From elephant-talk at arastar dot comThu May 11 06:41:26 1995 Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 22:24:54 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 # Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk #187 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 187, Monday, 8 May 1995 Today's Topics: THRAK: Who's on which side on VROOOM THRAK: The artifice of comparison of tracks from THRAK and VROOOM MISC: Cross; Thrak; Sinfield THRAK: THIS IS A SYSTEM?!? MISC: Lineup complaints and vampires. THRAK: Sounds THRAK: the Fripp is Gone MISC: "Court" sound quality MISC: THRAK and Vancouver show MISC: Fripp: humor MISC: Christgau's Record Guide MISC: Cincinnati MISC: Answering Fishboy's query THRAK: Thrak on vinyl? CA tour dates? THRAK: another connection to older KC stuff MISC: Re: Alternate orders MISC: A neat review, what the THRAK object is, Redophilia. . . . MISC: Belew and the other lyricists MISC: Re: Sinfield post-Crimson MISC: Re: LYRICS THRAK: CD Sleeve THRAK: What goes Thrak? MISC: MISC: Re. ET #185 MISC: Elephant-talk digest v95 #185 MISC: 17'' of silence, Neurotica and VROOOM MISC: Feelings on Thrak,Guo Bros, RI 19th Invite MISC: [not] listening to the music MISC: Belew-Lennon Connection? THRAK: Thoughts DISCOG: AAA sampler MISC: Fripp out front MISC: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #185 THRAK: the mind builds its world by associative construction: psychedelia MISC: Performance Videos GIG REVIEW (SPOILER!): KC-Milan 2/5/95 - Review ! GIG REVIEW (SPOLIER!): KC in Duesseldorf GIG REVIEW (SPOILER!): Crimson in Duesseldorf! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Hi. Some ET readers may have recently received a junk email "good luck chain letter". This apparently came about from someone using an account of one of our readers, without his knowledge. It has nothing to do with ET, I promise! -- Toby Apologies for the delay of this digest to American/Canadian subscribers. --Myra (Temporary American list manager) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] >From sanderso at gac dot edu Thu May 4 01:13:17 1995 Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 19:16:33 -0500 To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson) Subject: THRAK: Who's on which side on VROOOM John Nash wondered who was on which side in the stereo separation on VROOOM. I do not know for sure, but I have my reasons to believe that it is as they are divided in the instrumentation credits under the CD in the case: LEFT RIGHT Fripp Belew Gunn Levin Mastelotto Bruford This seems clear to me, as the guitar styles are pretty easily distinguished and seem to be divided this way. I hear stick in the left channel and bass in the right, and while I am not yet familiar with Mastelotto's particular style, the drums in the right channel sound like Bruford's kit. While I'm on the topic, just let me say that I LOVE this album! I also am very excited about the live tracks I've heard on the "Dinosaur" single... that CD is ALMOST as long as VROOOM (and only $7)!!! _____________________________________________________________________________ Scott T. Anderson Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, MN E-mail: sanderso at gac dot edu World Wide Web: http://www.gac.edu/~sanderso "Ignorance has always been something I excel in." -- King Crimson, "Dinosaur" ____________________________________________________________________________ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 19:19:15 -0500 From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson) Subject: THRAK: The artifice of comparison of tracks from THRAK and VROOOM Many people here and on alt.music.progressive seem to have been comparing tracks that were duplicated on THRAK and VROOOM, saying things like, "I like the VROOOM version of 'One Time' a lot more than the THRAK version." That's all well and good. But WHY bother comparing them? If you like something better on VROOOM than THRAK, then LISTEN TO VROOOM! I am glad they did things differently, because now I have two great (and DIFFERENT) recordings of "One Time," etc. My point is simply this: Why not enjoy the differences? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 95 11:02 BST From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: MISC: Cross; Thrak; Sinfield > From: steedb at er4 dot eng dot ohio-state dot edu (Brian David Steed) > Subject: QUERY: Cross inquiry > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 10:41:08 EDT > > Can anyone tell me about the David Cross solo album? I can't find it > anywhere, and I've always wondered what became of him after KC. Why they > booted him out I'll never know.... There are three: Memos from Purgatory, The Big Picture, and Testing to Destruction. Recommended. You will have to mail order them, no doubt. Perhaps ranjit at netcom dot com has them? > Date: 29 Apr 95 03:26:50 EDT > From: Rob & Traci Moore <74072 dot 224 at compuserve dot com> > Subject: THRAK: Sounds on THRAK lyric sheet > > In case anyone hasn't commented yet, the sounds listed under the lyrics > correspond to the sounds made by the objects pictured on the other side of > the lyric. (i.e. VROOM=car, snap=bone, bang=gun, etc.) > > Which begs the question, what is the object pictured that makes the sound > THRAK? The symbol stands for King Crimson, so KC is the thing that goes THRAK. > Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 15:02:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Matthew F. McCabe" > Subject: MISC: a stupid observation.... > > Anybody else notice that unauthorized is spelled incorrectly on the Thrak > CD? Oops!! It is spelled correctly on my CD: "unauthorised". Perhaps you are mistaking an alternate spelling for an incorrect one? > Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 12:47:21 +0000 > From: br at inf dot rl dot ac dot uk > Subject: MISC: Re: Sinfield post-Crimson > > This might not be the same Pete Sinfield, but... > > seen on Teletext last night (Channel 4, p.628 - will have changed by today): > > "You might not know that... > > Currently-hip Canadian Celine Dion won the Eurovision Song Contest in > 1988... for Switzerland. > > But then, Think Twice [her winning song, presumably] was written by Andy > Hill and Pete Sinfield, who also wrote many of Bucks Fizz's hits." > > Shurely shome mishtake?! If not, quite a long way from Crimso! Yes, it is one and the same. -- Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) Web users, try: http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/ronc/index.html [Includes pages on my research, & music: my collection, wants & for sale] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Bill Moxim" Organization: Univ. of Alabama at Birmingham Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 09:47:42 -600 Subject: THRAK: THIS IS A SYSTEM?!? Rex Fermier (ID0510 at ibbs1 dot com) sez: :Well I went to the local Coconuts Records store to purchase THRAK. : ... :So the question I have is, "Why are so few copies being distributed?" :Is this how things normally work? ..and a good question it is! I went to two of my local shops, a Blockbuster Music and a Camelot, only two days after the street date (4/25) and both were out of stock! Upon asking why I was told, by -both-, that they only received ONE COPY of the disc - but that they were expecting more in a couple days. What gives? Either way I have a good friend who runs a local record shop that let me have his PROMO copy! So I got to listen to it anyway. Now to find Dinosaur... Ciao! - Bill [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 12:28:05 -0400 From: mpc at mbsmm dot com (Mark Clements) Subject: MISC: Lineup complaints and vampires. Greetings, one and all. I'd like to de-lurk and throw out some comments out into the void. As I've been reading all the whining about the current lineup these past few months, and then the complaints about Adrian Belew's pop influences on the band and music, something struck me. Isn't this the behavior that Mr. Fripp would characterize as a "vampiric" relationship with performers? I mean, none of us can stake any claim to this band, other than we enjoy the music they produce. Some of the comments on this list the past few months left me with the impression that some felt Mr. Fripp was being insubordinate by choosing the players he did: How *dare* he work with these people? This does not mesh with *my* plans for the band!! Such a sense of ownership. As I'm sure everyone is aware, King Crimson does not make music for us. They make music for the only reward a musician receives: "the privilege of standing in the presence of music when it leans over and takes us into its confidence". Sure, they'll take our money from album & ticket sales - They have needs like food and shelter too. But hey, we don't have to shell out the money unless we want to. That's our choice. So, if you like it, wonderful. If you dislike it, also wonderful. But don't dislike it because of the musicians, because they are irrelevant. Dislike it because the music they produce doesn't move you. And if the music doesn't tickle your fancy, don't be disappointed and insulted that Crimson has let you down. Acknowledge the fact that they simply are exploring a part of the musical landscape that does not interest you, and move on. Just my $.02 -- Mark Clements mpc at mbsmm dot com "Arf, she said." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 10:07:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "William C. Wolford" Subject: THRAK: Sounds The picture corresponding to the cover of THRAK seems to be a metal pipe which was scraped or ground by something causing a hole. Looks like aluminum. Anyway the sound of metal scraping suddenly against something like a grinder or cement would definately be a THRAK. BW [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 04 May 95 10:12:58 PDT From: emud at brookscole dot com Subject: THRAK: the Fripp is Gone Note: I have been an avid Cromson proponent for 15 years or so. I believe Robert Fripp is a genius. My favorite early Crimson records are Red, ITCotCC, LTiA, and Islands, in that orderI have agreed with Adrian Belew's contributions to 80-84 KC (that incarnation would have been impossible without him), enjoyed Belew's early solo work, and have followed Tony Levin and Trey Gunn's paths with admiration and interest. And I have been reading this digest for the past year or so: In other words, I have been foaming at the mouth ever since I heard the boys were back in the studio and going out on the road. And I bought THRAK the other day. Adjectives? Commercial. Safe. Pop. Conventional. Nostalgic. Weak. I'm sorry for having to say this, but even sorrier to have to live with this let-down. This album (although quite good in the context of other "prog" or mainstream rock products--except for, maybe, Primus) does not come anywhere close to living up to Fripp's potential. I'm also sorry to say Belew's mushy, humorous, wanna-be-a-pop-star-like-Paul McCartney sensibilities (and obvious free reign) has integrally damaged King Crimson. I'm embarrased and unwilling to play this CD for my friends or on the radio, and I find no compelling compositional or instrumental reason to listen to it more than a few times (although god knows I'm trying.) There is nothing special about anything on this production. This is a first. Shame on Robert Fripp. I have been watching him work with some of the most interesting minds in music these days (IMO)-- the Orb (FFWD), Future Sound of London, Cheika Remitti, the Grid, League of Crafty Guitarists, RFSQ, etc.-- and one would think he could have applied what he has learned and developed from these expansive alliances to the new Crimson. There is nothing of those experiences to be found here: what happened? Fripp seems to have just become Belew's errand boy, this time around. This is alarming, depressing, and a real pisser, believe me. Larry Molmud emud at brookscole dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 95 12:41:51 EDT From: jh at cadre dot com (Joe Hartley) Subject: MISC: "Court" sound quality > From: msmith at crt dot doj dot gov > I recently bought the Virgin picture disc box set of the first three Crimso > albums. I got it mainly because i wanted the remastered editions, > especially _Court_. For years one of the biggest problems I had with _Court_ was the sound quality. Much of this has to do with the amazingly ambitious musical effort being squeezed into four teeny little tracks in 1969. Even so, it's always seemed to me that (almost) no-one's ever been able to capture this album in a great pressing. I've had at various times no fewer than 5 or 6 different versions of this album, all with their idiosyncracies. The EG Masters edition (on vinyl) actually seemed to be one of the worst, with a hissy and distorted sound to it. I haven't liked any of the CD versions, either, although they're better. My absolute favorite is a record shrouded in mystery: it's a Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs (MFSL) half-speed master. If you're even a passing audiophile, you've seen their stuff with the easily recognised half-inch strip at the top with the words "original half-speed master". If you're old enough to remember the days before CD's and had a good stereo, then you'll probably remember their reputation. They'd get the original master tape for an album, and make a master for pressing an LP at half the normal speed for better sound. And it worked; their albums always sounded GREAT. Now, the mystery: I'd mentioned this to a local record store owner one day, and he said that there wasn't such an animal. He had a MFSL catalog, and it wasn't there. Some large book he had which seemed to be a comprehensive list of records ever released showed no trace of this puppy - he stopped short of calling me a liar, but insisted that I was mistaken. But I'm not-it's got the MFSL logo on it. My only guess is that the tape was released to MFSL without Mr. Fripp's authorisation, and was pulled at some point. Does anybody have any more info on this mystery disk? BTW, it's only been played 3 times, each time on an audiophile system to make a tape, which *still* sounds better than most pressings! ========================================================================== Joe Hartley - jh at cadre dot com - Cadre Technologies, Inc. Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - Frank Zappa Loostner's Castor Oil Flakes - The All-weather Breakfast! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 10:33:33 -0700 From: ifisher at unixg dot ubc dot ca (Ian Fisher) Subject: MISC: THRAK and Vancouver show I just picked up THRAK last week and must say that it's up to expectations if not beyond! I would concurr with those who find the sound a bit busy at times but there is still enough "breathing room" to give the bone-crunching pieces the contrast they need. Good stuff and the lyrics generally measure up. Too bad that "Cage" didn't make it though - it had a good message about the US infatuation with segregating society. The Vancouver June 21 KC concert venue has been changed from The Vogue (as per the WWW server) to the Orpheum. This is a good sign as the Orphuem is larger with 2,795 seats in a restored vaudeville theatre. (Makes me think of The Great Deceiver box photo!) I bought *a* ticket yesterday and got a seat in the 6th row of the balcony (above about row 17 in the orchestra seats). Any other KC fans on the list in this wonderful city? ------------ Ian Fisher ifisher at unixg dot ubc dot ca President, Transport 2000 British Columbia Vancouver, BC, Canada Telephone/Fax: (604)681-3192 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Randy Long -- Personal Account Subject: MISC: Fripp: humor Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 13:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Thought my fellow et'rs would appreciate this: Knock Knock Who's there? Bennett and Gurjief Bennett and Gurjief who? I do not know these people to whom you are referring -----------------------------------------------Ben Tropy, VOP-------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 11:05:19 -0700 From: walters at digidesign dot com (Tim Walters) Subject: MISC: Christgau's Record Guide Art asks: >Anybody remember (or have) the King Crimson reviews in Robert Christgau's >record guide? They were pretty atrocious, as I recall. Actually, he only hated the early stuff. He liked the Wetton/Bruford period, and gave _Red_ an A. Tim Walters Demiurge Core Dump Records walters at digidesign dot com or walters at mills dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 13:51:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Larry R. Nittler" Subject: MISC: Cincinnati Hello to any Crimso fans in Cincinnati and sorry to everybody else for taking up space. I am driving from St. Louis to see the KC show in Cinc. and would like to know if anyone would have a floor for me and a friend to crash on after the show. Thanks, Larry ___________________________________________________________________________ | Larry R. Nittler Human beings were invented by water as | | lrn at howdy dot wustl dot edu a means of transporting itself from | | Interstellar Dust Buster one place to another. -- Tom Robbins | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 14:14:14 -0500 From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson) Subject: MISC: Answering Fishboy's query I will do what I can with these questions... >This third one puzzles me - were all the albums remixed, or just >remastered? If they were all remixed there should be little differences >all over the place. Most bands just remaster, so this seems a little odd. I don't know if they were all remixed, but I have my suspicions... regarding "Matte Kudasai," it seems that an entire guitar part has been removed from the song on the Definitive Edition. Also, on the song "Cirkus" from Lizard, there is a slightly out-of-tune electric guitar part on the original that I find totally absent from the Definitive. And the last thing I can add on the Definitive Editons: The missing coda from "Islands" was replaced onto later copies of the album. As far as I can tell, there is nothing to distinguish the two other than listening. (I used to have the one without the coda; at one point I sold it. Then I bought a used copy somewhere, and that one, which I have now, has the coda.) >My next question is about the officially released live material: what (if >any) overlap is there between the live recordings found on _S&BB_, _Red_, >_USA_, _Frame by Frame_, and _The Great Deceiver_? Actually, now that I >think of it I could probably just reword this - what dates was USA recorded >on? The LP only says 6/74. I know the boxed sets have all the songs >dated, and I'm pretty sure the dates of the shows where the live stuff from >S&BB and Red was recorded is mentioned in the band history-liner notes from >FBF. Looks like I have some web-browsing to do... :) (See, I don't own the >boxed sets (yet).) USA was recorded on 28 June 1974 in Asbury Park, NJ (hence the improv with that title, just like "Providence," which was recorded on the next night in Providence, RI). Lots of people think disc one of TGD (29 June 1974, Providence, and incidentally the very day my fiancee was born) is the same concert as USA, but I challenge that for the reasons listed above. Some of S&BB was recorded at the Royal Concertgebouw in Amsterdam. None of that is on TGD. BUT, "We'll Let You Know" was an improv, and is on both (from Glasgow, 23 Oct '73). I do not know the dates of the live stuff on FbF, but I would volunteer a guess that it is from the Asbury Park concert. And of course, the "Providence" improv on disc one of TGD is the same "Providence" that is on Red. _____________________________________________________________________________ Scott T. Anderson Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, MN E-mail: sanderso at gac dot edu World Wide Web: http://www.gac.edu/~sanderso "Ignorance has always been something I excel in." -- King Crimson, "Dinosaur" ____________________________________________________________________________ _ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 95 12:09:50 PDT From: acrespi at InterServ dot Com Subject: THRAK: Thrak on vinyl? CA tour dates? I am a long time (15+yrs) KC fan, and a newbie to ET (having read just the last few issues). I am trying to find out if THRAK has been pressed on vinyl LP anywhere in the world. I anyone has seen a copy, please let me know right away with a retailer phone #, etc. Also, I live in a rural area of California and don't get the big calendar newspapers; Can someone please tell me the dates and locations of KC tour dates in California? I am particularly interested in Northern California, Bay Area shows. Please reply to these questions to my e-mail address directly at: acrespi at interserv dot com I only log onto ET about once a week, but read my mail daily. Thanks in advance. [ This is a FAQ. Please see ftp://cs.man.ac.uk/pub/toby/elephant-talk/kc-tourdates-95 for the full information. But, here's the relevant bit anyway: 24 Sat San Francisco, CA Warfield Theater 25 Sun San Francisco, CA Warfield Theater 26 Mon San Francisco, CA Warfield Theater 27 Tue - 28 Wed San Diego, CA Symphony Hall 29 Thur Los Angeles, CA Wiltern Theater 30 Fri Los Angeles, CA Wiltern Theater -- Toby ] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 14:32:16 -0500 From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson) Subject: THRAK: another connection to older KC stuff I know THRAK has been talked about ad nauseum, but this IS a King Crimson/Robert Fripp newsgroup, and this is the first new KC album to be released during its existence, so let's celebrate! Anyway, I am making this specific post to note a similarity between some of the random sounds that go on in "VROOOM VROOOM: Coda" with those that occur in "Garden of Worm" from "The Devil's Triangle" on In the Wake of Poseidon. Anyone else notice this? Also, if someone with a little music theory training will open my eyes to the purported similarity between "Dinosaur" and "Cirkus" in techinical terms, I'd appreciate it. Finally, I'd like to support Michael Feathers's statement that the "Dinosaur" single is worth getting. As far as I am concerned, the live versions of "Elephant Talk" and "Red" are the BEST I've ever heard. _____________________________________________________________________________ Scott T. Anderson Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, MN E-mail: sanderso at gac dot edu World Wide Web: http://www.gac.edu/~sanderso "Ignorance has always been something I excel in." -- King Crimson, "Dinosaur" ____________________________________________________________________________ _ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 09:52:33 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James) Subject: MISC: Re: Alternate orders >I have seen one CD only in which the band offers a "suggested listening >order" which differs from the regular one. This is "Sleeping Bootie" by >Montreal's Bootsauce. I thought their alternative order was way better! I was amazed to find that the CD release of the Beatles Sgt. Pepper has an "Alternate Running Order" listed - the order the Beatles apparently wanted the tracks to be in. I've tried it both orders - standard and suggested, and was amazed to find the suggested order improved what was already a remarkable album! (just thought I'd pass that on) Cheers, James James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago. Ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand pixelphone james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz / steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807 * You talk to me as if from a distance * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time, * from another time (Brian Eno) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:59:51 -0500 From: thequail at cthulhu dot microserve dot com (The Great Quail) Subject: MISC: A neat review, what the THRAK object is, Redophilia. . . . I am trying to find a review of Three of a Perfect Pair that I saw in Kerrang! Magazine after it came out - the review sort of summed up a lot, and could almost be used for THRAK. heh heh Does anyone remember what issue? (ouch.) I am looking for my old copy, and If I find it, would anyone be interested in my posting it? Or would that be too long (it was very funny. . . ) By the way, am I the *only* person on this list who does *not* think "Red" was their best album? The end jams are great, though. I much prefer Lark's tongues and Starless! (from that period - my real favorites are Islands, Lizards, Discipline, and THRAK. oh - who really cares? sorry.) Jeez, with all this Redophilia I feel paranoid. . . . Also - it is very very obvious what the picture behind THRAK is. It is the result of a flying teapot that went from VROOOM to THRAK in 4.21 seconds. . . . ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail | TheQuail at cthulhu dot microserve dot com rivverrun Discordian Society | AOL: LordArioch at aol dot com c/o Allen Ruch | Sarnath - The Quailspace Web Page: 315 Second Street | http://www.microserve.com/~thequail Enola, PA 17025 | ** What is Fegmania? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 18:02:01 -0500 From: thequail at cthulhu dot microserve dot com (The Great Quail) Subject: MISC: Belew and the other lyricists Scott Lillis writes: >It may just be Adrians lyrics, but the >percentage of lyircs I REALLY LOVE are lower with Adrian. I was really >bothered by this on the EP. To me Inner Garden represents the sadness >of KC that seems to be lurking under the surface so often. With Adrian, >there is a much more, well...silly aspect to the lyrics that looses the >intensity, though it's still brought out in the music. The songs like >Starless, Exiles, and Night Watch had an emotions impact that made the >guitar solos in those songs all the sadder and more beautiful. Well, I agree that Sinfield and P-J had tremendous lyrics, but I truly think that they would be woefully misuited for the 1980-1995 KC. I don't really think Adrian's are "silly," but I rather think they perfectly reflect a sort of schizophrenic ideal that the music drives home. Sort of Lennon meets Byrne. While Sinfield *penned* 21st CSM, Adrian's lyrics sound like they are *coming* from the schizoid man himself! They reflect the chancy, choppy nature of modern angst (sorry - whenever you bring a German word into it, it gets too serious!) and all that stuff. I mean, Lament and Exiles and the others are haunting, but they were always a but too ordinary, I thought, compared to the music. Now, Belew's seem to *incarnate* the music. I always thought that KC brought out the best in his lyrics and singing. Just my opinion . . . . thanks. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:07:34 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James) Subject: MISC: Re: Sinfield post-Crimson >This might not be the same Pete Sinfield, but... > >seen on Teletext last night (Channel 4, p.628 - will have changed by today): > "You might not know that... > Currently-hip Canadian Celine Dion won the Eurovision Song Contest in > 1988... for Switzerland. > But then, Think Twice [her winning song, presumably] was written by Andy > Hill and Pete Sinfield, who also wrote many of Bucks Fizz's hits." >Shurely shome mishtake?! If not, quite a long way from Crimso! Shurely it is a long way... about as far as Cher's Heart of Stone album, much of which was written by our very own Pete Sinfield. He's also narrated at least one talking book (Eno music used for the background, too), an sf novel by J.G.Ballard. James [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: (freedom now) Organization: Oblique Strategies Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 18:52:26 + 700 Subject: MISC: Re: LYRICS ) I'm not going to flame, but I am suprised. I always thought the worst thing ) about early Crimson (and ELP) was Sinfield's lyrics. I always considered ) them an embarassing blemish on some really fine instrumental music. I say ) good riddance; Palmer James and Belew are miles ahead. I guess I'll voice a contrary opinion! I happen to think Sinfield was an excellent lyricist. Not that every word or lyric he wrote was his best, but take for example, songs like In The Wake Of Poseidon, Pictures Of A City, Epitaph, MoonChild, The Court Of The Crimson King, Formentera Lady, Islands, Prince Rupert Awakes, Happy Family, The Song Of Seagoat, The Piper, House Of Hopes and Dreams, and Karn Evil 9. The thing is, Crimson has always been a band that changes gears when they "outgrow" a certain mode or have done enough of a certain style of music. Islands was about as far down that road as they could effectively go with that style of music (at that time). Hence change is or was inevitable. Imo of course. I'm probably biased due to the fact that Poseidon was my first Crimson album (back in 1972). Okay, I'll admit it, I still do like those first few early period Crimson albums betten than anything else Crimson has done. So it's not surprizing that I find Thrak disappointing. I especially didn't like the lyrics or vocals. On the other hand, I particularly enjoyed the String Quartet cds (The Bridge Between and Soundscape). Bob [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Frank Joseph Hughes Date: Thu, 04 May 95 22:20:23 -700 Subject: THRAK: CD Sleeve I haven't seen mention of the most interesting connection on the sleeve of THRAK. The backwards words in white, one on each panel of the sleeve, correspond to the sound of the picture opposite. Check it out if you haven't already. Pretty sneaky, eh? (: Frank aka CoNfUsIoN [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 17:04:43 +1300 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James) Subject: THRAK: What goes Thrak? > In case anyone hasn't commented yet, the sounds listed under the lyrics > correspond to the sounds made by the objects pictured on the other side of > the lyric. [...] Which begs the question, what is the object pictured that > makes the sound THRAK? It's the cover of a King Crimson album. King Crimson is the object that goes Thrak :) James [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 23:14:20 +0800 (PST) From: chris mahmood Subject: MISC Hi, Thrak is, well...a new K.C. album. I'm still not sure how to react to all of this being only 22 and not of age when discipline came out. I expected to be absolutely blown away by this like I was the first time I heard KC (Discipline) but for some reason I'm not. Don't get me wrong, i'm not slagging the band/album AT ALL..I love more everytime I hear it w/ the exception of the chorus in People and One Time (which, like Heartbeat, I skip). Actually, ignore what i just said--b'boom just came on and corrected me; Is anyone else reminded of the intro to Hawaii 5.0? I don't want to bring up an old topic, but all of the whining about paying for Vroom and Thrak really bothered me. We constantly complain about Fripp's bootleg policy and lack of recorded KC, but when we get it we don't want to pay. Personally, ANYTHING Fripp put out I would pay whatever the price was to get. There was no deception; Vroom was advertised as a "calling card" meaning that Thrak is the real product and the rest would have wound up in a vault somewhere if it wasn't for our demand. See you at the Wiltern, -CKM [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 May 95 09:49:56 BST From: cbackham at uk dot mdis dot com (Clive Backham) Subject: MISC: Re. ET #185 "Matthew F. McCabe" wrote: > Anybody else notice that unauthorized is spelled incorrectly on the Thrak > CD? Oops!! The British spelling is used. The replacement of the S with a Z in words ending "-ised" is a common Americanism (or should that be "Americanization" :-) msmith at crt dot doj dot gov wrote: > I recently bought the Virgin picture disc box set of the first three Crimso > albums..... However, > _Wake_ and _Lizard_ do not say they are remastered editions (_Court_ does). I don't have the picture discs, but if it gives you any comfort, the regular UK definitive editions of "Wake" and "Lizard" are not marked as such, while that of "Court" is, so it appears that the picture discs are similarly marked. A theory has recently struck me about the apparently random inclusion or otherwise of a "definitive edition" notice on the UK discs. Is it possible that Mr. Fripp decided that only those discs which he considered to have been significantly changed by the remastering process needed to be identified? * Court: sound quality *significantly* improved - marked * Larks Tongues: Bruford's comment at the end removed - marked * Discipline: guitar part removed from Matte Kudesai - marked * all other albums: sound quality not *that* different, and no change to content - therefore not marked Remember that I'm talking about the UK releases here. The fiasco involving the missing Islands studio chat never happened in the UK. "Simon O'Connor" wrote: >I have two tickets for the June 30th show in L.A., however one of my best >friends has just decided to get married the same damn day!!! With friends like this, who needs enemies? Clive Backham McDonnell Information Systems, UK email: cbackham at uk dot mdis dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 May 95 09:24 EST From: Phillip Samson <0005083314 at mcimail dot com> Subject: MISC: Elephant-talk digest v95 #185 Greeting Fellow Crimheads: After lurking for merely 2 weeks, I must jump into the fray. THRAK is a great recording. Other KC recordings are great. I fail to see the need for debate. If the Beatles are influential (which they are), then recognize them; if parts of THRAK & VROOOM replay musical lines from Red, so be it. The textures created by these brilliant musicians are timeless. Of course, as other ET posters have observed, good art ignites debate. As far as women & guitars go...control yourselves. My fiance is one of the best guitarists I've ever had the pleasure to hear (or see, for that matter). On the acoustic she plays classical, jazz, folk, and whatever comes to mind. On the electric, she'll kick your ass like 60 years in prison (credit: Wesley Willis -- Chicago's quasi-homeless rock artist). She's currently in 2 bands (Hot Heels & Lovey Howell) which have recordings out in locally in Chicago. Never in my life have I heard or seen a guitarist who pulls musical references from such extremes as she does. While you may think I'm biased because she's my fiance, keep in mind I'm also a guitarist/bassist & recording engineer; in other words, I'm very critical. There is no merit in the argument that women don't play guitar because it's a phallic symbol. As Frank Zappa observed, many (male) guitarists play the guitar as if it were their dick, but this does not make it so. It's not a "man/woman" thing; we're all people. To borrow a quote from a Chicago rapper (Deep Freeze): "we all bleed red." On to the Raisins/Bears/Dots: There should be no debate about Rob Fetters vs. Adrian Belew. Adrian has told me that it was Rob who taught Adrian the guitar neck bending with the headstock trick (or did I imagine that?). Rob is one of the best guitarists I've ever seen/heard. There is clearly a similarity in the songwriting Rob does & the songs Adrian does, but this does not mean that one is in the shadow of the other. I happen to be the proud owner of the Raisins cd, all Bears cd's, and all current Dots' cd's. Fortunately, Chicago is close enough to Cinci' to permit me to see shows when Rob, Bob, & Chris come to Chicago. For those of you with pop sensibilities, seek out these bands. If you can find their music, get it! You won't have any regrets. KC's Chicago show at the Bismark Theater should be quite a treat. The last time I was at the Bismark was for the FGTH show (commonly called "the sinking of the Bismark" for those of you who remember this); I hope nothing similar happens this time. My opinion about the stereo-panned double trio: Left channel: RF, TG, & BB. Right channel: AB, TL, & PM. Anyone have a definitive answer? Thanks for your attention. I welcome direct e-mail: psamson at mcimail dot com Phil --It's easy to understand/We hold each other's lives in our hands/Trust. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 13:32:02 +0200 From: vit0202 at comune dot bologna dot it (Aldo Brucale) Subject: MISC: 17'' of silence, Neurotica and VROOOM Hi fellow crimsoids! I've been reading ET for a few months now, but I'm posting for the first time, still shocked by the fact of being at the KC concert yesterday in Florence... Maybe in another posting I will tell you how frightening THRAK was, but for now I just want to expose a couple of lightier thoughts; 1. Don't the (circa) 18 seconds of silence before "VROOOM VROOOM:coda" sound(?) like the (circa) 18 seconds of silence before "Her Majesty", the closing tune of the Beatles' "Abbey Road"? Maybe I was influenced by "Dinosaur" and "Walking On Air", but that's the first thing I thought when I heard(?) it. 2. On ET#185 Matthew F. McCabe wrote: >3. Every time I hear the first few bars of "VROOOM," I start to sing >"Neurotica." I should have delurked earlier to be the first to report this... Well, a few days ago I was in my room, relaxing to the sound of Beat, when the VROOOM theme shyily emerged from the traffic of Neurotica, in the very same key !!! BTW, I'm surprised to hear that many people don't like Belew's lyrics. maybe it's because (as you probably noticed) English is not my first language, but take the lyrics to Neurotica, for example. To me they seem *much* more meaningful than most of the older lyrics. BTW II: I have transcribed the intro, arpeggios & final of VROOOM. If anyone is interested, just let me know. Ok, now I've got to get dressed to go out of my mind. -- ===vit0202 at iperbole dot bologna dot it=================Aldo Brucale=== [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 12:25:08 -0400 (EDT) From: MBRADBURN at NARVAX dot NAR dot EPA dot GOV Subject: MISC: Feelings on Thrak,Guo Bros, RI 19th Invite The excitement builds as evidenced by the last issues of ET. Thrak is just wonderful, so many moods and complexities permeate this recording. I do like some of the tracks on Vrooom better (like Vrooom) but I imagine some of those thoughts will change with repeated listenings. One thing that strikes me is the mix of Soundscape guitar into the Crimson stew. Is there any sounds this bands' pallete couldn't encompass. I don't wish to join the fray of why is isn't it more of A or more like B etc, but the discussions and tastes of ET punters is as interesting and diverse as the music they discuss I listen to alot of varied music but I havent been this excited about a tour/ recording like this for a long long time. In the same issue of Musician (May)that contained the recently posted review (ET 184) there was a couple of great photos of Robert. One with the Black Tokai Les Paul that accompanied the review and one with an Ovation as an endorsement photo for Trace Elliot Amps on the inside of the front cover. It is interesting the return of the Mellotron (as James Hines so apply stated - ET185- PS are you the Guitar-Craft James Hines, a friend of Randy Sharp - just curious) Have the technical problems of tuning etc somehow been overcome?. When picking up my copy of Thrak I also got a disc that I had seen at the Womad show last year. The band is the GUO Brothers, a Chinese group that has lived in London for some years and plays regularly at Covent Garden. The album features some other chinese musicians and a member of Clannad.It was recoreded at Real World, and has thanks to David Botrill! Any Crimhead would do well to check this disk out, very ambient with an eclectic mix of traditional Chinese folk/classical with modern extensions. It's on Real World, distributed by Caroline. Well that's all for now let's see the 19th I will be having some people over to watch Letterman so if your in the RI area and would like to join us drop me an email (mbradburn at narvax dot nar dot epa dot gov) and I'll get you directions. Thanks again to Robert and KC for 2 great disks, and Toby for his continued direction of ET. See you in the Orpheum Balcony... Waiting for the sun to come up.... Martin [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 14:05:05 -0400 From: Gerald Underhill Subject: MISC: [not] listening to the music for years, when i listened to new music, i would sit in the most optimum position, album cover in hand and pay close attention to the music. i missed out on alot of very good music. now i don't listen to the music. at least not actively. i "allow" the music to find a way to me. i was loaned a bob marley album, which i dutifully sat down and 'listened' to. i didn't like it, i couldn't find a way into the music (i didn't 'like' it , it wasn't like what i 'liked'). thinking that there was something wrong, i decided to just play it, while going about my normal activities. after several plays bob found his way into a favoured place in my music collection. i remember an eno interview were he said (paraphrased) that he had been 'listening' to joni mitchell's "blue" album for about five years and hadn't got around to the lyrics. is there something to not actively pursuing something? music in this case. reading the reviews expressed in "elephant- talk" (in some cases one 'listening') i am reminded of 'male premature ejaculation' ;-). take your time, i do, and am immensely rewarded for it. my method: do not 'listen' for at least three times. go about doing whatever comes naturally. if there is 'something' in the music for you, it will find you. gerald [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 06 May 95 14:18:10 EDT From: Suntower Systems <70242 dot 1520 at compuserve dot com> Subject: MISC: Belew-Lennon Connection? I have heard on THRAK and VROOOM the obvious John Lennon bit that Mr. Belew does now. Many have expressed opinions about the positive and negative aspects of this. My question isn't about good or bad, it's simply: 'Why is Adrian doing this?' Is it a trend started on his solo albums? (of which I've only heard Lone Rhino and Mr Music Head) Since KC is a very 'thought out' band, I assume there's some concept behind his aping that I just don't get. I mean, it's not like Adrian naturally sounds a lot like John Lennon: he -really- has to work at it. So... any ideas, anyone. Please no flames about the merits of his technique: I'm just interested in what got him so into this. It almost reminds me of how Andy Kaufman would 'become' another persona--and you couldn't tell what was the 'real' guy after a while. jc [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 06 May 95 14:18:17 EDT From: Suntower Systems <70242 dot 1520 at compuserve dot com> Subject: THRAK: Thoughts This is not a review per se'. Actually it is a response to the varied comments about THRAK I have read here: 1) More than one person has remarked on the jewel box being defective. I concur: obviously this is a design flaw. 2) I -liked- Pete Sinfield's stuff. A lot of comments have made it seem like the words are simply pasted onto finished musical backdrops, making them interchangeable. I am fairly certain that the imagery was part of the music- making from the ground up and therefore it is reasonable to assume that the music would have changed a lot had the words been different. Since I really like the music as is, I'd keep the words even if I didn't like 'em. Also, I think Pete's contributions to ELP's Brain Salad Surgery are about the best that prog-rock ever did--I mean, they aren't just artsty-craftsy, but also actually (heavens) mean something (apologies to Jon Anderson and all others on the same astral plan)! 3) Boy, the production on THRAK is really much clearer: You can actually hear the individual parts! I had my doubts about the sextet with VROOOM because with everybody playing, in places, it was all mud. No longer. 4) On the other hand, the balls have definitely gone out of several tunes, especially VROOOM. On the 'calling card', the opening notes slam into your face like a freight train--very 'live'. On the 'love letter', it's simply a studio-sounding wimpy guitar. 5) Adrian has so twisted his vocal style/lyric writing style that much of the beauty (hence, crossover potential) present in earlier albums is gone. 6) Dinosaur is wonderful, but where is 'Cage'--IMHO the best tune overall on VROOOM (and the most representative of what was good about the 80's group.) I'm feeling very verklempt: OK, Talk amongst youselves... discuss, discuss. jc [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 7 May 95 02:16:41 -0700 From: David A. Craig Subject: DISCOG: AAA sampler As it has not yet been mentioned, i'm passing on the following train-spotting: AAA SAMPLER: King Crimson (Virgin America DPRO-12722) Walking on Air (edit) 3:11 Inner Garden I 1:47 Inner Garden II 1:15 One Time 5:21 People (edit) 3:47 The front insert is the same photgraph as appears on the "dinosaur" cd single, but has a somehwat red caste to it. In fact, the cd even says "king crimson dinosaur" on it, but has the correct track listing (as above). [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ba07693 at bingsuns dot cc dot binghamton dot edu Subject: MISC: Fripp out front Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 12:41:10 -0400 (EDT) There's been a recent thread about the lack of Fripp as featured artist within the group setting. Those of you who want to hear Fripp, "lead guitarist", should pull out the Sunday All Over The World disc. Granted, this isn't the 'ferocious' Fripp, but it has some pretty good tunes with major Fripp featurage (after all, he's the only guitarist on the album) and some good (though short) guitar solos, e.g., Blood Bruise Tattoo, Transient Joy, Open Air, etc. For those of you who don't have it, I'd recommend it. Ms. Wilcox's vocals take a bit getting used to, but the album is great, in the vein of 80's KC. Paul Beavis is really sharp on the drums. I wonder what he is up to nowadays? Anyone out there know? Justin Weinberg ba07693 at bingsuns dot cc dot binghamton dot edu P.S. My nomination for the coolest lyric on _THRAK_ : "Navigation" (from Marine 475). [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 06 May 95 23:13:02 EDT From: "michael D. Jeter" Subject: MISC: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #185 just a few comments, btw, I hven't yet picked up thrak, and probably won't be a ble to see the band on tour...I pray that robert can see his way clear to keep the band together for a while, but right now, the economics make getting the al bu/seeing the show next to impossible for me....the main things that I want to say are1)Adrian is a brilliant musician with very particular talents, as is Joh n Wetton; there seem to be some of you lamenting that Adrian is on this Album. While I consider Adrian a genius, I think part of his genius is a)his sense of humor, and b) his willing ness to be vulnerable, to be open about his limitati ons...I remember how, when the eighties band was first formed, he kept saying h e didn't feel up to the task. To be that open and still be up to the task is i ncredible...as for his lyrics, I find Adrian to be a very sensitive writer, aga in b/c it is so innocent and un pretentious. Finally, and most importantly, I don't want to hear Wetton sing "Heartbeat" just as I am not sure I would want A drian to sing, say, SABB...although, I thnk Adrian, Wetton, and Tony in three-p art harmony on Sleepless would be incredible(talk about your KC Barbershop Quar tet:) Also, let me point out, that John's recorded output, post -Crimso, has seemed to be going more and more in a straight pop vein(When I first heard Asia's "The Smile has Left Your Eyes" I honestly thought it was Barry Manilow) Finally, I am actually saddened to hear that Bill and Alan will do the UK reuni on...I prefered the trio with Terry Bozzio...I didn't really care for that firs t uk Album...Now, a Holdsworth reunion that I would love to see is him reunitin with drummer Tony Williams, Which Allan once claimed was the only musical situa tion he was satisfied with....As for Bill, We got him right where we want him:- ) Michael:-) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 7 May 95 14:47:45 -0700 From: David A. Craig Subject: THRAK: the mind builds its world by associative construction: psychedelia *It is obvious, reading people's reviews, that this record appeals to us *all in different ways, and perhaps that is in the end the best *indication of a fine piece of work. * *daniel kirkdorffer *e#kirkd at ccmail dot ceco dot com That is without a doubt one of the wisest observations that has yet been made regarding the new record. Thank you for an extremely positive contribution! When encountering a new work for the first time, it is deeply human to experience it in terms of familiar stories. It is only after entering into a more extended and personal relationship that we begin to discover and construct a singular and meaningful personality for an artwork. (Does anyone remember how common it was when it first came out to observe that "discipline" was "just like the talking heads (only different)"? I'm not at all convinced that remains a particularly constructive light to view the king crimson of the eighties, at least not unless you're engaged in musical historiography. Of course, careful arguments to the contrary might prove enlightening.) That being said ;-> i've been waiting eagerly for someone to make the leap from "beatles" to "psychedelia" and point out what a distinctly *hendrix* like quality some of the songs from "thrak" possess. It shouldn't be required to say which .... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 13:18:00 -0700 From: SezZ at eworld dot com Subject: MISC: Performance Videos A friend of mine asked me to post this for him and handle any eMail replies. It might hold some interest for some readers. Thanks. CITADEL VIDEOS featuring TV Performances, Concert Footage, & Interviews of A Wide Variety of Bands & Artists Choose your own compilations on VHS SP For pricing and catalog requests send us a note at the following; Citadel Video's P.O. Box 1684 Tustin, CA 92681-1684 or send me your address/request at; SezZ at eWorld dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 09:19:55 -0700 From: ANDREA at eworld dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW (SPOILER!): KC-Milan 2/5/95 - Review ! I would like to" thank-you" all the people who expressed interest in the italian show. The show was SOLD OUT and it was opened by the California Guitar Trio; these three guys are fantastic ! Their new release was available outside the show at the "merchandise corner" with Trey Gunn "1000 Years". No Tony Levin CD available (sic ! Tony, if you're on-line, please, do something for Europe). I bought a Thrak back-cover t-shirt.... So, what did they play ? Lights went down, people were screaming and then............... VROOOM + Marine 475 Frame by Frame Dinosaur One time Red Radio I (RF Sounscapes) as intro for : B' Boom THRAK Matte Kudasai Sex, sleep, eat, drink, dream People VROOOM VROOOM Indiscipline Elephant talk (Bis I) Intro ?? The talking drum Larks Tongues in Aspic (part II) (Bis II) Dinosaur (yes, again...) Walking on Air The "six masters" seemed to be extremely fresh & happy to play together, lots of laughs & jokes between them, especially BB & PM going crazy on drums, pads etc..... these two, together, are the best rhythmn machine I've ever listen to. Their sound, live, is much better and more organized than on VROOOM or THRAK. Interplay was perfect, LOUD and clear ! I think that heavy-metal bands are not able to make more "Wall of Sound" than KC in these days !!! Tony Levin is always the rock-solid guy, it seems that nothing couldn't be done for him, he changed two or three basses, stick, upright bass; I really have a great respect for his work. Forget to see Mr. Fripp ! He is on the right side of the stage without any lights on him, also during his "soundscapes" break. We had the honour to see him only at the end of the show when they came out, all together, in front of the crowd. Before the show there was a message asking for not use cameras or flashes; anyway during the show some stupid guy did it...fortunately RF did not stop the show. Strangely RF is not using his black Les Paul, he has another one. Stage lights were cool, but quite "usual", nothing really special; there was a back drop on which "psychedelic" images were projected, but really not so interesting (well, that's just my opinion). During the Discipline tracks, both Trey Gunn and Tony Levin play Sticks (TL plays bass & a new upright bass for the rest of the show). TG has two new Sticks I've never saw before; they are Grand Sticks with a guitar body at the bottom end, with all the electronics on it !!!! Adrian Belew ...rules! He has a marvellous voice ( also live) and is a GREAT guitar god. During a solo he used a small electric screwdriver that put near the pick-ups making a very interesting noise !!! For the mellotron fans, there is no mellotron on the stage, Mr. Belew IS the mellotron using his yellow guitar (he has another one, red), but the sound (especially during Dinosaur) is exactly the same we're listening on the CD. Execution was simply perfect, I really enjoyed Dinosaur, Elephant Talk (try to imagine this track with 4 people doing the rhythmn part......), Red and LTiA (this one is the hardest version I ever heard) Two minor disappointments: one was the absence of any song from "Beat" or "Three of a.."; the second is that they played twice Dinosaur (Bob, I call this" business".....). Ciao Andrea [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 05:46:57 GMT From: mpeters at ibm dot net (Michael Peters) Subject: GIG REVIEW (SPOLIER!): KC in Duesseldorf: loud A word of advice for those who'll be seeing KC soon. TAKE EARPLUGS ! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | Michael Peters CIS 100041,247 | | Postfach 600645, 50686 Koeln, Germany mpeters at ibm dot net | | "Do nothing for as long as possible" (Brian Eno) | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: lebiger at informatik dot uni-frankfurt dot de Subject: GIG REVIEW (SPOLIER!): Crimson in Duesseldorf! Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 15:07:13 +0200 (METDST) Only 16 hours ago, I experienced the "new" King Crimson live at the Philippshalle in Duesseldorf - Germany. The first thing I saw, though, was the California Guitar Trio, three guys (none of them from California) that entered the stage with semi-accoustic guitars. They seated themselfs center-stage and began to play. It was a treat! They used their guitars to the maximum, sending the cords they just played thru a MIDI interface, and thereby creating a soundscape of Crimsonian proportians. The name "Disciplin" comes to mind, and a few cord reminded me of that song. The Guitar Trio proved their musical skills by playing Bachs Fuge for Organ using their 3 guitars, which sounded pretty strange, but not without a certain facination to it....... the only thing that bothered me about them was the time-factor. Their playing was great (they are members of the crafty guitarist & the Fripp Strings) but it got to be VERY annoying after a while. Still very impressive. After 30 minutes the lights dimmed again and it was time for the '95 King Crimson to take the stage. To be very honest: I was a little disapointed. They only played material from the 3rd Crimson Period, exept LtiA, which I thought was a shame. I could understand this fact, if they couldn't realize the bombastic orchestration with a double trio, but Fripp & Belew used guitar synthezisers more than once to create Orchesta String and other sound, so that argument wont stand. ...but still the evening proved to be a treat! Fripp, his usual self, was seated stage left, in an obscuring darkness. There was not one spotlight on him, even when he played a solo, which left the whole stage dark sometimes. Belew proved to be as playful as I had exspected him jumping around on stage he was the most agile member (which wasn't that hard). He didn't waste much words, either. Just "Guten Abend" (Good Evening), "Danke" (Thank you), "Alles OK ?" (everything OK) and "Vielen Dank" (Thank you very much). Oh, and he did say "Thank you" twice......and he said Good Bye. ;-) Levin surprised me by playing a semi-accoustic bass (?) which was mounted on a tripod, and which he played with a bow (!). Very interesting to watch and hear. Bruford did not wear his a Boston Bruins Logo on his shirt, but whore a yellow blazer, matching the color of his extensive percussion set. Trey Gunn - the new stick player - was in the back - center stage. He seemed to be more of a helping hand to Levin than a performer in his own rights, but I may be mistaken. The other percussionist had his drumrise stage left, just opposit Bruford and was doing his best to keep up with the 11/8 & 5/4 beats that Crimson is known for. He did a briliant job. Twice Bruford even got up, probably just to show, that the amazing percussion/drum sounds were not created by him, but by "the new guy". ;-) Things that stuck in my memory: - Indisciplin, which saw the best Bruford I ever heard (on this track). It was amazing to see Bruford tending his enormous drum-set, sometimes hitting it as hard as he could, sometimes strocking the trigger-pads, to create amazing effects. - Elephant Talk, which was introduced by a stick/stick duet by Levin/Gunn. While playing, Levin went back to Gunn, seemingly guiding him along. Still, there was no picture of teacher/student here. - Larks Tongue in Aspic III (or was it II) which they played as the 2nd encore. This was truely the essence of this evenings performance. It showed, that this reincarnation of King Crimson is really at it's best on stage, improvising the hell out of the material. It was just pure ........ !!!! Fill in fitting word here ^^^^^^^^) The thing that left the worst memory was the merchandise ! I don't think that people like Fripp&Co are in dire need of money, so how can you justify the 40DM (=$29) for a T-Shirt or 50DM (=$35) for a longsleeve ???? Not to talk about the other overpriced merchandise. The only thing that seemed (to me) worth the 20 DM (=$15) was the tour-booklet, which not only has Fripps VERY personal views in it, but is also VERY spacey.................;-) I think that these merchandise prices were highway robbery, so I am sorry to say, that I bought my KC Tour-Shirt (the only one including the dates of the venues & the names) for 20 DM from a bootlegger........that's capitalism for you, Fripp ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ GOD is REAL ---------- unless declared INTEGER -------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]