From elephant-talk at arastar dot comFri Dec 9 14:16:46 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 10:31:55 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v94 #160 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 160, Friday, 9 December 1994 Today's Topics: Crimson News Re: Elephant Talk #160 Soundscape performance announcement RE: Elephant-talk digest v94 #159 islands errata Re: Various Posts Primus and Crimso VROOOM comments (number 1,894 in a series) Fripp and Fracture drum matters Fwd: of shoes & ships & sealing wax ... and wireless and things. THRAK! Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #159 Re: VROOOM thoughts My hello, Fripp's tuning, etc. notes.. .. .. ... ... .. .. ... 1999 ET response -- crafty tuning Jamie Muir - Dart Drug??? elephant talk FSOL + Fripp broadcast: is it being released? replies to 159 et-faq-0.2 Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #159 Babble...burble...banter... Ending Echo Re:VROOOM title track Crimson sound in Primus Gitbox Rebellion - New album! Fripp's activities in 1995 "Johnny was a Racecar Driver"? SAI BABA Possible Bankruptcy in Canada photos/essential F&E alternatives Vrooom in top 10 HAPPY CHRISTMAS [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Crimson News Date: Fri, 2 Dec 94 0:50:52 EST Just got some new info on the upcoming Crimson CD from Trey Gunn. I figured Trey might be too busy to post this to the list himself, so I thought I'd forward it: - The new Crimson CD is titled "Thrak" and clocks in at just over 60 minutes. They're finishing mixing it at Real World as I type this. - "Thrak," "Vrooom," "Sex," and "One Time" have been re-recorded for the album. - Possible release date is April 1, 1995 (April Fool's day!!!) ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Anil Prasad aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ottari at ismennt dot is (Ottar Isberg) Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #160 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 17:29:06 +0000 (GMT) Hi everybody I listened to John Wettons album recently (WOM/Karlsruhe) and have to say the following: - if you like the improvisational KC from 1973, don't buy this album. - if you like ASIA with Wetton where he sings about love bla bal, buy it I was unable to hear Fripp although he is listed. Johne Wetton sing much about god and positivness which is good but there are beeter records with such materail around. John has nothing to offer musically. Shame , he was such an incredible player. Orn Orrason MDS ltd Iceland [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:03:29 -0800 From: lray at ucsd dot edu (Lee Ray) Subject: Soundscape performance announcement Reading this group is a real pleasure. Thank you, Toby Howard and all! I have been lurking here in the 'States and emerge from the shadows with this tidbit: Fripp/Soundscape Coach House San Diego (in California) 10475 San Diego Mission Road Friday, January 27 at 8pm $15 ticket sales: 619.563.0060 (and through Ticket*ster) quoted (without permission) from the San Diego Union-Tribune Concert Update by George Varga Wednesday, November 30, 1994 "Tickets are available at Ticket*ster for the following new shows at the Coach House San Diego...English progressive-rock pioneer Robert Fripp, who--rather than perform with his recently reunited band, King Crimson, his League of Crafty Guitarists or his new String Quintet--will perform with yet another new band, Soundscape, Jan. 27..." I have read in this group about a disc called "Soundscape". Is this the same as the "band" in this announcement? Regards to all, Lee Ray P. S. Isn't Vroom the sound a motorcycle makes in a comic book? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 2 Dec 94 22:02:00 EST From: "FURR" Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v94 #159 Hello, all. First things first: Toby, this list is incredible. I've heard about it numerous times on NerveNet (hello, James and Malcolm), and I'm quite impressed. Ditto for "Vrooom!"; I'm not going to give what seems to be an obligatory frame-by-frame rundown. What I'll say, though, is that when I started listening to KC (At age 12) they were just getting around to breaking up :( and I hoped I'd see them reform. Needless to say, I'm happy; I have something (musical) to be excited about again. Some questions and comments re: previous issues: I read an interview with Steps Ahead's Mike Maineieri (sp?), wherein he mentioned producing, in the 'near future', a collaboration between Tony Levin (then his bandmate) and Eddie Van Halen (!), as well as a TL solo effort. This was around the time that "N.Y.C." first appeared, and aside from "The Bear" (on _Plus From Us_), I've yet to see anything from my favorite bassist (solo, I mean)! Any word of a solo project? Or is there one out there that I'm just missing? I heard that John Wetton will be in UK. No offense to anyone, but without Bruford, Holdsworth, and Bozzio (who's contributed some great drumming to the new Torn album), I don't think they'll amount to much. Finally, two questions: 1: Someone mentioned Djam Karet to me recently, and they were just mentioned in the last ET. What do they sound like, and are they still in print? 2: Am I the only person on the face of the entire planet that remembers a group or album called "Low Flying Aircraft"? As I recall, it was from the late 1970's/early 1980's, and featured members of KC. Just curious. Enough out of me. Thanks all. Regards, Paul Bogan e4152018 at apollo dot montclair dot edu "chaos is tasty AND USEFUL TOO" --donald barthelme [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: islands errata Date: Fri, 02 Dec 1994 17:09:35 EST From: John Saylor [x] >From: greg dot aranda at toadhall dot com (Greg Aranda) >Au contraire... Mr. Tippett does, indeed, play piano on Islands. >From: David Maclennan >I suggest John Saylor take another look at the liner notes to "Islands" -- >Keith Tippett does indeed play on this album, Mea culpa! I promise to not trust my memory about personnel any more [thank you to the astute readers who took the time to correct me]. >Yes, "Islands" is introspective, but I don't know about it being a >stylistic link between "Lizard" and "Lark's Tongues". This is my view: The sound world in the first three albums is orchestral in its timbral variety and unfolding. The drumming alone is quite coloristic in style. The sound world of Lark's Tounges &c., on the other hand, is much more stripped down and raw. The sound sources are primarily electronic rather than acoustic, and the distortion of the electronic sounds is an important part of their effectiveness. In Islands, the band still holds onto it's baroque orientation with long narrative lyrics by Sinfield, and a timbral pallette that includes other instrumentalists and sound resources [string 4tet] beyond the standard rock 4tet [even including mellotron]. But there is a more unfinished [and "modern"] sound world that begins to be heard here as well. "Ladies of the Road" shares a lot more than it's jaded lyrical perspective with "Easy Money". I can hear a link. In many ways, Lark's Tounges is a break with the musical past of KC, but I can hear its seeds in Islands. jsaylor [glad to know people still pay attention to these albums] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:08:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Scott T. Lillis" Subject: Re: Various Posts Chris F. wrote: >Did the combined guitar & vocals sound at the beginning of Cage remind >anyone else of Primus' "Johnny Was A Racecar Driver"? That was my >first thought when I first listened to the disk. That is exactly what I thought too. I love this song to consequently. Next to the let down of Thrak. Thrak's ok, but I think the polyrhthmic structure and melodic texture were underdeveloped in favor of relentless noise. This is some thing that occurs in many early 70's improvs(about the noise, that is). I liked thrak for about the first 2 minutes, which summarize the entire song. The drumming is decent at least. Also I think the end of the song VROOOM is the ending that LTiA pt.III should have had. I agree with Tamm that LTiA III starts out great then the ending just lets you down and has the uninteresting fade out, which seems to say: "we can't think of an ending, so just fade awy". >Don't look to far for the meaning of VROOOM... just like you were put in a >racing car. Thank You! >Do you have any philosophy regarding the process of improvising with >sound itself (as opposed to just musical notes)?... Interesting idea. I find such expermentation fascinating. That's why I think analog synthesizers are cool. The allow one to explore waveforms during performance. That's also what intrigues me about Eno's & Fripp's use of texturally evolving soundscapes. I would love to explore these ideas, but integrate them with the actual synthesis, rather than just the note production. As mathematician/musician I'd like to develop ways to provide different elements of user interaction that influence the evolution of a waveform. This is all a bit abstract, which is why I'd like to turn it in to something more accessible. These are some rather random and possibly implausible ideas, I'm still curious though. An additional note, I, and others, are working on a KC tablature project. I want to put into tabs any KC song I can. I'd like to bring the ftp site (nevada) to a new level of KC tab. Anyone who would like to join this effort is welcome, be it contributions, suggestions, or postive critiques of the work done so far. Any decent contribtions however small are welcome. I'm keeping the files and simply add in new parts or start new ones, so I don't expect someone to simply transcribe a whole song before they feel they can contribute. Please contact me if your interested. Thanks, Scott Lillis sl4q+ at andrew dot cmu dot edu ps. Sorry for the long post, but it has been a while. "To every (omega)-consistent class, k, of formulae, there correspond recursive class-signs r, such that neither v-Gen-r nor ~(v-Gen-r) belongs to Flg(k).(where v is a free variable of r)."-Prop. IV, On Formally Undecidable Propositions in Principia Mathmatica and related systems.(c.1931) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Daniel Lawrence Monin Subject: Primus and Crimso Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 21:49:23 -0800 (PST) >Did the combined guitar & vocals sound at the beginning of Cage remind >anyone else of Primus' "Johnny Was A Racecar Driver"? That was my first >thought when I first listened to the disk. About two years ago I saw Primus play and before Les played "Jerry Was a Racecar Driver" he said - this song reminds me alot of King Crimson. I think it's a pretty direct take on "Elephant Talk". In other Primus shows, they have played Thela Hun Ginget and Satori in Tangiers.(only excerts of each songs) And the final song on their album Sailing the Seas of Cheese in the song "Los Bastardos" the guitar parts are first a Belew riff and then part of Lark's Tongues III. Hey Elephant talk readers: I'm I big Crimso fan but trust me buy Tribe Called Quest's album Midnight Maruaders. I don't care if you don't like rap it's one of the best albums I've ever heard. Peace out. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:33:57 -0700 From: Paul Martz Subject: VROOOM comments (number 1,894 in a series) I've read everyone else's comments on VROOOM, now here's a couple things I don't think people have mentioned. I hear comments comparing this to the 80's Crimson and the mid 70's Crimson. To me it almost sounds like a combination of the two. Does anyone else get this impression? Second, I've also heard complaints about the sound, "too noisy" or "too jumbled". I get the distinct impression this is the recording quality (or lack thereof) we're hearing. This is not a truly finished product, folks, this is merely a recording of a PRACTICE session. I expect when a real album comes out, much more attention will be given to tightening up all 6 members, putting sounds in various locations and distinct frequency ranges, miking all 10 of Trey's fingers (1/2 smile), etc. Instead of a "wall of sound", I hope we'll get a "textured wall of sound". It should definitely be worth waiting for. -paul pmartz at dsd dot es dot com Evans & Sutherland "Be bright! Feel right! Take Eno!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 02 Dec 94 17:01:39 CDT From: Eric Welsh Subject: Fripp and Fracture I have some questions that have perhaps been addressed in the past, but are important enough that I ask them again. Actually, I don't know if they've ever been asked, but considering the wide-ranging conversations on ET, I would be surprised if they hadn't. First, has anyone attempted to transcribe "Fracture"? I would really like to see a transcription of that. Also of "Suite No. 1" from G, G, Fripp. If anyone _has_ transcribed "Fracture", where could I get a copy? Now the embarassing question. I have VROOOM, I love VROOOM. But what's a "stick"? Everyone else seems to know, and I feel very inadequate, but I am not well versed in post-74 Crimson. Please help. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 02 Dec 1994 17:15:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: drum matters > Am I glad that Bruford is in the band! When I heard the news, my whole day >was spent hopping around in excitement. William "Bill" Bruford. The guy can >send my guts into a knot with a tap of a snare. He can make me have orgasms >with his perverse, strange, inventive, and yet, ever so appropriate and >perfect sense of timing. I've gotten his other albums on the strength of >such masterpieces as "Industry" (Beat), "Frame by Frame" (Discipline), >"Talking Drum" (Larks' Tongue in Aspic), etc. If I have a musical hero, he >is it - even though I play guitar. I was glad to see someone express enthusiasm for Bruford that's somewhat parallel to mine. He is my musical hero, and I can't do jack squat on the guitar, but I am a drummer, and if there's one thing I'm going to do before I die it's to meet Mr. Bruford or at least see him play live. He makes or breaks albums for me by either being on them or not being on them. For example, anything Yes did after he left in 1973 is really not of much interest to me, even though the band had only changed by one member. My only criticism of him would be his tendency to overuse his electronic percussion, but I think he's gotten over that. It was really at it's worst point on _Three Of A Perfect Pair_, which, when combined with lackluster songwriting, is what makes that album my least favorite Crimson. His (and Mastelotto's) use of electronic gagetry on VROOOM is in tasteful moderation. I have few more things to say on the subject of drumming. First of all, I have been hearing some double bass on certain songs on VROOOM, on "Thrak" and "When I Say Stop", I think. I have never known Bruford to use double bass, so is that Mastelotto doing that? Also, several people have noted that the drumming on VROOOM is not as clear or articulate as they would like it. Well, that's what happens when two drummers are going at it. I appreciate the kind of chaotic frenzy that Bill and Pat conjure up on VROOOM. I think that the percussive sounds themselves arestill clear and well-defined, but when combined with the rest of the band, it makes for a jumbled yet (IMHO) aesthetic effect. There is such a thing in drumming as a plain mess, which is a total lack of articulation altogether. This is evidenced by a great many punk and indie drummers as well as some prog drummers like Alan White. That's the sort of stuff I don't appreciate, but Bruford and Mastelotto are the exact antithesis of that, thankfully. By the way, has anyone else heard the spoken "Hit it!" in Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream, right before the first chorus? It's sort of whispered by (I assume) Belew. One more thing: it was interesting to see the equipment list of Bruford's in ET 159. Does anyone have any clue as to what he uses now? When I Say VROOOM, Cower In Fear... JP Mohan mohanjp at ac dot grin dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 10:35:43 -0500 From: AAronson at aol dot com Subject: THRAK! >> "Thrak" - ... Very much a matter of picking a thread and >> following it in the noise though. How f****ing accurate!!! Adam Aronson Systems Engineer TransNet Corp. Somerville, NJ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 12:17:29 +0600 (CST) From: Chris Pardua Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #159 Before I litter the digest with stupid questions, is there a FAQ from which I can obtain information? If so, where is it and who could send it to me? [ What a coincidence: the latest draft appears later in this issue. -- Toby ] Thanks in advance, Chris Pardua pardua at mc dot edu "Help me Obi Wan, you're my only hope" (ad nauseum)--Princess Leia "Dreamer easy in the chair that really fits you"--Jon Anderson, 1972 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 15:11:54 -0500 (EST) From: James John Hannigan Subject: Re: VROOOM thoughts Hello all: I will side with the majority of the members of elephant talk in praising the new KC EP, though I do get the feeling expressed before that this is work uncompleted. The album leaves me hanging for more, which I guess is the point. I also would agree with the poster who said the title track is in the mold of Red, but I would add that it is more dynamic and changing. No one (I don't think) has yet mentioned the unlisted track 1, which to me is a tongue-in-cheek nod to the first band. Notice the Ian McDonald-like horn sound reminiscent of Schizoid Man. Lastly, I see the album as an update of the 80s band, with little in common with any of the pre-74 stuff. Someone compared it to LTIA, whose songs I always thought were done better live (LTIA pt2, no contest-compare any live version to the studio version). I am hoping that the full-length album has more "songs" and fewer improvs (call me a heretic if you must). And yes Cage does sound like "somebody else", and Primus, as mentioned in the last digest, is as good a guess as any. Lst night I had a dream that King Crimson tickets went on sale. Looking forward to when that is a reality. JIM [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 18:42:27 -0500 From: KB305 at aol dot com Subject: My hello, Fripp's tuning, etc. Let me introduce myself: my name is Kevin Brunkhorst, and I live in suburban Miami Florida. My first exposure to KC was as a child of about 10 or 11; an older brother of a friend had _In the Court..._, and it's impression is indelible. I didn't think myself weird at all to ride my bicycle several miles to the only good record store in town to buy _LTiA_, _Starless_, or _Red_ when they originally came out, even though I was barely a teenager. I have a very vivid memory of taping a King Bisciut from 1973 containing live versions of much of (the pop songs from) _Starless_ and _LTia_, and then spending many hours trying to learn songs from those albums on my guitar. I continued to follow KC through each incarnation, through solo albums, Fripp's published discourses in various magazines, etc. My biggest regret is never having seen them live-- always I was in the wrong place (I grew up in the Midwest) or at the wrong time. I was extremely fortunate to both meet David Sylvian in NYC after _The First Day_ came out and then to see that ensemble when it played at the Beacon Theater later last year. (A brief Fripp story: After the Beacon show Fripp is quite animated, to the point where, upon hearing of the crowd assembled at the backstage door, he throws the door open with a flourish and asks, "Does anyone need me?") Mr Fripp and has various ______________ (fill in the blank) have been part of my musical life as far back as I care to remember. Many thanks to all of you for gathering... Hope I can help department: Timothy Edwards asks: >Someone asked if Belew uses a "classical" tuning or Fripp's >"standard" tuning. I don't know if Adrian uses Fripp's tuning-- I rather doubt it, considering Adrian's admittedly limited technical knowledge of music (IMHO warning: I always want to think of him as the instinctive hemisphere to complement Fripp's intellect)-- however, on _Twang Bar King, he was tuning his G string up to A-- check out some of the great cluster voicings on the songs on Side One >Does anyone know what Fripp's standard tuning consists of? Fripp's tuning is, bass to treble: C, G, D, A, E, G >Why is it structured the way it is? He claims it came to him in some sort of moment of inspiration, as I recall. As a guitarist, I can see some interesting advantages in it: (1) It makes wide intervallic leaps much easier (2) It similarly enables one to voice and construct chords in new ways (3) It of necessity forces one to abandon "thinking with your fingers", that is, playing lines from physical memory rather than from any sense of aural knowledge, or "thinking with your ears" My $ 0.02 on VROOOM: Yes, this is a "calling card". One of its purposes, intended or not, is to show the listener exactly how this particular group at this particulat time plays together. Naturally the best way to demonstrate this is in an improvisational setting, and that feel is very apparent here. KC in the 80's by Fripp's admission was less improvisational and more song-structured. I'm hoping that KC of the 90's goes back the other way, towards that moment when. as Fripp describes it, "music leans over your sholder and takes you into its confidence". The process of listening, interacting, shaping time and sound, and discovering seems essential to Fripp's (and the rest of the group's) pursuit of music as a force, as a means to achieving a goal greater than simply entertainment. Also, it rocks, and I like it like that. I just got my copy of 1999, so I'll probably spout about that soon as well. Here's to a thousand more digests, debates, discussions, dialogues, diatribes, dissention, disgust, digressions, these are words with a D this time, typing with a lit cigar in my left hand is always tough.... -Kevin Brunkhorst [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 20:38:18 -0500 From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com Subject: notes.. .. .. ... ... .. .. ... Stephen White posts: >After 2 weeks of listening, here are my comments on the 3 >CDs "1999", "1000 years", and "Vroom". >I saved Vroom until last. First into the CD player was 1999, Soundscapes. What restraint! I anticipated 1999 the most, but checked out Varoom the most. >Trey Gunn's 1000 years was next. >I play this CD the most out of the 3 CDs. Amazing..everybody was going gaga (sounds live Belew speak!) over the reunion and this guy is totally into the splinter projects! :) > Having this CD has enabled me to work out that the >intertwining textures I loved so much on "The First Day" was >Trey Gunn, not Robert Fripp as I had originally thought. I really >like the intro to "The Screen Door and the Flower Girl"! When I first heard Sunday All Over The World, I thought that Fripp had a new sound. After seeing the Robert Fripp String Quartet at the World Financial Center, NY, NY a few years ago I know better. Stephen White on Varoom: > There's textures so subtle that it takes 20 or 30 listens to > pick up what they're doing in the background. I'd like to think so too, but really that's the quality of the recording. Wait 'till these compositions get re-recorded and released on Virgin! Scooobadoo at aol dot com says: > I'd also like to express my glee that Tony Levin posted > here to report the Internet duet... how about some more >progress reports on the new album from actual band >members (Mr. Fripp, could you lower yourself to)? <-- I'd >use a "smiley" here, except that I oppose them on religious >grounds. Such as? Like what? keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) asks about Subject: Fripp and Summers >to change the talk a bit away from vrooom. this morning > was listening to I Advance masked, and was struck again >by how good the album is. as is bewitched. >i was wondering what other ETers thought of the albums (i >don't recall any discussion of them previously, though >someone like james who has gone through the archives > more recently may have noted some) I Advance Masked is a true jewel of Fripp from the early '80's. In fact more Fripp than Summers. On Bewitched, Fripp wasn't really avaliable for the sessions, that's why you hear more A.Summers. Varoom on.... David Beardsley dmb5561719 at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 09:02:42 -0700 From: eclark at MAIL dot UTEXAS dot EDU (Industry) Subject: 1999 Also did the R. Fripp String Quartet cover any King Crimson stuff on thier album "The Bridge Between". Hope these questions haven't been asked a thousand times before. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 01:08:04 -0600 (CST) From: "C. Hall" Subject: ET response -- crafty tuning In regards to the Guitar Craft tuning, in the Feb. 1989 issue of _Musician_, Fripp said: "...The new standard tuning, or the Guitar Craft standard tuning, is C-G-D-A-E-G. That is, the bottom string is two tones below the old tuning of E, the fifth string is down one tone from A to G, the fourth string is constant at D, the third string is up a tone to A, the second string is up a fourth from B to E, and the first string is up one minor third from E to G. MUSICIAN: How did you develop that tuning? FRIPP: I didn't. It presented itself. MUSICIAN: Under what circumstances? FRIPP: I was lying sweating in the the sauna of the Apple Health Spa on Bleecker Street one morning at about 10:30 in September 1983 and the tuning flew by. I let it pass and continued sweating." I haven't done much with the tuning myself. A note to experimenters, however: you will probably have to change the gauge of string on your guitar, as the average B string doesn't kindly to being tuned up a fourth higher than it was intended. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Jamie Muir - Dart Drug??? Date: Sun, 4 Dec 94 3:03:17 EST Supposedly Jamie Muir has a new solo CD called "Dart Drug" out in the UK. Can someone comment on it? Thanks, ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Anil Prasad aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jean Adams Subject: elephant talk Date: Sun, 4 Dec 94 15:13:18 EST Hello Folks, First of all I would like to say how terrific it is to hear so many people talking about King Crimson! Where I live in Michigan I can't find anybody who has the good taste to be a Crimson fan. I attended one of the first Guitar craft seminars and that was the first time I realized that there are a lot of us. What I really wanted to tell is that the video of King Crimsons' tour for Three of a Perfect Pair the japanese performance is re-released as an import on video or laser disc. I'm a new subscriber so you might already know this but if you want to get it, it's back. I had it special ordered on laser disc. It's GREAT! I saw it on TV all those years ago but didn't have the good sense to tape it. When the new tour starts I will not miss it! If anybody hears about any of the gang doing anything in michigan, indiana or ohio please drop me a line. Long Live the Crimson King Jean [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:12:22 -0800 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: FSOL + Fripp broadcast: is it being released? I found this in Intergalactic Garage's pre-order list. Anyone here know if this is the "live over the wire" broadcast they did with Robert? FSOL ISDN ltd (live + 3 studio trx) CD (UK) 12/05/94 24.95 22.50 >From an old Discipline nee' ET: > Mojo : It must have been draining on all fronts. How has it affected your > music? > > RF : It's ironic, but I've returned to it more strongly than ever. I'm mixing > the Fripp & Sylvian live album at the moment. I'm halfway through the > new one with Eno. There's an album with The Orb on the ffrr label out > soon. I'm playing live on (BBC) Radio 1 with The Future Sound of London > in May and there are some remixes of The Grid coming out soon. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:08:33 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: replies to 159 Hi all... Vrooom... first listening - it's OK. 2nd - it's more than OK. 3rd - it's good. 4th - Wow! It's really grown on me, and last Thursday I became the first DJ in New Zealand to play Thrak on air (Radio One, Otago Univesity's student radio station). Prompted a couple of calls to the station, too: "What's this? They're back? How can I get this?". Thanks to David and Jeremy, more previously unaired Fripperies will be going on air soon too, such as Cheerful Insanity and... the RFSQ... How did they get that Harpsichord like sound with the guitars on Passacaglia (sp?)??? Oh, and Jeremy... there was no comment in earlier issues on Fripp/Summers (which I feel harks back to LoG in sound), but as for Fripp's photo, Exposure was earlier, as was the booklet accompanying Young Person's Guide. Red's photo's not too bad, either. James Musical recommendation for the day: The Muttonbirds (The Muttonbirds) NZ's finest, now on tour in the US and Canada... go see! James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago. Ya jivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand pixelphone james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807 * You talk to me as if from a distance * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time, * from another time (Brian Eno) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 01:00:26 +0800 From: kbibb at arastar dot com (Ken Bibb) Subject: et-faq-0.2 [ I guess it's best to send comments on the FAQ direct to Ken, rather than this list. Thanks -- Toby ] *************************************************** * E L E P H A N T - T A L K * * The King Crimson/Robert Fripp Mailing list FAQ * *************************************************** Version 0.2 Compiled by Ken Bibb Part 1 of 1 INTRODUCTION Welcome to the Elephant-talk (King Crimson and Robert Fripp) FAQ! This FAQ has been put together in an attempt to reduce the number of repeated questions on the elephant-talk mailing list (and King Crimson newsgroup). Special thanks go to Toby Howard for setting up and running this list! Thanks also to Jeroen Schipper (I'm using the format of his Marillion FAQ for this). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: CONTENTS 0. About this FAQ 0.1 What has changed since last time? 0.2 Where can I find the latest version of this list? 0.3 Copyright issues 1. E-mail server and anonymous ftp questions 1.1 What is elephant-talk? 1.2 What is the discipline mailing list I keep hearing about? 1.3 How do I subscribe to elephant-talk? 1.4 What addresses do I need to know to use elephant-talk? 1.5 How can I get out of digest mode? 1.6 How do I unsubscribe from elephant-talk? 1.7 How do I post a message to elephant-talk? 1.8 Where can I get backissues? 1.9 Are there any other files available on arastar? 1.10 Where can I find King Crimson-related files via ftp? 1.11 Where can I find King Crimson info on the World Wide Web (WWW)? 2. General elephant-talk information 2.1 What is netiquette? 2.2 When is the new album coming out? 2.3 What do these abbreviations mean? 2.4 Where can I find King Crimson T-shirts? 2.5 Where can I find lyrics to this song? 2.6 Is there a complete disccography available? 3. King Crimson--General Information. 3.1 Who started King Crimson and when? 3.2 Where does the name King Crimson come from? 3.3 Which band members were/are in King Crimson? 3.4 How are the band lineups usually grouped? 3.5 What studio albums were released? 3.6 What is VROOOM? 3.7 When is the new album coming out? 3.8 What tracks are going to be on the new album? 4. Members past and present 4.1 Robert Fripp 4.2 Bill Bruford 4.3 Tony Levin 4.4 Trey Gunn 4.5 Pat Mastelloto 4.6 Greg Lake 4.7 Ian MacDonald 4.8 Peter Giles 4.9 Mike Giles 4.10 Keith Tippet 4.11 Pete Sinfield 4.12 Mel Collins 4.13 Gordon Haskell 4.14 Andy McCulloch 4.15 Boz Burrell 4.16 Ian Wallace 4.17 David Cross 4.18 John Wetton 4.19 Jamie Muir 4.20 Other Musicians Jon Anderson (Lizard vocals on "Prince Rupert Awakes") Nick Evans (Lizard trombone) Mark Charig (Lizard cornet) (Islands cornet) (Red cornet) Robin Miller (Lizard oboe and English horn) (Islands oboe) (Red oboe) Paulina Lucas (Islands soprano) Harry Miller (Islands string bass) 5. Robert Fripp 5.1 Do you have any biographical information on him? 5.2 What solo albums has he released? 5.3 What other groups has he recorded with? 6. Books, videos, bootlegs 6.1 What books are there on King Crimson and Robert Fripp? 6.2 What videos are there? 6.3 What's a bootleg? 6.4 How many bootlegs are there? 6.5 Where can I buy bootlegs? 7. Fanclubs 7.1 Addresses of fanclubs 8. Other bands 8.1 I like King Crimson. What other bands can you recommend? 8.2 Are there any related mailing lists? 8.2.1 stick mailing list 8.2.2 eno mailing list 8.2.3 Yes/ABWH mailing list 8.2.4 Peter Gabriel mailing list 8.2.5 David Sylvian mailing list 8.2.6 list of music mailing lists ------------------------------ Subject: 0.1 What has changed since the last version? + created the table of contents + starting to answer questions :) + first draft of sections 0, 1, 2, 3, 6, and 8. If you find any more incorrect/incomplete/just-not-there information in this list, drop me a line! The next version of this file will have more accurate change notes here (on the sections mentioned above anyways). Not much point in mentioning detailed changes when you're starting from the beginning. ------------------------------ Subject: 0.2 Where can I find the latest version of this list? This FAQ list will be posted on a monthly basis to the newsgroup news.answers and crossposted to alt.answers, rec.answers, alt.music.king-crimson, and alt.music.progressive. Posting will be done by Ken Bibb, who is currently working on the FAQ. (The following notes are based on estimates concerning the final size of this FAQ. It is currently only 1 part.) It will also be available via ftp: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu:/pub/usenet/news.answers/music/king-crimson-faq/part1 ftp://rtfm.mit.edu:/pub/usenet/news.answers/music/king-crimson-faq/part1 ftp://rtfm.mit.edu:/pub/usenet/news.answers/music/king-crimson-faq/part3 You can get the list via email by sending mail to listserv at arastar dot com with the message body: get elephant-talk faq-0.1-1 get elephant-talk faq-0.1-2 get elephant-talk faq-0.1-3 Because of the size of this file it is split into three pieces. The FAQ can be viewed on the Word Wide Web as: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/music/king-crimson-faq/faq.html This is the official and automated WWW FAQ server. To see the list in much better http format, please read subject 1.10. ------------------------------ Subject: 0.3 Copyright issues This FAQ copyright (c)1994 by Kenneth Bibb. It may be distributed on an unlimited scale, please feel free to upload it as long as it is not modified and as long as proper credit is given. If you plan to use this FAQ for commercial purposes, Please ask for permission first. ------------------------------ Subject: 1.1 What is elephant-talk? Elephant Talk is an Internet digest for the discussion of King Crimson, Robert Fripp, and related bands. The mailing list was started with 24 subscribers on August 19, 1991 by Toby Howard who continues working on it today. Running mailing lists is time-consuming, so Ken Bibb helps Toby with the US distribution of the digest while Toby handles the rest of the world. The list has grown to over 1000 subscribers with more subscribers joining daily. It is usually sent out weekly. ------------------------------ Subject: 1.2 What is the Discipline mailing list I keep hearing about? Elephant Talk was called "Discipline" until issue 148 when the name was changed. As Toby explains in issue 148: "The name 'Discipline' seemed right at the time things were starting, but times change. There are 3 reasons for today's change: 1. For the last year or so there has been some increasing confusion, with various people thinking there is a formal connection between 'Discipline', Robert Fripp's trademarked record label and music publishing company, and 'Discipline' the Internet Newsletter. Although the newsletter supports Robert's work however it can, there is no direct formal or legal connection, but it is not unreasonable to assume that there is, since the names are the same. 2. Some time ago Robert suggested changing the name of the newsletter, because in his view although the term 'discipline' rightly reflects his approach to his work, it is however not a name that expresses the identity of the Internet list, which is a thing with a life of its own. I believe our new name is far more appropriate. 3. There has also been some confusion of a more -- shall we say -- 'intimate' nature, with requests relating to 'discipline' of a non-musical recreational kind... ahem." ------------------------------ Subject: 1.2 How do I subscribe to Elephant-talk? If you are *NOT* in the USA email toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk with a message requesting a subscription. For example: May I subscribe to Elephant Talk? If you are in the USA email elephant-talk-request at arastar dot com with a message stating that you'd like to subscribe. For example: subscribe elephant-talk My Name (Actually, you can use any message you want--subscriptions are dealt with manually by humans, not mailbots.) ------------------------------ Subject: 1.3 What addresses do I need to know to use elephant-talk? Besides the subscription address, there are also: 1. toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk - this is where you send messages intended for the mailing list. This is also where you send mail when you're having problems receiving the digest and you aren't in the USA. 2. elephant-talk at arastar dot com - an alternative way of reaching Toby. 3. listserv at arastar dot com - A mailbot which can send you backissues, discographies, copies of the FAQ, and whatever other files are made available. 4. kbibb at arastar dot com - Email Ken when you have problems with the listserv mailbot or if you're having problems receiving the digest and you're a USA subscriber. If you're not sure which list you're on, contact kbibb at arastar dot com and he'll try to sort things out. ------------------------------ Subject: 1.4 How can I get out of digest mode? You can't. Elephant-talk is only available in digest mode. ------------------------------ Subject: 1.5 How do I unsubscribe from elephant-talk? If you are *NOT* a USA subscriber, email toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk and request that you be removed from the mailing list. If you *ARE* a USA subscriber, email kbibb at arastar dot com and request that you be removed from the mailing list. If you aren't sure which list you're on, contact kbibb at arastar dot com and ask for clarification. ------------------------------ Subject: 1.6 How do I post a message to elephant-talk? Email toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk or elephant-talk at arastar dot com with your message included. Or you can reply to the digest that you received (please change the subject line to something appropriate if you can). Your message will be sent to Toby. Your message will probably be in the next digest although it may appear in the issue following. Please read section 2.1 for some general guides for posting to the mailinglist. ------------------------------ Subject: 1.7 Where can I get backissues? Back issues are available via FTP and email. FTP: The Elephant Talk archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu in /pub/music/lists/elephant-talk and recent issues are on ftp.cs.man.ac.uk in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL: The Elephant Talk archives are also available via email. To get a listing of the archive contents send: index discipline index elephant-talk to listserv at arastar dot com and you'll receive a list of the files available from those two archives. To retrieve specific files (like Discipline #145 or Elephant Talk #148): get discipline discipline.145 get elephant-talk et.148 to listserv at arastar dot com ------------------------------ Subject: 1.8 Are there any other files available on arastar? Yes, there are other files available. The best way to find out what's available is to ask the listserv mailbot by sending: index elephant-talk to listserv at arastar dot com (new stuff will probably not be showing up in the discipline archive). Some files that might be of interest: Description Command ----------- ------- Possible Productions info get elephant-talk pp.mail-order.941008 Progressive Rock Mail Order Sources get ph7 faq2.mailorder ------------------------------ Subject: 1.9 Where can I find King Crimson-related files via ftp? Several Marillion and Fish related files can be found at the ftp site: ftp://ftp.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4). This is an anonymous ftp site; this means you use "anonymous" as a login, and your own email address as the password. The directory to look for is: ftp://ftp.uwp.edu:/pub/music/lists/marillion/ or ftp://ftp.uwp.edu:/pub/music/artists/m/marillion/ Use dir to see the files available. All files are compressed with Unix compress(1), which adds the .Z extension to the files. Use uncompress to restore the files. uncompress also exists for other operating systems including OS/2 and DOS. ------------------------------ Subject: 1.10 Where can I find King Crimson info on the World Wide Web (WWW)? The FAQ is discussed in question 0.2. The general Elephant Talk WWW Page is at: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html ------------------------------ Subject: 2.1 What is netiquette? Netiquette is general guidelines on good behavior while using the Internet. Everybody on Elephant Talk is kindly asked to keep the following in mind: - Signatures: 4 or 5 lines will suffice. Longer signatures bother people. - Posting personal messages: Keep in mind that whatever message you post will be sent to over 1000 around the world. Posting personal messages is not appreciated and should be avoided whenever possible. - Posting test messages: Don't! Messages like "Is this list still running?" are very irritating to others. If the list is still running and you don't receive any mail, you're probably not subscribed (anymore). Try resubscribing or contacting the listowner. Remember, there is always a chance the list may be temporarily down. - Quoting: When quoting someone else's message, quote only the part to which you are responding. Leave out the rest (like the signature of the other person), as it is a waste of bandwidth and annoys other people. Please keep these basic guidelines in mind when posting to this list. (and any other mailing list or UseNet as well). ------------------------------ Subject: 2.2 When is the new album coming out? Soon :) (The band is currently writing and recording material, so it will probably not be out until Autumn 1995, imho.) ------------------------------ Subject: 2.3 What do these abbreviations mean? Band related abbreviations ---- ------- ------------- GGF Giles, Giles, and Fripp tCIoGGF "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles, and Fripp" KC King Crimson ItCotCK "In the Court of the Crimson King" ItWoP "In the Wake of Poseidon" LtiA "Lark's Tongue in Aspic" SaBB "Starless and Bible Black" ToaPP "Three of a Perfect Pair" FbF "Frame by Frame" tGD "The Great Deceiver" Crimso Fan of King Crimson GC Guitar Craft it isn't suggested that you abbreviate the musicians names: it's clearer to use surnames or given names (depending on context). Internet related Abbreviations -------- ------- ------------- imho In My Humble Opinion rofl Rolling on the Floor Laughing ^_^ fj.smiley :) net.smiley fwiw For what it's worth ------------------------------ Subject: 2.4 Where can I find King Crimson T-shirts? In your local T-shirt store? Unless you have T-shirt stores like the ones here. In that case, you can purchase them through Possible Productions (mail/fax info provided below in question 3.6). ------------------------------ Subject: 2.5 Where can I find lyrics to this song? Depends on what song you're looking for lyrics to :) Many lyrics are available on ftp.uwp.edu, but that site is usually hard to connect so you might want to try the mirror sites. Lyrics should also (sooner than later) be available on the arastar.com elephant-talk archive (to see the contents of the full archive (both discipline and elephant-talk you can send index discipline index elephant-talk to listserv at arastar dot com and you should receive a full listing of the King Crimson archives). If you'd rather not have the list sent to you, you can bug the archive-keeper by sending mail to kbibb at arastar dot com and maybe he will be nudged into providing the file that you want. ------------------------------ Subject: 2.6 Is there a complete discography available? There's an incomplete one available which will (hopefully) eventually become complete. It can be retrieved by email by sending: get elephant-talk discog The version in the archive is 1.8a--I'm seeing if there's a newer version right now. (Yes, this very instant as I type this.) ------------------------------ Subject: 3.1 Who started King Crimson and when? King Crimson was formed on November 15, 1968 by Giles, Giles, and Fripp. The original line-up was: Michael Giles (drums), Robert Fripp (guitar), Greg Lake (vocals, bass), Peter Sinfield (lyrics), Ian McDonald (woodwinds, guitar, keyboards). ------------------------------ Subject: 3.2 Where does the name King Crimson come from? "Pete Sinfield was trying to invent a synonym for Beelzebub". --Fripp Rolling Stone 296 (July 26 1979): 16. ------------------------------ Subject: 3.3 Which band members were/are in King Crimson? The current line up is a double trio: 3E <-- ASCII attempt of new logo :) KING CRIMSON Robert Fripp Adrian Belew (guitar) (guitar,voice,words) Trey Gunn Tony Levin (stick) (basses and stick) Pat Mastelotto Bill Bruford acoustic and electronic percussions Past line ups will be discussed elsewhere. ------------------------------ Subject: 3.4 How are the band lineups usually grouped? I prefer the following arrangement: 1 "Early" In the Court of the Crimson King, In the Wake of Poseidon,Lizard,Islands 2 "Classic"/"Mid" Larks' Tongue in Aspic,Starless and Bible Black,Red 3 "Modern" Discipline,Beat,Three of a Perfect Pair 4 "Postmodern" VROOOM (EP) Tamm splits the records up slightly differently (splitting up "Early") (Tamm Mark V is hypothetical since Tamm's book came out before the EP.) Tamm Mark I In the Court of the Crimson King Tamm Mark II In the Wake of Poseidon,Lizard,Islands,Earthbound (live) Tamm Mark III Larks' Tongue in Aspic,Starless and Bible Black,Red,USA (live) Tamm Mark IV Discipline,Beat,Three of a Perfect Pair Tamm Mark V VROOOM (EP) ------------------------------ Subject: 3.5 What are the (major) official releases? For a full list refer to the discography. The short list is: In the Court of the Crimson King In the Wake of Poseidon Lizard Islands Earthbound (live) Larks' Tongue in Aspic Starless and Bible Black Red USA (live) The Young Person's Guide to King Crimson (compilation) Discipline Beat Three of a Perfect Pair The Abbreviated King Crimson (compilation) Frame by Frame (Boxed Set) Great Deceiver (Boxed Set) VROOOM (EP) ------------------------------ Subject: 3.6 What is VROOOM? VROOOM is an EP recorded during reheasals early in '94 by the new incarnation of King Crimson. It's 31 minutes and 4 seconds long and has the following tracks: VROOOM Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream Cage Thrak When I Say Stop, Continue One Time Fripp describes it as: "This was recorded between May 2-7th, 1994 during the first full rehearsals of this, the double trio formation of King Crimson. We present VROOOM as a calling card, rather than a love letter, to those generous enough to give it ears." (from VROOOM) And on the topic of love letters: "Studio and live are two worlds. Would you, the audience, prefer to have a love letter or a hot date?" (from the *excellent* booklet that accompanied "Frame by Frame") If VROOOM is not available near you, you can order it from a number of sources including: South America Possible Productions c/o Hernan Nunez, Avenue Santa Fe 3044-1 1425 Capital Federal Buenos Aires, Argentina 010-54-1-9211372:fax USA Possible Productions c/o Mark Perry 351 Magnolia Ave Long Beach, California 90802 (310) 491-1945 :fax Rest of the World Discipline Global Mobile PO Box 1533 Salisbury, Wiltshire SP5 5ER (44) 722 781042: fax ------------------------------ Subject: 3.7 When is the new album coming out? Not as soon as the fans would like, too soon for the musicians... (In other words, there isn't any reliable estimate yet.) ------------------------------ Subject: 3.8 What tracks are going to be on the new album? The stick duet "Internet" might be on it. As information on other tracks appears I'll include it here. ------------------------------ Subject: 6. Books, videos, bootlegs Subject: 6.1 What books are there on King Crimson and Robert Fripp? Tamm, Eric, "Robert Fripp: from King Crimson to Guitar Craft", faber & faber, 1990. ISBN 0-571-12912-9 (if you have any other recommendations, please send them to: kbibb at arastar dot com) ------------------------------ Subject: 6.3 What's a bootleg? A bootleg is a recording of dubious legal origin. They are usually live recordings which were done without the band's knowledge. They also don't provide the band with any income and undermine the sales of legitimate live recordings. But they are of interest to those who would like an approximation of what the band sounds like live. ------------------------------ Subject: 6.4 How many bootlegs are there? Who knows? There are a lot of them. If you'd like to recommend some, please send your suggestions to kbibb at arastar dot com ------------------------------ Subject: 8. Other bands Subject: 8.1 I like King Crimson. What other bands can you recommend? It depends on what period of King Crimson you like (or dislike). You can start looking for solo albums by members of the period that you like and you can look for sessions, too. (This information will eventually be in the official Elephant Talk discography.) Some bands which fall into these categories include: "Early": McDonald & Giles (eponymous) "Classic": UK (eponymous) "Modern": Adrian Belew "Desire of the Rhino King" "Postmodern": Sunday All Over the World (eponymous) Some bands that have King Crimson influences include: Anglagard Anekdoten Bi Kyo Ran Primus ------------------------------ Subject: 8.2 Are there any related mailing lists? The following entries are from Myra Wong's "List of Music Mailing Lists" version 1.40 (Oct 23, 1994). Information on retrieving this list are provided below. The following lists may be of interest to you depending on what aspects of King Crimson you find attractive. If you don't see anything interesting in the following suggestions, please retrieve Myra's list--there are a number of other lists which may be of interest. ------------------------------ Subject: 8.2.1 stick mailing list CHAPMAN STICK (R) Touch-Playable Musical Instrument sticky-request at cs dot nott dot ac dot uk "Fingerboard" is for Stick-players and other musicians (guitarists, bass-players, etc) who play by tapping techniques. Stick is a 10 or 12-string instrument covering the range of bass and guitar, played simultaneously with both hands. The mailing list covers artists, techniques, musicianship, and sources. It is not affiliated in any way with Stick Enterprises, Inc. ------------------------------ Subject: 8.2.2 eno mailing list ENO, BRIAN Eno-L-Request at noc dot pue dot udlap dot mx A list devoted To Brian Eno and people related to him (Jon Hassell, Harold Budd, Roger Eno, etc.). Mngr: Alexander Rubli ------------------------------ Subject: 8.2.3 Yes/ABWH mailing list YES (Notes From The Edge) nfte at sol dot cms dot uncwil dot edu Discussion of Yes, Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe and related musicians. Editor: Jeff Hunnicutt Associate Editor: Mike Tiano ------------------------------ Subject: 8.2.4 GABRIEL, PETER listserv at listserv dot acns dot nwu dot edu In the body of your message, to subscribe, send: sub gabriel {your real name} then, to receive digests instead of bounce mail: set gabriel mail digest Mngr: Joe Germuska GABRIEL, PETER - Usenet newsgroup alt.music peter-gabriel ------------------------------ Subject: 8.2.5 David Sylvian SYLVIAN, DAVID listserv at gu dot uwa dot edu dot au Covers the works of Japan, David Sylvian and all other solo projects. To subscribe send a message with 'subscribe sylvian '. Mngr: John West ------------------------------ Subject: 8.2.6 list of music mailing lists If you would like the latest version of this list e-mailed to you at any time, please send your request to and be patient. Requests will be processed manually, daily. Please include "LoMML" or "List of Music Mailing Lists" in your request; there is not a distribution list for this document, please do not ask to "subscribe". If possible, please try to get this document by another means first. This document is also be available via finger mkwong at sdcc13 dot ucsd dot edu This document is also available via anonymous FTP at: server.berkeley.edu /pub/misc/lomml ftp.uwp.edu /pub/incoming/misc.music.files/lomml OR /pub/music/misc/mail.lists.music [Note: ftp.uwp.edu can be very hard to connect with so please use the berkeley site instead of uwp--kbibb] This document is also available on the World Wide Web (WWW) at: http://server.berkeley.edu/~ayukawa/lomml.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 08:48:12 -0500 From: BWorkman at aol dot com Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #159 I realize that this question has probably been answered before, but I couldn't find it. When the new (full) King Crimson album comes out, will it have all of the tracks of Vrooom, plus some others, or will it be different tracks? I'm having a little trouble finding it and if patience will bring all of these tracks I will wait for the album. Otherwise I will have to try harder to find Vrooom. Thanks, Brian Workman BWorkman at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 5 Dec 94 17:56:07 GMT From: Tony Brown Subject: Babble...burble...banter... Hello all. After a long lurk, I'd thought I'd throw my 2ps worth into the ring. First; VROOM. I've had this for three weeks now, so I think my opinion has settled down. On first listening (early in the morning, before work) I was disappointed. I thought it was a OTT-rehash of Red/Fracture et al, and had expected more 80s polythymic-style stuff. On second listen, I thought 'aaaaaarghh' and 'waaaahhhhh', and that's pretty much how it's stayed. Brilliant stuff. Great, Soouper. I scribbled down some random notes at the time (with the intention of posting a review, but you know how things go)...."crashing sheets of industrial-strength noise" seems to be the summation... I've always loved the sensation of being bludgeoned/crushed that the best KC can induce. And One Time is just unspeakably, shimmeringly, gorgeous (the intro still makes me grin - it reminds me of the naff nightclub duo at the end of 'Alas Smith and Jones'). If this is the calling card I'll make sure I'm sat in a cold bath for the love letter. A friend of mine bought it and took it to work (they have a rest room with hi-fi, where they take turns to play stuff). It cleared the room within five minutes :) - must be a good sign!!. Second: 'Cage' I find to be extremely reminiscent of 'Day Job' off 'No World Order' by Todd Rundgren. I mention this because of the Primus reference in #159. Third: Re: the name VROOOM. Have any conspiracy theorists out there considered that backwards it spells MOOOVR?, or is an anagram of ROMOOV? :). Fourth: David Cross has _three_ albums out now??. I've got the first (love it), and saw him play twice in Swindon in 89/90. Both excellent performances (the second in front of six, yes _six_ people - this is Swindon we're talking about here, remember), and the whole band were friendly and approchable. I shall be on the lookout. And just to give Toby something to do....thanks for all your work that makes ET happen. It's consistently excellent!. [Thanks Tony -- Toby] Tony [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: STILLMOVIN at eworld dot com Date: Mon, 05 Dec 94 10:30:25 PST Subject: Ending Echo I just found this great newletter about Krimson and it's great to see people are following the band so closely. I have a question that's been on my mind for ten years(?). At the end of Elephant Talk Belew's screaming guitar seems to echo...not really echo though. It's like the song went on about a second longer and then they did the ending again but the recording machine didn't wipe out the original ending. Someone told my it could have been that the master tape was wrapped wrong and it left an imprint in the blank space. I know this is stupid thing to puzzle about for a decade but... I'm going to Tower Records on Sunset Blvd today to pick up VROOM. Send response to STILLMOVIN at AOL dot COM [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 15:27:51 -0500 (EST) From: James John Hannigan Subject: Re:VROOOM title track Hello again: I would like to make a correction to a post I sent on Sat Dec. 3 in regards to the VROOOM title track: I was speaking about the opening unlisted track #1 sounding to me like the 1969 group (in particular a certain Ian McDonald-like horn sound coming from the guitar(s)), when in fact what I was talking about is the initial crashing descending notes of track #2 on the CD. Sorry for any confusion. JIM [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: GeorgeWad at eworld dot com Date: Mon, 05 Dec 94 14:52:08 PST Subject: Crimson sound in Primus >Did the combined guitar & vocals sound at the beginning of Cage remind >anyone else of Primus' "Johnny Was A Racecar Driver"? That was my first >thought when I first listened to the disk. > >Chris >fischer at falcons dot ent dot ohiou dot edu I guess this would be called a circular reference, since many of my friends (here in Bay-Area-Primus land) feel that "Jerry Was A Racecar Driver" sounds like the opening to "Elephant Talk". I'll listen to it (Cage) again with this in mind. What I'd really like is to see Primus open for the scarlet monarch. -George dig me...but don't...bury me [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Maclennan Subject: Gitbox Rebellion - New album! Date: 06 Dec 1994 13:31:14 +1200 Further to my recent posting about the Gitbox Rebellion album "Pesky Digits", they have just released a second, entitled "Touchwood". Here's a quote from a review in NZ style comic "Pavement": "'Touchwood' sees Gitbox reduced to three members. It's a much more mature work than its predecessor, where journeys take over from investigative outings. Added to the mix this time are flute, cello and violin.... ".... fantastical soundscapes where a sweet soothing melody can turn into chaotic haywire before crawling out again in a new form. "'Touchwood' is a warm, beautifully crafted recording with a plethora of sumptuous aural paintings to be immersed in. It should impress every sector of music lover." Well, my curiosity's piqued! I'll check it out at the earliest opportunity (haven't seen it in the shops yet). -- David Maclennan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Baires at mafac1 dot satlink dot net Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:36:15 Subject: Fripp's activities in 1995 I read in yesterday's local newspaper that Fripp will be playing in Argentina next March 1995 AND King Crimson will be playing in Argentina next November 1995.- Since I was lucky enough to be at Fripp Soundscapes and KC Vrooom presentation last October,both in Argentina during 1994,I look forward to these events.- Perhaps some ETalkers would consider a trip down here next year? Alberto Guido Chester e-mail Baires at mafac1 dot satlink dot net fax (541)581-0702 Argentina [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 05 Dec 1994 15:46:52 -0500 (EST) From: STU3922 at grog dot ric dot edu Subject: "Johnny was a Racecar Driver"? For an extended period, I managed to read editions of Elephant Talk as they came without responding with my usual babble. However, once I opened my proverbial mouth, I've found it very difficult to close it again. Such is the price of having an overactive young mind. At any rate, I'm just going to respond to bits and squiggles that caught my attention from ET #159 in no particular order. It's a damned shame that such fine music such as that contained on Mr. Gunn's _1,000 Years_ disc is so often unavailable to the general public. I was fortunate enough to find the CD several months ago during a casual browse through a Tower Records in Boston. (Incidentally, I picked up _The Bridge Between_ during the same visit.) I've done my best to badger several Rhode Island music retailers to carry more quality music such as Trey Gunn's, and my requests have yielded varying levels of success. In some smaller specialty shops in the Providence area, they seem willing to carry anything that one can speaking intelligently and enthusiastically about, but it seems like most other places local to me are unwilling to carry anything that isn't grunge-pop alternateen fare. It's rather disgraceful, I think. Personally, I have reasonable confidence that I'll be able to satisfy my musical needs through mail-order, but this isn't the most common way in which CDs are sold. I do what I can to encourage the retailers I meet, but it does seem to be an uphill struggle. Perhaps, Mr. Gunn, you could sell more albums if you teamed up with the surviving members of Nirvana and produced a Neil Young tribute album. I'm told that Neil Young is very hip these days. I'm kidding, of course. Please don't send any mercenary types after me. Oh, and I recall someone mentioning that they saw a resemblance between "Jerry was a Racecar Driver" by Primus (not "Johnny") and KC's "Cage". I don't think so. The speed is right, but the content is completely different. Incidentally, I've noticed that on the same album (_Sailing the Seas of Cheese_)there's actually a bit stolen from "Larks' Tongues in Aspic: Part One". I can't be absolutely certain, but I think that near the end of "Los Bastardos" there's the transitional guitar bit from about five minutes into "LTiA 1". Check it out, if you're willing. It's a rather chaotic piece, so I could be mistaken. One more thing: if Robert Fripp is playing shows I want to know about it! I've missed him all my life, and I don't intend to go on missing him! -K.C. Bennett (stu3922 at ric dot edu) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Baires at mafac1 dot satlink dot net Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 10:15:28 Subject: SAI BABA In the beautiful booklet accompanying DAMAGE ,a page cites a paragraph written by SAI BABA,the worshipped human GOD from India.-Can anyone tell if either Fripp or Sylvian have an affiliation with this belief or any other comment on this?? Alberto Guido Chester e-mail Baires at mafac1 dot satlink dot net fax (541)581-0702 Argentina [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 07 Dec 94 12:08:59 EST From: astarling at octrf dot on dot ca Subject: Possible Bankruptcy in Canada Hello, My signed copy of 'Vrooom' arrived at the post office recently along with the poster. It's great that Possible Productions is there to provide hard-to-find material for everyone, although 'Vrooom' is readily available in Toronto. I'm thinking more in terms of T-shirts and signed albums, and for the poor fan in some small town it's great to have access to the material. However, a word of warning, particularly to those individuals with a currency that doesn't match-up well with the U.S. dollar. After paying for the disc and poster, plus registered mail, then converting to U.S. funds, then having to pick up the packages at the post office, and being slapped with a duty charge of about $7.50 Cdn. from my wonderful government (the actual tax wasn't so bad, it was the $5 handling charge that got me), I ended up paying just short of $50 Cdn.! Yikes, are the silver signatures (yeah, they actually used a silver marker pen) of the band worth paying about twice what the disc alone would have cost? Well, it's up to you. I am questioning my purchase as I gaze into the abyss of my wallet. Perhaps I should have just gone to the local record store. Speaking of which, Trey, I saw your album in Penguin Music here in Toronto, prominently displayed on the wall beside all the other 'new' releases. A good sign. Regarding 'Vrooom': I've been expecting miracles, seeing as most of you have been raving about it, and only a handful of mild dissenters have come forth. My feeling is that 'Vrooom' is very good, however, it didn't leave me with the same feeling which 'Discipline' did. You know - the feeling of completeness (I know, I know, it's a calling card not a love letter), going from aggression, to peaceful introspection, to Belew's 'When who should appear but two policemen!' 'Discipline' is a superior piece of music, period. So it becomes a standard by which other work is judged. I'm going to keep listening to 'Vrooom'. I have a feeling that it will grow on me, and perhaps it will rank up with the best. But for now it seems to be merely a great effort, which doesn't reach the pinnacle. I hope that the subsequent album does. Regards, Andrew Starling astarling at octrf dot on dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 09 Dec 1994 10:45:24 +1000 From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) Subject: photos/essential F&E alternatives mea culpa. in my last post re I advance mask i made some totally wrong comments re photos. a) exposure with its photo (cover and included postcard) was before IAM - its all so long ago that i get the sequences wrong - should have checked BEFORE posting, but im lazee. b) more importantly the eno/fripp releases both had frippphotos. for those who, like me, have held out on buying the essential fripp and eno because they own most of it, i noticed in a record shop yetseday that either the third or fourth History of Ambient (3rd i think) from virgin has one of the previously unrelesed tracks which were on the cd (no chance of remembering which number). [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 10:54:55 +0000 From: E dot Roos at BURO dot kun dot nl Subject: Vrooom in top 10 Hi all! The Dutch "Sharp Edge Rock CD top 10" (an "alternative" chart) of this week : This Last week week 1 (4) Portishead - Dummy 2 (3) Smashing Pumpkins - Pisces iscariot 3 (1) Claw Boys Claw - Nipple | \|/ 10 (-) King Crimson - VROOOM You have a hit record in Holland Mr. Fripp cs.! I'll drink to that. Cheers! Hope to see/hear you overhere next year. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "YOG SOTHOTH" Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 09:26:37 GMT0BST Subject: HAPPY CHRISTMAS Hi all KCers and Elephant Talkers, A premature Christmas greeting to all, Best Wishes in the NEW ERA, The Captain [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ----- ADMINISTRIVIA ----- ** POSTINGS Please send all postings to Toby Howard, at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** SUBSCRIPTIONS/ADDRESS CHANGES USA subscribers: please contact Ken Bibb at elephant-talk-request at arastar dot com. Non-USA subscribers: please contact Toby Howard, at elephant-talk-request at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** ARCHIVES FTP: The Elephant Talk archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/elephant-talk, and recent issues on ftp.cs.man.ac.uk in /pub/toby/elephant-talk. EMAIL: The Elephant Talk archives are also available via email. To get an index send: "index discipline" "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com and to retrieve files (in this example, the discography, discipline #63 and elephant-talk #148) send: "get discipline discog" "get discipline discipline.63" "get elephant-talk et.148" to listserv at arastar dot com (send email to kbibb at arastar dot com if you encounter problems with the email archives). ** WWW http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html ** LEGALESE The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]