From elephant-talk at arastar dot comSat Apr 22 13:01:20 1995 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:21:57 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #182 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 182, Friday, 21 April 1995 Today's Topics: INTERVIEW: Fripp interview in Rock & Folk BELEW: Adrian on FZ releases QUERY: Frame by Frame TOUR NEWS: Crimson Tour MISC: PFM MISC: an intro MISC: Re: Female members of ET MISC: a few cents.. MISC: Progressive/THRAK MISC: Women ET readers? INFO: Thrak/Noteworthy DISCOG: Re: Sylvian-Fripp TV Show (in ET#181) REVIEW: Tony Levin's WORLD DIARY INFO: ABCD catalog REVIEW: NZ press slags THRAK QUERY: Bears Recordings Availability QUERY: of July '69 Hyde Park concert? TICKETS: Another Annoying Ticket Beg (NYC? Philly?) TICKETS: KC NYC Tickets to Trade TICKETS: An old man... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Hi everyone. Just to alert you that the ET FAQ has been substantially revised, and is now at: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk-faq.html and a reduced ascii version at ftp.cs.man.ac.uk in /pub/toby/elephant-talk/et-faq.txt For this issue of ET I've added subject tags. Let me know (private email) if you think it works/helps. Thanks Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 09:23:22 CST From: "DANIEL A. KIRKDORFFER" Subject: INTERVIEW: Fripp interview in Rock & Folk (Part 1) Fellow Parleurs en Elephant! The May issue of the French magazine "Rock & Folk" has a interesting 4 page interview with Robert Fripp about himself and King Crimson. It includes an arty photograph of the new band. Az iem shorr mozst eeetee ridders arr nit fluint whiz ze languige Francaise, I thought it would be good fun to translate and transcribe this interview into English for y'all (and to practice my very rusty French). (Disclaimer: The following is an example of what you get when you translate English into French and back again into English (especially when I do the translating!). I have tried as best I can to choose words that Fripp would most likely have used when translating, but at the end these are as much my words as they are his, so I question the value of quoting any of this - paraphrasing would be more appropriate. Still, it is an interesting interview that I hope ET readers find was worth the effort to translate - beaucoup d'heures et quatre dictionaires.) Following the usual interview introductions and habitual musician's bio, and an explanation that Fripp was against doing interviews but that he was making an exception here, Fripp begins (note: all ellipses are copied, not added): Fripp >> I began playing guitar December 24, 1957. My mother and I were shopping the day before Christmas, in a little town near Wimbourne, and we qfound an Egmond Brothers. A lady had returned this guitar to buy another more expensive one. It was a terrible instrument, and impossible to press the strings beyond the 7th fret. It demanded a colossal physical effort that I had to integrate into my technique. I took me more than 13 years to get rid of the damage that could have been forever irreparable. The beginnings were primordial. One year with this instrument was enough to mess up my playing. Don Strike, my future teacher, lived only a few minutes from my home. If I had known him earlier, he would have found me another instrument, but unfortunately the shop keepers were only there to make money. After three months of self-teaching, I met Kathleen Gartell, a Christian woman in the Salvation Army, who ran a music school to keep young children with nothing to do busy. A few weeks later I had already mastered everything she could teach me, and she recommended Don Strike to me. Three years ago, I received a letter from her, following the death of her husband, to congratulate me on my marriage to Toyah. At 12, I changed guitar to a Rosetti a little less atrocious. Don then taught me the basics of the guitar, since Kathleen being a pianist, could not teach me any technique. Don's teachings were based on the Big Bands of the 20's. A multi-instrumentalist, he also mastered Hawaiian guitar, banjo...His wife would often appear in a flashy skirt to do a little hula-hoop...A real character who taught me a great deal by connecting me to tradition. One can only learn the guitar alone, all good teachers know that. But a good teacher puts an apprenticeship in an historical perspective. I remember from the very beginning having developed the technique of cross-picking, that no one was using at that time. At 14, Don Strike told me it was time I played in a band, and the Ravens was my first; since then I've spent 33 years and 9 months on the road. I also started giving guitar lessons at the age of 13 at Mrs. Gartell's school. At 17, another music store asked me to give guitar lessons. There was a convivial aspect, with all these musicians gathering at Don's home, discussing things...He then asked me if I would like to handle all his students. At the time, the importance of this request didn't seep in. He was a very proud man, and what he had just done must have cost him. From the age of 16 to 19 I worked with my father in real estate. At university I learned economics, political economics, history and political doctrines. To survive I played in a Jewish hotel in Bournemouth. Andy Summers had just left this big band to play with Zoot Money. At 20, I realized that I had to make the decision to become a professional musician and to dedicate myself completely to it. I played with The League Of Gentlemen in the region of western England. I'd close the office at 6 and jump in the truck for some far off town. At 8 we would be on stage, playing our takes of the Beatles and the Four Seasons, complicated instrumentals of the "Orange Blossom Special" type by the Spotnicks. I ignored the fact they had sped up the tape and tried to play as fast...I was rarely at home before 2 in the morning. On the way back I'd practice my technique, diatonic arpeggio exercises, I'd fall asleep and often wake up with my hand still in the process of playing... Rock & Folk >> In your life as well there has been a need for a break, when in 75 after the dissolution of King Crimson you declared: "the time has come for mobile units..." Is it really possible to start from scratch in music? Fripp >> Why guitar lessons? Because I had the time to give them. I gave them at age 13, 17, 21 and 28...I know I will give more lessons or reform King Crimson. Every 7 years there are some changes in my life, it is irrational but it happens in music too. Two things allow us to characterize these changes. The effect of surprise: "how could that have happened?" And the sense of the inevitable: "how could that not have happened?" One recognizes the change by the sense of surprise, the rationality then constructs a notion of inevitability. At certain moments in my life, I pulled back from the noise and the confusion to allow the future to present itself and it has always worked. When King Crimson finished touring in 84, I isolated myself for 3 months. The result: I met my wife, a wonderful surprise, and the Guitar Craft seminar, another wonderful surprise. People asked me, "Why did you propose to marry this woman?" Well, because I knew it was my wife. "How did you know?" How could I not have known, there is a resonance...I proposed to my wife who very kindly, and generously accepted, and May 16 1986, the day of my 40th birthday, we were married at the Fripp family church where my great great great grandfather died in 1752, and my father is also buried, joined by my 92 year old mother...Since 86 until 91 when Guitar Craft played in Europe, I only dealt with personal affairs, I was not making any money from my record company. In 91, EG, my own label, took me to court and menaced me...I've spent these past 4 years in judicial battles with BMG and Virgin Publishing, and with my management, EG, who betrayed all of its artists by selling its catalog without compensating any artist with royalties. Four years of my life on the brink of bankruptcy, because my record company EG was also my manager since 69, a judicial aberration that could not happen today. These people had access to everything related to myself and totally controlled my interests. My tour with David Sylvian in 93 was a breath of fresh air, the first in many years. In July 93, my dear mother passed away while holding my hand. Following that I put King Crimson back on its feet. Bill Bruford still being managed by EG, I had to wait until he was freed...That was four years of darkness, of nights spent faxing the world until dawn, of holding together with coffee...I made it through thanks to Discipline Global Mobile, my new label, putting into practice my theories >from 20 years ago...When I spoke of leaving the prehistoric world, of the need for new mobile units, of reducing production and distribution costs, I was hoping that EG would understand that I was also addressing myself to them...But there you are, too bad...My label doesn't have the money to do promotional work, but one of these CDs can, by selling for 10 times less than a disc produced by Virgin, bring in as much money. Furthermore, the artists on my label give me nothing, they pocket 100% of the earnings... Rock & Folk >> "In The Court Of The Crimson King" was a real stepping stone in the agonizing pool of Swinging London. What was that monster on the cover? Fripp >> Barry Goldberg was not a painter but a computer programmer. That painting was the only one he ever did. He was a friend of Peter Sinfield, and died in 1970 of a heart attack at age 24. Peter brought this painting in and the band loved it. I recently recovered the original from EG's offices because they kept it exposed to bright light, at the risk of ruining it, so I ended up removing it. The face on the outside is the Schizoid Man, and on the inside it's the Crimson King. If you cover the smiling face, the eyes reveal an incredible sadness. What can one add? It reflects the music. I was never impressed by heavy metal. Nobody at the time sounded like us in concert. For me "Schizoid" was the first heavy metal track, that sound of an electric saxophone going through a Marshall amp...As for Michael Giles, he was a phenomenal drummer. No rock drummer could touch him in 69. Rock & Folk >> What was rock like back then? Fripp >> I was a young man without work signed to Decca. I arrived in London in 67 with Sergeant Pepper's bubbling inside of me. Hendrix, Bartok string quartets, an experience of passionate music...That was the power of rock in those days, without money, without the support of record companies. We were punky, like each new generation. It was the time of the student demonstrations in Paris, of Vietnam...Rock music spoke directly to youth. There was a sense of community, not yet of distance between the public and the artist...It didn't survive 1970. Rock & Folk >> Did you know that Kurt Cobain was a big fan of your album "Red"? Fripp >> I found out through John Wetton last year. The producer of the first Nirvana records told him: "I saw King Crimson in 74, I was 16 and I thought I saw God." He told John that "Red" was an important record to Kurt. Rock & Folk >> Why did you release "Vrooom" on a small label? Fripp >> The deal with Virgin simply wasn't signed yet. We recorded our rehearsals and we have already sold 50,000 copies in the States. The major labels are dinosaurs, a big body and a little brain. Virgin is headed by someone I admire and who is a little more human than the others. The problem is that it doesn't do any good to promote the music, you have to let it speak for itself and make it available...There will be other new King Crimson records on my Discipline Global label..."Thrak" released on Virgin is my best record since 79. But a live record will soon be out of the band recorded in Argentina. Since people like bootlegs, let them at least buy a good one, recorded and mastered in digital in three weeks by Robert Fripp and David Singleton...I started recording our concerts in 72 with magnetic tape... Rock & Folk >> Why was "Thrak" recorded in Peter Gabriel's Real World studios? Fripp >> It's the only place in the world that I like recording. The studio was built with thought to the quality of the music and it shows. Gabriel spent 5 million pounds on this studio. Thank you Peter Gabriel. Rock & Folk >> What will the new live show be like, will there be a retrospective dimension, inasmuch as "Thrak" renews a lot of the 70's Crimson sound?...As if one shouldn't be ashamed any longer of being progressive... Fripp >> In 81 I had a very clear idea of the way that Crimson should have sounded, but at the end of a year of touring, Bill and Adrian wanted to make changes. I asked Bill to use an electronic drum kit and to no longer hit the cymbals. As for Adrian, I asked him to modify his approach to the guitar...But at the end of a year, the cymbals had reappeared...Some people say Fripp is a dictator, but see, I've always made concessions, and in any case you can't tell musicians of that stature how they should play...Especially since the money is split equally by each member of the band. As for your question about being progressive, during the 81-84 period, there were in fact some things that one couldn't envisage anymore. Certain prejudices against the word "progressive" (which is not one for me and that I never use) have since disappeared. When we started we didn't say that we were punky, but in 77 that became possible, the same is true concerning progressive music... The act of musical performance in a commercial context is quasi impossible. No book exists to address the complexity of this question. If I walk on stage with the idea that I am in the process of promoting my latest record, then the music is already dead. The same goes for interviews. I cannot conceive of interviews as a means to promote my music. All that matters is the quality of the performance, which involves a number of things. If I'm in a classic 3000 person theater hall, how do I play knowing that I don't hear the musicians well, that a part of the audience is too far away to see? Not to speak of the people on the sides who can't hear well...The traditional post-napoleonic theaters were created to separate audience and artist, so as to ease the idea that the artists are gods, but also to make distinctions within the audience itself. The rich in front, the poor behind, the very rich people with mistresses in the little boxes above. The traditional theaters were created so that nothing and no one communicates. Its catastrophic... Rock & Folk >> That leaves drugs... Fripp >> They open the door an instant, but afterwards that door closes itself, the musicians know the price they must pay, the public does too... Rock & Folk >> You still have no idea what you are going to play in less than a month. Of what you would like to play/not play, will there be more >from "Red", more psychedelia, more world-fusion? Fripp >> These past four years I negotiated. These past 18 months, Virgin treated me like I was an enemy. I went to the USA in a bad state, to give one week of guitar classes and performances. I came back with lots of music, and then Virgin demands that I spend days and months doing promotional work in the USA and Europe. I put my guitar down and I haven't touched it since...I said to Virgin: "There's a price to pay. Do you want a new King Crimson record in 18 months? Well there won't be any way that will happen if you continue to harass me." There's a whole lot of new King Crimson music that we won't be playing on this tour because I'm currently doing an interview with you today. King Crimson has never done a Greatest Hits Tour. Will it ever? No. King Crimson plays music that is governed by three essentials: the time, the place and the people. Rock & Folk >> Will there ever be a reunion of former members of the band? Fripp >> I'm constantly getting calls from former members of the band due to legal affairs with EG. Every former King Crimson member has always expressed the desire to work together again. In theory nothing would please me more. In reality I already have new musicians and my idea of a reunion of former King Crimson members would probably not suit them. These people think that they were part of the only real King Crimson. I have my own ideas as to how we could use these former members of King Crimson, but I have other priorities... Rock & Folk >> Have you heard "Testing To Destruction", the new David Cross solo album? Fripp >> No... Rock & Folk >> What do you think in general about contemporary guitarists, >from The Edge to Steve Vai? Fripp >> I never comment on other musicians. There is however an extraordinary rebound of the instrument...In 69 there was a great hostility and great prejudice toward technique and intelligence in music, as if one had to be stupid and incompetent to matter in British rock. Today it's like athletics, where people are ready to lose a competition to make money. The athletic spirit is dead, the guitarists, although more and more technical, play only on the surface...But there are some extraordinary young musicians... Rock & Folk >> There is a big return to the idiomatic in music, blues, country, forms of expression simple and "pure", that you have never encountered in your 25 year career... Fripp >> I've never thought in terms of categories. "Starless And Bible Black", "Red", "Larks" don't sound like the blues... Rock & Folk >> Unless one considers the sometimes fretful nature of your playing as a personal interpretation of the blues? Fripp >> The vocabulary of the blues is very limited, but some musicians with a great expressive ability know how to live with it. Take for example the English language. There are a thousand ways to pronounce the same word by using different accents. The same with words of the same sentence...This is also true of the blues. In 67, I wondered more what would have happened if Hendrix had interpreted Bartok's string quartets, or Stravinsky's "Rites of Spring". Hendrix with his power, his distinct style, his cutting edge in a totally different framework. The merging of the Afro-American culture, the blues and jazz, and the tonal harmonic European system. For me, "Larks Tongue's in Aspic" tried to answer this question: later I tried to enlarge the framework of African music with "Discipline"...So, o.k. I'm not a blues guitarist, but I think I've met the Spirit of the blues several times... Rock & Folk >> Do you at least play the blues at home, to relax? Fripp >> No. In 73 I was good friends with Robin Trower. He played me the blues, made me tapes...He educated me in the blues vocabulary, that I adore. Clapton, Mayall with the Bluesbreakers...But that's not my path. Rock & Folk >> An idea comes to mind. Would the solo on David Bowie's "Fashion" not in fact be the most bluesy thing you ever recorded? Fripp >> Yes, that's a wonderful example. There's blues-rock played with a contemporary grammar. Yes, a very good example, thank you. Rock & Folk >> Krishna-Murti, Gurdjieff...? Fripp >> I don't know any of these people, their names say nothing to me... Rock & Folk >> Of course, of course...Has the gurdjieffian theory of multiplicity not modified the question of harmonic intervals, and your scales in half key? Fripp >> If the question is to know if I have a discipline of life, the answer is yes. But I don't see things in categorical terms... Rock & Folk >> We know that you are sensitive to the oriental way of thinking, not centered around a subject that represents the world... Fripp >> Yes, exactly...Let's take the example of karate. Is it something that each time is new and different? Yes. If I don't think that each situation is different I lose the fight. A lot of people in Guitar Craft have done martial arts. As for me, a little tai-chi...The question is to know if one is interested by a consciousness of this discipline, no? You must not think during the confrontation, discipline is always present within me, all those names that you mentioned to me as well, but I must not think about it... Rock & Folk >> Will you ever write about your method of playing? Fripp >> No. Everything that I can think of that would seem important to me does not give me the impression it could be recorded in a book. Rock & Folk >> Hyde Park in 69 with the Stones, rock in its satanic sense, does that say anything to you? Fripp >> There were a lot of people (laughs). It was a big event, and it was free. If the estimated 700,000 people had paid for their tickets it would have been a disaster, with riots, etc. Since it was free it left the door open, people didn't expect much of anything, and were ready to graciously welcome the unknown. Rock was a way to reunite people. We could be considered as spokespersons. Rock & Folk >> Is this quasi religious vision of rock dead, and do you regret that? Fripp >> The spirit of 69 never made it to 1970. But to say that rock is dead, certainly not. Every day there are young musicians of all ages that continue to play rock. The spirit of this music is alive. Even if the industry has closed a lot of doors to the music. The means and possibility that music can still be produced in this commercial culture has been very reduced, with all that conspires so that the music cannot be produced. These interviews that I'm forced to do, risk to compromise future concerts. But everything can still happen. I am here. ------------ Fin ------------ Daniel Kirkdorffer e#kirkd at ccmail dot ceco dot com - ...In the way that that is the way, that is the way it is, that is, it is the way... ("I may not have had enough of me but I've had enough of you" Robert Fripp) - [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: leasnr at btco dot com Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:13:25 -0400 Subject: BELEW: Adrian on FZ releases Someone recently queried as to whether Adrian Belew is on any of the last three volumes of FZ's _YCDToSA_. He appears on vol. 6, mostly on material that has already been available in the Baby Snakes movie/video. There is at least one track, "White Person", that wasn't. Adrian is listed as being in the band for that song and is very likely one of the voices on it. N. Rob Leas leasnr at btco dot com <*** Music is the best. - FZ ***> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Fleiss Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:29:25 -0400 Subject: QUERY: Frame by Frame In the book that comes with _Frame_by_Frame_ (three or so pages before the end), Robert Fripp comments on the book that came with _The_Young_Person's_Guide_, and then he makes a comment about the family tree, about a band he was in that should have been in the tree. (Wish I had it here so I could quote him, but I lent it to a friend.) I assume that he's referring to a Pete-Frame-style family tree, but where is it? _Young_Person's_Guide_ didn't have a family tree. I have a book by Pete Frame, _Rock_Family_Trees_, which has a King Crimson/Roxy Music family tree that starts with Giles, Giles and Fripp. Is this the family tree that Fripp was referring to in the _Frame_by_Frame_ book? -- David Fleiss dfleiss at pipeline dot com "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world -- it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 18 Apr 29 20:36:55 -0600 From: scentral Subject: TOUR NEWS: Crimson Tour FYI - the word is out that Crimson will play Asia after this summer US dates, and ultimately will return to the U.S. in November. Once I get more specifics, I will pass them along, but they are evidently planning to get those southern US dates that they're missing on the first US leg. Thanks for the American management company information you sent me a couple of weeks back - it was very helpful and they were very nice when I called them. More as it develops, and thanks again. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 01:57:20 -0400 (EDT) From: San Francisco Treat <99tolsma at lab dot cc dot wmich dot edu> Subject: MISC: PFM Hello to all ETer's. I have also been lurking on this forum for a few weeks now, but I decided to throw some of my words on here with the kindness of Toby @8^). In response to Michael Peters, yes, PFM is a killer 70's band that tends to remind me more of Yes in the sense that they use a lot more blues figures. L'insola D' Niente is one of my favorites mostly because of the title track, but there is so much composition to the songs that it's unbelieveable. I also think Chocolate Kings is a good disc to give an overview of the band's extreme talents. Next order of business, has anyone heard of Magma, a French band headed by Christian Vander? I have a live disc and a studio album that are both mind-blowers. The language is Magma though, so it's basically impossible to understand unless you happen to know one of them ,but all in all, I think they're excellent. Finally, for all of you wondering why I'm putting all this on a King Crimson forum, I haven't heard THRAK yet, but VROOOM gives me shivers when I hear it. I'm a big fan of all KC, but largely 73-75 stuff; VROOOM gives me hope that music isn't deteriorating into a big mass of blah. Being a multi-instrumentalist, the level of musicianship on this album hits home and helps me to aspire to an even greater level. Plus I think Bruford "...plays some hot sh*t on the drums." @8^) Well, almost finally, I think a good example of understanding Bruford's approach to utilizing two drummers is "Cinema Show" off of Genesis' release, Seconds Out. Very similar to Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream in the final ram section. I have the privlidge of having a live Genesis laserdisc from '76 with Bruford. His interps are amazing...anyway, this has already gone longer than I planned, but I'd like to say that it's good to find a forum where this can all be discussed. Thanks for all the time and effort... Cameron Taylor Banana Nirvana Manana OohLahLah Tumbulah Bumbulah Bulah! -Gong [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 02:30:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Reifel Edward M <3emr1 at qlink dot queensu dot ca> Subject: MISC: an intro i hope this posting is in the appropriate format and address. i'm kind of a novice as far as the 'net' goes. hope this is ok. i'm a new member of ET and i love it. this is music that should qreally be discussed. i'm a graduating music student of queen's university, kingson ontario, canada and i've been a KC fan for many years now. i have found that many music students that i've come across are completely uninformed of the music or even existence of KC...how unfortunate. when i graduated from highschool, i figured that a university music department would hold many KC or at least progressive rock fans...oh well. much to my horror, when i scouted my new fellow students, most of them listened to top 40-type music. what i'm getting at here (i think) is that it's very nice to finally be able to see discussions of their music. i've so far managed to write three papers on robert fripp for my music courses. this is the result of sheer manipulation of professors on my part. thanks for all of your messages! i'd just like to say one thing. even though vrooom is not their strongest, i love it. in fact, even if the album sucked, i would love it anyway. i'm very dedicated and even bad KC is good to me in comparison to other music out there. for those of you still reading, my latest fripp paper is on his rhythmic organisation in king crimson. so far, i've analysed larks' tongues part I and II, frame by frame and discipline. bruford was right when he said; 'there's more happening on the song, discipline, than the last four foreigner albums put together.' thanks bill. if anyone has any rhythmic insights please let me know. thanks, ed reifel. strange...that the palms of my hands should be damp with expectancy. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:15:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Damon C Capehart Subject: MISC: Re: Female members of ET How amusing! Daniel K.'s post regarding female members of ET was placed IMMEDIATELY before posts by an Ashley AND a Sarah! Of course I know Ashley could be a guy's name, and yes, there may be some foreign names whose gender I can't tell... There was also a post by a Drew, but I that's one of those either-way names, too. Damon Capehart | "SALESMEN!!!" -- Rush dcapehar at utdallas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:30:26 -0500 From: Glenn Astarita Subject: MISC: a few cents.. Hi, In the last digest someone mentioned the italian band PFM.....Brings back memories. I had 2 of their records and enjoyed their stuff at the time. Sounds a bit dated now.... Also, someone in the last digest mentioned that we should stop carrying on about the current KC lineup ! Personally, I am deeply satisfied with it. However, what are we suppose to discuss on this list ? Are we limited to any specific criteria ? Do we want 50 record reviews of Thrak each week ? Hey ! at least we keep the topics KC related, isn't that the fundamental basis of this digest ? Everyone is entitled to express an opinion. Frankly, I enjoy reading about dream bands and such. Different perspectives always make for good fodder. What else do we discuss in between record releases and tours ? Being a drummer myself, some of the thoughts on Bruford were interesting. Again, personally I think he fits like a glove. Whats the big deal ? I at times skim through some of what I consider uninteresting material in this digest. Just like reading a magazine..huh ? Do we actually read every damn article ? Frankly I don't care for this Holier-than-thou attitude. As long as the digest is KC related, then whats the problem ? Glenn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:39:16 -0600 From: keeks at maroon dot tc dot umn dot edu (Tom Keekley) Subject: MISC: Progressive/THRAK Just some thoughts and observations: *I recently purchased 'The Concise KC'to here the earlier stuff that I am not familiar with (anything pre 80's) and I must say I need to let the ITCOTCK-era sink in. erg. I like Lakes voice but I couldn't help but think of sappy Moody Blues stuff with the mellotron. (No offense to MB fans here, it's just MHO). I like the 'Red' stuff. Sadly there are no tracks from LTIA and I was told that was the best of the early lot . . . *Last digest someone spoke of U2 as 'progressive'. I could not agree more. In the past three/four years, no band has explored more new territory. As much as I enjoy the recent music from so-called progressive bands, they are becoming lazy, and the fact that U2 after 15 years are STILL reinventing themselves is exciting. Those of you pondering the 'wimpiness' of '90's KC should purchase 'Zooropa' to see what happens when a band lets loose nowadays - not ALWAYS chaotic but very fresh. *I enjoyed VROOOM and am looking forward to THRAK and seeing them here in MPLS. I will be taking a friend to the show and I'm not telling who he is seeing beforehand. He bought me a ticket to the Beastie Boys, so I thought this was an appropriate show to return the favor! (For those of you who think of 'Fight for Your Right . . to PARTY' as the BBoys, their last two albums have been VERY hip and (gasp) progressive!) Thanks to all for the fascinating conversation. Looking forward to set lists so I can brush up on the appropriate songs . . or maybe I'll skip 'em, have an extra beer and let the tunes wash over me like a river . . . PS: are ther REALLY no women on this list???? Yikes! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:16:11 -0400 (EDT) From: imperial violet Subject: MISC: Women ET readers? > From: "DANIEL A. KIRKDORFFER" > I was wondering: are there *only* male KC and Fripp fans? Here's one woman.. but yeah, it's been starting to freak me out too. I don't think it's really because of the composition of the Internet. There are a lot of women here now, at least compared to five years ago when I first got an account. I think the lack of women on this list comes from something you mention below: most people that like Fripp and KC are musicians. How many women play guitar? How many women listen to guitar music? I sure don't see a lot. alt.guitar is very male dominated too. It's not something I usually notice, just because I exist in a lot of mostly male environment. But being "the girl" never felt so literal before. Now the question is: why do women have this aversion to guitar? is it the instrument or a lot of the men who play it? I don't get it. -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 12:43:09 -0400 From: sarthur at lutece dot rutgers dot edu (Stephen Arthur) Subject: INFO: Thrak/Noteworthy Noteworthy music says you can make orders for King Crimson 'Thrak' now (April 20) for the April 25th release, they are asking $12.39. Phone 1-800-648-7972. This is a public service announcement. steve a [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Crossen Subject: DISCOG: Re: Sylvian-Fripp TV Show (in ET#181) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:05:30 +0100 (BST) I know it was me who asked for a track list for the FS tv show, but I couldn't wait. I just had to go out and buy "Damage". Listening to it gave me the information I needed to complete the following track list. CUE THE MUSIC Sylvian-Fripp Screened Grampian TV Live in Japan 1993 Sunday April 16 1995 at 2.20am ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Band : David Sylvian, Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn, Pat Mastelotto, The other guitarist (sorry can't remember, but he is credited on the show). 1. God's Monkey 2. Brightness Falls 3. Every Colour You Are 4. Jean the Birdman 5. Firepower 6. Darshan (the road to graceland) [ 2nd half only ] Encores: 7. The First Day 8. Blinding Light of Heaven On closer inspection of the video, Fripp's guitar seems to have a Wilkinson-type tremelo system. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Crossen Email: dc at scms dot rgu dot ac dot uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:28:15 PST From: "grant green" Subject: REVIEW: Tony Levin's WORLD DIARY I just received my copy yesterday in the mail, and since I haven't seen any reviews yet, thought I'd throw in my HO. Subjective impression: This is a GREAT CD! I like it a lot! Objective info (track list): 1. Chasms (5:20) TL - Stick(R) Shankar - double violin, vocals 2. The Train (4:43) TL - Music Man bass with funk fingers (those sticks taped to his fingers), harmony vocals Ayub Ogada - Nyatti (8-string Kenyan lyre), vocal 3. We Stand in Sapphire Silence (5:44) TL - Stick Brian Yamakoshi - Koto Jerry Marotta - Taos drums 4. Smoke (0:49) TL - Stick Bendik - Tenor sax 5. Etude in the Key of Guildford (3:12) TL - Stick Bill Bruford - electronic drums 6. Espresso & the Bed of Nails (4:45) TL - Stick Nexus - percussion ensemble 7. Mingled Roots (3:48) TL - NS electric double bass Levon Minassian - Doudouk (the Armenian double reed you hear on Peter Gabriel's "Blood of Eden" on US) 8. Nyatiti (4:18) TL - Music Man bass w/funk fingers Ayub Ogada - Nyatti & vocal 9. Jewels (3:47) TL - Stick Bruford - electronic drums 10. La Tristesse Amoureuse de la Nuit (4:55) TL - NS electric double bass Minassian - Doudouk Manu Katche - Drums 11. Heat (6:30) TL - Stick Nexus - percussion ensemble 12. I Cry to the Dolphined Sea (5:39) TL - Stick Bendik - Tenor & soprano sax Marotta - drums 13. The Sound of Goodbye (3:15) TL - Stick Brian Yamakoshi - Koto Overall: The tone of the CD is between "World Music" (a la PG's US and Passion), with some driving pieces that verge on Crimsonesque. In general, very melodic & very rhythmic. Lots of great Stick work. The publisher (Papa Bear Records) apparently isn't set up to take credit cards, or ship outside the US yet. Maybe Stick Enterprises would like to look into distributing this gem (or at least including it in the catalog)? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:36:51 -0400 From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: INFO: ABCD catalog I suggest that anyone interested call them 4 a catalog @ 914-939-2223. I have nothing to do with them but they are knowledgable and helpful and seem to know quite a bit Update: ABCD has moved to: 17 Wall Street, Norwalk, Ct 06850. A catalog is $2.00. Telephone: (203) 831-8301. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Maclennan Subject: REVIEW: NZ press slags THRAK Date: 21 Apr 1995 11:58:47 +1300 Two of New Zealand's major daily papers have run reviews of THRAK in the last couple of days. Wellington's "Evening Post" slagged it mercilessly, giving it one star out of a possible 5. Comments like "The last 25 years might just as well not have happened for these Rip Van Winkle's of rock", "...bloated and tediously self-indulgent", "...weary old poseurs" and so on. The reviewer Karl du Fresne, the middle-aged deputy editor of the paper) did like "One Time", however. Christchurch's "The Press" was a bit kinder, but still lukewarm. Reviewer Nevin Topp prefered the quieter tracks. Here's the last part of the review: "'Dinosuar' might be a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy, its heavy tread reminiscent of Yes. "'THRAK' is decidedly patchy. Some parts are brilliant, others leave a lot to be desired. This is another chapter for Fripp, but unfortunately not a major one." Your humble narrator would beg to differ!! -- David Maclennan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mallende at Phoenix dot kent dot edu (mark allender - king of the universe) Subject: QUERY: Bears Recordings Availability Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Hey there! anybody know of any place that has either or both of The Bears cd's for sale or anything? e-mail me if you know of anything. thanx. -makotu mallende at Phoenix dot kent dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: DKIRK Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 09:33:34 -700 Subject: QUERY: Video of July '69 Hyde Park concert? Does anyone know how to get hold of a video copy of the King Crimson July 1969 Hyde Park concert that one can read about in The Young Person's Guide. As I believe this was also The Rolling Stones' first show after Brian Jones died and with Mick Taylor on guitar I'm guessing this was filmed. As happened with the 10th Annerversary Roxy Music tour filmed by the BBC that yielded the King Crimson in Frejus video -- I'm wondering if there is footage of any or all of this show. Any leads anyone? Please reply to me and I'll keep ET posted. Thanks in advance! David_Kirkdorffer at praxisint dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 00:31:26 -0400 (EDT) From: imperial violet Subject: TICKETS: Another Annoying Ticket Beg (NYC? Philly?) I can't believe I'm actually thinking of travelling to see a concert, but after whining profusely in search of 1, just one ticket, on Usenet and not getting anywhere.... thought I'd expand my options. So if anyone has one extra ticket to a KC show in either NYC or Philly, email me, and let me know how much you want for it. And since I used to live in DC.... I'll even add that to the list...... thnx. (how's that for a sad first posting?) -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:01:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Cutler Subject: TICKETS: KC NYC Tickets to Trade This is my 2nd post asking for anyone who might have 2 tickets for KC on Sunday night at Town Hall in NYC who'd be willing to trade for my 2 tickets for the Saturday show....Thanks.......Rick. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 09:17:07 -0400 From: giroux at snap dot genie dot uottawa dot ca (Eric Y. Giroux) Subject: TICKETS: An old man... Hi everyone ! This one used to get front seat tickets to Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Marillion, ... but has slowed down a bit with time... This one saw the train go 'vrooom' and could not catch it. If somebody can get me ticket(s) for either Quebec, Montreal or Toronto, It would be very much appreciated. I wouldn't like having to rely on scalpies... email me. Eric 'you must cultivate your garden' ____________________________________________________________ Eric Y. Giroux giroux at snap dot genie dot uottawa dot ca University of Ottawa Department of Civil Engineering 161 Louis Pasteur Tel. (613) 562-5800 ext. 6311 Ottawa, ON K1N 6N5 Fax (613) 562-5173 ____________________________________________________________ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]