From elephant-talk at arastar dot comThu Jun 1 07:25:57 1995 Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 21:52:38 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #192 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 192, Wednesday, 24 May 1995 Today's Topics: MISC: Fripp, which Fripp? Had seen no Fripp. And then he played The Hague MISC: Letterman GIGS: On the road with KC MISC: David Letterman and Thrak KEITH TIPPETT CONCERT MISC: liner notes to GGF GIGS: Concert sound MISC: Letterman? MISC: I say tomato and you say tomato MISC: Definitive Versions THRAK: More "THRAK-TALK" and misc. MISC: Fripp as editor? MISC: The Great Deceiver VIDEOS: crimson videos GIG REVIEW (SPOILER!): 15.05.1995 THE HAGUE, CONGRESSGEBOUW TICKETS: ONE TICKET NEEDED!!!: Washington D.C. TICKETS: Need Kalamazoo ticket TICKETS: NYC [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 20 May 1995 16:30:15 -0100 From: mumu2001 at bart dot nl (christian mogul) Subject: MISC: Fripp, which Fripp? Had seen no Fripp. And then he played The Hague Gentlemen, gentlemen!... It's a bit nauseating seeing so many perfect words about this "perfect tour". It's a shame I cannot stop from reacting, only to tell you about what happened here, in The Hague, Holland. Or should I quote the press? Because you're about to read a negative opinion but I do not have enough time now to explain, I promise in 3 weeks time I'll come back with arguments. So, though I've enjoyed the show (taste doesn't go hand in hand with quality), the KC show was more than disappointing. Even hard core fans, that write for music magazines, were lamenting the present KC condition. The egocentric period of Mr. Fripp obviously affects the quality of the music performed by the other excellent musicians in the band. (Note that even the booklet was by Fripp and Fripp only. When is he going to say "I, King Crimson"?) It looked that "Mind, Heart and Hand" certainly was not complete that night, for I only refer to the concert from The Hague. And the Guitar Trio, boy what a waste of time! (not only nothing new under the sun, but pieces previously played by RF String Q were badly played - I don't know titles, never cared about what they call a sound) As said, I was shocked to see that KC has such one sides fans. I shall also present one side, my side and I'm sorry that I had reasons to reach this conclusion. If time will allow, I'll translate some reviews from zines that once (when the case) praised KC. Chris mumu2001 at bart dot nl [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 15:54:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: Letterman Wow! Was that some show or what?! I am of course referring to King Crimson's May 19 appearance on The David Letterman show. They were in top form. Funny though, they looked and sounded a LOT like Annie Lennox. Bitter in Grinnell, JP [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 22:28:09 -0400 From: PaulyRich at aol dot com Subject: GIGS: On the road with KC Hello E.T.ers, Today is Friday May 19th. I am typing this message while flying to the states after the final shows of the European leg of the KC tour in Royal Albert Hall. We have 5 days break and then we are off to meet up with Crimson again in Buffalo, New York. So far the tour has been really great. The Crimson audiences have been really supportive of our opening set. We have even received a few standing ovations (Paris and Florence stand out in my mind). The Crimson band members are very supportive as well. Often they are wishing us well as we head out on stage and cheering and complimenting us as we enter the backstage afterwards. The Catering team has scheduled us to eat dinner right after our set. So we are usually in the middle of our meal when Crimson hits the stage. The catering room is usually located near the stage and sometimes (as in Italy) under the stage. It's quite something to eat dinner with Crimson Thraking away at full volume just over our heads. The Crew is amazing. It is unbelievable how hard they work. They generally begin with setup about 9:00 AM and work hard all day long with very few breaks until 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning and then sleep in the bus on the way to the next city to do it all over again. They usually see a hotel room about once every four or five days. The two nights at the Royal Albert Hall in London were something of a highlight for us and a great way to end the European leg. It was a real pleasure to perform in such a fine hall to a star studded audience. Last night in attendance were Peter Gabriel, John Wetton, Steve Hackett, Peter Sinfeild, David Sylvian, John Paul Jones and many others. Bill Bruford had warned me that the English audience can be very cold, but we found them to be quite the contrary, giving us generous applause and even a few on their feet at the end of our set. Just to set the record straight on a few things that I have read in the E.T. concert reviews so far...1. The CGT do not run their guitars through a midi interface. 2. Crimson repeated Dinosaur in Milan during the encore because the encore set was being filmed. I don't recall any other performances that included repeats during the encore, but hey, with Crimson anything is possible. When possible, we have been going out after the show to the merchandise stand to sign copies of our new CD "Invitation" and tour programs. So please stop by to say hello. See you at the shows!..... Paul Richards, The California Guitar Trio [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 10:59:30 GMT From: orno at mmedia dot is (Orn Orrason) Subject: MISC: David Letterman and Thrak Dear ET readers I watched all David Lettermans shows this week and saw no trace of KC there. Perhaps we were lucky here because Yes was such a failure there last year. There is a very limited scope for artistic expressions here. The concert reviews (spoilers) are great for those can't attend the concerts , I will just have to imagine how it was. Perhaps my only chance to see KC live is passed because of lack of money for a flight ticket. I have got Thrak and must say that I am quite pleased with it. It is the best music KC has produced since 1974. Although the current band does not match the Great Deveiver group for sheer power, vitality and originality it is still very good. Thrak will perhaps not be a classic album (difficult to judge now though) it has very good moments and also very bad ones. Thrak for example is an extremely ugly song, the opening devil sounds are very ugly on my high resolution ribbon loudspeakers.I can't listen to that song as a whole. It must be difficult to be innovative (turning 50 years old) so I excuse them to play Beatles like songs. I don't agree with Bill Brufords new style where he is playing all over the space, it is very untidy, does not always seem time related and makes the sound upatient. We have 6 musicians here so everybody must think of the space they take. Why don't these two trios play against each other, in different time to make space and create more tension in the music. The double trio idea is in my opinion a failure now and very underdeveloped. >From what I read the guys haven't exercised that much (everybody have a limited time schedule) so what can we expect. I think Fripp should gather together young innovative hungry musicians for a more experimental band (he could have different name like "Uncle Bob's experiment") From the reviews I can't wait to hear the live CD's (Expected release in the year 2015) best regards [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 22 May 95 17:45 BST From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: MISC: KEITH TIPPETT CONCERT FREE KEITH TIPPETT CONCERT Thurs May 25th 2pm The Meeting House, University of Sussex. From the flyer: Keith Tippett left Bristol in 1967 and came to prominence in London in the late 1960's with his Sextet and his astonishing 50-piece ensemble Centipede. He is widely recognised as one of the most distinctive and radical pioneers in contemporary music today. Performance, composition, recordings, broadcasts, masterclasses, film scores, workshops and children's education projects - all of these elements constitute Keith Tippett's work over the past two decades. Critics have continued to document Tippett's work throughout his career. From the 1971 comment by Melody Maker about Centipede: " In this one piece he has done more than almost anybody else that comes to mind in breaking down barriers in rock, jazz and classical music", to the more recent comment in 'The Times' that: "None of the American heavyweight performers has made more stimulating discoveries than Tippett". The scope of his musical genius has received constant critical acclaim. Recognition has also come from the world of contemporary classical music. Not only has Tippett played a crucial role in opening the Dartington International Summer School to improvisation but he has composed several pieces for new music groups such as Mary Wiegold's Composers Ensemble and the Balanescu String Quartet. In solo performance Tippett's hallmark is a unique, mesmeric style coupled with a melodic, spiritual power which transforms the piano into an orchestra of his imagination. As an improviser he bears out the revelation, shared only by a handful of other musicians today, that spontaneous composition, with its fine balance of structure and inspiration, is once again a vital force in contemporary music. Sponsored by the Sussex Music Subject Group -- Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/ronc/index.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 12:41:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Erik.Matthysen" Subject: MISC: liner notes to GGF Hello friends of the Brightly Coloured Monarch, A long time ago I bought an (expensive) copy of the Cheerful Insanity, something I haven't regretted, if only because of "North Meadows", "Suite no 1", "Erudite Eyes" and "The Crukster" - together they would be a very convincing early KC - EP. This was a re-release of the original Decca album but obviously released for the Japanese market (I've seen imports of "Red" as well) containing a sheet with extensive notes on the record and GGF's history. I don't read Japanese but the notes contain family trees of early KC, GGF, League of Gentlemen (without any GGF member??) and others. Question: does anyone know whether this is a translation of an English text, and where it can be found? Or if it was written for the re-release, anyone reading Japanese interested in providing a translation? I'll gladly mail you a copy. Erik Matthysen, Antwerp PS: The other day I discovered a nice but totally irrelevant connexion between KC and Alice in Wonderland's Red Queen. At one point the Queen and Alice are running but Alice remarks that they are not moving at all. Says the Queen "it takes all the running you can do to stay in one place, it takes even more running to get anywhere". Isn't this a nice metaphor for the music of our Red King, which outpaces a lot of other "progressive" bands who really stand still? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 09:23:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Stok Subject: Concert sound I went to the gig at the Royal Albert Hall on the 18th and enjoyed it immensely (even though I skipped the CGT to catch up on events with an old friend.) The thing that struck me most was that despite the sound being loud & clean the drums seemed to lack definition - I'm one of the people who quite enjoy Bill Bruford's subtle bits 'n' pieces - it was odd to watch both him and Pat Mastelotto doing things and hear little if any evidence of their work (but at least the intro to Indiscipline proved that the Simmons was plugged in & turned on ;-)... I wouldn't want the drums to dominate the mix, but having been teased by the live Red on the Dinosaur single it would be nice to have heard a little more or the percussive noises. Maybe in Boston... Now to see how many washes the tour T-shirts can handle! Mike -- The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply. | Meiko Mike Stok | 130C Baker Ave. Ext Mike dot Stok at meiko dot concord dot ma dot us | Concord, MA 01742 Meiko tel: (508) 371 0088 x124 | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 09:05:11 -0600 From: keeks at maroon dot tc dot umn dot edu (Tom Keekley) Subject: Letterman? What happened? At least Annie Lennox is pretty cool, so I wasn't TOTALLY bummed. . . . Any ideas? Tom Keekley - Minneapolis keeks at maroon dot tc dot umn dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 19:36:38 +0200 From: Finney Mark Subject: MISC: I say tomato and you say tomato This spelling of unauthoriz(s)ed is probably trivial but I thought I'd throw in my obsessive 2 cents worth. The claim that -ise constructions are British english is a confabulation of the worthless spelling checkers that lurk in word-processing programmes. One can debate which dictionary is authoritative for American English, but when it comes to British English there is only one reference - the Oxford English Dictionary. It consistently uses -ize in verbs, including authorize. Claims for -ise are based on Francophillic perverters of the language. Fowler's Modern English Usage also lists a number of reasons to favour -ize: 1) Most verbs ending in -ize descend from the Greek -izo. 2) The OED, Cambridge University Press, The Times and Americans use -ize 3) It's pronounced -ize, not -ise! Befitting an old and polyglot language like English there are some exceptions (based on etymology) but authorize ain't won of'em! A linguistic obsessive/compulsive King Crimson fan. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 19:15:15 -0400 From: Derkland at aol dot com Subject: MISC: Definitive Versions I'd like to put my two cents in about Fripp and his supposed Definitive Editions. First, Matte Kudasai is missing the serene Fripp solo the snakes its way through much of the song. All you get is Belew's slide. Second, on the 1989 Definitive Edition of Exposure I've noticed that Terry Roche's voice on Mary is reverbed way out. In my opinion this wrecks the song. The voice needs to be sweet and in your voice; reverb puts it deep in the mix with an ominous ambiance. I remember reading an interview with Fripp once and he said he absolutely hated reverb, especially on voices. So what gives here? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: j dot ppontorier at genie dot geis dot com Date: Wed, 24 May 95 03:12:00 UTC Subject: THRAK: More "THRAK-TALK" and misc. I've been reading some of the interviews in the past 3 news letters about the album "THRAK". I respect that everyone has an opinion... BUT isn't it GREAT that KC is alive and touring in our 1995 lives? I was a late comer to KC and when I got heavey into it, the band was no longer around... I'm extatic that I'm going to get to get to actually see KING CRIMSON live !! And NOT in the "HAS-BEEN" form that we've see some of these other old bands tooling around the stadium circuit. This Crimson is as fresh as any I've heard. I listen to the live cut of "RED" from th DINOSOUR cd and id sends chills down my spine. ( I've been putting it up against the 1974 version all week-they're each exciting ). As far as "PEOPLE"- that's one of my favorite morning song to start my day--The feeling is SO POSITIVE throughout the THRAK. I get to see it JUNE 8th in Cleveland ( the night after I see Ian Anderson at Music Hall). I'll send a set list along. -John Pontoriero [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Brian Thomson Subject: MISC: Fripp as editor? Date: Wed, 24 May 95 09:12:00 PDT >Is it true (or possible) that Fripp is an editor of a popular magazine? > If so, which one? I know that RF was a contributing editor to the (US) Musician magazine, not too long ago. They mentioned this after they left RF out of their list of 100 top guitarists, only for him to voted in overwhelmingly by the mag's readers. Their excuse? They were "overcompensating" to avoid accusations of favouritism... briant [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: DR MJ EVERETT Organization: The University of Birmingham Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 09:18:51 BST Subject: MISC: The Great Deceiver Greetings Crimsoids I have delurked. Oh what fun. In response to last issue's "Is the Great Deceiver really worth it?" I have to state that this is one of the most awsome, brooding, brilliant albums I have ever heard, and its all live. So what if some of the tracks are repeated, they all have their different character and mood. The best way to listen to it is on the headphones with the volume turned way up. It scares the hell out of me! Once I was lying on the bed with the headphones on, completely lost in the intensity of Fracture with adrenaline surging through my body, at which point my wife came home and seeing me lying on the bed bent over to give me a surprise kiss. Just at that point I happened to open my eyes to see this other pair one inch from my face. I screamed the place down, much to my wife's initial shock and ultimate amusement. At such close range even my wife's lovely visage took on an uncanny likeness to the monster on the cover of "In The Court.." I recently saw KC at the Royal Albert. I was a bit pissed off to spot quite a few empty seats around the place. I was stuck up in the back row of the upper circle having been told that they were the last seats left. The gig was great but the sound was a bit hollow way up there. I wonder if it was much better down in the stalls. Keep up the good work. Martin " Only Crimson can do this, because Crimson reaches the parts other bands cannot reach." ********************************************************************** Martin J. Everett, PhD Antimicrobial Agents Research Group (ARG) Department of Infection The Medical School University of Birmingham Birmingham B15 2TT UK Tel: (44) 021 414 6969 Fax: (44) 021 414 6966 Email: m dot j dot everett at bham dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 24 May 95 15:51:37 +0200 From: czajka at merkury dot atm dot com dot pl (Jacek Czajka) Subject: crimson videos hello I`m looking some informations about videos of KC. Could someone help me? dino [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 22 May 95 10:45:57 GMT From: Erik Hitters Subject: GIG REVIEW (SPOILER!): 15.05.1995 THE HAGUE, CONGRESSGEBOUW As nobody seems to be reviewing the The Hague show, I thought I might as well come out in the open. I was at the concert on monday May 15th in the Congresgebouw in The Hague (not in Amsterdam, as listed on previous ET's) The concert was great, I considered myself very lucky, being able to see KC for the first time. As a long time fan, especially of KC II and KC III, I never thought I would live to see these guys on stage. The set list was presumably the same as the one on the night before (Bxl). They only played two encores however, (no heartbeat, too bad). Musically, I was very impressed by their skills on stage, realizing that THRAK and VROOOM are, although of course mixed and remixed, very true to their abilities. These guys are great musicians. I especially loved the interplay between Mastoletto and Bruford, absolutely brilliant, as if this was one drummer with four arms and four legs. Gunn and Levin were somewhat more on their own, both taking up a more specific place in the spectrum of sound. Belew was very much in control, he was dancing and smiling and singing and playing, actually, he was the only one moving on stage. Master Fripp, was seated out front, in the dark, sitting perfectly still, as if he were not there. Looking back, I remember the KC III songs better than the THRAK songs. They seem to be more developed and complex and more challenging to the ear, whereas the THRAK songs seems to get a little bombastic from time to time, losing subtlety and finesse. Nevertheless, this last remark may even be a result of the venue. IMHO, this place is the worst place for a rock concert in the country. It may be suited for a congress, but not for KC. I was sitting on row 25, which turned out to be about a mile from the stage. This concert was definitely NOT LOUD ENOUGH. The sound was probably lost somewhere halfway the hall, giving me the impression that the people in the front were attending a different concert that I was. I could not get INTO the music. I think this can also account for the somewhat lazy audience, not being able to connect to what was going on on stage, resulting in only two encores. Still, it was great seeing them (be it from a distance). Any comments from other The Hague-goers are of course welcome. Erik # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Erik Hitters Phone: +3130.537786 # # Universiteit Utrecht Home: +3130.546005 # # FSW/ASW Mail: hitters at fsw dot ruu dot nl # # POB 80140 (hitters at fsw-extern dot fsw dot ruu dot nl) # # NL 3508 TC Utrecht # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 17:32:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher L Beury Subject: TICKETS: ONE TICKET NEEDED!!!: Washington D.C. Looking for one ticket for the June 7th show at Warner theater in Washington D.C.. Any seat. I like many from the south hope to travel to see the group before there return tour. If someone one had a spare please send me a not at my email address: beurych at grove dot ufl dot edu . I would really appreciate it as I am visiting family in the area at the time and missed out on getting a ticket in advance. Thanks. Long live the Crimson King, Chris L. Beury 904-378-9734 U of F [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: b dot gingrich at genie dot geis dot com Date: Wed, 24 May 95 04:12:00 UTC Subject: TICKETS: Need Kalamazoo ticket I'm looking for 1 ticket in the mezzanine or main floor for the Kalamazoo show on 6/12. I'll pay at least the face value. Contact me at brian dot gingrich at isl dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 22:46:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jason Klein Subject: TICKETS: NYC Hello. Looking for two tix to the NYC show, either day. Wishing.... Call me about information: (305) 452-6513, and ask (or leave a message) for Jay. Also, any information on if KC's going to be playing anywhere in the Southeast? Thanks. Jason Klein jklein at alpha dot acast dot nova dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]