From elephant-talk at arastar dot comSun May 7 07:59:36 1995 Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 09:28:11 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #185 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 185, Wednesday, 3 May 1995 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Yikes, this is a big issue. In response to several requests, articles which feature gig set lists are marked SPOILER! and will be placed as the last items in each issue, after the TICKETS section. The next issue of ET will be a one-topic issue: an interview with Tony Levin, thanks to Mike Saunders of the Boston Globe. So here we go with the biggest ET ever. Take a deep breath... -- Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Today's Topics: DISCOG: Coast to Coast REVIEW: T. Levin's World Diary MISC: The Pontiac Talking Drum MISC: the Bears QUERY: Cross inquiry THRAK: Review MISC: Alternate orders MISC: Re: #1(2) Elephant-talk digest v95 #183 QUERY: Questions about various KC releases MISC: Re: Elephant Talk #184 THRAK: How unique! A THRAK review THRAK: Sounds on THRAK lyric sheet MISC: re: guitars/women | My .sig | cover of THRAK THRAK: Newspaper Review of THRAK MISC: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #184 THRAK: - Listen Better MISC: Musical tastes of KC fans MISC: a stupid observation.... MISC: Belew-Fetters/KC on NBC/Neurotica MISC: Pop go KC?? MISC: women and KC MISC: Lyrics/Reviews THRAK: review MISC: On the case REVIEW: T H R A K DISCOG: Scandinavian prog compilation CD (includes KC covers) THRAK: Crimson without * MISC.- Are We Worthy? LYRICS: Re: #1(2) Elephant-talk digest v95 #183 THRAK: more non-musical Thrak comments MISC: Re: Sinfield post-Crimson MISC: Live show THRAK: C'mon guys, loosen up! QUERY: Sylvian info THRAK: Just got it! REVIEW: Thrak impressions from a different type of fan THRAK review THRAK: without drums? MISC: Various Topics MISC: Message for The Boys REVIEW: A THRAKing Disappointment MISC: Picture disc box set MISC: forthcoming Belew release MISC: U.K. news MISC: sacred songs cd (et 178) MISC: bill...thanks GIG: KC in Milan - Teatro Smeraldo 2/5/94 QUERY: Live stuff TICKETS: annoying ticket request TICKETS: Trade: My REM tickets for your King Crimson tickets. TICKETS: King Crimson Tickets TICKETS: NY Ticket trade TICKETS: kc - minneapolis TICKETS: Boston? NYC? TICKETS: Desperately need TIX for Denver, CO on 6/18 ! TICKETS: please TICKETS: RAH tickets GIG SET LIST (SPOILER!): KC in Milan !!! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:52:27 -0500 From: gabriel dot a dot radvansky dot 1 at nd dot edu (G.A. Radvansky) Subject: DISCOG: Coast to Coast Hey, here's something I've been wondering about for a while. I have this b**tleg of Fripp's from the 1979 Frippertronics tour called 'Robert Fripp: Coast to Coast', and I was wondering if anyone else had this (and that the discography listing should sometime be updated). Basically its a double album (you remember... that flat, black, and circular stuff). Here's the track listing: Disc A, Side 1, Track 1: CJOM-FM Montreal August 18, 1979 (This includes some of Fripp's undercover tapings spliced together with later responses by himself), ending in God Say the Queen with Hendrix-style soloing over-top of the Frippertronics loops. Disc A, Side 2, Track 1: Chicago June 18, 1979 Track 2: Chicago 1979 (studio) (Track 2 is a Frippertronics version of Silent Night, very nice) Disc B, Side 1, Track 1: Los Angeles Television Broadcast, October 1979 Track 2: St. Louis, July, 1979 Disc B, Side 2, Track 1: Los Angeles, July 26, 1979 Track 2: New York City, June 30, 1979 I'm not sure, but I think this may be a promo version that came before 'Let the Power Fall', although I really have no way of knowing. Any further information on this would be appreciated. Oh, I also like THRAK. --G.A. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 28 Apr 95 10:28:10 EDT From: Suntower Systems <70242 dot 1520 at compuserve dot com> Subject: REVIEW: T. Levin's World Diary Lurker review... First off, let mes say that I am a bassist and a big fan of Tony's. Not so much for his technique, per se' but for his musical attitude. 'World Diary' is a series of 13 duets and trios for Tony (mostly on Stick) and a number of what I'd call 'World Music' types. The pieces are small, almost intimate, vignettes. Most were recorded in hotel rooms whilst Tony was on tour with Peter Gabriel. Most of the songs are simple one or two chord figures played by Tony over which his partner solos. His partners include A Koto player, various percussionists (including Jerry Marotta and Bill Bruford), a saxaphonist from Sweden, Shankar on Indian violin, and a couple of African's playing native instruments. The two Bill Bruford tunes are very similar to the duet they did on the Yes 'Union' album --same tone colors, etc... The overall feel of the record is quiet and peaceful--almost 'ambient' in the best sense of that word. Most of the tunes are quite relaxing and subtle -- not dull, but not pop songs either. In fact, the vibe almost reminds me of 'Jade Warrior' (boy, that dates, me...) There are no real 'chopfests' but then, Tony's not that kind of player. If you are looking for something like what KC or David Sylvian do, well, you'll probably be a bit disappointed: Tony is a chameleon. Although he can blast away with the best of them, this is definitely -not- a pounding record. For those interested in bass/stick playing, there are a -lot- of -very- interesting tones on the record. By that I mean, the sheer 'sounds' of his stick and basses is interesting to listen to, apart from the actual notes he plays. In fact, this has always been one of Tony's claims to fame: his innovative tone colors. Finally, I would like to comment on the jacket/presentation. It is great. It is quite tasteful, informative, and really gives you some insights into what the guy was trying to get across on the record. A lot of CD packages these days just don't do justice to the music inside (including VROOM, by the way...) Oh for the days of vinyl with BIG pieces of important art and info on the jackets! Sorry for the length, but hey I never post so my credit should be good! jc [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:03:07 -0400 From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com Subject: MISC: The Pontiac Talking Drum I saw an TV advertisement for a new car sale last night. Music: The Talking Drum as re-recorded by some studio band. I like the Lark's Tounges in Aspic version myself. By the way, that extra track at the begining of Varoom is there to help listeners adjust the volume to the correct level. Just yank that fader up to where you can hear the mystery track and you're ready to Varooom! :) I got my copy of Thrak last week. See you all at Town Hall on 6/3, David Beardsley dmb5561719 at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:56:55 -0500 (EST) From: STEINKA at UCBEH dot SAN dot UC dot EDU Subject: MISC: the Bears I'm new at the 'net and at ET, so bear with me. I'm also a GIRL, and must say I loved Paul Mantz' comment about 'guitars being phallice sybols'! How True! Anyways, I just happened to stumble on ET as I was exploring the Internet and was thrilled to see references to the Bears AND Psychodots (Rob Fetters, Bob Neiswonger and Chris Arduser; formerly of the Bears). I'm from Cincinnati, OH and have been following the Psychodots since 1982, except when on tour with Adrian, and if you like the Bears, I'm sure you will like the 'Dots'. Talk about guitar playing, I think Rob Fetters is one of the best. Its hard to believe they can't seem to make it out of Cincinati, although selfishly enough, its good for me as I can see them play whenever I want! You can get the 'Dots' and maybe the Bears (if they are willing to give them up) at this number: Umbrella Artists Management Inc. Cincinnati, Oh 513-871-1500 So have a try at them and let me know what you think... Amy Steinkamp Steinka at ucbeh dot san dot uc dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: steedb at er4 dot eng dot ohio-state dot edu (Brian David Steed) Subject: QUERY: Cross inquiry Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 10:41:08 EDT Can anyone tell me about the David Cross solo album? I can't find it anywhere, and I've always wondered what became of him after KC. Why they booted him out I'll never know.... Brian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:10:42 -0600 From: pmartz at ES dot COM (Paul Martz) Subject: THRAK: Review From: Diaphanus at aol dot com > Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:22:14 -0400 > > I decided to shell out the $30 for an English import of THRAK (I just > couldn't wait). You couldn't wait just two more days?!? I picked up the domestic (US) copy on 4/25 for just $11.99... My comments on Thrak: When Vrooom came out, lots of people complained that they weren't compltely blown away. I was just the opposite: Vrooom blew me away completely, but Thrak hasn't quite done that. I love some parts, others strike me as overdone or not done well enough. I feel that the band put alot of energy into Vrooom and it shows, and perhaps the energy for Thrak was already spent, or somehow covered up by the production. Don't know. I'll say this much: The mellotron break and coda for Dinosaur is absolute genious. Anyhow, I'll continue to listen to it. I have a feeling it will grow on me. And it was certainly worth the $11.99 I paid for it! -- -paul pmartz at es dot com Evans & Sutherland "Be bright! Feel right! Take Eno!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:43:41 -0700 (PDT) From: David McMillan Subject: MISC: Alternate orders Greetings ET, I am usually uncomfortable changing the order of tunes on a CD because I feel that the order is an important part of the entire composition. I like to think that the artist(s) had some particular interest in that order. It used to really bug me (in the old days) when record companies would re-order the tunes of a vinyl record on a cassette, presumably to minimize the amount of tape required. I have seen one CD only in which the band offers a "suggested listening order" which differs from the regular one. This is "Sleeping Bootie" by Montreal's Bootsauce. I thought their alternative order was way better! David [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 18:39:44 -0400 From: BILLFORTH at aol dot com Subject: MISC: Re: #1(2) Elephant-talk digest v95 #183 Is the Ian McDonald who played with Foreigner the same Old McDonald who had a farm in Dorset? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 18:52:44 -0400 (EDT) From: FISHBOY Subject: QUERY: Questions about various KC releases Hello, This is my first post to ET; I've been reading it for a few months now. I'm dying to comment on Thrak and my anticipation of seeing Crimson in a month, but I'll hold myself back and get to my questions. :) Does anyone have a list of all the differences people have found (in the music, not the packaging and such) between the Definitive Edition KC CDs and the original LPs? So far I only know of: - the orchestra tuning up left off of the _Islands_ CD (but subsequently restored on FBF) - a comment made by someone (Bruford? I never actually heard this) at the end of LTiA II on the LP but not the remastered CD - a little Fripp guitar part at the beginning of "Matte Kudesai" on the _Discipline_ LP but not the remastered CD This third one puzzles me - were all the albums remixed, or just remastered? If they were all remixed there should be little differences all over the place. Most bands just remaster, so this seems a little odd. My next question is about the officially released live material: what (if any) overlap is there between the live recordings found on _S&BB_, _Red_, _USA_, _Frame by Frame_, and _The Great Deceiver_? Actually, now that I think of it I could probably just reword this - what dates was USA recorded on? The LP only says 6/74. I know the boxed sets have all the songs dated, and I'm pretty sure the dates of the shows where the live stuff from S&BB and Red was recorded is mentioned in the band history-liner notes from FBF. Looks like I have some web-browsing to do... :) (See, I don't own the boxed sets (yet).) So pretty much this question becomes "Are the specific dates when USA was recorded known, and if so, are these performances all available on the 2 boxed sets?" Thanks for your time, and sorry for so many questions. Hopefully I'll be able to supply information at some point (like a setlist after I see their first U.S. show in over a decade! Wooo! :) People fish People beef, Andy Acunzo aacunzo at ccmail dot sunysb dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Apr 95 05:26:03 From: John Napier Organization: None Subject: MISC: Re: Elephant Talk #184 Many congrats. My intense love of KC has been recently revivied by reading this newsletter. I was first enraptured by the original band and owned the album at the time. Lake went to ELP and Fripp went ballistic. My next intimate contact was to have the privilege of being an excited spectator at the original DISCIPLINE Tour gig in Liverpool. The sound balance was the best I have ever heard. It easily outclassed anything produced by Pink Floyd or any of the other biggies who try for quality sound at gigs. The attack of the electronic instriuments was very impressive. My first intro to the Roland G. synth and chap stick. As an ex. drummer myself it was Bruford's eletronic kit which really blew my mind. By setting up a snare sound to a foot switch beside his Hi-hat footpedal, he could do more with his feet alone than most drummers manage with all their limbs. His sticks were free to make music. The discipline album was a bit of a letdown as it just did not reproduce the sound quality of the gig, despite being one of the best albums released that year. Sort of lost touch after Three of a Perfect Pair. +--------------------------------------------------------------+ |John Napier Email to john at hetzer dot demon dot co dot uk | |Tel 01704 541153 * The sum of the intelligence on the pla-NET| |is a constant. The population is growing.* (Thankx to Mr Cole)| +--------------------------------------------------------------+ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 23:28:07 -0400 From: ranger at haven dot ios dot com Subject: THRAK: How unique! A THRAK review A non-musician's thoughts on THRAK. Thrak is perhaps the most energetic, democratic, schizophrenic, organic, and inventive collection of music I've listened to in several years. It has vanquished my disappoinment with VROOOM. It should become the most successful King Crimson album ever released. When I popped on Thrak for the first time and listened to VROOOM begin, I legitimately tingled, laughed, and said out loud to no one but myself, "They hit it!" The murky wall of sound of the EP/VROOOM has been reengineered with much more clarity and articulation, but with no loss of power or drive. The title cut Thrak grew up into a full fledged song (though with a missing part from the EP version, too brief and a little less dark for me). Sex has been finished, and the rising waterlogged guitar part in the midst of its chaos provides an emotional anchor that was missing (hidden?) in the EP version. I could pass on One Time, but Walking is a hauntingly beautiful, and Dinosaur has enough ideas to be three seperate songs for most other bands. The musicality, especially in the dual drumming and bass parts, really matured. In other posts here, I've read some laments that Thrak lacks guitar-hero signatures. That's true. IMHO, that's not the issue though (remember, Fripp once gave Bruford a song credit for NOT playing anything). This KC seems to breathe in unison. Throughout Thrak, I'm struck that despite how full and layered the parts are, one does not listen to individuals play, nor listen for "memorable" parts. You are listening to a truly collective work (the sum is greater than the parts?). This may be one of the more obvious effects of a six piece unit. To acheive a given level of noise, perhaps four musicians need to play more complex parts than do six, each who can take a smaller role to bring about the desired effect. I imagine that Fripp, for his relative unhappiness with the way KC-1980 evolved, is quite pleased with this first effort. I hope they stick around to do more. With playing from various KC eras, can you imagine the richness of the concerts? I can't wait. GB [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 29 Apr 95 03:26:50 EDT From: Rob & Traci Moore <74072 dot 224 at compuserve dot com> Subject: THRAK: Sounds on THRAK lyric sheet In issue #184, Jeremy writes: >>VROOOM snap, bang, pop, wallop, crash THRAk, backwards under the lyrics, seems to reflect RF's definitions of the words.<< In case anyone hasn't commented yet, the sounds listed under the lyrics correspond to the sounds made by the objects pictured on the other side of the lyric. (i.e. VROOM=car, snap=bone, bang=gun, etc.) Which begs the question, what is the object pictured that makes the sound THRAK? Peace, Rob [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:32:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Damon C Capehart Subject: MISC: re: guitars/women | My .sig | cover of THRAK Racheline writes: > The whole phallic thing about guitar always always struck me as so obvious > that it was hardly worth considering. Overlooking that, why aren't women > drawn into guitar based on the music? I mean there's such a huge range of > sounds you can get out of a guitar you'd think more women would get into it > somewhere along the line.... oh yeah, folk.... that's the only place I ever > see a lot of girls with guitars. That's strange... I know at least one guitar instructor who tells his students to "hold your guitar like a woman". So I think the guitar is more of a female instrument -- that is, the instrument itself is more like a woman... less a phallic symbol. Of course, *electric* guitars are another thang. :) The Lord Arioch writes: > (SALESMEN!!!--- I love it!) My high school sophomore and senior English/Literature teacher used to refer to Rush as "Gerbils On Acid"... and then scream "SALESMEN!!!" :) (This guy was *at* Woodstock '69, BTW.) :P One other thang... what IS that on the cover of THRAK? The most I can make out is that it's metallic and it has a hole in it... I can't stop wondering. Damon Capehart | "SALESMEN!!!" -- Rush dcapehar at utdallas dot edu | "LIBERALS!!!" -- the *other* Rush [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:23:23 -0400 (EDT) From: DAVIREAD at delphi dot com Subject: THRAK: Newspaper Review of THRAK (from The Boston Globe, Friday, April 28, 1995:) THE KING CRIMSON TIDE ROLLS BACK IN The English Art Rockers Return After 10 Years With A Big, Bold 'Thrak' By Michael Saunders, GLOBE STAFF Record stores overflow with the notorious excesses of the music industry, the poster boys and girls with CD deals proving it often takes the marginally talented to fully appease the marginally tasteful. Half-hidden behind all the eyeshadow and nouveau-punk poseurs are bands such as King Crimson, whose reluctance to dance with the corporate wolves has endeared it to a select pack of worldwide fans. King Crimson has dissolved and congealed over the past 26 years like a recurrent sea fog, members shipping out to work on other projects but eventually rolling together for another album. Like 17-year cicadas with fast metabolisms, they have re-emerged after a 10-year hiatus for a new album, "Thrak." It's unadulterated King Crimson, the sound of a beloved uncle: loud, unpredictable and prone to getting into complicated situations. It can be shockingly cranky, yet turn tender in a heartbeat. "Thrak" is a 10-pound bass of a CD, a definite keeper. It's a beefier version of "Vroom," a live CD released in mid-1994. Much electronic debate has been waged over the merits of "Thrak" but what would a King Crimson release be without the inevitable polarization? Judge freely, or better yet, see the band at the Orpheum Theatre on June 2. King Crimson has deftly eluded commercial success several times in its quarter-century of existence. Even the mention of the insidious term "crossover hit" seems to trigger some hidden self-destruct mechanism buried within the band's framework. Members wouldn't have it any other way, according to bassist Tony Levin, whose playing style is every bit as distinctive as his gleaming head. "We're just better off lurking somewhere on the edge of the music business, getting by and certainly making an OK living at it and being completely true to ourselves," said Levin, who grew up in Boston and Brookline. They can afford this level of artistic integrity because all of the members are professional musicians in the fullest sense. They have dedicated their lives to making music. Levin, for example, is a longtime collaborator on Peter Gabriel's work, laying a vital bottom end for Gabriel's bass-heavy global- village sound. King Crimson founder Robert Fripp is a world-class guitar master influenced in equal measures by the Beatles and Bartok. When he isn't releasing solo albums, Adrian Belew is a have-guitar- will-travel session player who has worked with Talking Heads, Nine Inch Nails and Tori Amos. Drummer Bill Bruford is the rhythmic engine behind Yes and a solid studio player as well. Then there are the new kids, Trey Gunn and Pat Mastoletto, who each add a distinctive dimension. Gunn plays the Chapman Stick, a 10-stringed instrument that blends bass and guitar. He and Levin trade Stick licks throughout the live show. Mastelotto, former drummer for the mid-'80s popsters Mister Mister, joins Bruford to anchor the rhythm. "Crimson is quite an adventure, really," Levin said, especially with this current lineup. "We never know what's going to happen. Nobody can sit down and plan and know that it's actually going to come down that way. Crimson is kind of an organism with a life of its own. We go there and we do our best, and we really put a lot into it - and I would say, the effort takes a lot out of each of us. It's an intense experience. But the result is always quite a surprise." Over the years, King Crimson has surprised fans with its incarnations. Albums such as the 1969 debut "Court of the Crimson King," the 1970's "Lizard" and the 1974 album "Red" incorporated keyboards, woodwinds and brass and put Fripp and friends at the forefront of the nascent "progressive" rock movement. Later albums - "Discipline" (1981), "Beat" (1982) and "Three of a Perfect Pair" (1984) - explored the primal, beat-crazy side of rock. The current King Crimson is this six-member "double trio," the new players solidifying the four-member core like rebar in concrete. "There was a lot of adjusting for the two drummers to have a dialogue with each other, and for two stick players. That mostly was done after the 'Vroom' recording, when we were playing live in Argentina," Levin said. For a band so focused on its live performance, the mechnics of band-member interaction became crucial. They needed to discover ways of working that out, hence the series of dates in Argentina where they could escape gracefully if the new material died. (It didn't.) "There are no rules for having two drummers. The kind of more standard approach of having the two pound out a similar part was unthinkable for Crimson," Levin said. "We have to at least try to break new ground with everything we do, so those guys really sweat out some tough interplay. It works well for me - as a bass player I'm very sensitive to what's going on in the drums. That's the big success of this album, that the two drummers worked out a very Crimson way for two drummers to play at the same time." With that in mind, there's a similar symbiosis on the low end, with Levin and Gunn dueling bass and Stick parts - or IS there? "Well, we TRIED to work out a dialog," Levin said, laughing. "We didn't do quite as well - we didn't do badly - but I wouldn't say the big victory of the album was the way we worked out. Somehow, without consciously planning it, I gravitated down toward playing low bass parts and Trey moved toward playing high Stick parts. So really there is no double-Stick playing on the album. There will be on the tour, quite a bit, in fact, but only on the old material." The mention of vintage material is sure to set Crimheads panting, but Levin says he is unsure what those specific songs are, or how many will come from the '80s or the '70s. "We had a lot of old stuff we used to do in shows, so we have a lot to draw upon. I'm not sure whether we'll add even some older things. I don't know. I'm also no expert at the old songs - I really wasn't a Crimson listener until I was in the band. Ironic, isn't it?" (from The Boston Globe, Friday, April 28, 1995) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:56:55 -0500 From: artc at tiac dot net (Art Cohen) Subject: MISC: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #184 Brett wrote: : Don't be concerned about poor reviews, KC have ALWAYS had poor reviews. Anybody remember (or have) the King Crimson reviews in Robert Christgau's record guide? They were pretty atrocious, as I recall. --Art -- finger artc at artc dot tiac dot net for PGP public key if I'm logged on. ** Boston Ska home page ** http://matrix.intertain.com/profane [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:34:43 -0700 From: SezZ at eworld dot com Subject: THRAK: - Listen Better After reading through all of the THRACK reviews and initially wanting to write an extended dialog on how great a recording this is I decided against it. Then I changed my mind. But I will not offer another review of THRAK. I'd just like to point out a couple of things; 1. Really good art often starts disagreements of wildy different viewpoints. Like THRAK 2. Neil Forker (Teakbois at aol dot com) has given the best assesment of THRAK to date. It should be the "official" ET review. Tell your friends. 3. "Dinosaur", "People", and "Walking on Air" are about as "Pop" as "Cat Food", "Easy Money", and "Cadence and Cascade". There is a ton of precedence for this type of tune in KC history. Get the big picture before you tear up the little one. 4. I'm positively amazed that someone would complain that a Crimso disk sounds better loud. Is it possible for Crimso to be too loud? I think not. 5. Thrak is the best Crimso album since Red. And it shows the importance of the CD "collection of songs" as a vehicle rather than just a bunch of tunes. Like vinyl, remember? And it does so with a "nod and a wink" hence the Poseidon, Red, and mellotron musical references. God, I love this stuff. 6. This live show is going to leave you gasping for air. I saw the LTIA band in '73. Believe me. Pay the money - get good seats. Don't be a chump. Well, I could probably ramble on for a long time, but I've heard the pleas for economy. If you find a better CD than THRAK please let me know. Until then, I'm a happy camper. - Sez [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Apr 95 16:18 EDT From: dalban at csc dot com (Extasia) Subject: MISC: Musical tastes of KC fans The Great Quail (thequail at cthulhu dot microserve dot com) wrote: > Now *this* > is going to sound strange, so feel free to let loose your slings > and arrows: I hear the occasional touch of King Crimson in - gasp! > - Soundgarden. Now, don't yell. Only on one or two songs, like > "Holy Water" from Badmotorfinger. I know, next I'll be telling me > Fripp played guitar for the Roches. . . . Or that Curt Cobain loved > "Red". . . . No arrows fired from this Soundgarden fan! Their album "Superunknown" is one of my favorite recently released albums. (Check out the song "Like Suicide".) I don't necessarily think of Crimson when I listen to them, but for what it's worth I *am* a big Crimson fan and I also like Soundgarden. I enjoy seeing posts in which ET'ers mention other artists they like. It's a chance for all of us to find new (to us) music to dig (or bury). ;-) Later, Extasia --- "Not a Model Man not a savior or a saint imperfect in a word make no mistake but I, I'll give you everything I have take me as I am..." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 15:02:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matthew F. McCabe" Subject: MISC: a stupid observation.... Anybody else notice that unauthorized is spelled incorrectly on the Thrak CD? Oops!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Able Cain on the Web!! http://www.netads.com/netads/arts/music/marathon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt McCabe Able Cain Marathon Records finley at ecst dot csuchico dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 19:50:24 -0500 (EST) From: JONATHAN BRIARS FAVORITE COLOR-GREEN Subject: MISC: Belew-Fetters/KC on NBC/Neurotica I simply have 3 comments: 1. After reviewing several back issues, it appears as though a number of readers claim that Rob Fetters has mastered Belew's style of playing and is well qualified to trade licks with Adrian. As a Bears/psychodot fan, I must comment on how uneducated these assumptions really are. The truth is - each guitarist has learned from each other. Fetters is an awesome musician and shouldn't be left in the shadow of Belew. Although I do see some Belew influence in his work, much of Fetter's style is his own and is now becoming apparent in Belew's work. PLEASE, PLEASE recognize Rob Fetters as what he is, Rob Fetters and not Adrian Belew the II. 2. Did anyone else notice the opening riffs of "SEX, SLEEP, EAT, DRINK, DREAM" during the Cavs/Knicks pregame hype on NBC? 3. Every time I hear the first few bars of "VROOOM," I start to sing "Neurotica." FYI - the new pyschodot disk (tenatively called "Awkwardsville") will be out in late May (according to Shawn Marsh, the 'dots soundman). Jonathan Briars IN%"Briars at Butler dot EDU" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Maclennan Subject: MISC: Pop go KC?? Date: 01 May 1995 09:45:02 +1300 In ET184, one correspondent opined that "some of the pop songs [on THRAK] could be poppier". While not wishing to flame a fellow ETer, I have to strongly disagree. Belew's Beatles-obsessed pop sensibility is the weak link in the current KC, notwithstanding his considerable talents as a musician. Reader Erick Clark put it nicely: "King Crimson is a lot of things, but there [sic] not the Beatles, and that's just as well." There have been Beatles influences in earlier KC songs like "Cat Food" and "Ladies of the Road", but generally such influences were more subtle. "Walking On Air" and "One Time" ARE lovely songs, but the former in particular veers dangerously close to pure schmaltz. If we're talking "quiet" songs, more things like "Inner Garden" would be what I'd like to see. And I'd echo the criticisms of "People". For me, its the track on the album I like least. Conventional US-style AOR to my ears, but there is some hot playing on it. I love THRAK as an album, but it's not without its flaws. But maybe that's as it should be..... David Maclennan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 15:47:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: MISC: women and KC I don't think King Crimson has to be an exclusively male thing. I've been listening to THRAK with my friend Emily, who had no prior familiarity with Crimson. She loves the album. JP [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 16:28:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Scott T. Lillis" Subject: MISC: Lyrics/Reviews Hi All, I don't want to litter the list with more reviews. As much as I like the reappearance of KC, it's unfortunate(yet understandable) the way things here have swelled to immense proportions. I remember 2 years ago on Discipline(bach then :), when new KC was still a distant memory, things were comparatively laid back here. This traffic must be overwhelming to administrate, nice mork Toby. I like Thrak...not amazing, but blows most current work away. The song Thrak is much improved and the shortening is welcome. In terms of lyrics I like Inner Garden I-II the best. This is a general point I wanted to come to(not another THhrak rev). Some people point to lyrics as a down side of KC. I always loved KC lyrics(heavily complimented by the music of course), esp. Palmer-James. I really liked the separate lyricist concept as well. They'd let someone concentrate on that aaspect and let the musicians do the music. This is appropriate to KC IMO. It may just be Adrians lyrics, but the percentage of lyircs I REALLY LOVE are lower with Adrian. I was really bothered by this on the EP. To me Inner Garden represents the sadness of KC that seems to be lurking under the surface so often. With Adrian, there is a much more, well...silly aspect to the lyrics that looses the intensity, though it's still brought out in the music. The songs like Starless, Exiles, and Night Watch had an emotions impact that made the guitar solos in those songs all the sadder and more beautiful. None-the-less I'd still say the Crimson King is on the prowl today and still a menacing creative force today, this is all I've got for liveness, being 21...bootleg memories of 73 sure make me wish I was this age the year I was born! I don't want to go on to long about that. Some one was mentioning poor reviews and it reminded of some early 73 reviews that Fripp read out-loud on a live recording then. The first was utter negativity saying roughly: "LTiA is a monument in self-indulgence...Fripp's prowess with the Mellotron has won him and overblown reputation and provosal(sp?) ego." Then he goes on to read a drooling review that drivels on: "Bruford displays a child like joy in his drumming...Wetton's [strong base] in familiar melodic figures provides and anchor for Fripp's startrek guitar...". I got such a laugh outta that, I had to bring it up. Sorry for the long wind, I try to keep them less often though. Later all, Scott Lillis [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 01 May 95 08:22:37 EDT From: "Neil J. Cavanagh" <76111 dot 3636 at compuserve dot com> Subject: THRAK: review Thrak is incredible.(More opinions follow.) I, regrettably, can't imagine what else a KC fan could be asking for in an album, that doesn't present itself on Thrak. Thrak is not 'KC Lite.' One second of Thrak crushes all three 80's albums in one unmerciful blow. And i'd rather have Beatles-KC then Talking Heads-KC. And Lennon-Belew rather than Byrne-Belew. I do not agree that ET posters should keep their posts, as one reader put it,'short and sweet.' The editor, presumably, may exercise editing control over his publication. If the reader is in a hurry, he is at liberty to 'skim.' [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:06:54 -0600 From: keeks at maroon dot tc dot umn dot edu (Tom Keekley) Subject: MISC: On the case >Finally picked it up.... finally got it out of the damn case....did anyone >else have this problem? I have never spent so long trying to get a CD to >come out of the box. Anyway.... once I finally got it into the stereo I HA HA HA HA!! I did too!!! the left side of the cover was jammed into the edge! I had to stick my hand inside, under the booklet and push back up to get it to pop open! BUT . . the struggle was worth it. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 01 May 95 09:48:57 CST From: "DANIEL A. KIRKDORFFER" Subject: REVIEW: T H R A K In ET #184 JDLISS at amherst dot edu writes: > Why pause between "Vrooom Vrooom" and its coda? I actually think the pause is most appropriate and effective, as are the "Radio" and "Inner Garden" links. This record is so diverse that without such pauses and links the whole flow of the record would be affected. That 10 seconds of space sets up the coda by allowing the *lack* of music to counterpoint the "evil monster dinosaur emerging from the depths..." (as Justin Weinberg puts it). Intended, effective and appreciated. Also, eclark at mail dot utexas dot edu writes that, > King Crimson are a lot of things, but [they're] not the Beatles, and > that's just well. The first non-VROOOM track I heard from THRAK was "People" on WXRT radio in Chicago, and I thought to myself, "Oh no", concerned that this was going to be representative of the rest of the tracks. After repeated listens I don't mind it as much, but I do find Belew's vocals rather weak here, and the lyrics uninspired. But what erks me is the "oh Oh oh" bit. It makes me think of that Rockwell one hit wonder song in the mid eighties on which Michael Jackson sang "I always feel like somebody's watching me...and I have no privacy, oh Oh oh"! Too close for comfort! But getting back to that Beatles thing, I have two thoughts: 1) King Crimson music is the sum of its parts, and Belew influences should be just as valid as others, and 2) I personally prefer the darker, heavier personality of the music. It is obvious, reading people's reviews, that this record appeals to us all in different ways, and perhaps that is in the end the best indication of a fine piece of work. Daniel Kirkdorffer e#kirkd at ccmail dot ceco dot com - ...Always look on the bright side of life... (MP - Life of Brian) - [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 1 May 95 17:01 BST From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: DISCOG: Scandinavian prog compilation CD (includes KC covers) Just got "This Is An Orange", a "compilation of Scandinavian Progressive Rock" Tracks: "90's selection": Ravana: Wounded (7:21) Crome [sic] Yellow: Deathwish/Autumn (7:32) Fruitcake: How To Make It? (3:35) Ab Intra: Fatherland (8:48) Crack Of Ice: Dusty Highway (3:56) Winterland: Shadow Of My Mind (5:26) Manticore: The Maiden (11:26) "Classic selection": Villblomst: Blackest Cat In Town (4:57) Folque: Fanfare (2:50) Orchid Garden: Moonchild (2:58) Anekdoten: Circus (7:20) The first two "classic" tracks are originals from 1978 and 1980 respectively, while the last two are (very good) covers of King Crimson songs. I haven't listened to all of this CD yet, so a review is not possible. But the depressing news is this: only 250 copies of the CD were made (mine is No. 145), and 150 went to the bands themselves. Mellotronen in Stockholm got 5, and GFT in England got 25, but both have sold their copies (and at high prices; GFT was charging $31.50!). So you will have to be very lucky indeed to track down a copy of this CD... Cat No: BY-07 Briskeby Records, President Harbitz gate 1, 0259 Oslo, Norway. FYI, -- Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/ronc/index.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 10:37:08 -0700 (PDT) From: David Mechem Subject: THRAK: Crimson without * nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) said >> >>Final comment: can anyone imagine this project without Bruford? No, but I like to try to imagine it without Belew. Oh, well. At least the instrumentals are good. The Thrak version of One Time seems lifeless compared to the VROOOM -- I liked the original percussive stick part (Trey playing it, correct?) which was replaced. One Time was the only tune with vocals that I liked. Despite my gloom & doom, it's still a great album. dave ------------------------------------------------------------------ David Mechem dmechem at atmos dot washington dot edu ------------------------------------------------------------------ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 1 May 1995 16:21:29 -0500 From: "Jonathan Block" Subject: MISC.- Are We Worthy? Well the respectability quotient of ET just went up a notch or two with the Emmett Chapman post. As a former Stick player (symptoms of carpel tunnel syndrome caused a cessation in my commitment), I advise anyone who digs the Stick to seek out Emmett's recordings - they are all demonstrations of a certified master. Perhaps Emmett could provide us with a list of his available works and videos and where to get them. Emmett, are you listening? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 19:09:37 -0400 From: BWorkman at aol dot com Subject: LYRICS: Re: #1(2) Elephant-talk digest v95 #183 In Response to Anders Berggren who said: >When reading the lyrics to, say dinosaur, and comparing that to In the court of >the crimson king, there is no need to say more. Since Peter Sinfield left >KC the lyrics have become worse. I'm not going to flame, but I am suprised. I always thought the worst thing about early Crimson (and ELP) was Sinfield's lyrics. I always considered them an embarassing blemish on some really fine instrumental music. I say good riddance; Palmer James and Belew are miles ahead. Brian Workman [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 95 12:43 BST From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: THRAK: more non-musical Thrak comments Date: Mon, 1 May 95 11:22 BST From: ronc (Ron Chrisley) I have just discovered that there is a third difference between the gold and non-gold editions of Thrak (the first two are catalogue number and gold vs non-gold cd, of course). The lyric insert for the gold edition is printed on cheap, non-glossy paper, while the non-gold edition is on glossy, thick card. I have not seen anyone point out the following; forgive me if it is old news: The words vrooom, snap, pop, crash, etc that are backwards on each panel of the lyrics sheet correspond to the phot on the other side of the respective panel. So on the back of the vroom panel is a car, on the back of the snap panel is a broken bone, etc. So the function of the thin paper, together with the backwards words, might have been this: if you hold each photo up to the light, you will see the photo and the appropriate word the right war around, simultaneously. But it doesn't work too well. Perhaps I should get a life. I will take this opportunity to mention what first struck me about the lyric layout: Polyrhythms. When seeing how the words were spaced on the page, I was instantly reminded of an excellent post about the tune Thrak several months ago, in the post-VROOOM brouhaha: ===== Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 16:27:53 +0000 From: GREGORY Subject: Thrak I have transcripted thrak: R. Fripp : Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak A. Belew :Oooooothrack thrack thrak thrak thrak thrak thrack T. Gunn : thraketty-thrakaetty thracketty-thrak etty- T. Levin : THRAK thrak THRAK THRAK THRAK THRAK etty P. Mastalleto : THRAKTHRAKTHRAKTHRAKTHRAKTHRAKTHRAK ETTYTHRAK B. Bruford : etty-etty etty thrak! ettyetty etty thrak R Fripp Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak Thrak thrak thrak thrak thrak thrak thrak thrak thrak thrak thrak etty thrak thrak thrak etty-etty thraketty thraketty etty ettythrak THRAK THRAK THRAK THRAK THRAK THRAK THRAK THRAK-THRAK ETTY-THRAK THRAK THRAK ETTY etty-etty thraSH! SMASH! SMASH! THRASH! THRAK THRAK THRAK... ===== That is, the lyric layout is playing with the same polyrhythm idea that Thrak is. Each line is like a different player, but some "players" have 7 beats to the bar, some 5, some 3, etc. Whatever. -- Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/ronc/index.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 12:47:21 +0000 From: br at inf dot rl dot ac dot uk Subject: MISC: Re: Sinfield post-Crimson This might not be the same Pete Sinfield, but... seen on Teletext last night (Channel 4, p.628 - will have changed by today): "You might not know that... Currently-hip Canadian Celine Dion won the Eurovision Song Contest in 1988... for Switzerland. But then, Think Twice [her winning song, presumably] was written by Andy Hill and Pete Sinfield, who also wrote many of Bucks Fizz's hits." Shurely shome mishtake?! If not, quite a long way from Crimso! Brian ---- Dr. Brian Ritchie, Systems Engineering Division, Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Chilton, DIDCOT, Oxon, UK WWW URL: http://www.cis.rl.ac.uk/people/br/contact.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 10:17:32 -0600 From: keeks at maroon dot tc dot umn dot edu (Tom Keekley) Subject: MISC: Live show I'm looking forward to KC here in the Twin Cities and was wondering what to expect as far as the stage goes. Could someone who has seen them tell me or the list what kind of staging they do. Is it elaborate or stark? Good lighting? thanks [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 12:47:09 EST From: "Scott J. Klimek" <"island::cu14sjk"@meteor.syscon.com> Subject: THRAK: C'mon guys, loosen up! Hey, am I the only one out here who is disappointed by THRAK's lack of improv pieces? With all the pre-release reviews comparing this new incarnation to the Fripp/Wetton/Bruford one, I figured I hear some of the structured-in-situ free play that attracted me to KC fifteen years ago and has kept me there ever since. The Mincer, Providence, Asbury Park, We'll Let You Know, Requiem... where have all the Sharks Lungs gone? I know I'm probably in the minority here -- When I Say Stop, Continue was my favorite track on Vrooom =:-o -- but I sure miss the old "moment presenting itself" quality of KC improv. I hope the moment presents itself a month from today in Boston. And, yes, the CD was a bitch to open (two cuts and one bruise, but worth the pain). Scott Klimek this night wounds time... sklimek at syscon dot com ... but time wounds all heels [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 09:58:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: QUERY: Sylvian info Could anyone direct me to some basic info on David Sylvian? I don't want to go to the trouble of subscribing to the Sylvian list; I'm just interested in a little bio and maybe a simplified discography. Those with anything to offer can e-mail me directly. Thanks, JP mohanjp at ac dot grin dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 13:15:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike King Subject: THRAK: Just got it! I've been lurking for awhile and I thought I would come out and give my two cents on THRAK since it has seriously effected me. I think the album is excellent! I love the renditions of the VROOM tracks especially. But, all the other songs are excellent too. I feel the Double Trio meshes finely on this album and is a very valid step in KC's musical growth. I also agree with the opinions that it is very similar to the 70's KC, although the only album from that time period that I have heard is "Starless and Bible Black" (which no one seems to talk about in this digest). Since I have found a renewed interest in this period of the band's music, I was wondering if anybody out there could give me some input on their albums from this time period. Such as which ones are better than others and how they differ. Mike King (king at puffin dot marymount dot edu) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 15:16:56 -0400 From: Rob Martino Subject: REVIEW: Thrak impressions from a different type of fan Hello, Well here are my impressions of Thrak from a more unusual type of King Crimson fan. It wasn't more than a year or two ago that I was posting stuff on the internet about how overrated this King Crimson group was (I had just gotten into prog a year or so earlier), the only time I ever posted such flame potential opinions. I just couldn't see the appeal of the music, whether it was the rough sounding distortion of Larks Tongues or the repetative, thinner sounding Displine. But because of the high opinions of the group I kept giving them a chance and kept listening, to try and find what everyone else saw. I think I was just coming around to appreciate Fripp's musical vision and music when news of the new Crimson lineup was coming up. When I bought Vrooom, for the first time ever, I liked King Crimson upon first listen. It was polished and modern sounding, agressive like the 70s stuff,rhythmic like the 80s stuff....and I like Thrak even more. I don't know what it is, but I feel like my appreciation of KC and the group's musical vision kind of converged dramatically at this point in my life. Where the earlier KC stuff has nice moments but lacked a certain something for me, this new lineup really clicks for me. I just get goosebumps during B'Boom during the drum duet, nothing but the percussion, when the storm clouds suddenly start to come in over the horizon... the swooping synth texture announcing the arrival of...thrak. Rob [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 15:04:52 -0400 From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) Subject: THRAK review THRAK rules!! I have been listening to it 4-5 times/day for the last week and a half. It just keeps sounding better and better! I esp. like Dinosaur and People. I would also like to comment on a recent thread regarding lyrics. I like the Palmer-James era the best but I also enjoy Ab's lyrics. However I cannot say the same for Sinfield's work. They are mediocre at best IMHO. THe only song from TCotCK and ItWoP that i think has strong lyrics is epitaph. I was also wondering about primus the other day.... If they are so influenced by KC, why didn't they include a KC cover song (or a Rush cover) on Miscellaneous debris? well it's goodbye. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 23:01:38 +0300 From: j at vrooom dot pp dot fi (Jukka Kukkonen) Subject: THRAK: without drums? John R. Nash wrote: >Final comment: can anyone imagine this project without Bruford? Yes - and without Mr Mr Mastelotto too. Actually 13 mins of "THRAK" is totally drum-free (22 per cent of the totaltime). The best drumless parts IMHO: - Bartok-like? mellotron intros for 'VROOOM' and 'VROOOM VROOOM' - both interludes in 'VROOOM' with that Levinian bass - 'VROOOM VROOOM' middle part (RF said in ET173 he composed it for 'Red') - the 18'' silence before the last Coda: "The master shapes silence" (GC) - 'Radio' (RF has said: "the creative musician is the radio receiver...") - The short jazzy piano with someone yelling "yeah" - it must be a sample from an earlier record, maybe Charlie Parker, something from the early fifties? BTW, 'Walking On Air' is my favourite track with drums. "close your eyes and look at me" - who said Belew can't sing or write lyrics --- and the fascinating guitar solos with soundscapes... 'B'Boom' begins with Ligeti-like soundscapes (like someone already posted in ET184). The calling of double drums invite us to the harmonic labyrinth of 'THRAK' with the scary sound of "117 guitars"...I'm not sure I dig it yet, but I won't bury it either. Fripp regards "THRAK" as his best work since 1979. I also used to like "Red" and "Exposure" best, but "THRAK" is _different_ and _better_. I've been waiting for this sun to come up - hopefully not just One Time. PS. Liner note: "Beyond their ken: The Bromley Boys" - who are they? --- jukka antero kukkonen (j at vrooom dot pp dot fi) helsinki finland [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 18:06:53 -0400 From: aglwsa1 at peabody dot sct dot ucarb dot com (Gary L. Wright) Subject: MISC: Various Topics E Talkers, Just wanted to pass on a few notes/thoughts in light of the new release; also in response to issues that have been raised of late. Playing orders: There had been an alternative "playlist" suggested in a previous ET newsletter that I found useful in making a tape of THRAK & VROOOM to listen to in the car. Total running time of both discs together is 87+ minutes, so it's best to use a 90-minute tape and try the following song order: SIDE A: SIDE B: Radio I Inner Garden I Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream VROOOM VROOOM Radio II VROOOM VROOOM: coda VROOOM Inner Garden II Coda: Marine 475 VROOOM People VROOOM CODA Walking on Air Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream B'Boom Cages THRAK One Time Dinosaur THRAK One Time When I Say Stop, Continue This order works best for my needs; as my drive to work is only about 10-15 minutes long, and generally I won't have the problem of listening to both versions of the same song in any given trip. Because I share my home (and stereo) with my wife and daughter, the car is the best place for me listen to this music at the volume it deserves. More Song Comments: Radio I & II - Frippertronic/Soundscapes type stuff, kept short enough to not become boring or hypnotic. Inner Garden I & II - When I tried listening to them back to back, I at first thought I had programmed one twice. I think it works out better to break them up. I do detect some similarity to "In the Court... " or "In The Wake..." Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream - The VROOOM version is the one I prefer. This is the song with the "staggered" drum effect ala "LTiA Part II". Also the similarity of the guitar to "We'll Let You Know" is more noticeable on the VROOOM version. VROOOM, VROOOM VROOOM, and assorted codas - While at first I thought that VROOOM sounded like "Red"; VROOOM VROOOM really sounds like "Red", particularly the bass & guitar part towards the middle. I can't explain the gap between VROOOM VROOOM and the coda. Note the extended bass note at the end of the VROOOM VROOOM Coda. People - This sounds like a Peter Gabriel song (may be a result of the "Funk Fingers".) Notice after the key/tempo change near the end, Fripp plays a part similar to "Thela Hun Ginjeet". B'Boom/THRAK - I like this pairing better than the "THRAK/When I Say Stop... "pairing. Basically "improvised/recorded" pieces in the vein of "Starless and Bible Black" or "Providence". Never really gels as well as the earlier songs (possibly because of too many interactions?) "B'Boom" is basically a drum solo with Soundscapes on top. Walking on Air - This is the song that most seems like a Beatles tune. Good guitar break in the middle, different from the VROOOM version. One Time- nice KC ballad-type song similar to "Matte Kudesai". About the symbol: The new KC "symbol" This seems to be an enhancement of the symbol from "Three of a Perfect Pair". At that time it seemed to be a stylized "KC" Now it seems it also can be interpreted to symbolize the "double trio" concept. Also, its possible to envision a human form depicted in the symbol. Women and KC I have been a fan of KC and Fripp music since first hearing a tape of a local garage band playing the songs from "Red" in 1975. My wife, whom I first met in 1979, never shared my enthusiasm for this music. Her musical tastes ran more along the lines of The Cars, The Police, Split Enz, etc. When KC reformed and released Discipline, she became a fan of certain songs. She loves "Matte Kudesai" and many of the similar Belew ballad songs. She also liked Lone Rhino, Mr. Music Head, and Young Lions. My point is that while there may be those who bemoan the presence of Adrian and the quality of his lyric/songwriting; perhaps his presence serves to improve the accessibility of KC music. I certainly don't agree that he detracts from the music. To paraphrase Fripp in the CompuServe forum, the music is appropriate to it's time. This new release contains enough musical references to past iterations of KC to satisfy just about any fan of any era. Granted, there will probably be a guy at any given concert who will continue to demand "In the Court..." at the top of his lungs all through the show; but if the GD box set is any indication, no KC concert is complete without this. Gary Wright Ph:(713) 212-2072 Unicom:8-544-2072 Information Technology - Union Carbide Corp. X400: C:US ADMD:MARK400 PRMD:UCARB S:WRIGHT G:GARY E-mail: aglwsa1 at peabody dot sct dot ucarb dot com Fax # (713) 212-2217 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 17:35:41 -0600 From: cheevy-james at MAIL dot UTEXAS dot EDU (James Hines) Subject: MISC: Message for The Boys Tony, Trey, Bill, Pat, Adrian, and Robert, Thank you very much for this wonderful love letter known as THRAK. All of the songs are great (Where's Cage?), but my favorite thing on the album is the Return Of The Mellotron. It made me smile the first time I heard the middle section to Dinosaur. You created the most wonderful mood in that section. The album is great and I can't wait to see some of it performed live. Also a BIG thank you to Tony for his World Diary. It pleases me every time I listen to it and IMHO it is equal to the monster that is THRAK. Thank you all for making my life better. THRAK you, James Hines cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 20:04:23 -0400 From: ThadKirk at aol dot com Subject: REVIEW: A THRAKing Disappointment Sorry fellow Crimson fans, but after waiting for an album since the mid eighties and listening to THRAK now for over two weeks, I am quite disappointed! I guess I expected more. The music is too busy. There are no "spaces" for the individual sounds to breath or to come forward. I think the double trio contains too many excellent musicians all trying to be excellent at once. There are great spots like the ripping guitar at the very end of Dinosaur, and most of B'Boom, and Vrooom Vrooom, so don't get me wrong. Belew's vocals of One Time are MUCH better on the EP Vrooom than Thrak, but I do like the faster tempo on Thrak. It'll still be wonderful to see this group live and I still remain a loyal fan. Just my thoughts.---Thad [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: msmith at crt dot doj dot gov Subject: MISC: Picture disc box set Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 21:31:13 -0500 (EST) I recently bought the Virgin picture disc box set of the first three Crimso albums. I got it mainly because i wanted the remastered editions, especially _Court_. It was also cheap (at Best Buy for $30), and what the hell--it's a "collectors' edition. 3 limited edition picture discs." This set was released in 1993, and the remastering took place in 1989. However, _Wake_ and _Lizard_ do not say they are remastered editions (_Court_ does). I suppose this was a mistake, as they do sound better (or my ears and my cheap stereo are playing tricks on me). Has anyone bought this and gave them a good listen and can attest that they are remastered? I didn't have any of the remasters, how do y'all think they compare to the old versions? (I know _Islands_ and _SABB_ had their problems with things left off...) Thrakin', Mike washington, dc [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: msmith at crt dot doj dot gov Subject: MISC: forthcoming Belew release Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 21:46:46 -0500 (EST) >From the June issue of Music News Network, the International Monthly >Progressive Rock Newsletter: "Adrian Belew has completed _The Experimental Guitar Series Volume 1: Guitar as an Orchestra_. This release is the beginning of a series of experimental guitar records to be released on Adrian Belew Presents. GAAO is Adrian's first instrumental album in ten years, includes liner notes by Robert Fripp and is scheduled to be released in late summer and distributed by Caroline Records." Please e-mail for info about MNN and how to subscribe. They're a good source for news (they had the Bruford rejoining news first that i know of). Mike washington, dc [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: msmith at crt dot doj dot gov Subject: MISC: U.K. news Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 21:56:53 -0500 (EST) >From the June issue of Music News Network, the International Monthly >Progressive Rock Newsletter: "We've just received word that U.K. is definitely on. Eddie Jobson and John Wetton have been working to define what U.K. should be in the 90's. They are developing new sounds and making new music because they can, not because they have to. The bulk of the new music will be recorded at Eddie's studio this summer and fall. Both Bill Bruford [!] and Allan Holdsworth [!!] will be playing on the new album as their busy schedules permit. John Wetton's management advised that Bruford has provided "some very cool ideas that John and Eddie intend to incorporate into the 'sound' of the new U.K." The record should be released in early 1996 and a tour may follow." I did not make that up. Sounds like good news to me. Again, anyone wanting info about MNN, please e-mail me. Vrooomin', Mike washington, dc [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 23:41:00 -0400 (EDT) From: JAY KRESS 202-233-9339 Subject: MISC: sacred songs cd (et 178) in response to nick's (Diaphanus at aol dot com) inquiry in et #178 about "...the Robert Fripp produced Daryl Hall album that came out in the late seventies...", particularly his questions whether anyone has "...any information regarding a CD copy of this?...": i own a nice japanese cd pressing of it ("sacred songs"), which dates from (23-sep-)1992. it's on the rca label, and distributed by bmg (victor, tokyo). the catalog number is bvcp-2091 there are other cd pressings (see below). my version has lyrics printed in both japanese and english, a pic or two, and what appears to be a forward, in japanese. if you want to know my secret-agent method of finding it in the marketplace (and info on the other cd pressings of it), contact me. distributors made aware of it, may close the loop hole i used. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 02:00:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Reifel Edward M <3emr1 at qlink dot queensu dot ca> Subject: MISC: bill...thanks "there's more happening in the tune 'discipline' than on the last four foreigner albums...as it were." -bill bruford, 1981 no reason for this other than a bit of shared info and a laugh. 'i say, i'm nervous as hell from all this stuff, like those guys were gonna kill me for sure' damn, i love that tune. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 04:35:57 -0700 From: ANDREA at eworld dot com Subject: GIG: KC in Milan - Teatro Smeraldo 2/5/94 Hi, I'm really envious of you all, because you still dream to see KC in concert this year ! My dream last yesterday evening when I saw them, here in Milan, in their second European show. And now, when will this ever happen again for me ? I won't describe the event, I imagine you want to discover it by yourselves. The only thing I want to tell you is : KEEP YOUR TICKET ! DO NOT GIVE IT AWAY ! You will be extremely surprised by the event, by the stage, by the instruments they use and by the tracks they.... WON'T play. Ciao Andrea P.S. If a complete concert review is required, please ask me. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:19:22 -0600 From: keeks at maroon dot tc dot umn dot edu (Tom Keekley) Subject: QUERY: Live stuff There was a note in the last ET about the Dinosaur single with Live in Argentina tracks on it. When is that disc scheduled to be released? and what tracks are live on the single??? thanks THRAK keeps getting cooler [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: msmith at crt dot doj dot gov Subject: TICKETS: annoying ticket request Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 22:09:12 -0500 (EST) Sorry to send this out to the approximate 100% of the list it doesn't apply to, but i would really *like* to hear from anyone who has one measly little ticket to either the Buffalo or Washington, DC shows. Thanks. While i'm bent on annoyance, i deride those of you who have been less than kind to THRAK. So there. Yeah, it's not Red or Discipline, but how many masterpieces you expect them to put out? As Fripp has frequently said, Crimson is a live band, and if the small taste on the "Dinosaur" single is any indication, they are going to SHRED in concert. The versions of "Elephant Talk" and "Red" heard here are simply stunning to say the least. Egg vegetable eelin', Mike msmith at crt dot doj dot gov washington, dc [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:30:10 -0700 (PDT) From: James M Murphy Subject: TICKETS: Trade: My REM tickets for your King Crimson tickets. Hi I have two tickets for REM and Sonic Youth at the Shoreline in Mountain View (just south of San Francisco) for the 16th of May, and am looking to trade them for King Crimson (Warfield) tickets. Please reply via email jmurphy at sparta dot sjsu dot edu James [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Simon O'Connor" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:44:06 -0700 Subjec: TICKETS: King Crimson Tickets I have two tickets for the June 30th show in L.A., however one of my best friends has just decided to get married the same damn day!!! Would anyone out there be willing to trade tickets for the June 29th show?? Simon -- ------------------------------------------------- Simon O'Connor, "Houston we have Digital Domain, a problem...." 300 Rose Av, Apollo 13 Venice, CA 90291 Tel: 310-314 2850 Fax: 310-314 2866 ------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:41:21 -0500 From: simon at panix dot com (Simon Egleton) Subject: TICKETS: NY Ticket trade I will give you a digital delay (12 bit, up to 4 second) made by Korg in return for a ticket to the upcoming NYC Crimso gigs. Either of the gigs. The delay is perfect for the fledgling Frippertronics (tm) indulger. Worth US$150. ------------------------------------------------------------ simon at panix dot com (212) 505 7772 voice (212) 505 2448 fax ----------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 17:09:09 -0400 From: Ecuinox1 at aol dot com Subject: TICKETS: kc - minneapolis Greetings followers of the Crimson King. A friend is wondering if anyone out there has extra tix for KC in Minneapolis, June 16. I, of course, was on the ball and got me some, and now I have to listen to his whining. So, if you got some, i got someone to take them off your hands. peace WFE Stick #307 "Le Tigre" Ecuinox1 at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:48:01 -0400 From: brett at wadsworth dot org (Brett Goldstock) Subject: TICKETS: Boston? NYC? I'll do most anything for tickets to the Boston or NYC shows. 2 or 3 tickets would be nice. -Brett brett at wadsworth dot org [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: TICKETS: Desperately need TIX for Denver, CO on 6/18 ! Date: Tue, 02 May 95 10:46:46 -0600 From: parraco at brujo dot cs dot mci dot com The 700-seat Ogden Theatre sold out in 2 days, while I was on vacation. If anyone knows of 2 seats for the show, please let me know ASAP. Price is no object at this point ! Regards, - Andy Parraco (parraco at brujo dot cs dot mci dot com) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 14:59:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Reifel Edward M <3emr1 at qlink dot queensu dot ca> Subject: TICKETS: please if there is anyone who knows of tickets available for the toronto or montreal show, please tell me by e-mail. thanks...i'm desperate. strange that the palms of my hands should be damp with expectancy... ed reifel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 03 May 95 14:45:00 0000 From: Ed Mayall To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: TICKETS: RAH tickets Fellow pachyderms, Due to an administrative cock-up, I have ended up with three or maybe four spare tickets for the sold out Albert Hall gig on 17th May. If anyone is interested in taking these off my hands, I am willing to entertain any reasonable offer (eg Bears cds). Write directly to me as I never get much email. All the best Ed [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 May 95 08:34:20 +0200 From: renne at bpb dot it (Franco.Renne) Subject: GIG SET LIST (SPOILER!): KC in Milan !!! This is the list of songs that KC have made yesterday night. great greaT greAT grEAT gREAT GREAT GREEEEAAAAAT VROOOM (with coda) Frame by frame Dinosaur One time Red B' Boom THRAK Matte Kudasai Sex sleep eat drink dream People VROOOM VROOOM Indiscipline Elephant talk (Pause) Intro ?? The talking drum LTia (part II) (Pause) Dinosaur Walking on Air -- Franco Renne [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]