Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk #206 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 206, Monday, 10 July 1995 Today's Topics: USA B'boom release Elephant Talkers page Red Shoes trivial matters Ugly Talk KC and progressive rock Boz/improvisation A Bill question Belew and his (tm) Off the Road Crimson sans Fripp Fripp/Belew Interview on Fresh Air GIG REVIEW: San Diego [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ARCHIVES: The ET archives are: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 08:10:42 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: US B'boom release I know many people were excited to hear that there are 3 new releases just out on DGM in the UK: (1) B'boom, the Official KC Bootleg, (2) The new 'Blessing of Tears' soundscapes from RF, and (3) the League of Crafty Guitarists Live in Europe 1991. UK people ONLY -- that's *** UK PEOPLE ONLY *** -- can order on-line from http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/dgm/catalog.html. But, please, DGM will only accept UK orders from this form. They CAN'T process USA orders -- so please don't try, even if you are frothing at the mouth etc. But don't despair: Possible Productions assure me that the USA/Americas releases are *IMMINENT*, and as soon as they send firm details, we'll run them in ET. Please, hang on, and don't mail Possible with any more queries right now. They have had a slew of email already! You'll hear the release news first in ET! Thanks Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 08:10:42 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: Elephant Talkers page/on-line ET posters index Hi, would anyone who has a link to their homepage from the ETers page please send me the URL of a ***small**** GIF or JPEG that I can use to represent their page on the ETers page. All those Lark's Tongues heads are giving me a headache! But *please*, small pics only. Those of you who haven't seen the ETers page, it's: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/elephant-talkers.html (Those of you who link to it, please note the slight URL change) Also, we now have an on-line index of everyone who's ever posted to ET. Thanks to the Herculean efforts of Daniel Kirkdorffer (e#kirkd at ccmail dot ceco dot com). Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 22:22:16 -0400 From: LarksTngue at aol dot com Subject: Red Shoes Hello all you Crimsoidal entities, I would like to trade ROIO's. I am very interested in trading copies from any era of the King. Contact me direct. Thanx -Lewis [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 01:06:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: trivial matters Two questions: 1. Why is "Sartori In Tangier" spelled with an extra "r" in "sartori"? Is this the British spelling or something? Boy, do I sound ignorant. 2. If Fripp forbade Bruford to use cymbals in the Discipline-era band, then why do I hear ride cymbal on songs like "Matte Kudasai", "Indiscipline", "Neurotica", etc.? Or was Fripp just providing a general guideline that Bruford was allowed to occasionally stray from? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 17:05:43 +0930 (CST) From: stephen white Subject: Ugly Talk Subject: about the KC on line > mumu2001 at bart dot nl (christian mogul) wrote: > > Congratulations! I've just read the Ugliest interview/conversation ever! > Probably the fans of Metallica could have done better. I wonder what's > the actual difference between KC fans and Al Bano & Romina Powell ones? > And if there's any, when does that show? Folks, I'm astonished! Did you > ever think what KC thinks about you after such a conversation? I was there. I asked a number of questions like "Does the tracking delay of MIDI guitars contribute to the skewed timing of King Crimson songs?" but these questions were ignored. After seeing a number of silly questions get answered, I tried asking a stupid question (the one about Levin's head and a mirror) and it promptly got put up and answered. Part of the frustration was due to the extremely cumbersome moderated conference interface on HotWired. There are two morals to this story. Firstly, KC have no obligation to be serious all the time. Secondly, you shouldn't make judgements especially when you weren't there and don't know the true state of affairs. I imagine your reaction is what KC have to put up with on a full-time basis. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 09 Jul 95 11:40:52 EDT From: "michael D. Jeter" Subject: KC and progressive rock the press percieves KC as part, and for those really in the know, the founder(s) of a movement called progressive rock. If you accept this, and believe that bands like Yes and King Crimson should ever be spoken of in the same breathe(I do not, and, at one point, neither did BB, then the comparison is apt. Robert Himself has stated the KC was "a part of a movement that went horribly off cour se, and KC was the only band with the good sense to call it quits"(loose qoutin g) ...btw, can someone post the american ordering instructions, including price, for B'Boom? [ see above -- Toby ] thanks [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 09 Jul 95 12:06:50 EDT From: "michael D. Jeter" Subject: Boz/improvisation Boz Burrel was indeed the Bass Player for Bad Co....Boz, in my mind, was a low point for KC, But Bad Co. had its moments, within its own particular genre, so perhaps Fripp's lessons paid off...I will admit: Iused to like Bad Co. until ra dio over played em...and please remember, I said LIKE...i was never a big fan:- )Michael This is still a relatively new band...it may take them a while b4 they do any heavy improv...after all, This ain't the blues, and improv, on any level, is no easy feat...perhaps they would like to make sure that people have a basic under standing of the music(and, come to think of it, that they the musicians, hav a basic understanding of it, ) B4 they start to "stretch out" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Peter Hadley Subject: A Bill question Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 12:30:40 -0400 (EDT) I'm getting ready to order some CDs, the vinyl is worn and scratched. I have Bruford's _Feels Good To Me_, _One Of A Kind_, and _Gradually Going Tornado_. Question: What's BB's _Masterstrokes_ and _The Bruford Tapes_ ? I remember a compiled album from '86 or so with a great cover, this may have been _Masterstrokes_, if so, is any unreleased material on it ? Thanks, --jay [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 09 Jul 95 15:21:15 EDT From: Brian Berry <70003 dot 6460 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Belew and his (tm) >>on 07/05/95, Mark Lewin wrote: >>....my main beef w/ Belew is that he has become Comfortable On Stage (tm). He's a Front Man (tm). he seemed to exude more 'Rock Star Nobility' than ever before and i thought he was coasting through the set....<< Gee, you'd think he's entitled to a little nobility, now after over 20 years in the biz! I think King Crimson has gotten more press with THRAK than it got in the Discipline era. Which is not a bad thing by far. I think it's a premeditated decision by the whole band for AB to take front, and what's wrong with that? It's a role he's obviously familiar with- he's been humble sideman (L. Anderson, D. Bowie), "stunt guitarist" (Zappa) and a absolutely fabulous headliner (4 solo shows, personally, and counting). While you may criticize the rock-band stereotype of "the Front Fan (tm)", I truly believe that it is a dynamic that King Crimson wants to perpetuate; RF and AB know that it's better to have a member take center stage, to have someone the audience can identify with. I'd be hard-pressed not to agree. I saw LoCG a few years ago, and without Fripp giving some acknowledgement of the fans, the show had more a feel of a recital than concert (but that was probably also another premeditated decision). AB truly, isn't the front man, though. RF obviously controls the flow of the show. And if you wanted put the stereotype at is base, if KC felt they need a front man, Robert *should* the one out there. But RF has no want to be this figurehead (hence the subdued lighting) and plus, I can't really picture RF doing "front man antics (tm)" Adrian is more comfortable in the role. Which leads me too... As for being "comfortable on stage (tm)" do you really want them NOT to be comfortable on stage? If Adrian wasn't comfortable with the band, fans and crowd- you think that would make for a good show? It was that familiarity and comfort with his fellow bandmates that led to that "Purple Haze" with The Bears that you found so memorable. (Wish I'd seen it, BTW.) If any ETers could corroborate the "front man" concept in regards to pre-81 shows, I'd love to hear some other thoughts. The show in Cincy was incredible. The fall leg of the tour awaits. Cheers, Brian * BTW, that League show, when Robert did speak, yielded the "there's nothing FORMER about King Crimson" remark that some many others have alluded to here in ET. Led to the first standing ovation of the night, too... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 20:42:10 -0400 From: PaulyRich at aol dot com Subject: Off the Road Hello again E.T.ers, It has been a few weeks since my last posting, not because there hasn't been anything to write about, but mainly because once we hit the West our travel schedule became so brutal that I really haven't had the time or the energy. Now that the tour has completed I hope to have time to get caught up on many of the things that I have neglected during the tour. We had some very good gigs in the West. In Denver, one of the local security guys said to me "I have been working at this theater for 7 years and I have never seen an opening act get a standing ovation before!" and then he bought one of our CDs. The Paramount Theater in Seattle was something of a highlight (for one thing it was the first night that we had proper catering in the CGT dressing room...a deli tray and everything!). I really enjoyed our three nights in San Francisco at the Warfield. The first night at the Warfield, there seemed to be a huge amount of pot smoking going on...did any one catch Adrians' sarcastic comment at the end of the show?,...it was something like "Thank you, Thank you, and thank you for the contact high". Adrian has told me on several occasions that smoke (of any kind) really irritates his throat, so if you must smoke at the shows, please do it at the back of the room or go outside for a smoke break. The shows at the Wiltern were a kind of homecoming for us as Los Angeles is the place where the CGT began its career. In fact, we played our debut gig in 91, just a few miles up the road from the Wiltern on Fountain Ave. in Hollywood at a place called the "Natural Fudge Cafe". I recall that in order to play there we had to buy a certain amount of tickets in advance and sell them ourselves...one of those L.A. pay to play gigs...we lost money on that one. Now the CGT has a short break and then we meet again in a few weeks to do a few summer festivals, the first one is near Salt Lake City, Utah at a Jazz/Blues festival in the mountains. Tito Puente and Robert Cray are the headliners. The Agency who booked this past Crimson tour has asked us if we want to go on tour with Alan Parsons Project and Kansas later this month, but I am not sure that we can fit it in to our schedule yet...we'll see. Later in August the CGT is doing a special introductory guitar weekend course near Washington D.C. This course is open to all those who are interested in working in the Guitar Craft New Standard Tuning and may be interested in attending future Guitar Craft courses with RF. Beginners are welcome, no previous experience is necessary. Any one interested can e-mail to Debra G. Kahan at: 72130 dot 1345 at compuserve dot com At the end of August we will do a short Soundscape RF/CGT tour on the East Coast with special guests "Los Gauchos" from Argentina. Michael Tedesco (TRAPDOOR1 at aol dot com) is the one to contact about tour dates for this one. And then at the end of September we are off to Japan to begin the next leg of touring with KC. The next American leg is being planned now for the end of Oct. and Nov., but I don't know it there are any dates confirmed yet. I spoke briefly with the agent who is setting up the tour and it seems that the idea is to mainly play in cities that we did not get to on this last leg, so some of you complainers from the southern part of the states may be in luck. That's it for now....take care, Paul Richards - California Guitar Trio P.S. Thanks to the person who posted the well written story in ET #203 about the private RF/CGT gig at the Abbey Road dist. warehouse in Santa Ana. We had just flown in from San Francisco and drove straight to the warehouse from the airport. I was feeling pretty awful and I had to really struggle to find any enthusiasm to perform (on our day off) in a big noisy warehouse, so I am happy to hear that this show made an impression (at least on the two guys delivering the computer screens). The main reason for this gig (besides the screensaver display) was to build our relationship with AEC and Abbey Road Dist. who are the main people who sell the Discipline catalog in the U.S., so I am happy to hear that it went over well. I thought that the paging for "Pedro Ortiz" really added a new dimension to the music and the performance as well. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 22:49:28 -0400 From: LarksTngue at aol dot com Subject: Crimson sans Fripp > p.s. if belew,bruford.levin were to start their own band called king > crimson would any one notice the difference or care? Wow!!!! I thought I was the only one that thought this. I saw KC in San Diego. It was probably the best show I've ever seen (and I've seen A LOT). Think about it, though. How many times did you see Fripp NOT playing? He seemed like he was looking down with pride upon a nachine that he had built, watching it run just as he had designed. Right now, everyone in Crimson writes their own parts, and AB writes the lyrics, so what would happen if Fripp decided to retire, without retiring Crimson. I don't really think this would happen, but I did think about this on the long trip home (I live in Vegas and we took a wrong turn and somehow ended up in El Cajon). Who would he give the reigns to? Just a thought. Also, to you people that think that Crimso let you down with THRAK all I can say is.... Maybe you just don't get it yet. I have many great albums in my collection that I didn't originally like, but over time I got it. I understood what was being said. I understand this album, I think, but I truly cannot understand your criticisms of it. And I still don't hear the Beatles connection, other than that AB usually sounds like he wants to be a Beatle. BTW, I wasn't advocating that RF leave Crimson, or saying that he is now useless, RF is a musical god, but maybe he has finally assembled a band that is capable of carrying on his vision without him. LATERS -Lewis [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 17:04:27 0600 From: Rolando Palacios Organization: Engineering Subject: Fripp/Belew Interview on Fresh Air Someone asked about an interview Terry Gross conducted with RF and AB on her NPR (National Public Radio) show called Fresh Air. Casette tapes are available: FRESH AIR Cassettes are now available for FRESH AIR (most of the programs from July 1993 on). The cost is $9.95 plus shipping and handling. Listeners can call 1-800-934-6000 to request tapes of Fresh Air. Ask for the show with Fripp and Belew. The number they gave me to call from outside the U.S. is 609/951-2230. NPR also has a Web site: http://www.npr.org Check out the FAQ under their "Contact NPR" page for more details on show transcripts and tapes. Nice job with ET, Toby. Later [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: William J Jacobs Subject: GIG REVIEW: San Diego Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 15:08:30 -0700 (PDT) I was hoping to avoid subjecting you to my meager reviewing abilities, but it looks like nobody else is going to review the San Diego show, and we _do_ want a complete set, so . . . I arrived a bit late, so by the time I got to Copley Symphony Hall, the CGT already had the audience mesmerized. The trio used the same heavily distorted sound that they had during the Soundscapes tour; it sounded much more appropriate thundering out of massive speaker stacks than in the intimate venues they played last time. Pretty much the same set list as the Soundscapes tour, too. And I still think Tocata and Fugue is a novelty tune, although the audience disagreed. Copley Symphony Hall must be one of the largest venues on the tour. It did manage to sell out though. I'm still not sure what the first tune KC played was. The sound was really muddy through it and through Dinosaur, which they played next. I guess the soundman must have figured something out because the mix got a lot better after that. In fact, the drums were mixed perfectly, exactly the same volume for each drummer so that I seperate the two unless I actually watched them. All the strings were usually pretty clear, too, but I frequently saw Gunn or Levin performing odd contortions and wasn't able to figure out what sounds they were making. Once the sound cleared up I was actually able to enjoy the music. I had avoided reading earlier gig reviews so I could be surprised by the setlist, but I needed have bothered. It was pretty much a greatest hits setlist, nothing surprising. I'm not complaining, though. Since this was my first time hearing KC live, I wanted to hear all the old favorites. Next time, I want to hear the obscure stuff, though. I thought the live version of People far superior to the studio version; it really brought out the song's potential. Discipline is the one KC studio album I haven't picked up, so this was the first time I ever heard Indiscipline. I like it. My favorite parts of the concert would have to be the improvs. There were three or four of them, and they all evolved into very interesting music. Most were too short though, I'd like to hear one stretching out a good 15 minutes like the ones on the Great Deceiver box. The mid-Thrak improv, in particular, could have used another five minutes or so. There were, of course, some vicious solos, a couple of which could actually be traced back to Robert Fripp. Still, it seemed to be a team effort the full way through. It never turned into one guy and his back-up band. The crowd was fairly well behaved with the usual smattering of pinheads. There were a couple of guys who insisted on standing up and raising their fists in the air after every solo in every song. Eventually, they were assigned their very own security guard who would sit them back down after every solo. Lots of folks raised their fists when Belew started doing the seagull sounds for Maday Kudesai. Odd that. Bill jacobs [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]