From discipline at arastar dot com Fri Jul 8 16:38:48 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 13:19:42 +0800 From: discipline at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: discipline at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Discipline 142 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 142, Friday, 8 July 1994 Today's Topics: Torn Email list Belew In Milwaukee Discipline #141 _The First Day_, Vinyl and CD Re: Strings Belew/KC popularity quantum fluctuations are not metaphysical bullshit Attention San Diego Readers.... Review: Adrian Belew in Milwaukee 6/29/94 Darshan 12"/CD Anyone in NYC? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: The editor Hi everyone. We now have a WWW site, at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/discipline.html I'm out of the office for a few weeks now, so the next issue should be out around 1 August. Anyway, until normal service is resumed, I'll take this opportunity to wish you all a happy summer, whether you're holidaying or working or -- by some feat of magic -- combining the two. Have fun. Best wishes Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 15:26:16 CDT From: oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com Subject: Torn Email list Howdy Discipline folk, The Torn Emailing list is currently being administrated by two people: br at informatics dot rutherford dot ac dot uk (Brian Ritchie) pcole at sseyod dot demon dot co dot uk (Pete Cole) Send Email to them if you're interested. I sure hope they don't mind more subscribers. :-) Regards, david -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ::: David Oskardmay oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com ::: ::: Motorola Corporate Systems Research Lab, Schaumburg, IL ::: ::: Phone: 708-576-2388 Fax: 708-576-8378 ::: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: d dot zemel at genie dot geis dot com Date: Sat, 2 Jul 94 14:44:00 UTC Subject: Belew In Milwaukee Tonight, I made my annual pilgrimage to Shank Hall, here in Milwaukee, to see Adrian Belew on his current tour. As always (and I do mean always), it was well worth whatever effort it took to be there. Psychodots (the Belewless Bears) opened the show and wowed us all, in their own right. Playing incredible pop, layered and varied, reminding more than just me of the Beatles, each of the three musicians displayed incredible talent. Rob Fetters is an amazing guitarist and vocalist, Chris Arduser a fabulous drummer, vocalist and mandolin player and Bob Nyswonger a tireless and flawless bass guitarist. Adrian came out and just blew away the crowd which was already more than halfway there, as a result of Psychodots. Although there was a heavy emphasis on his latest CD, Here, he also played a healthy batch of Bears, King Crimson and other solo songs. However, the songs from the Bears and King Crimson were virtually identical to the selection he'd played on the Inner Revolution tour. All four musicians appeared, quite convincingly, to be having a genuinely good time up there. The rapport, both musically and emotionally, between them all was something to just sit back and appreciate. The three part vocals, shared by Chris, Rob and Adrian were just beauty to behold and the effort expended by all four was exhausting, just to watch. Those of us who were ferverent fans enough to wait a bit longer were rewarded by all four coming out and chatting with those fans. All happily signed autographs and seemed pleased to chat away with the fans. Adrian confirmed that things were going very well with the reformed King Crimson and said that a tour would follow the new album. I asked if Bill Bruford was, indeed, part of the lineup and he confirmed that Bill was aboard. I reminded him that he had previously said that Bill wasn't going to be in the new group because of friction with Robert and Adrian's answer was "hell, it's Robert's group and he can have Bill if he wants to"! He said that there were 6 members in all and he gave a good laugh when I said that I heard there were two drummers, three if you counted him. His response was "well, two and a half anyway"! I mentioned this newsgroup as where I'd heard that Bill was in the band after all and he said he was familiar with Discipline and thought it was pretty cool. Hot Damn!!!!! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 02 Jul 1994 11:36:22 -0400 (EDT) From: LENNBOB at delphi dot com Subject: Discipline #141 >> And now for something completely different: Ramiz wrote about the Darshan remixes and noticed a writing credit for "Cobain". If my memory serves me correctly, sometime in the past year or so, Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers was interviewed in Musician, and he mentioned that he had done some sessions with Fripp and Kurt Cobain. Unfortunately, I have long since thrown out that issue, so I can't check it for accuracy. Someone else out there might still have the issue... << The "Cobain" credited on that particular remix of "Darshan" is Gary Cobain of Future Sound of London. On the latest FSOL album, Lifeforms, Fripp appears on the track "Flak". Kevin lennbob at delphi dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: heck at husc dot harvard dot edu Subject: _The First Day_, Vinyl and CD Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 00:20:54 -0400 (EDT) There has been a bit of confusion about this matter since my first post about it. What I said in my first post was wrong, but the correction which was made (and with which I too quickly agreed) was even more wrong. So I am going to try again. Just start over. I re-post for two reasons. First, the differences are quite interesting and might reveal something about the album. And secondly, there's been enough confusion about this to make me wonder whether there is not a quite different version of the LP out there--perhaps, a single LP. I came back from a recent trip to Britain with an LP of _The First Day_. Much to my surprise, the song order was different from that on the CD. The song orders are as follows: Side of LP CD A God's Monkey God's Monkey Jean the Birdman Jean the Birdman Brightness Falls Firepower B Firepower Brightness Falls Bringing Down the Light 20th Century Dreaming C 20th Century Dreaming Darshan D Darshan Bringing Down the Light As you can see, there are a couple of differences. (But note: No missing songs on the LP.) It is quite difficult to understand why the song order should be as it is. One natural hypothesis is that the CD is in the "natural" or "correct" order, and that the difference is due to limitations of the LP format. In particular, putting "Darshan" and "Bringing Down the Light" together on the fourth side would make for one VERY long side--about 25'48". Not insanely long, but it would definitely compromise sound quality. This, though, does not explain the swap between "Firepower" and "Brightness Falls". Putting "Firepower" on side B, with "Bringing", makes it about 18'56"; side A is then 15'22". Leaving "Firepower" where it is on the CD, on the other hand, would make side A 19'32" and side B 14'36"--not a huge difference. So I wonder if, forced to put "Bringing" on either side A, B, or C (with "20th Century", which would have made for a 19'21" side), the decision was not made that a more natural song order could be found by making this additional switch. Who knows? Now, as I said, there was a lot of confusion about this before. In particular, it was said that "Bringing" was not on the LP. This would be a natural thing to do if one was releasing a single LP: Put "God's", "Jean", "Firepower", and "Brightness" on side A--total, 25'37"--and then "20th" and "Darshan" on side B--total, 29'07". Again, not unheard of, but not ideal. Does such a single LP exist? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Richard G. Heck, Jnr. HECK at HUSC4 dot HARVARD dot EDU "...[B]eing true is different from being taken to be true, whether by one or many or everybody, and in no case is to be reduced to it". --Gottlob Frege ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "David Altemir" Date: 5 Jul 1994 9:03:32 CDT6CST Subject: Re: Strings In Discipline 140 Ron Peterson writes > So when a >string gets close to it's breaking point what actually causes it to break? >A physicist might say that it's a quantum fluctuation. ..... Or, it seems possible that >the thought of a human being might exist on that same quantum level and >could cause changes at that level. The sum of all the fluctuations in >existance at any moment is what determines what happens. >> The >>reason there is an "indeterminacy" in the breakage point of a steel string >>has more to do with the varaiations in the both the material comprising the >>string and it's diameter.... Similarly, impurities in the steel composition >>will alter the yield strength of the string locally, thereby leading to >>"weak" spots in the string. Well, I'm a materials scientist and I'm intrigued by the recent turn this KC newsletter has taken into the field of materials. But, the failure of a guitar string has more to do with the distribution of existing microvoids in the material and inconsistencies in the manufacturing of the string (i.e., uneven heat treatment, variations in cold work, etc.) than just changes in diameter and impurity concentrations. ________________________________________________ David Altemir NASA/Johnson Space Center altemird at samnet dot jsc dot nasa dot gov (713) 483-6427 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 05 Jul 1994 09:23:17 -0500 (CDT) From: ALAFOSSE at macalstr dot edu Subject: Belew/KC popularity I have to add myself to the list of people who feel that there may be a much greater audience for KC than one might initially suspect. When Adrian Belew played First Avenue a few days ago (the show was very well attended, incidentally), the biggest crowd reactions came in response to his announcement that the band would be playing KC tunes (and to the tunes themselves). This surprised me quite a bit, since a lot of the members of the audience seemed more the type that would go for the more pop-oriented material of Belew's recent career (the fact that the show was being heavily promoted by the local soft-rock radio station cetainly fostered this notion). But as soon as the first chord to "Matte Kudasai" sounded, the place went NUTS. It was a pleasant (and rather bizarre) surprise. --Andre LaFosse alafosse at macalstr dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 11:55:56 -0700 From: David A. Craig Subject: quantum fluctuations are not metaphysical bullshit Gravitational waves and quantum fluctuations are quite real, not metaphysical bullshit. However, as was being described without being overly emphasized, the essential issue is the relative ORDER OF MAGNITUDE of various effects. Insofar as string breakage is concerned, quantum fluctuations and gravitational waves are not likely to be relevant. "Not likely" typically works out to numbers like "once per many lifetimes of the universe" sort of thing. Not something to base a practical metaphysics on. On the other hand, such small disturbances are very relevant to the order (more importantly, the disorder) of everday life. The gravitational effects of alpha centauri are sufficient to effectively randomize your basic box of gas, i.e. very few systems can treated as isolated for most purposes. This is the basis for the efficacy of the ergodic hypothesis and related assumptions in statistical mechanics, for instance. Moreover, the non-linearity of many physical systems (may i hazard one's brain?) can amplify small disturbances rapidly (key buzzword: lyapunov exponent), allowing a real possibility that small disturbances can influence macroscopic systems in practically unpredictable ways. I do not suspect that such effects are of great concern when it comes to predicting the spectrum of string-breakage phenomena. :) As noted, manufacturing, environmental, and historical variances are the dominant effects. friendly advice: never trust a scientist who is sure she completely understands [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: pvallado at sdcc5 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Attention San Diego Readers.... Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 13:42:53 -0700 (PDT) ..and anyone else who will be in the San Diego area on July 12 to see Adrian Belew perform at The Flash. I would like to meet some of you netters there. My email is given below. -- Paolo Valladolid pvallado at sdcc5 dot ucsd dot edu ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet newsletter |\ |dedicated to the discussion of music technology as applied to | | |guitar and other stringed intruments. To subscribe, send email | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 18:24:23 -0600 From: mglee1 at students dot wisc dot edu (Michael Lee) Subject: Review: Adrian Belew in Milwaukee 6/29/94 Adrian Belew Review World Wide Web access is My home page [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "J.S.Thomas" Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 17:29:15 BST Subject: Darshan 12"/CD Following the exchange between Ramiz, Stephen Baker and Eric Rutten on the 'Darshan' 12", I'll offer some rather prosaic words of clarification. I think that the 12" single is the equivalent of the CD, on which the 'Cobain' mentioned isn't Kurt (sadly), but Gary Cobain, one of the members of the Future Sound of London. The track 'Darshana' is a pretty thorough reworking of the Fripp/Sylvian material, which sounds far more like an FSOL track - nothing like the original - not entirely a bad thing, to my mind. The Grid remix, by contrast, can still be recognised as a version of 'Darshan' - also rather good. Fripp contributed (about 2 bars of Frippertronics!) to the last FSOL album, 'Lifeforms', and was involved in a bizarre 'live' concert that they piped down a modem to a radio station from their front room. Julian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 07 Jul 94 16:01:29 EDT From: "N. Rob Leas" <74511 dot 775 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Anyone in NYC? Greetings and salutations to all Criminals, Disciplinarians, and Fripp afficianados: This is my first submission to this newsletter, though I have been subscribed for some time. I've really enjoyed reading it and always look forward to the next issue. I've been a fan of Crimson for many years, and had the great fortune to see the last incarnation live twice. I'd also like to mention how much I like seeing discussion about KC splinter artists in this forum. I think it would be incredibly difficult to try to seperate the body that is Crimson from its many appendages & off-shoots. Anyway, I have recently relocated to Manhattan and have yet to meet any serious music fans. I probably would have had I been able to make to the recent Psychodots show, but enough of my grousing. Is there anyone in the New York City area interested in meeting or even having some sort of a gathering? Perhaps a listening party for Vroom/Froom? Does anyone know of any good bands local to the area? Cheers, Rob P.S. - I have a moderate collection of rare recordings, mostly audio, and I'm always interested in trading. If you are too, send me your list. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ----- ADMINISTRIVIA ----- ** POSTINGS Please send all postings to Toby Howard, at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** SUBSCRIPTIONS/ADDRESS CHANGES USA subscribers: please contact Ken Bibb at discipline-request at arastar dot com. Non-USA subscribers: please contact Toby Howard, at discipline-request at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** ARCHIVES The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. I'm sorry, but I cannot mail out back issues personally. ** WWW http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/discipline.html ** LEGALESE The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only. Discipline is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Thanks for reading Discipline! Toby Howard http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]