From elephant-talk at arastar dot comThu Sep 7 08:14:32 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 22:20:31 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #218 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 218, Wednesday, 6 September 1995 Today's Topics: Tour Dates! Dates adjacent/subsequent to LA re: ET #217 "trading" and copyright infringment B'Boom B'Boom review Re: ET#217, Phillip Glass's _Low Symphony_ new psychodots album Bootlegs KC in '74 Doctor Nerve re: trading live tapes VROOOMSnapBangPopWallopCrashTHRAK Trading, Bootlegs and Ethics: Lets put this issue to a vote! Taper's Response. Beatles'que Thrak Night Watch Concert taping Publicity! REVIEW: Capsule Summary-Fripp/CGT/LGA, Allentown 950902 SPOILER:Gig review NOT Gig Review: Allentown Sept. 2 Frame by Frame More covers signatures Fripp equipment Identify this music. definitive edition RED Re: Exposure Holiday Reading... piano on Exiles NY Concert of Interest FFWD Re: Elephant Talk #217 Possible Origin of B'Boom Title Stephen King In the Court of The Crimson King! Re: Related NYC Concert Fripp in UK? Robert comments on the current state of ambient Who does the soloing in Hope Toyah Willcox WWW site Wetton connection tracking oddities on blessing of tears disc source Videos/"Soundscapes" Videos/ "Sounscapes", pt. 2 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #217 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ARCHIVES: The ET archives are: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/elephant-talk-faq.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 05 Sep 95 19:54:10 0100 From: Toby Howard Subject: Tour dates! Thanks to Jonathan Ferris (jrf at bigjim dot lanl dot gov) for alerting us to the fact that tour dates for KC (and many other bands) are listed at http://www.pollstar.com/ingres/itinbyartist (serch for "crimson"). Here are the dates. I have no verification of their accuracy from any other source. Can I make my usual plea: if KC aren't coming to your fave venue, please don't complain to ET and consume our bandwidth! > Schedule for King Crimson > > Date City/State Venue > > 10/19/95 Berkeley (CA) Zellerbach Auditorium > 10/20/95 Berkeley (CA) Zellerbach Auditorium > 10/21/95 San Rafael (CA) Marin Vet. Auditorium > 10/22/95 W. Hollywood (CA) House of Blues > 10/23/95 Phoenix (AZ) Symphony Hall > 10/25/95 El Paso (TX) Civic Center Theatre > 10/27/95 Denver (CO) Paramount Theatre > 10/28/95 Colorado Spg. (CO) Pikes Peak Centre > 10/31/95 Fort Worth (TX) Will Rogers Auditorium > 11/01/95 Austin (TX) Music Hall > 11/02/95 Austin (TX) Music Hall > 11/04/95 New Orleans (LA) House of Blues > 11/05/95 New Orleans (LA) House of Blues > 11/07/95 Sunrise (FL) Sunrise Music Theatre > 11/08/95 St. Petersburg (FL) Mahaffey Theatre > 11/09/95 Orlando (FL) Tupperware Centre > 11/11/95 Atlanta (GA) Roxy Theatre > 11/12/95 Atlanta (GA) Roxy Theatre > 11/14/95 New York (NY) Conan O'Brien > 11/15/95 Wilkes-Barre (PA) F.M. Kirby Center > 11/16/95 Rochester (NY) War Mem. Auditorium > 11/17/95 Springfield (MA) Paramount Theatre > 11/18/95 New Haven (CT) Palace Theatre > 11/20/95 New York (NY) Longacre Theatre > 11/21/95 New York (NY) Longacre Theatre > 11/22/95 New York (NY) Longacre Theatre > 11/23/95 New York (NY) Longacre Theatre > 11/24/95 New York (NY) Longacre Theatre > 11/25/95 New York (NY) Longacre Theatre > 11/27/95 Columbus (OH) Palace Theatre > 11/28/95 Detroit (MI) State Theatre > 11/29/95 Rosemont (IL) Rosemont Theatre Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 11:04:21 -0700 From: Scott Steele Subject: Dates adjacent/subsequent to LA $40, tough ticket; I wonder about the venue "House of Blues". Maybe you will be party to an awesome event in a small club packed with sweaty Baby B'boomers. My question is: Where are they headed after the LA dates? Being from Oregon, I would definitely consider following them across the western US Deadhead-style. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 14:36:12 -0600 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: re: ET #217 Jon Jorstad wrote: >...I recognized the inimitable guitar signature of RF in the 3rd cut, >>"Regiment"....In the liner notes, RF is credited with co-arranging the >song, >but not with playing, and I wonder if this was for legal reasons. I read an interview with Brian Eno from around that time in which he discussed this very fact. Although RF was present at this recording in it's earlier part(i.e, the songs were still in their formative stages, jams, etc.) he was not present for the actual recordings. Probaly the tape of his solo wasn't high quality, or whatever. The solo on "Regiment"[the best track on that album, BTW--worth the purchase for that track alone] was performed on synthesizer by Eno himself, obviously in homage to RF's original contribution to the track Cheers, Chris Van Valen It's alright, it's over your head [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:17:37 -0700 From: Jeremy Cubert Subject: "trading" and copyright infringment > What you fail to understand is that trading goods is a form of bartering, (blah blah blah)> >>David Hollister wrote: Boy, this argument gets me going every time. I get pretty sick of hearing about the "ethics" of trading (whatever you want to call them) live recordings. Cut Ed and the rest of us in the trading world some slack. Ed is right. None of us (well, *almost* none of us) are out there trying to make a buck off of these recordings. We're simply on the search for material we've never heard before because we get sick and tired of hearing the same material over and over again. Call us bastards if you will, but I will collect live music until I die, and enjoy it too!>> Dave - You and your fellow traders *do* have an ethical problem. In addition, you have a *legal* problem as well. What you are doing is called *copyright infringment*. If you are simply trading a legitimate copy for someone elses legitimate copy you don't have a problem. If you are taping an artist's concerts and distributing the material without their permission you have a big problem whether or not you make a penny. If you are sick and tired of hearing the same material over and over again - create your own material!! Don't release someone elses material for them!! You are ripping off the very people who create the music you admire. They have the legal right to control the release and distribution of their material - not you. Jeremy A. Cubert Arlington, VA AmyJer at ix dot netcom dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Thomas C Keekley (Tom Keekley) Subject: B'Boom Date: Fri, 1 Sep 95 14:51:22 -0500 I must have missed a track listing for B'Boom. Could someone send that to me? I have yet to see it in the few stores I frequent, but I havent been there in a week or so . . Thank you. ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` Tom Keekley (keeks n/a) "There is ANOTHER Skywalker!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 15:01:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: B'Boom review I'm sitting here listening to _B'Boom_, although I've only made it through the first five tracks. Nevertheless, I have already been blown away by the superb renditions of "VROOOM" and "Frame By Frame", as well as the amusing "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream", "Red", and "One Time". The sound quality: No complaints here. All the players are easily identifiable with the unfortunate exception of Trey. One major goal for any future Crimson projects would be to give him a more definite niche in the sound. This is far beyond bootleg quality, but as Robert says in the liner notes, it does capture the spontaneity and rough-hewn edges of a live performance by a band only recently (re)formed. Bill especially sounds incredible - wonderfully tight and defined drum sound with an edge. The price ($29): yes, it is steep - I bought it an my local record shop. The most I ever want to pay for a double album, regardless of the artist, is $23- 25. I was pleased to find other double live albums more affordable, such as Phishs _A Live One_ for $16 and Peter Gabriels _Secret World_ for $20. Most of the releases by this incarnation of Crimson have been rather expensive, and I can only hope that the band members are reaping most of the benefits. My advice to potential buyers: since it's going to be hard to find B'Boom for anything less than the regular price of about $23-30, youre going to have to surrender to that expense if you truly want the album. So, make sure you buy the disc at a local record shop, in order to support small business, or from Possible Productions. It makes little sense to pump money into the corporate chains such as Tower. Thats only IMHO, though... Overall (or at least what Ive heard...) an excellent performance by six of my favorite musicians...an essential item for any Crimhead. The perfect compromise between the slightly under-refined _VROOOM_ mini-album and the almost too-sterile _THRAK_. Really takes me back to that perfect June evening I spent in Minneapolis watching and listening to this wonderful band. JP Mohan Grinnell College Grinnell Iowa [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 01 Sep 95 14:52:49 cst From: derek-furstenwerth at hlp dot com Subject: Re: ET#217, Phillip Glass's _Low Symphony_ In ET217, artc at tiac dot net (Art Cohen) wrote: >Does anyone else find it a little pathetic that Philip Glass has to >look to *David Bowie* for inspiration (and an album that's almost 20 >years old, no less!). > >How could it possible be better than the original? Don't find it pathetic at all!! It is in the tradition of classical music to use motifs, musical ideas, etc. that catch the composer's ear as source material. Any number of great composers "ripped off" folk tunes that were popular in their day as motifs or the basis for motifs in their music. Several, most notably (to me) Percy Grainger and Ralph Vaughan-Williams, made a career of doing exactly this. I hardly think this in any way cheapens the quality of the music composed. Another good example is the popular piece _Finlandia_ by Sibelius, which was also taken from folk melodies of the time. For a modern classical composer to use work from a known artist is really no from the classical classical composers ;) using folk melodies. In the former case, the intent was not to do *better* versions of folk tunes, but to take advantage of a good source of melody. I think that the music that Glass chose for his source material is richly melodious and well-suited to this type of treatment. So, no, I don't think it's "pathetic" that he chose to do this, and I also don't think it's *better* (or *worse*) than the original; it's a set of three musical flights with excellent Bowie/Eno compositions as a launch platform. Btw, the three pieces are excellent symphonic pieces. My sister-in-law, who is a classically-trained and -degreed professional organist (the *highest* of musical authorities, I know, but not just a prog fan who also enjoys classical like me), and also happens to deplore Mr. Glass's well-known penchant for severe minimalism and ostinato, loved _The Low Symphony_. She found it very melodic, well composed and coherent. I don't think the word "pathetic" was part of her critique either. Perhaps you should allow yourself a listen to this piece of music and thus further inform your opinion. Happy listening. "...Riding the Chevy-Chevy-Chevy-ooohhhhh..." d. PS Good suggestion about sigs. Is the above too long? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 16:27:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Levinson Subject: new psychodots album Hey, I just got the latest mailing from the psychodots/Adrian Belew fan club, and the new psychodots CD is now out. It's called "Awkwardsville" and I expect it in the mail any day now. I'll let y'all know what I think. - Joe [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 16:37:20 -0400 From: Keelo at aol dot com Subject: Bootlegs > (Copyright - The EXCLUSIVE right to print, multiply, publish, and > sell a literary, artistic, or technical work or a specific period of time - > Webster's Legal Dictionary @ 1981). Is a concert Copywrited? Does it say so on the tickets? Can I sing back the songs I heard to my wife? We aren't talking CD bootlegs in China here. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 17:00 -0500 (EST) From: MARK dot KEEN at roche dot com Subject: KC in '74 Dear Tony & Toby, This note is written in response to Tony Ola's letter concerning the 1974 King Crimson concert in Ocala, Florida. I first saw KC in Nashville, TN at a small club called "Muthers" in the late spring/early summer of 1974. A few days prior to the KC live appearance, Starless and Bible Black appeared in the local Nashville record stores. I distinctly remember that KC had just arrived >from Florida gigs because their fair-skinned Anglo Saxon roadies were displaying particularly "crimson" sunburns on their faces and arms from too much beach UV. A "boogie" band from Texas called "Nightcrawler" were the warm- up act. The audience was 85-90% male and consisted mostly of musicians from local bands. "Nightcrawler" was mercilessly heckled by the crowd and eventually booed off the stage. Crimso came on the darkened stage to a tape of "No pussyfooting" and without any eye contact between the four musicians launched into "The Great Deceiver" simultaneously. The night I saw them (Bruford, Cross, Fripp and Wetton) was unforgettable. I was sober as a judge and perfectly poised in anticipation. Normally for me, this usually leads to a let-down due to unrealistic expectations. To this day, I tell people it was the most impressive live musical performance I've ever witnessed (And I started witnessing at age 14 with Led Zeppelin and continue through current times with REM and Kronos). A collage of mental video memory clips: During "Dr. Diamond" Bill Bruford switches from standard underhand grip to matched overhand grip DURING a multiple Tom Tom run (the drummer in my band moaned, "How did he DO that?"). A front row fan tires of the hard floor and decides to sit on the edge of the stage only to return to the floor after being intimidated by a RF stare and vigorous head "shake-off". The guitarist in my band laughs during the split second pause between the end of the "Bartered with the Judge..." verse and the refrain of Easy Money. Wetton hears the laugh, grins and looks to RF and Cross for confirmation that somebody in the audience "got it" during the refrain. Fripp mumbles something unintelligible (and likely insulting) between songs about "Nashville" and "country music". During Lament the light technician perfectly blends the three primary colors and makes everything on stage appear "black & white". Also during Lament Bruford begins the (perfect) crescedo snare roll segue from the middle eight back to the verse while moving from a standing to sitting position. RF becomes his most antimated during "The Talking Drum " when he escues his guitar to play most of the progressive crescendo on the Hohner(?) keyboard atop his Mellotron and is tries to make eye contact with the rest of the band to inform them of his (change of instrument) improvisation. The band's set peaked with "Fracture". The almost frightened look on RF's face (Is he really comfortable performing before a crowd?) as the band returned to encore (the crowd was chanting, "Schizoid, Schizoid") And the encore, showcasing the power of Wetton's voice (belying the thin voice recorded on Lark's Tongue's) on "Schizoid Man". I found myself on a trail in the Appalachian mountains outside of Gatlinburg, Tennessee three days later with one of the friends I had attended the concert with. We realized our ears were still ringing. Cheers Mark G. Keen, Ph.D. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:11:24 -0400 (EDT) From: David Lynch Subject: Doctor Nerve > From: pvallado at waynesworld dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:40:28 -0700 (PDT) > I'm one of them! > Doctor Nerve's music has an urgent intensity and complexity that would > appeal to many Crimson fans. Fans of Robert Fripp's lead guitar work will > feel right at home with Nick Didkovsky's tightly arranged guitar parts and > improv breaks. Let me second his recommendation. I purchased the latest Doctor Nerve CD, and several weeks later all the skin fell off my forearms. Excellent music. Like Paolo, I am not an employee of the band or in any way related to them. eraserhead at iglou dot com / Not the gringo director / Tape trades welcome See the Soap WWW page at: http://www.rahul.net/ndanger/soap/soap.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 18:30:26 -0500 From: dumela at databank dot com (tj) Subject: re: trading live tapes >From: dhollist at iphase dot com (David Hollister) >Boy, this argument gets me going every time. - clip - >Call us bastards if you will, but I >will collect live music until I die, and enjoy it too! It's an argument for sure. I used to do some trading myself. But when you read the words of Mr. Fripp himself on this topic I believe you lose the argument big time. At the least I won't go against his wishes concerning his music. I hope you don't "enjoy" insulting Robert Fripp. He's done many things for me (us) so I figure not trading tapes of him is a small thing I (we) can do for him. So I put it to a vote: Fripp vs. Hollister (so much for seeing more than one round) tj [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:30:48 -0400 From: epiphany at eznet dot net Subject: VROOOMSnapBangPopWallopCrashTHRAK Has anyone noticed the reverse printed words on one side of the CD insert for THRAK? It dawned on me recently that each word corresponds to the photograph that appears on the other side of the same panel. Some examples: For "Pop", the photo is of a light bulb exploding. "Bang" has the kids with guns on the back. One panel has a "Crash" helmet. "Snap" for the broken dinosaur bone. Very interesting cover concept. David Maclennan mentioned that the recent KC album titles sounded like comic book slogans ... I haven't heard anyone mention the small bumper stickers that (I assume) Virgin Records made. They say "THRAK" in a neon orange and yellow starburst as if Batman had just punched my car bumper. At first I thought that this sticker had nothing to do with Crimson since KC aren't using any logos or artwork anywhere else that look like that, but printed on the peel off side was "King Crimson THRAK". These were being given away free at a record store. And please go easy on the long signatures. Less noise and more information is what makes ET so much better than most music discussion groups out here. Mitchell epiphany at eznet dot net [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:38:54 -0400 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Trading, Bootlegs and Ethics: Lets put this issue to a vote! Ok people it is obvious this bootlegging/trading/ethics issue could generate, or de-generate into, a lot of posts on either side of the issue. So lets put it to a vote! Send *ME* (not Toby!) your answers to the following yes/no questions, and I'll compile the results and post them in a future ET digest. I'll give you through September 17th. 1) Are you in favor of trading copyrighted material (when *no money* is involved)? (Y/N) 2) Are you in favor of trading copyrighted material (in exchange *for money*)? (Y/N) 3) Would you *purchase* an unauthorized bootleg recording? (Y/N) 4) Would you *trade* an unauthorized bootleg recording? (Y/N) 5) Do you believe that an artist has an ownership right to music performed live? (Y/N) 6) If you answered "Yes" to #5, would you still willfully trade or purchase bootlegs? (Y/N) Extra questions: 7) If Fripp & Co ask us not to record his performances should we heed their wishes? (Y/N) 8) Should ET be used as a forum for trading unauthorized bootleg recordings? (Y/N) Also, because we've basically banned further discussion on this topic (so here's your chance to make your vote without cluttering up ET - not that it will count for much): 9) What city/town *not* covered by the first KC tour should the band most consider to play at in the future? (Name a city/town) And, while I'm at it, last but not least: 10) Do you think there should be an enforced rule on signatures in ET? (Y/N) Answer as many questions as you wish (just indicate the question number if you like), but remember, send your answers to me at DanKirkd at aol dot com (Toby already gets enough mail). Good voting! Dan DanKirkd at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Taper's Response. Date: Fri, 1 Sep 95 18:01:44 PDT From: Ed Korczynski Well, well, well. Things do seem to have gotten a bit heated. It is my sincere hope that this discussion has stimulated people to think. >From: DanKirkd at aol dot com >What you fail to understand is that trading goods is a form of bartering, >and bartering is just another method of acquiring a commodity. Before >people used money they traded or bartered items of worth. Therefore if you >trade, i.e. receive goods in return, you are in effect putting a value on *SNIP* Yes, of course there is worth. If there wasn't I wouldn't do it, would I? The vital point that you entirely miss is... Overall value increases at no one's expense! I gain the value of having a precious recording to enjoy. People I trade with also gain the same value, and all tapers that I know only trade with other tapers who respect the music and never sell it. The artists do not lose money here, I still buy B'Boom and everything else released by the group for their justifiable profit. Whether I tape and trade or not, no one in King Crimson is any richer or poorer. Is this too complex a concept for people to comprehend? Independent, parallel level to money. >The ONLY way one can be "OK" following your argument is to never trade >bootlegs - either make your own illicit recordings and keep them, or never >buy them in the first place. But then we get into the realm of I have only bought one bootleg in my life. I was young, I didn't know better, and it was before I discovered the honorable world of tapers. >disregarding an artists wishes. As I've said before in this newsletter, if >the Grateful Dead don't mind bootleggers then that's fine for them, but if >KC and Fripp ask you not to bootleg then you should respect their wishes. >To find justification for doing otherwise is akin to saying "F*ck You!" to >the artists. It's a matter of respect and courtesy, of which unfortunately >there is little left in today's world. I'll apologize in advance to the readers if my reply here is a bit strong, but I feel that I've been directly insulted by a self-righteous whining toady. If you go back and read my original post, you'll see that I address the REASONS why KC and Fripp have asked people to not tape. Our motivation behind our actions makes a tremendous difference. I can only suggest that people re-read my original post and spend a few moments contemplating it. I harm no one. I have utmost respect and courtesy for others. I am responsible for my actions, I just don't do what I'm told. >From: PhilCYa at aol dot com (Phil Yandel) >In ET #216, Dan Kirkdorffer writes in response to Ed Korczynski: >>What you fail to understand is that trading goods is a form of bartering, *SNIP* >one's own usage! And since, as Dan pointed out, KC and Mr. Fripp has >expressly denied permission to make bootleg copies of their works, this >activity cannot be justified ethically. It can only be rationalized by >anyone who is just out to make or save a buck! Again, I do not justify or rationalize. These words presuppose judgment. I act consciously, no one is hurt, people benefit. Though I'm by no means a rich person, I gladly buy official live works (like I buy B'Boom) when they are available. So I don't "save a buck." Regarding your invocation of copyrights, they exist to protect individuals from having OTHERS profit off their works. Honorable tapers do not profit off of the tapes recorded and traded, so the spirit of the law is not broken. Certainly the letter of the law is broken, so try and arrest me Mr. Self-Appointed-Minder-Of-Other-Peoples'-Business. Incidentally, you've never made a tape of an album owned by someone else, or recorded an album for a friend to listen to? If you have, you broke the law. If you want or need someone to tell you what's O.K. for you to do, you're welcome to it. If any readers of this list have accepted Mr. Fripp as their life teacher, then by all means they need to follow his directions. But they must recognize that different teachings are given to different people at different times, and to not understand this is to fall into fundamentalism. Also, I ALWAYS break the law by speeding whenever I drive on the freeway. It's sad that some people are so quick to judge and condemn that which they do not understand. Whenever you feel a twinge inside you that rings with quiet thoughts like "how dare he" or "that's so wrong", then check your head. Sorry for the lengthy post, but I'm trying to end this once and for all. Feel free to flame me privately if you feel it'll make your life complete: oedipus at cruzio dot com I don't want to clutter the list with this anymore, as I'm assuming that everything possible has pretty much been said. "People fish People beef People arm to the teeth" -Ed (aka edo) ***************************************************************************** "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." "Fruit flies like a banana." -Noam Chomsky -Groucho Mark **************************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:09:18 +0200 (WET-DST) From: TORE JOHNSEN Subject: Beatles'que Thrak Hello ETers! Many fellow Elephant Talkers have expressed a certain surprise at how Beatles'que Thrak sounds. Well, the following Fripp quote could throw some light on this. It's taken from Eric Tamm's book Robert Fripp - from King Crimson to Guitar Craft which of course is highly recommended, essential reading for any Fripp follower. The quote is regarding Lizard album from 1971. "What worries me is that perhaps Lizard won't be given enough of a chance. We've made it so that the 24th time things'll really begin to Zap. At the same time, when the album starts it should really hit you, so that you'll think perhaps there is something worth getting into." It's known for a fact that Fripp admired the Beatles tremendously for having managed to make their music likeable and infectious and entrancing on the *first* hearing. By the 24th listening you were into the subtleties. So the very Beatles'que parts of Thrak could well be a tribute to the Beatles' accomplishments and still function as a 'door opener' for the more adventurous, complex and subtle parts of this Monster Album!! Just my 0,14 Norwegian Krone's worth. :) Tore Norway /| __ / | ,-~ / Y :| // / | jj /( .^ Reborn in the shadow >-"~"-v" of the magpie / Y jo o | Tore M. Johnsen ( ~T~ j Norwegian School of Economics >._-' _./ and Business Administration / "~" | Bergen, Norway Y _, | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 02 Sep 1995 12:07:35 -0700 From: cdosem at halcyon dot com (Sarah Melching Christian Overbey) Subject: Night Watch A curious finding about the "Night Watch" painting is that it is really a day scene. Recently, art conservators and historians cleaned the painting and found it to be much lighter, surprise, surprise, and many details came out of the dingy-ness. Of course cleaning in art conservation is sometimes controversial (remember the books about the Sistine Chapel?). (This info courtesy of my wife who is an art conservator, with a background in the history of Northern European paintings.) Of course, the means nothing in relation to the song, since it stands as a separate art work. Christian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Tatina_S at mediasoft dot net (Scott Tatina) Subject: Concert taping Date: Sat, 2 Sep 95 23:17:04 +0000 (GMT) This in regards to the taping of KC and RF concerts: I took the Guitar Craft Course in 1987 and part of the course was a performance by the students at a bar in Harpers Ferry, West Virginia (my hometown). That night after the performance Robert called everyone into the ballroom at Claymont. He was quite upset !! Some of the students had hidden tape recorders at the bar and taped the show. This was a student show-Robert nor any of the LCGs played. Robert explained to the group of us that he felt that a concert is between the performers and the audience. The adding of a tape recorder puts a different dimmension to the artist/audience relationship. It was no longer a special thing between the two but now included unknown parties not a part of the artist/audience relationship. The next day during my one-on-one session with Robert I asked him to elaborate more on the relationship between the audience and artists. He told me that for him the magic that is generated between the artist and audience is for that time and place to be savored by the parties involved. He equated unknown tape recorders to having someone secretly filming you while you were having sex. Read the liner notes on Soundscapes-Live in Argentina. It gives more insight into the performer's rights to his/her performance. Scott Tatina Tatina_S at mediasoft dot net [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 19:57:49 -0400 From: tjb10 at cornell dot edu (Tom Barbieri) Subject: Publicity! Hey folks, Wow, KC actually got some nationwide publicity. I came home from work on friday, and my roommate informed me that he had just been watching MTV news. They actually got down off of their alternative pedestal to announce the release of B'boom. They also went to far as to tell how Fripp and the CGT are on tour and listed tour dates. No that is what I call progress! Tom Thomas Barbieri ____________ tjb10 at cornell dot edu |__ \ http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~tjb10, | | | o | Department of Materials Science and Engineering _ | | | < Cornell University , Ithaca, NY | |_| | o | ************************ |_____|____/ "King Crimson - THRAK 56'39" of songs about love, dying, redemption and mature guys that get erections." -Robert Fripp [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mathias thallmayer Subject: REVIEW: Capsule Summary-Fripp/CGT/LGA, Allentown 950902 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 04:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Here is a capsule summary of Fripp's Soundscapes, California Guitar Trio, and Los Gauchos Alemanes concert Sept.2, 1995 at Muhlenberg College, Allentown, PA. The theater is a small, intimate place with good acoustics. The show started promptly at 7, so if you go, get there early. First up was the four Los Gauchos, who played about ten minutes on their unamplified acoustic guitars. Very nice and a good intro to the evenings festivities. Then out came Fripp to create a Soundscape. After this piece, the CGT appeared while Fripp exited stage right. After playing a few numbers, they were replaced by Fripp for another Soundscape. Then CGT, then Fripp, then CGT, then LGA to close. (See surprise, below.) (Guitar trivia: Fripp played a sunburst (rather than black) Les Paul-type (Tobias?) guitar.) Some of the CGT repertoire: Beethoven's Fifth (!) Bach Toccata and Fugue in D Minor Train to Lamy Suite The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly some of their earlier material (whose titles escape me) another new piece (I believe) A very good evening of excellent music (about two hours). And, now for the surprise: For the finale, Fripp (now with his Ovation acoustic), the CGT and LGA marched out, paused briefly, then strode up the stairs into the audience. Fripp called the tune, counted off the meter, and then the group launched into..... VROOOM!! Then, they went up through the exit and came back down the other side, stopped, waited for an audience member to settle down and laid down....(you guessed it!)... THRAK!! After, they left, we wondered if it was over, but then the Gauchos returned once more. As they walked up the stairs they crooked their fingers at the audience to follow. "I guess we're going for a walk," I said to my companions. They led us out to an alcove in the lobby where they performed their final numbers. My advice: if you have the chance, go see Fripp, et al, you won't be disappointed. -- Mathias iconoclast at tarkus dot ocis dot temple dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 03 Sep 95 10:26:10 EDT From: Josh Emery <73174 dot 3300 at compuserve dot com> Subject: SPOILER:Gig review NOT Just saw the two Soundscapes, CGT, LGA shows at Muhlenberg. I am not going to do a review because I enjoyed not knowing how the show would be done. I'm posting because niether show was sold out and I want all you readers to know it should be. If you have any interest in Soundscapes or the CGT or Guitar Craft got to these shows!! If you don't have any interest in those things, why do you read this list? I will warn you though if you don't like the Ovation sound. stay away. For all you complaining you went to a Crimson show to 'see' Fripp and were disapointed - go see him solo. IMHO these are very special shows - don't miss them. I'll do a review when the tour is over. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 14:49:11 -0400 From: epiphany at eznet dot net Subject: Gig Review: Allentown Sept. 2 Greetings, This is a lengthy review of the Robert Fripp/California Guitar Trio/Los Gauchos Allemands performance last night (September 2) in Allentown PA. It might qualify as a spoiler, but I sense that these shows vary greatly from situation to situation, so I doubt any surprise would be lost if you read it and then saw one of these shows for yourself. Your show will likely be quite different. We were blessed with incredible seats: front row, slightly to the left of center. There was no stage, so our seats were on the floor about 15 feet directly in front of Fripp at eye level. Better seats were not to be had. At 7:00 (sharp, of course) a 4-piece crafty group from Argentina called Los Gauchos Allemands came out. They stood right in front of us, so close I could have kicked them, and played three songs without plugging in. They were really good, and it was cool the way the entire audience had to be completely silent just to be able to hear them at all. As the place was roaring with applause as they walked off, Fripp sneaked in from the back of the auditorium and walked down the aisle with no one noticing. We just looked to the side and there he was. He smiled, held his hands to his heart and bowed warmly as the applause grew upon recognizing that he was there. It was a full minute or two before there was any music as he went through a ritual before starting any sound. He kissed his guitar as he put it on, situated himself in his seat by rotating to different positions and placing his feet on his various pedals, and then simply sat still for a full minute or more without doing anything. When he was ready, he played a note that at first was only heard acoustically. Then he gradually depressed the volume foot pedal and the piece began. Describing Soundscape pieces is impossible and none from last night resembled anything from 1999 or A Blessing Of Tears. Suffice it to say that these were beautiful, sometimes haunting, and several times downright frightening. Fripp manipulated his effects more than he played his guitar, and often he would simply sit still and listen intently before playing another note. With little to look at, I spent long amounts of time with my eyes closed. I was seeing vague ghost like moving images and fields of colors. It got so relaxing that I forgot where I was sometimes. Then the music would change abruptly and sweep back in with huge organ sounding tones or abrasive, glassy distortions that would scare me into opening my eyes and realizing that I was just sitting in a chair at a show. Amazing. Not everybody was with the program, I'll admit. An impatient woman sitting a row behind us complained audibly during the first soundscape, "I wouldn't have come if I had known it was going to be like this. I thought you said this guy was a guitarist!" When Fripp felt the piece was complete, he gave a nod offstage and the California Guitar Trio walked on and plugged in. This is a group whose albums don't begin to do them justice. They were nothing short of amazing. They opened with Yamanashi Blues, Melrose Avenue and the first parts of Train To Lamy, and they killed. Loud, exciting, and full of energy. They were playing occasional variations in their parts that seemed to be unrehearsed and spurred on only by the excitement of the moment. Fripp said in the liner notes to A Blessing Of Tears that he instructed them to "blow him off" and that's exactly what they did. Fripp came back and did another incredible soundscape, after which the CGT did a rendition of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony that shook the house. When Fripp came back on after that, he had his Ovation acoustic on and was followed by Los Gauchos. The CGT unplugged their guitars, and the whole entourage walked up the right aisle to the top. From there they played an unplugged version of - get this - VROOOM! The audience laughed out loud when they recognized it. It may have lacked the visceral power of volume and drums, but it was still incredible. After that they walked behind the room and down the left aisle and played THRAK. This was cool, though it was not as exciting as most anything else they played. Then they lined up in front and played a kicking rendition of Calliope. As the audience was cheering and applauding, Fripp was rocking his right hand at the guitarists as if to say that it was just so-so. They all walked off except Los Gauchos, who played a few more songs unplugged from in front. Fripp came back for a third soundscape, followed by the CGT who did what was apparently a (very exciting) new song, then The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, and Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor by Bach. They left to thunderous applause, and that appeared to be the end of the show. When the applause died down, no one got up to leave. We all sat there in a pregnant silence which after a minute caused everyone to just start laughing. We started cheering and appluading and shouting "more" until finally Los Gauchos came back out. They marched up the aisle and started gesturing for everyone to follow. The whole audience went out to the lobby where they played two more of their own songs followed by my absolute favorite League of Crafty Guitarist song, Intergalactic Boogie Express. It was an incredible, magical night. The dividing line between performer and audience was broken down as much as humanly possible, and the result was the intimate feeling that everyone was a part of it. Little god-like reverence - just people sharing in a good time with the relationship being mediated by music. Mitchell Bratton epiphany at eznet dot net [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 18:29:59 -0400 From: Sford9123 at aol dot com Subject: Frame by Frame I was catching up on the ET Digest and saw a call for recordings of KC tunes. I transcribed and arranged _Frame by Frame_ for my saxophone quartet, Sax 4th Avenue about 1 1/2 years ago. We have it memorized and choreographed. I have also sent Adrian Belew's manager a copy of our cassette, although I don't know if Adrian has heard it yet. If you would like to purchase a copy, they are $10.00 plus $1.50 shipping. Just let me know! Shannon Ford sford9123 at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 22:02:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Robert Bartz Subject: More covers I'm not sure if these have been mentioned yet, but here are two Crimson covers that were recorded recently: Forbidden - "21st Century Schizoid Man" - from "Distortion", 1994, GUN Records. Excellent version, heavy! It keeps the flavor of the piece intact, though. Unfortunately, you can't get it in the US since GUN is out of Germany (I got my copy while overseas last May). Shapir O'Rama - "I Talk To The Wind" - debut album, 1995, Mind of a Child Records. Somewhat different, more of an "alternative" version of the song if you will, not the etherial feeling like the original. OK. Hope this helps anyone keeping track. Bob [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 16:37:58 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz Subject: signatures Kirill Korneev muses: >P.S. There's one more thing that bothers me enormously: some people's >signatures. Sometimes they take much more place then postings themselves. >Several Kb's of least important information, my mailbox is overflown >sometimes as I get ET. I'd like to introduce a kind of signature >moratorium, though I do not want Toby to spend his time deleting your >precious signatures. I am very sorry if I insulted someone. Anyone else >agree? I for one try to make it a general rule that my sig file only goes onto a message if the message itself is longer than the sig. Sometimes I forget, but it seems to work as a rule of thumb. I've no objection to signatures - quite the opposite, they add a bit of interest about the writer a lot of the time. Most of them are short enough not to be a problem, but long sigs on one line messages can be a curse. Some lists have self imposed limits of six lines of signature, which is plenty for most people to express themselves. While that might be a bit Draconian, a bit of common sense and self regulation wouldn't do any harm. James James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago. Ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand pixelphone james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz / steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807 * You talk to me as if from a distance * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time, * from another time (Brian Eno) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 14:00:43 +0200 From: goran dot svensson at parkmollan dot se \v (G\vran Svensson) Subject: Fripp equipment Anybody know what Fripp used in equipment over the years? Of course I know he used a PAF Les Paul Custom, a fuzz, a wahwah and a volumepedal in the early years. What amplification? Nowadays? Goran [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Mick China" Organization: University of Leeds Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 13:38:27 GMT Subject: Identify this music. Hi ET folks! I need some help. One of the latest NIKE advertisements currently showing in the UK (on SKY TV) is accompanied by some fabulous music. The ad is the one in which a lone athlete jogs along a desolate lane, tastefully filmed in monochrome. The music is a "wobbly" (for want of a better word) bass line which is joined in the last few seconds of the ad by a searing guitar burst, then the music is faded out. It sounds like this is just the beginning to a larger piece of work, one that would be worth checking out. Can anybody identify the music? Is it easily obtainable in the UK? Thanks folks... Mick. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 17:29:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mats Rydstr\vm Subject: definitive edition RED Hi! I've got a question about RED, the album. I'm thinkin about upgrading to a CD of this one and I know about the Definitive Edition, but I don't really know if I've found it. On the other albums (at least most of them) there are the words DE remastered 1989 or something like that on the back but not on RED. I've checked with lots of stores! Can someone give me other things to look out for, like a special number (the one I've seen was EG15CD I think). Is the unlabeled one DE? And also important, are there differencies as with Sleepless/Matte Kudesai? Thanks for any help on this! /Mats Mats Rydstrom - d94-mry at nada dot kth dot se /~~~~~~~~~~\~~BassPlayer/BREAKPOINT~~/ - http://www.nada.kth.se/~d94-mry \ no wrong, no right / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ or guilt admission / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 09:12:54 +0930 From: John Pearson Subject: Re: Exposure In digest 217, "Neil J. Cavanagh" <76111 dot 3636 at compuserve dot com> said: >JD Murray wrote of "Exposure": >>>>My version is catalogue EGCD 41 and marketed by Virgin. The insert only >mentions that it was "remixed to Sony digital stereo system by Brad Davies >and Robert Fripp at Marcus Studios, London." >Does everyone who owns this catalogued EGCD 41 version have the same >"remixed" info inside? Are there any out there that don't have the >Definitive Version or the above mentioned version? Mine is a couple of years old, and bought in Australia. It's EGCD41, and is labelled "The Definitive Edition" on the back (and in the insert) as well as "remixed to Sony digital stereo system by Brad Davies and Robert Fripp at Marcus Studios, London" (on the insert only). It's also "Marketed and Distributed by Caroline Records, Inc." John P. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tjlever at ibm dot net Date: Mon, 04 Sep 95 18:22:34 Subject: Holiday Reading... I've been a long time KC fan and lurking on this list for some time now. I thought I would get up to date before posting anything here, so, before my summer holiday I FTP'd and printed out the entire Discipline / ET Mailings... The printout stands over 50cm high! and I have spent a very pleasent summer (we've had great weather here in the UK over the last 6 weeks) with my feet up in the garden reading everyone's post. So thanks to all that have contributed, special thanks to Toby for all the hard work... I used to think my fascination in most things Fripp and KC to be a rare disease, but its nice to know there are so many other sufferers around the world. All this and new music and tours... I think I can die a happy man now. Trevor Lever [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 4 Sep 95 14:40:16 EST From: klaus at lac dot copel dot br (Klaus de Geus) Subject: piano on Exiles A question that has always bothered me: Who played the piano on Exiles? Has this question already been answered on ET? __ Klaus de Geus klaus at lac dot copel dot br http://www.lac.copel.br/~klaus/klaus.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 16:40:05 -0700 From: woon at ix dot netcom dot com (Harry Brocksieck ) Subject: FFWD guys from the Orb (absolutely fantastic band: the KC of the 90's?)and someone else whose significance escapes me for the moment. Just got the Great Deceiver (I've been out of the KC loop for a while) and i think its incredible. I got extremely lucky and found it used. Who would sell it, I just dont know. Cheers, Steve [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 21:50:46 -0400 From: Mulugalb at aol dot com Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #217 Hello - I am new on, having just received issue 217 and some quick comments to different issues that I hear raised from time to time ... first re: KC w/o Mr. Fripp - remember that around the disolution of the Red-era band, fripp was recruiting the old Ian McDonald (later of the horid forigner !) to re-join the band after which time Fripp himself would slip out the back door !!....also that UK had begun originally as a KC reunion project (without Holdsworth) but stalled once RF had cold feet (the time wasnt right.) Also I wonder if anyone has any insight to the band WWII which was Wetton / Bruford / Wakeman (scary)>>> And about those cool custom picks - I picked up one at a Crafties show in upstate NY and promptly lost it to that black hole that seems to attract all of my favourate guitar picks--- I'd love to get more !!!!!!!!!!!! metin /MULUGALB at AOL dot COM [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 00:09:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles E. Hoskins - Propst" Subject: Possible Origin of B'Boom Title In addition to fitting into the Batman sound effects theme of several of the new titles, B'Boom is very likely a reference to the percussion ensemble M'Boom, founded by the famous jazz drummer Max Roach back in 1970. I assume the initial "B" is a substitute of "Bill" for "Max". A nod from Mr. Bruford to one of his influences? Eric Hoskins-Propst charlesh at psy dot psych dot nova dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Matthew Askin Subject: Stephen King In the Court of The Crimson King! Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 10:56:30 -0400 (EDT) ok... the last post was just an experiment to see if my confuser(i mean computer) actually works in sending out e-mail(I AM SENDING E-MAIL!!), so here goes with an interestin'(at least I thought so) little tidbit connection between King Crimson and popular literature.... How can this be? Popular and King Crimson haven't exactly gone hand in hand (ok, with the exception of the fans of King Crimson), but all other things being equal... blah-blah-blah, yackityschmakity... So there I was there I was there I was READING a BOOK! (have i mentioned i repeat myself under eye strain i repeat myself under eye strain) yes me reading a book by Stephen King. It was called _Insomnia_. And there it was.... How can this be? I knew everyone at ET would want to know about this! ok so I'm gonna do some quotin' from the book accordin' to MLA... since this is for educational purposes and not for profit I think I'm in the clear so here goes... "What in God's name is going on here? ... He was not in his old house in Mary Mead, and he was not precisely in an aircraft over Derry, either. He was in the Court of the Crimson King." (King,p.707-8, Insomnia) yes you did read right, in fact Book(of Saturdays?{I was reading it on a Saturday}) III is entitled: "In the Court of the Crimson King" ,but near the beginning it starts... "With the Crimson King himself! And do you know what? I... just... saw... red!" "The Crimson King, Ed? Who's he?" "Oh, please." Ed gave Ralph a cunning look" (King,p.85, Insomnia) funny thing...In the Court of the Crimson King, red..hummm. Would've calling the book _Sleepless_ been a little too obvious? And perhaps Mr. King would like KC's tour to swing by Maine... "'Not just here, but all over the world. They've been slaughtering them by their thousands, Ralph, by their millions, and do you know why? Do you know why we've re-entered the Court of the Crimson King in this new age of darkness?' Ralph knew. It wasn't hard to put together, if you had enough pieces to work with." (King,p.86-7, Insomnia) "'You can mock, but it's true,... -it's the Crimson King... The Crimson King jumps from body to body and generation to generation like a kid using stepping-stones to cross a brook, Ralph, always looking for the Messiah. He's always missed him, but this time it could be different. Because Derry's different. All lines of force have begun to converge here. I know how difficult that is to believe, but it's true." (King,p.87, Insomnia) could this be a plea to the band to swing by Maine for a concert? possible obscure David Cross reference is this paragraph. did you see it? "Call it Omen V: In the Court of the Crimson King." (King,p.92, Insomnia) hey, is this King's suggetion of a title for the KC movie? Then the confrontation with the Crimson King! "...it was the Crimson King sitting there, his handsome face twisted into a snarl of pain and amazement. One of his eyes glared as red as the eye of a lynx in firelight; the other was filed with the fierce, splintered glow of diamonds. ...The Crimson King leaned forward again on its throne, it's mouth yawning, its remaining eye blazing with red light. ...In a moment, two at the most, the Crimson King would bite through his wrist and swallow his hand whole." (King,p.716, Insomnia) then... "He caught a strange, skewed glimpse of the Crimson King, no longer handsome and no longer young but ancient and twisted and less human than the strangest creature to ever flop or hop its way along the Short-Time level of existence. Then something above them opened, revealing darkness shot through with conflicting swirls and rays of color. The wind seemed to blow the Crimson King up towards it, like a leaf in a chimney-flute." (King,p.717, Insomnia) i don't know but it seems like there are a lot of coincidences here... So if anyone else have seen this connection... speak out now! And anyone you feels like it and i hope everyone does reply reply reply reply i think Stephen King is a King Crimson fan, myself... I could be wrong i have been sometimes you know but maybe you don't so i just thought i would tell you because you should probably know this am i rambling again yes i think i am so when i will come to a complete STOP. 1234 'Kay, bye now "It's only talk!" -King Crimson and the sunshine band(just kidding!) Matt, the "CrAzY OnE!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: strthry at afm dot org Subject: Re: Related NYC Concert Organization: Amer. Fed. of Musicians Date: Tue, 05 Sep 95 11:52:48 EST Hello All: For those around NYC who won't be getting enough Guitar Craft related music on the weekend of September 8th: Biblios Bookstore presents The Wilsons and Tony Geballe, Sunday September 10, at 8 p.m. Biblios Books 131 Church Street (2 blocks south of Canal Street), Manhattan (212) 334-6990 Tickets: $5.00 -String Theory [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Stephen Dewey Subject: Fripp in UK? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 95 17:16:00 GMT Do what? Anthony 'Slug of Doom' Hobbs sez in a reply to Kirill Korneev of Eddie Jobson: >He's not on _Red_, and he was never a member of >King Crimson (unfortunately - imagine UK's first album with Fripp instead of >Holdsworth. *sigh*...) err - let's see; Fripp, Wetton, Bruford, Jobson...sounds like King Crimson to me. So I imagine UK's first album with Fripp instead of Holdsworth and I end up with - Red again! Hey - I think Holdsworth was a fine guitarist, and that the first UK album had a distinctive sound all of its own, and it got along very nicely without any Fripperies (BTW, listened to the UK album for the first time for a few years the other day, and was rather amazed at a) the production - it's got a great sound; b) whatever analog keyboards Eddie Jobson used (Yamaha CS80??) - fantastic noises). I'm rambling. I'm off. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Sep 95 17:36:21 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: Robert comments on the current state of ambient Courtesy of Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk): http://www.cs.mam.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/amb.au [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 18:01:56 GMT From: orno at mmedia dot is (Orn Orrason) Subject: Who does the soloing in Hope Dear ET readers One of my favorite songs now is HOPE from RFSQ , The Bridge Between . It is a beutifully constructed song with very tasteful E-guitar soloing over it. The solo guitarist is not mentioned in the sleves but from the information given it could be either Paul Richards or RF. Paul is credited for using the E-bow which I believe make sustained notes. Anyway I am very curions who is the player because that man is genial in my opinion. My belief is Paul Richards because in the background one can hear guitar synth chords (very fripperie). This song ranks among my all time favorites, better than anything on Thrak. Has anybody heard RF most recent solo CD (not 1999, most propably Soundscapes). Is the music anything like the song Hope or other songs on The Bridge Between ? ______________________________________________________________________ | Orn Orrason - Engineer - MDS LTD/Fjolnemar h.f. Iceland 0 0 | | Specialists in measuring instruments \ { / | | Tel: +354-551 1244 Fax: +354 551 1273 -=- | | E-mail orno at mmedia dot is ||| | |____________________________________________________________________| [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 19:10:17 +0100 (BST) From: Lager Lout Subject: Toyah Willcox WWW site for the Toyah fans out there, a Toronto fan called Stab has setup a WWW site dedicated to her music, films and related things. This can be found at: "http://www.io.org/~stab/ieya.htm" This is still in its infancy, and I'm sure he'd appreciate anything that anyone has to offer! I intend to supply some piccies (when I manage to borrow a scanner, shortly hopefully), lyrics and general info... see you there! Chris. "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" - Neil'83 Chris Hedley email: cbh at vodka dot rhc dot dec dot com Digital Equipment Corporation ltd phone: +44 1279 652250 Colchester, Essex, England fax: +44 1206 785309 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:07:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "Vincent R. Mattes" Subject: Wetton connection In the liner notes of my copy of R.F.'s "Exposure" solo album, there is credit to John Wetton as an "overall" contributor to this work. Does anyone know what was his involvement (playing, producing, writing, etc.) with this album? Vince mattes at geog dot niu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 21:21:00 -0400 (EDT) From: JAY KRESS 202-233-9339 Subject: tracking oddities on blessing of tears >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:53:36 +1000 >Number 216, Wednesday, 30 August 1995 >From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) >Subject: blessing of tears > > >on my copy track 7 (returning 1) gives a track time of 3:59 >but when i play it it either (a) on my home player stops >playing music afyer just under 3 minutes then counts down >for 50+ seconds to the last track or (b) my cd player at >work simply jumps straight from 2:58 to 3:59 then into track >8. > >is it faulty or do others do this? in short, others do it. if you look at the disc, you can see the ring of that minute of encoded silence before track 8... there's something of a constant timing track on cd's, and i think the different dealings of players with the disc(s) reflect the differences in the players, rather than the disc(s). of the three players i tested below, one does what your (a) does above, and two sonically do the same. if i understand you, your (b) skips about a minute of silence, that's actually part of the (as digitized, beginning of 8) end of 7. i don't think anything's wrong with your disk, though i detest what they did here on the tracking- (why not list tracks accurately, and trash that minute?) i've seen a couple discs of the recent past that toy with the timing data (e.g. stone roses' "second coming": 41 tracks on the display, 12 on the rear cover) another feature i see rarely used (well, of my players, only my jvc can display it), is that of an "index", which is a subset of a "track", complete with a timing subset. they don't *have* to have the clock restart with each index, but i believe they can. examples of the use of indices can be found throughout the "complete pipe organ music of j.s. bach" discs, out on the swedish label "bis" my test results: track 7 (rear cover lists lasting as 4:00): -------------------------------------------------------- | philips portable | jvc cartridge changer | |---------------------------|--------------------------| | plays up to ~2:58 then | plays up to ~2:58 then | | display jumps to listing | display jumps to listing | | track 8, and sits on 0:00 | track 8, and counts from | | for ~1:00; then track 8 | -1:00 to 0:00 then 8's | | starts on display & | audio starts playing | | audibly | | -------------------------------------------------------- | mac OS r7.0.1 cd player | 4x cd reader under win 3.1 |---------------------------|--------------------------| | (same as philips) | (untested) | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 21:39:00 -0400 (EDT) From: JAY KRESS 202-233-9339 Subject: disc source Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 21:03:41 -0400 Number 216, Wednesday, 30 August 1995 From: TonyOla at aol dot com Subject: Hello, Elephant Talk! ---8<---(snip)--->8--- A question...Are any of the following Crimson-related albums available on CD? * MacDonald and Giles , Ian MacDonald and Michael Giles (1970) ---8<---(snip)--->8--- try: email: ranjit at net dot com dot com ftp: ftp.net.com /pub/ra/ranjit he lists the following import: >> McDonald & Giles - [Japan/CD] $21.95 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 02:58:41 -0400 From: KRosser414 at aol dot com Subject: Videos/"Soundscapes" I held off on buying the CD single to Dinosaur because it said all the previously unreleased tracks were forthcoming on the new live album. Did "Soundscapes" not make the cut, or did it get retitled? Ken [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:12:10 -0400 From: KRosser414 at aol dot com Subject: Videos/ "Sounscapes", pt. 2 I saw a single sheet flyer in a vinyl copy of Wake of Poseidon selling videos of the Belew band from the early 80"s. I think they're on passport. Are they still available? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mallende at Phoenix dot kent dot edu (The Lord) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #217 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:17:37 -0400 (EDT) B'Boom is too expensive as if that weren't enough,... nobody's got it. what the duck? RE: David Cross on RED,... you can also hear him on "Starless" just a little bit, and i think that his part was taken from the Providence performance of Starless -- as can be heard on GR. give them a listen... it's maybe only a couple of seconds, but definately there. it happens before things get big and loud ANYWAY... i picked up SAOTW and i was sehr impressed. I like it better than THRAK. (they are too different to compare, but apples are still better than oranges.) did they ever play live? are they a band or a project? well, later -- -makotu mallende at Phoenix dot kent dot edu uh... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]