From elephant-talk at arastar dot comMon Jun 5 08:03:25 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 23:35:01 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #195 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 195, Friday, 2 June 1995 Today's Topics: MISC: Fripp MISC: any word? MISC: Pretentious nonsense or wisdom? MISC: ET contribution MISC: ELO/what to do while Crimso plays MISC: Re: REVIEW: _Dinosaur_ MISC: Transcription of Schizoid Man available. MISC: On the road again! MISC: KC in Emmanuel (!) MISC: ET #193 DISCOG: March for No Reason MISC: Red when? MISC: Crimson Live Sound Sux? LYRICS: Discipline Lyrics MISC: Guitar Player July 1995 MISC: Jamie Muir before KC MISC: Inactive Fripp MISC: Which One's the King?? MISC: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #194 REVIEW: World Diary CONCERT: solo Fripp in September MISC: looking for ride from NYC to NJ 6/6 MISC: from the XTC List MISC: First posting MISC: KC boxes and videos MISC: KC in The New Yorker GIG REVIEW: A summary of the Buffalo KC concert. GIG REVIEW: King Crimson in Toronto -- May 27th, 1995 TICKETS: KC ticket for sale, NYC, Jun 3rd TICKETS: LA Tickets for the 30th TICKETS: Washington, DC TICKETS: WANTED for SF show. TICKETS: request NJ TICKETS: King Crimson ticket for sale [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Hi everyone. Just a note about some problems we've recently had with ET: my system suffered an email outage for a few days, coupled with the loss of our Web server. The email's fixed, but the Web server only partially. There seem to be some missing ET files, so please bear with us on this. Additionally, Ken Bibb, our Americas distributor, has been away, and we have a little backlog of sub/unsub requests to fulfil. Please bear with us on that one too. Thanks Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 11:15:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Edmunds Subject: MISC: Fripp Organization: Penn State University / University Libraries In response to Tom Keekley's comments about Fripp: "Why does he just sit there and act disinterested?" and "I thought there was a difference between being eccentric and being boring?!?" This is probably gonna date me, but here's my two cents. If one wants to see oddly dressed individuals with clever hairdos and spider-shaped fluorescent guitars jump about amidst fake fog and miniature explosions, King Crimson is not the band to see. In fact, King Crimson is not a band to *see* period. King Crimson is about Music. Go *hear* them. Of my 31+ years on this planet, approximately 60-75 minutes has been spent in personal one-on-one interaction with Fripp. One of the least boring humans I've ever met. Trust me. Jeff Edmunds jhe at psulias dot psu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 03:35:20 -0600 (CST) From: Z4K42 at ttacs dot ttu dot edu Subject: MISC: any word? OK. I have been reading all the spoilers, and I can't take it anymore. Is qthere any word about the dates that are to come for the southern US. If I don't get to see these people, I will be very upset. Scott [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 31 May 95 16:03:25 -0700 From: fred at d2 dot com (Fred Raimondi) Subject: MISC: Pretentious nonsense or wisdom? Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 16:03:20 GMT From: mike at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: MISC : Lineup Complaints and Vampires >From Mark Clements (mpc at mbsmm dot com) > As I'm sure everyone is aware, King Crimson does not make music for us. > They make music for the only reward a musician receives: "the privilege > of standing in the presence of music when it leans over and takes us > into its confidence". >>Sorry Mark, but you're swallowing far too much of the pretentious nonsense >>Fripp has been spouting for the last twenty years or so. He makes music to >>earn a living, just like every other professional musician. A great >>musician he might be, but he's in it for the money. In reply to Mike's comments about Robert: While its true that to be an artist without paying attention to commerce is a ridiculous concept in itself, I would HARDLY say that Robert is in "it" for the money. Having been a crafty, he has a higher regard for the artform than any artist I have ever met. Yes, commerce IS important, and the MOST successful artists are capable of striking that delicate balance of commerce AND art without making a comprimise. One MUST put food on the table. As for Robert's "pretentious nonsense", listen closely. Much of what Robert has to say is much like the music he creates. It takes some EFFORT to understand, and maybe wont be realized on the first listening. There may be concepts you agree with, and those you don't, but isn't that part of the attraction? If you'd rather be spoonfed the same stuff that everyone else is eating (listening in this case) maybe you should try a different flavor. As for my experience, much of what Robert has passed along has affected my life in many positive ways. Both professsionally AND personally. Listen. Best Regards Fred ############################################################################# # Fred Raimondi 310 314 2809 Office "It is impossible # # Digital Domain 213 917 5193 Pager to achieve the aim # # 300 Rose Ave fred at d2 dot com without suffering" # # Venice, CA 90291 #################################################### ############################################################################# [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 20:50:27 -0500 From: scottw1 at iadfw dot net (Scott Williams) Subject: MISC: ET contribution My first exposure to KC was just after they disbanded in '84. We were just out of high school and saw a video of the 3PP concert tour in Japan on MTV (thanks Al), back when MTV was cool. Anyways over the years I have followed all the members and gotten totally into KC. Although I now reside in Dallas, I'll be trekking up to Milwaukee Wis (my home state) in a few weeks to see the show. I am so psyched up I can't stand it! Things I've been doing to kill time until they take the stage (outside of work and family): - Heavy listening to THRAK. - Heavy listening to the Dinosaur CD. Man, Red live is so good! - Following all the concert reviews on ET. I hope they play Red, though I know it hasn't been happening at every show. - Reading the book that came with the Frame by Frame boxed set. - Always have a KC or member tape in my car. - Wearing my Discipline T-shirt and getting weird looks from other Dallasites. - Heavy listening to my Frejus Live '82 tape. When I was is collage in Madison Wisconsin there was a video rental store right across the street that happened to have this video tape. It is so good I can't believe no one else seems to know about it. Over the years I have visited Madison many times and always check to make sure they still have it. I couldn't talk them into selling it to me. It is long out of print I'm sure (BTW anyone know where I can get a copy of this?) My danged morality keeps me from checking it out permanently. Back in my collage days I did make a audio dub of it, and even though it is mono and was recorded from a old VCR to a $69 cassette deck, it is awesome. It includes LTA2. The one song I wish they would do that I highly doubt they will is Neal and Jack and Me. This is one of my all time favorites. To chime in on a subject I've seen discussed here, I think the Fripp solo on the original Matte Kudasai one of his best moments. The thing about Fripp and Crimson is the razor thin line they walk between harmony and dissonance, and they way they can create beautiful melodic passages out of very dissonant parts. Taking nothing away from Adrian's Matte solo, which is also beautiful, the Fripp solo is this haunting line that exists over a very melodic foundation. (The preceding lines prove once again that KC music cannot be done justice by words. Everyone reading this knows what I'm trying to say - the solo puts a smile on my face and gives me the chills at the same time.) Thanks for making this Newsletter happen. Where would all our lives be without KC? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 14:26:20 +1300 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James) Subject: MISC: ELO/what to do while Crimso plays Joachim Lous sed: >I'm surprised noone's metioned the similarities with ELO. I don't think >they were conscious references, but they're still there. The most obviuos >is the mellotron intro to Dinosaur, which could have been ripped straight >from mid-70's ELO, but also Belew's singing, when it occasionally strays a >slightly from pure Lennon, is slightly reminiscent. Could be just the >common Beatles-inspiration though. Actually I did, a while back. There's a song on their album "Time" called (ironically) Twenty-first century man, which sounds A LOT like the intro to Dinosaur... --- "M. S. AtKisson" mused: >Speaking of cerebral, it's interesting to note what I can and can't do >while listening to certain Crimson songs. I spent a year or so writing >software on a US Army computer-based instruction package. We were >literally a programming sweatshop--12 terminals in a small room and the >Walkman afforded the only mental privacy. I discovered that I could write >code quickly during most of Discipline (especially the title song), but >during "Indiscipline" I (still) can't even count past 10. A lot of tracks in 5/4 time, or other unusual time signature, are demanding enough that we can't just let them 'wash over' us, as we can 4/4 time. James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago. Ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand pixelphone james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz / steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807 * You talk to me as if from a distance * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time, * from another time (Brian Eno) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 00:31:04 -0700 From: john lewis Subject: MISC: Re: REVIEW: _Dinosaur_ Gregdunn at indy dot net wrote: ...an unfortunately lackluster Elephant Talk... To disagree a bit, this is my favorite track. I found this version of elephant talk to be quite fresh, different from live versions from the 80s band (or maybe i just haven't heard enough versions?). Great 'on the edge' guitar. Does anyone know who plays what (in particular what one would call the main guitar solo?) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mathias thallmayer Subject: MISC: Transcription of Schizoid Man available. Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 03:15:39 -0400 (EDT) The July issue of Guitar World contains a transcription of King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man" for guitar and bass. It also has an interview with Fripp. And, the July issue of Guitar Player also has an article. -- Mathias iconoclast at tarkus dot ocis dot temple dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: PaulyRich at aol dot com Message-Id: <950529181356_16643596 at aol dot com> To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: MISC: On the road again! Hello again E.T. ers, Sunday May 28th, I am composing this message while we are travelling down Canadian Route 401 on our way to Montreal from Toronto. We are off to a good start on this leg of the tour. The audiences in both Buffalo and Toronto went completely wild. When the CGT walked out on the stage in Buffalo, we had a few skeptics in the audience making loud comments about thier dissapproval of having to sit through an opening act after waiting so long (10 years) to see Crimson. One guy yelled out "play one song and then get off the stage!", but by the end of our 30 min. set we had the whole place on their feet cheering for more! It has been interesting reading the E.T. show reviews (good and bad) as we go along. Although most of the reviews have been good, I don't expect that we can always make everybody happy all the time and certainly everone is entitled to their own opinion, but it seems to me that sometimes people miss the point completely. I wonder what these people who say that they are so dissappointed were expecting? In general things are not what you would expect them to be. When people come to the shows with a lot of expectations (as opposed to coming with an open heart and open mind) they are often dissappointed. People don't realize how much the public effects the quality of a performance. The audience can make the difference between a show that seems like hard labor, struggling to make it to the end and a show that is sheer enjoyment, feeling like I could continue playing all night. The type of venue is also a major factor. In Dusseldorf, Germany, we played in a small sports arena that felt like playing into a huge black hole. The audience seemed so far away and so separated from the stage it was difficult to receive any energy or feedback from the public at all. Monday May 29th. The show last night in Montreal was magic. If any of you are wondering what it takes to be a good supportive audience - ask the 2000+ fans in Montreal!!! One negative note from last night: the security at the venue was too tough. Towards the end of the show, a few people stood up to dance in the aisle and were physically escorted back to their seats. More tour updates later, Cheers, Paul Richards, California Guitar Trio [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:56:39 +0000 From: br at inf dot rl dot ac dot uk Subject: MISC: KC in Emmanuel (!) BBC2 has just had a "Forbidden Weekend", centred on the topic of film censorship in the UK. A couple of programmes titled "Empire of the Censors" gave a potted history of censorship, with some examples of banned scenes. One of these was a gang-rape sequence from "Emmanuel". I watched this several times - honestly, not out of prurience but because the background music sounded awfully familiar. Suddenly, I realised that it was Lark's Tongues In Aspic, part 2! However, the version used wasn't the original album version, but had prominent sax squawking, and the lovely strident guitar seemed absent. I wonder where it came from, and how it (er) came to be in the film? Or rather, not in the film: this sequence was cut. Perhaps there's more KC in the uncut scenes? (I'm not about to hire the video just to find out...) So much for my not-so-misspent youth! Brian -------- Dr. Brian Ritchie, Systems Engineering Division, Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Chilton, DIDCOT, Oxon, UK WWW URL: http://www.cis.rl.ac.uk/people/br/contact.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 00:29 BST-1 From: craddocks at cix dot compulink dot co dot uk (Steve & Lyn Craddock) Subject: MISC: ET #193 In reply to Torch (u01saf): Definition of KC from the current tour programme: "1. 'The man with an aim'. From an Anglicised form of the Arabic phrase 'B'il Sabab' ('Beelzebub'). 2. Term coined by Pete Sinfield in 1969." ------ In reply to Joachim Lous: > ...His pop songs REALLY annoy me. _Walking on > air_ is just plain boring and irrelevant, .. irrelevant to what? It's a sensitive and melodic counter point to Dinosaur and showing some light and shade (before the next onslaught). >_People_ is positively > embarassing. Why? Are they talking about you then? This is one of my favourite tracks (certainly one of the most commercial and singeable) and demonstrates again the many sides of Crimso. It is more accessible than THRAK or Dinosaur and has helped to introduce a couple of friends to their purer side ... > This is NOT what we need Crimson for. We've heard it before, > and we've heard it done better. The album would be better value for money > without these two tracks, even without replacements: another example that > less is more :-) Well this is patent nonsense. If you don't like the tracks then fairy nuff; just say so and if you have to explain why then try and say something to prove the point. To quote from Mr Fripp in the current tour programme: "I recall that shortly after the release of 'Discipline' I received a letter regretting (in direct terms not compromised by politeness) the time wasted on that album by the inclusion of 'Matte [Kudesai]'. Myself, I am pleasantly encouraged that this gentle, and real, ballad still moves me." > I'm surprised noone's metioned the similarities with ELO. ?? > The most obviuos > is the mellotron intro to Dinosaur, Not heard 21st Century Schizoid man then? -Crash- PS This is the first time I've felt sufficiently moved to write without being too late (I'm often a couple of weeks behind) but I really enjoy the ET newsletter - thanks for all your effort! - Steve. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 14:07:45 -0700 From: John Relph Subject: DISCOG: March for No Reason I was browsing the local shoppe today and I noticed a heretofore unknown King Crimson OREO. It's a double CD set called _March For No Reason_, mostly live from 1969, with some BBC and Plumpton tracks. On Archivio from Italy. I didn't buy it. I don't know how bad it sounds. I just thought I would report it. -- John -- http://www.ig.com/~relph/ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 04:44:19 -0700 From: vance at netcom dot com (Vance Gloster) Subject: MISC: Red when? Quoth GregDunn at indy dot net: Red was worth waiting for. The band was obviously "on" for this one. Tight, disciplined and powerful -- and it's been more than ten years since this one was freshly written. Can't wait to see it in concert. Actually it has been more than twenty! I got my first copy of Red in 1974 (I think). The rest of music has almost caught up with where it was then. -Vance Gloster vance at netcom dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 08:50:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Stok Subject: MISC: Crimson Live Sound Sux? Tim Snyder asked: > So, he who could not hear BB: Were you off to the side? I was about 2/3 of the way back about level with the left side of the stage at the Albert Hall. I suppose the thing that got to me was that I have seen Earthworks up close (like able to hear the clunk of wood on plastic as Bill played some of the quieter bits) and it was frustrating to know what I was probably missing. Maybe they should get a couple of people to lurk in the audience for the first couple of numbers (especially as VROOOM on album has the stereo mix which would work well as a souncheck, 1 trio on each side) and have them report what it's like early in the show... Still, Boston tomorrow night should be good... Mike -- The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. | PSA Mike Stok | mstok at pencom dot com | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 10:58:20 -0300 (C) From: SIMONOTTI at tandar dot cnea dot edu dot ar Subject: LYRICS: Discipline Lyrics Dear Crimson Fans: Can anyone tell me where I can find the lyrics of the Discipline Album, or if possible, email them to SMTP%"simonotti at tandar dot cnea dot edu dot ar" Thank you in advance Fernando Simonotti [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 12:19:25 -0500 (EST) From: "M. S. AtKisson" Subject: MISC: Guitar Player July 1995 The July 1995 issue of Guitar Player had an article by James Rotondi on King Crimson. This is a magazine that generally worships Fripp and Belew, so the tone was as you might expect. There are two portions of (to me) real note. One is about how the band has changed, and the other is a small insight into how Fripp and Belew write/work together. For the first, I'll quote the article: "The album breathes much in the way that older incarnations of Crimson did. For Belew, who joined Crimson inthe vacuum-tight early '80's it's a welcome change, one that has helped open up his and Robert's respective guitar roles to more common ground. 'It opened up because Robert no longer favors the crafty, interlocking guitar parts so much,' says Belew, a four-time winner of GP's 'Best Experimental' guitarist honors. 'In the '80's band, it was almost impossible to get him to stop playing that. It was like, "Please, Robert, will you play one of your great, giant soaring solos here?" It was getting hard to come up with things to play against those very fast, precise lines. For Thrak, we didn't start from that point; we started >from a whole different open book, and Robert now favors the best of all the things he's done over the years. Robert has created several areas of guitar playing that no one else does like him, and now he's mixing all of those things together. It gives me a great sense of freedom." (p. 97) As for the bits about how they work together, it's a bit much to quote verbatim, but here are a few choice words: "As Fripp puts it, 'If Adrian writes words and sings them, it's a song, and if he doesn't, it's an instrumental...'" (p. 98) "'If you could be a fly on the wall around this band, you'd see how much discussion there is about how all the variables and possibilities we have are going to work together,' notes Belew." (p. 98) Other interesting notes: "Fripp once phoned Electro-Harmonix about the 16-second delay, which they were advertising as a 'Fripp-In-The-Box'. 'I asked if I could have one for free, and they said "No,"' grimaces Fripp. 'That's wonderful, isn't it?'" (p.100) "Fripp admits to some difficulty with the transference of older Crimson material to the new tuning [Guitar Craft 5ths] ('He makes some horrendous grimaces,' laughs Belew)..." (p.100) And--a propos to the "Music vs. Music Buisiness" ongoing discussion, I give you the article's closing quote from Fripp: "Crimson was a dangerous band. It didn't fit easily within the commercial norms then prevailing. A question that was often asked us was, 'You want to have a hit record. don't you?' Well, you can't very well say to a record company, 'No, I'm not actually interested in selling records. I'm interested in making this record, and then selling it.' So Crimson has always worked against gravity, because the Crimson way of doing things is very different from the norm. But if we accept that the approach is 'true,' then you would assume it would have a measure of attraction that would persist. If there's something real about it, it will persist in time." (p. 104) {All quotes from Guitar Player, July 1995. Article by James Rotondi. Their copyright. Legalities served, I hope.} _______________________ At the end of the article they printed Toby's net address, so I expect we'll find some new electronic faces. I found out about the list through the Tony Levin interview in Bass Player, which my husband gets. I've certainly appreciated the gig reviews--no spoilers for me. The show in Boston is tomorrow (june 2), and I'm REALLY geared up now. I've seen Belew twice, and Fripp once (with the League). It will be great to see them in a fully Crimson context. Fripp says in the article (I paraphrase) that the concerts are 70% what you sort of have to play for the fans (that being us), and 30% what happens for/to/with the band itself. Pretty fair balance in our favor. I'm just crossing my fingers for one of my fave's. Heartbeat is about the sexiest song I know... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * M. S. (Peg) AtKisson * (matkisso at opal dot tufts dot edu) * "...his frontal lobe Department of Neuroscience * a retread..." Tufts University School of Medicine * Boston, Massachusetts * Adrian Belew [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: stagda at sys1 dot ic dot ncs dot com (Dave Stagner) Subject: MISC: Jamie Muir before KC Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:44:59 -0500 (CDT) In response to the question about Jamie Muir's career before King Crimson, I have an album by the Music Improvisation Company featuring Muir. Musically, it is hardcore "free improvisation" of the Derek Bailey school of thought, and Bailey played on the album along with several others (btw, if you aren't familiar with Derek Bailey's work and you like really strange music, you're in for a treat. Bailey is so far out he makes Fripp sound like Bon Jovi. He hasn't played a composed note in decades, and he's a brilliant technician and extremely imaginative musician). If anyone is interested, let me know and I might be able to dig up some more info. Bailey wrote an excellent book on music improvisation which I luckily found a copy of, and it talks about the Music Improvisation Company, and may go into Jamie Muir's role. Again, this is very different music from King Crimson. I suppose it's closer to jazz, but perhaps a better comparison would be the compositional experiments of John Cage. One particularly Cage-like moment on the album I have is a point where the musicians grow quieter and quieter, just making little squeaks and tittering noises here and there. While listening to this, I suddenly realized that they had actually been completely silent for a couple of minutes, and I had been hearing the ambient sound of birds and cars and voices as completely abstract music. Certainly, this game of silence resembles Cage's famous "Four Minutes Eleven Seconds" piece, but the method was far more subtle, and the impact was less preachy and much more musical. The Cage piece exercised the conscious mind; the Musical Improvisation Company exercised the unconscious. Yes, I know this rant has little to do with King Crimson. So sue me. :} Actually, although I can't draw a precise musicological line, I am reasonably sure that Derek Bailey and the other free improvisers were a significant influence on the early King Crimson sound, particularly the long improvisations. If someone better informed than me could confirm or deny this, I'd be interested. -- * David Faron Stagner * National Computer Systems david_stagner at ic dot ncs dot com * 2510 N Dodge St vox 319 354 9200 ext 6884 * Iowa City, IA 52244 fax 319 339 6555 I disclaim my employer and I'm sure they'd disclaim me too. (This .sig has been sanitized for your protection) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 15:51:44 -0600 From: dalton at isidis dot colorado dot edu (lizard man) Subject: MISC: Inactive Fripp Hey gang, let's not antagonize Mr. Fripp for sitting motionless during performances. As he explains in numerous interviews, he does this in order to concentrate on the music. I believe he teaches Guitar Craft students to sit in this posture as it provides the necessary reach and control needed to play with the sort of Discipline he espouses. KC is not the kind of jump-around-the-stage poseur band that dominates MTV. The music comes first, and for Fripp, the music is all that counts. As far as presence, CLOSE YOUR EYES and it is clear that Mssr. Fripp is EXTREMELY present onstage! Belew is the official frontman, and i believe that Fripp is more than happy to concede the spotlight. He gets more than enough spotlight, both on and offstage, as it is. I recall reading somewhere that he considered the first time he sat down on stage to have been a tremendous leap forward in terms of the quality it inflicted on the music. If that's what it takes for him to provide us with the sound we all know and love so dearly, that's fine. I go to see live Crimson in order to HEAR it much more than to WATCH it. (Although i can't wait to see BB's face again!) Recent postings indicate Robert has moved his seat to BETWEEN the drum risers? Given his past comments (cf. Great Deceiver booklet) about the difficulty of playing with BB punding away next to him, even to the point of putting a screen between himself and the JW/BB rhythm section, i find this astonishing. dAn he smiles sometimes, too! Anecdote: At the 1984 St. Louis concert (Graham Chapel), between songs the hall went silent and someone said loudly, "Smile Robert!" He didn't: he frowned and launched into a stupendously vicious rendition of "Red." ObDinosaur: I also prefer the remastered VROOOM on Dinosaur to the other mixes. I tried playing the different mixes against each other but had difficulty telling them apart; but each time i play the Dinosaur mix, it hits me hardest in a purely subjective way, so i think there must be a difference. Ob Remix Comment: I feel that no mix of SLEEPLESS has achieved the song's potential, but the original LP version is my favorite. The original LP version of DISENGAGE is by far the most expressive vocally. Is it ANYWHERE available on CD? (That's Peter Hamill, right???) Haven't caught the difference on MATTE KUDASAI but i'll check. If they release USA on CD i'll buy it just for ASBURY PARK. --lizard man [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 17:58:14 -0400 From: BMomchilov at aol dot com Subject: MISC: Which One's the King?? Someone once asked me if the guy up on the stage wearing a codpiece and playing the flute was "Jethro Tull." After reading the many mean-spirited, ill-informed criticisms of _THRAK_, I'm wondering if some of those folks aren't out there asking people, "Which one of those guys is the King?" When reading some of their babble I am reminded of the description of a critic as, "someone who walks the battlefield after a war and shoots the wounded." Although perhaps the most amusing critique of KC I've heard lately comes from my beloved sister, who after hearing _THRAK_ played on my auto cassette player remarked, "It sounds sorta like jazz, but not quite." ..Thanks sis. While in Washington DC last week I found a CD titled; _A Weird Person's Guide to King Crimson_, on Invasion Unlimited (IU 9412-1), manufactured in Germany, 1994. It is a bizarrely mixed chronological grab bag of KC and Giles, Giles & Fripp. The sound quality is typical of an unauthorized (unauthorised??) KC release, but is interesting nonetheless. The abbreviated sleeve notes follow below: "Trio - A Strange One" coupled with "Night Watch" was cut at the TV studios, Paris in 1974. "Groon" performed at Summit Studios, Denver January 1972 differs from the _Earthbound_ version with its soul groove and also contains elements of the title track of the same album. (Claims to have Ian Wallace performing the first electric drum solo on stage). "Train to Hell" often listed mistakenly as "Doctor D," performed at Richard's Club, Atlanta 1973. It was originally intended to become part of S&BB, but left off because of similarities to "Pictures of a City." Outtakes from the following tracks: "LTiA Part III - As Far As We Think It's Unknown - I Wonder - ToaPP - Man With An Open Heart" from sessions held during the recording of the _ToaPP_ album, 1983. A Deram 7" recording of "Thursday Morning" different from the mix on _The Cheerful Insanity..._ album. "Kick the Donkey b/w "Nightmares in Red" was the first result of the G,G&F combo under the name, "The Brain." The "A" side is a straight, perfectly arranged soul stomper, which the Giles brothers used to do with the "Trendsetters Limited." The psychedelic "B" side claims to be the first ever recording of Robert Fripp on guitar. "No. 1 Mr. Wonderful" performed at the Marquee in 1971, has pre-versions of "LTiA Pt. 1" and "Lament. (The sleeve proclaims this: "The rarest KC ever!") "Starless" is another Paris studio outtake from 1974. Anyone interested in a copy?? Send me E-mail and we'll figure it out... Here's to a KC weekend beginning Friday, June 9th in Cincinnati and then on to Ann Arbor the next night. Am I a lucky guy , or what?!?! Brian K. Momchilov ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Greetings my friend, we are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect YOU... in the future." - _Plan 9 from Outer Space_ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 18:02:02 EDT From: "michael D. Jeter" Subject: MISC: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #194 Muir entered a monastery for a time...I believe he left and is now a visual art ist:-) Michael [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 17:18:05 -0500 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: REVIEW: World Diary Since this disc has been formally reviewed on this list already, I just wanted to add my thumbs-up vote for this disc. If you like Tony Levin's playing, this is a wonderful showcase of it. The packaging is also beautiful, with interesting liner notes by Tony. I'm giving a copy to my brother for his birthday.... -==-John R. Nash-==-nash at chem dot wisc dot edu-==-UW-Madison Chem. Dept-==- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mathias thallmayer Subject: CONCERT: solo Fripp in September Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 01:48:42 -0400 (EDT) At the Crimson gig in Philadelphia, flyers were handed out with the following info: Robert Fripp: Solo Soundscapes & The California Guitar Trio September 1st and 2nd, 1995 at the Paul C. Empie Theater Muhlenberg College - Center For The Arts Allentown, PA For ticket info call (610) 821-3239 after August 1st. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 02:58:51 -0500 From: cds398 at nwu dot edu (Craig ) Subject: MISC--looking for ride from NYC to NJ 6/6 Hi, It doesn't seem that any mass transportation system runs from NYC to NJ. If anyone wants to share a ride, I'll share the costs and any rarities (Live in Japan video, discipline live, much more). I'll be in Brooklyn, but can go anywhere the busses or subways go. I'll be at this e-mail adress until Monday the 5th at 11 AM. After that, call (718) 963-0449. Gratefully, Craig Shepard [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:33:20 -0400 From: Olduvaigy at aol dot com Subject: MISC: from the XTC List Saw this on the XTC list. I don't know if it was posted here: The July issue of Guitar Player has an interesting quote from Trey Gunn (current Chapman stick player for King Crimson )... "My ultimate jam session realized itself last year when Crimson was recording in England. Pat's [Mastelotto] done a record with XTC - one of my favorite bands - so we went over to Andy Partridge's house. Andy, Adrian [Belew], and I all had a jam together. That was my dream come true." Hope the DAT was rolling.... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Triebe, Andy" Subject: MISC: First posting Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 15:15:00 EDT I was hoping that my first posting would be a review of the boys playing Ottawa, but they decided to play Quebec City instead. So as an alternative, I thought I would briefly describe their last visit here (1984 TofaPP Tour). The venue was Camp Fortune, a modest ski hill that is sometimes used for open air concerts (weather permitting). The stage is placed at the bottom of the hill, and small log cabin serves as a dressing room. The tricky part is finding a small space of level ground to put your extra beer on! The show began at dusk with Fripp playing a diabolical solo intro, with each of the members joining one at a time, into a ten minute improv. The show developed nicely with an even distribution of tunes from the three 80's albums. The highlight though was an incredible rendition of Industry/Dig Me (oh, how that would sound with the double trio!). Other highlights included a killer version of Red and the obligatory finish with LTiA Pt.II. Maybe they'll play here on the second leg, but if not it's good to have this forum to keep in touch with things. (Thanks Toby) BTW any guesses as to who is doing all the barking on Cage? "Like a waffle on the griddle, I'm burnt around the edges but tender in the middle" -- AB Andy dot Triebe at NRC dot CA [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 02 Jun 1995 09:31:13 +0100 From: "Leif V. Myhrer (93355)" Subject: MISC: KC boxes and videos Hello ET'ers! I wonder if somebody got information on how to get the KC boxes FbF & TGD, KC singles and/or KC videos (PAL NICAM stereo). A simular ordering service as DGM would be perfect. The service there is just perfect. Delivery within a couple of days. I'm sorry to say that I'm not able to get these products around here. (The last FbF was just sold out when I finally got an address.) I'm also interested if somebody knows how to get Tony Levin's World Diary in Europe. Thanks!!!! Leif V. Myhrer LEMY at SEBANK dot SE [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: MISC: KC in The New Yorker Date: Fri, 02 Jun 95 08:54:00 EST From the 5 June _The New Yorker_ magazine under Concerts: "The darkest of the original English art rockers, Crimson has always been a chameleon: over the past twenty-five years the group has dabbled in everything from Celtic folk to industrial funk. Its latest platter "Thrak," is hitting the shops after an eleven year hiatus. The band is perhaps best known for giving the world Robert Fripp, the inventor of Frippertronics and the finest electric guitarist ever to play sitting down." I believe this to be a compliment in that all guitarists play sitting down at some point. OR Maybe at the DC show I'll yell out a request for "SITTING DOWN" since I've never heard it. 6moredaz tj [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: GIG REVIEW: A summary of the Buffalo KC concert. Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive From: elessar at helios dot acm dot rpi dot edu (Kenneth Lareau) Date: 27 May 95 23:01:22 GMT Spoiler for the King Crimson concert follows, so if you don't want to know what happened, or don't care, please go to next message now. :) I don't know if anyone will have posted before me on this subject, but I'd thought I'd put my two cents in... in two words, here's my opinion of the King Crimson concert I saw last night in Buffalo: f*cking incredible. The show started at around 8:18 with the opening act, the California Guitar Trio, which were quite amazing themselves. Some incredible quitar work, including a very amusing rendition of The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly which was somewhat of a surprise. :) The Trio finished around 8:47 and KC made it onto stage around 9:04. The set list was as follows, which was somewhat different from the European set list... VROOOM Frame by Frame Dinosaur One Time Red B'Boom THRAK Matte Kudasai Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream People VROOOM VROOOM Elephant Talk Indiscipline All the members were exceptional in playing together throughout all the pieces with the strange exception of Red and Matte Kudasai, where Pat Mastelotto was missing throughout parts of Red and all of Kudasai. I will say that Pat defi- nitely wasn't using just one hand during this show, he was quite active the whole time he was on stage, and did a very good job in both supporting Bill Bruford as well as adding some of his own unique flourishes. It was surprising to see parts that were done by Pat on the new tracks that I had thought were Bill, but I certainly wasn't disappointed. Elephant Talk also contained a small bass duet at the beginning, possibly a part of the supposed missing duet >from the album. The most pleasant part of the set was during Indiscipline, where Belew added a few lines... "I do remember one thing" *Belew looks at his watch* "It's been 10 years, 10 months, and 3 weeks since King Crimson last played in the US... Sorry about the delay, got hung up in customs." This got a very good reaction from the crowd. :) During the second verse near the end he also said "It's still been 10 years...", as if to remind us once again that it had been a long time. :) After a 5 minute pause, the first encore consisted of the same from the encore in Europe, namely: The Talking Drum Lark's Tongue in Aspic, Part 2 both of which seemed to surprise a few people. The Talking Drum was led in by some very interesting Latino-like percussion from Bill and Pat, along with an interesting use of Belew's guitar, which sounded more like a drum than a guitar for some reason. :) Another 5 minute break, and a very welcome second encore, which consisted of: VROOOM this time followed by Marine 475: Coda Walking On Air This ended the show at around 10:48, making a very enjoyable 2 1/2 hour evening. Probably one of the best concerts I've seen, even with the nosebleed seats. :) Hope everyone else who sees them finds it as good as I did, I know I enjoyed it immensely. Ken Lareau elessar at helios dot acm dot rpi dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: malzahn at umcc dot umich dot edu (Eric Malzahn) Subject: GIG REVIEW: King Crimson in Toronto -- May 27th, 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 00:22:23 -0400 (EDT) King Crimson -- Massey Hall, Toronto May 27, 1995 ------------------------------------------------------------- After Saturday night's show, I have no regrets about making the 4 hour trip to Toronto and paying for two nights in downtown hotels. This was a brilliant show -- among the best I've seen in my 8 years or so of ultra-frequent concert going. I did have some doubts going into it. Was this going to truly be Crimson? Would this compare to the concerts I'd heard on The Great Deceiver box? Or the amazing live in Japan video from the Three of A Perfect Pair tour? King Crimson is supposedly "a way of doing things." I anticipated that this would not change, but I did worry that they would hold back from improv, and thus confine themselves to a typical rock concert format. Oh the horror! Thankfully, they didn't hold back. Thrak was terrific. It didn't sound like the album version or the mini-album version. It took a life of its own before the small theater crowd. As did Indiscipline, which was by far the best version I've ever heard of this song (Maybe the exuberant audience participation or the dynamic volumes had something to do with this). I loved the improv piece they did right before The Talking Drum. I kept thinking most non-Crimson fans I know would probably see this as total noise, and, as is usually true, noise to them is amazing music to me. A few songs, as expected, were pretty faithful to the album versions. Dinosaur was one, but I was pleasantly surprised at how much I liked it. Walking On Air and Heartbeat were also pretty much straight off the records. I love Heartbeat, but I must say, I've seen Belew 7 times now including this show, and the only time he didn't play Heartbeat was the Bowie tour. Perhaps this song deserves a rest. Elephant Talk was another song I've seen Belew do a few times before, and I always had a problem with his band's rendition of it. It just didn't fit. But it certainly fit with this band. No question about it, King Crimson is back in North America! This 6 piece unit packs some true power. Vroom, Vroom Vroom, Red, Larks Tongues in Aspic Part II, and Marine 475 (both times they played it!) were all hard-hitting, almost apocalyptic, as they should be. I, by the way, wouldn't have minded a little more volume in this theater, but maybe I'm just too used to shows like The Jesus Lizard or Pittsburgh's fantastic Hurl which had to crank up above their bone-smashing drummer to keep the levels equal in the small coffee house. Either way, KC's sound man seemed to agree with me about halfway through the show and the sound was turned up just a bit. The sound quality was good overall. The only hindrance was the inherent echo of the theater, but I cannot begin to say how glad I am that Fripp and company chose to tour theaters and nothing bigger this time around. Just think how easy it would have been for them to hit the outdoor pavilion's where everyone within viewing distance has a corporate season ticket. Crimson would probably be on a package deal with Chicago and Lynyrd Skynyrd shows. I'd be sitting on the lawn probably getting rained on with only the "Budwieser" banners and the cheap giant TV screens in my viewing range. Anyway, I can't wait until the other two parts to my trilogy of King Crimson shows (Ann Arbor and Kalamazoo). There's a lot to see and hear in a show like this, and I'm sure after seeing it three times I'll still be only scratching the surface of the full experience. -- Eric Malzahn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 13:34:42 -0400 (EDT) From: javid sadr Subject: TICKETS: KC ticket for sale, NYC, Jun 3rd hi everybody. i've got one ticket for the kc concert this saturday (june 3rd) in new york city. if you want it, please get in touch with me *right away*. i'm selling it for $60, same as i paid, o.b.o. thanks a lot. javid sadr at phoenix dot princeton dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 16:53:51 -0400 From: dnash at atlanta dot com (David Nash) Subject: TICKETS: LA Tickets for the 30th It is with much regret that I offer two tickets to the Friday June 30 show up for sale. I can't get a frequent flyer ticket (July 4 weekend)so I'm staying home. The tickets are in Orchestra, row Y, seat 9 & 11.(I was assured that they are together. Email me or call @ 404-266-0020. I only hope they go to a good home. Thanks. David PS. I would think Fripp has at least a lttle fascination with the Beatles. There is a song about them on Lizard, after all. "Do like the Hindu: The best you Cando!" mohandas_k_ghandi at afterlife dot com David E. Nash (The one from High Point, NC) dnash at atlanta dot com gnash42213 at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 1 Jun 1995 09:48:12 -0500 From: "tgrubb" Subject: TICKETS: Washington, DC Yikes, I'm ticketless! Does anyone have one or two tickets for next week's KC show in Washington, DC? If so, send email to tgrubb at arpa dot mil. I can also be reached during weekdays at (703) 696-8945 or evenings and weekends at (703) 845-9254. (Better to use the weekday number.) Thanks, Terry [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cooper at cicada dot berkeley dot edu Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 18:51:40 -0700 Subject: TICKETS: WANTED for SF show. I am in need of two tickets to see the Jun 24, 25, or 26 Crimson shows at the Warfield Theater in San Francisco. If anyone can help us out, please get in touch with Cooper at cooper at cicada dot berkeley dot edu or phone- (510) 524-6924. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 02:53:15 -0500 From: cds398 at nwu dot edu (Craig ) Subject: TICKETS: request NJ I am looking for two tickets for the Redbank, New Jersey show at the Count Basie theater on Teusday June 6. This is my second posting. To my first, the only reply was a person asking $60 a ticket. By this measure, I'd be paying this person more than twice (much more than twice) as much I'd be paying either Mr. Gunn, Mr. Mastelotto, Mr. Belew, Mr. Levin, Mr. Bruford, or Mr. Fripp for their performance. I really can't afford that. I don't suspect that these gentlemen can either. Anyone have some tickets? I'll be at this e-mail adress until the 5th @11 am. Truly thankfully, Craig Shepard [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: TICKETS: King Crimson ticket for sale Date: Monday, May 29, 1995 7:34PM From: BrianT at computing dot emap dot co dot uk hi everybody. in case anybody's interested and can make it to nyc... i've got one ticket for the king crimson concert this saturday (june 3rd) in new york city. if you want it, please get in touch with me right away. i'm selling it for $60, same as i paid, o.b.o. javid sadr at phoenix dot princeton dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]