From elephant-talk at arastar dot comFri Dec 2 15:15:21 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:03:36 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v94 #159 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 159, Friday, 2 December 1994 Today's Topics: Vroom, Soundscapes, and 1000 years re: Trey Gunn's message in ET #158 Elephant-talk digest v94 #158 Robert Fripp touring K.C. Equipment list, circa 1982 Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 ... VROOOM, Discipline's offerings Fripp on Wetton's album? Re: Elephant Talk #158 Re: Getting hold of VROOOM Possible origin of 'VROOOM' title? Fripp's Standard Tuning/VROOM David Cross Elephant talk _VROOOM_ Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #156 Re: Elephant Talk #158 Elephant-talk digest v94 Belew acoustic / psychodots Fripp/Eno discog info Primus sound in Cage thanks More on "Islands" and Gordon Haskell Fripp and Summers Re: Elephant Talk #158 Re: E.T. CD distribution and a Question for Mr.Gunn Gitbox Rebellion album VROOOM in-depth title analysis of VROOOM [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 13:58:50 GMT From: Toby Howard Subject: ET Hi everyone, I thought you might like to know the latest statistics for the list. As of today, we have 1071 subscribers in total, from 30 countries. Thanks to everyone for making Elephant Talk such a success, and special thanks for your personal kind comments, which I usually edit out of posts to protect my modesty :-) Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 10:43:34 +1030 (CST) From: Stephen White Subject: Vroom, Soundscapes, and 1000 years After 2 weeks of listening, here are my comments on the 3 CDs "1999", "1000 years", and "Vroom". I saved Vroom until last. First into the CD player was 1999, Soundscapes. Certainly interesting. Impressive enough knowing that it's one guitar, amazing knowing that it's been done live with just a few repeat effects. I stick it on every now and then when I'm feeling introspective. Trey Gunn's 1000 years was next. I play this CD the most out of the 3 CDs. The drumming and stick playing go very well together. I like the drumming a lot. Precise and good sub-rhythms. Having this CD has enabled me to work out that the intertwining textures I loved so much on "The First Day" was Trey Gunn, not Robert Fripp as I had originally thought. I really like the intro to "The Screen Door and the Flower Girl"! Wish the playing was more adventurous, but still a great CD. Vroom. Well, contrary to most of you, I very much prefer the 80s Crimson. 80s Crimson definitely isn't "poppy". It's amazingly intense, with over the top complexity (much more so than earlier Crimson) and leaves your average listener reeling and saying "eh? whassat?". It doesn't get its power from smearing all the instruments together in a frenzy of volume and noise. There's textures so subtle that it takes 20 or 30 listens to pick up what they're doing in the background. Am I glad that Bruford is in the band! When I heard the news, my whole day was spent hopping around in excitement. William "Bill" Bruford. The guy can send my guts into a knot with a tap of a snare. He can make me have orgasms with his perverse, strange, inventive, and yet, ever so appropriate and perfect sense of timing. I've gotten his other albums on the strength of such masterpieces as "Industry" (Beat), "Frame by Frame" (Discipline), "Talking Drum" (Larks' Tongue in Aspic), etc. If I have a musical hero, he is it - even though I play guitar. I put the Vroom CD in. "Vroom" - Oooh. Yum. Icecream with nails. A bit too steady though. I want to hear them get weird, like "Neurotica" or "Indiscipline". "Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream". Filled in the gap left by Vroom. Still not a classic Crimson, but still better than anything I've heard for a while. "Cage" - ah, NOW we're talking! Weird, strange, and most definitely doing something new. Pity it's so short since I like it so much. "Thrak" - brilliant. This is what I was hoping to hear when I bought the much over-rated Nine Inch Nail's, and instead I got Trent Reznor's boring little tantrums. Very much a matter of picking a thread and following it in the noise though. "WISSC" - unremarkable as a song, good as an improvisation. "One Time" - great, especially since I can hear Trey Gunn for the first time (I think). Summary; "Cage" is the best, followed by "Thrak". Criticism of Vroom - the instruments tend to smear together into a hash when the music gets "intense", rather than remaining clear like in 80s Crimson. I'd really like to hear more clear definition. Also, the drumming doesn't have the clear "snap" that was in the 80s Crimson, tending to be more of a "thud thud". Contrast the drum sound in "One Time" (thud thud) with the more open sound of the drums in "Thela Hun Ginjeet". I don't play drums, but it sounds as if the "thud thud" sound is produced by hitting the drumskin while it's muted which does achieve the short sound but it's dull in tone. Perhaps muting after the drumstick has rebounded would produce a clearer tone? I can't hear Trey Gunn. Tony Levin doesn't seem to have much scope for his personal magic; he seems to have the role of "time-keeper". Positive aspects - the range of sounds has been upped, the complexity is still there. I like Belew's new voice though his old voice would be more fitted for some heavier sections (yes, I bought a lot of his albums too). The forage into Industrial type sounds is interesting since smooth and banal sounds seem to be regaining ground in popular industrial (the band "Helmet" for example). It's got Robert Fripp who is especially brilliant in music partnerships - one such being with Adrian Belew. It's strange though. I can hear other songs in each of these songs. It's as if they started off with an existing song and then Crimsonised and improvised on top. For example, "Vroom" sounds like it's based on Love and Rocket's song "So Alive" at the start. I could name a few other songs (like "Evolution" by the Models) but I'll leave it up to your ears. :) After I've listened to Vroom, I don't feel as though the music was finished, and I'm left thinking that there are some loose ends. It is definitely a calling card, but what an impressive one. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 16:40:35 -0800 From: tntmusic at halcyon dot halcyon dot com (Kevin J. O'Conner dba Tinty Music) Subject: re: Trey Gunn's message in ET #158 In ET #158, Trey Gunn wrote: >this may sound small and insignificant but,....... We are having a >terribly difficult time getting and keeping my album, "1000 Years", (not to >mention the California Guitar Trio) in stores. I am, frankly, at my wits >end. > >I would strongly encourage those of you who have an interest -- to go to >your local record stores and ask for these CD's as if you might buy >them. Especially in America. Only if there is a voiced demand can we >continue to deliver (and I mean literally "deliver") these types of >records. If it makes you feel any better, I bought my copy of "1000 Years" at the Tower Records store in Seattle's U-District, and have also seen it at the main store near Seattle Center... Kevin Kevin J. O'Conner d.b.a. Tinty Music P.O. Box 85363 Seattle, WA 98145-1363 vox: (206) 632-9369 fax/modem: (206) 545-2868 e-mail: tntmusic at halcyon dot com tintmeister at pan dot com k dot oconner at genie dot geis dot com zzs32874 at pcvan dot or dot jp. "Spoons are one thing, but I'm asking you again: please don't throw forks at me." - Binky [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: r dot dittmeier at genie dot geis dot com Date: Sat, 26 Nov 94 02:53:00 UTC Subject: Elephant-talk digest v94 #158 People have been speculating on the meaning of the title Vrooom, but no one has yet mentioned what seems to me the most obvious meaning, which I "flashed on" as soon as I first heard the title: The word "Vroom" is associated with the sound of an engine revving up. And revving up the engines is pretty much what the band is doing with this release. Just add another O to extend the sound a little longer. Vrooom... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: bjacobs at mintaka dot SDSU dot Edu (William J Jacobs) Subject: Robert Fripp touring Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 02:54:12 -0800 (PST) I read in a local paper yesterday that Robert Fripp had just been booked at a local venue for a concert in January. Does anybody know what sort of tour this is? Is he playing Frippertronics, or Crafty Guitar stuff, or King Crimson material or what? Has anyone heard of any other play dates? Bill jacobs [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 05:32:00 -0500 From: kikor at interaccess dot com (Gabble Ratchet) Subject: K.C. Equipment list, circa 1982 Hi all...VROOMing along nicely...'gratz to Dicipline Records Mail Order for their promtness. With all of the recent musings regarding RF/Crimson's equipment, I thought I'd share the following info: On the back of a 1982-era bootleg called "Indisciple Mining Rocks", there is a list of what's purported to be the band's equipment at the time...here we go... Adrian - Roland GR-300 Electronic guitar w/ synth unit into Roland JC-300 amp; Fender Strat w/ built in 9 volt preamp and Ibenez Blazer thru custom switching panel wired to EH Graphic-Fuzz, EH Big Muff (God's own distortion box! - frank), EH Poly-Chorus, Roland DC-30 Analog chorus/echo, MXR Graphic EQ, C-Custom patch panel, Goodrich volume pedal into Roland JC-120 amp; Dean Markely Strings - .010 .012 .016 .024 .032 .036 RF - Roland GR-300 Electronic guitar w/ synth unit and Roland Saturn 09 keyboard into Roland JC-300 amp; straight guitar signal thru Foxx Tone Machine, Pete Cornish custom "Fripperboard" w/volume pedal & EH Big Muff & Cry Baby Wah, A/DA Harmony Synth., proprietary pedalboard w/Roland FX (SP-1, DS-1, CE-1) into a Music Man 212-HO amp, John Alvey Turner strings starting w/ .010 on top. Tony - Music Man Stingray Bass into Roland JC-120 amp; Chapman Stick, lows thru Ampeg SVT amp, highs into Roland JC-120 amp; both thru Yamaha SB-100 Pro. System boards w/attached pedalboards containing EQ, Fuzz, analog delay, octave divider, preamp & Yamaha volume pedal; Music Man Half-Round strings. Bill - 22" Tama Bass drum, Tama Bell brass snare (when did he retire the Hayman (sp?) ? -frank), Tama Gongdrum (24"); 5 Dragon Drums of varying lengths; 14" Remo Rototom; 5 Simmons Electronic drums & I.D.S. electric foot-pedal drum w/control unit; "xylo-slit" box; 20" Paiste 2002 Heavy ride; 20" Paiste 2002 Chinese and several "prepared" old Zildjians & Paistes. ..as this listing is over 12 years old now & technology growing all of the time, I'm sure that much of this has been replaced/updated by now. -frank P.S. To Tony Levin - Any word on an updated K.C. Barber Shop for the 90's crew? :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- F.J.Mundo kikor at interaccess dot com (preferred)----or-----------------kikor at aol dot com "Excuse me Mr. Pink, but the last fucking thing you need is another cup of coffee" -Reservoir Dogs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 12:55:24 -0500 From: DCOBobW at aol dot com Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 ... In Elephant Talk #158, David Maclennan writes: >Incidentally, Guitar Craft fans may or may not know about a NZ group called >Gitbox Rebellion, who have a nifty album called "Pesky Digits" out on the >local Rattle label. It's members are ex-Guitar Craft students. Is this album generally available in the US or UK? Does anyone have mail order info for Gitbox Rebellion, either from New Zealand or the USA? Thanks. - Bob Wayne [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 16:09:52 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Stok Subject: VROOOM, Discipline's offerings It's great to have some new King Crimson at last, having seen all of the reviews so far I'll just say that it's a neat EP - hopefully it represents a few of the highlights revealed during the group's musical explorations during their first full rehearsals. I look forward to the "real" album. I was pretty amazed to see VROOOM and 1999 in quite a few record stores in the Boston area quite soon after their release dates. I saw the request from Trey Gunn in #158, a problem that may exist is that we're spoiled by the exemplary service of Possible Productions, so I rarely go round record stores looking for stuff I can get from there... However I don't see any problems going and asking as if I would buy a(nother) copy of One Thousand Years. This raised the question for me as th whether the band members see more money if we buy (autographed) copies through Possible Productions or if we go and pressure stores into getting the CDs in and buying them there? Which way would they prefer us to buy CDs? Mike -- The "usual disclaimers" apply. | Meiko Mike Stok | 130C Baker Ave. Ext Mike dot Stok at meiko dot concord dot ma dot us | Concord, MA 01742 Meiko tel: (508) 371 0088 x124 | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Fripp on Wetton's album? Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 15:00:53 +0100 From: Eric Rutten Hello everybody, Some time ago I read that Fripp was playing on a new Wetton album to appear sometime around now; and this week-end I noticed a Wetton CD which seemed to be new. So does anyone know if this is the one, and what Fripp's contribution is there? Eric ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eric Rutten | e-mail: rutten at irisa dot fr IRISA / INRIA | phone: +33 99 84 72 33 Campus de Beaulieu | fax: +33 99 84 71 71 F-35042 RENNES CEDEX - FRANCE | telex:UNIRISA 950 473F ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ First of all, I am a real Minimalist, because I don't do very much. I know some Minimalists who call themselves minimalist but they do loads of minimalism. That is cheating. I really don't do very much. Robert Wyatt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 27 Nov 94 20:42 GMT From: joeo at cix dot compulink dot co dot uk (Psion plc Joe Odukoya) Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #158 In-Reply-To: <9411251546 dot AA08693 at rdf002 dot cs dot man dot ac dot uk> > > Can't help but thinking that the title, apart from the ragged stop start > ending, is also referring back to the ending of Fripp's "Under Heavy > Manners" which ends with "Stop...... Continue" > > James Same thing occured to me but then I thought perhaps I was reading too much into it :-) Joeo - [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Neil McLennan Organization: Edinburgh University Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:52:18 +0000 Subject: Re: Getting hold of VROOOM I managed to get a copy of this fabby recording in Virgin (Edinburgh) last week. It cost #9.99 and they had several copies left. It should be noted that HMV (which is next door to Virgin) knew nothing about Vrooom's existance. So, shop around and don't bother with international mail order. Neil McLennan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Michael O. Bartz" Organization: University of Dayton Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:24:58 EST Subject: Possible origin of 'VROOOM' title? If I were to use the word 'vroom' in a sentence, I would probably use only two o's to make that word. I noticed that a good number of people also have done this in recent postings. So when I noticed that we have the title of VROOOM with three o's, it seemed very strange. Could it be possible that VROOOM has six letters because the band now consists of six members? Each of the letters might stand for each band member. The three O's could stand for the three 'new guys!' It's probably a silly guess, but I can't help but wonder. Mike -- Michael O. Bartz - Network Specialist for the University of Dayton bartz at opus dot oca dot udayton dot edu http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~mbartz/home.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 10:31 PST From: Timothy Edwards Subject: Fripp's Standard Tuning/VROOM Hello, Someone asked if Belew uses a "classical" tuning or Fripp's "standard" tuning. I do not know but I would like to take it further. Does anyone know what Fripp's standard tuning consists of? Why is it structured the way that it is, etc...? Also, VROOM is good. I think they should have not cranked the higher frequencies into it, but it is a calling card and not a love letter..., and yes, we accept Fripp and co. into the party. I'll be checking my mailbox for that love letter... please do not lead us on or leave us at the altar.; ) King Crimson = fripp 8 ! levin (:-) bruford {: > belew {(: ) gunn {:-) mastellotto {: ) (emoticons courtesy of boredom during work break) T [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 19:20 GMT From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: David Cross Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 14:51:12 -0800 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Gordon Haskell, etc. > 3) David Cross Has two decent releases out in recent years and has been touring some, I think based in the UK. Hi Malcolm. David has three albums out now, "Memos from Purgatory", "The Big Picture" and just last month: "Testing to Destruction" The latter has some KC-like live "blows", but also "features" their latest addition, a guitarist from the heavy metal school. I think they were better without him, so I would recommend the Big Picture. I don't understand the Crimso-fan indifference to David's work... It's really good. -- Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) Web users, try: http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/ronc/index.html [Includes pages on my research, & music: my collection, wants & for sale] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 14:58:08 EST From: Nell_Zink at colpal dot com Subject: Elephant talk Just subscribed today. -- When mg. ed. at CMJ Monthly assigned me VROOOM to review, Discipline records guy protested, told him "the ladies don't dig King Crimson." Amusing! Didn't see any ET postings by "ladies." Was surprised, always thought the mellotron-driven lyricism and maudlin vocal stylings of early KC would draw the ladies like flies. Nell [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:15:41 -0500 (EST) From: STU3922 at grog dot ric dot edu Subject: _VROOOM_ I realize that at least most of the ground I'm about to verbally cover here has already been well-trodden, but I can't resist the urge to post. I'm fairly pleased with myself, mainly because I had the sensibility and good judgment to hold off from posting until I'd safely passed through the initial cloud of euphoria consistent with hearing and owning *NEW* King Crimson. Hopefully, my comments will be at least vaguely interested to the seasoned ET veteran. At first, I believed that _VROOOM_ might even be a better musical achievement than _LTiA_, but this was due to the aforementioned initial euphoria. In my overstated opinion, nothing beats Larks' Tongues. However, it was the comparison of the new EP to the 1973 classic album that led me to an interesting hypothesis. "VROOOM" very well might be "Larks' Tongues in Aspic: Part Four". Now, I don't know much of musical theory or technique. I wouldn't be capable of distinguishing a sharp from a flat at gunpoint. All I really know is feeling, and "VROOOM" *FEELS* like "Larks' Tongues in Aspic: Part Four". Perhaps such an assessment seems irrational. Flame me if you must. For those of you privilaged enough to own _The Great Deceiver_, you'll note that Mr. Fripp made mention of a possible "LTiA", which would probably appear with a different title in the future. (This was mentioned with the bit about Mr. Fripp composing the soundtrack for a _Neuromancer_ film. The idea of such a soundtrack for this type of film blows the top of my head clean off, and I'd love to know what happened with that.) Anyway, maybe this is it. Whether it's Larks' Tongues or not, "VROOOM" is an incredible piece of music. The EP itself is easily my best purchase all year. -K.C. Bennett (stu3922 at ric dot edu) P.S.: Does anyone know about any plans to release live boxed sets of the '69-'71 and '81-'84 incarnations of Crimson? I'd kill for something like that, especially if it's in the same order of quality as _The Great Deceiver_. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 17:01:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry Coury Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v94 #156 There have been several inquiries into the bands the Raisins, the Bears, and the Psychodots. Being a Cincinnati native along with the above bands, I thought some people may enjoy a brief history. The Raisins started as a band in the late 70's by releasing a song on a local album project. The song was "Your Song is Mine", and the original members of the group were Rob Fetters (guitars and vocals), Bob Nyswonger (bass and vocals), Tim Toth (keyboards), and Chris Arduser (drums). This version of the Raisins did not last long, though, and they reformed replacing Toth with Nick Nihisel and Arduser with Bam Powell. This version of the Raisins released two singles, an album called "The Raisins", and (at the request of their fans) a 270 minute tape collection called "The Raisins: Everything and More". The tape alledgedly was their swansong before their breakup. The Raisins joined up with Adrian Belew (who incidentally produced most of their records) to form the Bears. It was also at this time that Bam Powell and Nick Nihisel left the group, and Chris Arduser rejoined as the drummer. The Bears released the two albums which most of you know about. The Bears also did a US tour about seven years ago hitting the 48 states except Florida. Rumor has it that Adrian Belew felt he could do better as a solo artist, so he left the Bears. Fetters and Nyswonger are the type of guys who probably cannot live without playing music, so they continued to play around Cincinnati and the midwest without Belew. It was at this time that they changed their name to the Psychodots, claiming that too many people mistook them (i.e., the Raisins) for a silly group of people called the California Raisins, who were not even musicians. I doubt this is true, but Fetters and Nyswonger are both real comedians, especially onstage. Since becoming the Psychodots, they have released two CD's on the Strugglebaby label, and they continue to play. I would highly recommend seeing them if they come your way. They play pretty accessible music, and they often pull out some Bears tunes in concert ("Rabbit Manor", "Fear is Never Boring", and "Figure it Out" are concert regulars - in fact, the Raisins' biggest hit in Cincinnati was the pre-Bears version of "Fear is Never Boring"). Hope this helps. P.S. Thanks, Toby, for providing this service to all of us. Larry Coury Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA coury at fas dot harvard dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 19:24:23 EST From: astarling at octrf dot on dot ca Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #158 Regarding the inquiry about any other work by Michael Brook: he did a soundtrack with The Edge for a film called 'Captive' sometime back in the 80's. It's great, and Sinead O'Conner even sings on one of the tunes. Back before she hit it big I believe. MB did a show at 'The Rivoli' in Toronto a couple of years ago, and there appeared to be a fellow making a recording of it in the audience. Haven't seen any Brook bootlegs though. I think Brook was also on Eno's 'Ambient 4' as well as John Hassell's 'Power Spot'. Could be mistaken about the last one. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Elephant-talk digest v94 From: greg dot aranda at toadhall dot com (Greg Aranda) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 19:16:00 -0700 Organization: Toad Hall High Octane BBS 415-595-2427 @SUBJECT: Elephant-talk digest v94 #158 JS> From: John Saylor JS> Subject: Islands JS> The instrumental pallate is much more pared down in Islands than on JS> Lizard. There is an oboe player and a string 4tet, but not Tippet or JS> any guest vocalists like on Lizard. Au contraire... Mr. Tippett does, indeed, play piano on Islands. Also, Mark Charig plays cornet, Harry Miller plays string bass, and Paulina Lucas guests as the soprano on "Formentera Lady". Nonetheless, it is true that the overall sound of Islands is much simpler than that of Lizard. JS> And Fripp wrote a string quartet that's nice, but not really earth JS> shattering. It might be interesting to note that "Prelude: Song of the Gulls" was derived from "Suite No. 1" (Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles, and Fripp). MH> From: Malcolm Humes MH> Subject: Gordon Haskell, etc. MH> > 1) Whatever happened to Gordon Haskell, bass player and singer. I MH> I think he rose from being a roadie to being trained on bass by MH> Fripp when he was needed in a pinch. As far as I could tell he more MH> or less retired from music for years, aside from I think at least MH> one post-King Crimson lo he did with other ex-KC'ers at the time he MH> split. I forget the title but I've heard it's a fairly bad bluesy lp MH> with little hinting that it's Fripp's ex-backing band. This "biography" is =much= more suited to Boz Burrell, rather than Gordon Haskell. It was Boz who was taught to play bass guitar by Fripp. And it was Boz who appeared on an album by bluesman Alexis Korner, along with Islands mates Mel Collins and Ian Wallace. The three of them backed up Alexis under the name "The Snape". -- ============================================================================== Assembled by: Greg Aranda in Mountain View, CA, USA at 18:21 PST on 11/28/94 Contact: greg dot aranda at toadhall dot com ============================================================================== --- RM 1.3 00624 When the flood calls, you have no home, you have no walls. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 05:27:53 -0500 From: Scooobadoo at aol dot com Subject: Belew acoustic / psychodots This is my first post after lurking a bit. Great to experience entertaining and creative minds dancing on the fringes of popular culture. >From RODT at leif dot ucs dot mun dot ca: > Just wondering - do you know anything about the Adrian Belew acoustic > album, and/or where I could order a copy? I haven't seen it here, but I'd > LOVE to get a copy! Any help would be great. Try contacting the office handling management for Adrian (and psychodots)... they go by various agency names, but you can reach them at (513) 871-1500. r dot dittmeier at genie dot geis dot com gave some history of the psychodots in the last issue. I've been following this band, in its various incarnations and with Belew in the Bears, since the early 80's, and am much gratified to see some interest in them expressed out here in cyberspace. Especially among Crimsos, some of whom I'm sure would find psychodots' (and Adrian's solo) pop leanings a bit too conventional. But there's an underlying wit and creative originality to their music that belies the song's traditional stuctures and love of melody. It's just too bad that they haven't really made it in the biz... I once saw them play in a mall in Cincinnati after the Bears' breakup, when they were still billing themselves as the Raisins, and the audience consisted of pissed-off families who were expecting, I guess, costumed dried fruit of the West Coast persuassion (this confusion with the California Raisins is what prompted the name change, I think, not actual threat of legal action). Anyway, I love 'em, and if you're interested in some tapes, email me... I'd also like to express my glee that Tony Levin posted here to report the Internet duet... how about some more progress reports on the new album from actual band members (Mr. Fripp, could you lower yourself to)? <-- I'd use a "smiley" here, except that I oppose them on religious grounds. Finally, count my vote that Vroom ROCKS! I hope the improvisational crunch that has reminded many of us of the mid-seventies Crimson will be carried forward to the finished product, rather than merely serving as proof that we're eavesdropping with the EP on a growing process that would normally be left private. Dave Ash [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 16:34:16 +1300 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: Fripp/Eno discog info Juha's Fripp info from Finland (posted in Elephant Talk) has prompted me to write to you about a record I have at home which doesn't appear in your Fripp discography. I'm not sure if it appears in the Eno discography either (which if I remember rightly you also keep). If you feel the info below is worth posting to either the Elephant Talk or Nerve Net lists, feel free... (BTW, I also notice there is no mention in the Compilations section of the Fripp discography of "Angels in the Architecture", which has been discussed in recent issues of one of those two mailing lists, too.) 1982 First Edition Compilation album of tracks recorded for the EG label between 1974 and 1982. 1 Deutscher Girls - The Original Adam and the Ants 2'26" 2 Under Heavy Manners - Robert Fripp 4'44" 3 Impossible Guitar - Phil Manzanera 3'04" 4 Task Force - Brian Eno 3'06" 5 Harlem Nocturne - The Lounge Lizards 2'00" 6 Nka Bom - Edikanfo 3'48" 7 Walk Don't Run - Penguin Cafe Orchestra 3'00" 8 Heptaparaparshinokh - Fripp/League of Gentlemen 2'05" 9 Dance #1 - Laraaji 2'25" 10 Bogota - Phil Manzanera 3'35" 11 RAF - Brian Eno/Snatch 3'05" 12 Courage - Jon Hassell 3'38" 13 Seven Deadly Finns - Eno 3'02" 14 The Ecstasy of Dancing Fleas - Penguin Cafe Orchestra 4'00" 15 Shadow - Brian Eno 3'05" All tracks previously released. LP Editions EG 2311 133 CS Editions EG 3199 313 Notes: 1. Heptaparaparshinokh is listed on the record label as by Brian Eno & the League of Gentlemen(!) 2. All Brian Eno tracks are listed on sleeve and label as being by Brian Eno, except "Seven Deadly Finns" which is listed on the sleeve as simply by "Eno" 3. catalogue numbers possibly Polygram - "made under licence..." Another pebble placed on discography mountain... keep up the good work ;-) James James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago. Ya jivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand pixelphone james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807 * You talk to me as if from a distance * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time, * from another time (Brian Eno) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: fischer at falcons dot ent dot ohiou dot edu (Chris Fischer) Subject: Primus sound in Cage Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 13:55:11 EST Did the combined guitar & vocals sound at the beginning of Cage remind anyone else of Primus' "Johnny Was A Racecar Driver"? That was my first thought when I first listened to the disk. Chris fischer at falcons dot ent dot ohiou dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 11:20:39 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: thanks Many thanks to everyone who provided info on Tom Phillips and FTPing by email Cheers, James Musical recommendation for the day: Calenture (The Triffids) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Maclennan Subject: More on "Islands" and Gordon Haskell Date: 30 Nov 1994 12:28:27 +1200 I suggest John Saylor take another look at the liner notes to "Islands" -- Keith Tippett does indeed play on this album, as do several other alumni of that very fertile period in British Jazz-rock. There's also a guest vocalist (sort of) in Paulina Lucas -- the only time a female voice has appeared on a KC album, I think! Yes, "Islands" is introspective, but I don't know about it being a stylistic link between "Lizard" and "Lark's Tongues". "Islands" is in many ways the most different of all the KC albums, being largely acoustic for a start (KC Unplugged! Years ahead of their time as always!), and as a result is by far the gentlest of all KC albums. I really like it a lot, especially "Formentera Lady", "Sailor's Tale" and the title track. I think it's a very underrated album, even by KC fans. As for Gordon Haskell (possibly my favourite of KC's various vocalists) he has, in fact, got three albums out on Voiceprint: Hambledon Hill (VP127CD) It's Just A Plot To Drive You Crazy (VP118CD) Radio Session (VPR001CD) (The latter is a mini-album, I gather.) I haven't heard any of them, so I can't tell you more. Voiceprint do mail order, and their address is: Voiceprint, P O Box 5, Derwentside, County Durham DH9 7HR, UK. Lastly, VROOOM just gets better and better with each playing! It may well be "work in progress" or a snapshot, but it still knocks spots off most other releases this year. Any record that produces such divergent views has got to have something going for it. Yes, VROOOM probably does raise expectations, but then where KC are concerned, expectations are always high (which might explain why I didn't like the 80s albums as much as the earlier ones). Cheers, David Maclennan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 11:56:19 +1000 From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) Subject: Fripp and Summers to change the talk a bit away from vrooom. this morning was listening to I Advance masked, and was struck again by how good the album is. as is bewitched. i was wondering what other ETers thought of the albums (i don't recall any discussion of them previously, though someone like james who has gone through the archives more recently may have noted some). how much influence they see of fripp on summers and vice versa - was it fripp seeking mainstream or summers seeking the artistic fringe? i also think they were the first albums to include a clear pic of fripp (there is an indistinct one on islands), or was exposure earlier? anyway, just a change of thread. jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ottari at ismennt dot is (Ottar Isberg) Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #158 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 15:58:24 +0000 (GMT) The meaning of VROOOM Don't look to far for the meaning of VROOOM. If you read cartoons this means that a car speeds up. This applies well to VROOOM which sort of takes you by attack (according to reviews), just like you were pu in a racing car. That's all. Orn Orrason MDS LTD Iceland [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 20:31:49 GMT From: Cheryl Elaine Smith Subject: Re: E.T. I recently read in Keyboard that UK is reforming again. While this isn't nearly as exiting as Crimson's reformation, I was wondering if anyone knew who the members will be in the new Uk. Hopefully not Wetton. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: pvallado at sdcc5 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: CD distribution and a Question for Mr.Gunn Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 10:44:32 -0800 (PST) > Date: 18 Nov 94 16:59:12 EST > From: trey gunn > Subject: help! > > please help! > > this may sound small and insignificant but,....... We are having a > terribly difficult time getting and keeping my album, "1000 Years", (not to > mention the California Guitar Trio) in stores. I am, frankly, at my wits > end. > > I would strongly encourage those of you who have an interest -- to go to > your local record stores and ask for these CD's as if you might buy > them. Especially in America. Only if there is a voiced demand can we > continue to deliver (and I mean literally "deliver") these types of > records. > > thanks, trey Thank goodness for Possible Productions, where I have conveniently placed orders for, and received in a timely manner, CDs by yourself, Robert Fripp, and King Crimson. Bill Bruford told me that ordering music by mail is a fairly common practice in Europe. Here in a part of the USA where the best (and often the only!) way for me to access CDs released on obscure labels such as East Side Digital, Cuneiform, HC Productions (Djam Karet's label), Flying Note, etc. is through mailorder, I don't frequent the record shops that much. As the number of Internet users continue to grow, I'm confident the market for mailorder operations such as Possible Productions will expand. With the Elephant Talk mailing list, other mailing lists, Usenet newsgroups, WWW pages, etc., music lovers everywhere are doing their part in promoting awareness of music not supported by big corporate media and places where this music can be found. Don't despair, Mr. Gunn, with over 700 subscribers to Elephant Talk alone, a fair percentage of them are bound to buy your CD and/or the CGT's CD. A question for you: Do you have any philosophy regarding the process of improvising with sound itself (as opposed to just musical notes)? With the band I just joined, we are trying to look into improvised "sound exploration" as a way of making music. Instead of improvising on my guitar in the traditional jazz/rock manner of spitting out scales and arpeggios, I'm trying to find ways to improvise with the sound of the guitar itself in the time honored tradition of Fred Frith, Derek Bailey, and yes, the players involved with King Crimson. At the moment, I feel like I'm just flailing away, aimlessly knocking on my instrument on various places, etc; not really doing anything as intelligent or purposeful as in the case of the above artists. I'm aware you are a busy person, so if you have time to share with us your thoughts on the sound-exploration-improvisation process in a group setting it would be most appreciated but if not that's fine too. -- Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado at sdcc5 dot ucsd dot edu for more info \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Maclennan Subject: Gitbox Rebellion album Date: 02 Dec 1994 09:49:08 +1200 I've had a couple of messages since my last posting regarding the Gitbox Rebellion album "Pesky Digits" and how to obtain it. This album came out a couple of years ago on a NZ label called Rattle. Assuming it's still available, one possible source would be: Real Groovy Records 438 Queen Street Auckland New Zealand Fax: +64-9-307-0493 (They accept Amex, Visa and Mastercard) Not sure of the cost -- probably around NZ$30, plus post/packing. -- David Maclennan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 17:41:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: VROOOM IT'S INCREDIBLE! I AM IN AWE! Wow. To have this music in my possession... esp. when all music was beginning to seem so and stale and I completely lacking any NEW music!!! I don't know what to say. This is the first time in my life I have been witness to such an amazing event in progressive music. I'm only 18, so I was not around to see the release of _Lark's Tongues in Aspic_ or _The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway_ or _Fragile_. To think that this blessed incarnation of the Crimson King is all happening RIGHT NOW is so exciting I can't fully express it. Oh wow. And to think I have the autographs of six of the world's most talented musicians in my very possession... Next step: dub this beast onto a tape, head to my basement where I keep my drums, and learn the drum parts. I've managed to do it with several of Bruford's most notable performances, like the Lark's series, Heart Of The Sunrise, Fractured, Starless, Indiscipline, Neurotica... what fodder. :) Standing here beside myself with ears open, JP [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 23:38:28 -0600 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: in-depth title analysis of VROOOM Before we get too far into theories about "Virtual Reality Rooms" and Dutch names, I feel I should point out that VROOOM nicely conjures up the sound of an engine being revved up, very much in line with the harder-edged sound of the new group. The title track itself reminds me somewhat of Red, which used similar imagery (i.e. rev up past the red line). Then again, there's always the possibility that it _is_ just a reference to the Douglas Adams character Vroomfondel or something else equally clever.... =) It's only talk, john p.s. picked up Bruford's Earthworks live album "Stamping Ground." Review to follow... initial reaction is good. :-) -===-John R. Nash-==-nash at chem dot wisc dot edu-==-UW-Madison Chem. Dept-===- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ----- ADMINISTRIVIA ----- ** POSTINGS Please send all postings to Toby Howard, at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** SUBSCRIPTIONS/ADDRESS CHANGES USA subscribers: please contact Ken Bibb at elephant-talk-request at arastar dot com. Non-USA subscribers: please contact Toby Howard, at elephant-talk-request at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** ARCHIVES FTP: The Elephant Talk archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/elephant-talk, and recent issues on ftp.cs.man.ac.uk in /pub/toby/elephant-talk. 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