From discipline at arastar dot com Mon Aug 15 13:36:13 1994 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 08:54:18 +0800 From: discipline at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: discipline at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Discipline 144 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 144, Sunday, 14 August 1994 Today's Topics: Rare pre-KC stuff? unpronouncable Re: Toyah, anyone? Live Wake.. Unpronouncable Belew "Never Enough" CD single Re: Unpronounceable Re: Unpronounceable Unpronouncable Linguistica pedantica New Crimson Sylvian/Fripp live KC Videos Avail.? Discipline 143 Belew NewCrimhead Stick(r) Albums Psychodots Re:TOYAH Best of Ambient Hammill imitates Fripp etc Peter Gabriel On Letterman 8-9 U.K.- one person's perspective/Starless and Bible Black my fripp autograph story [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 03 Aug 1994 15:38:58 -0230 From: Rod Taylor Subject: Rare pre-KC stuff? Howdy! My first posting here... Long live the King! Anyway, to the point. I recently picked up a copy of 'The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp' on CD. Interesting, to say the least. It's an album they recorded about 1966, before the KC machine got going. Anyway, if anyone's interested in a copy, get in touch with me. No charge, of course - not trying to make money, just trying to share a rare (?) recording with fellow Kc fans! rodt ;-) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 14:13:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Larry Roger Nittler Subject: unpronouncable David Hollister sez: >While in a collectable type record shop one day, I saw up on the wall this >album "Unpronouncable" which is a purple cover with a yellow picture of the >impossible three-pronged illusion (whatever you call it). Sure enough, >it's a live album. The sound quality is not good. It is put out by EG >records. I presume it was released in early 1985. I of course bought it. I have this bootleg LP; it is not on EG records, it's on EGG records. I thought the sound quality was quite good but then again, I was not expecting a legitimate record company release. I think the recording might be taken from the the Live in Jaspan video. At least, it is labeled as live in Japan and Bruford' electronic drum solo at the beginning of Indiscipline sounds the same to me. Larry ___________________________________________________________________________ | Larry R. Nittler Human beings were invented by water as | | lrn at howdy dot wustl dot edu a means of transporting itself from | | Interstellar Dust Buster one place to another. -- Tom Robbins | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 15:24:14 EDT From: Ron Peterson Subject: Re: Toyah, anyone? >As I have been receiveing the newsletter Discipline for a while now, I have >yet to see very many mentions of the beloved Toyah Willcox. Is there (and >I smile as I type this) a Toyah fan club out there? I have been a loyal >fan of hers since Sheep farming in Barnet. Why aren't there any pics that >I could download? If there is anyone at all associated with fripp and KC >that deserves jpg's or gif's, it's Toyah. Gosh, does this make me a >flamer? I've tried a few comments but no one else seems interested. She supposedly has a fan club at: Tellurian, BM Toy, London WC1N 3XX England I've tried writing once and got no reply. Perhaps if a self addressed airmail envelope was included... I have some very nice scans of her album covers that a fellow fan did for me that I could upload. Tell me how and where and I will. I'd be interested in hearing more about a fan club and especially about how to get hold of a copy of her videos which seem to be out of print. She seems to have been quite active as an actress also, with many movies and TV shows to her credit: Quadrophenia, The Tempest, Quatermass,... Ron ron at vicorp dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 14:27:53 -0500 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: Live Wake.. >From Discipline #143: >From: terry kroetsch f > .... >P.S. I have that WONDERFUL 1969-70 BBC In the Court of the Crimson King >performance (that one song) but is there more from that session? And >nothing from Wake of Poseidon performed live EVER? Let's see, Devil's Triangle (aka Mars) certainly was (see complaints about this very song by a reviewer in Fripp's clipplings collection). Cat Food is of course on Great Deceiver (and Groon is on Earthbound). Peace-a theme was played, although often not heard over the noisy audience. I don't have any ROIO's from that era, so I can't fill in more, but I'd be very surprised if Pictures of a City wasn't played... -===-John R. Nash-==-nash at chem dot wisc dot edu-==-UW-Madison Chem. Dept-===- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 12:31:32 -0700 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Unpronouncable dhollist at iphase dot com (David Hollister): > While in a collectable type record shop one day, I saw up on the wall this > album "Unpronouncable" which is a purple cover with a yellow picture of the > impossible three-pronged illusion (whatever you call it). Sure enough, > it's a live album. The sound quality is not good. It is put out by EG > records. I presume it was released in early 1985. I of course bought it. > Since then, though, I have never seen nor heard of any other copies of this > record. This is a bootleg. It is certainly not an EG release though it may proclaim itself as such. I believe that the audio was taken from an MTV broadcast of a 3 of a Perfect Pair show in Japan - I think the same show was later released on VHS and laser - but the lp may have sound taken directly from a broadcast VHS dub. Getting a tape of the audio tracks from a Laser disc of the 3oaPP in Japan show would probably be preferable to the audio quality on this. I'll entertain offers to buy my copy of Unpronouncable if anyone really wants it. - malcolm [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Belew "Never Enough" CD single Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 15:37:58 EDT I've heard Belew's "Never Enough" promo CD single features three non-LP cuts. Can anyone confirm this? ----------------------- Anil Prasad wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Re: Unpronounceable Date: Wed, 03 Aug 1994 16:03:17 EDT From: Michael Murphy >From Discipline #143: > From: dhollist at iphase dot com (David Hollister) > Subject: Unpronouncable > > While in a collectable type record shop one day, I saw up on the wall this > album "Unpronouncable" which is a purple cover with a yellow picture of the > impossible three-pronged illusion (whatever you call it). Sure enough, > it's a live album. The sound quality is not good. It is put out by EG > records. I presume it was released in early 1985. I of course bought it. > Since then, though, I have never seen nor heard of any other copies of this > record. Don't let the fancy-looking jacket fool you... Look again, it's not "E'G" records, it's "EG'G" records, and their logo is a picture of an egg-shaped thing made to look SOMETHING like EG's logo. I'm pretty sure this is a complete bootleg. I kinda have to give them a little credit for making it look that good, though. Many bootlegs i've seen barely have a title on the spine, a picture of the band glued to a plain whiiiiiiite jacket, and plain white labels on the records. This one was made to look ALMOST like one of the 80's trilogy; they even copied the text font, and listed the songs and playing credits in the same fashion. > Anybody else out there own this? Can anybody provide more details about it? > Is it of any value? I've only played it about 5 times and it is in pretty > much mint condition. I guess that purchase makes up for the complete idiocy > I must have been experiencing when I sold my LP of Earthbound :( Yeah, i've got a copy -- a friend who was just starting to get heavily into 80's Crimson (he had just picked up Beat and then Discipline) found it in a record store and thought it was the next thing he needed, so he picked it up. He was so disappointed in the sound quality that he just gave it to me. Being a bootleg, i don't imagine it has any REAL value, although you could probably resell it to a die-hard fan desperate for some live Crimson. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 17:41:03 CDT From: "Eric Fischer" Subject: Re: Unpronounceable David "dhollist at iphase dot com" Hollister wrote, > While in a collectable type record shop one day, I saw up on the wall this > album "Unpronouncable" which is a purple cover with a yellow picture of the > impossible three-pronged illusion (whatever you call it). Sure enough, > it's a live album. The sound quality is not good. It is put out by EG > records. I think if you give it a closer look, you'll see that the label is not EG, but "EGG"! I saw this in a record shop two weeks ago, in Indianapolis, but couldn't justify spending the money on it. Whoever's responsible did a *brilliant* job of faking the Discipline-era cover art, though. Most impressive. Eric enf1 at ellis dot uchicago dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 21:40:39 -0600 From: mglee1 at students dot wisc dot edu (Michael Lee) Subject: Unpronouncable David Hollister said in the last issue how he found a record by EG records called "Unpronouncable". David, if you look carefully, you'll notice it is on EGG records. It's a bootleg. :-) The packaging for it is very good. It has been around for six or so years, at least. (A friend of mine had it at one point.) Michael Lee "I have been here many times before michaell at cs dot wisc dot edu In a life I used to live...." mglee1 at students dot wisc dot edu Marillion - Made Again, Brave My home page [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Mr M P Hughes Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 10:21:01 BST Subject: Linguistica pedantica >> Here's a few tantalizing bits of info on the new Crimson mini-CD called >> "Frooom" or "Vrooom" depending on who you talk to. > > I couldn't help but note that if "Vrooom" were a German word, it would > be pronounced "Frooom". :-) Which made me realise that if Froom were a Welsh word, it'd be pronounced "vrooom"! (Froom in welsh would be spelt Ffroom, and there's no V in the alphabet). Does Fripp have any Welsh connections? :-D ================================================================= Michael Pycraft Hughes pycraft at sees dot bangor dot ac dot uk Institute of Molecular & Biomolecular Electronics Dean St, Bangor, North Wales, U.K. LL65 1UT "Tune in Moscow, tune in New York - listen to the Welsh kid talk" ================================================================= [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Possible Productions Subject: New Crimson VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM This was recorded between May 2-7th, 1994 during the first full reheasals of this, the double trio formation of King Crimson. We present VROOOM as a calling card, rather than a love letter, to those generous enough to give it ears. Partial Track Listing 1. VROOOM 2. Cage 3. One Time 4. Thrak 5. Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream 6. Title not available Release date - October This will be available as a limited Signature Series available from Possible Productions. VROOOM will be signed by all six members and will cost $19.99 plus shipping and handling. If you are not on Possible Productions mailing list and would like to be please (for now) send a letter or postcard with your address to: Possible Productions, 351 Magnolia Ave. , Long Beach , California, 90802. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 04 Aug 94 15:35:27 EDT From: "N. Rob Leas" <74511 dot 775 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Sylvian/Fripp live Most of you may well already know this, but I found this on the recent posting of upcoming releases from Virgin on Compuserve. October 18, 1994 Sylvian/Fripp "Live" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Robert J. Holub" Subject: KC Videos Avail.? Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 18:17:16 EDT I'm looking for a copy of either Crimson vid released in the mid-1980s. I've got a couple boots of the 1970s and 1980s groups I'd be willing to dub off as trades. Any info. would be way cool. -bOB rjh6x at Virginia dot EDU [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: r dot dittmeier at genie dot geis dot com Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 04:20:00 UTC Subject: Discipline 143 > From: dhollist at iphase dot com (David Hollister) Subject: Unpronouncable > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 12:30:21 -0500 (CDT) > Hey all. I've been lurking on the list for a little while and I'm > curious... I've been a Crimson fan for about 10 years now. Shortly > after I started getting into them, they broke up. I had heard word > that a live album was supposedly in the works to follow Three of a > Perfect Pair. > While in a collectable type record shop one day, I saw up on the wall > this album "Unpronouncable" which is a purple cover with a yellow > picture of the impossible three-pronged illusion (whatever you call > it). Sure enough, it's a live album. The sound quality is not good. > It is put out by EG records. I presume it was released in early 1985. > I of course bought it. Since then, though, I have never seen nor heard > of any other copies of this record. > Anybody else out there own this? Can anybody provide more details > about it? Is it of any value? I've only played it about 5 times and it > is in pretty much mint condition. I guess that purchase makes up for > the complete idiocy I must have been experiencing when I sold my LP of > Earthbound :( -- > David Hollister Software Engineering dhollist at iphase dot com > Interphase Corp. Dallas, TX 214-919-9303 I have that record. It's a bootleg made up to resemble the legitimate releases. If you take a closer look, you'll see the company is "Egg" rather than EG. The graphic on the front is an optical illusion I've seen in various books. It also showed up in Mad Magazine a few times, many years ago. Not something I'd expect Fripp to put on an album cover. Also, I'd hate to think a legitimate record company would release an album with copy that's as hard to read as this one. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: bjacobs at mintaka dot SDSU dot Edu (William J Jacobs) Subject: Psychodots Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 21:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Are Psychodots albums generally available or will I have to mail order from them directly? If the latter, can anyone give me the correct address? Bill jacobs William Jacobs | "You can pretend to be serious; you can't Astronomy Dept., San Diego State | pretend to be witty." -- Sacha Guitry bjacobs at mintaka dot sdsu dot edu | "Everybody likes a kidder, but nobody All others are imposters! | lends him money." -- Arthur Miller [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ANDREA at eworld dot com Date: Fri, 05 Aug 94 06:56:05 PDT Subject: NewCrimhead Hi all, I'm a new italian KC fan joining the Discipline list. I'm very happy to find all these people talking of one of my favourite groups. Just a few comments on some topics from older discussions: - Thela Hun Ginjeet is an acronym of Heat in the jungle (from an old A.Belew interview). Am I late ? - Bruford played and toured also with a great band called National Health (Canterbury scene) before join UK. NA recorded three albums ("NA" "Of Queues of Cures" "DS al Coda") that I love. Last year a 2CD box-set came out called "NA-Complete" which contains all the 3 albums plus unreleased and live tracks. The first track is a live one, taken from a radio session, feauting Bruford and Steve Hillage too. It's beautiful and the quality is perfect too ! IT'S A MUST. *National Helath-Complete - ESD 80402/412 - East Side Digital, 200 North 3rd Avenue, Minneapolis MN 55401* - I'm extremely happy about BB to be in KC again. I've always thought that Marotta is one of the worst drummer in the business, also on P.Gabriel era I found his style disgusting and boring. Someone criticezed Alan White.....White is millions of time better than Marotta and during the Yes Union tour I must admit he was better than BB too....sad to say. - Torn "Cloud about Mercury" is a fantastic album and I think its one of the best example of Bruford "master strokes", no one is able to 'think' the things he can play.....he was light years ahead of times. Ciao Andrea [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 06 Aug 1994 21:15:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Ray Ashley Subject: Stick(r) Albums in Discipline 143: >In Gunn's case--we discussed the subject of how he felt about fitting in in >the juggernaut '90s crimson. Having spoken with him at length and also >listenned to "1000 Years" quite a bit (IMO this is THE definitive stick >recording to date--not without some filler/experimental tracks I don't find >very interesting--but with enough that stands out that I'd readily >recommend it)... He felt Levin's approach to the stick was that there were I love this album too, but to call it THE "definitive Stick(r) recording" is, I feel, a bit misleading. My point is this: Trey's album is more representitive of his (highly Fripp influenced) personal style. I don't think that the classic clean Stick sound shows its face once throughout the album's length. Also, many Stick players enjoy playing complete pieces live, like a pianist playing a complete piece of music at the keyboard. Many of us enjoy hearing this experience, as well. Trey's approach to the Stick (at least on this album) is rather like Rick Wakeman's approach to a keyboard album - lots of layers, lots of sounds - but impossible to reproduce live with only two hands. Both Wakeman and Gunn orchestrate their sounds for maximum effect. So the question still stands: What is the definitive Stick album? I'd start with Bob Culbertson's "Stick", which is not my persoanl favorite but which does incorporate the Stick in many situations: clean and solo, distorted heavy metal, jazz standards, Beatles covers, the works - and Bob's technique is, by many stick players' admission - the best around. Two great Stick albums released this year are Steve Hahn's "Stickburst" and Greg Howard's "Shapes". Both these albums feature live, up front, burning Stick playing with percussion accompaniment. "Shapes" is my favorite Stick album to date, I really like Greg's compositions a lot. On "Stickburst" there are 3 Gentle Giant covers (great taste) and some quality original stuff, too. For purists who like to hear the Stick solo, live, unaccompanied, and with no overdubs there are Greg Howard's "Stick Figures" and Frank Joliffe's "Solo Stick". "Stick Figures" features those Howard compositions I dig, while "Solo Stick" is a straight ahead jazz album featuring originals and standards. All the albums I mention above are available via mail order, e-mail me if you want information. I am posting this because I want to dispell the widely held misconception that the Stick is a Crimsoid creation, a weird instrument, etc. Most Stick players don't use the racks of FX that Levin and Gunn have at their disposal. This does make their music better or worse - its all really a matter of personal taste. I can end where I began by calling Trey Gunn's album the Definitive Stick album - for King Crimson fans. If you dig 80's Crimson, then "1,000 Years" and the RFSQ "Bridge Between" should be on your 'must have' list. Ray A. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 11:10:06 -0400 (EDT) From: MERRILL TRITT Subject: Belew lyrics Does anyone out there have transcriptions of Belew's lyrics - or possibly know of an ftp site that has them? I have searched but have come up emtpy handed. Listening to his work would be much more enjoyable if I could only decipher a garbled phrase here and there. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Merrill Tritt mtritt01 at servax dot fiu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 09:15:14 -0400 (EDT) From: terry kroetsch f Subject: Re:TOYAH I realize the person who asked the question "Is there a Toyah fan club out there" was asking the rhetorical, I thought I would post the address of the real Toyah Fan Club just in case. They do indeed mention Fripp all the time.............. Damn - thought I had it - lost it! Anyone out there have it? Sorry [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 13:58:03 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: Best of Ambient Vol II I hear that a new release from Virgin titled " History of Ambient Vol. II " will be available on Aug 23rd. Three of the tracks are with Robert Fripp. 1. Wind on Water - Fripp & Eno 2. Bringing Down the Light - Sylvian/Fripp (unreleased mix) 3. Water Music - Robert Fripp Also scheduled for release is " Damage" Sylvian/Fripp live. It's due for release Oct 18th. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: RAMIZ at vms dot huji dot ac dot il@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 14:23 +0300 Subject: Hammill imitates Fripp etc Last week i received a tape of the VdGG show help in the Marquee club back in 29/7/76. In between almost every two songs (btw the gig is very very good at places and pretty bad in others) PH does a Fripp imitation apparently trying to restore RF's English west country accent... I don't know how often has he done that and i can tell you that from the little i've managed to understand RF is getting a very cold shower here :*> The best one is probably the one where PH goes "my, my" in the wake of Easy Money... i didn't realize it was Fripp saying that there. o o ^ Rami. p.s. to the person who asked about the BBC KC session what i have from it is: Epitaph - almost identical to album version. In the Court... - with changed lyrics at places. Get Thy Bearings - the only version i've heard, great imo. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 10 Aug 94 09:57:49 EDT From: Suntower Systems <70242 dot 1520 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Peter Gabriel On Letterman 8-9 I saw Peter Gabriel on David Letterman's last night and was wondering what the heck Tony Levin had on his fingers to play bass? He was wearing what looked like 3-4" tubes on the two playing fingers of his right hand. He slapped the strings with them as extensions of his thumbs. They appeared to be made of metal and reminded me of chinese finger 'handcuffs'. Anyone know what I'm talking about and can provide some background info: -why he plays this way? -what those tubes are? -how long he's been doing this? -what other tunes he has used these on? Thanks, jc Harris PS. Still looking for King Crimson posters. Anyone know where I can get any? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 11:17:23 +0400 (EDT) From: "Robert A. Bartz" Subject: U.K.- one person's perspective/Starless and Bible Black After reading about the aformentioned band in this digest, I decided to get a hold of these recordings myself. First, I got "U.K.", and was pleasantly surprised. Allan Holdsworth is, and probably will always be, one of the most underrated guitar players out there, and he dazzles us on this record. Of course the rest of the band is not lacking in talent, either. Wetton delivers great vocals, especially on "In The Dead Of Night" and "Nevermore". Jobson's keyboards add needed texture to each song, and what can I say about Bruford? Probably in the top three drummers to have ever lived. A great album, overall. Then yesterday, I picked up "Danger Money", depite many warnings from others. Upon playing it, however, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it the second time, as well as the third. There's no guitar on this album, but it doesn't really seem missed considering the style of music. Bozzio's drumming is tremendous, as is to be expected. The songs are well written, and played well to boot. I really don't see why people put down this album. It's just another U.K. album in the same vein as the first, but no Holdsworth. Anyway, I like both of these, and it's a shame that Wetton went from this to something like Asia (not that I don't mind Asia, but U.K. could have continued further). I also got my own copy of "Starless and Bible Black" over the past week, and what a fine recording it is. My only negative comment is the lyrics on "The Great Deceiver". Not the most, um, INTELLIGENT lyrics that Wetton or whoever wrote, but the song is still good. And to think most of that was improv, WOW! What a band. Let's hope they still have that fire for the next album. Bob -- rbartz at telerama dot lm dot com "I never doubted the teachers, only the Laceration, the newest name lessons they taught." - Flotsam and Jetsam, in metal...coming soon! "Swatting At Flies" Jack Kemp in '96 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 17:28:41 -0600 From: shap0005 at gold dot tc dot umn dot edu (David Shapiro) Subject: my fripp autograph story I've recently signed up for Discipline and am enjoying reading all the back issues chock-full of fascinating Frippery and King Crimsonia. I have an autograph story to contribute, too: In 1984, (or maybe it was 1983) I was living in Los Angeles doing syndicated radio shows for a program called "The BBC Rock Hour." We'd interview Rock Stars and build radio programs to support the release of their new albums. I wasn't too nervous interviewing David Lee Roth or Rob Halford, but when it came time to do an interview with R.F., I was basically, a babbling nut case. After the interview, I asked him if he would "put his John Hancock" on a copy of "Discipline" that I had brought along. I guess he misunderstood me, because he signed the album, "To John Hancock...Robert Fripp." I considered changing my name legally to John Hancock, but thought better of it in the end. And there's anybody on this list named "John Hancock," hey, I've got an autographed copy of Discipline you would love. +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | D. A. Shapiro | | | Department of Philosophy | "I'm a ventriloquist... | | University of Minnesota | but my dummy is a mime. | | Minneapolis, MN 55455 | -- Ralf Leland | | shap0005 at student dot tc dot umn dot edu | | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ----- ADMINISTRIVIA ----- ** POSTINGS Please send all postings to Toby Howard, at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** SUBSCRIPTIONS/ADDRESS CHANGES USA subscribers: please contact Ken Bibb at discipline-request at arastar dot com. Non-USA subscribers: please contact Toby Howard, at discipline-request at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** ARCHIVES The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. I'm sorry, but I cannot mail out back issues personally. ** WWW http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/discipline.html ** LEGALESE The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only. Discipline is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Thanks for reading Discipline! Toby Howard http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]