From elephant-talk at arastar dot comMon May 1 08:41:14 1995 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:03:15 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #184 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 184, Friday, 28 April 1995 Today's Topics: THRAK: THRAAKKK!!!!!!!! MISC: Dinosaur CD single THRAK: complaint MISC: Gurdjieff.... MISC: Sinfield THRAK: Vrooom, snap, bang, pop, wallop, CRASH TICKETS: speaking of begging for tickets... MISC: Elephant Talk MISC: Beat . . . .Color? MISC: Wishful thinking? Mr. Levin? THRAK: review in Musician MISC: Women ET readers? THRAK: THRAK and some rambling THRAK: Gotta keep 'em separated THRAK: Thoughts on the sustained life of progressive rock MISC: SINFIELD REVIEW: THRAK & Dinosaur Single THRAK: review in Finland MISC: Sinfield post-Crimson MISC: Delurking MISC: Photos & Fripp in concert. REVIEW: THRAK: vs. VROOOM THRAK: Another THRAK review + $.02 THRAK: Primal Bellow MISC: King Crimson is not the Beatles THRAK/QUERY: BB in Modern Drummer THRAK: THIS IS A SYSTEM?!? MISC: track shuffling TICKETS: Anyone have 2 Tickets for Cincinnati??? MISC: New Guy Decloaks! MISC: reviews THRAK: a cover comment QUERY: Sylvian/Fripp laser disk sought THRAK: trivialities MISC: Useful information REVIEW: Dinosaur EP MISC: response to what about Peter Sinfield [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: an204009 at anon dot penet dot fi (Dennis Moore) Organization: Anonymous contact service Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:04:29 UTC Subject: THRAK: THRAAKKK!!!!!!!! The comic strip charater "Cathy" gets into King Crimson: "Oh no, this bathing suit won't fit! THRAK!!!!!!!!!!" Groan! [ Thanks to several other readers for pointing this out. -- Toby ] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Brian Rost Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:45:56 -0400 Subject: MISC: Dinosaur CD single I'm sure some of you may know this already, but the availability of the "Dinosaur" CD single is *immediate*, at least in the US. I went to buy "Thrak" yesterday when it came out and the single was also in the rack next to it. The title track is actually an edit of the album track (looks to be trimmed about 2 minutes), the VROOM version is the one from the EP, not the album, but has been remastered (or so it says). The three other tracks are all promised to be from the forthcoming live album. As such, I passed on it. I just hope the live set actually arrives before the single goes out of print 8^( By the way, I liked the new album, loved the Mellotron on it...only five weeks until they hit Boston! Brian Rost Ascom Nexion rost_brian at timeplex dot com ******************************************************** "Next time why don't you leave some holes in your solo, and maybe some music will fall out!!!" - Dizzy Gillespie ******************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mallende at Phoenix dot kent dot edu (mark allender - king of the universe) Subject: THRAK: complaint Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 14:43:48 -0400 (EDT) i like it! HOWEVER, the entire disc is somewhat marred in my opinion by that wretched chorus on "People". i mean, come on!! it is even a cool song without it. i was sooooo pissed! they are better than that. -- -makotu mallende at Phoenix dot kent dot edu uh... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:10:18 -1000 From: Jon Jackson Subject: MISC: Gurdjieff.... There was an album out a few years ago on Editions EG (EGED 45---1987) which was produced by Robert Fripp. It featured Elan Sicroff on piano, playing pieces by Gurdjieff and deHartman. It was called "Journey To Inaccessible Places." I have this on tape, but would like to find it on album or CD. Anyone have any suggestions? Jon Jackson jjackson at uhunix dot uhcc dot Hawaii dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 26 Apr 95 15:04:46 -0700 From: Claude Girard Subject: MISC: Sinfield Here are some info for the Peter Sinfield's worried fans. If you go to the ELP home (http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/elp-home.html) and browse through the old digest 4.19 you will read an actual email from Peter. It includes a listing of his songwriting credits and a very restrained comment on R.Fripp!! Enjoy. Claude. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 23:01:54 -0100 From: mumu2001 at bart dot nl (christian mogul) Subject: THRAK: Vrooom, snap, bang, pop, wallop, CRASH I see it's fashionable to share impressions. An (personal) oppinion : Thrack (on the whole) sucks. Vrooom suuucks tooo. Such afirmations should be explained. In this case *music speaks for itself*. Chris - still likes KC though Booob, your *perceiving the future* device - should be cleaned from time to time. mumu2001 at bart dot nl [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Ignatius O'Reily" Organization: Northland College Computer Lab Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:56:18 CDT Subject: TICKETS: speaking of begging for tickets... Anyone got some spares for the Minneapolis or Madison shows? I'll offer concubine services for a week [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:29:03 -0700 From: stick at earthlink dot net (Stick Enterprises, Inc.) Subject: MISC: Elephant Talk The host and publisher has added my name to this email correspondence list and has invited me to introduce myself as creator, manufacturer and player of The Stick fretboard instrument. As my first comment to this list I'd like to express my continual and wholehearted thanks to Robert Fripp for including musicians who play The Stick in his ongoing musical conceptions. Also, my deep appreciation to Tony Levin for his inspiring use of The Stick in the "Crimson" groups of the 80s and now again in the 90s, and to Trey Gunn for the dedication of his talents and abilities to this instrument and its technique in the Crimson setting. I've enjoyed the information and opinions that I've come upon in recent issues of Elephant Talk, and will continue to read with interest. Thanks, Toby Howard, for a specialized Internet publication of this kind. Emmett Chapman [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: fred at d2 dot com (Fred Raimondi) Subject: MISC: Beat . . . .Color? Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 15:23:45 -0700 (PDT) How come on the back of the "Beat" album, in the musician credits, everybody's name is printed in white except for Bill Bruford's? Any Ideas? Fred Raimondi D i g i t a l D o m a i n fred at d2 dot com "I talked, I told him, I'm in this band, see, I'm in this band, see . . ." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Bradley Stewart Cook Subject: MISC: Wishful thinking? Mr. Levin? Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:32:05 -0500 (CDT) Just occured to me the other day....do they market funk fingers? I don't think they do...does anyone see a market for this? I for one would be first in line. Mr. Levin..? What do ya say? :) Brad Cook bsc0150 at tam2000 dot tamu dot edu Poseidon, USA, Lizard 50 cents each in the Camelot bargain bin. Come to pappa. ;) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 23:23:22 -0400 From: Scooobadoo at aol dot com Subject: THRAK: review in Musician Howdy... Peace to all. Whether your opinion of THRAK is positive or negative, you've gotta admit it's got you talking! Much like LTIA might have provoked on-line discussion if the Internet had been accomodating enough to be accessible to the downtrodden masses in 1974. Anyway, I'm packing trouser-based excitement thinking about my 2ND ROW SEATS for the Cincinnati show, and I'd like now to share with all of you the review of THRAK from Musician magazine, June '95 (Toby, censor as legal concerns dictate...), since as we all know, professional music critics know far better than we amateurs... CRIMSON REX REDUX They're back, creeping and bounding and thrashing and insinuating, with that special endearing quality all their own. King Crimson is one of those bands with a seemingly renewable life force, having spanned over a quarter of a century thus far in various line-ups. While it's been a decade since Robert Fripp and gang have been officially active, their return comes as no real surprise. What is surprising is the new lean, mean machine of a band, a symmetrical sextet that includes Fripp and Adrian Belew on guitar, stick player Trey Gunn, bassist Tony Levin and drummers Bill Bruford and Pat Mastelotto. It's a big, happy, ornery family. Where once they sang of "cyclothymic moods" and traversed other abstruse terrain, on the tellingly bluntly titled album Thrak they come out swinging, with pummeling toms and dogmatically dirty guitars. And so it goes, with one-syllable and/or one-word titles like "Dinosaur," "People," "Sex" and variations on "Vroom." At once primal and cerebral, this is brainiac rock for those with strange urgings at other points in the body. "Vroom," for instance, is all guttural riffing based on the idea of simultaneously ascending and descending chromatic chord progressions, but headbangers need use their heads for nothing more than, well, banging. The fact is, King Crimson, in this post-'80s incarnation, is a heady hoot, for much the same reasons that it's a rickety vehicle. Somewhere in the gulf between Fripp and Belew and the other players from either side of the Atlantic, a magical friction is created. Friction, in this case, produces heat. To indulge the workable sterotype, Fripp brings his sit-down British deliberateness and broad intellectual palette to the party, while the all-American Belew goes more for the goofy notes and tones, and isn't afraid to unleash his pop wits. Belew's lovable art-pop flair arrives with "Dinosaur" ("I'm a dinosaur/Somebody is digging my bones"), which may refer both to life as middle-aged rock stars and paleontololgy. "People" has an angular, Police-y feel, while the John Lennon-esque "Sex" issues its cynical pragmatist's mock-mantra, "Sex, sleep, eat, drink, dream," before plunging into a turbulent pool of anarchic thrashing (thrakking?). Which is not to say that pop songs are the meat of Thrak's matter. It's primarily an instumental affair. Thrak is full of prickly textures, clench-fisted chords delivered with Glenn Branca-esque intensity, and tough attitudes more than prissy prog-rock notions. It's an expressionistic sonic landscape made by a guitar-based band, in which the drummers up the metric ante with fool-the-ear tactics--neatly meshed polyrhythms and oddly placed snare hits making the time signatures sound odder than they really are. King Crimson, circa 1995, continues an evolution already in progress, although waylaid by a decade. They also continue to live in a creative bubble all their own, proudly cut off from the firmament of rock fashion. Back when, they were the alternative to new wave and the fledgling newer wave represented by R.E.M. et al. This year, they're a viable alternative to Alternative. Bless their hearts and minds. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 00:28:12 -0400 (EDT) From: imperial violet Subject: MISC: Women ET readers? > From: pmartz at stick dot corp dot ES dot COM (Paul Martz) > This isn't the first time this thread has appeared. Back when ET was > "Discipline" I remember one female reader posting the query, "Am I the only > woman here?" Well thats a relief that this has been noticed previously. I've only read the first 50 and the last 50 of the back issues of this thing so far. Way too engrossing. Web access at work is a dangerous thing. > Kathleen mentions: > > Now the question is: why do women have this aversion to guitar? is it the > > instrument or a lot of the men who play it? I don't get it. Kathleen? huh? Maybe I missed something, but I could have sworn the quoted text I'm requoting was me.... it's Racheline....hrmmm.... Kathleen's a new version of it though. (my name gets mistaken for all sorts of odd things). > Not that women have an aversion to guitar, but probably more like women are > disinterested in guitar. In my mind, at least, the guitar is very much a > phallic symbol, and so it only seems natural that males would want to hang > one in front of their crotches... -- The whole phallic thing about guitar always always struck me as so obvious that it was hardly worth considering. Overlooking that, why aren't women drawn into guitar based on the music? I mean there's such a huge range of sounds you can get out of a guitar you'd think more women would get into it somewhere along the line.... oh yeah, folk.... that's the only place I ever see a lot of girls with guitars. -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 00:52:53 -0400 (EDT) From: imperial violet Subject: THRAK: THRAK and some rambling Finally picked it up.... finally got it out of the damn case....did anyone else have this problem? I have never spent so long trying to get a CD to come out of the box. Anyway.... once I finally got it into the stereo I was most most pleased. VROOM and Dinosaur are great and One Time just keeps growing on me. Definately gonna be my office album tomorrow, much to the chagrin of my coworkers I am sure. We've already had several odd conversations because of some of the LoCG stuff I was listening to. One woman I work with said her entire brain had become cognative dissonance and was now incapable of any function after I had Show of Hands playing for a bit. Ok, back to THRAK.... really don't know how I feel about People. I like it musically, but the vocals just aren't doing it for me at all-- too pop and too distracting, and they keep getting stuck in my head. -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 00:00:42 -0500 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: THRAK: Gotta keep 'em separated As was promised, the track VROOOM on Thrak is recorded with a strict stereo separation between the trios. I have my guesses as to who's on which side, but does anyone have a definitive answer? If you haven't listened to this track with headphones and a balance knob, go do it now! Then listen to how well it works as a unit. *smile* Mini-review: I like it. Slightly less mini review: VROOOM VROOOM is my favorite track at the moment... a good argument for not viewing compositions as immutable objects, but rather things to be experimented with. This Crimson is dark and rich, and will be great to see in concert. To my ears, they play as a team, and are having a good time. 'People' starts out great, but the chorus and rideout leave me unsatisfied. I'd like to hear that opening groove fleshed out more. The repetition of songs from Vrooom to Thrak and within Thrak doesn't bother me... good music is good music, and a glimpse into the evolving process is welcomed by this listener. Final comment: can anyone imagine this project without Bruford? -==-John R. Nash-==-nash at chem dot wisc dot edu-==-UW-Madison Chem. Dept-==- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 00:10:10 -0500 From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson) Subject: THRAK: Thoughts on the sustained life of progressive rock Like most self-declared hardcore Crimheads, I had my copy of THRAK at 10:30 AM on the day it was released (25.4.95 here in the US). Every time I listen to this album I like it more (and I continue to listen). There have been and will surely continue to be many reviews of the album, so I will refrain from direct reviewing, though I would like just to mention my delight at Belew's Lennon-esque vocals (and corresponding Beatles-esque music to accompany them), Fripp's right-on mellotron (and, of course, guitar), Levin's awesome bass, and particularly Bruford's straight-from-LTiA drum sounds. Gunn and Mastelotto make worthy contributions as well.... This is a great lineup, with a lot of potential for great music and artistic PROGRESS..... This leads me to my point. Though there is somewhat of a new generation of prog artists out there (I like to consider myself included, though my output with Bassius-O-Phelius has been less than widely distributed), it has been intriguing, yet quite disappointing to watch our classic prog heroes floundering about in vain attempts to resurrect themselves in the last few years. The recent work of Yes has at least shown some effort (though it fails almost unilaterally). ELP has taken prog (and humanity in general) to new lows (as if Love Beach wasn't enough, back in '79). I was fortunate enough to encounter In the Hot Seat in a record store where I could listen without purchasing. What a piece of complete and total crap! King Crimson, on the other hand, has not let us down. I had theorized, upon hearing that they were reuniting, that this would be a sure success for the sustained life of prog rock. Fripp's ideology not only makes it morally impossible for him to sell out, but it seems to demand constant artistic exploration and provide a wellspring of inspiration and commitment to his craft. Fripp's keen ear and musical sense would surely cause him to join up with the proper musicians to fulfill the musical capabilities of King Crimson. This was done to perfection. I believe in the concept of the double trio. It gives a sense of balance that I think Fripp was striving toward all along, plus it just sounds incredible! These are six extremely talented and inspired musicians, and we are all in for quite a treat! I can't wait until 16 June (my first chance ever to see KC in person, in Minneapolis). Sorry for the verbosity. Any comments are welcome. _____________________________________________________________________________ Scott T. Anderson Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, MN E-mail: sanderso at gac dot edu World Wide Web: http://www.gac.edu/~sanderso "Ignorance has always been something I excel in." -- King Crimson, "Dinosaur" ____________________________________________________________________________ _ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:55:26 +0300 (EET DST) From: Quizz Kid Subject: MISC: SINFIELD Hi folks... Somebody asked what Sinfield did after he quit KC I guess I hve read in Pingui Enciclopedia of Popular music, that ha made his own album called MANTICORE in 1973 May be I am totaly wrong... Apologies in advance... Alex [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 07:23:56 -0400 (EDT) From: DAVIREAD at delphi dot com Subject: REVIEW: THRAK & Dinosaur Single THRAK seems like the first KC album since LTiA where a conscious effort has been made to program the sequence of pieces toward listening to the album in full. The 80's band's albums showed some thought to the order, but to me, seemed to focus on individual titles rather than the album as an entity. I find it difficult to skip around or listen to individual tracks, or repeat individual tracks when listeneing to THRAK. It begs to be heard in sequence, in it's entirety. Nice job, guys! (I _do_ admit to re-listening to B'Boom, however... The moment when the hard snare starts doubling the intricate figure on the toms really does it for me. BTW: Anyone else notice a similarity between the soundscape intro to this piece and some of the music featured in the soundtrack of 2001:A Space Oddyssey? [Ligietti's 'Atmospheres', I think...?] Almost sounds like a recording being heavily [and effectively] processed. If this is case, I perceive it as an important acquisition of technique, and one which I never would have expected. If Stockhausen can do it, why not King Crimson? ) Next item: The CD single of Dinosaur. I mentioned last time that this single features three tracks from the official bootleg 'Indiscipline:Live In Argentina'. When will this album be released?! The (very limited) credits identify these tracks as 'Desk Recording by George Glossop, live engineer'. A fellow KC enthusiast on hearing them, insisted that they had to have been overdubbed, etc. in the studio, as the sound quality and performance quality are phenomenal. I personally am of the opinion that this would not be in keeping with the attitude of the band, and am willing to believe that these are 'merely' very excellent recordings of very excellent performances. I anxiously await the full release. The tracks that appear on the single are 'Cloudscape', a short and worthwhile soundscape, 'Elephant Talk', which is so full of energy and enthusiasm that I almost didn't notice the tightness of ensemble playing in it until the second listen, and 'Red', which, although a new interpretation of the piece, was so frighteningly familiar in it's structure and elements, that the biggest surprise was how few surprises there were. I recall Robert's statement in the translated interview that appeared last week, that the live shows on this tour would not be 'King Crimson's Greatest Hits', but I _do_ hope that when they hit Boston on June 2nd, that the 'moment' presents them with the opportunity to play some of the LTiA/Red period material. I'm wet with anticipation! _Dave_ addendum: I had tickets for the last Boston show in 1984, but was unable to attend due to illness. The opportunity to finally see them is something I obviously did not expect. Thanks guys, for allowing the moment to present itself! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:07:06 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tamas Vilagi Subject: THRAK: review in Finland Hi fellow ETers! I was reading just the other day the latest THRAK review in a local Finnish magazine. Thought I translate it, cause its pretty good. Here it is. KING CRIMSON/THRAK Robert Fripp is one of the stricktest visionaries of this century, and has once again exceeded all the expectations and his activities in the past. Adrian Belew has once said that there's a particular King Crimson -curse, which constantly impedes the music from radio playing. The only song to be heard on the radio at that time was "Heartbeat". THRAK has two songs of that kind: One Time and Walking On Air. However, the rest of the material is way too difficult for a large audience. There's a slight possibility of radio playing for 'People', 'Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream', and 'Dinosaur', too. The other side of the coin contains the type of material we've anticipated. Navigated by Bill Bruford and Pat Mastelotto, the band creates a world of its own. The instrumental tracks 'VROOOM', 'B'boom', and 'THRAK', and the double 'VROOOM VROOOM's represent a completely absolute type of music. Tony Levin, Trey Gunn along with producer David Bottrill are doing things in the context of low frequency and stereo image that are way ahead of their times. Although the record contains some raw RED-type songs and a couple of Discipline-ballads, there are the cleverly cut in two -pieces 'Inner Garden', and 'Radio' acting as interludes. Quite a few of the songs refer to the past in a most extollable manner. The forthcoming concerts of this formation will be something unprecedented. King Crimson is being chased by time, because 'THRAK' is a historical CD! Thats about it. There was also a two page interview with Bill Bruford, but thats a bit too long. Nice words from the press. Tamas Vilagi University of Helsinki Finland [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Brian Rost Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:00:46 -0400 Subject: MISC: Sinfield post-Crimson In #183 Anders Berggren asked: > What happened to Sinfield after KC? After the split with Crimson, Sinfield produced the first Roxy Music album (as you may recall, Bryan Ferry's Crimson audition didn't get him the gig but did get EG inteersted in him). He then started hanging with old buddy Greg Lake. His lyrics can be heard on ELP albums starting with "Brain Salad Surgery". He signed with ELP's Manticore label and recorded an LP called "Still" with ex-Crims like Lake and Mel Collins appearing. If you can find it, it's worth hearing; most of the album is in the vein of "Islands". Not surprisingly, Sinfield's voice is weak, this especially noticeable on the title track where he duets with Greg. He also continues the UK art-rock of borrowing from the classics, lifting the theme from a Vivaldi lute concerto for "Song of the Sea Goat". Brian Rost [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 10:02:12 -0400 From: Matt35m at aol dot com Subject: MISC: Delurking I have to speak. I've lurked for 5 issues now and can't believe the nonsense out here. I got THRAK three weeks ago as a demo tape and find it to be a fine effort at best, but not one people should be dying for and spending $25 to get the British import early. Get a grip, you waited years for the album wait a few more days. And let's cut down on the length of the babbling. Short and sweet folks. Everyone, enjoy the upcoming shows. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 10:20:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris March - The Bank of Bermuda Subject: MISC: Photos & Fripp in concert. Organization: Digital Equipment Computer Users Society RE: ET v95 #183 >From: johntrev at isdn dot net (John A. Trevethan) >Subject: MISC: Cincinnati THRAK show > >Also, does anyone know the policy concerning shooting photos and/or video >at the THRAK shows? Every band seems to handle this differently, so I'd like >to know in advance. From the KC concerts that I went to ( Disipline @ The Venue, Beat @ Guildford - both in the UK ) Bob Fripp did NOT like photos being taken and he stopped playing mid song when several flashes went off. Things may have changed. Regards, Chris March. MARCH_C at EISNER dot DECUS dot ORG PS THRAK hasn't reached Bermuda yet. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ba07693 at bingsuns dot cc dot binghamton dot edu Subject: REVIEW: THRAK: vs. VROOOM Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:58:39 -0400 (EDT) I just thought I'd throw my two cents in about the new album. I like _THRAK_ a lot, but it is my opinion that had KC not released _VROOOM_ first I would like _THRAK_ much better. When I first picked up _VROOOM_, those opening notes were killer. They almost hurt. Did anyone else experience this phenomenon? I was floored. I thought, wow, KC is really pushing the limits: music that is so damn hard it hurts. Almost everything on _VROOOM_ was so full of raw energy. So, when I slipped _THRAK_ into the CD player, I guess I was bracing myself for the first notes of VROOOM; and boy, was I let down. When KC is being hard and raw, I like them hard and raw, which is why I think the _VROOOM_ versions of VROOOM and SSEDD, and even THRAK, are more impressive. It is also why I think the best part of _THRAK_ is the last track. Perhaps Dinosaur infiltrated my head, but that last track just sounds like some evil monster dinosaur emerging from the depths of some tar pit, and dying in the process. I'll leave you with that pleasant imagery. Justin Weinberg ba07693 at bingsuns dot cc dot binghamton dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:23:23 -0400 From: Teakbois at aol dot com Subject: THRAK: Another THRAK review + $.02 THRAK is, in my opinion, the best KC album since Discipline. The only problems that I have with it is "VROOOM" and "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream." I like the versions on VROOOM better. It has always been appealing to me that KC sounds spontanious. The rerecordings of these songs sound almost too polished to me. The interplay between Pat and Bill are gone, and I found that the percussion in those songs to be one of the best parts. However, I can't be too picky. I can always just play VROOOM to hear them. I'm surprised more people aren't talking about "People." I love that song. The guitar line that Belew is playing in that song is AMAZING. KC at it's funkiest. "VROOOM VROOOM" brings back memories. There is a very distinct reference to "Red" in there. "In The Garden 1& 2" takes me pack to ITWoP. Does "Peace - An End" come to mind? If you like "Radio 1 & 2" you MUST get 1999 by R. Fripp. "Dinosaur" is not exactly the same, but it does remind me of "Easy Money." Anyway, I'll wrap this up. I'm looking forward to seeing KC in the Taft Theater in Cincinnati, and I think it would be great to hear them play "Doctor Diamond!" Neil Forker (Teakbois at aol dot com) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:27:19 -0500 (EST) From: MOONLIT KNIGHT Subject: THRAK: Primal Bellow The thing I hate most about _Thrak_? You simply have to play it so loud that one is bound not to get along with people who live nearby. And it's so bass-heavy that it rattles my cat across the floor. I see faults in its excessiveness -- some of the pop songs could be poppier, "Dinasour" as a single won't do much because it goes on in such an insane manner. And the connective tissue is maybe disturbing to the flow, although "Inner Garden"'s are better than "Radio"'s in that regard. Why pause between "Vrooom Vrooom" and its coda? "People" and "Walking on Air" score high both in themselves as a diversity for the album, but I miss the prominence of the woodblock percussion and the smooth tempo of the _Vrooom_ version of "One Time". But I bide my time for the whole to sink in. It is the craziest KC yet, and, the postmodern dislocation as the brain tries to decide if the earlier version of the repeated songs is definitive aside, totally amazing. The first time I listened to it, when "B'Boom" went into "Thrak", I let fly with a primal bellow. I don't know if you would call it pleasure in the normal sense, but it's all worth it to be in the moment. Jeff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:02:34 -0500 From: eclark at mail dot utexas dot edu (Erick) Subject: MISC: King Crimson is not the Beatles From: andrew dot prowse at amail dot amdahl dot com >But the rest of the album, it just sounds like a Beatles >reunion. I'm a Crimson fan, I want Crimson music on my Crimson CD's. I agree, Adrian Belew has not and will never be a member of the Beatles. He should deal with this and move on. King Crimson is a lot of things, but there not the Beatles, and that's just as well. -Erick ============================================== A view to remember The center is missing They question how the future lies . . .in someone's eyes [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:52:23 +0300 From: j at vrooom dot pp dot fi (Jukka Kukkonen) Subject: THRAK/QUERY: BB in Modern Drummer Bill Bruford notates 4 double drumming examples from Thrak for us in the May issue of "Modern Drummer". He challenges drummers to identify their locations in specific tracks. I'm no drummer, but I think the last example with the master groove in 3/4 while the other drummer (=BB) improvises in 7/8 or 5/8 might be the title track. The correct answers might be of interest to this list. Anyone? BB jokes: "...jot your findings on a postcard and send it to the Allman Brothers, Macon, Georgia. First prize: one week's rhythmic instruction with RF. Second prixe: two weeks rhythmic instruction!" All I can say is that this double-drumming band with "two hearts" is probably more interesting than BB's earlier experiments with Phil Collins (Genesis) and Alan White (Yes), but maybe Jamie Muir was the best counterpart for Bill so far... --- jukka antero kukkonen (j at vrooom dot pp dot fi) helsinki finland [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 12:58:48 -0500 From: "REX FERMIER" Organization: From IBBS#1 (Chicago) - @ibbs1.com Subject: THRAK: THIS IS A SYSTEM?!? Well I went to the local Coconuts Records store to purchase THRAK. I had been there two weeks before to make sure that I would have access to a copy of the CD. A quick jog to the King Crimson section failed to show a single copy! Fearing that they had forgotten to put the CD out for display, I went to the guy behind the counter and asked where I could find THRAK! I knew that something was up when he winced and looked at his manager. "Give it to him!", she said sternly. "Aw, but you promised!", he whined. "You can have the tape, but give him the CD," she ordered. Dejected, the clerk went into a drawer behind the counter and, after some digging, produced the CD. "What's the problem," I asked? "We only got one CD and one tape. We made a big deal about the release, even put a sign in the window, and all they would send us is two copies!" I proceeded to tell the clerk about Elephant Talk and gave him the address in order to placate him (it worked!). So the question I have is, "Why are so few copies being distributed?" Is this how things normally work? -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ + From IBBS#1 Metro Chicago + + ADDRESS REPLIES TO ID0510 at IBBS1 dot COM (REX FERMIER) + +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:24:09 -0700 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: MISC: track shuffling >From: keeks at maroon dot tc dot umn dot edu (Tom Keekley) > >One thing I thought of while listening is that (especially with the >two-part tunes) the tunes could be reshuffled to give the disc different >feels. I've never seen a band do this... Henry Kaiser has done this on several of his disks, e.g. Hope You Like Our New Direction. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Steven Roussos" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:54:00 -0400 Subject: TICKETS: Anyone have 2 Tickets for Cincinnati??? Hey fellow elephanteers! Back a few months ago I saw an ad in a Cincinnati newspaper that said that KC tickets for the show here would go on sale "This Saturday". This was the FIRST ad for the show in the papers here. So on Saturday morning at 10:00 (when ticketmaster starts selling), I call, and they say "Oh, they went on same LAST Saturday". Arggg!!!! So I check and the only seats left are way in the back of the hall under the balcony. I LOVE KC, and would be thrilled to see them, but I just couldn't bring myself to pay $30 for claustrophobic seats too far away to really see anything. So, does anyone by any incredibly slim chance happen to have 2 spare tickets for reasonably good seats to the Cincinnati show? If you do, email me, please! Thanks! ..Steve steven dot roussos at sdrc dot com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven M. Roussos ~ Views expressed are my own steven dot roussos at sdrc dot com ~ SDRC, 2000 Eastman Dr., Milford, OH 45150 "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." [Thomas Jefferson to groups of religious critics who demanded that the U.S. be a theocracy.] "A mind unfed feeds on itself" - Truman Capote ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 18:05:52 -0500 From: thequail at cthulhu dot microserve dot com (Lord Arioch of the Seven Darks) Subject: MISC: New Guy Decloaks! Hello. I must admit that I have been lurking this list for a while, and I have finally decided to uncloak. (cue up: Vrooom to THRAK.) It seems like a very cool group of people, and I like to see such an open musical forum for intelligent listerners. Or as Laurie Anderson says: "difficult listening hour," what my friend always said when I threw on a KC album. Well. THRAK is pretty great eh? I've read all your reviews, so I won't add anything. My dreams are fulfilled. Angels sing. Belew and Fripp are together again. Mozart wins - "Too many notes." Sartori in Enola. But, I have a few things to throw out, if I may: in the last issue, Anders says: > What happened to Sinfield after KC? > Has he written anything since? > Is it good? Well, this is a question I have asked myself a few times before! Are you familiar with his other lyrics: Emerson Lake & Palmer's stuff, AND his solo album! It is called "Stll," and it has Wetton and Lake on some tracks. They have strange names. It is surprisingly peaceful and mellow! As for "where is he now," I think he was abducted by aliens in 1977. . . . Oh, and on the Prog rock forum: has anyone given Echolyn a listen? They are a Pennsylvania Progressive group, and their first album, "As the World," ain't half bad. A bit self-conscious, but well spirited. Like Phish playing Supertramp with Marrillion's old equipment, with Van der Graaf Generator owning the rights. ;8-/ (ouch. sorry.) At least worth a listen. . . . (but I am, of course, from PA, so - ?) OK - Another reference, to establish how hip I am - Adrian plays guitar on a few tracks of NIN's "Downwards Spiral;" I assume most of you know this, but I haven't seen it mentioned. before, but I am a newbie, after all. Speaking of "new" - I saw a bit of a debate being waged about new music. All I can say, is Primus is pretty damn good - Rush and King Crimson inspired lunacy. There, I said it. Primus sucks. (SALESMEN!!!--- I love it!) Other vague touches of King Crimson sounds, I believe, can be heard in Morphine,the group, not the opiate - especially on the CD "Cure for Pain." Morphine - bass, sax and drums - has clear touches of Velvet Underground sleaze meets Lizard/Island sax and horns. Is it possible for me not to compare groups? Well, I think. Catherine Wheel has a song called Fripp on their album "Chrome." It is named for obvious reasons. Now *this* is going to sound strange, so feel free to let loose your slings and arrows: I hear the occasional touch of King Crimson in - gasp! - Soundgarden. Now, don't yell. Only on one or two songs, like "Holy Water" from Badmotorfinger. I know, next I'll be telling me Fripp played guitar for the Roches. . . . Or that Curt Cobain loved "Red". . . . Um. Well, thanks for your time. By the way, Fripp and Summers have two albums out, "I Advanced Masked," and "Bewitched." (This for a gentleman who asked, I accidentally deleted the issue of ET with his name, though, sorry. . . . ) OTHER MUSIC OF NOTE: for those who like KC's more expreimental noise. Try "Einst=FCrzende Neubauten," a German industrial/prog group. Or try "Mercury Rev" the only group to have the plug pulled at Lollapalooza. Heh heh. By the way, any Nektar fans out there? I am sorry if I am just telling some of you things you already know. I just thought I should sacrifice up a few Trivioids to bring the gods' favor on my first post . . . -----------------------------------#-------------------------------- The Great Quail | TheQuail at cthulhu dot microserve dot com rivverrun Discordian Society | AOL: LordArioch at aol dot com c/o Allen Ruch | Voice/Fax: (717) 732-6734 315 Second Street | Enola, PA 17025 | "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Brett Laniosh Subject: MISC: reviews Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:21:52 +0100 Organization: Catshill Don't be concerned about poor reviews, KC have ALWAYS had poor reviews. I always remember the reviewers in the Melody Maker and NME dislike of the stuff during the early 70's. When Lark's came out there was a noticable upturn in comments, this continued with Starless but they always made the comment that something wasn't quite right with the records. Daft init? These albums still sound superb, long after these reviewers comments have almost been forgotten! I reckon a KC record is a very safe bet, I'll always buy one before hearing it! -- Brett Laniosh Catshill, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire [Packet:G4NZK @ GB7PZT.#24.GBR.EU] An Oblique Strategy .. Fill every beat with something [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:58:21 +1000 From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) Subject: THRAK: a cover comment having just got my thrak, on now (is that a mellow melotron break in the middle of dinosaur), the question arose how to say something new, but also to let people know i'd got it. and i realised no-one had commented on the cover. disregarding the box sets - this is the most complex KC cover yet. a brief personal aesthetics ITC: striking cover, memorable, somewhat dated, naive art Wake: the pits - the worst cover, dark, gloomy, bad art Lizard: also somewhat naive, but there is fun relating the cover to the tracks. islands: pretty pictures, spacey, but whats the point earthbound: the simplicity underlines the budget release until earthbound, we seemed to be in a phase of developing complex pictures which somehow reflected the music. island fell into a period spaceydruggy farout feeling. larks: beautiful - simple but very effective starless: similar simple beauty, the tom phillips aspect makes it my favourite red: at last, a boring band cover shot: does this reflect a lack of interest in the band? USA: simple but effective image, relationship to the music? simple covers for complex music. discipline/beat/three: these covers make a very nice trio. the layout is similar (it is a shame the same typefaces and spacings weren't used, with the colour and symbol individualising the albums. a similar aesthetic to the first peter gabriel albums having the same name, but allowing more differentiation. the simplicity again belied the music, although it seems less complex. vroom: big long cover for a little album. and now thrak the KC symbol continues, and reflects the interest in simple immages/symbols of earlier KCs. the front cover is reminiscent of USA - the metal, but also of much russel mills stuff. lyric sheet: the layout makes the songs into concrete poetry: different spacings, layouts. very interesting. VROOOM snap, bang, pop, wallop, crash THRAk, backwards under the lyrics, seems to reflect RF's definitions of the words. the picture under the long, single line of titles on the other side, reflect one of the titles they include (car: vrooom, bones:dinosaur etc), somewhat like the picture puzzles of lizard and wake. so a seven sheet cover (8 including the order form), of complex, detailed art in both image and typography. an interesting piece of work. and the music? so far i am enjoying it - nice mix of bombastic, complex and gentle. jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:40:14 -0500 From: d dot lawrence at mail dot utexas dot edu (Donald Lawrence) Subject: QUERY: Sylvian/Fripp laser disk sought I have lurked and now I must ask. Does anyone have imformation about the availablity of the Laserdisc mentioned here before of Sylvian & Fripp live in Japan? I would apreciate any e-mail response about it. I bought both Tony Levin's World Diary and KC's Thrak this last week. They are both quite good. Recommended Thanks to Toby for the work on this mostly excellent forum. ---------------------------------- Donald Lawrence e-mail d dot lawrence at mail dot utexas dot edu ********************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 02:21:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: THRAK: trivialities Small things: 1. Is that a Speak & Spell I hear on "Marine 475"? And do the numbers mean anything? 2. Does anyone know where the silly piano music at the end of "VROOOM VROOOM: Coda" came from? I think that's absoluately hilarious and totally makes the album. 3. Is it true that the little cowboy in the photo is a very young Master Fripp? 4. On VROOOM, am I correct in assuming the trios are arranged as such: Left speaker: Robert, Bill, Trey Right speaker: Adrian, Pat, Tony THRAK, JP mohanjp at ac dot grin dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: MCNICHOT at cgs dot edu Subject: MISC: Useful information The last time I saw Fripp, the place was dark and he just put his hands up to his guitar and someone in the audience took a flash picture. He immediately dropped his hands and glared into the audience right at the spot where the flash came from. Needless to say, he looked agro. Also, I think he has said things about being uptight about the moment being ruined when someone tries to preserve it. Now, I know the obvious answer is, "why make a record then?" but my point is, I think Robert is not a big fan of flash pictures and bootleg videos (regardless of my own feelings!). Oh, by the way, that is Belew who does the overdub on Frame by Frame's version of Cadence and Cascade vocals. He did it in 1991. So far, they have not done it live so, we'll see if they do. mcnichot [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 13:31:23 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: REVIEW: Dinosaur EP From: feathers at gate dot net (Michael Feathers) Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive Subject: REVIEW: KC's Dinosaur EP Date: 26 Apr 1995 21:37:34 GMT Yesterday I went to the local record store and forced them to go into the stock room and find me the copies of _Thrak_ that they hadn't put on the shelf yet. I feel sorry for them. I must have looked rather desparate when I didn't find _Thrak_ on the shelves. The store manager also found the CD single for 'Dinosaur.' I read the track list and discovered that it contains three tracks from the upcoming live album, in addition to the studio versions of 'Dinosaur' and 'Vrooom.' Needless to say, I snatched it up! The CD has the following live tracks: 'Cloudscape', 'Elephant Talk', and 'Red.' They are pretty damned good. 'Cloudscape' is a short haunting, atmospheric piece. It consists of spatially whirling Fripp soundscapes backed by the rest of the band. It segues into 'Elephant Talk.' 'Elephant Talk' is rather spirited. Fripp does not do any of the 180 m.p.h cross picking that marked the 80s studio release of this song. Instead, he plays this sharp heavily syncopated rhythm part. It sounds almost like something that Edge would play in U2. Imagine his guitar rhythms in 'In the Name Of Love.' It just occurs to me that perhaps those rhythms are Trey Gunn on stick. I just thought of that because I was about to mention that there are a lot swirling soundscape effects going on over the whole song. Perhaps that is Fripp. It is really neat. Kind of like the spatial stuff that Ozric Tentacles does as a matter of course. I wish the mix were clearer for the background instruments, however. 'Red' is devastating. I think that the key to 90s Crimson has to be the percussion department. Bill and Pat play beats precisely where they aren't and in places I've never heard beats before. The effect is menacing. The only downside to this rendition is the fact that Adrian hams up some of the guitar lines a bit with Van Halen-esque harmonic overtone flourishes. Out of place, Adrian. On the whole, a fine disk. Get it. -- ~-=: The best test of tolerance is it's reaction to intolerance :=-~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mallende at Phoenix dot kent dot edu (mark allender - king of the universe) Subject: MISC: response to what about Peter Sinfield Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Anders Berggren was complaining about the quality of the lyrics since Belew started writing them for KC man, i totally agree. actually, i like the lyrics on _Discipline_ a lot -- and _Beat_ is pretty good lyrically as well. TOaPP was IMHO the beginning of the disease if you will. Model Man, Man With an Open Heart, Sleepless -- they are too pegged down and not as eloquent as lyrics of crimsons past. listen to Fallen Angel -- or Easy Money, for example. on THRAK, Dinosaur and People really get on my nerves lyrically (at least with my first few listens). to me they have the grace and smoothness of a potato. and i think THRAK is an amazing album. i do like Palmer-James's lyrics better than Sinfield's, however. -- -makotu mallende at Phoenix dot kent dot edu uh... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]