG's previous live CD. Patricia Leavitt's voice was left out too (you can hear her voice on "SoH", LCG's 1991 studio album). Some of this simple album's highlights were "Larks' Thrak", a familiar-sounding composition by Fripp, the roundabout "Bach Circulation", "Groove Penetration" by Buttram, "Fireplace" by Ball, and the title track - by Fripp as well. Most of the LCG's greatest hits are included. Fripp personally introduces the "non-performance for photographers" after the show, though (but for some reason he doesn't provide for bootleggers :-) After the wild "non-performance" there is minutes of programmed silence followed by one more performance. You guessed it, this tricky CD is produced and mastered by Fripp (with David Singleton doing a great job with the sound). The sleeve graphics is impressive. Does anybody know what is the cathedral featured? My uneducated guess would be Rouen, France. The liner notes consist of a long 9-part commentary by Fripp, where he explains the history of his financial difficulties and the solution in detail. It was exciting to read it. Examples: "EG's failure to pay long outstanding royalties on January 1st prejudiced our LCG tour...so I sold my rarest guitar, a D'Angelico Excell. This made the tour possible... The dispute and litigation with my former managers had the effect of knocking me out of my six years' close involvement In GC, and just about everything else as well...These were bleak times...How might I turn this appalling situation to my advantage?...The creation of DGM is one of the answers..." So let's get crafty and support DGM. Fripp's commentary alone was more than enough compensation for me. And the music is not too bad either if you are really prepared to give it a couple of ears. VROOOM is a Driving Force, after all. --- jukka antero kukkonen (j at vrooom dot pp dot fi) helsinki finland --- my URL in WWW is http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/vrooom/ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 18 Sep 95 14:11:33 EDT From: toby Subject: Church windows on Intergalactic Boogie Express The church windows are from the Duomo in Milan - Hugh at DGM asked Carl who does the graphic design. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 03:42:02 -0400 (EDT) From: reiver phonics Subject: REVIEW: Soundscapes in NYC Oh my god, Robert called my friend Tom a smartass (and if Tom ever upstages me again... heheh).... ok let me tell this story before I say anything serious about what was a really unique concert experience. Before one Soundscape Fripp asks members of the audience to name a note. So Tom and a bunch of other people shout some stuff out. Then Fripp asks if order matters and a slew of people sorta mutter no, so Tom says yes really loudly (we're in the front row), and Robert just sorta looks at him, grins, and says "smartass." Looking at this from the current time of 3a.m. this seems like the coolest thing in the world. But anyway..... great great show. The Wilsons also performed briefly towards the end. We got the acoustic versions of THRAK and VROOM as mentioned in previous spoilers. Soundscapes are truly terrifying. The second one in particular blew me away despite some static like noises in the middle. That is some dark uncomfortable music, but I liked it, and I wanted to listen to it and really try to process it, but I found it particularly diffcult to deal with in a concert environment. It was almost too intimate and too dark and I didn't want to both deal with it and be around other people. It reminds me not in sound, but in emotion, to a friend I have that plays violin. When he plays, I sit outside the room so that I cannot see him. That's the only way I can feel enough distance to really listen. Seeing Soundscapes live certainly gives you an appreciation of it and I would certainly enjoy seeing them performed again, but I think my next experience with it needs to be alone in the dark with a pair of headphones. I can't quite describe the almost palpable sensation that music provoked. The CGT were as always wonderful (I've seen them play the Bach's Toccata in D Minor the times now, and my jaw still drops every time) and I absolutely cannot get one of Los Gauchos' pieces out of my head. A really memorable and highly recommended show. Hell, even my parents dug it (well the Soundscapes scared my mom a little......) -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:09:07 -0500 From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson) Subject: Lyric change in B'Boom version of "People" (probably trivial) I just got B'Boom, and what can I say but that KC is almost single-handedly sustaining my faith in modern music! Here's something unusual I noticed, however: These recordings were done before any of the album THRAK was recorded. "People" is announced as a new song, and there's a difference in the lyric: where the album version has "People are the main spring," he is here singing "People are the main THING." Perhaps someone cajoled him, or of his own volition, he decided to come up with something a little bit better than "thing." Anyway, that changes nothing in my opinion of the album as a whole... I LIKE IT! -- Scott T. Anderson Gustavus Adolphus College sanderso at gac dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:45:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: B'Boom Name There was a post in ET#220 about the word "B'Boom". I remember reading somewhere (probably in the big insert booklet accompanying The Essential King Crimson set -- yes, I read the whole thing, call me crazy) that a lot of the material (probably lyrics and song titles) on Beat is taken from the poetry and influence of the Beat poets. When I saw the insert to THRAK, an association immediately jumped to mind. The words "Thrak," "Vroom," and "B'boom" are probably derived from Pop Art (e.g. Warhol, Lichtenstein, Ruscha). The photographs in the album insert are reminiscent of Pop Art -- photorealism, the use of consumer imagery, the faded, nostalgic quality of the image, and so on. Just something to think about. Any other opinions on this? - Gideon Banner [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:36:31 -0400 From: PresentDay at aol dot com Subject: Patrick Moraz at Notre Dame Patrick Moraz will be perfoming a solo piano concert as part of the CHAT II tour. The performance will be October 12, 1995 at 8:00 pm in Washington Hall on the campus of the University of Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana. This hall was built in 1881 and is an intimate setting with very good acoustics. For ticket information e-mail PresentDay at aol dot com or call (219) 262-1881. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Niko P., 2743 (AUWI)" Organization: Uni O., FB Wirtschaftswiss. Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:52:25 GMT+100 Subject: re:exposure drumming Hi there, Harry Brocksiek asked: Anybody know who plays drums on RF's "Exposure" album, especially on the "Breathless" track? Someone told me it was Neil Peart, but i doubt it sincerely. Well I'm pretty sure that NARADA MICHEAL WALDEN is the drummer on this tune which, by the way, is my favorite track on the Exposure CD. NIKO PAECH, Osnabrueck (Krautland) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:00:23 -0500 From: eprosser at cscms1 dot attmail dot com (Prosser, Eric) Subject: Tickets For Longacre Theater ETer's, Does anyone have ticket purchasing information concerning the New York City Crimso gigs (11/20-11/25) at the Longacre Theater? When I called information for the Longacre Theater they gave me the number (800-432-7250) for "Teletron" ticket services. They usually sell tickets to all the Broadway Shows. When I explain, they don't know what a "King Crimson" is. "Was that a musical by Rogers and Hammerfrippstein?" they say. Anybody out there know what's up? Any info would be appreciated. An unlisted direst number for the Longacre Theater would be great. I live in DC so please don't direct me to look in any New York periodicals. Thraks Alot, Eric Prosser [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]