From elephant-talk at arastar dot comFri Dec 16 15:02:16 1994 Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 10:19:30 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v94 #161 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 161, Friday, 16 December 1994 Today's Topics: For Sale: Frejus 1982 VCR Tape Elephant-talk digest v94 #160 1000 years availibility Thela Hun Ginjeet + Matte Kudesai Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #160 Urgent: Sylvian Fripp show broadcast on British TV, Dec 10th 1999 How godlike are stick players? Gentle Giant on CD! Fred Frith Guitar Quartet music through internet Re: FSOL + Fripp broadcast: is it being released? VROOOM in Ma. , Used Sticks Sylvian/Fripp video? Re: Crimso Revelation Crimson review Re: Guitar Tuning / Summers Stylistic link (was: islands errata) Robert Fripp/Iona New Standard Tuning unpronounceable RE:I Advance Masked and Bewitched Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #160 ET laser disc of Sylvian/Fripp show fripp tuning gauges for Trey Gunn... DGM now takes credit cards cheap VROOOM more fripp from Zeppo Impressions of _1000 Years_ Abrasive Lyrics [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 15:05:34 -0500 From: ad520 at freenet dot buffalo dot edu (Daniel M. Dumych) Subject: For Sale: Frejus 1982 VCR Tape King Crimson's "the noise / Frejus 1982" is available to whoever wants it most eagerly, and e-mails me first. It is in excellent condition, and I am selling it for $20, with First Class Postage included (US only). Here are the specs: "A concert by King Crimson recorded at the Arena, Frejus, France, 27th August 1982. 1. Waiting Man 2. Matte Kudusai 3. Sheltering Sky 4. Neal and Jack and Me 5. Indiscipline 6. Heartbeat 7. Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part II Colour, 55 minutes in length, VHS / Hi-Fi / Stereo (mono compatible) -- ================================================================= Daniel M. Dumych | "The whole earth is full of monuments ad520 at freenet dot buffalo dot edu | to nameless inventors." Otis T. Mann ================================================================= [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 12:10:26 -0800 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: Elephant-talk digest v94 #160 >From: aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) >Subject: Jamie Muir - Dart Drug??? >Date: Sun, 4 Dec 94 3:03:17 EST > >Supposedly Jamie Muir has a new solo CD called "Dart Drug" out in the >UK. This is actually an old Derek Bailey free-improv album that features Jamie Miur. It's been out for years and years. Haven't got it yet, but it's been on my list since the Penguin jazz guide first edition came out (last year?). Check there for more info. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 14:04:45 -0600 From: Glen Astarita Subject: 1000 years availibility Hi, If its any consolation to Trey Gunn, I recently purchased "1000 Years" from Tower Records in New Orleans. Funny as it may seem, this particular outlet is generally pretty lackluster when it comes to new MAJOR label releases in general. Especially jazz and jazz/fusion type stuff. One alternative is to call Tower mail order # 800 648-4844. I've had 100% success ordering just about anything....Hope this helps out.. Glenn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 15:26:42 EST From: Broken Subject: Thela Hun Ginjeet + Matte Kudesai Hi. I'm ashamed to admit that I'm a newcomer to King Crimson. I was always into Belew & Bruford's work but never bothered to check out K.C. until recently... Anyways, I picked up Discipline on vinyl a couple of weeks back and I'm consistently amazed at how fresh it sounds 14 years later. (It did come out in 1980 didn't it?) So my question is: What does Thela Hun Ginjeet and Matte Kudesai mean? Or are they just totally made up? Thanx, Howie the Newbie [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 15:39:05 EST From: brzrkr at unipress dot com Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #160 Regarding tunings, I've been playing with the following set, which I thought might be what Fripp's is (I've seen Fripp w/LCG several times, but he's been annoyingly mysterious about detailing the tunings on these occassions), but am obviously wrong. Still, it offers some interesting diversion... E-E-B-F#-C#-E where E stays the same A drops a fourth to E D drops a minor third to B G moves down slightly to F# B moves up to C# E stays the same One variation of this I'd like to fool with is moving the top E to G#, which would provide more orthogonality. I am uncertain that the string will stand for this, however. I am not thrilled with losing a string in these tunings, but the rich bottom, coupled with the ability to play close intervals on the bottom two strings, does make up for this in some measure. N-joy. Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr at unipress dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 20:41 GMT From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: Urgent: Sylvian Fripp show broadcast on British TV, Dec 10th WOW! Tomorrow, on "Cue the Music", Meridian TV in the south of England, a Sylvian/Fripp show is to be broadcast. I assume that this is the Japanese concert, whcih I already have a copy of (thanks Glenn!), but it will be nice to hear it in stereo, first generation! For those of you in the rest of the UK, watch your listings. I would have killed myself if this had been broadcast & I had missed it! -- Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) Web users, try: http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/ronc/index.html [Includes pages on my research, & music: my collection, wants & for sale] ***** I'll be away from Dec 11th to Dec 29th ***** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 06:03:51 -0600 From: eclark at MAIL dot UTEXAS dot EDU (Industry) Subject: 1999 I was wondering what the sound of Robert Fripp's 1999 was like. Is it anything like "Bringing Down the Light" on the Sylvian / Fripp CD? I was thinking of buying it and was wondering if it was any good. Please send responses to my e-mail address, thanx, -Erick [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Walter Harley Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 15:25:55 TZ Subject: How godlike are stick players? I've just been listening to 1000 Years (available here in Seattle at Silver Platters), and realize that more than I thought of the Crimson/Fripp/Sylvian/Gabriel sound might be coming from the stick. Can anyone familiar with playing stick, or anyone who's seen a stick player play solo, tell me how much of this is simultaneous? For instance, how much overdubbing goes into an album like 1000 Years, where at times there are distinct bass-type sounds, guitar-type sounds, and keyboard-like textures, all overlaid? Is Trey Gunn likely to be doing this all at the same time, or is each line recorded separately? As an aside, I remember some years back when Patrick Moraz and Bill Bruford did some duo works. I listened to the albums and thought "well, nice, lots of layers, but with enough time in the studio I could probably do something like that too." And then I saw the two of them do it live :-) --Walter Harley no .sig, my operating system doesn't have filenames that begin with '.' [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 19:50:05 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Gordon Subject: Gentle Giant on CD! HI! A little while ago, I was moaning about not being able to get GG on cd and alot of folks seeded shocked, as I was upon said responses. Weel I've got In a glass house, Missing Piece and Interview (The other first 5, I had) from Scotland, Virgin Megastore and Tower in Glasgow (me mate is there, in Glasgow, Maryhill)!!! I also discovered that they have only been available (as we americans would say import) since 1993, not much earlier as I was lead to believe. I'm listening to ...Glass house as I write this. I just wish that I didn't have to have some one go to Scotland to get them, but, I greatful...big smiley face!!! bruce, Lord of the Reedy River, purveyor of astrology, etymology and legerdemain. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 09 Dec 1994 22:40:00 +0100 From: MPE at hop dot dinoco dot de (Michael Peters) Subject: Fred Frith Guitar Quartet For all those Crimheads who are into harmonically and rhythmically complex, dense, and experimental music, here's one recommendation: Fred Frith Guitar Quartet (Fred Frith is one of the big names in rock avantgarde circles. He became somewhat more famous with his 'Step across the border' movie which I also recommend. It is available on video.) There is a CD out with the Quartet pieces and it's very interesting although for me somewhat difficult to get into. This changed when I saw this incredible quartet live here in Cologne/Germany. If you love those beautifully dense Fripp / Guitar Craft pieces, Fred Frith's Guitar Quartet will leave you breathless and utterly amazed, especially when seen live. I haven't seen anything like this in many years. Frith, Rene Lussier, Marc Howell, and Nick Didkovsky play electric guitars, and very virtuously. Most pieces are too complicated to play by heart so they're playing from a score. There was not a boring second in the concert, and not a piece that wasn't full of surprises and musically stimulating ideas. There was also a very warm and friendly atmosphere (Frith is an extremely likeable person). The audience really didn't want them to leave even after 3 encores. The Quartet tours here in Europe at the moment. Unfortunately I don't know where they're planning to go. If they come somewhere near you, don't miss them ! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | Michael Peters CIS 100041,247 | | Postfach 600645, 50686 Koeln, Germany mpeters at ibm dot net | | "Do nothing for as long as possible" (Brian Eno) | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Baires at mafac1 dot satlink dot net Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 13:06:01 Subject: music through internet ETalkers I have read about the release of new music through internet (For example the Rolling Stones concert in Dallas) Can someone explain what does this mean? Thanks in advance Alberto Guido Chester e-mail Baires at mafac1 dot satlink dot net fax (541)581-0702 Argentina [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Re: FSOL + Fripp broadcast: is it being released? Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 15:48:32 +0100 From: Eric Rutten > I found this in Intergalactic Garage's pre-order list. Anyone here know if > this is the "live over the wire" broadcast they did with Robert? > FSOL ISDN ltd (live + 3 studio trx) CD (UK) 12/05/94 24.95 22.50 I bought that one over the week-end. I just love FSOL's music. The cover says that Guitar sounds and textures are "sourced from" R. Fripp on the title marked with a "%", but then there is no track in the list the title of which is marked with a "%" (or is it my eyesight? :-). Which makes you believe he must be somewhere there, but I didn't clearly hear him (or is it my ears? :-) Eric ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eric Rutten | e-mail: rutten at irisa dot fr IRISA / INRIA | phone: +33 99 84 72 33 Campus de Beaulieu | fax: +33 99 84 71 71 F-35042 RENNES CEDEX - FRANCE | telex:UNIRISA 950 473F ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Imagine the piece as a set of disconnected events (An Oblique Strategy by Brian Eno and Peter Schmidt) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: VROOOM in Ma. , Used Sticks Date: Sun, 11 Dec 94 13:34:51 EST From: Adam Levin For those of you who live in Massachusetts, the Newbury Comics chain is now stocking VROOOM and 1999. No sign of Trey's CD. Q: Has anyone on this list dealt with Traktor Topaz, the used Stick refurbisher/dealer? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 14:41:49 -0800 From: tntmusic at halcyon dot halcyon dot com (Kevin J. O'Conner dba Tinty Music) Subject: Sylvian/Fripp video? >From the Sylvian mailing list: >No need to worry.......... The complete [Sylvian/Fripp] show, (14 tracks, >100 + minutes) plus interviews is being released in Japan on laserdisc >(NTSC) format on Feb. 1 '95. >Anybody interested I'll be stocking multiple copies as i'm sure this will go >out of print in a few weeks (as quite a few Japanese laser videos do indeed) > >Bill.... from under the AB-CDome U.S.A. 914-939-2223 Can anyone out there verify this information? Kevin Kevin J. O'Conner d.b.a. Tinty Music P.O. Box 85363 Seattle, WA 98145-1363 vox: (206) 632-9369 fax/modem: (206) 545-2868 e-mail: tntmusic at halcyon dot com tintmeister at pan dot com k dot oconner at genie dot geis dot com zzs32874 at pcvan dot or dot jp. "If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP!" - Mike Myers, in SNL sketch with Kyle MacLachlan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 20:30:59 -0500 (EST) From: terry kroetsch f Subject: Re: Crimso Revelation I reckon this is what Sundays are all about: went to a "record show" and purchased MORE KC CDs. My wallet has bled for so much of this music lately. Besides VROOOM (I think it is wonderful), 1999 (extremely beautiful and moving music, I find), Trey's CD (a great driving record), a Gordon Haskell CD (appealing and captivating but simple) I have now tossed another $30 into the pool: King Crimson - Celebration of the Lizard. This boot was recorded March 27, 1972 at the Orpheum Theatre, Boston. Do you all know about this and I'm just being Naive? Well, I am VERY interested in early KC because I missed seeing them until the Red period yet adored those early records when they first came out. I always hope I'll get a thread of discussion from people who did see early Crimson live. Anyone? What was it like? Anyway, this is the first I've known of live recording of this period with Fripp, Collins, Burrell and Wallace but focusing on Wake of Poseidon as well as Islands. 1: Introduction (scarey) 2: Pictures of a City (amazing performance - great ensemble) 3: Formentara Lady (note for note) 4: The Devil's Triangle (absolutely spell binding) 5: Cirkus 6: Pandemonium (just that) 7: 21st Century (too slow - Fripp solo outlandish) 8: Celebration of the Lizard 9: Cadence and Cascade The sound is definately "period" sound but quite an amazing document of four musicians working well together based around extraordinary compositions (which I've always felt Pictures of a City is). I guess we can still hope for more Boxed Set action from Fripp and early Crimson - perhaps there really good recordings of this very same AMAZING concert. Oh gawd - I also bought the beautiful Damage set yesterday. It's is also quite terrific, I must say. I guess I should be glad 1994 was such an exciting year in the world of Crimson and Fripp but, frankly, I'm just feeling broke. But, I reckon, that's what Sundays are for.... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 94 00:40:39 EST Subject: Crimson review This review was written by J.D. Considine of the Baltimore Sun. The copyright is owned by the Baltimore Sun. KING CRIMSON - "VROOOM" (Discipline 9401) However much King Crimson might take its ideas an direction from guitarist Robert Fripp - the only Crimsonite to have endured all the band's personnel changes - its sound usually derives from the rest of the band. So it's now surpirse that "Vrooom," the six-song EP intended to introduce the new "double trio" incarnation of King Crimson, explodes out of the speakers with an entirely new twist on the band's sound. Though many of the traditional devices are in place - the angular dissonances, shifting dynamics, lenghty instrumentals - the overall feel of the band has shifted, moving away from spotlit solos to intertwined ensemble work. That's most obvious on the instrumental title tune, but it even carries through to vocal numbers like "Cage." If, as the liner notes suggest, "Vrooom" is meant merely as "a calling card," it should be very interesting to hear what the band has to offer when it makes a real visit. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 00:04:53 -0600 From: Damon C Capehart Subject: Re: Guitar Tuning / Summers 1: Tuning - As to why Fripp chose the CGDAEG [ GEADGC for the picky folks :) ], I would say that it is because the four lower-pitched strings are exactly how a cello is tuned - in 5ths. The 5th string is just another 5th above the 4th, and the last string is a G just because A) the string would break if it were tuned to a B, and B) it's easier to make more chords with the extra G. 2: Summers - In the '80s, I was not into KC... in fact, I didn't even know anything about prog in general, but I *did* listen to the Police. I knew I liked it - a lot :) - but I neither knew nor cared why. Well, I hadn't listened to The Police since about '86 or so, until just a couple of weeks ago I happened across a used Police Box Set. Something extremely interesting occured somewhere within the synapses of my brain... There are gigantic similarities between Fripp's playing and Summers'! Check out "Behind My Camel" from Zenyatta Mondatta, or "Rehumanize Yourself" or "Omegaman" from Ghost in the Machine, or "Mother" from Synchronicity. It's actually not so surprising how much in common the two guys have in common, since they were buddies back in Bournemouth. Just one other connection between KC and The Police (unless it's in the FAQ): The song "Tea in the Sahara" from Synchronicity is also based on _The_Sheltering_Sky_ by Paul Bowles. Damon Capehart | "SALESMEN!!!" -- Rush dcapehar at utdallas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Dec 94 09:33:03 +0100 From: Bjorn dot Lisper at lip dot ens-lyon dot fr (Bjorn Lisper) Subject: Stylistic link (was: islands errata) >>Yes, "Islands" is introspective, but I don't know about it being a >>stylistic link between "Lizard" and "Lark's Tongues". >John Saylor : >This is my view: The sound world in the first three albums is orchestral in >its timbral variety and unfolding. The drumming alone is quite coloristic >in style. The sound world of Lark's Tounges &c., on the other hand, is >much more stripped down and raw. The sound sources are primarily >electronic rather than acoustic, and the distortion of the electronic >sounds is an important part of their effectiveness. I think the "stylistic link" to "Lark's Tongues" is "Earthbound" - the live album that was recorded on a cassette recorder during a US tour. Unfortunately this album seems to be rather rare: I seldom see it mentioned here. But if you get a chance to hear it: just listen to its version of "Sailor's Tale". Doesn't it's tormented guitar and eerie mellotron point right into the Lark's/Starless/Red era? This version is VERY different from the version on "Islands". Bjorn Lisper lisper at it dot kth dot se [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Dec 94 11:43:04 EST From: martino at olympus dot ctron dot com (Rob Martino) Subject: Robert Fripp/Iona I was looking at a CD of a Christian Celtic band called Iona, and noticed on the album "Along these Shores" that Robert Fripp is a guest performer, credited for "guitar and Frippertronics". I was wondering if anyone could comment on his role on this CD, I have Book of Kells, and am trying to picture how Fripp would fit in on this style of music (Clannad, Enya style music)! Then again, I'm only familiar with his work in King Crimson so there is a lot of his music I haven't heard. Rob [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 17:45:36 +0000 From: GREGORY Subject: New Standard Tuning Concerning the new standard tuning, Fripp never wanted to make it public for a long time, keeping it close to his guitar seminars and telling anyone entrusted to only reveal it to guitarists who would give it at least two months solid effort, ie it may take a while to *click*. Straight across a fret the intervals are: interval: 5th 5th 5th 5th min3rd semitones: 7 7 7 7 3 Hence CGDAEG, The second lowest string is mirrored by the top, both Gs, 7+7+7+3=24=two octaves interval. Hence the tuning combines the beauty of fifths with the practical range of strings available and also makes the non-fifth interval string an octave mirror of a lower string. My Hohner headless doesn't have the range of strings available to try this but Fripp's seven string tuning is CGDAEGA, ie a tone interval (two semitones-ha ha) on top of the above. Again practical, Beautiful and a second octave mirror, the two A strings. Chords have a strong octave base, making chords easier to create with onlyfour fingers. I have tried the top six strings of this tuning out and it is incredible, fresh, oblique, harmonically rich, slightly jazzy but the old blues licks are something I don't want to play. Trey Gunn uses this on the melody side of his 12 string grand stick, to complement the fifths on the bass side. I am primarily a bass player (with my eyes on a Stick (R) touch board instrument) eventually. So I may try living with fifths on my bass. (I am not going to be able to reach some notes but a new sound is the reward.) Fripp always said he wished he had started playing a Stick when he started as it suits his type of music. Any thoughts, personal tunings out there?? Matt matthew.gregory(a)afrc.ac.uk &(*#^*%^*%^*%*%*:&{}*%}{*:%{}:*%}{*:%}{:*}#%{:^*}%:*}%:*{:%^*{} [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Dec 94 13:11:55 -0500 From: nbratton at umich dot edu Subject: unpronounceable Greets all- I wish to thank everyone for their interesting and courteous comments and ideas posted here. Until now I have been a "passive" ET subscriber, but now I wish to ask some questions. - Can anyone give me some background or other relevant info on the "Unpronounceable" live record? I have a cassette recording of the record, and I really like the song selection. Is there anything more about it I need to know? - One thing I noticed in relation to "Unpronounceable" is that it does not appear in the Fripp discography in Eric Tamm's book. Is this because it was released on EGG as opposed to EG records, or was it overlooked? I think it was released before the book was published, but correct me if I am wrong. Much thanks, Nick Bratton... "Burning airlines give you so much more." Brian Eno [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Alister Ling at Edmn Subject: RE:I Advance Masked and Bewitched Date: Mon, 12 Dec 94 08:54:00 MST Jeremy Keens and David Beardsley commented on I advance Masked and Bewitched, from Fripp and Andy Summers. J.K: =>|> was listening to I Advance masked, and was struck again =>|>by how good the album is. as is bewitched. D.B: =>|I Advance Masked is a true jewel of Fripp from the early '80's. In fact =>|more Fripp than Summers. On Bewitched, Fripp wasn't really avaliable for =>|the sessions, that's why you hear more A.Summers. Ah, that explains why I prefer Masked so much more. In fact, on re-listening to Masked, I have put a fresh CD of it on my Christmas wish-list, since my *old* tape is losing its metal. There's only 1 track on I Advance Masked that I can't stand (the last one), whereas the first 3 or 4 tracks to Bewitched have fast early type drum machine sounds that I absolutely hate (not as much as country music though ). Bewitched is nice, but it just doesn't have the compositional quality that Masked has. Masked IS a jewel. For those who don't know either, the sound is much more reminiscent of Discipline than VROOM, guitar sound-wise and style. Neither is a loud album. Forgive my poor effort at comparing them to full KC albums, I don't need a flame. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 19:51:36 GMT From: Cheryl Elaine Smith Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #160 I received my signature copy of vroom a few days ago and while gloating to one of my friends he sai, "this ain't real" and proceeded to wipe the "w" off of adrian belew.aaaarrrggghhhh!!!i am exited with the cd.i hear different things every time i listen to it. the world is back on it's axis again.after hearing this album i am ready to quit my cover band and dive into the improvisational infinite spaces.i am tired of playing pearl jam covers for drunk people.never liked it in the first place.but the money keeps me from starving!Thank you Fripp and co. for giving me hope!now for my question:does anyone know what size strings i'd have to use for fripp's c,g,d,a,e,g tuning? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 12 Dec 1994 13:22:22 -0700 (PDT) From: MCNICHOT at CGS dot EDU Subject: ET Just to answer a couple of questions... Soundscapes is the name of RF's new album. And maybe his new technique, but it is a one man band, not a group. Djam Karet is a group from the area of Claremont CA. that used to be heavy on the prog. so side with sa a fairly heavy Crimson influence. Some of the records are still available but you have to ask around. The newer albums are on the ambient side, so if you like the hard stuff, go to the older stuff.I like the word, stuff. Please someone else explain what a stick is.I'll just say it is a multi-stringed instrument that seems difficult to play and is very dinamic. Fripp will be at Tower Records on Sunset here in LA on Jan. 22, hopefully he will play a little and talk a lot. I don't like the KC-Primus comparison very much. Primus is cool and obviously influenced by the KC sound but they seem to be coming from very different places om their approach. The guitar player for Primus drives me crazy. I have read that he is good but when he plays, he is trying to be creative and experamental, but just sounds annoying and bad. Maybe he needs to relacx a little. Primus IS NOT the modren -day KC. Also, Fugazi is good and so are some of those other PUNK bands mentioned earlier, but nothing like KC. I think that is not a valid comparison. I don't think their music "comes from the same place<" or anything like that. If you are a big KC fan, do not go out and buy those PUNK albums thinking you will be taken to the same place as KC, because you wont. That stuff is totally different and for a different frame of mind. Just my .02 cents mcnichot [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 21:31:23 -0800 From: lray at ucsd dot edu (Lee Ray) Subject: laser disc of Sylvian/Fripp show This is from a thread (from the David Sylvian mailing list) about a recording from the Sylvian/Fripp tour *other* than the one used to make Damage. (Disclaimers: For your information only. I don't know the person who posted this and am not making any recommendation, pro or con.) >Re: Urgent: Sylvian Fripp show >No need to worry.......... The complete show, (14 tracks, 100 + minutes) >plus interviews is being released in Japan on laserdisc (NTSC) format >on Feb. 1 '95. Anybody interested I'll be stocking multiple copies as >i'm sure this will go out of print in a few weeks (as quite a few >Japanese laser videos do indeed) >Bill.... from under the AB-CDome U.S.A. 914-939-2223 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 22:07:53 +0800 From: kbibb at arastar dot com (Ken Bibb) Subject: fripp tuning gauges (I can answer this one! ;) > From: Cheryl Elaine Smith > > now for my question:does anyone know what size strings > i'd have to use for fripp's c,g,d,a,e,g tuning? 11 13 23 32 46 56 and 12 15 23 32 47 60 -- Ken Bibb "Upon a wave of summer kbibb at arastar dot com A hilltop paved with gold jester at crash dot cts dot com We shut our eyes and make the promises we hold" David Sylvian--"Wave" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ANDREA at eworld dot com Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 05:47:11 PST Subject: for Trey Gunn... Don't now if Trey normally reads ET, but in the positive case I would tell him two things: 1) In the last weeks I visited most of the main Music stores here in Milan, Turin and other cities in the north of Italy. His CD is available in every place ( like VROOOM) ! I hope to see them sold too.......because 2) I LOVE - 1000 Years - !!!! It's probably my "Best of 1994". "Killing for London" is in heavy-rotation on my CD-player for two weeks now......it's incredible how great sounds a man could play with the Stick, in a band it seems so limited....1000 Years is absolutely a better "opera" than VROOOM, I hope to see him play live, alone, one day ! Ciao Andrea [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 18:15:40 GMT From: Toby Howard Subject: DGM now takes credit cards DGM Mail Order is now able to accept credit cards (Visa, MasterCard, Eurocard, Access and Delta) A WWW ordering system is uder construction. Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 16:55:34 -0500 From: sarthur at lutece dot rutgers dot edu (Stephen Arthur) Subject: cheap VROOOM VROOOM is available for $12.29 through noteworthy music 1-800-553-5370 a reliable mail order company fripp and possible productions, why do your die-hard fans end up paying more for the CD (: ( steve [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:07:26 +0200 (EET) From: Juha Nieminen Subject: more fripp from Zeppo hello again ! After delivering your reply to my friend "Zeppo" this is his reply or something like that...he will get his Internet access from January 95 (;-) Juha on behalf of Zeppo ----------------------------------------------------- In The Court Of Robert Fripp, Part 2 (An Observation By Zeppo) I'd like to inform you (if nobody else hasn't before) that on Daryl Hall's Sacred Songs there are two songs that appear also on Exposure (well, you probably knew but I found the album only a month ago): - Urban Landscape - I May Not Have...... The Urban Landscape seems to be the same version as on Exposure and I May Not...(titled as NYCNY) is a raw/"unfinished" version with different lyrics and melody than on Exposure (and Hall is not Hammill). ----------------------------------------------------- ...about CD releases... Is there a CD release of God Save The Queen/Under Heavy Manners available? ----------------------------------------------------- An addition to the RF production list (unless nobody else hasn't informed): 1990 TIPPET, KEITH & SHEPPARD, ANDY: 66 Shades Of Lipstick (EEGCD 64) Shade 1 (5:23) Keith Tippet: Shade 2 (2:37) Shade 3 (2:52) - piano (2,3,4,5,8,12,13,15) Shade 4 (4:19) - piano + woodblocks Shade 5 (3:24) (1,6,7,9,10,11,14,16) Shade 6 (0:25) - piano interior (7,11) Shade 7 (4:06) - music box (4) Shade 8 (0:52) - bells (7,11) Shade 9 (3:47) - maraca (7) Shade 10 (7:33) Shade 11 (5:32) Shade 12 (3:54) Andy Sheppard: Shade 13 (0:17) Shade 14 (3:55) - soprano sax (1,2,8,12,13,14,15) Shade 15 (3:09) - tenor sax (3,4,5,6,7,9,10,16) Shade 16 (3:45) - african flutes (11) There should be no artistic problems with pre-conceived composition or spontaneous composition (total improvisation). Both are part of the complete music. Andy and I imposed one rule upon ourselves before entering the studio. That rule being that no musical preparation was to be made individually or collectively. The music had to be carved like sculpture from the air. After three days the sculpture was completed. May music never just become another way of making money. Keith Tippet, July 1990. THIS ALBUM IS DEDICATED TO THE BLUE NOTES. All titles written by Keith Tippet and Andy Sheppard. Produced by Robert Fripp. Co-producer Tony Arnold. Recorded at Temple Music Studios, April 9 - 11, 1990. Engineers: Jon Hiseman and Tony Arnold. Mixed at the Courthouse, June 26 -28, 1990. ----------------------------------------------------- Guest appearances... Robert Fripp and King Crimson appear on Bill Bruford's video Bruford & The Beat. Fripp comments Bruford's playing and Crimson plays Discipline in studio (or in a small club..soundcheck?.. ....well, actually it's a playback). The video is from 1982 by Axis Video (Warner Bros. Music Ltd.). Nice, but too short (only 30 min.). ----------------------------------------------------- FEW WORDS ABOUT THE REMIXES/REMIXING... Couple of days ago I heard for the first time the remixed CD version of Exposure and was a bit of disapointed/pissed off. For a long I've been thinking that it would be nice to have a CD version of Exposure cause it has so many quiet parts which on vinyl record over the years "gather some extra material". SO WHY THE FUCK THEY CAN'T RELEASE CD VERSIONS 1 TO 1 WITH THE ORIGINAL ALBUMS. And in the case of Exposure why the fuck they can't release all the ORIGINAL versions of the songs on the album. At least in the case of DISENCAGE (which happens to be my favourite track on Exposure) it seems to be a different take/vocal track. The phrasing, especially in the first verse, is different/"not so heavy" as on the original vinyl version. And it sounds to me that the same goes for North Star and Chicago too. And I also have one "earwitness" to these arcuments. So because I live here on the edge of the world (Finland) and because Fripp/Kind Crimson is not a very popular here I'd like to know IS THERE AN U N R E M I X E D cd version of Exposure available. If there is, let me know because especially Fripp's records are the ones hard to find here. Remixing in general... 1. Why you have to do it? Once you've made and released an album, why you have to make it AGAIN by remixing it. If the artist is dissatisfied for the first/original version of the record (maybe there wasn't enough time or money to make it propely) and he or she goes to the studio later with more time and money to make it more listenable to HIM/HERSELF, to myself the artist should keep the result as for his/hers own entertaiment. Fripp isn't the baddest example. I'm a big Zappa fan too, so you should check out his achievements in the field of remixing. (In "Frank Zappa - A Visual Documetary By Miles" Zappa tells that he received a lot of negative feedback about his policy in rereleasing the old material and that he was planning to rerelease them once again without manipulation. Unfortunally this never happened.....so far?) 2. If you do it, I think the best way of using the remixed material is either to include them in "anniversary boxes" (Jethro Tull) or release them as "limited hardcore fanatics editions". In the case of Exposure it really pissed me off when I noticed that it wasn't the same as on vinyl [of course it said on the cover that it was remixed but I didn't know that it also ment different take(s)]. And the remixing hasn't make it better, at least to my ears. Of course I must admit that in the business point of view it is propably bit too much to ask for and make both the original and the remixed CD version, because very likely there isn't enough market for them (at least in the "not top 20 stuff"). CDs have many advantages (except they kill coverart, if you think for example Yes) and for me, who was born long before CD was invented, it's nice to have your favourite records available again with no "disturbances". So I felt a little bit cheated when I heard the CD Exposure. I have nothing against REMASTERING but remixing is a different question (you could as well start selling for example 4 or 8 track records and the recordplayers were included with mixer so you can make your own mix every day if you like). Maybe the interactive CD-rom is the answer to this problem. To my knowledge at least Peter Gabriel should have a CD-rom where you can mix some of his songs. So as a "rerelease policy" for records I prefer original versions. ----------------------------------------------------- Some of my Court's Royal records: ANDERSON/BRUFORD/WAKEMAN/HOWE: ABWH [BB/TL] An Evening Of Yes Music (2CD + Video) [BB] ASIA: Asia [JW] Alpha [JW] Astra (CD) [JW] Live In Moscow (CD) [JW] BELEW, ADRIAN: Inner Revolution Mr. Music Head Twang Bar King BRUFORD, BILL: All Heaven Broke Loose (CD) Bruford And The Beat (Video) [BB + 81-84 Crimson] Bruford Tape Dig Earthworks Feels Good To Me Gradually Going Tornado One Of A Kind Stamping Ground - Live (CD) CAMEL: A Live Record [MC] Raindances [MC] EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER: Brain Salad Surgery [GL] Ladies And Gentlemen (2 Cas) [GL] Pictures At An Exhibition (Cas) [GL] Tarkus (CD) [GL] EMERSON, LAKE & POWELL: s/t [GL] ENO, BRIAN: Another Green World [RF] Before And After Science [RF] Here Comes The Warm Jets [RF] FAMILY: Fearless [JW] It's Only A Movie FRIPP, ROBERT: Four From Exposure (promo maxi-single) [TL] The League Of Gentlemen 1999 Soundscapes - Live In Argentina (CD) FRIPP, ROBERT & THE LEAGUE OF CRAFTY GUITARISTS: Show Of Hands (CD) [TG] FRIPP, ROBERT & SYLVIAN, DAVID: Damage (CD) [TG/PM] The First Day (CD) [TG] FRIPP, ROBERT & WILLCOX, TOYAH: The Lady Or The Tiger? THE ROBERT FRIPP STRING QUINTET: The Bridge Between (CD) [TG] GABRIEL, PETER: 1 (Cas) [RF] 3 [RF/TL] 4 [TL] So [TL] GILES, GILES & FRIPP: The Cheerful Insanity Of Giles, Giles & Fripp (CD) GREENSLADE: Bedside Manners Are Extra [AM] Greenslade [AM] Spyglass Guest [AM] Time And Tide [AM] HALL, DARYL: Sacred Songs [RF] HARPER, ROY: HQ [BB] HASKELL, GORDON: Its Just A Plot To Drive You Crazy (CD) HOWE, STEWE: The Album (CD) [BB] Beginnings [BB] Turbulence (CD) [BB] KING CRIMSON: Beat Discipline Earthbound The Essential King Crimson - Frame By Frame (4CD box) The Great Deceiver (4CD box) In Concert 1973 + 1975 ???? (CD bootleg) In The Court Of The Crimson King In The Wake Of Poseidon (CD) Islands (CD) Lament (CD bootleg) Lizard Lizard (CD) The Mince (2CD bootleg) Pandemonium (CD bootleg) Red The Return Of The Crimson King (CD bootleg) Starless And Bible Black (CD) Three Of A Perfect Pair USA VROOOM (CD) (signature series) The Young Person's Guide To King Crimson MORAZ, PATRICK & BRUFORD, BILL: Flags MR.MISTER: Go On... [PM] Wellcome To The Real World [PM] PFM: Chocolate Kings Cook (aka Live In USA) (Cas) Jet Lag L'Album Di PFM Photos Of Ghosts [Lyrics PS] The World Became The World [Lyrics PS] SINFIELD, PETE: Still [MC/GL/JW/BOZ/IW] SUNDAY ALL OVER THE WORLD: Kneeling At The Shrine (CD) [RF/TG] TALKING HEADS: Remain In Light [AB] THE KEITH TIPPET GROUP: Dedicated To You, But You Weren't Listening TIPPET, KEITH/RILEY, HOWARD: In Focus TIPPET, KEITH/SHEPPARD, ANDY: 66 Shade Of Lipstick (CD) [Prod. RF] TORN, DAVID: Cloud About Mercury [BB/TL] UK: Danger Money [JW] Night After Night [JW] UK [BB/JW] URIAH HEEP: High And Mighty [JW] VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR: Godbluff H To He Who Am The Only One [RF] Pawn Hearts [RF] VAN DER GRAAF: The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome VARIOUS ARTISTS: Peter And The Wolf [BB] WATABANE, KATSUMI: The Spice Of Life [BB] YES: Big Generator Close To The Edge [BB] Going For the One 90125 (CD) 9012 Live - The Solos Re-Evolution (bootleg) Relayer Say Yes (2CD bootleg from Union tour) [BB] Symphonic Music Of Yes (CD) [BB] Tales From Topographic Oceans Talk (CD) Time And A Word [BB] Union (CD) [BB] The Yes Album (CD) [BB] Yesshows Yesterdays [BB] Yesyears (4CD) [BB] Yesyears (Video) [BB] ZAPPA, FRANK: Baby Snakes (CD) [AB] Sheik Yerbouti [AB] (+ about 100 other Zappa albums) (...and about 750 other albums/CDs/casettes) ----------------------------------------------------- AB = Adrian Belew BB = Bill Bruford Boz = Boz Burrell MC = Mel Collins RF = Robert Fripp TG = Trey Gunn PM = Pat Mastelotto AM = Andy McCulloch GL = Greg Lake TL = Tony Levin PS = Pete Sinfield IW = Ian Wallace JW = John Wetton ----------------------------------------------------- Hail to the King.... and merry christmas from Finland! Zeppo from Finland. End of file. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Walter Harley Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 20:10:04 TZ Subject: Impressions of _1000 Years_ Been listening more & more to Trey Gunn's album _1000 Years_. Summary: great! If I had to pick between this and the other recent Fripp/Crimson/Sylvian/etc. new material I've heard, I'd pick either this or _Damage_. It's more original than I expected it to be, and satisfyingly complex but still lyrical. I find it darker and more textural than Belew's solo releases; less spacy than the new Soundscapes; better mixed than Sylvian/Fripp's _The First Day_ (I think _Damage_ is much improved in that respect); not surprisingly, more consistent and refined than _VROOOM_; and less pedantic than _The Bridge Between_. Don't get me wrong, I like the others a lot too; the negative adjectives are just by comparison. Sonically, I find myself imagining Fripp & Levin playing with Dead Can Dance, except that this is at the less poppy and more Eastern end of DCD's spectrum. Or maybe it's a bit like Peter Gabriel's _Passion_. It's definitely soundtrack-y. Anyway, I'm enjoying it, and recommend it to all. --Walter Harley no .sig, my operating system doesn't have filenames that begin with '.' [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 13:21:29 EST From: astarling at octrf dot on dot ca Subject: Abrasive Lyrics Hello, One thing that always troubled me was the opening line in 'Great Deceiver,' i.e. 'Health food faggot, with a bartered bride.' In one of the back issues of 'Discipline' I read that this could have been Fripp's parting shot at Pete Sinfield. Has anyone ever confirmed this? It surprises me because, besides being a juvenile outburst, if Fripp is interested in Eastern spirituality as I believe he is, one of the basic ideas that permeates much of it is the idea of everything being inter-related and everything in the universe being One. Disparaging a group of people doesn't fit well with these tenets. Can anyone shed some more light on this? Regards, Andrew Starling. astarling at octrf dot on dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ----- ADMINISTRIVIA ----- ** POSTINGS Please send all postings to Toby Howard, at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** SUBSCRIPTIONS/ADDRESS CHANGES USA subscribers: please contact Ken Bibb at elephant-talk-request at arastar dot com. 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No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]