From elephant-talk at arastar dot comThu Jun 1 07:23:54 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 00:11:31 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #194 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 194, Wednesday, 31 May 1995 Today's Topics: QUERY: 9th May - KC live in Berlin ??? MISC: Re: Elephant Talk #193 MISC: Re: King Crimson on Letterman MISC: Levin, Muir, Fripp, Belew GIG: Cleveland pre-concert get-together REVIEW: _Dinosaur_ MISC: Is there anything LIKE ET? MISC: "KC journals" GIG REVIEW: mr. fripp's shirt-tails (fwd) GIG REVIEW: KC in Toronto GIG REVIEW: TORONTO 5/27 GIG REVIEW: Buffalo, 5/26/95 GIG REVIEW: Crimson back to Montreal TICKETS: Town Hall ticket available TICKETS: leading for a friend TICKETS: Tix needed, Chicago [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 14:08:42 CET From: mpietrzyk at lodz2 dot p dot lodz dot pl Subject: QUERY: 9th May - KC live in Berlin ??? Hi, all ET readers ! Does anybody know if there was KC concert on 9th May in Berlin ? Yesterday I got two live tracks (Red, Elephant Talk) dated 9th May 95, Berlin. I've been on Belin concert (8th May), so I'm sure these tracks don't come from 8th May. So, was there second live show in Berlin ??? Maybe somebody knows something about that ? By the way, another question: Recently I've heard on the radio that next year KC will be again on tour in Europe, and that they will come to Poland !!!!! Is that true ?!!! Mateusz Pietrzyk Lodz Poland [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tuesday, 30 May 1995 08:54 ET From: andrew dot prowse at amail dot amdahl dot com Subject: KC in Toronto Saw King Crimson on Saturday night, at Toronto's Massey Hall. - For openers, The California Guitar Trio started at 7:30. They got off to a pretty good start, and really got the crowd into it with the theme from 'the good, the bad, and the ugly' and Bachs Toccatta. Overall they were quite impressive, and the did get a standing ovation. - Next, Crimson hit the stage about 8:15 and smoked. What they played: - Vrooom coda: Marine 475 <- No words... Frame by Frame Dinosaur <- Fripp stood twice during this :-) One Time Red <- Mastoletto let Bruford do it all... B'Boom <- about 5 min of Fripp's Frippertronics (Soundscapes) THRAK Walking on Air People Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream <- Belew used cordless screwdriver on guitar strings, cool Vrooom Elephant Talk Indiscipline <- about 3 min Bruford solo at start -------------- Encore The Talking Drum <- Cross violin was done throgh Belew's guitar Lark Tongue's in Aspic part II -------------- Encore II Heartbeat Vrooom Vrooom Vrooom Vroooom Coda - NOTE: the song order might be messed up a bit, as I didn't - write down anything until today. Bruford was really into it, as was Levin, Mastoletto and Belew. Gunn sort of faded in and out, but he was way off to my left, and I had a great view of Belew, Bruford, Levin and Fripp, so I did not pay Gunn much attention anyway. Fripp, was...well, he was Fripp. Other than standing twice during Dinosaur, he could of been at the dentist. Mind you, if you could see him playing in the shadows, (which I could, damn good seats), he was really ripping up the guitar, but no emotion. - Overall, a fantastic show. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Prowse - Amdahl Canada The Bluebird of Happiness long absent azp80 at amdahl dot com from his life, Ned is visited by the azp80 at duts dot ccc dot amdahl dot com Chicken of Depression" -- Gary Larson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 21:07:12 +0100 From: Svante Pettersson Subject: MISC: Re: Elephant Talk #193 > As for drums and definition, this malady often occurs when the mixing > person fails to recognize any point in the room other than his or her > mixing station. I am always astounded when, hearing bad sound, I walk over > to the mixing station and it crystalizes into beautiful sound. Since the > mixing console is so often in the hall's center and in line with high-end > speakers and horns, the mix on the sides of the room can end up > comparitively muddy. > I'm a sound engineer and I've encountered this problem some times. Even if you get to go around the hall during soundcheck you can't leave the mixing console during the show. Then it's natural that you mix the sound after where you stand. Even if you try to consider the sound in other places around the hall you mix after what you hear. This problem could easily be solved by placing more speakers around the hall but considering today's costs of bringing a tour around the world this is probably not possible. With more speakers placed on good spots you could also bring down the sound pressure for those poor people that end up in the front sides right in front of the speakers. As I write this I realised that I haven't seen KC in concert so the problem might just be that the sound guy is a jerk! ;) Later... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Svante Pettersson "The world isn't flat. Kajplats 305 It's actually +6 dBa at 5.7 kHz." swepett at kajen dot malmo dot se sv at nte dot kajen dot malmo dot se -FSCFRA 1994 webmaster at kajen dot malmo dot se http://www.kajen.malmo.se/~swepett/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 20:52:38 -0400 From: KB305 at aol dot com Subject: MISC: Re: King Crimson on Letterman Ron at dvcorp dot com warns: >Looking back through the Elephant Talk archives I find that you >are the >one who first stated: >>First of all: Everyone set up your VCR now. King Crimson on >>David Letterman >>May 19. There. >A lot of people went to watch the show on the 19th and found that >King Crimson >wasn't there at all. Where did you get your information? I >suspect you >had better prepare yourself for a lot of flaming. Ron and all other Elephants: Don't flame me. Flame David Letterman, or his staff. Annie Lennox was originally scheduled for Thursday night, and KC for Friday. When Annie became ill on Thursday, the Letterman staff made the decision to bump KC and put her on Friday. My "original source" was Virgin Records. See you at Town Hall on Sunday. Kevin [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 21:21:16 -0400 From: LarksTngue at aol dot com Subject: MISC: Levin, Muir, Fripp, Belew Hello Crimsoids. I wanted to know where the Tony Levin interview is currently residing? [Digest.186 -- Toby] I know that someone gave out the ftp site awhile ago, but I'm a little slow, sorry. If you know could you Email me and let me know. Also, I know that Jamie Muir was in a band before Crimson. I belive it was named "Boris". (Sorry folks, I didn't bring my notes, so I'm not sure of the band name). Anyway, did they ever record anything that is available? Also, What happened to Mr. Muir after Crimson? Last but not least, I have copies of interviews that Mssr's. Fripp and Belew did for Roland Users Group Magazine at the time of the release of 3oaPP. If these aren't posted anywhere I would be happy to do that if someone would Email me and let me know how.(Like I said I'm a little slow). That's all for now I just want to say in closing "THRAK THRAK THRAK, VROOOM" (this is what my car sounds like when I start it!) LarksTngue Confusion will be my epitaph As I crawl a cracked and broken path... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 21:28:21 -0400 From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: GIG: Cleveland pre-concert get -together Anyone attending the June 8th concert at Nautica Stage in Cleveland is invited to meet beforehand for beers and banter, banter, banter (and other Elephant Talk) at TGIFriday's which is located next to the Nautica Stage. We'll meet from 6 P.M. to shortly before the show. Join us for attitude adjustment and lots of chitchat, chitchat. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 23:19:41 -0500 From: gregdunn at indy dot net (Greg Dunn) Subject: REVIEW: _Dinosaur_ Just a brief mini-review while waiting patiently for the upcoming Cincinnati Crimshow... :) I found the CD single _Dinosaur_ while on a shopping trip this weekend; the promise of unreleased (as yet) Crimso live tracks was enough to make me buy it. I am not disappointed. The edit of _Dinosaur_ is actually quite respectable; if anything from the new album could get airplay on pop radio, this is the one that should be played. Close enough to the real thing, short enough to shoehorn between commercials [okay, then, would you rather that NO Crimso get played on the radio at all? Heck, I'd like them to play "Red" and "Lark's Tongues" too, but face it; it ain't likely. At least this might attract a few new fans]. A remastered VROOOM from the EP! My preferred performance, yet cleaned up so the distorted edge doesn't overpower the musicianship. Love it. Cloudscape; a nice break / intro to an unfortunately lackluster Elephant Talk [donning flameproof armor]. Jeez; is it just me, or does this version sound like it was mixed on someone's car radio? I can't even hear Belew's guitar for most of the song; and the drums are... uninspiring. Compare this to the "Live in Japan" video version, which kicks. Okay, ten years have passed... but still! Red was worth waiting for. The band was obviously "on" for this one. Tight, disciplined and powerful -- and it's been more than ten years since this one was freshly written. Can't wait to see it in concert. 1 week and counting... -- | Greg Dunn | "Information is not knowledge; | | GregDunn at aol dot com | knowledge is not wisdom; | | gregdunn at indy dot net | wisdom is not truth." | | Greg at gdunn dot nawc-ad-indy dot navy dot mil | -- Frank Zappa | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: j dot ppontorier at genie dot geis dot com Date: Fri, 26 May 95 22:30:00 UTC Subject: MISC: Is there anything LIKE ET? I know all of us "YANKS" are all bubbling with enthusiasm over the U.S. tour (which starts tonight in Buffalo). I live 1 & 1/2 hours from Buffalo in Erie, Pa., but only the Cleveland show was promoted here and the show was sold out by the times I found out about it (or at least I was told it was sold out). If I didn't work so early tomorrow, I'd go up and hang out to try and get a ticket. I'm looking forward to reading the messages from all you lucky people that get to go tonight! At any rate, I just want to say that I've enjoyed ET since I subscribed to it a couple weeks ago. My question is ..... Do any other music groups have something similar to E-T. ??? I'm especially interested in JETHRO TULL, YES, FISH (aka Derek Dick), MARILLION, PINK FLOYD. I'm kind of limited to qE-Mail right now so if anyone knows any E-mail addresses (or any other internet addresses-I'll figue out this WWW sooner or later), please send me E-Mail directly j dot ppontorier at genie dot com, or post it in the letter if you think anyone else would be interested. Hope everyone enjoys the tour... l(8)er on, -john pontoriero [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 13:09:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Erik.Matthysen" Subject: MISC: "KC journals" Hello et-ers, Browsing in the earliest "discipline" postings from 1991 I came across a posting saying that copies of Fripp's "King Crimson journals" from 1968 to 1975 were available on a server called gibraltar-server at maestro dot mitre dot org. I tried but this address seems no longer correct. Does anyone know whether these "journals" can be accessed anywhere else? Apparently these texts are taken from a booklet accompanying the "Young Persons Guide" but though I have it on vinyl, it came without any text. Erik Matthysen matthys at uia dot ua dot ac dot be [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 12:20:07 -0400 From: Gerald Underhill Subject: GIG REVIEW: mr. fripp's shirt-tails (fwd) personal observations of the crimson king: does mr. fripp read 'ET'? massey hall, toronto. there is 'that' fripp sitting centre stage (between pat & bill), no direct lighting, but enough to experience his demonic (ancient meaning, not christian) presence. bill bruford is the best of musicians to see live! everytime over the last twenty some odd years it has been a pleasure to watch & hear him. his poise, accuracy, ease of playing, humour & confidence exemplifies everything that king crimson (and musicians) strive for. tony levin was wonderfully ecectic going from upright to bass to stick!!! sitting in the gallery they where the only 3 members i was able to see, very, very unfortunately. also the sound was somewhat muddied and lacked the clarity desired (whatelse is new at massey hall). luckily the sound & the experience opened "THRAK" to myself & sheila! one more point!!!! those boys with their baseball hats. take them off!!! gerald evolved individuals act without expectation, succeed without credit, and have no desire to display their excellence. tao te ching #41 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 10:03:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Cawthray Subject: GIG REVIEW: TORONTO 5/27 Well folks, my first KC show ever, and I have mixed feelings. The setlist was very similar to most of the lists that have been posted, so I won't try and remember the exact order. Anyway, the show was at the beautiful (and usually good sounding) Massey Hall. Well, the sound sucked! I believe they must be renting PA gear in each town, because I can't believe they would tour with such a shitty system. First of all, I don't even know if all of the drum mic's were turned on, Bill's SIMMONS certainly wasn't in the house speakers. There were lots of glaring gaps in the mix all over the place. Anyway, I hope that the band knows about this and have taken some rental precautions for the rest of the tour.... OK, so how about the show? The interplay between Mssrs. Mastelotto and Bruford is some of the most innovative double drumming I have ever heard. Very well done, not just simple division of labour, but very contextual arrangements. For example, the accent at the beginning of the verses in ET were great, Bill did the roll and then Pat would finish it with the crash. Simply wonderful, bravo gentlemen! I feel that MR. Gunn is in a very unfortunate position, there just doesn't seem to be enough "space" in the arrangements for him to play. We all know he is a wonderful player, but he seemed very much like a "sideshow" in KC. BTW, the stick duet was way too short. While Mr. Fripp did a very nice job of aggravating me through the whole show with his stage persona vaccuum :), one can't deny hat he is probably the cleanest flat-picking guitarist around, warts and all. My KC tastes are very much centred in the 80's and beyond. I am huge Belew fan, I think his lyrics are some of the best I have ever heard and his playing is fresh, innovative and full of "presence". In many ways he reminds me of another favourite guitarist/vocalist, Bob Weir. Both are highly underrated assets to their bands and are truly the "glue" that holds everything together onstage. IMHO, if you aregoing to play rock/pop songs, the Beatles are an inevtiable touchstone, so kudos to Adrian for writing and performing with such honesty. Finally, Tony Levin's playing is so singular, so unique, that it would be unfair to compare him to other bassists (unfair to the other bassists!). Just keep it up Tony, the rest of 'em will catch up sooner or later:) As a group, it was overall very good, however I think the final piece sort of crapped out (one of the VROOOMs). Oh well, good luck to the rest of the tour! chris drumz at io dot org [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 10:48:00 -0500 From: lbh2 at cornell dot edu (bruce higgins) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Buffalo, 5/26/95 As I'm sure there will be multiple postings about the show, I will be brief. The setlist was identical to the European shows, save for the omission of Discipline :-( Things I would complain about: * Sound sucked thru the first three songs. Became adequate during One Time. * Belew bailed on the interlocking guitar duet that closes Frame by Frame. Instead of engaging Fripp's fiendish fretwork, he just laid some watercolor textures over it. * Cheesy lighting. There was nothing "Crimsonesque" about it. * Tho a nice coda almost salvaged People; I thought substituting Sleepless here in the "funk slot" would have improved the set immensely. * For a band with such distinctive personalities, this was a faceless performance. Until the very end, Belew did not deploy his engaging frontman personna. * Tony and Trey stomped all over each other. It was not clear what advantage was gained by having both of them, particularly given that there was... * NOT ENOUGH STICK!!!!!!! Things I would (and did) applaud: * The instrumental breaks in Sex, Sleep... were ferocious. The surprise hit of the evening * Mastelotto and Bruford worked together very well. I do not know what was gained by having the two of them, but certainly nothing was lost. * Matte Kudasai was gorgeous. Belews leads were liquid seagull calls evoking langorous landscapes. * There was a definitive moment in LTiA pt II where Fripp broke out of the mix with a classic riff; after a respectful pause, Adrian played a perfectly complementary solo on top. Worth the price of admission. * THRAK was great...like a Bartok string quartet gone *horribly* wrong ;-) * Indiscipline ruled. Of the dozen or so versions I have heard, this may have been the definitive one. Overall, it's hard to reconcile nearly eleven years of mentally rerunning the 3oaPP tour and anticipating another with the actuality of what went down in a mere two hours. I look forward to the studying the documents, sanctioned and not, that will emerge from this tour. -Bruce [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Caron, Antoine" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Crimson back to Montreal Date: Wed, 31 May 95 09:35:00 EDT Bonjour de Montreal First post. I was gonna post earlier on KC in 1974, 1984 and assorted fripperies but the Thrak tour caught up with me. Sunday, May 28th, KC at the Saint-Denis theater: It's hard to find a balance between the sheer emotion of meeting an old friend (lover?) and the necessary openess to be ready for anything. Surprise: Fripp is sitting on top, between the two drummers, in the lights! The show begins with the Vroom coda and Frame by F.:The sound seems weak (clearly being tweaked frantically at the board). Uncertain beginnings. By the middle section of Dinosaur, the sound has now been focused and the music is happening. Red is magical,like an electronic symphony. Powerful, powerful. After B'Boom, Thrak will launch an unstoppable upwards movement. The middle section of Thrak features new sounds and interplay: great stuff. All those who said Bruford plays all over the place, go hear for yourself: The man is at the top of his art; he plays with restraint; not a hit in vain. Pat M. does very well too; the interplay is so tight, it's like one. Heartbeat, Sex and People: good transition. The funk fingers! Man, I cannot understand what so many people (!) dislike about...People. It's like a funky train a'rollin...F U N K Y. Belew excels. I am sorry, but those who don't accept his role, you're living in the past, you're late by two KCs! (This is all IMHO, of course). ET...and then...andthen...Indiscipline. This drove the show to a punchy, masterful ending, the crowd now totally immersed. First encore: Bruford at the microphone, in an excellent french, recalling that it was here in Montreal that KC played their last gig in 1984. A long association between the band and the city (tell you more in an upcoming post). Talking drum (TG impressive, but...it's Belew doing that violin sound!), and LTiA II. The final bridge: Fripp bathed in light, in the middle of the band where he belongs, hammering those solitary, menacing chords. The sound is not really loud, just full, complex and intense. The audience goes wild. Second encore: Vroom and Walking on Air. It went soooo fast. I feel very emotional. RF joins the rest of the band in the front to take a bow. He shakes qAdrian'hand and gets a hug in return. RF is smiling... There is no doubt that the magic has happened again. This King Crimson is even better than the Thrak record hints at. Oh yeah, I forgot: Mr. Levin. One word comes to mind: generosity. His unassuming presence. A gentleman. Will I say anything negative? The only problem I see has to do with the relationship between audience and band (I know...I know, this would take more space, but...). In a venue like this (a theater, with wall to wall seating) people are kind of captive. Some kids tried to dance in front, during ET, and were taken away. Also, I'm sure one of the reasons the sound is kept relatively low is that part of the audience is sitting directly in front of the PA and could suffer real ear damage if...Oh well. Got to go now. If you can still find your way in, don't miss this tour: Music of that quality and intensity has become extremely rare. "All your dresses are on the floor, all your dreams out the door...." (Ian Stephens and Redshift) Antoine W. Caron caron at biotech dot lan dot nrc dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Cermak, Donna" Subject: TICKETS: Town Hall ticket available Date: Tue, 30 May 95 15:23:00 EDT I know it's a bit last minute, but I've got one ticket to the Town Hall show on Saturday, June 3. It's pretty decent - balcony, row B, dead center. You'll be sitting next to two diehard KC fans, (for what that's worth). Asking buying price. Anyone interested - reply via e-mail. Thanks, Donna Cermak cermakd at moodys dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 13:04:35 -0400 From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) Subject: TICKETS: leading for a friend I am looking for extra tickets for the Michigan and Wisconsin dates as well as California dates for my friend Adam Cummins, who will be going to these places in the summer. I lent him my copy of THRAK (and i can't seem to get it back!) and he is determined to see them live this year. well it's goodbye. P.S> Adam told me that Earthbound and U.S.A are available on compact disc is this true? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 23:23:50 -0400 From: EliezerK at aol dot com Subject: TICKETS: Tix needed, Chicago If anybody has a couple of extra tickets they could sell me for the 6/14 Bismark show, I'd smile like Chicago. e-mail- EliezerK at aol dot com Eliezer Kaplan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]