From elephant-talk at arastar dot comFri Mar 31 09:31:30 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 23:38:14 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #176 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 176, Thursday, 30 March 1995 Today's Topics: ET article GREAT Deceiver Re: Defending my Bruford criticism Bowie and Paloozer Live Crimson Bowie, southern States shoes, Canadian tickets, Letterman. LTiA Words Re: live crimson cd (ET #173) N(ET): a cool tool for Crimheads (Re: tours etc.) ET submission BB, KC, etc. new crim-head! Re: Elephant-talk #174 Soundscapes A prog Lollapalooza Adrian Belew: Discography Re: Univers Zero Voice at end of LITA II Fripp cassette bargains! KC in Vancouver correction KC-Lollapalooza kc in dc Tony Levin interview in NFTE 129 Re: Bruford Really Bad Review of Soundscapes Gig (un)parallel universes Re:Cheerful Insanity Re: Missing voice in LTIA II remix Elephant Talk #174 Questions about old KC Defending my Marotta criticism Re: thrak review Double Trio Univers Zero, Henry Cow, Fred Frith S.F TIX FOR SALE New member junk Vancouver Date and Venue changed A quick note Guitar Craft plans on hold forever? Fripp on CompuServe Tour,Ragging,Soundscape Rig,reqest for Video's,YAHOO KC 18th May London show comfirmed Indulgent Reminisce Bootleg Solution extratickets Guitar Player magazine Tony Visconti & Gentle Giant. One more date added in San Francisco KC current output kc promo KC-Lollapalooza [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html FTP: The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et FTP: Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:22:52 GMT From: orno at mmedia dot is (Orn Orrason) Subject: ET article Dear Team Great to have a letter from Robert in the last issue. I must admit that I have heard much of what he wrote before, like the instance when he drove past the Wimbourne church and saw the formation of KC. I hope Robert will not repeat him self to much in the new music we will all hear in the coming months. We want KC to explore new unchartered territories with their masterful playing and at the same time deliver beutiful music (in the whole). Tony Levin said in a new interview (YES mailing list) that Robert never wanted to play what had been played before. But Robert I still admire you (although my friends don't understand it). And you guys in Houston. Stop complaining, KC has never come to Iceland. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Jean M. Adams" Subject: GREAT Deceiver Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 19:17:35 EST Hello all at ET, I've been reading a lot of posts that have said the Great Deceiver was good so I decided to dig out my copy and give it a listen. You see I was never much for 60's and 70's KC because I was too young at that time and when I did get introduced to Roberts work it was through his solo work and I didn't get hooked on the old stuff even when I bought them on vinyl for my collection. A year or so ago I picked up the GD on one of my shopping trips and put it away and forgot about it(Gasp!). When I went to listen to it I found that I hadn't even taken it out of the box(Gasp!Gasp!). It is undoubtably the best group of CD's I've heard. Robert's playing is phenominal and it made me wish I had been there myself and left me wanting to hear more classic KC live. How about that I've grown new ears! The claim that KC at it's height could have shredded wallpaper at (a distance I can't remember)is in my view right on. When Robert turned his guitar into a sound resembling a chainsaw/dentist drill the top of my head went numb(of course this could be a medical problem and not related to GD). If any of you have not gotten into the 70's KC I suggest that you might try some of the live stuff. Definitely not dated fresh and a very good listen. I am going to dig out more of my neglected KC discs now,oh yeah, of course I had to say something about Roberts post: first Thanks Robert! second I think I'll like THRAK because: >56'39"< --good length >songs about love< --love is good >dying< --necessary and O.K. >redemption< --The best,better than love. >and mature guys that get erections<--er, they are good too. so Thrak me already!! -still waiting to get tickets -- Jean [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: (freedom now) Organization: Oblique Strategies Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:36:27 + 700 Subject: Re: Defending my Bruford criticism ) Nadav Noah Caine writes: ) I agree with all that Bruford is a percussion genius, but keeping time ) is aslo important in much of the complex material thaat KC performs, Bruford is a 'single-stroker' when it comes to playing fills. Maybe one could argue that it's his 'style'... which is fine for Brand X, but not for Crimson (imo). Okay. Get someone in there like Phil Collins or Chester Thompson instead of Bruford or Marrotta. That would add something that has been missing in KC music since Giles left. B. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:33:53 -0700 (PDT) From: MCNICHOT at cgs dot edu Subject: Bowie and Paloozer I personally love Fripp's playing on Scary Monsters and I think that it is an example of searing Frippian riffing and growling. Also, Heroes is great stuff too! I read somewhere that an E-Bow was actually used on the tra Track,"Heroes" which is interesting because I thought Fripp had his own E-Bow sounding device. Anyway, I think Fripp is the best side-man Bowie ever got his hands on. I saw Bowie with Stevie Ray Vaughn as his guitar player and thought it was innapropriate and boring. I wish it had been Robert. When the suggestion of Crimson hooking up with Lolapalame came up I had to hold down the bile in my throat. Man, Can't anything cool happen anymo anymore without compromising itself to the marketing monsters. I don't want to put up with weak bands like Belly to hear King Crimson. Also, the idea of Palooza is anoying in the same way that Spring Break in Florida is for dorks. Also, You can mosh all you want to KC in your dorm room, but if you try that at a show where Fripp is playing he would probably ask you to leave. Just my humble opinion. "These are words with a D this time" mcnichot [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:57:05 -0500 From: KB305 at aol dot com Subject: Live Crimson Virgin America will be issuing a CD-5 of 'Dinosaur' as a single, backed with the following: VROOOM (studio version) Cloudscape (live) Elephant Talk (live) Red (live) anyone besides me salivating? I should have information about the 2-CD live set within the next 7-10 days. Of course I'll post it as soon as I get it. Also, I'll have revised tour dates courtesy of Virgin soon, I think. Kevin [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:28:41 -0500 From: James MacKenzie Crawford Subject: Bowie, southern States shoes, Canadian tickets, Letterman. Sorry Toby about the oversized subject. Lot's of things to reply to here: 1. Fripp on Bowie's Scary Monsters (reply to Peter Evans' post) I think Fripp's playing on SM is incredible. That album is my all-time fav Bowie because of it. Some of the solos are just about as demented as the one he did on Eno's Babies on Fire. (I like Lodger too, one of the Bowie albums with Belew and Visconti. And speaking of Visconti, yes, avoid Wakeman's Rhapsody in Blue.) 2. Shows in the southern US. I got a little update newsletter (with more merchandising) today from Possible Productions which says not to worry. On a future leg of the tour, KC will be playing the southern US, probably in October or November. A good place to complain to about the lack of shows might be PP, because they do read their mail and encourage fan feedback. Still a drag for some of you people though - I sympathize. Hang in there. 3. On the home front, Toronto tix went on sale March 23, and the show has been switched to Saturday May 27, 7 pm, Massey Hall. I beleive Montreal tickets are on sale too. I don't like to complain about pricing (I thought VROOOM was fair), but two tickets on the floor level for the Toronto show cost $96.60 after s/c. Not that I wouldn't pay that (or didn't!) but it really leaves makes me nervous that if the show isn't everything I can imagine and more, I might feel a little let down. Don't flame me all you poor guys and gals in Texas, all I'm saying is that it is a lot for a show which is only about a five minute walk from my apartment (ie, no airfare!). 4. Letterman. Someone mentioned that KC is going to be on David Lettermen on May 19. Is this a gag (should I chuckle), or should I go and have cable reconnected pronto? Crimso is alive! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____ ~ /\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James' World ~ \_. `\/\~/ /_ \_ "AND NOW FOR THE ICEPICK TO THE FOREHEAD Canada's _____,> _|\___> \_ ... a million laughs ..." Lotion ~,' N.S. __/ ~ \_ [Zappa, Joe's Garage] Playground |___,---' ~ james m. crawford: jmc at wolverine dot utias dot utoronto dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:37:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Jeffery S. Potter, Ritter Planetarium" Subject: LTiA Words Hello E.T.ers. This is my first post after lurking for over a year. I have one answere and one question. First, someone asked in the last issue (no, I don't know who, as my editer and I don't get along :) ) asked waht was said after the fade out on LTiA Pt 2. I have always heard: "Could I do one more immediately?" It does not appear on my Definitive Edition. Second, what is being said (sung, chanted) on Easy Money at the beginning? I cannot make any of it out, and I have tried for almost ten years now! (alas, I wasn't introduced to the King until after the last break-up. But, hey! My prayers have been answered, a reprive has been granted) Thanks for your time and bandwidth, Jeff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 22:18:38 JST From: Makoto Hyuga Subject: Re: live crimson cd (ET #173) Hi fellow ETers, Rupert Loydell writes in ET #173: >I recently bought a double live cd by KC called Avenida Corrientes.The >first cd (Buenos Aires oct 8th 1994) is certainly the new line-up, in all >its glory, and although the sound quality is a bit varied [its audience >taped] its good stuff and bodes well for the UK gig in May. But, the 2nd >cd, which is listed as tracks 1-5 december 8th [which could, of course, be >a typical botleg mistype for october], 1994 buenos aires, then filled up >with Munich 1982 tracks 6-11 causes me problems. Can anyone confirm that >these first 5 tracks are indeed the new line-up? They sound to me like the >82 line up for the whole of the cd. Are the new line up playing Matte >Kudasi, Talking Drum, Larks Tongue Pt 2, Heartbeat and Sleepless? Anyone >who knows when they actually did play Buenos Aires, tracklists etc, or who >has heard the cd and knows more than me - I'd love to know! I have the CD. I'm not sure I know anything more than Rupert, but I think these first 5 tracks on Disk-2 are played by the new double-trio. Because 1) on Sleepless there are slapping bass (maybe by Levin) and the Stick (by Gunn), 2) on Talking Drum there are three guitar like sounds and many percussion works, though can't tell who plays which line, 3) has anyone ever heard '80s crimson play Talking Drum? A counter question: Who do you think played the Stick on Elephant Talk, Levin or Gunn or both? I'm afraid I might misunderstand Rupert's question. If Fripp-Belew-Levin-Bruford quartet (double-trio without Gunn and Mastoletto) would play some ('80s) songs in concert today, do you call them '80s line-up? FYI, here's track list (I corrected mistyped track names) Avenida Corrientes (Velvet Speed VSD001-A/B) Disk 1 Disk 2 1. VROOOM 1. Matte Kudasai 2. Frame by Frame 2. Talking Drum 3. Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream 3. Larks Tongue in Aspic Part2 4. Red 4. Heart Beat 5. One Time 5. Sleepless 6. B'Boom - THRAK --- 7. Elephant Talk 6. Waiting Man 8. Indiscipline 7. Matte Kudasai 9. VROOOM VROOOM (without CODA) 8. The Sheltering Sky 9. Neil, Jack and Me 10. Indiscipline 11. Heart Beat I hope bootleg-talks don't make Mr.Fripp angry. I couldn't wait for the official bootleg, and I swear I'll buy the legitimate live CD of double-trio. Of cource I already bought THRAK and listen to it everyday, thirsting for Japan tour of crimso which is not announced yet. - -- ___ __ ___ HYUGA,Makoto / ____ / / hyuga at oaks dot cs dot fujitsu dot co dot jp X / \\ / / THRAK written with / \ / / / Japanese Katakana [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:05:25 +0200 From: j at vrooom dot pp dot fi (Jukka Kukkonen) Subject: N(ET): a cool tool for Crimheads (Re: tours etc.) Paul Martz wrote in ET/174: >Yes, it's sad KC aren't touring the southern US and Australia. But for >three consecutive digests now I have read whines, pleas, and complaints on >the size of the current tour. Certainly the majority of the people reading >this digest have no control over where KC plays! Your desires would be >much more efficiently voiced direct to KC's tour management... I agree we e-talk too much. Although the name of this list was changed from Discipline to Elephant Talk, but it doesn't necessarily have to reflect the change in our behaviour, does it?. But OTOH, When I Say Stop, Continue 8-) I respect Toby for his continuous efforts to coordinate and improve ET. I've seen lots of chaotic lists, but his organization skills give ET that rare atmosphere of future potential we should take advantage of and develope further. So I think ET should be used as a constructive vehicle. That means the focus of the list should intentionally be moved from virtual whining to real results: tours and events - a chance to experience serious (but not solemn) live music. The following example shows this is possible - but only if we, the virtual society of Crimheads, are willing to take the risk of building the bridge between while crossing it. If Mr Moraz can do this to Yes fans, imagine what Fripp could do with a bright bunch of brains like us 8-) 8-) 8-) > The following came to Notes from Patrick's manager Gary Davis: > On January 2, 1995, Notes From the Edge published a friendly little letter from > Patrick Moraz that basically said, "If you're willing to book me yourself, I'm > willing to play!" At a price of $800 many people thought the letter could only > be a hoax. However, over 100 people from 30 states and Canada took it upon > themselves to call me, Patrick's manager, and find out the truth for > themselves. The response was wonderful. In some cases Patrick will actually be > playing in people's living rooms. Others have chosen some wonderful concert > situations for Patrick including churches, college recital halls, museums, > recording studios,etc. Although we billed this as a piano solo tour, some hosts > are placing additional temptations in Patrick's way such as harpsichords, > church pipe organs, percussion instruments, etc. And here is the preliminary > itinerary for Patrick Moraz's "Coming Home, America" tour. Some concerts will > be totally open to the public. Some will be small, semi-private gatherings at > which the hosts are open to other fans joining in. And some are completely > private. I've included contacts for the public and semi-private functions. Be > aware that Patrick will not be repeating shows. Each concert will be a unique > event... (OK, that's enough, get the idea?) This virtual vehicle of ours sure is a cool tool. But our e-talk tends to focus on description of historical recordings. I'm afraid we get so obsessed munching more and more detailed information there's no time or place for constructive action. Information has a value, but it's so easy to forget the purpose for collecting it. Why not explore our future possibilities a bit and try to get the real thing happening here?. Let's put our Crimheads together and think about what do we want the (N)ET to do for us...phhhleeeeezzz, any contributions on this? I apologize for rambling on a bit by replacing my sig with a quote by Robert: "The future is in place, and waiting, but we have yet to discover it. Our present position is the bridge between...Grace - readily available, simply experienced, beyond understanding - requires no reason to enter our lives but does need a vehicle." Regards, Jukka A. Kukkonen, Finland (j at vrooom dot pp dot fi) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Don Becker Subject: ET submission Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:25:35 -0500 (EST) I suppose it's only fair that every ET reader delurk at one point. Guess it's my turn. In ET #174, the possibility of Crimso playing Lollapalooza was raised. While it'd be interesting (and would probably be the only way I'd go to one of these things), I'm not so sure that kind of massive festival is something Fripp would go for. Having never seen Crimso in concert I can only guess that Fripp is not a fan of large, unruly crowds, and would probably get frustrated that people are throwing each other around rather than listening to a blistering version of "Sartori In Tangier". On the other hand, if you really want to mosh to "Cage" or "TGD", do what I do -- put the music on at a party and find a wide-open space where nothing can be broken... :) --Don -- / Don Becker at Adelphi University db4025 at panther dot adelphi dot edu \ | "All the world's a masquerade, made up of fools and philosophers. Were | | it to rain on our charade, all washes away except our true colors." | \ --Extreme, "Stop The World" / [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:43:49 -0500 From: gregdunn at indy dot net (Greg Dunn) Subject: BB, KC, etc. I thought perhaps I should add a few sentences to the ongoing Bill Bruford - everyone else debate, in hope of solidifying my feelings on the matter. I agree strongly with Nadav's comments -- much as I love Bruford's work, I would hate to see KC fall apart from lack of teamwork. The way I see it, there are two issues here: musicians playing with other musicians, and Crimheads like us listening to the interactions between musicians. I am enthralled by the complex interactions that take place between professional musicians, even if it takes me several listenings to disentangle the aural mix. This is why I enjoy Crimson, early Yes, early Genesis, ELP, Earthworks, and many other varied types and kinds of music. Try A. Ginastera's music for a complex example of neo-classical music -- ELP based their "Toccata" on one of his pieces. On the other hand, imagine what a nightmare it must be to play along with someone who is simultaneously interacting with YOUR playing! If everyone does not have a strong sense of beat, you can develop a train wreck very quickly. "Jazz" musicians are the best known for their ability to handle this sort of thing; as we know, many "rock" musicians need a strong beat to accompany their playing (quotes because I hate to explicitly categorize -- you know approximately what I'm describing). I can sympathize with KC not wanting _everybody_ wandering off the beat while playing, but I love BB's delicate interactions with the band. What to do? Pick the best drummer you can work with, and practice, practice, practice. :) Even in Bruford's playing there is an 'anchor' to the beat which can be sensed, as long as he doesn't improvise when the band needs his steadiness the most... ******** I should mention that I found Trey Gunn's "1000 Years", the new Fripp and CGT albums, and VROOOM at numerous record stores in Bloomington IN. Being in a college town, the stores apparently are a lot more relaxed about choosing their selections (I found my first copy of VROOOM as a used import in Bloomington). Sadly, Indianapolis does not have the majority of these albums -- though it was where I finally found "The Great Deceiver". ******** In deference to Toby, I won't rave about my front row seat to the June 9 KC concert in Cincinnati :) but the show is on sale, so any Crimheads within driving distance of Cincinnati had better hurry! I didn't find out about it until it was too late to submit for #174 -- sorry. -- | Greg Dunn | "Information is not knowledge; | | GregDunn at aol dot com | knowledge is not wisdom; | | gregdunn at indy dot net | wisdom is not truth." | | Greg at gdunn dot nawc-ad-indy dot navy dot mil | -- Frank Zappa | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:00:50 +0100 (MET) From: Mats Rydstr\vm Subject: new crim-head! Hi fellow ET:ers! My name is Mats, I live in Sweden, and this is my first post to the list, (I hope I won't make too much of a fool of myself!) I'm not a long-time fan like some of you are, I'm 20 years old so I haven't been able to experience any of the line-ups when they existed, (9-10 years old and listening to Beat and Three Of A Perfect Pair, don't think so!!!) My background is mainly in hard rock so I got in contact and approached the KC-music that way, since I got my first KC-album some year ago (the Concise KC) I've gotten into all era's of the band, I even now like the 80's-KC, it was the hardest for me to get used to. I've got VROOOM and I'm now very much anticipating the release of THRAK. I got on this list because I thought I could get some help in what to go for, so what I'm wondering is this: I've heard about some quite poorly-available live-albums from the 70's (non-bootlegs) and I'm thinking about getting one of those, if I can find them here. Of the 70's-eras I like Red and the Wetton-era the most and would very much like to have a live-album from that lineup, hopefully with Starless/Red on it. Are there such an album or should I try to get a bootleg? If so what's the name of a good one? Could someone please help me with this. I've heard something about a live box-set, should I go for that instead, and is that one mega-expensive? I read a comment about a more extensive FAQ, that I would like a lot! The current FAQ-information is not to much help to the new Crimson-fan, and I suspect there's a lot of knowledge out there that could easily be put into a FAQ, I think there's a need for that. Or maybe you don't want newbies, maybe you just wan't your own exclusive-club. Some people on a.m.p certainly wan't that! Thanks for any help, or tell me if I just should check in with the web-site more throughly. (sorry for my possibly bad English! It was not my mother tongue...or my mother's tongue (very subtle Spinal Tap-ref)) /Mats ________________________________________________________________________ / Mats Rydstrom - d94-mry at nada dot kth dot se - http://www.nada.kth.se/~d94-mry / /-----------------------------------------------------------------------/ / "We can hope for the future, though there may not be one" - ACOS / /_______________________________________________________________________/ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:18:43 -0500 From: PresentDay at aol dot com Subject: Re: Elephant-talk #174 Since the posting a couple of weeks ago, there must have been some major changes or the listing was just a tentative one for the King Crimson US tour dates. Confirmed thru ticketmaster are: Ann Arbor, MI (Michigan St. Theatre) - June 10 Chicago, IL (Bismark Theatre) - June 13 [SOLD OUT] Milwaukee, WI (Riverside Theatre) - June 14 Also, anyone intrested in four main floor tix for the Milwaukee show contact me directly PresentDay at aol dot com. I would be intrested in other confirmations of tour dates. Thanx [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:37:31 -0500 From: artc at tiac dot net (Art Cohen) Subject: Soundscapes Hi All, I am leaving lurker mode temporarily with a question about the new "Soundscapes" album, which I saw recently. My apologies if this has already been discussed here: - Is there any significant difference between Soundscapes and Frippertronics (other than digital delay)? - Is the album better than, say, "Let the Power Fall"? - Is it as good as, say, "No Pussyfooting"? I'll probably buy it anyway, but I'm wondering what other ET readers think about it. Reply via e-mail or the list as you prefer. Thanks! --Art -- artc at artc dot tiac dot net finger for PGP public key if I'm logged on [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 13:25:44 EST From: John Ambrose Subject: A prog Lollapalooza In the last ET, someone mentioned that they'd like to see KC at this summer's Lollapalooza. I respect your opinion, but, personally, just about all Lollapalooza bands make me sick. However, I've been hoping for a prog Lollapalooza for years. And why not! Rush, Yes, ELP, King Crimson are all at very active points in their careers. Try to get Kansas and ELO back together. Plus, it would be a fantastic opportunity for some less commercially-successful proggers to get huge exposure: Dream Theater, Fates Warning, King's X, Ozric Tentacles. Of course, all you ETer's would probably love to see it, too. I don't have any kind of connections to make anything like this happen. But, if we all organized, maybe we could get a ProgFest '96 or something. --John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:02:06 -0500 From: BMomchilov at aol dot com Subject: Adrian Belew: Discography The rather lengthy list below represents an Adrian Belew Discography. With the growth of each_ET_issue you may not want to post this, but possibly include it in the FTP archives you have established. If you use it I will be happy to maintain it, please let me know what I may need to know/do in order to accommodate you. Thanks again, Brian K. Momchilov (pronounced: "Mom-Chill-Love") Special thanks to Umbrella Management and Hal Bernard Enterprises, Inc. for the following information. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ADRIAN BELEW: A SELECTED DISCOGRAPHY I - SOLO ARTIST Lone Rhino (1982, Island) Twang Bar King (1983, Island) Desire Caught By The Tail (1986, Island) Mr. Music Head (1989, Atlantic) Young Lions (1990, Atlantic) Desire Of The Rhino King (1991, Island compilation) Guitar Speak III (1991, IRS guitarist anthology) (one track-"Still Life With Dobro") Inner Revolution (1992, Atlantic) The Acoustic Adrian Belew (1993, Adrian Belew Presents) Here (1994, Caroline) II - w/ KING CRIMSON Discipline (1981, Warner Bros.) Beat (1982, Warner Bros.) Three Of A Perfect Pair (1984, Warner Bros.) The Compact King Crimson (1987, EG) The Essential King Crimson: Frame By Frame (1991, EG/Caroline) VROOOM (1994, Discipline) Thrak (1995, Virgin) III - SIDEMAN Frank Zappa: "Sheik Yerbouti" (1979, CBS) David Bowie: "Stage" (1978,RCA) "Lodger" (1979,RCA) Talking Heads: "Remain In Light" (1980, Sire), "The Name Of The Band Is Talking Heads (1982,Sire) Jerry Harrison: "The Red And The Black" (1981, Sire), Casual Gods "Walk On Water" (1990, Sire) Tom Tom Club: "Tom Tom Club" (1981,Sire) Herbie Hancock: "Magic Windows" (1981, CBS) David Byrne: "The Catherine Wheel" (1981,Sire) Ryuichi Sakamoto: "Left-handed Dream" (1983,CBS) Peter Wolf: "Lights Out" (1984, EMI America) Jean-Michael Jarre: "ZooLook" (1984, Polydor) Laurie Anderson: "Mister Heartbreak" (1984, Warner Bros.), "Home Of The Brave" (1986, Warner Bros.) "Bright Red" (1995, Warner Bros.) Paul Simon: "Graceland" (1986, Warner Bros.), "Rhythm Of The Saints: (1991, Warner Bros.) "Paul Simon - 1964/1993" (1993, Warner Bros.) Mike Oldfield: "Earth Moving" (1989, Virgin) (Adrian on vocals) Crash Test Dummies: "God Shuffled His Feet" (1993, Arista) Nine Inch Nails: "The Downward Spiral" (1994, Nothing/TVT c/o Interscope) IV - THE BEARS The Bears (1987, Primitive Man) Rise And Shine (1988, Primitive Man) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:28:17 -0500 From: CuneiWay at aol dot com Subject: Re: Univers Zero Andreas [atoth at is1 dot ulb dot ac dot be] writes >> They are Belgian and their name is Univers Zero. They published >> five albums from 1978 to 1991, and for the moment they seem to have >> vanished without trace. The only thing that shows they have ever existed >> are the albums, which I am almost certain you cannot find in America... The five Univers Zero albums are all available on CD from a U.S. label: Cuneiform. Incidentally, Cuneiform is the world exclusive label for these five CDs; there are NO other pressings available, so it's odd Andreas wouldn't have noticed the US address! In additon to U. Zero, there is a CD by an off-shoot band, Present, that is even more Crimson-ish (electronic piano, guitar, bass & drums), & even more in the Fracture/Red overdrive vein. Anyone wanting info can email us their snailmail address (we can't accept email _orders_). Steve F. / Cuneiform Records [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:42:06 -0500 (EST) From: Mitchell Bratton Subject: Voice at end of LITA II Riccardo Capobianchi asked about the voice at the end of Larks 2 which was apparently censored for the Definitive edition CD. After the very long fade, the voice (which I'm almost certain is Bill Bruford) asks "Can we do one more immediately?" This seems to imply that the blistering jamming head pounding fierce version of Larks 2 that they just recorded wasn't quite good enough for him, so he asks if they can do another take right away. I am appalled to be hearing about how so many of the re-released so-called "Definitive" editions are altered in content from the original albums. This Larks incident and the Islands omissions are offensive enough, but the alternate vocal takes being used on the new release of Exposure are all the more shocking. Are these just remixing accidents, or did Fripp and Arnold choose to do this intentionally? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:03:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Dolph Chaney, vox/gtr, PORT RADIUM" Subject: Fripp cassette bargains! Fellow ET'ers, If you have a location of NRM Music near you, check out their 3 For $10 cassette rack. Both Dayton, OH, locations that I found had EXPOSURE, and one had LET THE POWER FALL as well. Also, both locations had Eno's TAKING TIGER MOUNTAIN (BY STRATEGY) and BEFORE AND AFTER SCIENCE, which are deliriously highly recommended. These are not used cassettes, and EXPOSURE (the 1985 remix - what's so distasteful about it? e-mail me) includes lyrics and liner notes. Oh, and to those who've been down on Marotta: check out EXPOSURE, especially "Breathless". This is *not* a weak drummer! Also, I am fond of his work on the Gabriel albums (III, SECURITY, PLAYS LIVE, SO) and Sylvian/Fripp's THE FIRST DAY. While his musical personality is less forceful than Bruford's, he demonstrates an ability to punctuate effectively without overstating (for example, the Indigo Girls' "Galileo" would have been a far less remarkable recording with -out the interplay between Marotta and Sara Lee. The two drummers are simply different flavors; perhaps Marotta has an easier time following Fripp's demands, coming from a studio background, than Bruford does, having been a co-writer in every band he's joined. Oddly enough, I hear some Marotta influence in Pat Mastelotto's work. (No complaints -- XTC's Oranges And Lemons and KC's VROOOM more than compensate for Mr. Mister!!!) Also, any word on Cincinnati tickets? Take care. Dolph [Toby -- nice to see you on Chalkhills the other day...] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 19:36 EST From: VALERI Subject: KC in Vancouver correction Just bought the tickets to KC concert in Vancouver which is to be staged on Wed June 21 (not on 20) in The Orpheum (not in Vogue). I was late to the TicketMaster booth at 5 minutes and the first 5 raws have already been sold out! God! I want to see them live... Regards Valery [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 25 Mar 95 19:36:07 EST From: Paul Hightower <74200 dot 3131 at compuserve dot com> Subject: KC-Lollapalooza In ref. to Neal Mates' post in ET #174 about KC playing Lollapalooza... You know, the more you listen to today's modern alternative (now mainstream?) bands, the more they sound like KC, especially the mid-70s incarnation. I'm sure all of you who've heard Anekdoten would agree that they'd fit seamlessly into any Lollapalooza (except maybe for the cello!) and those guys are about as straight a 70s-KC cover band as you'll find. Didn't Kurt Cobain profess his KC influence once? And according to Eric Dixon's post Primus also have a KC influence. What better way to launch KC and a new prog movement than to drop them into the laps of unsuspecting, hapless grungers at a Lollapalooza. It makes perfect sense to me... Also, in response to Dave Lane's comment (please pardon the paraphrasing): "...No Stick from Levin, the master of the instrument?..." I know a few stick players and each, while admitting Levin is a good stick player and an awesome bassist, don't feel he's in the "master" category. I assume this is because he's seen as a bassist who plays the stick, rather than a stick player from the ground up. Or maybe stick players are just naturally snobs...? Cheers! Paul (A bass player;) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 04:41:32 -0500 From: goneal at freenet dot vcu dot edu (Gene O'Neal) Subject: kc in dc hello toby, i just got my kc tickets in Washington D.C. ...the floor seats are sold out only balcony seats available this was on the 21st the Warner Theatre holds under 1000 seats so act fast NOW -- this night king crimson wounds time [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 16:56:21 +0300 From: j at vrooom dot pp dot fi (Jukka Kukkonen) Subject: Tony Levin interview in NFTE 129 FYI, there's a new Tony Levin interview in Notes From The Edge number 129. I found lots of interesting Crimso-stuff there. Check it out: FTP cs.uwp.edu (/pub/music/lists/yes/). You can also try to get it from the Yes WWW-homepage. [[ This will be in the next ET too -- Toby ]] Tony's solo CD "World Diary" will be available mid-April via Net, distributed by a company of his own. He will inform us asap how to order it. I can't wait it - he said there's a Crimsonish piece with Bruford etc. Crimson will probably play live both old and new music using the double-trio concept: Fripp/Gunn/Mastelotto vs. Belew/Levin/Bruford. They'll play duets as well. The rehearsals for the tour start April 22. On "Thrak" they have mixed "Vrooom" so that F/G/M is on the other side and B/L/B on the other, so you can enjoy both Crimsons at the same time, or only one of the trios. What a cool concept! Maybe we could have a triple-trio in the future with Eddie Jobson/John Wetton/Jerry Marotta??? 8-) ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::Jukka:Antero:Kukkonen::j at vrooom dot pp dot fi::Helsinki:Finland::: :::"VROOOM::An:inevitable:and:remorseless:forward:movement::: :::which:carries:everything:before:it.:-Robert:Fripp;:1995::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 14:36:54 -0500 From: Keelo at aol dot com Subject: Re: Bruford Hey, this talk about Bruford is, IMHO, just getting silly. Please excuse any flaming tone here, but I don't see why Crimson fans are complaining about having arguably one of the best rock drummers in KC. Some specific silliness (again please excuse any heat in the tone): 1. "Keeping time". KEEPING TIME???? IMHO as an amatuer percussionist, Yes and KC don't need Bill Bruford to "keep time". Nor should they limit him to such. RF can get a metronome, or tap his foot, but I don't see why anyone would hire a virtuoso percussionist and ask him to "keep time". It's like saying what KC really needs is a good rhythm guitarist and bass player. Why do these guys insist on playing all those leads, soundscapes, and stick stuff anyway? I believe Bill Bruford is a virtuoso, as much so as Messrs. Fripp and Levin. If you invite him to the them, you gotta let him play. 2. Ego. I don't know if Bill Bruford has a big ego or not. I shook hands with him once after a show at the Park West and have read plenty of interviews in which he's the nicest guy you'd want to meet. On the other hand, you don't have to read many Fripp diaries or interviews to realize this guy figures if he wasn't so humble, he'd be perfect. I think Fripp resorting to the liner notes of Frame by Frame and magazine interviews to flame Bruford and other band members in public is bullshit. If a collegue publicly badmouthed me like that for all our clients to read, I wouldn't be working with him much longer. Fripp's concern about egos in his band is the pot calling the kettle black. 3. Who's at fault for breaking up the band. Come on now. Neither Bruford nor any other internal demons busted up KC in the 70's or 80's. It was the guy with no ego. Bruford was among those left for dead. Okay, there it is. Please don't freak on the heat. To many fans, BB, RF, and TL are among the best musicians in rock and roll today. We're lucky they are playing together in King Crimson. I hope they all play their hearts out on Thrak. Keelo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: pvallado at waynesworld dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Really Bad Review of Soundscapes Gig Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:48:27 -0800 (PST) Steve Esmedina of the San Diego Reader submitted one of the worst reviews I have ever read in my life. In this context when I say "bad review" I don't mean that the artist reviewed did a terrible job and so deserved a critical writeup. I'm talking about "bad review" in the sense the review itself was poorly written. Even though Mr. Esmedina and I apparently attended the same concert (Jan. 27 at The Coachhouse in San Diego) it is painfully obvious that he was not paying attention. For example he says in his review that Mr. Fripp played certain tunes that were actually performed by the California Guitar Trio and that he played solo versions of King Crimson compositions. I would write more about these and other blatant falsehoods but I don't have the article at hand at the moment. Finally, Mr. Esmedina ends the review by calling Mr. Fripp a "motherf*#ker". Apparently, Mr. Esmedina feels it is not enough to write misleading information to cover up for the fact that he must have been either too drunk or stoned to pay attention; he had to make unwarranted personal attacks as well. At any rate it is a worthy addition to Mr. Fripp's personal lexicon of musical invective. I would be more than happy to send him photocopies of this "concert review" and one reader's rebuttal. -- Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado at waynesworld dot ucsd dot edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 01:04:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: (un)parallel universes lray at ucsd dot edu (Lee Ray) writes: > In the San Diego (California) Union Tribune of March 16, 1995, music writer > George Varga has this to say about, ahem, Elton John, in the category, > Little Known Musical Fact: "In early 1969, John played piano on the > Hollies' 'He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother' and auditioned (unsuccessfully) > for the lead vocalist position in pioneering English progressive rock band > King Crimson." !! Also: didn't one of the bassists from the 1970-1972 incarnation of Crimson go on to play in Bad Company? >sound of nauseated shuddering< JP Mohan Grinnell College Grinnell Iowa mohanjp at ac dot grin dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 01:54:09 -0600 From: cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu (james hines) Subject: Re:Cheerful Insanity Last week I was at Tower Records and I found out that the G,G,&F album had been released on cd. Natch, I freaked. I went to a Best Buy the next day (it wasn't at Tower) and found it and bought it for 11.99. It contains the full album plus all of the singles & b-sides that they released for the album except one; so that makes 6 (I think) extra songs. I really like this album. It's different from Crimso, but it is good none-the-less. It's kinda 60's pop-ish jazzy stuff. It has "odd little dialogue" in between most songs; the dia. is pretty darn funny also. It doesn't sound much like KC until the last 2 songs of the actual album, but you can definitely tell that it's Fripp. I recommend it to any open-minded KC fan. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 02:00:21 -0600 From: cheevy-james at MAIL dot UTEXAS dot EDU (james hines) Subject: Re: Missing voice in LTIA II remix I"ve heard the non-definitive version of Discipline and there is and extra guitar track on Matte Kudasai. It adds a lot more to the song. Is this track on the orig. album? James Hines cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Bj|rn Lisper Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 10:34:42 +0200 Subject: Elephant Talk #174 "Erik.Matthysen" : ... >I also think that "Earthbound" deserves at least a little bit more credit >than it has been given in previous ET issues. I personally like "Peoria", >and even if the sound is awful it is an interesting document of an early KC >incarnation. Yes. And, as I've said before here, I find the version of "Sailor's Tale" here much better than the original on Islands. But of course, if you're an audiophile you'll have a tough time listening to this album. ... >VROOOM (the song) reminds me of "Red", of course, and of "Lark" parts 2 and >3, but - I hope at least in this I will be original - for a second it >definitely reminded me of the opening of Sergeant Pepper's!! I was instantly reminded of "Breathless" from "Exposure". It's about the same slow, heavy feeling, the same kind of seven-tone-scale, and very much the same guitar sound. But Breathless has a more odd meter. (With the recently criticised Jerry Marotta behind the drums, he's actually doing a great job here I think.) Actually, I think VROOOM (the record) has lots of little reminiscences from both KC "red" era and KC in the eighties. I cannot give any concrete example right away. But so often I hear something, a little guitar figure or something, that I know I've heard somewhere before. Bjorn Lisper [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 12:30:37 +0200 (EET) From: Mador-Haim Sela Subject: Questions about old KC I have some questions about KC, that I think should be in KC FAQ, and maybe they are, but since I couldn't find a KC FAQ anywhere (I've read ET FAQ - This is not a KC FAQ!). My questions are: 1. KC broke apart 3 times, each time after having about 3-4 studio albums? Why? Is it because Fripp couldn't stay too long with the same bunch of people, or where there other, different reasons, each time? 2. And a related question: KC #1's lineup seemed to be very unstable. What were the reasons each of the members left the group during that perioud. Was it the anmosphere in the group? Few groups had so many personnal changes one after the other? 3. And another question, maybe somewhat related to the previous one: Ian McDonald had grate influance on the unique style of _court_ and still affected _wake_ (He is credited on cat food, and undoubtly the title track was made in a simmiliar style to _court_ title track, although he is not credited for _wake_). Does anyone have any information about him? what did he did after leaving KC? ___________________________________________________________________ "Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?" Sela Mador-Haim. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ANDREA at eworld dot com Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 02:41:02 PST Subject: Defending my Marotta criticism Well, first of all I want to apologize everyone for having started the "silly debate" about BB & Marotta, which has (I agree) no sense, but it was NOT my intention to offend anyone, not respect other opinions or attack Nadav Noah Caine, sometimes I'm just a "basic" and stupid fan...I apologize again. I don't want BB on everything I listen to, of course, but, from my personal point of view, he is THE guy I look at most in KC. I started to follow KC in the '80, I never found their music so interesting in the '70. I was more into Gentle Giant, Yes, Van Der Graaf Generator, National Health in that period. But when I heard "Discipline" I was shocked, especially for drumming. And then Earthworks made the rest, BB is not (only) a drummer, he is a true musician, he tries to do different things with percussion and not only "keep time" ; I do not know other drummer play like him. I agree that nobody is necessary in a band (BB, for example, was not necessary in the Union-Yes where he did NOTHING apart take money), KC is not a football team where you put best players in the right position; sometimes our "supergroup mania" tends to take over on "music". So, if the good old Marotta was the choice, I would have bought VROOM or THRAK anyway. Mastellotto too, is not impressive to me, but "DAMAGE" is the best album of '94 for me, I can't stop listen to it, and love Mastellotto drumming there. So, can I declare this silly debate CLOSED ? Ciao Andrea P.S. Italy is the only country where "Andrea" is a name for males......sometime I would have been a girl, but I'm not..... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Lars Marius Garshol Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 13:15:00 +0200 Subject: Re: thrak review Damon Capehart wrote > Darnit! I just read the review of THRAK in ET173 and realized that > "Internet" - the stick duet - didn't make it on the CD! AUGH! If the CD is > less than an hour long, they could have fit up to 20 more minutes of music > on it! *Surely* Internet was not 25 minutes long.... ah, well. If there's > a single released, perhaps it'll end up as a B-side. Argh. I read somewhere (I think on the Stick WWW homepage) an interview with Tony Levin, in which he said that he was making a solo album. One that would consist mainly of duets with stick/bass players he'd met all over the world. Since then I've taken it for granted that "Internet" would appear on this album. (BTW: The title was to be "World Diary".) --Lars M. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 09:09:27 -0500 From: gabriel dot a dot radvansky dot 1 at nd dot edu (G.A. Radvansky) Subject: Double Trio Here's a thought(although completely incorrect, I'm sure): Is the double trio idea that's been developed for the new KC Fripp's way making the band reflect some sort of Three Of A Perfect Pair? Also, some people have suggested that the band play certain old tunes from the past, such as 21st Century Mentally Challenged Person, and such. It may be that the only way the band can please everybody is for them to play the Medley from the Heartbeat single. "Confusion in the Court of the Crimson King". [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 10:03:02 PST From: "Allen Huotari" Subject: Univers Zero, Henry Cow, Fred Frith For those who saw the post in ET 174 from Andras about Univers Zero and found it of interest: Wayside Music in Maryland has released ALL of Univers Zero on cd, therefore they are easily obtainable in North America (or worldwide for that matter). Since I don't want to turn this into free ad space for Wayside, anyone who is interested please feel free to contact me for their address. And to paraphrase David Maclennan, VERY good to see a few Henry Cow/Fred Frith fans out there! ajh [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 11:16:48 -0800 From: andrew at pixar dot com (Andrew Stanton) Subject: S.F TIX FOR SALE Sadly (and very painfully I might add) I am forced to sell my 3 tickets to the Crimson show at the Warfield - June 24th in S.F. The seats are Sec- BAL3, Row- G, Seats- 13,15 & 17. I'm selling them at face value - $25 each ($75 total for those of you that are arithmetically impaired). SU-U-U-U-U-E-E-E-E-E-E!!! CUM 'N GET 'EM! Dig me, but don't bury me. andrew at pixar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 15:54:54 -0600 From: keeks at maroon dot tc dot umn dot edu (Tom Keekley) Subject: New member junk Hello: Topic 1: I have been familiar with KC for many years but HAVE NEVER HEARD any of the tunes. I play guitar, so I was aware of Fripp and Belew and loved AB's work on the Heads 'Remain in Light'. Also as a fan of Gabriel and Yes knew of Bruford/Levin very well. Another of my fav's hopped on board in this latest incarnation since Pat Mastollota (sp?) played on the XTC 'Oranges and Lemons' masterpiece. I bought VROOOM to get started a few months ago. I bought 'Beat' last week. I love 'em. Looking forward to a taste of the old stuff (and THRAK!) but I'm afraid I'm opening a huge can of worms!!! :-) Any suggs?? Larks? Starless? Red? Court? Topic 2: I just read the Fripp Compuserve thing. VERY interesting - when he decided to answer the moronic questions. He has an unique (and comfy) cyber-lingo, don't you think?? "Yo, dude!" - - I bet he's on-line more than he lets on . . . but not much more. And one more thing . . . I'll be checkin' 'em out live and flying here in MPLS in June . . . yea! ****Although most of you probably want the set lists to be a surprise, since I don't know much of the catalog, I'd apprecite a few posted so I know what Ill be hearing . . thanks. (or just email me if you jotted the tunes down) See ya [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Scott, Dan" Subject: Vancouver Date and Venue changed Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 15:34:00 PST To recap what you may or may not have already heard; the venue for the KC show here in Vancouver has been changed to the Orpheum Theater and the new date is Wed. 21st of June. The Orpheum is a great place for KC to play. The Theater holds just under 2800 fans and was at one time the largest theater in Canada! The sound can be excellent if a bit of thought goes into the PA arrangement. I have seen a few bands there ( ELP, Jethro Tull, Laurie Anderson) and the sound has always been good. I am really looking forward to seeing KC again after more than a ten year ( for me ) gap. I haven't heard anything about the current tour yet but I'm ready to be blown away. Thanks for all your work in keeping the Elephant Talk Web page going, I enjoy cruising through it. Dan. Scott [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: John_Lambrou-CJL008 at email dot mot dot com Date: 28 Mar 95 09:32:10 -0600 Subject: A quick note Greetings, I've been lurking for quite a while, but having recently acquired tGD, I must get online to give another thumbs to this package - a wonderful journey. Regards, john Thumbs up to this wonderful list! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:33:52 -0800 From: RexJ at ix dot netcom dot com (Rex Jackson) Subject: Guitar Craft plans on hold forever? I am 30. I've been making plans to attend Guitar Craft since I was 20. I asked for (and recieved) some info about the Guitar Craft classes in Buenos Aries a few months before VROOOM was released. I now need to get info again now because that info is dated now. I've been going through this cycle for ten years. If a GC entry-level class is planned in Argentina anytime soon, who else (in the poor, but determined would-be musicians group) would be interested in sharing pathetically meager accomadations with my SO and I in Buenos Aries? I figure poverty and difficult living conditions are just a part of doing something I _need_ to do. How about you? -- "You know, people are always extolling "truth" and "real life" and "truth is beauty". I don't think that; I don't think that that's beauty. You can't really come face to face with reality too frequently or for too long a time because it'll wipe you out. It's too brutal; it's too terrible a thing." -Woody Allen in Rolling Stone [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 18:37:08 EST From: Alison Blazich Subject: Fripp on CompuServe There are two points I would like to address regarding Robert Fripp on the internet. You must excuse my confused train of thoughts because the tooth I had extracted today has created a need for opiates. First, why did Mr. Fripp go on Compuserve instead of a forum on the internet, which is 'free' and open to all and has already an established base of fans? Of course 'you' cannot offer the true answer but I am curious to specualtion. Second, when reading the log of the session, I seemed to notice that Mr. Fripp was quite annoyed by the peoples questions. I feel that he was being this way because he is wanting to ask people questions definitive and truly meaningful. All of the questions were entirely pointless random twitches of the mind. It seems that his viewpoint has been strongly influenced by the Fourth Way. I am curious, are there others in this group that are followers of the Fourth Way and know if Mr. Fripp still continues directly with the Work that Bennett began? Sincerely, White Lily [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:25:12 -0500 (EST) From: "Martin G. Bradburn" Subject: Tour,Ragging,Soundscape Rig,reqest for Video's,YAHOO Fellow Crims - Just got tickets for the Show @the Orpheum in Boston June 2. I believe the show at the Strand in Providence has been cancelled. The news about the Letterman apperance is great. I would still like to get a copy of the Friday's show. If anyone has a good master and would be willing to make a copy i would gladly pay a reasonable fee/post etc. Ditto for the Live in Japan, my copy is worn to shreads (through repeated gawking at Frame by Frame). The Conf. on Compuserve was a gas to read, but some of the questions (duh!). I wish people would get the message, I don't think Robert wants to be idolized! Reading his ideas spurs me on to push my connection to music as a listener and musician and rethink my past approaches. I get somewhat tired of the rag_on_this_player or that thread that has permeated the list as of late. Each musician (in KC) brings some needed skill/craftwork to the group at the time it is deemed neccesary to exist as a functioning entity. Comparisions of BB to PM in terms of their level of ability, in a critical sense, is like comparing RF's guitar playing to AB's. We have in KC, in it's various incarnations, a group of musicians who push the boundries of sound and ask the listener to follow them on a journey to places that for the open ear will provide a miriad of sensations that are rare in the commercialized world of modern music. See them. Support them. Like a comet the pass through our reality far to infrequently. Ok enough flames. I was reading the booklet in Soundscapes an it answered some questions I had about Robert's new rig. The Revox tape machines that had previously provided the record/loop/overdub capability to the Frippertronics system have been replaced by 2 Tc2290 digital delays. These are proported to be the one of the best dd's available (@2K a pop they should be) and with fully populated memory give an ammazing 32sec of delay. Among other devices Fripp is also using a Digitech Wammy Pedal which provides electronically the same effect as a wammy bar(but if you get to happy doesn,t wank your strings out). God what a amazing system in providing an almost unlimited sound pallet. I am interested in seeing Robert play some of the LTIA and older material in the standard tuning or hearing what he has to say about that. I have over the last month switched my Ovation to the standard tuning and have been trying to commit myself to a practice schedule and gleen any GC info I can. If anyone has the full set of GC articles from Guitar Player, am missing some and would like to fill the holes . Also if anyone has any other written material on GC please email me if you can . It was interesting to hear RF's annecdotes @ Laurie Anderson and thier paths crossing. She is currently touring and maybe a collaberation would be a future possibility. I think they could do some fine things together. I'm going to LA's show in Providence this weekend so I'll post a review asap. See you all at the Orpheum show on the 2nd. I AM SO PSYCHED!!!!!!!!!!!! PS: Listening to Sacred Song the other night with my four year old Lily and I say "Lily who's playing guitar on this" she looks a me with a smirky little grin and whispers "Fripp".... (My wife says it's brainwashing)... ******************************************************************************** * In Neurotica, Martin Bradburn (mbrad at nardeb dot nar dot epa dot gov) * * When our note is true, we are surprised to find that it sounds very much * * like silence, only a little louder. RF - The Road to Gracleand * ******************************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 15:58:24 BST Subject: KC 18th May London show comfirmed From: Phil dot Kime at ed dot ac dot uk I just spoke to Opium Arts and they say that tickets for the second KC show at the Royal Albert Hall in London will go on sale this week. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 29 Mar 1995 15:53:24 -0500 From: "Jonathan Block" Subject: Indulgent Reminisce (pardon me if this has been received already; I messed up the address) As a new subscriber it's very heartening to see postings from somewhat-new converts. So its not just us aging geezers who've been waiting 11 years. Actually, I'm surprised they're back and I'm still recovering from the many concerts I attended 1981-84. Some highlights: o Oct. 1981 at the Tower Theater in Philly. Back then, I never dreamed KC would reform in any shape. A short but great show with Robert playing in the shadows. o Every show at Toad's Place in New Haven, CT in 1982. You haven't lived until you've seen KC two shows a night, two days in a row at the same venue, in the front row. These shows included an instrumental "Howler," an instrumental version of "Neurotica" introduced as "Manhattan," and an untitled instrumental encore. o March 1982 in Amherst, Massachusetts. The three instrumentals from Toad's and a completely over-the-top "Red." Get the tape. o July 4, 1984 West Hartford Agora, Connecticut. Robert comes out wearing a black t-shirt with the "In the Court..." album cover on it and launches into an unaccompanied "God Save The Queen" before the rest of the band comes on stage joins in for Larks' Tongues Part 3. Well, I couldn't help but reminisce. And in the "you heard it here first" category. I see the double trio format as a prelude for a future KC with Fripp, Gunn (who'll do the singing) and a drummer that my premonition can't identify. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 29 Mar 1995 15:57:28 -0500 From: "Jonathan Block" Subject: Bootleg Solution The only way for an artist to stem bootlegs is to release more vault material. But how much needs to be released to stop bootlegs? Two years after Great Deceiver, the bootlegs documenting that period still appear (I've personally seen about 20 - most on the same label). Given RF's comment about DGM releasing its own bootlegs, I thought I would ramble a bit about two options already tested in the marketplace that may provide useful data. Two approaches exist for releasing vault material: the Grateful Dead (GD) approach and the Klaus Schulze (KS) approach. The Grateful Dead approach started as two separate fields of activity that have recently converged. The first vault releases were taken from multitrack masters (so far 8- and 16-track) and were complete concerts spread over two CDs. Later vault releases (called "Dick's Picks" after the GD tape archivist) are from 2-track masters and are not always complete concerts, and sometime contain technical anomalies (e.g., tape reel changes, dropouts). "Dick's Picks" are released through mail-order only, and plans call for releases four times a year. So far they've sold over 20,000 copies of each. The KS approach is somewhat different and constitutes more of a subscription-based process. So far there have been two releases (Nov. 1993 and March 1995) of 10 CD sets containing live and studio material. Both sets were offered five months in advance through various mailings, on-line queries and low-level advertising. The sets were limited to pressings of 2,000 each. Basically, if someone pre-ordered, they got a small (about 15 percent) price break and their set was numbered and signed. What happened was Schulze received enough money in advance to press the thing, thereby negating any arguable economies of scale in producing such releases. Now I'm not suggesting that Crimson's vaults be plundered for various 10 CD sets, but this subscription process could work on a smaller scale; say, a couple of two-CD sets a year covering different live periods. And we're not talking about any fancy packaging or box sets either. I'm sure any implementation of either of the above examples would work. Crimson fans are ready with their credit cards and product could be produced with little outlay from DGM. It is possible to operate in the marketplace utilizing different rules than marketplace dictates. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Greg Maguire" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:02:13 -0800 Subject: extratickets Hey Kids, I got four KC tickets for Sat night in SF for sale. I got new front row balcony seats for sunday night (my wifes birthday) Yeagh!!!!:-) and will be going to that gig instead. They are for face value no scalps here. Please contact me off-line for more info. Hope I'm helping someone. If I don't sell them I guess we'll just have to go twice. :-o Hey, I don't know how far this will get but Robert or Tony, Tony I know you might see this, but could you PLEASE, PLEASE pretty PLEASE say a big # # # ###### ###### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ####### # # ###### ###### # # # ####### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ###### ### ###### ####### # # ###### # # # ### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ### ###### # ###### # ####### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ####### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ### ###### ### # # # # # ###### # # # ### to my beautiful wife, Louise from Ireland at the sunday show at the Warfield in San Francisco. I know she would be just THRILLED to bits. Hey maybe a King Crimson Barber Shop Quartet of "Happy Birthday Dear Louise" that would be cool ;-) -- Greg Maguire (Colossal) Pictures 15th Street San Francisco California 94107 Email greg at colossal dot com Vox (415) 252-6549 FAX (415) 864-1349 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 29 Mar 95 20:27:04 EST From: "Neil J. Cavanagh" <76111 dot 3636 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Guitar Player magazine A brief review of THRAK appeared in the May issue of Guitar Player. I hope posting it does not violate any ET copyright policies; if it does, feel free to disregard it. *King Crimson,THRAK,Virgin: After 14 years,Crimson's full-length return is more subdued than you might expect. While the explosive thump of 'Thrak' recalls classic KC caterwaul like 'Neurotica,' the accent is on graceful songs. Belew's soaring voice often dips to a Lennon-like resonance, while Fripp applies ambient sonics and brash twang to Bill Bruford's idiosyncratic syncopations. Levin's bass lines work magically with Trey Gunn's stick, and though the guitars are often understated, they're always deliberate and meaningful. -James Rotundi [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:38:09 +1000 (EST) From: Dan Lange-Kornbak Subject: Tony Visconti & Gentle Giant. Tony Visconti also produced the first two releases from one of the alltime great prog bands, Gentle Giant, back in the earliest 70's. Now wondering if there is any (other) connection between KC and GG ? -Dan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 21:33:49 -0800 From: neufeldk at noc dot usfca dot edu (Kenley Neufeld) Subject: One more date added in San Francisco "King Crimson" at The Warfield, San Francisco, California JUST ADDED: Monday, June 26 (in addition to the 24th & 25th) Kenley Neufeld mailto:neufeldk at usfca dot edu http://www.usfca.edu/usf/neufeld/kenley.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:25:46 +1000 From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) Subject: KC current output the transcript of the 'discussion' with RF demonstrated one thing (at least) evident also from the fripp post to us - that fripp has seriously embraced the idea of official bootlegs, and that he is determined to 'document' his current musical incarnation. we have 1999, the liveinargentina double album and the three volume californian material, plus the fripp quintet and the planned league cd and damage: all live material which will undercut the bootleggers. similarly vrooom can be seen to beat bootleggers (who were probably after the tapes) and also document the development of the group - which will also be followed through with the live and new studio albums. it all looks like it will be an interesting year for us all. and my heart bleeds for texans who may have to drive somewhere to see kc 8-( jeremy nosig [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:48:10 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tamas Vilagi Subject: kc promo Hi ETers! I was surprised last summer by the legacy of KC in Eastern Europe. I was on vacation in Hungary, (THE BRIDGE BETWEEN eastern and western Europe), and thought I check out one of the local record shops in Miskolc, Northern Hungary. Boy, was I surprised! Not only did they have a whole lot of interesting records in the shop, but almost each and every recording by Crimson. And even that's not enough. The shopkeeper asked me if I was interested in a KC promo Cd. Naturally I was, and bought the "Abbreviated King Crimson - Heartbeat" (Carol 1467-2) at a reasonable price. Does anyone know if this is a "collectors item", is it rare? The owner of the shop had, as it turned out to be later, FbF,tGD, Lizard + Island at home, all japanese versions. It's nice to see that the KC-cult rules, regardless of political and national borders. Onto another subject. I noticed questions about Adrian Belew's solo albums in a previous ET-mail. "Which is good?, How many are they?" etc.... Well, in my opinion, (almost) all of them are good, but some of them are also very INTERESTING, especially the older ones. Therefore, I would suggest for all of you, who don't know very much of the man's solo records, to make acquiantance with them in a chronological order, to get the full & appropriate picture. The early albums are hard to find,(at least here in Finland), I don't know if the first two even exist on CD. However, "Desire of The Rhino King" is a collection containing remastered material of his first three solo albums, and it is a most recommendable choice to buy, with superior sound quality. The most of you probably know this, but if some of you dont, here are the existing albums: Lone Rhino (1981) Island Twang Bar King (1983) Island Desire Caught by the Tail (1986) Island Mr.Music Head (1989) Atlantic Young Lions (1990) Atlantic Desire of the Rhino King (1991) Island Inner Revolution (1992) Atlantic Here (1994) Caroline The Acoustic Adrian Belew (1995) DGM If anyone knows any additional solo albums of Adrian, please let me know! PS. I've been looking for a book about Adrian Belew for some time, leading me nowhere. Is there one written at all? If anyone of you know something about this, please contact. PS II. Oh yeah, one more thing. I'm going to KC gig in Dusseldorf, Germany May the 7th, and gonna be spending a couple of days in the area. If anyone of you German ETers know any interesting record shops in D-dorf or Koeln, please contact me. I definetly shut up now! Tamas Vilagi University of Helsinki, Finland vilagi at cc dot helsinki dot fi [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 25 Mar 95 19:36:07 EST From: Paul Hightower <74200 dot 3131 at compuserve dot com> Subject: KC-Lollapalooza In ref. to Neal Mates' post in ET #174 about KC playing Lollapalooza... You know, the more you listen to today's modern alternative (now mainstream?) bands, the more they sound like KC, especially the mid-70s incarnation. I'm sure all of you who've heard Anekdoten would agree that they'd fit seamlessly into any Lollapalooza (except maybe for the cello!) and those guys are about as straight a 70s-KC cover band as you'll find. Didn't Kurt Cobain profess his KC influence once? And according to Eric Dixon's post Primus also have a KC influence. What better way to launch KC and a new prog movement than to drop them into the laps of unsuspecting, hapless grungers at a Lollapalooza. It makes perfect sense to me... Also, in response to Dave Lane's comment (please pardon the paraphrasing): "...No Stick from Levin, the master of the instrument?..." I know a few stick players and each, while admitting Levin is a good stick player and an awesome bassist, don't feel he's in the "master" category. I assume this is because he's seen as a bassist who plays the stick, rather than a stick player from the ground up. Or maybe stick players are just naturally snobs...? Cheers! Paul (A bass player;) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]