From toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Thu Jun 18 09:15:37 1992 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 91 11:58:51 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: Discipline #2 Discipline, Number 2 Tuesday, 20 August 1991 6 Topics Today: Future projects/bootlegs Discography Re: Fripp discography review of LOCG another review of LOCG another discography ************************************************************ Hi, just to get the ball rolling a bit, I've appended some stuff I grabbed off the net ages ago. Would someone like to make a start on creating (and maintaining!) a definitive discography, based on the two here? Toby ************************************************************ Return-Path: Date: Mon, 19 Aug 91 12:45:04 PDT From: malcolm%yuba%wrs at uunet dot UU dot net (Malcom Humes) To: toby%cs dot man dot ac dot uk%uunet at uunet dot UU dot net Subject: Future projects/bootlegs Sender: malcolm%yuba%wrs at uunet dot uu dot net RE: >From: Brian Patrick Arnold > Prior to this, somebody said >that MTV reported Fripp as saying Crimson will re-form in the fall. All >this is insubstantiated rumor. Have you heard anything to this effect, I have a friend who told me he'd heard on MTV that Crimson was getting back together with David Sylvain replacing Belew. He heard this a few months ago. More recently I heard on the Net that Fripp was stopping the Guitar Craft classes and would get into another music project soon. Also, recently on the Net News I saw someone with a sig that had a quote >from Fripp dated within the last month or so, which I would paraphrase or recall as saying "King Crimson never has been past tense" or something to that effect which suggested that Fripp doesn't consider Crimson dead yet. RE: BOOTLEGS & LIVE TAPES On other another Fripp topic: I have the text of the infamous Downbeat article by Fripp on bootlegging that someone had recently posted on the Net in the rec.music.gdead area. If anyone wants me to post it to the Mailing list, just ask. It is long, and quite interesting if you've never read it. It probably belongs as a response to a Fripp FAQ: Why is Fripp so uptight about bootlegs and live recordings? Personally, while I respect his opinions, some of the most interesting Fripp I've ever heard has been on live tapes or boots. Older Crimson's improvisational skills were only partly represented on their lps, and there were some great moments that never got released. I think in part Fripp is uptight about his past, and about people hearing his do something less than perfect. I thought it was interesting to see the bootleging article posted in a Grateful dead board because I've always thought that the Dead and Fripp represented two polar opposites of opinion on this. And I think the Dead have realized a wider audience through encouraging people to tape and trade their music. When's the last time you saw a Dead bootleg for sale in a store? I've never heard of one. I think that people who buy bootlegs generally already have bought all of an artists offical releases that they can find and thus aren't really depriving the artist of income, they are just hungry for more product than they can find. Fripp makes some good points in his article, but I think on the level of fans enjoying the music and trading it, it's not economically depriving the artists or harming them significantly. Since I haven't paid anything for any of the Crimson/Fripp live tapes I have I don't think they've hurt him in any way. -Malcolm (malcolm at wrs dot com) -------------------------------------------------- Article 19252 of rec.music.misc: Path: mucs!ukc!mcsun!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!hplabs!hpfcso!hpfcmgw!jims From: jims at hpfcmgw dot HP dot COM (Jim Sheppard) Newsgroups: rec.music.misc Subject: Fripp discography Message-ID: <1490100 at hpfcmgw dot HP dot COM> Date: 7 Mar 90 23:41:34 GMT References: <2608 at leah dot Albany dot Edu> Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO Lines: 103 The following Fripp discography is mostly from _The Rock Record_ which is up to date through about 1983/4. It does have occasional errors and omissions and it only includes albums, no singles or EP's. I didn't check it for the King Crimson titles 'cuz I thought I could do them from memory (we'll see!). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ROBERT FRIPP DISCOGRAPHY Part I - Fripp is a leader or equal contributor: Giles, Giles & Fripp - The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King - In the Wake of Poseidon - Lizard - Islands - Larks' Tongues in Aspic - Starless & Bible Black - Red - USA - Earthbound - A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson - Discipline - Beat - Three of a Perfect Pair - The Compact King Crimson - Frejus 1983: The Noise (videotape) (probably not the exact title; got it at home) - Three of a Perfect Pair Live in Japan (videotape/laserdisc) Fripp - Exposure - God Save the Queen / Under Heavy Manners - Frippertronics / Let the Power Fall (there's a CD just called _Let the Power Fall_) Fripp & Eno - No Pussyfootin' - Evening Star Fripp | League of Gentlemen - God Save the King (this is a CD title; someone (Larry Spence?) explained a while back that this an edited version of the _God Save the Queen ..._ and _League of Gentlemen_ albums, I think) Fripp & the League of Crafty Guitarists - Live! Fripp & Andy Summers - I Advanced Masked - Bewitched Fripp & Toyah - The Lady or the Tiger League of Gentlemen - League of Gentlemen Part II - Fripp is a sideman or guest, usually only on a few tracks Blondie - Parallel Lines David Bowie - Heroes - Scary Monsters - Rare (1983, RCA PL 45406) Brian Eno - Here Come the Warm Jets - Another Green World - Before and After Science - Music for Films Flying Lizards - Fourth Wall (1981, Virgin V 2190 (England)) Peter Gabriel - Peter Gabriel (1977, Atco 36147) - Peter Gabriel (1978, Atlantic 19181; _Gabriel II_?) - Peter Gabriel (1980, Mercury 3848; _Gabriel III_?) Daryl Hall - Sacred Songs Hall & Oates - Along the Red Ledge Peter Hammill - Fools Mate The Roches - The Roches - Keep on Doing Colin Scot - Colin Scott with Friends (1971, UA UAG 29154) Walter Steding - Walter Steding (1980, Red Star 101) Talking Heads - Fear of Music Van der Graaf Generator - H to He - Pawn Hearts These Toyah CD's are listed in _CD International_. Fripp may play on some of these albums (no US release on these; all labels are for the British releases): Toyah - Anthem (Safari VOORCD-1) - Desire (E'G EGCD-71) - Minx (CBS CD-26415) - Prostitute (Edition EG EEGCD-59) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article 19338 of rec.music.misc: Path: mucs!ukc!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!rpi!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!uhnix1!texbell!texsun!csccat!larry From: larry at csccat dot UUCP (Larry Spence) Newsgroups: rec.music.misc Subject: Re: Fripp discography Message-ID: <3625 at csccat dot UUCP> Date: 9 Mar 90 22:36:38 GMT References: <2608 at leah dot Albany dot Edu> <1490100 at hpfcmgw dot HP dot COM> Reply-To: larry at csccat dot UUCP (Larry Spence) Organization: Computer Support Corporation. Dallas,Texas Lines: 28 In article <1490100 at hpfcmgw dot HP dot COM> jims at hpfcmgw dot HP dot COM (Jim Sheppard) writes: > - Frejus 1983: The Noise (videotape) ^^^^ It's 1982, I think. > Fripp & Eno - No Pussyfootin' No Pussyfooting. > Fripp | League of Gentlemen - God Save the King > (this is a CD title; someone (Larry Spence?) explained a > while back that this an edited version of the _God Save > the Queen ..._ and _League of Gentlemen_ albums, I think) Edited and remixed, fairly drastically in places. >Part II - Fripp is a sideman or guest, usually only on a few tracks Add the David Sylvian "Gone to Earth" album, and he's on some other Sylvian, too, but I can't remember which. You mentioned a Bowie album called "Rare" (1983, RCA) -- what's that? -- Larry Spence larry@csccat ...{texbell,texsun}!csccat!larry ------------------------------------------------------------ From: larry at csccat dot cs dot com (Larry Spence) Subject: REVIEW: Fripp & Crafties, Arcadia Theater, Dallas 11/5 (LONG) Date: 6 Nov 90 23:07:29 GMT Reply-To: larry at csccat dot cs dot com (Larry Spence) Organization: Computer Support Corporation. Dallas,Texas There have already been several reviews posted for recent Fripp shows, so I'll just add a few details. The show was at the Arcadia Theater, capacity 897, and I'd estimate the crowd numbered around 500-600. Very interesting crowd, lots of hard-core Fripp/ Crimso fans. many from waaay back. Our seats were dead-center, second row. At 8:35, the Crafties' "roadie" took the stage and made the usual "no cameras, no tapes, no smoking" announcement. At about 8:45, a door in the "pit" between the front row and the stage opened and Fripp & Co. emerged. They made a full circuit of the theater, finally returning to their seats on stage. Fripp pulled a tuning fork out from _between_his_legs_ (I'm sure that there's a story here!), tapped it on his knee, and held it to his Ovation guitar. I noticed that the PA setup was very small, two JBL cabinets on each side of the stage, and two EV monitors behind the guitarists. I didn't expect it to be very loud. Wrong! The Crafties (10 plus Fripp and the female vocalist) paused very dramatically and then started to play. The volume, clarity, and intensity of the sound from the PA was perfect! Fripp was seated at far right, turned toward the group so that you could never really see his playing except in profile. It was clear who the "senior" Crafties were: a tall, blond guy in the center chair (played many of the more difficult "solos" and a lot of high-register stuff), the two leftmost players (often played absolutely perfect unison parts and some interlocking parts), and the guy next to Fripp (who I suspect might have been Trey Gunn -- he played a lot of rhythmic figures, chunkier sounding bits on the low strings). There was also an Oriental guy who got a lot of parts. But everyone had a key role at some point or another. There was a lot of material played that I didn't recognize. They did play what I'm fairly sure was "Larks Tongues Part IV," (the intro was nearly the same as Part III on the last Crimso album), and another that may have been "Fracture Part II." There were also some of the "GC Theme" numbers. The Crafties did the "circulation" technique, where notes are passed from one guitarist to the next, several times during the show. Each guitarist would turn and look at the next (counterclockwise around the semicircle), and Fripp would intently watch the opposite guitarist to see when the run had gone all the way around. The execution of this was really polished. The sound was in stereo, so it sounded like one big guitar being slowly appegi- ated. A variation on this had the circulation speeding up gradually, which doubtless made it even more difficult to play. Very impressive. One of the cool things about the show was the use of silence and pauses. There would be a brief pause between songs, during which time my eyes were completely riveted, waiting for the first note. Fripp & Co. seemed to very carefully gauge the exact moment when they would begin. A couple of times, an asshole would dive into the silence and yell "Whooooo!!!" after which Fripp would make no reaction, simply waiting until dead silence appeared. On one or two occasions, Fripp counted into a song, in a rather jaunty sort of way that I thought was funny (hey, it's that Dorset accent!). During the instrumentals, the roadie and the female vocalist sat to the right of Fripp and the left of the leftmost guitarist respectively (outside of the semicircle). I noticed that both were sitting in the same posture, forearms on legs with both hands open and palm up. At no time did the vocalist depart >from this pose. In fact, all the Crafties had absolutely perfect posture, sitting on backless folding stools with a block of foam rubber or something on each. But no one looked restrained or uncomfortable. The vocalist (what is this person's NAME?) was stunning. Her style reminded me very much of the Roches, with an added ability to drop from a high note to a _very_ low note instantly. She came to the mic after every three or four numbers, and sang for perhaps a minute or two each time. Some of the singing involved lyrics (very interesting, everything from "God's sorrow" to "shit happens"), other parts emulated the Crafties' percolating interlocking guitar work. She could sing interlocking high/low parts effortlessly: "Boo beeDAHdoodooDEEdooBAHdooEEdoodooEEdoodooDAHHHH..." %) At the conclusion of each vocal number, she would stand at the mic for a few seconds, looking intently at the audience. Several of us locked eyes with her for a few seconds, and we later agreed that it was almost hypnotic. Then, at just the right moment, she would abruptly turn and walk back to her seat. Lest I give the wrong impression, she was smiling, beaming almost, the whole time she sang and during the intense pauses. The crowd loved it. I should mention that although much of the show consisted of the delicate, interlocking guitar lines, there were a few times when the entire group would play _massive_, minor chords super-marcato at full volume (e.g., the start of "Larks Tongues IV"). The timing was incredibly well-rehearsed -- there would be a giant 11-guitarist chord, and a split-second pause in which the chord resonated through the hall, followed by another giant slab of chord. The contrast with the lighter-sounding stuff was just great. The Crafty I spoke to a few years ago said that during the "heavy" parts, they would typically feel a huge surge of energy, as if they were going to lift up off the stage. Well, I can see why! These segments probably came closest to a Crimso level of energy. But the rest of the show certainly didn't lack for intensity, not necessarily the same thing as raw energy. I would like to hear from other netters who have seen this show, regarding the length of the performance. Although the theater was only 2/3 full or less, the crowd response was so great that the group came back for _several_ encores -- I literally lost count of how many times! I know Fripp doesn't do four (?) encores as a habit, so I think it's safe to say that this was an unusually good show. For one of the encores, the Crafties marched up the side aisle and into the lobby/bar, where they played an unplugged version of "Calliope" from the "Get Crafty I" tape. This seemed to be partly for the benefit of people who had seats in the back -- we were down in front, and the aisle back to the bar was jammed, so half the audience was looking out the exit toward the bar, going "what're they doing? what're they doing??" They finally came back and played another encore and then went backstage. But the audience kept clapping for a long time. After several minutes of applause, we started to leave. Maybe half the audience was in the aisles, heading for the door, when the group came back on stage! I've never seen so many people running for their seats... it was really funny. One of the last encore numbers was a sort of swing-jazz number that seemed like "time to loosen up the collar and have fun" compared to the more formal stuff earlier. When they finished, Fripp _smiled_ and kind of bobbed his head and tilted his hand back and forth at waist level as if to say, "Ahhh... ok, not bad." Since Fripp hadn't been excatly expressive prior to this, everyone cracked up. The very last number, two full hours after the start of the show, appeared completely improvised, as Fripp was nodding to various Crafties to take parts, and all of them were.... smiling! As were the rest of us.... %) OK, enough foaming at the mouth. As you can tell, I thought this was a great show! Hey, when Fripp walked down the aisle past me, I nodded at him and he nodded back, so maybe the guy is mellowing in his old age. %) There was lots of GC literature and promo stuff for sale in the lobby, includ- ing "The Act of Music," wherein Fripp blasts American audiences, talks about MTV, the craft and the business of music, and a lot more. Allegedly, the Crafties are going to release an album of their current repertoire, but no release date was mentioned. -- Larry Spence larry at csccat dot cs dot com ...{uunet,texsun,cs.utexas.edu,decwrl}!csccat!larry ------------------------------------------------------------ Article 22354 of rec.music.misc: Path: mucs!ukc!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ucsd!ames!pacbell!att!cbnewsc!rjp1 From: rjp1 at cbnewsc dot att dot com (presently...) Newsgroups: rec.music.misc Subject: another review of LOCG Message-ID: <1990May8 dot 202338 dot 9435 at cbnewsc dot att dot com> Date: 8 May 90 20:23:38 GMT References: <4824 at daffy dot cs dot wisc dot edu> Organization: ...some other place Lines: 67 Michael Lee writes: > I saw Robert Fripp and the League of Crafty Guitarists tonight, and oh boy > the show was great! A few problems with the show, but overall it proved that > yes, Robert Fripp is great live. I've never seen him live, though I had > seen the League without Fripp last fall. The atmosphere was almost religous Yes, I too saw this show in Madison Wisconsin (5/6). It was the first gig of their current tour. The problem Robert seemed to be having was with his cord or the pickup on his guitar? He only had to stop one song (which was started over) and the other couple of times, he just didn't play his part. I could "hear" (or is that not-hear?) the missing notes! It was a great show overall. Each Crafty (and Robert) when not playing, would sit in a state of attention. Just sitting there quietly, focused, and waiting for their next part to come up. > Interesting Crimson points -- they do parts of Lark's Tongues in Aspic, and > in one of the songs, the League borrows a Belew trademark -- they bend the > neck of the guitar! Nope, it was not parts of Lark's Tongue at all. Most of the songs they played can be found on the Get Crafty tape, which was being "hawked" out front in the lobby of the theater. They did do some nice chord work which could be compared to the style of Lark's Tongue. It was impressive to say the least. On bending the neck of their guitars, well, I doubt that they had Adrian Belew in mind when doing that! They did it becase they are part of a 3 year course in the Guitar Craft studies. They must prove or demonstrate mastery over their instrument. Part of this course includes live performances, hence the tour. The theater was not even halfway full, but the audience sure let them know that they liked what they heard. We were able to coax them out for two encores. > One thing that was a little questionable was the addition of a femal vocalist > inbetween various crafty sections -- she didn't ever actually sing with the > guitars, so she seemed out of place, in my mind. Some of the lyrics were > quite funny though. Robert introduced her as the vocal part of the show. She sat just behind the guitarists on the left hand side of the stage, in a state of attention, and only got up and walked to the microphone when it was time for her to sing. She sang unaccompanied, which is a feat in itself, however, a couple of times just before she sang someone quietly hit a note for her to "tune" in on. I thought she was great. The lyrics were a little strange, but, that's what I expected. When finished, she simply returned to her seat and became entranced again. > The way he read this [article from newspaper] > was absolutely hysterical. The way he carries himself is very english -- he > both appears to be modest, but you know that really, deep down inside, he has > the ego of Jupiter, at least. You don't know him at all do you? He was having a great time up there, and I imagine that he got a big kick (ie, thought it was very funny) out of that little article, the writer of which had completely missed the point about what Robert and the Crafties were doing. I was there with my sisters who knew several of the people on stage and we got a chance to talk about the concert with a few of them afterwards. Interesting to say the least. No news though, worthy of repeating here. They played in Milwaukee on 5/6, and will be in Chicago on 5/9, and in Cincinnati on 5/12 (I think?). Somewhere in all of this, they will also put in an appearance in Minneapolis. I don't have all of the dates though. -- -- rj pietkivitch att!ihlpa!rjp1 ------------------------------------------------------------ Article 26775 of rec.music.misc: From: billp at pandora dot bellcore dot com (25187-W Puig(1305)m000) Subject: another discography Date: 18 Aug 90 15:18:20 GMT Sender: news at bellcore dot bellcore dot com Organization: Bellcore Provisioning Systems Lab, Piscataway, NJ Eno's been involved in so many diverse projects, I can't put together a discography anywhere near complete. But I think the following for Fripp is close: Fripp with King Crimson: In the Court of the Crimson King (1969) In the Wake of Poseidon (1970) Cat Food/Groon (45 rpm single) (1970; British pressing) Lizard (1971) Islands (1972) Earthbound (1972; British pressing) Larks' Tongues in Aspic (1973) Starless and Bible Black (1974) The Night Watch (45 rpm single edited from LP version on "Starless ...") (1974) Red (1974) USA (1975) The Young Person's Guide to King Crimson (1976; greatest hits w/ previously unreleased tracks) Discipline (1981) Beat (1982) Three of a Perfect Pair (1984) Sleepless (12" mix of a track from "Three of ...") (1984) The Compact King Crimson (1986; more greatest hits) Fripp with other artists: The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp (1968; with Michael and Peter Giles) No Pussyfooting (1973; with Eno) Evening Star (1975, I think; with Eno) The League of Gentlemen (1980; with Barry Andrews and others) I Advance Masked (1982; with Andy Summers) What Kind of Man Reads Playboy? (1984; with Andy Summers) [Not sure if this title is right; someone correct me if it isn't] Robert Fripp and the League of Crafty Guitarists Live (1986) The Lady or the Tiger? (1986; with Toyah and the Crafties) Get Crafty I (1988; with the Crafties) Fripp solo: Exposure (1978) God Save the Queen/Under Heavy Manners (1979) Let the Power Fall (1981) Fripp as session man: Shy Limbs - Love (45 rpm single) Van de Graff Generator - H to He, Who Am The Only One Van de Graff Generator - Pawn Hearts Peter Hammill - Fool's Mate Colin Scott - Colin Scott Bryan Ferry - As the World Turns (single) Charlie Drake - You Never Know (single) Eno - Here Come the Warm Jets (Baby's on Fire, Driving Me Backwards, Blank Frank) Eno - Another Green World Eno - Before and After Science (King's Lead Hat) Eno - Music for Films Peter Gabriel - first and second albums David Bowie - Heroes David Bowie - Scary Monsters (It's No Game, Fashion) Daryl Hall - Sacred Songs Daryl Hall & John Oates - Along the Red Ledge (Blame It on Love) Blondie - Parallel Lines (Fade Away and Radiate) Blondie - Heroes (12" single) The Roches - The Roches (Hammond Song) Walter Stedding - Hound Dog (single) I've undoubtedly missed a few, and one or two of the above probably need correction, but this should be pretty accurate overall. Please e-mail any changes; I'll repost an edited version later if necessary. ---+--- Bill "It is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve the aim {bellcore!}pyuxd!billp without suffering ..." -- R.F.