Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk #202 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 202, Sunday, 25 June 1995 Today's Topics: URGENT NOTICE: KC online 6/26! Crimson video Music between CGT and KC Re: youngest KC concert attendee Re: 10-month-old-babies...... Red again ? Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #201 Redux: Marine 475 hypotheses Adrian Belew trey gunn Re: #1(3) Elephant-talk digest v95 #201 Number of ET subscribers = Number of Crimson fans? Re: Youngest KC concert attendee Concert Goodies June 12th Kalamazoo Gig and Lobotomy Candidates More thoughts on KC in Minneapolis Re: #3(3) Elephant-talk digest v95 #201 KC Seattle and The Music of Awakening GIG REVIEW: Vancouver [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 08:00:17 -0700 From: Malcolm Humes (by way of mal at emf dot net (Malcolm Humes)) Subject: URGENT NOTICE: KC online 6/26! This is to alert you to an online appearance of King Crimson scheduled for Hot Wired's chat area this Monday, the 26th, at 1 PM California time... See the announcement below found on HotWired's server, and please forward asap if you feel it appropriate and see this in time. I hope many of the ET list members can make it. via http://www.hotwired.com/Piazza/Club/ > U P C O M I N G E V E N T S > > [King Crimson] Monday, 26 June > 1 p.m. PDT > King Crimson, Progressive Rockers > > According to guitarist Robert Fripp, King Crimson "lives > in different bodies at different times.... When music > appears which only King Crimson can play, then - sooner or > later - King Crimson appears to play the music." In its > current incarnation, the band consists of six, > well-seasoned performers (Fripp, guitarist Adrian Belew, > stick-player Trey Gunn, bassist Tony Levin, and > percussionists Bill Bruford and Pat Mastelotto) who have, > over the years, collaborated with just about everybody who > was anybody on the progressive rock scene, including > Talking Heads, Frank Zappa, Brian Eno, Yes, Genesis, David > Bowie, Foreigner, and Bad Company. Members of King Crimson > #10 will take a moment from their "Thrak" tour to join us > in Club Wired on Monday, 26 June, at 1 p.m. PDT (21:00 > GMT). > > Copyright =A9 1995 HotWired Ventures LLC All rights > reserved. This is a forum reachable via telnet and as I understand it the chats are unmoderated - if anyone keeps shouting "BRRRRUFFFORD!" I'm gonna mailbomb them! This it seems likely about as close as many of may ever get to interact with folks from King Crimson online via email.. though I would like to suggest that we ask the band to perhaps someday do a special online chat of a similar nature but *only* open to ET subscribers... the Club WiReD thing is likely to be as noisy as the last AOL KC related Fripp online chat. Folks around San Francisco might anticipate some KC sighting around the SOMA "multi-media gulch" area Monday as it seems likely this may originate from Wired headquarters. Say, can anyone else imagine Robert Fripp broadcasting missives by CUSEEME2 videocam net software? Don't get your hopes up. :^) best regards, Malcolm Humes mal at emf dot net http://www.emf.net/~mal P.S. >> ... the band consists of six, well-seasoned performers >> ... who have, over the years, collaborated with just about >> everybody who was anybody on the progressive rock scene, >> including ... Foreigner, and Bad Company. Anyone else get a good laugh outta this? I'm still pondering which of the 6 folks they mentioned actually collaborated with Foreigner or Bad Company. Did I miss a few guest spots during that late 70's Crimson lull? Must've been some session work Tony did... :^) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 12:15:04 EST From: Steven_L dot _Bender at mail dot nltl dot columbia dot edu (Steven L. Bender) Organization: NLTL/The Dalton School Subject: Crimson video Hi there-- You probably know this, but I was surprised to find a video of the June 3rd Town Hall (New York) show in a local booterie. It's nicely packaged, with a reproduction of the "Court" cover on the front, and a printed setlist on the back of the box. The sound quality is excellent, the video okay-- obviously filmed on a tripod from the balcony, no close-ups or camera movement-- the six members just fit into the frame. Thought you'd want to know. Steve -- Delivered by the Dalton/NLTL Internet gateway. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 13:48:14 -0400 (EDT) From: terry kroetsch f Subject: Music between CGT and KC The music I heard between CGT and KC in both Toronto and Ann Arbor was NOT Tony Levin - not even close. Is sounds to me like some muzak/quirky Crimsonoid stuff. I would love to know what is really is - is there access to this music? Terry (who believes no sig is the best sig and is very much against the newest trend to NOT SIGNAL lane changes) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 13:58:26 -0400 From: mchugh at telco dot com (Mike McHugh) Subject: Re: youngest KC concert attendee > From: Beth Ustas Spellman > > Well, I think I may have the youngest KC attendee... > > I was at the Boston show 7.5 months pregnant, I think that is probably > going to be hard to beat (unless you don't count babies until they are > born!). Not to disappoint you Beth, but my wife was 5 months pregnant at this same show. :) Mike [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 14:30:53 GMT From: jmc at sdr dot utias dot utoronto dot ca (James MacKenzie Crawford) Subject: Re: 10-month-old-babies...... Here's an answer to Julian Parry's question number 3: > (3) I thought AB's wife was called Margaret, not Martha. Have I missed > something? New wife (I think), whom apparently he met while on tour with David Bowie for the Sound and Vision thing, and guess what the date was ... yep, May 1, 1990. (This I think I'm remembering correctly from the Mike Keneally interview a few months back). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____ ~ /\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James' World ~ \_. `\/\~/ /_ \_ "AND NOW FOR THE ICEPICK TO THE FOREHEAD Canada's _____,> _|\___> \_ ... a million laughs ..." Lotion ~,' N.S. __/ ~ \_ [Zappa, Joe's Garage] Playground |___,---' ~ james m. crawford: jmc at sdr dot utias dot utoronto dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 13:33:32 -0500 From: Glenn Astarita Subject: Red again ? Hi, Just imagine if the original "Red" trio was the latest flavor of KC ? Now don't get me wrong I'm perfectly satisfied with the current lineup. Just trying to visualize in my head what the sound would be like... What would they sound like ? Lets say Wetton, Fripp and Bruford were rehearsing all this time ? Would Wetton's pop sensibilities take a dominant role ? Maybe in a similar vein to Belew ? Would us KC fans be equally excited as most of us are at present ? Finally, would they be less commercially viable or more? I know Fripp wouldn't let KC turn into Asia, but you may get my drift.... Just having a little fun here... Glenn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 11:41:09 -0700 From: tcona at ix dot netcom dot com (Anthony J. Cona,Jr.) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #201 To all Adrian Belew fans: I have an interview I and a friend did with Adrian Belew in May of 1990,during his venture with David Bowie(Sound and Vision Tour),in which he tells his whole musical career history in his own words.It is a very revealing interview in which he tells of his discovery by Frank Zappa,and his stints with David Bowie,Talking Heads,King Crimson(find out how they really got together),the Bears,and his various solo projects.It is a must for all Adrian Belew fans.I'll make this available to any one that wants a copy.Just send a 90min blank cassette and $1.00 (to cover my postage costs) to: Tony Cona 506 N. Sterling Ave Tampa,Fl 33609 If you want more information about this interview contact me via E-Mail tcona at ix dot netcom dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 14:35:34 -0500 From: jmshephe at softart dot com (Jim Shepherd) Subject: Redux: Marine 475 >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 08:53:24 EDT >From: Robert Bruce >Subject: Re: Marine 475 > snip! >aglwsa1 at peabody dot sct dot ucarb dot com (Gary L. Wright) wrote: > snipped to conserve bandwidth. > >It would be fairly easy for someone currently working at Lloyds to find out >the significance of the syndicates listed in the song--the "Blue Book" >would show whether Robert or Adrian are "names" on the listed >syndicates--but my feeling is that they are probably syndicates that have >gone under in the recent scandals, or have been hit by catastrophic >losses. Can anyone shed any further light? After having read the concert program, in which RF goes into some detail about his unfortunate experiences with EG in latter times, I would surmise that the inclusion of this material relates directly to the finacial woes of the principals of EG records who sold off the the catalogs to Virgin and BMG. As these gentlemen where (are?) all Lloyds "names". One could interpret it's inclusion as a slam, but this may not necessarily be the case. It is difficult for me to imagine musicians (any musicians) underwriting insurance... JS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- "I thougth I had a terrible case of mono, then I realized I hadn't had any coffee yet." -- Scott Adams Jim Shepherd Phone: 317.843.1663 Software Artistry, Inc. Fax: 317.574.5867 9449 Priority Way West Drive Voice Mail: 317.574.5856 ext. 1221 Indianapolis, IN 46240 Internet: jmshephe at softart dot com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 23 Jun 95 15:24:06 EDT From: "Neil J. Cavanagh" <76111 dot 3636 at compuserve dot com> Subject: hypotheses hmmm...on the '73 tour people were yelling for 'Court' and 'Cat food.' ...on the '80 tour people yelled for 'Starless' and 'Lament.' ...and on this tour, i heard people yelling for 'Sartori.' i guess KC just moves too fast for its audience...VROOOM! (the secret word is surrender) Another meaningless hypothesis for KC fans: Thrak is (but isn't) Larks' IV. why? take a look: song-------------intro/build-up--------entrance-------------- larks II Talking Drum slashing guitar chords larks III No Warning slashing guitar chords (esp.'84 live segue) Thrak(larks IV) B'boom slashing guitar chords I know what Fripp said about Larks' IV on Compuserve; I would like to point out these similiarities anyway. Someone else pointed out Hendrix influence on THRAK; IMO Fripp and Belew are two of the few guitarits today who are really carrying the Jimi torch, not by recycling his licks, but following the spirit of invention and creative thinking. NJC [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Adrian Belew Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 15:34:44 -0400 From: "Lee S. Kilpatrick" (Mr. Breeze) There is a new album out which is a tribute to Harry Nilsson (Is this spelled right? Perhaps my spelling of his name is not a tribute to him.) Like other tribute albums, it consists of his songs covered by other artists. Adrian Belew does a song, though I can't recall its name or the name of the album. Adrian Belew's first (?) wife was named Margaret. His current wife is Martha. There is a song on his most recent album called something like "July 1, 1993" which I think refers to the day he met Martha, or perhaps it is the day they were married. There were songs on his previous album that could refer to his split with Margaret, such as "The War In The Gulf Between Us". Lee [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 15:51:20 -0400 From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) Subject: trey gunn i was considering purchasing Trey Gunn' 1000 Years and i was wondering if anyone had any comments on the album itself. So far i've heard that it is very Frippertronic and relies heavily on overdubbing. well it's goodbye. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 16:12:01 -0400 From: LUCIUS23 at aol dot com Subject: Re: #1(3) Elephant-talk digest v95 #201 In response to the KC-Primus connection: Les Claypool has has listed KC as major influence for years. In an interview a few years back he said his first band, Primate, was "alot like King Crimson, nobody understood what we were doing." At Primus' New Years Eve show 93-94, They played an an instrumental version of Thela Hun Ginjeet during the midnight ballon drop. And they played it qextremely well. For those of you who are also Residents fans, you'll find a lot of their influence in Primus' music, too. Tales from the Punch Bowl is deffinately worth checking out, but be forewarned that this is KC filtered through Bugs Bunny. Not for the humorless! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 18:00:31 -0300 (C) From: SIMONOTTI at tandar dot cnea dot edu dot ar Subject: Number of ET subscribers = Number of Crimson fans? Hello, I am not willing to turn this into any sort of argument but does it necesarilly follows from the numbers of ET subscribers that argentinian Crimson fans are ten times less numerous than australian C.f.? I understand your impatience but not your implied derision. Fernando Simonotti [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Craig Dickson Subject: Re: Youngest KC concert attendee Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 15:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Beth Ustas Spellman writes: |Well, I think I may have the youngest KC attendee... | |I was at the Boston show 7.5 months pregnant, I think that is probably |going to be hard to beat (unless you don't count babies until they are |born!). If we are going to count unborn children, then I (or rather my wife) will break your record at KC's concert this Sunday in San Francisco. My wife is four and a half months pregnant. Robert Bruce writes: |Every Syndicate trading |at Lloyds has a number, and is generally referred to by that number and the |type of business it principally conducts--so that Marine 475 would be a |syndicate writing Marine insurance. | |It would be fairly easy for someone currently working at Lloyds to find out |the significance of the syndicates listed in the song--the "Blue Book" |would show whether Robert or Adrian are "names" on the listed |syndicates--but my feeling is that they are probably syndicates that have |gone under in the recent scandals, or have been hit by catastrophic |losses. Can anyone shed any further light? Fripp mentioned in the booklet accompanying The Great Deceiver (I think that was where I read this) that EG, who until 1992 were his business managers, were severely hurt financially by their investments in Lloyd's because of a string of catastrophes requiring colossal insurance settlements, including the bombing of Pan Am 103, various hurricanes, etc. I imagine the syndicates mentioned in "Marine 475" were those in which EG had an interest. "BARRIE SILLARS" writes: |Maybe all this has been discussed before, but anyway the point I am trying |to make, in a round about way is that "USA" SHOULD be released on CD, if |only for this improvisation and preferably without the fade-out. Of course |it goes without saying that "USA" has the added bonus of "Asbury Park". Isn't "Asbury Park" on Disc 4 of the Frame By Frame box set? Craig [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: terry weaver Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 13:53:07 -700 Subject: Concert Goodies I am looking for some help. Did anyone think to keep their concert merchandise pamphlet? I would like an address to contact them. I need a VROOOM hat. Thanx, Terry [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 24 Jun 1995 09:03:04 -0400 From: BSDickinso at aol dot com Subject: June 12th Kalamazoo Gig and Lobotomy Candidates Greetings to all. A quick note to say that the K-zoo Michigan KC show was a knockout! I won't get into all of the details as most posts abound with them (and my short-term memory isn't the greatest), but wanted to publicly flog a pair of nameless individuals who demonstrated their ignorance for all. I will refer to this pair of humanoids as BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD. The long and short of it is that when they observed Robert Fripp sitting off center stage, no spotlight on him, they took every opportunity to yell inane requests to PUT THE FU__ING LIGHT ON FRIPP!. How do folks like this get tickets??? It reinforced some of the posts that I have read here (that people can be incredibly small). The rest of the folks at this BEAUTIFUL venue had the utmost respect for Mr. Fripp and the band. What a pleasure this show was: energy, virtuosity and intelligence......ahhhhh....... Point of interest: I went to the REM show in Detroit the week before (someone's date could'nt make it, so I got the ticket) and as I suspected, most other performances are FLACCID in comparison. REM punched the clock, came on stage, did their perfunctory doings and left promptly at 11:00pm. While I enjoy some of their older material, I wouldn't walk next door to see them again. IMHO. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Scott T Anderson Subject: More thoughts on KC in Minneapolis Date: Sat, 24 Jun 1995 16:04:24 (CDT) Thanks to those ET readers who helped me to realize that that strange thing Trey Gunn was playing was a Warr guitar and not a grand stick. Here are some more random comments as I think of them... Fripp's guitar synth freaked me out, especially when he ripped through a pseudo-Hammond organ solo on "Thrak," and when he played the solo from "Elephant Talk" on pseudo-vibraphone. As others have said, Fripp was too quiet in the mix vs. Belew--often, in the few times Fripp soloed, he was swallowed by Adrian's rhythm guitar pads. Trey Gunn--couldn't hear him, but it looked like what he was playing was quite impressive. I wish he'd have been audible. Mastelotto and Bruford--not to pick on anybody, but I think Phil Collins and Chester Thompson have been put in their place. Tony Levin--I love this guy! Awesome player, and fun to watch too. Adrian--I wasn't really happy with him. He played and sang well, but seemed to lack the energy I saw in the Three of a Perfect Pair video. Besides this, he hogged both the spotlight and the sound system. Overall, this was the concert of a lifetime. In '93 I saw ELP and was impressed. In '94 I saw Phish and was stunned. Nothing will top this, except KC in '96. I've been pondering the enigma of Fripp for some time. I've read most of Eric Tamm's book, I've read everything Fripp himself has written that I've been able to get my hands on. I regret his desire to be so distant and elusive when he has so much to share with the world. Any comments? Also, can anybody get me the CDs of "Damage"? Scott T. Anderson sanderso at gac dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 24 Jun 1995 21:13:36 -0400 From: Frippelew at aol dot com Subject: Re: #3(3) Elephant-talk digest v95 #201 I just wanted to add that I saw Adrian on his solo tour at Universal Studios Florida where he performed with some students from a music/film/video production school called Full Sail. I also got a copy of "The Acoustic Adrian Belew" there for $15 and have since seen copies at used CD stores, so you guys that are interested might want to check that out. I also heard that he mixed part of his '94 album "Here" at the Full Sail facility. The concert I saw was great. AB played a lot of stuff off of "Inner Revolution" and some from "Here" as well as "Heartbeat" and the awesome "Adidas In Heat" as a tribute to Frank Zappa, who had passed away only a few days before. Waiting for Fall Crimson dates! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 24 Jun 95 23:08:06 PDT From: dwight at pentasoft dot com Subject: KC Seattle and The Music of Awakening It's been two days since I saw KC in Seattle, and enough of my self is back in place that I can think clearly about it and try to put it in a frame. I had listened only to "Thrak", "One Thousand Years" and "World Diary" prior to attending the concert. I knew nothing of Belew or Buford. It was my maiden voyage into red discipline, so to speak. I managed to get all of Fripp's _Guitar Player_ articles on "Guitar Craft" from 1989-1990 and read through them prior to the concert. They are an introduction to mindfulness (in the buddhist sense) disguised as pop guitar articles. Gurdjieff meets Zappa. Given this preparation, it is a bit revealing that it still took me until the second encore to have a clue as to what was going on on the astounding stage in front of me. I think KC plays music as a tool for mindfulness. It sounds like music, but the repetition and predictability of most music is absent. Instead, the rhythms and chord changes and textures have the same effect as a zen koan on the mind: to understand, it must let go. And then there is no understanding at all, in the moment when all is understood. I have experienced that in various situations before, often after much work which must then be let go of -- but never before at a rock concert. Given Fripp's writings, I doubt the effect is coincidental. Does anyone know if the Guitar Craft courses are still being given? How do I sign up? I want in. Take care -- Dwight [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: OLIVER at slais dot ubc dot ca Organization: SLAIS, UBC Date: 23 Jun 95 18:13:20 GM+5 Subject: GIG REVIEW: Vancouver Most of the reviews posted thus far have been fairly similar, so I'll just stick to a few points. One observation I would make is that I actually kind of regret reading about earlier shows in Elephant Talk, as the band's set held no surprises for me on the night. Maybe people should think about this before they post indepth reviews, or more to the point people should be aware of this before they *read* a review. Having said that I'll hypocritically add that KC's set in Vancouver was identical to that in other shows: most of THRAK, side 1 of Discipline, and a handful of 70's instrumentals (Red, Larks Tongues II and Talking Drum). I was perplexed by Fripp's invisibility and as someone said about a different show, he seemed rather low in the mix. For example, his solo in Elephant Talk was drowned out by Adrian's chording. And I too found it hard to tell what Trey Gunn was playing most of the time, though it was obvious that he spends as much time doing guitar and guitar synth parts as "bass" playing. The twin drumming was fantastic (I went with a drummer whose jaw spent the whole concert on the floor) and Levin was in particularly good form. Finally, for all you frustrated musicians out there, I offer some hope. Belew actually made some *mistakes*! He got lost at one point during VROOOM when Bruford and Mastelotto unleashed a particularly odd flurry of fills, and spent at least 16 bars trying to pick up the riff again. And he scrambled the Elephant Talk lyrics quite frequently, perhaps in tribute to John Lennon's confused live versions of "Come Together." So fear not; even Crimson members fuck up. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]