Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk #150 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 150, Friday, 30 September 1994 Today's Topics: Electronic Mail Order? Elephant Talk ?149 Re: Elephant Talk #149 Non KC Faves Survey Results neal and jack and me 21rst Century Digital Boy Re: Elephant Talk 149 Remastered Crimson Fall up Re-Mastered discs Damage [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ADMINISTRIVIA A note from Ken Bibb, US distributor of Elephant Talk: If you're subscribed through the US Distribution and you didn't receive issues #148 or #149, please contact me by email and I'll send you your copies. This was my fault and I apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused. Thank you, Ken (kbibb at arastar dot com). [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 22:59:37 +0930 (CST) From: Stephen White Subject: Electronic Mail Order? Has anyone else had any luck with the DGM CompuServe address or the Possible Productions email address? Since I am in Australia, I don't know which one I should be using. Is there anyone else from Australia who is ordering the Vroom CD, as well as that Fripp CD which name escapes my neuron at present? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 19:32:10 +0100 From: Julian Parry Subject: Elephant Talk ?149 Dear all, my name is Julian Parry and I'm new to this newsletter (which, by the way, I think is great!). In reply to the remastered KC stuff, I bought RED on CD in 1990 in Berkeley, California. It was a "Definitive Edition" remaster. I think all of the basic KC stock has been remastered. I recall, however that these weren't available in Britain at the same time, and only appeared several years later. Only previously owning RED on vinyl, I can't give provide any reliable information on how the old and the new compare, but I do own an original 1983 DISCIPLINE cd and the 4 box set studio/live compilation that came out a few years ago which consisted of the "definitive" remasters. Personally, I always found the sound quality on the original DISCIPLINE to be poor: unacceptable master tape hiss and a thinness to the sound, as if it had been recorded with a stereo dictaphone. By comparison with the definitive tracks off that album on the box set, I find the sound quality to be exactly the same: ie, bad. Interestingly, a compilation cd by John Wetton, entitled, I think, King's Road 1972-80, has 2 KC tracks on it: "Book of Saturday" and "Starless" that appear to me to sound better than their original counterparts on cd. However, given that the originals were transferred to cd incorrectly, intuition should tell us that the definitive remasters should be better, if only on paper. Hence, I was a little disappointed the other day when I bought THE FIRST THREE "limited edition" box set of IN THE COURT..., IN THE WAKE OF...., and LIZARD, only to find that only the first one had been remastered. Can anyone explain that one to me? The box consists of 3 picture discs, with some beautiful artwork. Secondly, I don't think the average person can hear much above 15KHz. I think that musicians should take more responsibility for the welfare of their audiences' ears: they should be careful about too-high volume levels. Thirdly, we have a 4 cd live boxset for the period 1972-74, but why o why o why isn't there the equivalent for the period 1981-84? Live performances in that era, especially around 1981-82, were infinitely more powerful than the studio versions. Fourthly, what exactly is the current state of KC? I know they are rehearsing in S. America, and are now based in Japan, but have they released an album or EP or what? And if so, is it available in Europe? Fithly and finally, I think its a shame that the groups requirements cannot be met in Europe. I hope that British audiences won't be punished by scant concert dates on account of the appallingly bad way the British music press have treated the group in the past. Regards, Julian. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 15:38:11 EDT Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #149 >Today's Topics: > Mail order Houses > Remastered KC >>>>> Re: Elephant Talk #149 <<<<<<< > Belew on video :) > Elephant Talk Re: Elephant Talk #149? It's there in the index but my copy of ET #149 doesn't have this post. I guess is this is an explanation of why Discipline is now called Elephant Talk! [ Sorry, it was a typo -- Toby ] I'm kind of glad to see this newsletter renamed. True, Discipline was the first and most important KC album of the '80's (because of the big change in style). But if there's an American band called Discipline then there should be no confusion. Besides - I tire of people asking if Discipline has anything to do with bizzare sex. Love that FFWD>...Looking forward to RF in Argentina and Varroom! David Beardsley Rahway, N.J. dmb5561719 at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "John T. Furlong" Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:02:22 -0400 Subject: Non KC Faves Survey Results Here are the results of the survey of what non-KC groups we all listen to. I was hoping for more respondants but I think we did ok with about twenty people answering my post. You will notice that there are alot of people and bands on this list that are off (way off) the mainstream. Not a critique, just a comment. So here they are (in order of votes): 7 Gabriel, Peter 5 Eno, Brian 4 Zappa, Frank 3 Oldfield, Mike 3 Van der Graaf generator 3 Yes 2 Beatles 2 ELP 2 Genesis 2 McLaughlin, John 2 Pink Floyd 2 R.E.M. 2 Sonic Youth 2 XTC And there are numerous one vote getters: Anderson, Laurie Bach, J. S. Beethoven, Ludwig van The Band Black Sabbath The Buddy Scott Trio Bush, Kate Camel Clinton, George Cow, Henry Davies, Miles Deep Purple The Durutti Column Dylan, Bob Echo & the Bunnymen Firesign Theatre Fitzgerald, Patrik Fleck, Bela Gentle Giant Glass, Philip Godflesh Grateful Dead Green, Al Harper, Roy Hawkwind Heldon Hitchcock, Robyn The Jesus and Mary Chain Jethro Tull Joy Division Keaggy, Phil Lennon, John Little Jack Melody & his Young Turks Marillion Material McLachlan, Sarah Melvins Metallica Midnight Oil My Bloody Valentine Nine Inch Nails NRBQ Oingo Boingo Ozric Tentacles Phillips, Anthony Phish Popol Vuh Primus Prince (or 'the artist formally known as Prince') Reed, Lou The Residents The Roches Roxy Music Schulze, Klaus Siberry, Jane Slayer Soft Machine Sylvian, David Tangerine Dream Tibbetts, Steve Thelonious Monk Thompson, Richard Throbbing Gristle Throwing Muses Vangelis Vega, Suzanne The Velvet Underground Wire The Who Thanks to all who wrote, John Furlong (who loses his email account today) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:19:27 -0500 (CDT) From: fallen angel (John P Mohan) Subject: neal and jack and me I know that this topic has been addressed in Discipline before, but that was a while back and I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention. What is Neal and Jack and Me about? I seem to remember Neal and Jack being references to authors, but I can't think of which ones. I'm confessing ignorance on the part of a loyal crimhead. Can anyone enlighten me? JP "Arrive in Neurotica" Mohan Grinnell College Grinnell, IA mohanjp at ac dot grin dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: r dot derousse2 at genie dot geis dot com Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 16:13:00 UTC Subject: 21rst Century Digital Boy Here's an excerpt from a note that was posted recently on Prodigy: From: BJUR55B at prodigy dot com MARK POSNER >interesting combination. I only wish the King Crimson had >more notoriety. I am a senior in high school and when ever >I mention King Crimson no one has any idea of who they are. >How popular were they at their peeks, did they ever get >radio play? I love King Crimson, and I listen to the Great >Deceiver set constantly, its mind-blowing. I feel King >Crimson is one of the all time great bands and consistently >have a level of musicianship far superior to most other >bands. The music has always been so innovative and >influential but it seems like no one has ever heard of them. [I included that just as interesting background info. On to the crux of the note]: >One interesting note: King Crimson does appear on an album by >the group Bad Religion on a song "21st Century Digital Boy" >much of the lyrics from 21st Century Schizoid Man are used >and the general tune of the two songs is similiar and King >Crimson gets credit for the lyrics. I don't recall seeing this mentioned before. Has anyone here heard it? --Roy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:43:45 -400 (EDT) From: Geoff Gladden Subject: Re: Elephant Talk 149 KC Remasters: I believe all of the KC remasters say on the back, something like "The Definitive Edition, remastered by Robert Fripp and Tony Arnold 1991"..... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Remastered Crimson From: mike dot dickson at almac dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 18:10:00 +0000 Organization: ALMAC: Scotland : +44 (0)324 665371 [ET] It's my favorite album, so I guess that's fitting, but I would like [ET] to know if anyone has heard anything about any re-mastered stuff. I have a 'remastered' version of 'In The Court Of The Crimson King' which sounds absolutely identical to the original to my ears. I suspect this is because it is *remastered* and not *remoxed*, the two being quite different. --- * KWQ/2 1.2g * Columnated Ruins Domino * mike dot dickson at almac dot co dot uk * TEAM OS/2 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: AyRon at aol dot com Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 01:17:22 EDT Subject: Fall up Hi, folks. Slightly off topic, but a song that Fripp is on, can someone E-mail me the lyrics to Eno's "Fall Up"? It would be much appreciated. I've got an idea of what some of the words are, but some of them don't sound quite, well, correct...I hope. Aaron [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Cleetus at aol dot com Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 20:39:50 EDT Subject: Re-Mastered discs > Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 > From: Jack Starmer > Subject: Remastered KC > > Hi All, > > I seem to remember reading (perhaps in "The Great Deciever" box set) > that Robert Fripp had digitally re-mastered some or all of the King > Crimson stuff. The CD's I have are all from back in about 1985 or so > and I purchased a newer copy of RED to see if there was any sound > improvement. There was no indication on the pressing as to whether or > any new mastering had taken place. I suspect not. So now I have two > exact copies of RED - It's my favorite album, so I guess that's fitting, > but I would like to know if anyone has heard anything about any > re-mastered stuff. > > jack starmer (jms at hodgkin dot mc dot duke dot edu) Jack, I remember, and it's going back a while, when all the KC albums (vinyl, I had no CDs then) started appearing with re-mastered stickers on them. I'd alway's presumed these re-mastered tapes were then used for the CDs. (Similar to the way Zappa re-mastered his first few albums, sold them on vinyl as the Old Masters box, then used these versions when they went to CD). So it's possible you already have the re-mastered versions. Frank Malinowski (cleetus at aol dot com) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 16:54:16 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: Damage Hi. I picked up the UK release of the new Sylvian/Fripp live album 'Damage' yesterday. The packaging (Russell Mills) is very pleasant: 20+ page colour booklet, gold CD. The details are: 'Damage', Sylvian/Fripp Virgin Damage 1 7243 8 39905 2 8 1. Damage (Sylvian/Fripp/Gunn) 4.31 2. God's Monkey (Sylvian/Fripp/Gunn/Bottrill) 6.42 3. Brightness Falls (Sylvian/Fripp/Gunn) 6.29 4. Every Colour You Are (Sylvian/Karn/Jansen/Barbieri) 5.40 5. Firepower (Sylvian/Fripp/Gunn) 7.02 6. Gone To Earth (Sylvian/Fripp) 2.28 7. 20th Century Dreaming (a shaman's song) (Sylvian/Fripp/Gunn) 8.03 8. Wave (Sylvian) 6.11 9. Riverman (Sylvian) 5.01 10. Darshan (the road to graceland) (Sylvian/Fripp/Gunn/Bottrill) 10.47 11. Blinding Light Of Heaven (Sylvian/Fripp/Gunn) 4.15 12. The First Day (Sylvian/Fripp/Gunn) 4.44 It's a very good live recording. The highlights here for me are Fripp's _cooking_ solos and textures, and Trey Gunn's beautiful Stick playing. Having seen a concert in Manchester (UK) on the tour from which this is recorded, I was surprised to hear so much Fripp soloing on the new record. In concert Robert sat in shadow (the subject of a letter of complaint and a reply from RF which we ran in a previous issue of ET) and I remembered a far less up-front contribution from him. It was a pleasure to hear him play so excitingly on this new release. Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ----- ADMINISTRIVIA ----- ** POSTINGS Please send all postings to Toby Howard, at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** SUBSCRIPTIONS/ADDRESS CHANGES USA subscribers: please contact Ken Bibb at elephant-talk-request at arastar dot com. Non-USA subscribers: please contact Toby Howard, at elephant-talk-request at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** ARCHIVES The Elephant Talk archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/elephant-talk. I'm sorry, but I cannot mail out back issues personally. ** WWW http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html ** LEGALESE The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]