Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk #148 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 148, Friday, 16 September 1994 Today's Topics: Our new name King Crimson ergo Bi Kyo Ran New subscriber - a couple of questions Fripp Quintet US shows Re: Discipline 147 Re: Discipline 147 why the Breeders kick ass Why Japan and what VROOOM Sara Hickman & Crimsonites about Gentle Giant CDs & other stuff Re: Gentle Giant Re: Request (Under Heavy Manners) The Third Crimson Album "McDonald and Giles" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 17:45:07 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: Our new name Hi everyone. You'll see we are no longer 'Discipline'. We are now 'Elephant Talk'. I'll explain, but first a blast from the past to set the context: blast> Discipline, Number 1 blast> Monday, 19 August 1991 blast> blast> 1 Topic Today: blast> blast> Future projects blast> blast> ************************************************************ blast> blast> Hi! Thanks to everyone who's expressed interest (24 so far) in a mailing blast> list to talk about Frippery. Tell your friends! blast> I started the list so we could talk about Fripp and his music/ideas, as blast> well as former (and I hope future!) King Crimson members, and other blast> collaborators, the League of Crafty Guitarists etc etc etc blast> blast> Unless anyone can come up with anything better, I'll call the list blast> "Discipline". For now, contact it at toby at uk dot ac dot man dot cs. blast> blast> I'll do my best to moderate the list, and send out a digest every so often! blast> Let's go! blast> blast> Here's something to kick off with: blast> blast> Best wishes to you all blast> Toby That was the first tentative post to the list, and over 3 years we've grown almost uncontrollably from 24 readers to over 900, in 26 different coutries. We have two distributors: Ken Bibb sends the mail out in the Americas, and I serve the rest of the world. The success of the list has exceeded all my hopes, and running the list has certainly changed my life, and I know it has led to all sorts of changes and happenings for many of the other people here. The name 'Discipline' seemed right at the time things were starting, but times change. There are 3 reasons for today's change: 1. For the last year or so there has been some increasing confusion, with various people thinking there is a formal connection between 'Discipline', Robert Fripp's trademarked record label and music publishing company, and 'Discipline' the Internet Newsletter. Although the newsletter supports Robert's work however it can, there is no direct formal or legal connection, but it is not unreasonable to assume that there is, since the names are the same. 2. Some time ago Robert suggested changing the name of the newsletter, because in his view although the term 'discipline' rightly reflects his approach to his work, it is however not a name that expresses the identity of the Internet list, which is a thing with a life of its own. I believe our new name is far more appropriate. 3. There has also been some confusion of a more -- shall we say -- 'intimate' nature, with requests relating to 'discipline' of a non-musical recreational kind... ahem. Anyway, the intended name change was announced last year some time, and I polled readers for their suggestions. Only now have I had a chance to sort it out. Our new name will be Elephant Talk. I hope you like it. Here's to many more years of Elephant Talk. Best wishes to everyone Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 10:17:45 PST From: "Allen Huotari" Subject: King Crimson ergo Bi Kyo Ran I recently had the opportunity to trade with a Crimson/prog fan in Japan. The item I received in exchange was "Parallax" the second and final studio album by the Japanese band Bi Kyo Ran. Although I had been aware of this group and this recording for many years (through Wayside Music) I had never heard them. Over the years, Wayside has described the sound of Bi Kyo Ran as "there are parts that will make you swear you're hearing long lost recordings by Starless/Red KC...if you miss Starless/Red era Crimso...then you will simply love this disc...not exactly original but very well done." Well...although I do miss that incarnation of Crimson and despite the intrigue, I could never quite justify paying the staggering price for Japanese imports (besides, why bother with a very expensive soundalike when I can hear the real thing?). Okay, enough background, I'll get to the point. On the basis of a half dozen or so intense listening sessions, I'm convinced that most Crimson fans (and hardcore progressive aficionados) will want to hear "Parallax." KC junkies who just can't get enough of that sound will be delighted to know that the Crimson influence and inspiration are unmistakable. While I'm not certain one will mistake "Parallax" for long lost Starless/Red era recordings I can understand that some could believe they're hearing long lost Fripp sessions since there are many (very tasty) Fripp soundalike guitar passages. Although the comparison to Starless/Red will be inevitable, IMHO this recording owes a similar debt to Lizard/Islands. In many ways (and with a little imagination), "Parallax" could be listened to as a recording the Islands lineup could have eventually made as a missing link or at least a transitional step towards Starless/Red. But despite the undeniable KC influence, Bi Kyo Ran is far from being solely imitative. Beyond sonic similarities, structurally many parts of "Parallax" are dissimilar to anything recorded by Crimson. Large portions are strongly reminiscent of prime '70's Italian progressive bands with maybe a hint or two of SFF and Art Zoyd (These last two bands were mentioned when I played this for a friend. Sorry to be such a band "name dropper". I'm just trying to establish a reference not necessarily a direct comparison). I can safely recommend Bi Kyo Ran to fans who admire these groups. To try and wrap this up, some hard data on Bi Kyo Ran and "Parallax". The group was fundamentally a trio of guitar/bass/drums augmented by violin/cello/trumpet/keyboards (lots of mellotron!) for this recording guitarist/vocalist Kunio Suma is given credit for "music, words, arrangements, production" and would thus appear to be the guiding force behind Bi Kyo Ran. Recorded in August 1983, "Parallax" is comprised of three tracks: "Silent Running" "Prediction" and "Suite 'Ran'". This album is reportedly the group's masterwork. Nearly everyone I've played this for as chosen "Prediction" as the best track citing it as a Crimson/Genesis hybrid (thanks to some very Hackett-esque guitar). "Suite 'Ran'" is an epic constructed in five parts: 1. Prologue: The Sky Distorting Too Much (Ants Always March the Same Way) 2. A Klaxon of Dr. Strangelove (The Result of the Analysis on a Psychology In Immoral Noises) 3. Parallax Company (Concerning Continual Trial of a Megalomaniac) 4. Great Parallax (Concerning a Violent Energy of a Megalomaniac) 5. Epilogue: Crimson Children (Pupils Staring at a Stream). The play here is often exceptional and intense particularly on the Megalomaniac sections. The last section is highly reminiscent of "Trio" from S&BB. It's title and style serve as a fitting conclusion to the album. Summary: Although Bi Kyo Ran prove themselves more than just an obscure Crimson wannabe, it is also clear (and by the bands own admission) that they would not have existed without KC. The liner notes translate to "King Crimson was there, thus Bi Kyo ran exists."So while we are all waiting for VROOM and the other goodies promised soon, I suggest you investigate the musical legacy begun by Mr. Fripp and company and perpetuated by bands like Bi Kyo Ran, Anekdoten, Myrbien, etc. (BTW I've just learned that an archival live recording of Bi Kyo Ran has just been released which consists solely of Crimson covers. I've got this on order and will post the track listing when it arrives...unless somebody beats me to it!) Thanks and best regards to KK at Toshiba Ome Works. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 16:36:06 -1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: New subscriber - a couple of questions Hello everyone. Just doing my bit by introducing myself to discipline I am 31, a Masters student in Psychology from Dunedin, New Zealand, and am also a fan of a wide range of music from Brian Eno to XTC to Jethro Tull to Robyn Hitchock. And of course New Zealand indies like the Verlaines. Basically everything except rap and country, I suppose. Favourite Crimso and related? Red, and Starless & Bible Black of the old stuff, Beat of the newer stuff, and Evening Star and League of Gentlemen of the other Fripp projects. A question or two: A friend in Osaka, Japan recently informed me that The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp is available on CD. Is this true? Also, have the Fripp produced albums Sacred Songs (Daryl Hall) and The Roches (by the Roches) ever appeared on CD? James James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago. Ya jivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807 * You talk to me as if from a distance * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time, * from another time. (Brian Eno) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 23:14:10 -0700 From: vance at netcom dot com (Vance Gloster) Subject: Fripp Quintet US shows There have also been shows by the Fripp String Quartet in Japan (I have a lovely video of this by the way) that I think just made it to U.S. shores via compact disc (Were there any U.S. shows?). There was a GREAT show of the Robert Fripp String _Quintet_ here in LA, at The Strand. This was probably almost a year ago. They did have the video of them in Japan for sale at the time, so it was after the tour of Japan. The Strand is a reasonably small club venue so it was a wonderful place to hear them. -Vance Gloster vance at netcom dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 23:46:58 -0700 From: tntmusic at halcyon dot halcyon dot com (Kevin J. O'Conner dba Tinty Music) Subject: Re: Discipline 147 >From: Vector at eworld dot com >Sender: "Vector" >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 10:29:32 PDT >Subject: Fripp in Japan > >"Walking out the door, just another metaphor". Does any one know why >Mr. Fripp has made Japan the Crimso-headquaters? Only four U.S. appearances >on the Sylvian/Fripp tour and something like 10 performances on the islands >in the Pacific. There have also been shows by the Fripp String Quartet in >Japan (I have a lovely video of this by the way) that I think just made it >to U.S. shores via compact disc (Were there any U.S. shows?). But the >thing that burns me up (I am about to ignite, really) is when I heard from >an interview with his highness that an E.P. of new Crimson material would >be released this fall only in Japan. A blow to hardcores everywhere else in >the World! I assume that will mean the rest of us will shell out $25-$30 >for the import at our favourite record store for a 20 minute glimpse at the >new firepower. Selective marketing will cause an increase in demand for the >bootleg market for such items like a video of the String Quartet live from >Japan. A message to Robert Fripp and to also kindly qoute the Deadheads "We >are Everywhere!!". Well, if you want to start with purely economic considerations, it should be noted that Japan is the world's second-largest market for recorded music (at least in terms of the revenues generated by sales). Then you may want to consider that Japanese audiences are quite receptive to Robert Fripp's work. (This is also true of David Sylvian; overall, he has probably had more success in Japan than anywhere else in the world.) Just think, he did two tours of Japan in 1993 (Sylvian/Fripp and RFSQ), and shows from both tours were recorded for broadcast on Japanese TV. And when Sylvian/Fripp undertook their "First Day" tour there in March 1992, coverage in the music press was extensive - magazine covers, interviews, and (among the various magazines I read while I was there) reviews of nearly every show, complete with set lists. Neither Fripp nor Sylvian seem to have much more than small but devoted followings in the US (which, given the nature of their work, is probably inevitable), which probably explains the limited number of shows undertaken there. Next, Japanese reviews tend to be positive. That is, there seems to be some unwritten rule that says an explicitly negative review is verboten. During the five years I lived in Tokyo, I never read a negative review of a concert. They're pretty rare. A lukewarm but positive review is about as bad as you're likely to get. Anyway, as it is typically stated, if things were to not go well, well, who would know? Also, Japanese sponsors & promoters will often pay foreign acts quite handsomely to put on a Japanese tour. With today's exchange rates, the value of this source of income cannot be underestimated. Finally, before you envy the Japanese record-buying public too much for the bonus tracks on certain albums and special releases (usually timed to coincide with either an artist's Japanese tour or some sort of record co. milestone/anniversary) which are made available to them, you should know that many of the singles and e.p.'s that appear in the U.S. or Europe would never see release in Japan otherwise. Either way, said Japanese record-buying public pays higher prices in the first place (which, exchange rates aside, is the main reason why Japanese imports cost so much). Kevin Kevin J. O'Conner d.b.a. Tinty Music P.O. Box 85363 Seattle, WA 98145-1363 vox: (206) 632-9369 fax/modem: (206) 545-2868 e-mail: tntmusic at halcyon dot com tintmeister at pan dot com k dot oconner at genie dot geis dot com zzs32874 at pcvan dot or dot jp. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 09:27:06 +0100 From: zampino at panix dot com (Phil Z) Subject: Re: Discipline 147 >From: DINOKILLER at aol dot com >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 10:41:35 EDT >Subject: MessageFromPossibleProductions >Comments have been posted recently regarding the pricing of the new King >Crimson CD 'VROOOM' in light of it's mini-album length. Since I am >responsible for establishing the retail price, I would like to explain why >it is necessary. > >In the U.S., the retail list price is set at $16.98, commensurate with >production and manufacturing costs. I have received feedback from >retailers who agree that $16.98 is the right price, considering the >anticipation over it's release. Consequently, if I priced it lower, the >major music stores would still mark it to $16.98. Since that's the price >they will charge anyway, I'd rather a few more bucks go to King Crimson, >rather than to record retailers. The bottom line: VROOOM is a lot of music >for the money. Crimson is no small undertaking (there are many people to >pay) and VROOOM will help to make the music possible. Personally, reading into this argument decreases my desire to buy Vrooom- all I get out of it is: because people are excited about this release we can charge more for it, so we will. I realize Vrooom is an import, but it's still a mini-album, and the price is very steep... rather than forcing everyone to pay what the most overpriced mall record retailers would charge, I think it would be more considerate to allow those of us who shop around for a better price on our music to be able to find it for a lower price. I agree that if extra money is to be made that Crimson is the best recipient for that money. However, if I can afford to buy two cd's the week that I buy Vrooom then both Crimson and some other band, perhaps a less well-known and struggling group, could also benefit. My .02 Phil Z [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 10:14:29 CDT From: oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com Subject: why the Breeders kick ass After Rich Schiavi slammed the Breeders, I felt compelled to reply, but of course the procrastination factor kept me from getting it in the last issue of Discipline. So for those who've forgotten, here are Rich's juicy tidbits: >This is interesting. I didn't know the Breeders were from SW Ohio. Too bad >they didn't stay there, I hate them, and I guess that is why Rob Fetters >(Psychodots guitarist) was poking fun at the guitar playing being terrible >when I saw them. >I heard the Breeders guitarist (that is a complement) joined the band >cuz she was the sister of the leader and didn't even know how to play guitar, >so just learned, quoted as saying, "It isn't that hard". Uh, >yeah, isn't hard to suck at I guess :-) >Sorry to flame on them, but it is a *real* shame Psyhodots are >getting overlooked. I enjoyed the Breeder's "Last Splash" as much as Sylvian/Fripp's "The First Day". In fact, it actually works to their benefit that they suck technically. They have no alternative but to work as a team to let the music come through. And somehow it works. I thought it was interesting to hear that Belew does a lot of composing at the piano, since he can't really play piano. Maybe the Psychodots should start playing in straight-jackets. see ya, david -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ::: David Oskardmay oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com ::: ::: Motorola Corporate Systems Research Lab, Schaumburg, IL ::: ::: Phone: 708-576-2388 Fax: 708-576-8378 ::: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 13:32:40 -0800 From: arnold at lumina dot com (Brian Arnold) Subject: Why Japan and what VROOOM Re: Vector at eworld dot com's "Fripp in Japan" post on Discipline #147. Fripp, Sylvian and King Crimson are very popular in Japan. As Fripp notes in the Great Deceiver boxed set booklet, there are hundreds of bootlegs of Crimson to be found in Japanese record stores. Fripp can afford to play there, create legitimate collector's items and raise money for US tours. Japan is a place where Sylvian, Fripp, Gunn and the California Guitar Trio can play together without recorded music to support them. It might be possible to do that in the US, but it's extremely difficult to get promotion for a band that isn't supporting a product, especially a new band. This is why most indie bands have such a hard time booking shows even in bars. But Fripp has had many "small" performances in the US during the '80's and '90's, notably with the League of Crafty Guitarists. I went to a ballroom show in VA in '85 and donated $7.50 to help repair the mansion's roof. But organizing shows larger than these, even in large US cities, is difficult without a promoter, a product, and a packet of money. And it's a big country. The String Quintet did play dates in the US; I saw them at the Great American Music Hall in SF, and at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz, both relatively small auditoriums, and they played elsewhere including the east coast. In contrast, Bruford and Holdsworth aborted their attempt to play together and tour last year because their record companies wouldn't put up the money necessary to eek out a CD or a tour. So life is hard. The String Quintet Live in Japan video was available for sale at US Quintet shows and is available via mail order (if it hasn't sold out). As Mark Perry's post on Discipline #147 indicates, you'll be able to get the non-Signature Series VROOOM in the US at reasonable prices ($14.99 + $2.00 shipping). I'm going to support the band and get the Signature Series. Mark also implied that some major retail chains are going to stock the VROOOM CD. So even if you don't mail-order VROOOM, you might find it at your local favorite well-stocked chain in late November. - Brian ---------------- Brian Arnold arnold at lumina dot com Director of Software Development Lumina Decision Systems, Inc. http://www.lumina.com/lumina/ ---------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Chuck Ivy Subject: Sara Hickman & Crimsonites Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 19:37:34 -0500 (CDT) Well, I have "Necessary Angels" in my CD-ROM as I write this, and the album is definitely growing on me... For those of you currious, the following songs contain Crimson members (and other non-Crimson session players of note) in the listed capacities... "Pursuit of Happiness" Adrian Belew - Electric Guitars Tony Levin - Bass Jerry Marotta - Drums, percussion David Sancious - Piano, keys "Sister and Sam" Pierce Pettis - acoustic guitar "Room of One's Own" Adrian Belew - acoustic, Nashville, and electric guitars, mandolin, calliope, backing vocals Tony Levin - Bass Jerry Marotta - Drums, percussion David Sancious - Piano Also worth mentioning, she lists all of the people who donated money for her to buy her album back from the record label. Included, along with her dentist and her high school English teacher, are: Agnelo Badalamenti (composer of the Twin Peaks soundtrack) Austin City Limits (a PBS TV series she has played on) Michelle Shocked (feminist folk singer) and "Christy the Clown" (???) She also thanks "Adrian, 'don't do eet!', Tony & Maggie, for the tea party" Adrian & Tony I can identify. Who's Maggie? -- . _____________________________ /:| / / : =| Chapman Stick | Chuck Ivy \:|___________________/__/___:_=| White Oak #240 | cei at po dot cwru dot edu ++ 3 years and counting | cei at math dot uh dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ANDREA at eworld dot com Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 07:23:15 PDT Subject: about Gentle Giant CDs & other stuff >> kinda' makes one wonder when "In a Glass House" by Gentle >> Giant will ever make it to CD...""" Hi, (sorry for my english, I'm from Italy) for your info, all Gentle Giant albums are now on CD. From "In a glass house" on, in particular, all of them have been remastered by a label called "Road Goes On Forever". Pay attention, there are two CD versions of "The power and the glory" and "Free Hand", one remastered by RGOF and one not. Of course the first one is MUCH BETTER. So, if now you rush out of the door in search of them, remember to buy the RGOF version. If you are interested in GG, there is a newsletter called "Proclamation" written by a Swedish guy who is in contact with members of the band. There is a funny project in place to make them release a CD with new music only for subscribers of this fanzines ! I also know that RGOF label is going to release an official CD with the last GG concert in New York in 1980 (I've got a bootleg of this one). At last, there is also a Proclamation newsletter starting in these days on Internet. You can send you request to be part of the group at: MROSD at NETCOM dot COM@INTERNET# I attach you the mail I found on Apple eWorld regarding the newsletter/fanzine. Bye, Andrea (I'm a man, Italy is the only country where this name is for man.....everyone reply me saying "miss andrea"...bleah!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- In case you didn't know it, ALL Gentle Giant albums are available on CD. There is also an irregularly published newsletter/fan magazine available called "Proclamation: The Occasional Gentle Giant Newsletter." There have been three issues so far (as of 6/94) and each has gotten considerably larger than the previous one. It's good stuff. One issue has an article about Kerry Minnear including pictures of him & his family; another includes a letter >from Phil Shulman; and another includes a history of the band from the perspectives of various members. Beginning with the second issue there are notes about each album, including inside information about each song. There are addresses of people from whom you can buy hard to find bootlegs, some of which are pretty good. Plus a whole lot more. If you're a Gentle Giant fan, don't miss this. This newsletter is available through any one of the following addresses: Geir Hasnes Classica Forlag AS Ragnhilds Gt No: 10 N-7030 Trondheim Norway Pete Gray 2 Coniston Close Stukely Meadows Huntingdon Cambridge PE18 6UD England David Armas 3730 Stockbridge Avenue Los Angeles CA 90032 USA The cost is listed on some of the CDs as 6.00 pounds or $12.00 for 4 issues; but things change, so you're best off to send a little more than that and ask what it buys you. Ask for back issues. Finally, the best news of all. For subscribers to Proclamation, there is a possibility that Gentle Giant may make another CD!!! If so, it would be commisioned by fans like you and me. If you would be willing to pay about $75 for a new Gentle Giant CD, contact Geir Hasnes at the address above and let him know. He'll fill you in on the details. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 12:22:38 EDT From: cloutier at jupiter dot drev dot dnd dot ca (Louis Cloutier) Subject: Re: Gentle Giant > Not to drift too far from the subject, but Gentle Giant's "In a Glass > House" IS available on CD. I've had a copy for about a year now. Has > anyone seen "Playing the Fool" on CD yet? Every Gentle Giant album is available on CD, most of them at domestic prices (in Canada). I've got "Playing the Fool" for about a year. Here's a list of the albums and some info (based on my copies): Gentle Giant (70) PolyGram (Canada) Acquiring the taste (71) PolyGram (Canada) Three friends (72) CBS (Canada) Octopus (73) CBS (Canada) In a Glass House (73) Terrapin (?) The Power and the Glory (74) Capitol Records (USA) Free Hand (75) CEMA (Canada) Interview (76) Import only (UK?) Playing the Fool (76) ESSENTIAL! Records (France) The Missing Piece (77) (I've seen it; import only ???) Giant for a Day (78) (I've seen it; import only ???) Civilian (81?) (I've seen it; import only ???) Avoid everything after "Playing the Fool" .... (IMHO). -- Louis [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 15:39:40 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Request (Under Heavy Manners) >From Discipline 147 >I'd like to know whether fripp's "god save the queen/under heavy manners" >album exists on cd. if it does, i'd very much like to purchase it. >jay The tracks "God Save the King" (sic) and "Under Heavy Manners" exist on the Editions EG CD EEGCD9 "The League of Gentlemen/God Save the King" If the missing League of Gentlemen tracks (Indiscreet 1-3, Pareto Optimum 1-2; Minor Man; and Ochre) and God Save the queen Tracks have turned up anywhere, I don't know where (but would like to! Comments anyone?) James PS: Adrian Belew's new album "Here" is great! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 15 Sep 94 21:09:00 PST From: "Chris King" Subject: The Third Crimson Album "McDonald and Giles" Last issue Jacob noted correctly (IMHO) that the McDonald and Giles cd could be called the third KC album. Thank you to the guy on this list that turned me on to the Japanese pressing of the cd; I picked it up a couple days ago and the sound quality is wonderful. The fascinating thing about the music on this album was that McDonald and Giles wrote it apparently on the very first King Crimson tour in the US and some in England. For example, Suite in C, which starts the album, was "written in Detroit, Los Angeles, and Earls Court between December 1969 and February 1970." (By the way you Brits, what or where is "Earls Court"?) We had a discussion on this list as to whether there ever was a band that "covered" KC material. If McDonald and Giles were writing this material for KC (I'm making that assumption), isn't it almost like McDonald and Giles were the first cover band playing KC material, even though the material (to my knowledge reading through Fripp's various diaries) was never played by KC? Or something like that? Let me stretch out a bit on this next point. On McDonald and Giles "Flight of the Ibis", the liner notes say it was "the original melody of Cadence and Cascade, written in Spring 1969 with new words from Beep [B.P. Fallon]." I noted a few issues ago that you can quite easily sing the lyrics to Cadence and Cascade and have them fit this song. But I always thought that Cadence and Cascade, in Pete Sinfield's most oblique, weird way, was the story of how McDonald and Giles left King Crimson: >From Cadence and Cascade-- "Caravan hotel, where the sequin spell fell, custom of the game. Cadence oiled in love, licked his velvet gloved hand, Cascade kissed his name. Sad paper courtesan, they found him just a man." Hang in here with me, gang. I figured that the caravan hotel where the sequin spell fell, referred to the hotel just outside Big Sur in California where McDonald and Giles announced to Fripp (the "sad paper courtesan") that they were leaving the band. Cadence seems to be a play on the fact that Giles was the drummer. "Cascade" would refer to McDonald if you're still with me in some way. "Cadence and Cascade kept a man named Jade cool in the shade", I figured might refer to Fripp's sitting during a performance. "Purred, whispered, 'Spend us, too.' We merely serve for you." I wonder if this bit about "we merely serve for you" was their way (really Sinfield's way) of saying Mc & G resented the way Fripp seemed to be taking over control of KC. So maybe I'm on another planet. Buy the McDonald and Giles cd because the music is simply wonderful and has the wonderful musicianship of the "Court of the Crimson King" without the damned bleakness of so much of that album. Listen to M&G's "Birdman" and think that it probably should have replaced either "Epitaph" or "MoonChild" on that first album. Has anybody heard anything from Ian McDonald lately? Best Wishes, Chris [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ----- ADMINISTRIVIA ----- ** POSTINGS Please send all postings to Toby Howard, at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** SUBSCRIPTIONS/ADDRESS CHANGES USA subscribers: please contact Ken Bibb at elephant-talk-request at arastar dot com. Non-USA subscribers: please contact Toby Howard, at elephant-talk-request at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** ARCHIVES The Elephant Talk archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/elephant-talk. I'm sorry, but I cannot mail out back issues personally. (The directory may remain called /pub/music/lists/discipline for a little while.) ** WWW http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/elephant-talk.html ** LEGALESE The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]