From elephant-talk at arastar dot comMon Jan 23 09:21:05 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 21:36:26 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #165 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 165, Friday, 20 January 1995 Today's Topics: Sara Lee Damage CD Vrooom Review Why not Holdsworth? Tour dates in Germany Johnny Toobad [John Elichaoff] Bad review of critic FSOL Re: Robert Fripp date in San Francisco/Any in Texas? Re: Fripp at Madame Wong's Sara Lee Fripp & bootlegs Re: Elephant Talk #164 Videos? Sleepless FNM (no Crimson) bobby's diary for Elephant talk: Wetton or Levin? contribution Ist Post Elephant Talk #164 Islands: what's the story? (COPY) Fripp going techno.. RF at Tower Records Hollywood Sara Lee concert KC Den Haag, Netherlands, May 15 Earthbound San Diego Fripp ticket for sale Code to translate tab to Fripp tuning [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:03:13 -0700 From: David Ewing Subject: Sara Lee Peter Stoller writes: > I thought Sara was in GoF *after* LoG. Peter is right about this. I saw the Gang of Four with Sara Lee in the fall of 1982 in San Diego (a relatively obscure band called REM opened for them!) which was well after the demise of the League of Gentlemen. It was a great show. It was amazing to see this tiny woman wearing a suit and spiked heels producing these thunderous bass lines. *************************************************************************** David A. Ewing Avalanche Development Company david at avalanche dot com Boulder, Colorado *************************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 14:41:13 -0500 From: sarthur at lutece dot rutgers dot edu (Stephen Arthur) Subject: Damage CD my cheap buddies from NOTEWORTHY MUSIC have said that the manufacturer (virgin?) of the SYLVIAN/FRIPP DISK are gone. was this a limited edition? if so i will buy mine in a hurry from some other source and recommend you find your own too. steve [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 17:05:35 EST From: astarling at octrf dot on dot ca Subject: Vrooom Review I'm enjoying my copy of 'Vrooom'. However, I'm listening to 'Damage' on a daily basis. The title song is beautiful, and Fripp is in top form - some solos are scorchers, but he also knows when to lay down some mellow Frippertronics when the mood calls for it. I still can't believe that I got 'Damage' 24K gold with the great packaging for a mere $18.99 Canadian. When you consider that $1 Cdn = $0.71 USA that's pretty cheap. It seems that Virgin Canada ordered a pile of copies, and HMV on Yonge Street has the cheapest price. If you don't have 'Damage' you must purchase it immediately! good luck steve again... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:24:22 +0600 From: mps at geode dot geodesic dot com (Michael Spertus) Subject: Why not Holdsworth? I was listening to my Allan Holdsworth disks recently and thinking how well he would play with Robert Fripp or KC. He certainly has the creativity and chops required, and KC would eliminate his solo career predilection for insipid compositions. He's also played very well with many of the current and former KC'ers. With his unique talents, the new KC would be more than just an updating of earlier Crimsons, and would again blaze new grounds like they did when the brought in Belew the first time. My question is: Does anyone have any idea why RF has never played with AH? The combined originality and technique would be awesome. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 08:45:32 +0100 From: da015 at rs1 dot rrz dot uni-koeln dot de \| \| (Christian G\|ttge) Subject: Tour dates in Germany Hi everyone, in German Rolling Stones Magazine (Januar 1995), I found the dates for the King Crimson Concerts in Germany. Here they are: 7.5. Duesseldorf 8.5. Berlin 10.5. Muenchen 11.5. Stuttgart The orginasator is Mama Concerts & Rau and it is possible to order tickets via phone by the number 069 / 944 36 60 (in Germany) All the best Christian Guettge [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: John S Mason Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 13:20:48 GMT Subject: Johnny Toobad [John Elichaoff] I recently came across an article in an old Sunday newspaper supplement, which basically was about people who had briefly been involved in the music industry, and then gone on to make their fortunes in other fields. One of the people featured was the L.o.G. drummer Johnny Toobad [John Elichaoff]. I thought the piece might be of some interest to ET readers. NAME - Johnny Elichaoff BAND - Robert Fripps League Of Gentleman MOMENT OF GLORY - Supporting U2 TODAY - Financial Advisor Look closely at the state of the art octophonic stereo fitted in Johnny Elichaoff's Cherokee Jeep, it's the only clue to his previous career. At 34 he's at the very top of the charts in life insurance and inheritance tax , a high flier with an extensive portfolio of society clients. Back in the early 1980's, however, Elichaoff toured the world with U2 and Siouxsie Sioux, as the muppet style drummer alongside "madcap" guitarist Robert Fripp. "My first band was Stark Naked and the Car Thieves" explains North Londoner Johnny, turning off one of his two portable phones. " We were the most famous punks at King Alfred School , Hampstead". The band split but our man bounced back in the guise of " Johnny Toobad" in a power quintet called Rameses. " We sounded like a cross between Yes and Ken Dodd". When his first serious band "Baby and the Blackspots" attracted a phone call from the legendary Fripp, Johnny thought it was a joke and hung up. After all, the band had never earned more than stlg20 a gig. But within weeks he was drumming in Fripp's League Of Gentleman, getting set for an appearance on their album of the same name, and earning ten times that amount every night. The high point of his career came at the Queens Hall in Leeds with U2, as the support band, and a 30,000 watt sound system. On the American leg of that tour Rolling Stone magazine hailed Toobad's drumming as "innovative, simple and imaginatively basic". But Johnny can admit the sad truth. "Fripp had confiscated my tom-toms for playing badly", he says. His musical career was interrupted by a two year spell in the Israeli army and a stint with stockbrokers Bailey Shatkin. But then he moved into rock management, guiding Breath to two US hits in 1988 and later being involved with Tears For Fears and Fairground Attraction. He still misses the fans. "Once we were playing in Germany and my drumstick broke off, flew into the audience and speared a man in the forehead. Afterwards he was brought backstage. I was about to apologise, but the interpreter told me "He wants to know if he can keep the stick".>> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 12:32:21 -0600 From: Glenn Astarita Subject: Bad review of critic Hi, In the latest digest I recall a review of Vroom which was posted from a Toronto paper. Thus, a few comments from the peanut gallery..There have been some interesting perceptions of Vroom from the folks of this list. I, myself enjoy it and don't feel the $14.99 price is justifiable, but I'm a fan. I believe Fripp intended this "calling card" to be aimed specifically at us from the onset. Maybe the price of the cd enables him to break even financially. Who knows. Anyway, the critic who trashed Vroom, expressed his disdain/prejudice for Mr Fripp from the beginning of his marvelous display of journalism. I myself am no critic, only a fan. Basically this review represents to me the worst instance of trashy critical journalism. Tell us about the music...This critic sounded like one of those trashy Hollywood reporters wishing he was a trashy Hollywood reporter. This style of journalism gives critics a bad rep. The only mention of anything musical was an excerpt of lyrics, for better or worse is the least significant aspect of the recording. Are we really concentrating on the lyrics in Vroom ? No mention of composition, texture, interplay....Everyone has there opinion but there was no substance whatsoever in his writings. I think the review itself was an extremely bad one..Too me he is saying " Don't buy this cd because there are two lines of silly lyrics". Letting off some steam......Glenn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 16:48:52 EST From: astarling at octrf dot on dot ca Subject: FSOL Hello, On the Future Sound of London's latest disc 'ISDN' there is a note which says "% Guitar textures sourced from Robert Fripp live with FSOL Radio 1 FM 14/5/94". However, next to the song tracks I can't see the '%' symbol. Just the other various symbols which indicate recording information. So is Fripp sampled on the disc or not? Great disc, and inventive velcro packaging. All the best, Andrew. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Charles Corley Date: 13 Jan 95 16:30:13 ES Subject: Re: Robert Fripp date in San Francisco/Any in Texas? In ET #164 Kenley Neufeld wrote that Robert Fripp would be playing a date in San Francisco on Wednesday, February 1. Since I've subscribed to ET and read back issues, I've seen numerous references to Fripp playing shows in SF and the Bay Area. Does he only play there? Does anyone know of any shows scheduled in Texas? Austin would be great (I'm a UT student) but even Dallas or Houston or San Antonio would be a Godsend. Can anyone help with this? Please post them or mail them to me if you know of any dates in Texas. Thanx. Charles. =O) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: lsprague at crater dot ma02 dot bull dot com (Lindley Sprague) Subject: Re: Fripp at Madame Wong's Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 19:56:54 EST > From: David Ewing > Subject: Fripp at Madame Wong's (1979) > I was at this show! It was at Madame Wong's in L.A.'s Chinatown sometime > in 1979. After hanging out in line for several hours, we noticed that some > people were walking in ahead of us prior to the opening of the doors. We > then found out that the situation was exactly as Fripp describes above. I was there, too! As I remember it, there were two shows - we didn't get into the first show, even though we got there very early, so we waited all day in line. There was no place nearby to eat, and we were promised that there would be food inside, so we just waited hungry. However, when we got inside, there was no more food to be had, either they ran out, or they just closed down the kitchen. The bar was open, though, so we foolishly had a few drinks, and on our empty stomachs, of course we got rather drunk - not the best condition to be in for an evening of pure Frippertonics. I'm afraid the show itself is mostly a haze. Later, after the show was over, and most of the audience was gone, we were sitting at a table, and who should wander out, but Mr. Fripp himself! We tried to interest him in sitting down and having a beer with us, but he politely declined, but asked if any of us could give him and his Les Paul a ride back to his hotel! We ended giving him a ride in a VW beetle. Truth is stranger than art. PS. I think it was the performance at Tower Records on Sunset, not at Madame Wong's that showed up on record (was it Let The Power Fall?) -- ...Lin Sprague... lsprague at crater dot ma02 dot bull dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 00:34:04 -0500 From: Tony Levin Subject: Sara Lee Funny, tonight I had a rare night out, went to our local club, The Bear, and sat chatting w. my friend Sara Lee. Came home, hopped online, and saw numerous letters asking what she's up to. Small world indeed. Sara has been touring (and recording) with the Indigo Girls - the last leg having ended for Christmas. (Jerry Marotta is playing drums w. them. ) They played in Bath, England while Crimson was recording near there, and some of us caught the show. I'm not sure what's next for Sara, but I'm sure she'll continue to be heard w. the Indigo Girls for a while. bye, t.l. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 14 Jan 95 11:33:39 GMT From: Rupert Loydell Subject: Fripp & bootlegs So Fripp opposes bootlegging now? Strange, because when he did (one of?) his Frippertronic events at London's megastore way back when, he gave out an address for King Crimson bootlegs. "I think you'll find everything worth finding is available from here" he said (or something like it) in response to a question re. live tapes in the question/answer session at the end of the event. I also remember finding a League Of Gentlemen boot in Portobello Market around the same time, with Robin Hood listed as the guitarist, and the whole thing produced by Robin Hood, and on Hood records Still, we all change our minds; and maybe it's different these days. But it has always seemed ridiculous that those who get upset about 'loss of royalties' (etc) don't simply copy their own tapes - stadium bands could probably fast copy enought to sell several thousand tapes to the next night's crowd! Making enough money to not worry about the run on of copied copies and, as has been consistently argued, not effecting sales of studio/official releases one jot; as its the fans who buy live stuff! Oh, anyone got a UK release date for 1999 yet? And am I allowed to say that the last issue (#36) of my magazine, Stride, includes Robert's essay (? or aphorisms) 'The Road To Graceland' 3.95 from 11 Sylvan Rd, exeter, devon EX4 6ew -also includes a Greil Marcus interview, piece on SAF books, and a massive reviews section, etc etc). Robert sent the piece in as a result of two pieces in the previous issue: one a humourous piece 'the death of art-rock?', the other an extended review/polemic on the live box-set. He even spoke to me briefly on the phone about it all when I phoned Discipline! Rupert Loydell [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 09:37:30 +0100 From: Bjorn dot Lisper at lip dot ens-lyon dot fr (Bjorn Lisper) Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #164 mike balistreri: >_Earthbound_ >Back in the early seventies I could swear I saw a King Crimson album >called "Earthbound" that apparently had the first electronic drum solo. >I didn't have enough money to buy it when I first saw it and >unfortunately have never seen it or heard it referred to since. Does >anyone have any info about this recording? Time to surface again and write a few lines about "Earthbound". Yes, it exists and consists of live recordings from -72 if I remember correctly (I'm in France right now and my copy is back in Stockholm). It's recorded on a cassette player (!) so the sound is, well, bootleg-like, but some of the music is really interesting in my opinion. The second side has a long, seemingly improvised track "Groon" that has a very noisy drum solo with electronic effects. It ends with a number of tormented notes from Fripp's guitar, pointing right into the Larks'/Starless era... (I found my copy in a second-hand record shop sometimes back in the seventies. It was in a "cheap bin" for SEK 10 (approx. USD 1.50), apparently since it was very dusty and the cover was slightly torn. I bought it only because it was so cheap. Little did I know it would becoma a rarity.) Bjorn Lisper [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 12:44:35 -0800 From: David Bayer Subject: Videos? I was wondering if Mr. Fripp has any plans of releasing videos in the coming year in the U.S. What I had in mind were 1) Re-releasing Frejus 2) Sylvin/Fripp Live 3) Other archive King Crimson material 4) Careful with That Axe Yours, Dave snuffy at well dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 13:46:35 +0500 Subject: Sleepless Well, my MTV-post received some curious responses. I have never seen the "Sleepless" video, but I have a copy of a video for "Heartbeat." It is a truly stupid thing, but probably of interest to collectors. Peace Terry [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 20:47:45 -0500 (EST) From: Brandon K Snavely Subject: FNM (no Crimson) Sorry for the no Crimson content. A friend of mine just started a Faith No More/Mr. Bungle mailing list. For more information, contact Hal at hrtst3+ at pitt dot edu. In case you haven't heard of Faith No More, their music is unique and on the cutting edge, and many KC fans would probably enjoy it. Thanks, Freeze [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jean Adams Subject: bobby's diary Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 0:50:44 EST Dear ET, I have the article I mentioned in last weeks digest but there are a few things I have to say. I thought the entries were from the 70's but they are from the 80's with flashbacks to the 70's. I didn't mean to mislead, it's just my memory is crap. I also saw that this is part 3. I thought I had part 2 but I was wrong.(see above excuse) If any of you ever run across pts. 1 or 2 please let me know cause I would love to read them. Last confession is that I cannot post the whole article at once cause it's too damn long. I always hate that ...to be continued.... stuff but it can't be helped. I hope the article is interesting enough for you to wait for the rest. Well, here goes..... Article from January 1982 issue of MUSICIAN magazine. The Diary of King Crimson (partIII) by Robert Fripp. April 18th, 1981;World HQ, Wimbourne. Today is my sister's birthday - hello Wonderful sister! Last night Bill Bruford and Paddy came around after their dinner at the Hidden House Restaurant, and we had a frank discussion covering all the areas which have been worring me. Bill used a classic Crimson line once used on a duff U.S. audience: "We respond to encouragement." He wants to know the good as well as the bad. Both of us are happy to play music we don't particularly like if we feel it's good. Bill reckons on the next two or three years giving him enough ideas to work on for the following five or six. There's a wonderful story of Tony at the Horton Inn. The inn is five miles from Wimborne on the road to Cranborne, and a half mile from Horton Village. That is, it's kinda in the country, and small events can take on a relatively large significance. Adrian was at breakfast, reading a book, and Tony joined him. Said Tony of his morning's adventures: "Walked to Horton. A dog barked at me." Adrian continued reading. Three pages later Tony finished the story: "Walked back again." It was only a few pages later that the full impact dawned on Adrian, and the story has been adopted as capturing the essence of band life at the Horton Inn. The systematics of music life continue to interest me. Stafford Beer's THE BRAIN OF THE FIRM is helping me to understand the theoretical position of strategies which I adopt instinctively, and later rationalise. A good example is where the "boss" collaborates. For me the boss is simply adopting a role to enable a process to take place, and without any implications that the person is special or better in some way. Beer gives the example of a boss collaborating with three subordinates: where each has an average possibility of being right 82.5% of the time, working together the total chance of error is 0.0033. As long as this management group collaborates it will hardly ever make a mistake. The psychological point is impartiality: personal freedom from like and dislike, ambition, and so on. I've found that if everyone gets an equal share of earnings, collaboration increases. HQ;20:00. Very good rehearsals after a soggy beginning. AB is decidedly blue but perked into life later. He's already missing his family badly. BB intergrated the Simmons electric kit into his regular kit, and tried two tunings on the pre-sets for metallophone parts. Today we changed gear. Easter Sunday, April 19th, 1981; World HQ. Sitting here I'm hearing an interesting contrast between the Minster bells in D major on my immediate left, and the Salvation Army brass band in all manner of flat keys on my right. Each confession is celebrating Easter musically and with vigour. My ecumenical position at HQ can be a harrowing experience, particularly on a Tuesday evening when bell-ringing practice coincides with brass band practice. Easter Monday, April 20,1981;HQ; 9:15. El Paddola called last night and is over the top with excitement after hearing a rough cassette from rehearsals. Our first convert. HQ;14:05 Padulamus Est has just visited to discuss strategies. Basically, he is super-enthused about the music. Strategic Merchandising will handle the merchandising for shows, with our own quality control and pricing. The overall approach is to humanise what is usually a de-humanising activity: it's very important not to try and squeeze the last buck out of this team. Nineteen eighty-three will be the year for this band. The Americans don't like the name Discipline. For my part I'm happy for it to be King Crimson, because that's what the band is. It would help in the short term but I'm not thinking short term. Paddy is now inclined towards it but not in a hurry to decide. And Bill is having difficulty relating to being a sideman: this is something he hasn't done before. But he's learning from the Americans, who are used to working within determined parameters. His new style is emerging and he trusts enough to go with it. April 21st,1981;Chez Parents; 18:15. Today's rehearsals were the first of the third stage, very slow, twitchy, and failed to lock in. BB has spent his Easter time off digging. TL visited Peter Gabriel in Bath, and AB spent the time on lyrics but, although today was the promised day for the vocal debut, they weren't ready. Tony told a great Gabriel story. They begin working together on the next Gabriel album when this venture closes. As usual, Peter has no words and no tunes, but he did have seven percussion tracks recorded for Tony to dub bass. Peter went out of the studio for a moment and returned just as Tony began to overdub, but Tony didn't know about the faulty button which caused all the safety switches to misfunction. So clearing three safe tracks for bass cleared everything else with it. Now Peter has nothing at all towards the fourth Peter Gabriel album. Tony was laughing so hard it softened the blow. Peter has an isolation tank he'll have to spend more time in, floating about and coming up with ideas. HQ; 23:15 The success of the day's rehearsals determines my personal state until the next rehearsal. This kind of involvement is a permanent strain and bad for me. April 22nd, 1981; HQ; 20:00. Today was the real begining of stage three. We drew up a running order and played a complete set: 65 minutes. Quite a presentable effort. BB has earned my respect for abandoning so many of his ideas on arrangement, tunes and even drumming. TL wants the rhythm section to come up with their own repertoire and vocabulary so the pieces aren't all based on guitar lines. My concern is for new material to be part of our new style which is emerging, and this is the first time in any group where i've explicitly taken this directing role from the begining. Adrian didn't sing today. We're taking Friday off from full rehearsals so the rhythm section can concentrate on their own ideas. Adrian can button up the vocals. But the slow beginnings of the days: ouch. Tony and Adrian compared notes on the different styles of their Tai-Chi classes. TL learned his from a little Chinese man in a tiny room of a hotel on Broadway at 92nd. News from Gabriel: Peter's album isn't being released until January (possibly as a result of Tony's recording activities?) so we have a good chance of time from Tony for touring the U.S. and Japan with an album this autumn. Thursday, April 23, 1981; Chez Parents; 18:15. Today I hurt. A telephone call from New York. My personal life has gone wrong. A lot of my life is spent on the hop, moving from one place to another. The main route is between Wimborne and New York. It was while staying in New York that I began to grow up, and the different parts of me fall into place. And I made a small number of really solid friends. English girls and I have never really had much interest in each other, but across the Atlantic is a different bag of bananas. New York has more women than men, so the odds are favourable for males of a predatory inclination. Of the men that are available few are early thirties, single and vigorous. Turning 33, my approach to the chase changed: it lost its desperate edge. Throughout my late teens and for all my twenties the Fripp brain was in my dick. Early sex in Wimborne was nervously conducted against a background fear of pregnancy, paternal disapproval and possible small town disgrace. Moving to London in 1967 at 21 liberated me externally. I had a room to myself and girls could stay overnight - in a bed: no more grappling about on the front seat of a car, at least, not through necessity. But I remained a shy and introspective young man, short on social graces and approaches; an earnest and shabbily dressed countryman. One girlfriend, who visited me in the apartment Greg Lake and I shared, told me I looked better with my clothes off. She may not have been referring to the qualities of my body. I'll continue this story later. ----(I stopped transcribing here because the next day is very long-til next week-Jean) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 17:50:00 -0800 From: "j.p.lewis" Subject: for Elephant talk astarling at octrf dot on dot ca: > I'm enjoying my copy of 'Vrooom'. However, I'm listening to 'Damage' on a > daily basis. The title song is beautiful, and Fripp is in top form - some .. > the cheapest price. If you don't have 'Damage' you must purchase it > immediately! I second this opinion. I'm not much of a Sylvian fan; don't like his voice that much. I bought Damage not expecting too much... well it's not a KC album, but I think it has the most intense Fripp playing of recent years. Listen to track 10 (Darshan). R.e. the cost of Vroom -- I do actually think that Fripp is trying to make some money. I'm under the impression that someone like Fripp never made really large amounts of money even when KC was at its most popular...possibly enough to coast for a few years, but those years are probably up. I think that is part of the motivation behind the box sets, etc. Bit of evidence -- I knew someone who was subletting Fred Frith's apartment in NYC. FF is a bit more obscure than RF, but nevertheless is a quite well known and influential musician. His living conditions surprised me slightly, as did the fact that (so it was said) he supported himself primarily by classes; his records did not bring any significant income. Whatever the motivation, I hope that the once rumored live set from the 80s KC appears sometime. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 22:03:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: Wetton or Levin? The other night on a decent radio station I heard "Breathless" (from _Exxposure_). Afterwards the DJ announced the song and said it featured John Wetton, which I thought was an odd thing because unless I am mistaken, Tony Levin plays the bass parts on _Exposure_. Fripp credits Wetton as one of the many who helped but do not appear on the album. I just thought it was odd, especially since a radio station would actually _play_ "Breathless" at all. JP Mohan Grinnell College, Grinnell Iowa [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 02:38:27 -0700 (PDT) From: MCNICHOT at CGS dot EDU Subject: contribution First you must all give my spelling credence as my cat is rtring to be freindly and is nocking my mits around. All right, now, Fripp is not playing at the Coach House in SJC on Jan 22nd. As last I heard he will be at Tower records on Sunset in Hollywood on that day but I do not know what time. He will be at the Coach House on Jan. 28th which I believe without getting up and taking the chance that the cat will try and type a secret message that will leave me questioning and somehow unfulfilled the rest of my life, is a Sarturday. Alo Also, I hope I was hallucinating when I read that comparison of KC and Nirvana in issue 163. That gave me the creeps. In response to J. Levin and Anekdoten, I too saw them inLA and was very impressed. Thye had a trumpet player that really added a lot to their sound on one number that was very reminessent(sp?)of Fallen Angel.You should check out their album. Speaking of which, Earthbound is a live album from the &72(i think) incarnation. Most folks are snoby about the sound quality or other triviata but I think it rips.You can finfd it used at better record shops. It's not on CD(here in America). I am really getting off on those old KC concert stories.That is really cool to hear it from the folks that were there.I also thought nt that t interview transcription was a real treat. Bravo on the contrib.Cat farts are unpleasant.Now, I think that part of the reason some people are upset about the new album not being ground breaking or exploring a totally new frontier(has nothing to do with the Trek!) has to do with personell. With the changes in the other two lineups, there were drastic personell changes which invited drastic changes in musical approach. With this incarnation it is basically the reformation of a past group, and not a totally new one. Agreed Fripp has been consistant throughout, but I still here many similarities between his present style and that of the stuff on G,G&F. My point being that the tchanges in the past have not been a direct result of Fripp deciding where the band should come from or go, but a group decision based on where the players have been and where they are going. The present incarnation hosts a majority of people who have been "there" and still reflect the knowledge that the earlier gathering presented to them. Thus, it is natural that with this gathering that the similarities would be numerous.Please read the previous argument again as I have found that it took me two times to figure it out.Gave Vrooom to my cousin the philosophy proffesor for X-mas. Havent talked to him since but there could be a chance he is locked in the closet with vVroom on the player going over and over again while he is reading the collected works of Faust by the light of the LED on the player. Be free. mcnichot [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 17:15:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Martin G. Bradburn" Subject: Ist Post This is my first post to the list. I have been subscribed since #149. I am a 36 and have been listening to KC since 1974. I was born in Wednesfield, Staffordshire, UK and moved to the US in 68. I have played guitar for about 16 yrs and am currently performing with the band Litmus Paper here in Rhode Island. I finally got to see Mr Fripp and TLCG at Univ. of R.I. March 1990. The wait was worth it. The first impression of the League was the shear strength of the playing and music. Playing through some small monitors and satellites the sound was huge expansive and at once delicate and light. Robert was the conductor, but in a benevolent and connective way. The 3 soloists (maybe some of the CGT?)were all very impressive and Robert soloed infrequently but with passion and precision. I was in xtc. (The more I listened to it(LCG), the more I liked it. For Xmas I gave some friends of mine the following excerpt from The Great Deceiver booklet, From the section A Personal Note to Young musicians, Fripp 1992. It is one of the most moving passages I have ever read about playing music. I hope you don't mind a reprint here for those who haven't seen it already: The first price the musician pays in order to play music is to endure the ramifications of the music industry, at whatever level. The second is to persist in failure. The third is to persist in success. The fourth is to endure the ramifications of the music industry at a new level. The only reward a musician receives is music: the privilege of standing in the presence of music when it leans over and takes us into its confidence. As it is for the audience. In this moment everything else is irrelevant and without power. For those in music, this is the moment when life becomes real. The concern of the musician is music. The concern of the professional musician is business. Only become a professional musician if there is no choice. May we trust the inexpressible benevolence of the creative impulse. When all is impossible and seemingly without hope, May we trust the inexpressible benevolence of the creative impulse and listen to its silent voice with a quiet ear. I usually stop and take a deep breat at this point I just received VROOOM and Bridge Between from PP and they are both great. A definite hybrid and powerful unit is the new KC. To get AB,BB,TL back from the 80's band and add Trey and Pat to the lineup, what a monster looking for a dimension to play in. A lot of the interplay was subltle through the mix. The shear point of development or calling card, it begs for more time to find the depth of its spectrum. A Bridge Between is my player more often than Vrooom. It maybe because I had the Video (Thanks JUB) before the CD. The beauty of these pieces is enhanced by the recording quality of the CD and if you've seen the video then the special interplay of this group is more than evident. Robert's new Frippertronics is phenomenal. Does anyone have any specs on the digital slant? It seems as though the overlay mode of the analog system is enhanced with the ability to store loop and edit on the fly, record and modulate the return loop via pedals/guitar. This may sound strange but I did see Reeves Gabrels (Tin Machine SNL 11/91 cover of Roxy's "If there was something" solo2). He played a descending progression and, sampling in the middle of it, was able to replay the progression as a loop, modulating the pitch of the loop with the wammy bar (a midi assignment?).I digress. Trey was a great counterpoint to Robert and CGT. Get the Video if you have the CD and vise versa.Video Highlites: Walking off repeating the looping end of Urban Landscape,"Chuckles" repeating the loop one more time with a shit eating grin on his face or ending with a kiss on his black Les Paul as if to say "You are wonderful". I am really into Adrian and saw last and met him at the Paradise Show (Boston 1989)when he played with the band (Chris Fox - Keyboards, Drummer ?) that backed up Bowie on the Sound and Vision tour (a disappointing show at Foxborough). I had sought him out 1. Because he is one of my three favorite guitar players (Robert,Adrian,Andy). 2. To thank him for and autographed Bears Rize and shine t-shirt that a friend of mine got at a Bears show in Philly (they did Purple Haze for an encore!). It was for my 30th Birthday and it say's "To Martin on his 30th Adrian Belew, Happy Birthmark". A while later Mr Musichead came out and the same friend left me a loop of "Happy Birthmark" (Bird in the Bush) on my answering machine. 3. To give him a picture taken at my birthday party face painted white with an orange sun (birthmark) to complete the loop. The show was very good with a wide pallete for a 3 piece and Adrian did a wonderful solo midi piece at the end with each string on his guitar set to a different midi channel(sound patch). A one man band for the 90's. Adrian came out approx. 1/2 hr after the show. He was very friendly and cordial. In fact Dale Bozzio (Missing Persons-Husband Terry played with Adrian in Frank's band?) was doing the star knows star bit and Adrian finally broke away to talk to his "other fans". I gave him the picture and thanked him for his music and we chatted for awhile. A really nice guy. In writing this it all seems so synchronistic (da-da-da-da, A.S. Oh no I'm really losing it now!, if this is apparent then this applies to you, otherwise not. I caught Tony Levin with Peter Gabriel at the WOMAD Show at Great Woods. He has the bottom end down to a science and his new wand on the fingers (hammer dulcimer) style adds yet another percussive element to his multi instrument/style attack. With Trey on Stick as well, they will surely take the lows to another high.(Sorry) I hope we on the East Coast USA (Providence - maybe the PPAC (ex Olympic Theatre) get to see The Robert Solo/CGT shows,but if KC is doing the Albert Hall gig on May 17th (my daughter's birthday, "repeat after me honey, Ding Dong and Fripp") that would seem a tight schedule. If I do not get to see KC in 95 I will not feel fulfilled. Any date info? This list has been a great source of international community and something to brighten up any day it is in my mail. I would like to here any comments on any of the projects (see the discography at ftp.uwp.edu) that has not been discussed here already. A few questions: Will Eartbound ever be available again? Could we get Mr Fripp to comment on his current rig? Frippertronics & KC Was there a definite burying of the hatchet between Bill and Robert? Maybe KC couldn't exist without some friction. Does Robert now utilize the new tuning exclusively? (His comment old tunings for old songs, new for new, does this apply? How much of the RFSQ and LCG does anyone see in the new KC. A little flame to the threads that complain. With the injustices that have been perpetrated by the music police against the likes of Mr Fripp and others, I personally have no complaint for paying 20$US for an autographed copy of Vrooom. As Frank Zappa once said, if you don't support the music that you like, pretty soon it won't be there to listen to. Thanks to Tony and Ken for the net-work, to Michael Kelly (who I met at a Birdsongs of the Mesosoic (check em out) show in Boston,(He was wearing a Fracture shirt, I had to talk to him) for letting me know about E- talk, and to all of you posters and Fellow Crims. Let the new venture into the marketplace land near to you so you may lend it a quiet ear. And finally to Mr Fripp and KC, Thank You ad infinitum. I was looking at the words from 21CSM and they seem to be so appropriate to this time as we cross the bridge...... In Neurotica Martin Bradburn mbradburn at nardeb dot nar dot epa dot gov PS: Just got "Show of Hands" LCG - excellent [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 17:08:01 +1100 From: DOUGLS at cbr dot hhcs dot gov dot au Subject: Elephant Talk #164 Regarding some of the enquiries in ET#164: The 'Definitive Editions' are only available of CD. The story goes that Robert Fripp was unimpressed (to say the least) with the low quality of the original CD releases of the early Crimson albums - principally In the Court..., Poseidon , Lizard and Islands. Hence, he and Tony Arnold got hold of the master tapes and went into a studio and 'cleaned them up' for release by EG Records (I think). However, in the process of cleaning them up, much of Mr Fripp's playing has mysteriously disappeared in a number of places. All of the 80's albums on CD are Definitive Editions. Compare Mate Kudasai on vinly and CD - there's a significant difference between them, thanks to Bob and Tony playing around in their little studio in Dorset. Another correspondent enquired about 'Earthbound'. It was a live recording released after 'Islands'. It includes a version of 'Groon' and of 'Peoria' (yes, that is spelt correctly!) - which was not released elsewhere. It was recorded in about 1971 (ie pre-Islands) but released after that line-up disintegrated. It's not available now. Once RF found out how bad the quality was (and it's pretty average) he fought with the record company (Island or Atlantic - I'm not sure) and had it de-listed. You'll only find it in second-hand record stores now. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:28:45 +0600 (CST) From: Chris Pardua Subject: Islands: what's the story? I don't know a lot of King Crimson fans personally, but the few I do know have told me *repeatedly* to stay away from the "Islands" disc (I'm sorta new to KC and am buying their stuff now). I've also seen a post or two on here saying the same thing. Why? What's the deal with this disc? Is it too left field (or should that be left left field, considering how left field KC *is*, relatively speaking?)? Or does it just suck all the way through? I haven't been disappointed with any of their stuff so far--I've only got "Court," "Wake," "Lizard," "Discipline," "VROOOM," "The Compact KC," "Larks'," and am planning to pick up a mint used vinyl copy of "Earthbound" (if the store still has it). What's the big stink over "Islands?" I can't imagine Fripp and Co. doing a horrendous recording...maybe a fluke song here and there, but not a whole damn album... Of course my naivete as a new fan sets me up for a flame, so go ahead if you feel it's necessary... Chris Pardua "Wandering between two worlds, one dead, pardua at mc dot edu The other powerless to be born"--Matthew Arnold [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 13:12 PST From: Timothy Edwards Subject: (COPY) Fripp going techno.. This is from the Ambient list. Thought that you'd like to see Fripp discussion in circles other than our own. --t -------------------------TEXT-OF-FORWARDED-MAIL-------------------------------- Subject: Fripp going techno.. Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 22:54:58 +1100 (EST) Sender: owner-ambient at HYPERREAL dot COM > Actually, Grid & Fripp seem to be quite chummy. Bob appears on 1992 Grid album > four five six on a few cuts, and don't forget the killer, trancey remixes of > Fripp/Sylvian's Darshan. Fripp is all over the place, and has even been working > with 70+ year-old Algerian Rai singer Chekka Remitti as of late, in addition to > his renewed King Crimson and Frippertronics work. (thanks for all the very informative replies to my message.. I'm rapidly gaining a lot of respect for Fripp) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 15:15:29 PST From: "Allen Huotari" Subject: RF at Tower Records Hollywood Robert Fripp is scheduled to appear at Tower Records on Sunset Blvd. in Hollywood on Monday, January 23. Sorry that I don't have more details, this is all that was announced on the radio this a.m. However, the announcement did imply that this would be a performance not merely an in store promo (this seems likely. He did perform at Tower in 1979 shortly after the Madame Wong's fiasco). If you're anywhere near LA on this date, contact Tower for more info. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Walter Harley Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 15:36:22 TZ Subject: Sara Lee > From: Nadav Noah Caine > Subject: Bewitched, Recommendations, Sara Lee > > First, does > anybody know what became of Sara Lee after the League? She's done a few things with the Indigo Girls (as have the Roches, with whom Robert Fripp has also been involved...). I believe she plays bass on the last two albums and has also toured with them. Incidentally, Jerry Marotta's also on the most recent Indigo Girls album. --Walter Harley (walterh at microsoft dot com) no .sig, my operating system doesn't have filenames that begin with '.' [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:20:44 +0100 From: Peter dot Flach at kub dot nl (Peter A. Flach) Subject: concert KC Den Haag, Netherlands, May 15 Just saw an ad in my newspaper that King Crimson (listed as Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, Bill Bruford -- dunno what happened to the other two) is playing in the Congresgebouw in Den Haag, Netherlands on May 15. Tickets are available as of next Saturday (Jan. 21). --Peter [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 11:56:38 -0500 From: nbratton at umich dot edu Subject: Earthbound >_Earthbound_ >Back in the early seventies I could swear I saw a King Crimson album >called "Earthbound" that apparently had the first electronic drum solo. >I didn't have enough money to buy it when I first saw it and >unfortunately have never seen it or heard it referred to since. Does >anyone have any info about this recording? The deal with Earthbound is that it was termed "the fifth album in a series of..." something which I have forgotten. The point is that it was the fifth album in some series, ItCotCK, ItWoP, Lizard, and Islands being the first four. It is a live recording, and the song list is: side 1 -21st Century Schizoid Man [very crunchy vocal distortion on Boz for this one] -Peoria -A Sailor's Tale side 2 ??? [I think there is another song on this side. I have a cassette recoring from vinyl but I can't remember offhand] -Groon The whole album is very low-fi. It seems very personal with the audience, and the live effect of 21st... is very harsh and grating, but tight and fast like the album track. As far as I can tell, there isn't any electroninc drumming, but I have not actually listened for any. The song Groon is really my favorite on there. It is quite a jam. If you can lay your hands on a copy, I reccommend that you snatch it up. Sew lung, nb ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Nicholas Bratton-- Administrative Director, bLatent Records Suite 428 701 E. University Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1245 Tel. 313-764-5650 bLatent Records Home Page: http://www.umich.edu/~rdarden/BR ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 14:51:31 -0800 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: San Diego Fripp ticket for sale I ordered a will-call ticket from the Coach House, San Diego before the Bay Area shows were announced, and have since decided not to fly down for the show. The Coach House won't refund my ticket price, so I'm trying to sell the ticket ($15). If you're interested, please let me know by email asap, and we can work something out. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:30:00 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Blakeley Subject: Code to translate tab to Fripp tuning Here's some code that I wrote to translate standard tablature into Fripp's "new standard tuning." It works reasonably well for me -- your mileage may vary. It's AppleScript, but anyone handy with Pascal or C should be able to read & port it quite easily. Note that the output will be non-optimal. I'm toying with ideas to put all the notes as close together as possible, for easy fingering, but that's another story... Redistribute freely, and let me know if you find bugs or make cool modifications. Toby, if you don't want to put the whole code segment in the digest, it's also available at . [ Yes, I think it's better not in the digest. -- Toby ] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ----- ADMINISTRIVIA ----- ** POSTINGS Please send all postings to Toby Howard, at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** SUBSCRIPTIONS/ADDRESS CHANGES USA subscribers: please contact Ken Bibb at elephant-talk-request at arastar dot com. 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No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]