Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk #208 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 208, Tuesday, 18 July 1995 Today's Topics: Fresh Air...NOT Cymbal Ban RE: Query:Let the power Fall Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #207 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #207 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #207 re: A few thoughts on items in ET #205 Psychodots Frippertronics & Soundscapes WALKING ON AIR ON MORNING EDITION Guitar Craft Cymbals (There. I said it.) thrak yack Time for a KC Fiction Book? DISCOG/REVIEW Camilla's Little Secret The Biz Biting my Larks Tongue Robert Fripp:Soundscapes/CGT/ Los Gauchos tour update Aisle Three DISCOG/REVIEW contd: CAMILLA'S Little S. QUERY: Soundscape Thrak review Live 1995 Tour Video The Difference GIG REVIEW: San Francisco GIG REVIEW: LA 6/29 - 7/1/95 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ARCHIVES: The ET archives are: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:30:20 -0400 From: ThadKirk at aol dot com Subject: Fresh Air...NOT There has NOT been an interview on NPR's show Fresh Air, as had been reported by someone else. I am working on convincing the producers to do it hovever, with any of KC band members. Thad Kirk Engineering Dept. WHYY Philadelphia [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 11:49:02 -0700 From: maccoun at violet dot berkeley dot edu (Rob MacCoun) Subject: Cymbal Ban I believe that Peter Gabriel actually deserves the credit for first imposing the cymbal ban (on Jerry Marrotta and Phil Collins) during the recording of the 1980 3rd peter gabriel album. (Fripp was a participant in those sessions.) PG discussed this idea in numerous interviews at the time. I mention this not so much to argue the historical details, but to remind myself of how innovative and exciting pg's work was (for me at least) circa 1978-1984. (I'm still a fan, but I must admit that neither So nor Us did much for me.) Rob MacCoun Graduate School of Public Policy Univ. of California at Berkeley 2607 Hearst Ave., Berkeley CA 94720-7320 tel 510-642-7518, fax 510-643-9657 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 14:57:24 EDT From: david at Visix dot COM (David Charlap) Subject: RE: Query:Let the power Fall Subject: Query:Let the power Fall Z4K42 at ttacs dot ttu dot edu writes: > >This brings up two further questions: 1. At one time I thought it extremely >wrong to consider the material object (book, LP, Cd, etc.) as having any >value because I thought that that deminished the value of the actual work >of art that was captured in the object. I disliked collectors of original >pieces, because they made themselves equal to card collectors and comic >book collectors, while saying at the same time that the music on an LP >wasn't what was of extreme value. Does anyone else see my point? Yes. In some cases, the desire to pay for first-run pressings is silly. But nor always. Very often, the first run includes little bonuses, like extra liner notes, photos, etc. Also LP's generally have more artwork on the covers. If not more, it's bigger than on CD's. For instance, Yes's "Close To The Edge" on CD has a boring green cover. On LP, the jacket folds out to reveal a really amazing Roger Dean painting. The painting is not on the CD and was not on the LP in later pressings. I'm sure there are some Crimson albums that also have little "extras" on the original LPs. (I don't know for certain. All my KC is on cassette and CD). >Is the rarity of an LP make it more valuable when I can get the CD >version anywhere for 11.99? No, but as I said, you may be getting more than just an old record. >Also, I have seen (as with the unopened album I have) >that things that cant be listened to because they are selaled will still >bring a bigger price, how does this add into this? If the album is still sealed, it means that it has never been opened or played. Meaning that the contents are going to be in mint condition (unless someone left it out in the sun). If it was opened, then people have handled it and probably played it. Depending on the former owners' care, you might be getting seriously damaged merchandise. But you're right that a mint-condition album (that still has all of its inserts intact) should cost the same as one that's still sealed. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:09:23 -0400 (EDT) From: CRIMSO Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #207 The Bruford Tapes is a live album with a very bland guitar player on it....He plays Allan's material with little luster and the soloing leaves much to be desired....My Two Cents...I have it on CD...you can attain it in the Midwest at any Best Buy. BTW two very nice albums...The Sylvian Fripp live is wonderful....and I wasnt really thrilled about the album...and The John Wetton compilation "The Kings Road" is worth Checking out...with material spanning 72 - 80. A question, Is this U.K. rumour real??? Anyone with more info please post it!! P.S. - The Guitar players name is John Clark Oh...One more thing...a few Et's ago someone had mentioned the video of Yesyears and and the footage of KC. I have THAT video...about twenty minutes...I know it played Easy Money...then an extended version of Lament afterwords...but I dont remember if there was anything in front of E.M. I will take a look and get back to you....I also have the 70's video of Lark's Tongue part II....that was worth the video itself...It appears to be live...and very good. The Engineer formerly known as Tim [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 17:08:20 EDT From: "michael D. Jeter" Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #207 Hello, everyone....As I have stated before, I was not able to see any of the sh ows on this tour, but reading thereviews, sdomething has been bugging me: the number of people who seem to be shocked that Robert sits down and does not espe cially interact with the audience...to my knowledge, his butt ahas never been m ore than a few inches from the stool on which he sits( Yes, I do feel wir...er, weird talking about Robert Fripp's butt), and that only during an EXTREMELY em otional passage. And, for any who have not thought about it, be thankful that he does play sitting down: becasuse of his posture, he is able to play better than any of the wanking posseurs who call themselves "Rock guitarists." In fac t, the only guitarisdts who stretch music beyond where Frip takes it are, to my knowledge, certain music by John McGlaughlin, and for me, the most gifted musi cian to ever touch the instrument(FLAME SHEILDS GOING UP)Pete Cosey, guitarist for Miles Davis, 1972-75... has anyone else ever heard Pete Cosey? If so, What are your opinions? Michael Jeter PS: to our poster from Russia...is it Sergei? Your post was very inspirational [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 16:38:26 -0700 From: vance at netcom dot com (Vance Gloster) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #207 In a message dated 95-07-10 14:06:40 EDT, you write: >so what would >happen if Fripp decided to retire, without retiring Crimson. It actually happened in the 70s that the members of Crimson other than Robert wanted to go on. The band was called UK with Bruford, Wetton, Eddie Jobson, and (initially) Alan Holdsworth. I thought they were great, but not quite Crimson. -Vance Gloster vance at netcom dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 21:06:02 -0500 From: kikor at interaccess dot com (kikor) Subject: re: A few thoughts on items in ET #205 E#KIRKD at ccmail dot ceco dot com pondered: >>Keelo laments: > >"The concert listed at Poplar Creek, IL (Chicago) for the Three tour never >happened. It was cancelled DAY OF THE SHOW!!! Very pissed off, my fellow >Windy City fans and I were as we cruised the concert parking lot screaming >for justice. I couldn't forgive the boys until I saw them in BA last >year." > >A friend at work told me she "went" to that concert, but that when they >got to the Poplar Creek parking lot they were turning people away because >of a power failure. All true...except: The cancelled show was actually on the Beat tour (w/ Jon Anderson as support act). They *did* play Poplar on the ToaPP tour, 'cause that was my first KC live show, & my imagination isn't *that* fertile! The support act was a local act, "The Elvis Bros.", who were totally inappropriate (IMHO). >By the way, they started tearing Poplar Creek down last week, so that the >New >World Theater could exist without competition. What a great shame! It >was a >fine half covered/half outdoor venue. The New World Theater is a >monument to >the dinosaur music industry, certainly not to the music. I agree. The New World Theater (again, IMHO) sucks...Poplar Creek, R.I.P. One more thing. Anyone out there with an L.P. copy of "The Young Person's Guide..." ever notice a mistake in the track listing? The song list printed both on inside of the record jacket & on the record label note that the last song on side 3 should be "Coda from L.T.I.A. Pt. 2". It is in fact the coda to Pt. 1. Use this info. to win a K.C. trivia contest some day! -frank ================================================= F. J. Mundo - kikor at interaccess dot com "A nickel isn't worth a dime anymore" - Yogi Berra ================================================= [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 02:48:12 0500 From: Ken Owen Subject: Psychodots Hello! I just wanted to let the group know the Psychodots will be performing in Indianapolis Saturday, September 23 at the Patio... It's been almost a year since the ex-Bears minus Adrian have played in this town... they have a new album and, as a fan, I wanted to get the word out. Thanks for your help! All the best, Ken Owen Indianapolis [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 01:38:20 -0400 From: DnTMan at aol dot com Subject: Frippertronics & Soundscapes Ok, I give. Is there a difference between Frippertronics & Soundscapes? -- Tom S. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 01:41:46 -0400 From: DnTMan at aol dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: LA 6/29 - 7/1/95 Hi ETers! I went to all 3 KC shows in LA and thought I'd make a few comments that I haven't seen made here yet. The sets were similar all nights with the obvious addition of Heartbeat on 6/30. Of course we had the "Pond Scum" story and Tony unplugged 6/29. And the farewell for now/ Thank Yous to the crew, etc. for a wonderful tour on 7/1. One thing I particularly enjoyed Fri. 6/30 was the way they played THRAK. Yes it was good all nights but on this night, instead of playing B'Boom first, Fripp did his Fripperscapes and launched right into THRAK. Then during the improv interlude PM put that sheet/ muffler over his drums and started playing B'Boom. Bruf joined in w/ that while the rest of the band kept improvising as normal. I really liked this!! It was different and very cool!! Btw, it looks like PM is holding several soft mallets in each hand at the beginning of B'Boom, correct? Sat. 7/1 b4 Crim took the stage and the house lights were still on, Fripp was sitting on stage for I'd say at least 5 maybe 10 min. making soundscapertronics. Frippy, man. In front of me sat 2 beautiful blonds, whose best features were--WHAT? Backstage passes!! I leaned over and asked, "I noticed you were lucky enough to get backstage passes. Do you know someone in the band?" Turned out one was Mrs. Trey Gunn. They were both very nice & I talked to them for quite awhile til KC started, but to my chagrin they didn't go so far as to say anything like, " btw, would you like to borrow my pass and meet your favorite band in the whole fucking world?!!" O well..:-/ I got to see a funny picture of Trey with a wig on at some Halloween party which, as the other girl (the one not married to Trey) pointed out made him look just like U2's The Edge (she even had a pic. of Edge to show the similarities). One other cool thing...Thurs.6/29 after the show I went up to the stage as the roadies were doing their thing and people were asking the roadies for drumsticks, picks, setlists, etc. any scraps they could lay their hands on. So jokingly I said to AB's tech, "can I have that guitar?" he laughed and said, "sure!" but of course didn't give it to me so (again jokingly) I said, "ah, just break a string off then". To my surprise he did! So I got Ade's B string from the cream colored Strat. Kinda cool, eh? Made a neat bracelet to wear to the next 2 shows anyway. Well, wasn't much of a review, but hell, you know they rule, so what the fuck? Peace - An End, -- Tom Shannon PS - Hey, nice dance steps by the CGT Fri. 6/30!!! Nice to meet you Paul, you guys rock and rule, too. (nice shades Hideyo!) Thanks Toby! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 07:50:52 EDT From: XQVH79A at prodigy dot com (MR BRADLEY H TRUSHIN) Subject: WALKING ON AIR ON MORNING EDITION On 7/14/95 at 7:19 A.M. E.S.T., morning edition (a national public radio program) played about 15 seconds of "walking on air" after a story on the tobacco industry. since this is the third time they have used kc as "mood music" between stories, there must be _some_ interest in ck at npr. they occasionally do pieces on musicians and musical groups on morning edition. perhaps we can direct our efforts to getting the producers of this show to cover ck when they go on tour again this fall (hopefully in _miami_)!!! Brad Trushin [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 09:12:18 -0400 From: giroux at snap dot genie dot uottawa dot ca (Eric Y. Giroux) Subject: Guitar Craft Can somebody please bring me up to date on the status of Guitar Craft ? The latest news I have are from Tamm's book... Instruction Is there still any courses given ? Merchandise Are the monographs still available ? Are the Live! and Get Crafty I albums still available ? Where do we get them ? Eric ____________________________________________________________ Eric Y. Giroux giroux at snap dot genie dot uottawa dot ca University of Ottawa Department of Civil Engineering 161 Louis Pasteur Tel. (613) 562-5800 ext. 6311 Ottawa, ON K1N 6N5 Fax (613) 562-5173 ____________________________________________________________ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 15:25:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: poulj000 at goofy dot zdv dot Uni-Mainz dot de Subject: Cymbals (There. I said it.) "... perhaps Fripp has softened his previous position on cymbals and the like (they were taking all his accents apparantly...." ">2. If Fripp forbade Bruford to use cymbals in the Discipline-era band, then >why do I hear ride cymbal on songs like "Matte Kudasai", "Indiscipline", >"Neurotica", etc.? Or was Fripp just providing a general guideline that >Bruford was allowed to occasionally stray from?" IMO what bothered Fripp, and what I have now come to find bothers me too, is the fairly indiscriminate and lazy approach most drummers take towards cymbals. Drummers are so often greedy with the musical space, whether they realize it or not, and fill it with washes of cymbal dissonance--whether these sounds are appropriate or not. Like it says below, cymbals use the same freqs as guitar--as well as vocals and the range of freqs well above both--so the air seems pretty crowded with crashes, splashes and rattles sometimes. Bruford is the sort of drummer who can fill, or structure, space without recourse to cymbals--he can make rhythmic space out of silence. Cymbals all too often just fill space, rather than structuring it. Not always appropriate. "I don't know the exact answer to this but I do remember reading a lot about it. I think as a general guide line the cymbals use the same frequencies as guitar and would cover up Fripp and Belew. On much of the Discipline era stuff there is very little cymbal riding. I love Bruford's drumming from that period (I love all his drumming but I guess I don't particularly like cymbals)." I was loving his drumming for years before I realized, via an interview, that there was a minimum-cymbals policy at work here. Now that I know it, I agree with it. I love percussion instruments but hate the way so many people play cymbals in a trap drum kit. "Anyway this leads to a funny story.... During Indiscipline Bruford went wild going from one end of his kit to the other over and over and hitting every cymbal on the way. RF looked pretty disgusted. Stopped playing, leaned back, and waved his arm trying to get Bill's attention.... They both started laughing so hard they just about fell off their stools." I bet it wasn't really so funny for Fripp. No wonder he & Bruford had troubles getting along. I don't think that was professional enough of Bruford; the story disapoints me. Think about the collapse of the music they were making; that's what the performers had assembled to to, not to tease each other with noise calculated to irritate. If Bruford couldn't hang with the agreement, he should have left. It was unfair and dishonest to play along for a while and then greedily hog the airspace. ----------------------------------------------- James Poulakos poulj000 at goofy dot zdv dot uni-mainz dot de engjcp at gsusgi2 dot gsu dot edu http://www.gsu.edu/~engjcp/zero.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Unpublished work Copyright 1995 James Poulakos. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 09:37:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "j.serdy" Subject: thrak yack wanted to go on about the new album somewhat now, there's a big hole in my crimso listening. I've heard court and poseidon and larks and starless and red and then discipline and three. now vrooom and thrak. so there's a few albums missing there and I think, especially for the poseidon-larks gap, I'm missing some of what crimso is about now I like frippish stuff. pursuit of listening for fripp links me to eno and t.heads (I zimbra) and pointed me in the direction of such things as phillip glass and steve reich. I haven't heard any sylvian. It's all that repetitive nonesense, over and over, polyrythms, mathematical stuff. but then fripp likes to crank out that scary guitar stuff so there's these two things to frippishness - noise and composure. there's more to frippishness but it becomes needlessly heirarchial for this ramble listening to thrak is like studying. I _listen_ to it. I find you can't use it as background music for conversation. It's not really party music. If I need to do a particularly complex computer task I will put it on and I find it helps me concentrate there's these three spacy things - the b'boom lead-in, radio.1 and radio.2 I don't like the placement of radio.1 in the sequencing for some reason it's annoying somehow radio.2 blew my mind, I could have a whole hour of this texture. it's mastered way too low and the low crunchy part in the beginning needs to be longer. I had some fun stripping the digital data for radio.2 off the cd and into my mac soundedit, cloning and relayering it to make a cool kinda environmental loop that now lives in a hypercard stack. with headphones it's trippy. it's got bits of the b'boom-intro mixed in the background a l'il the highlight of the mann 84 show was industry. "so ya like the wierd stuff, eh?" belew said to the crowd's enthusiastic cheering of the industry performance (at one point he put his guitar down and it continued to screech and holler - quite funny). so I expected thrak to be the centerpiece of the live concert. the drill gag was cool. I think there's alot of potential for the band to let loose here and create all sorts of mayhem. there's been some opinion voiced here in et that crimso do more improv. I'm hoping for more exploratory crimso stuff in the future live and on record the vrooms and associated codas are brilliant. what can I say. yeah! (the only other lyric besides the marine 475 code) inner gardens - well they're pretty I like belew's scream on sex sleep eat drink dream. I think that little job he did with trent reznor gave him some ideas for voice treatment belew likes the scary guitar stuff too. crimso turned me onto his stuff and I traced backwards through his early solo stuff and saw him live twice with the bears and once with a keyboard player & drummer. he's silly - I remember the 84 crimso show at the mann and his legs were jumping around behind his guitar just like bugs bunny does in that old cartoon. a friend of mine I lived with saw his solo show and got the acoustic cd - neat matte kudusai on that one so. thrak. I like it. good show I say to crimso, continue, please, thank you :) -------------- scary's experimental sig http://www.netaxs.com/~scary/home.html blah blah blah, yackety schmackety -------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 14 Jul 95 06:52:00 PST From: "Chris King" Subject: Time for a KC Fiction Book? Quite a number of years ago, I occasionally listened to the band Hawkwind, mostly because they were a lot of fun to listen to. Someone at the time gave me a book written by Hawkwind's lyricist--can't remember the name but he was a Pete Sinfield-like dreamer--that was science fiction and had the Hawkwind line-up as the protagonists. The plot was admirably goofy and fun (apparently a theme with me and Hawkwind). Apparently space aliens came to earth and were taking over people's minds with putting subliminal suggestion/commands in Top-40 bubble-gum rock. Hawkwind would come to the rescue by playing outdoor concerts of their music which would counter-act the bubble-gum subliminals. The story interwove descriptions of the band members and discussion of certain riffs and grooves of their songs. I think there were a few fistfights along the way too. Action took place in classic Hawkwind hangouts. Frankly, isn't it time that there be fiction based on the Crimsons? Something about Fripp's LTIA2 riff knocking flying saucers out of the sky at Asbury Park? Maybe an Ian MacDonald mellotron blast to subdue Martians? Maybe Tony Levin clunking a Venusian right between it's five eyeballs with his Grand Stick? Just wondering. Could be bigger than John Grisham with the beach-loving, page- turner crowd this summer! Best Wishes, Chris [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 16:52:07 +0200 (DFT) From: "C. Kazzer Anglistik" Subject: DISCOG/REVIEW Camilla's Little Secret Hello everybody, Just got hold of "CAMILLA'S LITTLE SECRET - The Steps". A 'couple' of issues ago somebody posted about a release by this band, featuring Robert Fripp, supposedly called 'TANTALIZING EYES'. Maybe anybody could confirm whether this was a single or sth? Fripp, however, is on _this_ release & can be heard playing very powerful, 'shredding' solos on both versions of 'Tantalizing Eyes' as well as on 'Frighteningly Beautiful', which probably range among his best (all IMO, of course). Apparently, Camilla's Little Secret is DAVID SINGLETON's band & they play a kind of hard-to-describe mix between folkish rock, 'prog' rock, pop, etc. which is very listenable. Singleton supplies very enjoyable bass-playing throughout (IMO, of course) & also the other musicians play very nicely. The only point that really took me getting used to were the vocals, but after a couple of listenings this improved. At times C.L.S. remind me of Sunday All Over The World with this 'raw' feeling (as if something is missing in the mix or instrumentation) they have on most of their songs - a fact that might be supported by Paul Beavis' distinctive drumming on both albums. Also, everybody who has followed Fripp's musical output will recognize Cathy Stevens, playing viola on 'T.E.', who also played on 'The Moving Force' (Show of Hands). As the release date for 'THE STEPS' was sometime in 1994, all the desparate frippophiles as well as anybody interested in some nicely refreshing music will have a good chance of picking this up or ordering it somewhere. Enjoy, Claas Here the details (track times are those of my player): Tantalizing Eyes 04:04 The Steps 03:08 Bea 04:31 Life Is Cheap 04:03 Sometimes I 04:40 Stop Go 03:15 Loving You 04:05 Frighteningly Beautiful 03:44 Tantalizing Eyes - Version 2 03:53 Count Your Blessings 04:51 40:15 david singleton: bass, piano, musical direction toby campling-richards: keyboard programming, a&r, tea martin rawle: lead, harmony & backing vox georgia lewis: backing & additional lead vox paul beavis: drums & percussion bobby willcox: electric guitars all tracks arranged by david singleton & tobias campling-richards strings arranged by david singleton, performed by the frascati quartet, viola on "tantalizing eyes" by cathy stevens piano on "count your blessings" by gareth king additional keyboards by paul yarsley-rhodes additional bass by tony "spankster" hill additional harmonies on tantalizing eyes by toby c-richards, special thanks to: robert fripp, indeg & clan, tony & nat arnold, ... mastered at discipline g.m. a singleton & richards production 1994 s&r records s&r cressidia, p.o. box 2077, poole, dorset, bh16 5yr, england SNR CD944 5 028676 000006 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 11:34:58 -0700 From: richie at nova dot net dot com (Richard Schiavi) Subject: GIG REVIEW: San Francisco Just wanted to post from San Francisco regarding the KC shows. I went to the Saturday and Sunday show. Saturday I was in the balcony and it was at least 100 degrees up there! 97 degrees IN THIS City is not healthy or common. Sunday I was in the 3rd row on the floor on Trey's side. Overall, I was impressed by how it all fit together, cuz I thought it could easily be sonically too much for mere mortals, but it was good, and pretty good sound, actually excellant compared to other shows I've seen at the Warfield. I hope I don't offend drummers, but a little TOO strong and long on the drum solo's and stuff, although I like a drum solo, there appeared to be alot of them, enough so where maybe another couple complete songs, or complete band improvs (!) instead could be played. . . I have the KC Concert video from 84 in Japan and Tony just tears up the Stick on that with some great work, so I kinda expected more, but with 6 people now the stage is different, I realize, but nonetheless, amazing work on the bottom end with his assortment of instruments and in the pocket playing unsurpassed by none. Trey's work on the Warr appeared to be doubling what Robert was doing in a lead role, more effect driven,and less in the bottom end, which seemed to allow Robert Fripp to have plenty of room to move about, which he did (sonically that is, since he just sat there, of course :-)) Albeit, much more heavily processed which made it more difficult to discern. The show highlight for me was on Sunday when Tony used the FunkFingers on the Stick solo! Classic! Also, the very beginning of Indiscipline, coming out of the solo, Tony kinda messed up by not coming in full boar on beat and made this classic grin back to Robert who just sat there, frozen. Beautiful moment! (But after reading the LA story about not plugging in, this is nuthing in hindsight :-) Another show low/highlight was Saturday in the balcony, after Tony did his solo piece on Stick, in a mellow moment, this dork blurts out completely loud, "Mr. Levin is in THE HOUSE", in this goofy kinda voice. A crack up. THEN, during a break in Bruford's solo about 20 minutes later, same guy, "Mr. Bruford is in THE HOUSE TOO!". Pretty annoying, yet funny. A question for all past Crimson shows people: Did people used to shout out stupid stuff during Indiscipline? I didn't like that, no pun intended :-) Now the real highlight. After the Saturday show, on the way out, I met up with Beue whom I met from the stickwire-l who ended up also being my neighbor and one of two list people at my non-party (It was too hot anyway :-)) He had come across two backstage passes from a friend. Neither of us had any advance knowledge so were kinda unprepared , ie no frigging camera! But there we were, backstage, virgins of the backstage experience (I don't think I've ever met anyone famous, except the Playmate of the Year up in Tahoe, but that doesn't count :-)). So, I've seen Spinal Tap way too much and didn't know what to expect "backstage", you know, like, record execs, bigwigs, people kicking Paul Shaffer's ass,attitudes au plenty,cigars, little sandwiches, mime caterers - mime is money, but I digress!:-)) But it was just laid back and a very mellow scene. Very professional! Just being in the same room with the band was cool. After about 15 minutes of being awestruck, a light bulb went on and Beau and I realized we should get our ticket stubs signed! (Actually ,we saw someone else do this!!) So we got up the nerve to approach the members , who were just casually walking about the room, having meaningful conversations with the other movers and shakers, compared to what we thought we had to offer in the way of speak :-) (BTW, Robert wasn't there though) Nonetheless, I had lost control of my capacities and didn't know what to say. It is in that situation that you don't want to say the same thing you know they've heard a million times, but just know you are about to. So, Me to Adrian: "That was a great show, my first Crimson show. Can you sign my ticket stub!" Duh! Oh well. . . Beau and I were still pretty timid, then made our way to Tony. He was very tall and very nice, yet I didn't say too much except I was an "internet weenie" and enjoyed his playing and his solo album and asked if he like visiting San Francisco. He mostly said that selling his album on the Internet was the easy part, and he spent the day with his daughter checking out Fisherman's Wharf! Of course, everything I ever thought I wanted to ask if I ever met him, I completely forgot! We didn't talk with the drummers, we'll because drummers are just plain scary people :-) So, then we talked with Trey. To be honest, I always thought he was a very super serious, a kinda Fripp-like guy, but he was very approachable and super friendly (Not to say Robert isn't, but I always get the impression of that Grasshopper guy in Kung-Fu when I think of Robert, and that he would belittle me with riddles and pebble snatchin tricks and I would be humiliated if I ever met him!). So, I guess Trey just needs to smile more in his pictures, cuz he was friendly! I commented I'd like to see a solo tour of his work where he could really shine, and he mentioned he like to,but after the Crimson project, he would be doing another solo album, so didn't think he'd have time. It seems everywhere I've seen him, RFSQ and now King Crimson, he has been kinda restrained and in a support role, and I think he commented something to the effect of he could be playing anything in KC and it didn't matter cuz you couldn't hear him!. I wanted to talk more, but we just couldn't hang any longer, it was so friggin hot and late, so we took off for our journey home. . . -Rich [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 16:45:25 -0400 From: Khosatral at aol dot com Subject: The Biz There have been a couple of mentions of the commerical aspects of the latest KC outing that I thought merited some background. The upshot is that it is good to keep things in per$pective. Take the average US price of a new CD, $16. Figure 30-35 percent of that to the retailer (assuming no loss leaders); 25-30 percent to the record company; 10-20 to the artist (which can be applied against advances); 10-15 percent to the manufacturer; and 5-10 percent to the distributor. I imagine the $25-30 CDs of Japan & Europe shake out similarly. Major label deals are in six figures which the cost of recording, touring and promotion are offset against. So it is easy for a band to move 100,000-200,000 units with a major label and do less well financially that they did as an indie act. (As an example, I heard of a college-radio band recently singed to major label who had a roadie take over on bass. He took a pay cut.) Now, without knowing the specfics of RF/KC's deal with Virgin it hard to say, but it seems he's realized (like Zappa) the only way to have some say and money it have your "own" label. That's why it doesn't surprise me that RF says he will make more money from DGM's Soundscape than THRAK. The deal with Virgin no doubts help pay upfront for the world tour (good techs can run $1000-$2000 a week) and gets THRAK on the shelves worldwide. Other DGM products not associated with Virgin will require some hunting. With acts which haven't put out new material in a awhile, you can assume the record companies figure that churning the back catalog is a goal. The tangled history of KC's recording deals may or may not mean RF stands to benefit from any catalog movement. As for THRAK itself, for the week ending July 15, it was not in Billboard's Top (US) 200, nor in the UK's Top 40 or in any Top 10 worldwide. Whether it ever was I have no idea. The presence of VROOM, B'Boom, the live "Red" single etc. seems to indicate that the goal is small sales of many products, most thru DGM, rather than one mega-Virgin mediated release. Another source of revenue is merchandise, which the band usually gets a good part of. Tour books, T-shirts, hats etc. can rack up a ton of change when you play 25,000 seat enormo domes but venues of a couple thousand are going to produces sales in the dozens or hundreds. Sales of sheet music and royalties from radio stations also figure in, but how many KC cover bands do you know of and how many THRAK tunes are in rotation at the local Z-rock outlet? So, it seems to me pretty strange to claim that anthing associated with KC is "pop" or "commerical" or that RF is "trading on" KC. KC is a going concern, but--in continum of pop music where some C&W crooner named Vince Gill has banked $9 million in a US tour this summer for TENTH place on the list--it is not a money machine. No matter how much I might wish for a chopped down version of "People" to race up the charts, it is not going to happen. THRAK music, as challenging as it is, is just not for everyone. :( ta, kho [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 10:39:45 -0400 From: LarksTngue at aol dot com Subject: Biting my Larks Tongue >>so what would >>happen if Fripp decided to retire, without retiring Crimson. >bite your tongue! OUCH!.....I take it back! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 17:46:13 -0400 From: TRAPDOOR1 at aol dot com Subject: Robert Fripp:Soundscapes/CGT/ Los Gauchos tour update Sept. 1st & 2nd: Muhlenberg College, Allentown, PA USA -CONFIRMED Ticket info: after August 1st call (610) 821-3239. Tickets will be available at Muhlenberg College, discount with valid student ID. We are also working on Ticketmaster. Sept. 8th & 9th: Washington Square Church, NYC, NY USA -CONFIRMED. Watch Village Voice week of August 6th for ticket outlet info. Tentative sale date is Saturday August 12th. Gaston Hall at University of Washington in DC is tentatively booked for Sept. 6th. This is unconfirmed but likely. Watch this board. New Jersey will likely happen Sept. 4th or 5th. Stay tuned. This schedule will be updated in Elephant Talk weekly, or as confirmations come in. Best, -MT [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 21:24:19 -0500 From: bob at astral dot magic dot ca Subject: Aisle Three So I wander down to the local corner grocery store to get some cigarettes and ice cream. In a moment of whimsy, I asked the cashier if they had any figurines of the Virgin Mary. To my surprise, he suggested I try aisle three. They were sold out. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13 0 13. "As God is my witness, bob at astral dot magic dot ca I thought turkeys could fly." -Arthur Carlson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 14:30:32 +0200 (DFT) From: "C. Kazzer Anglistik" Subject: DISCOG/REVIEW contd: CAMILLA'S Little S. I hope nobody got my statement wrong: I don't mean C.L.S. sound like SAOTW. - they only occasionally remind me of them. So please nobody expect anything very similar to them. Over the weekend I had a few more listenings to this & found that the solo on 'Frighteningly Beautiful' sounded oddly familiar. Upon checking the notes on the inlay card I found a short note to this song which went something like: 'We know that samples are not as authentic (or sth in that vein) as the real thing but we had fun trying. Apologies to the artist' (very, very loose quoting). I checked out what I thought could be the source: The solo there appears to be a sample of Mr Fripp's guitar solo on Darshan (live-version on the Damage CD)(!) - the shredding one he plays fairly much at the beginning of the song. Also for all fellow Soundscapophiles: RF's guitar-playing on the C.L.S. CD does not only include tough-but-emotionally-charged 'shredding' solos but also some soundscapish parts (Tantalizing Eyes). Enjoy, Claas [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:41:10 -0400 (EDT) From: The Funniest Man Alive Subject: QUERY: Soundscape Could someone please describe for me what a 'Soundscape' is and what a Soundscape show would be like? I have heard this term, but I cannot assoicate it with anything at the moment. Thanks! -prl |Patrick R. Leyden |cuyahoga at astro dot ocis dot temple dot edu |------------------------------> |"Don't mess with me since | I am working for the IRS." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 16:44:27 CDT From: Bryan Subject: Thrak review Here is a review of the Thrak album from the Kansas City New Times, a local alternative newspaper. It is a pretty favorable review and will hopefully introduce some people around here to K.C. since I have never heard a single song of theirs on the radio here. Here it is: King Crimson (Thrak). Twenty six years ago, K.C. first unleashed on the world its arty, sensitive and ultra-violent take on the pop music with In the Court of the Crimson King. Eleven years ago, they constructed a masterpiece of industrial free-form chaos on side two of ToaPP, the band's last release. So this year sees the return of a dinosaur progressive rock techno-industrial band, taking shape as a double trio, crying "Thrak." Well, K.C. always did have its own way of doing things. With two drummers, two bassists and two guitarists, Crimso '95 offers both a vicious, multi-pronged instrumental attack and a lovely sheen of layered sound sculptures with which to present their songs. This odd instrumentation , more at home in the world of freee jazzers or downtown noise rockers,finds the 1980s lineup of guitarists Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew and the rhythm section of Tony Levin and Bill Bruford augmented by Pat Mastelotto and Chapman Stick player Trey Gunn. What an ungodly din these six shriekers can produce! Instrumental pieces ("Vroom,""Thrak") offer a view into a heart of madness, liberally borrowing from the past (LTin Aspic) while blasting away at a chronically unhinging future. Belew has written some seemingly simple songs that liltingly face inwards, sometimes in the way a John Lennon song might. The aching "One Time," for example, is as good a song as has come out this year, delivered with an affecting openness that's found me walking around town imitating Belew's arcing singing. Not to say that Thrak is without its problems : The too-perfect sound doesn't capture the band's rawness as well as its European-only release of last autumn and Belew's lyrics can tend toward Hallmark-style mundaneness ("People"). As a record,though, Thrak honestly surveys the terrain of a kingdom forever destroyed by violence and longing. By the time "Vroom Vroom," the album's closer, is finished, you hope to God that this isn't a one-shot "re-union," but a new beginnning. B+. Rodd McLeod. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 22:54:40 -0400 From: David00069 at aol dot com Subject: Live 1995 Tour Video Hey Fellow Crim-heads, This MAY be old news but I got my hands on a video copy of _King Crimson In Court 95_. Its a Hi-Fi stereo video of the June 3rd Town Hall concert in NYC. The quality (especially the sound) is incredible. The only down side to it (as is with other non-market videos) is that it is a single-camera video and is mounted for a steady picture but there is no zooming in on the individuals. You see all 6 members at all times. Its a great video, especially for us down south that won't get a chance to see the band this time around. The songs are: Vroom Frame By Frame Dinosaur One Time Red Fripptronics/Soundscapes B'boom Thrak Elephant Talk Matte Kudasi Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream Vroom Vroom People Indiscipline The Talking Drum Lark's Tongue in Aspic part II Vroom Vroom Coda Walk On Air The video runs about 105 minutes great stuff. Let me know if you'd like to trade (or work out some other agreement). David [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:59:52 +0200 From: esmalt01 at sarenet dot es (inaki prieto) Subject: The Difference Hi Everybody: Just read on the Todd Rundgren Mailing List that King Crimson will appear this week on The Difference, a radio show hosted by Todd himself. To know more about that, you'd better look at The Difference Web Site: http://www.roadkill.com/cgi-roger/difference Good luck! Inaki Prieto San Sebastian Bask Country "War Baby. Son of Zorro" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]