From discipline at arastar dot com Fri Jun 24 15:14:58 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 11:11:25 +0800 From: discipline at arastar dot com To: discipline at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Discipline 140 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 140, Friday, 24 June 1994 Today's Topics: David Torn Mailing List? Gordon Haskell looking for music publisher/consultant Guitar Craft Inquiry Strings Bruford/Gong Re: "Clouds About Mercury" Re: Adrian Belew/Psychodots review Lizard cover art First Day LP Etc. Gong Re:Cloud About Mercury Lizard = silas and rufus?? Earthstone-Kinesis Discs USA-Crimheads will love this. Myrbein Re: Cloud About Mercury Wetton, Asia, Holdsworth and... Darashan single Adrian At Wilbert's "Mercury" and "Soundscape" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] We now have a World Wide Web page, at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/discipline.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: David Torn Mailing List? Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 21:09:30 EDT This is an off topic post here, but can someone tell me what happened to the David Torn mailing list? I used to be subscribed to it, but I haven't received one in a long, long time... />/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/> Anil Prasad | "People feel Barney's unthreatening, but wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca | he could lead grown-ups to drugs." ac922 at freenet dot carleton dot ca | -- Michael Viner, author of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | "Final Exit (for Barney)" Date: 20 Jun 1994 11:03:01 CDT6CST Subject: Gordon Haskell looking for music publisher/consultant Dear KCers, I came upon the following post in rec.music.makers and thought it might be of general interest to King Crimson fans: >Anyone out there with some experience in songwriting or publishing? One of >my business associates has just landed a deal to represent Gordon Haskell ... >former lead vocalist of King Crimson ... in marketing some songs he's >written. Apparently, the songs are phenomenal. While my associate has had >some experience running a small independent label, he's never dealt with >publishing issues. Accordingly, we're looking for some guidance, contacts, >etc., to help us get a deal for Gordon. Any input would be greatly >appreciated. Feel free to send any comments or insights to: >rsmartinez at delphi dot com > >Thanks, >Robin S. Martinez ... rsmartinez at delphi dot com ________________________________________________ David Altemir NASA/Johnson Space Center altemird at samnet dot jsc dot nasa dot gov (713) 483-6427 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: BILLFORTH at aol dot com Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 13:53:29 EDT Subject: Guitar Craft Inquiry While there are no introductory Guitar Craft courses on the calendar for the U.S.A. currently, GC courses continue to be offered in other locations around the world according to need and demand (Europe, So. America and Japan at present.) For an update on Guitar Craft courses and activity, you should write (fax or Email is most reliable) to the new & improved GC Registrar for the Americas: Hernan Nunez Avenida Santa Fe 3044-1 Capital Federal Buenos Aires, BA Argentina FAX 54 1 8211372 Internet/email: fernando dot kabusacki at turbo dot net Very best wishes, Bill Forth, past GC Registrar [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 14:31:35 EDT From: Ron Peterson Subject: Strings > a real bitch to play? Fripp responded testily, "I'm telling you, it's > *not* the string gauges that are causing strings to snap," ending all > discussion on the matter. I agree with him to some extent. Even understanding metal fatigue and how the mechanics of tension and bending wire over edges can lead to breakage, there is a certain variability in when a string will actually break. You can't say that a string of .032 inches diameter bent at a point 2.3 feet from one end at a 30 degree angle will always break at exactly 15.7 pounds of tension. Sometimes it will be 14.9 pounds, sometimes 15.75 pounds. And sometimes it will break at the bend and sometimes in the middle. So when a string gets close to it's breaking point what actually causes it to break? A physicist might say that it's a quantum fluctuation. This singular event occurs that has a certain statistical predictability yet in and of itself is completely uncertain in location in time and space. Thus, the nature of the universe and how the universe happens and becomes and changes is what determines when the string actually breaks. It might be that a gravitational wave emanating from the collapse of a distance galaxy is what causes the fluctuation that triggers the break. Or, it seems possible that the thought of a human being might exist on that same quantum level and could cause changes at that level. The sum of all the fluctuations in existance at any moment is what determines what happens. Whether there is some outside influence that alters these fluctuations is a matter of individual belief. ron at vicorp dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 13:47:41 -0700 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Bruford/Gong As far as I've heard, Bruford was with Gong in November '74 for a tour of France, putting it a lot closer to the demise of KC (last concert in July '74 & studio some stuff shortly after that?) than "sometime in 1975" that Bruford thought he had played with them. There is one live tape of a Le Mans 11/74 show I'm aware of but the copy I heard so so saturated in hiss that it wasn't much worth the effort trying to tell if it was Bill or what he was doing. This poem from Daevid Allen about Bill in Gong seems to suggest that Bruford was perhaps put off by the craziness of the group on or offstage - perhaps from living with them on their commune/farm? - - - - - - "Poem To Bill Bruford: `You look quite young, except your hands. You have old hands. ' I look at my hands... They look like I died last Saturday. `I couldn't stay in this band, you all think differently than me, you drive me mad. ha ha ha.' `I just couldn't do it' he added joyfully. Bloomdido says, hopefully, last angle, `We are a community of hermits' * `I like your playing' he said, gay-ly zooming in on Bloom, `It's binging fantastic!' " ** - - - - By Daevid Allen, as read 8/91 at a poetry reading at Small Press Traffic Books in San Francisco; an event I provoked... * = pronounced with exaggerated french accent ** = it sounded like "binging" but may have been some other word? As far as Daevid Allen goes, what I enjoy is not his musicianship but his personality and charm. I think he's an adequate guitar player and he deserves credit for being the guy who watched Syd Barrett play raw glissando guitar and adapting and refining it. Had Allen not taken the glissando style of playing to the level he did it's doubtful that Hillage would have even stumbled across the technique. Certainly Hillage took it a step further with his highly polished playing, but Daevid's glissing can be one of the most beautiful aspects of his music or Gong's and he deserves credit for it even when it's Hillage playing gliss along-side Daevid. And Allen's music and stories have had a profound impact on my life - inside the silly stories and mythology there's a solid foundation of pointers to zen, enlightenment and spirituality and to searching for and finding oneself. Just my $.02 on it all... as a confused teen my listening to Gong did a lot more to set me in a healthy direction than Pink Floyd or King Crimson's lyrics. Daevid Allen and Robert Fripp seem nearly diametrically opposed to me. Allen believes strongly in breaking the barriers between audience and performer by breaking down the traditional stage/audience barriers. Thus Daevid will start many shows by coming down off the stage and joining hands with the audience. And he ends his shows in a similar fashion, often jumping off the stage to dance with the crowd. He sees us all as one - I am you and you are me - and we are all experiencing this together. Contrast this to Fripp's stolid stage presence and manner and the distanced objectification of "Fripp" this creates. Allen seems impassioned and overflowing with expressions of emotion and personality and Fripp seems impassive and unwilling to offer more than the music itself to speak for him. I'm not suggesting that either is right or wrong, just that their personalities and ideas about relating to audiences are about as far apart as their music. BTW, just to clear this up as it comes up occasionally - despite some Yes cd box bio and some drumming books claiming Bruford recorded with Gong or appears on Gong lps there's no evidence that supports this and no known recordings other than live/bootleg material from the 11/74 French Gong tour (and the Le Mans tape really isn't worth going out of your way for). - Malcolm [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mathias at tarkus dot ocis dot temple dot edu (mathias thallmayer) Subject: Re: "Clouds About Mercury" Date: Sun, 19 Jun 94 11:11:18 EDT Look for "Clouds About Mercury" under David Torn (guitarist). The line-up, as I recall, was Torn, Bruford, Levin, and Mark Isham (trumpet). Mick Karn couldn't make the album so they used Levin, however Karn was the bassist on the tour. Bruford was great with this band, especially live, where he did an incredible drum solo. BTW, Torn can be found under Jazz, New Age, and Rock, so you may have to check out different areas of a store. Also, he is part of Polytown (Torn, Karn, and Terry Bozzio (of UK)) who have an new album out. I found my copy in the New Age section. -- Mathias [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Lee S. Kilpatrick" (Mr. Breeze) Subject: Re: Adrian Belew/Psychodots review Date: Sun, 19 Jun 94 04:38:33 -0400 > REVIEW: Adrian Belew with the Psychodots > The Paradise, Boston MA, June 15, 1994 > Adrian is doing a great job of promoting the upcoming King Crimson > incarnation. The audience went crazy when they played the Crimson numbers > (Matte Kudasai, Elephant Talk and Heartbeat). The arrangments were very During the "guitar solo" part of Elephant Talk, one of the crew stuck a stool behind Fetters. He sat on it and did a good impersonation of Fripp, looking intently at his guitar as he hunched over it & played, and occasionally snuck a furtive glance at the audience. > have a feeling that the new incarnation will far surpass the 80's version > in popularity for several reasons. One is that Belew has developed quite a > following with his solo work, in addition to the high-visibility Bowie tour I'm not so sure about "Belew's following"; the two recent shows I attended were in rather small venues, and they were only about 80% full. I talked to Martha (Mrs. Belew) and she thought that King Crimson would fill arenas. Crimson clearly has a following above & beyond Belew's. (On the other hand, the concerts were not very well publicized, I feel.) Lee [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 19 Jun 94 16:16 BRT From: GABRIEL AMORIM COSTA Subject: Lizard cover art Well, since Mark Stevens begun a discussion about Crimson's cover paintings (strange theory, Mark !), I'd like to discuss about Lizard's cover: The paintings on it seem, to me, to be illustrations of some songs...there's a big 'Cirkus' picture on the front cover and a big 'Battle of Glass Tears' on the back. There's also one that could be 'Lady of the dancing water'...what about the other songs and pictures ? Are those the Beatles on a picture ? What song could that be ? 'Happy Family' ? The lyric talks about four men, and says "Uncle Jonas grew a wife" (John ?!), "Cousin Silas grew a beard" (Paul ?!) What do you think ? Sorry if it just sounds like a great delirium of my part ....8-) 8-) Gabriel Costa [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: heck at husc dot harvard dot edu Subject: First Day LP Etc. Date: Sun, 19 Jun 1994 23:45:49 -0400 (EDT) I WROTE: >> An odd fact about _The First Day_: The song order is not the same on >> vinyl as on the CD. In particular, "Brightness Falls" comes after "Jean >> the Birdman" on vinyl, instead of at the end, so the last tune is >> "Darshan". I've not yet listened to it all the way through, so I've no >> idea what that might do to the overall feel. I'm supposing though that the >> reason for the difference is the vinyl format: It'd be hard to put >> "Darshan" and "Brightness Falls" together on Side 4. ..AND THEN LENNBOB at DELPHI dot COM WROTE: > Of course, Mr. Heck is thinking of "Bringing down the light". "Brightness > falls" has always followed "Jean the birdman" on The First Day, regardless > of format. "Bringing down the light", on the other hand, is only included > on the CD version of the album. It does not appear on the cassette, > either. Thanks, yes, of course. But now I'm really weirded out. I'd grown quite accustomed to the album's ending with "Bringing Down the Light", and had grown to think of that as quite a natural ending. And now! Am I to think of "Bringing" as an 'extra track' plunked onto the CD in that familiar fashion? Am I to think of my LP as defective and perhaps take it back? Presumably, I would be counseled to take each for what it is. But that does not really relieve the critical burden. What do people think? What happens to _The First Day_ without "Bringing"? Yours, Richard [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Clive Backham Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 10:08:19 BST Subject: Gong Oh no! a Gong thread is starting up - I know I just won't be able to keep my nose out of this one! In Discipline #139, David Ewing wrote: >One of Gong's first drummers, Pip Pyle, who went >on to play with Hatfield and the North and National Health was superb at >playing in this fast, light, jazzy style. He only played on the first(?) >Gong album "Magick Brother, Mystick Sister" (not Gong at their best) if I >remeber correctly. The drummer on Magick Brother was Rachid Houari. Official releases that Pip Pyle played on are "Camembert Electrique", "Continental Circus", "Obsolete" (by Dashiell Hedayat, but backed by Gong), the Gong set on the Glastonbury Fayre '71 album, and one track on Daevid Allen's solo album "Banana Moon". All these predate the Flying Teapot trilogy albums. He also plays on "Shapeshifter", a new Gong album whose style is a sort of mix of Camembert with Daevid Allen's acoustic stuff. BTW, the main drummer on "Banana Moon" was Robert Wyatt, who also had a nice loose style very well suited to Gong's rambling approach. >After David Allen and Steve Hillage left, >Moerlen turned Gong into a much less interesting fusion band, however. IMHO, Moerlen's Gong was a *very* interesting fusion band. Their first four efforts ("Gaseuze", "Expresso II", "Downwind" and "Time is the Key") are all first-rate stuff. ("Shamal" doesn't count as a Moerlen album, it was transitional, and excellent to boot). For those interested in sampling Gong's various styles, gather up these albums: "Camembert Electrique", "You", and "Gasueze". Clive Backham McDonnell Information Systems, Hemel Hempstead, UK email: cbackham at uk dot mdis dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 19:52:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "John F. Hamman" Subject: Re:Cloud About Mercury In the last issue, Paul asked a question regarding an album entitled, Cloud About Mercury. The ablum is a great one under the name of David Torn who is a electronic/acostic guitar player and most importantly a relatively good musician. The remaining musicians on the ablum will be more familiar: Mark Isham (trumpet, piccolo trumpet, flugelhorn, synth), Tony Levin (Stick, syth/bass), and Bill Bruford (Drums, percussion). The album was recorded in 1986 at Audio International, London and released by ECM records in 1987. Personally, I think this is a fantastic album (of course, I'm rather partial to Levin & Bruford). There are six tracks and most are remarkable, especially 3 Minutes of Pure Entertainment which is actually a seven minute tune (I guess we are free to choose the three minutes which we like best). Where did I find this album? I picked this up at some Tower Records somewhere in Texas when I was on a CD buying binge. However living here in the states in the middle of Iowa nonetheless, I sympathize with the inability to find such CD's. I do believe, however, that this can be ordered through any local Musicland or other such facility. A final cautionary note: David Torn does have at least one other CD out with a similar if not the same group. Its name currently escapes me as I have not heard or seen it for years. I hate to flame, but I was very dissapointed in that album it was quite a let down from Cloud About Mercury. Good Luck, John Hamman [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 12:19:29 +1000 From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) Subject: Lizard = silas and rufus?? I was listening to this last weekend as part of my vinyl weekend. was reminded what a good album it is. a question - has anyone ever explained sinfields beatles allusions? i can easily see why john=jonas and paul=jude, but why are george and ringo silas and rufus? (cant remember offhand which is george which ringo). the other allusions are relatively straightforward i think (especially with the cover to help). jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Matthew C Gregory Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 11:41:15 +0100 Subject: Earthstone-Kinesis Discs USA-Crimheads will love this. I managed to get hold of the first CD from Earthstone, its out on Kinesis, you may remember it being mentioned by Larry Kalota a few issues ago on IQ. Its an totally incredible album, original, inspiring, ground breaking. King Crimson fans of their 70's work will love this, parts of this CD move me like 'Starless', this is the only other piece other than 'Starless' that bring me close to tears, see the review of the last track below. It is an hour long, nine tracks, most of which around 7 minutes and one at 10 minutes. A very nice booklet with moody black+white photographs of twisted trees and strange twisted steel girders on a beach, on the back a collage of band members being silly, several intriguing effects photos, landscapes of English ancient sites, trees and a swirled pattern in a corn crop. The CD comes with a printed scattering of rather Aboriginal ancient rock carving style glyphs on it. Overall a really beautiful piece of packaging. So what is it like? I would say a natural extension of English Prog-rock with high music technology. The synthesiser sounds are what hit you first, they are all incredibly new, i would say carefully programmed, none of those usually dull rather empty presets here. Pulsing bass synths double with bass guitar in fast sequences. The lead synth sounds are stunning, digital yet thick, cutting and fluid, they seem to be a natural extension of the classic sounds like Hammond, Mellotron and Monosynths >from mid 70's Yes. They don't try to mimic these old keyboards but take the essence of the indescribable feel of what they hinted at in the 70's and develop the imaginary thought form into a brain twistingly present, spatially fluid sound. For example the 'Hammond' sound doesn't sound like a Hammond, or sound like a mimicked Hammond, but ripples with a phenomianal sound of subtle fluxing movement as if it had got closer to something that the Hammond hinted at. This album is multitracked with bass and six string guitars, voice,synths, programmed rock drums and occasional samples. Parts really hit you with that early 70's Yes feeling, that incredible complexity and blissful psychedelic flow. With this there is a real edge heard in King Crimson's 'RED' era, atmospherics that Ozric fans would like. Increasingly i hear Reichian polyrhytms and complex overlaid time signatures and '21st century schizoid man' style precise doubling of sequences by synth and guitar pulsing with the drums. The tracks usually have several sections within them, changing tempo and timbre each time, a vocal section is usually sandwiched between instrumental sections. I strongly recommend this album, it is fresh and innovative and complex, two years in the making, for those who were deeply touched by what Yes did on 'Close to the edge' I cannot recommend it enough. Here is a few track descriptions i wrote listening to some of them. E.L.F This has a driving exhilaration to it. Synth and guitar double on the unfolding melody/solo. Key changes, then a pause, then it launches back in with smooth atmospheric chords and a liquid synth solo rippling over the top, again it stops, and starts again into the vocal section. Guitar soaring scatty phrases punctuate a pulsing synth coda, doubled voice subtly feed the vivid lyrics. The drums build toward a key change, guitar now slicing colour strokes of sound, momentum building into another soul twisting sequence of chords with that incredible sizzling synth sound, like electric liquid mercury. The track falls away into a wash of synth with distant voices echoing semi-heard like in some half-awake state of mind. The Hand of Glory My absolute highlight at the moment, completely catches every essence of that 70's summery psychedelic lying in tall grasses under the sun stoned feeling that i get listening to 'Close to the Edge', a rolling, incredibly bright, blissful start, bass guitar looping a simple double note based riff with slide, synth organ rippling up and down the scale, a huge shifting string sound chording. And the synth soloing! twisting and slicing through a solo with an incerdible warm buzzing tone that moves through wavesequences of intensified harmonics on each held note. I really have not heard this type of sound anywhere else, it is one of the most incredible i have heard in collecting timbrally complex music. Now a breathy flute sound pulses into a quieter phase, the drums halt, marimbas start pulsing with the flute running about 3 counter time signatures at once, the marimba sound being changed every four bars or so, complex and hypnotic. Then the bass comes in playing an octave up and then swoops back down to its original looping phrase and the other instruments launch into a 4/4 4/4 2/4, 4/4 4/4 2/4, 4/4 4/4 2/4 2/4 sequence the flute and marimba hypnotically pulsing still and joined by a strummed guitar quietly rolling dreamlike in the background. The lead synth returns, simple, full, shifting, bright, buzzing, harmonically rich swooping its way to a slow fadeout. Llid The God A real change here, a really atmospheric instrumental, no beat but a huge orchestral synth ensemble rolling and pulsing, intermittantly a sample of chains falling on the ground, put through huge reverb and stereo field effect enough to send tingles down my spine every time i here it. A bass synth producing eerie chords joins a volume pedalled guitar, bell tones ring, the pulse slows and the whole track just melts into one hovering wash then... A spine tingling phrase repeats joined by really subtle distant 'screaming?' noises, like some dream atmosphere. A guitar solos angularly, it seems screaming from a hilltop over a vast flat landscape, this is incredibly visually intense stuff, the guitar has a really tight, coursing raw-and-processed sound. Emotionally devastating. The Winter of the Night This track really comes together, built upon a hammond bass phrase the lyrics are frighteningly hinting at some incredible feeling and emotion as if the thoughts were too powerful to totally express. This track hits me as hard as 'Starless' by King Crimson, it really hits that spot in the lyrics, the monster complexity of an instrumental central section. This literally almost makes me cry, the lyrics are absolutely exquisite. Another original lead synth sound and a vast mellotronesque sound chording. The synth ripples up and down a phrase with a strummed guitar through a bright light flanging effect. Intense emotional key changes mark this vocal section and now the instrumental section starts. First upbeat, the bass becomes really prominent, several overlaid time signatures i (wonderfully) cannot begin to explain, a Reichian pattern of sound, all instruments pulsing their own time. Synth soloing over the top. It stops, and starts again with a pattern: _ ^^_^ ^^_ _ _^^ in 21/4 time i think! The guitar soloing a growling the pattern in unison with the bass guitar and drums, stunning to listen to, like '21st Century Schizoid Man' by Crimson. WOW the beat slows and flows into a return to the first section but now instrumental and twice as cutting, the guitar agonises a torn screaming solo, racking the emotions and bringing you close to tears, this is what brings 'Starless' to mind. Then finally near the end of the tracks' ten minutes muted, deep slow synth chords finish the song and the album ends. What can i say GET IT! it is just incredible, it moves me like the greatest moments on Crimsons 'RED' and Yes' 'Close To The Edge', totally stunning album, a complete classic, i cannot find words. I spoke to the band as i live here in the UK and they say watch out for their track on the Prog-Rock Directory, apparently its quite a special and unique piece of quite a different character to their album, dark, driving, not amiss in the film 'Bladerunner', heavy industrial use of synths, angular, ahead of it's time, loads of electronic effects and nine minutes long. Hopefully it may be like the darker side of Crimson of 'RED' era. I can't wait to here it, anyone out their heard it yet? Mazza gregory dot teaching at physics dot oxford dot ac dot uk ##170707000## [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Mike Taylor Subject: Myrbein Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 12:18:57 CDT In Discipline #139, Goran Larsson writes ... GL> On a limited edition CD (only 1000 copies) named "Myrornas krig" by GL> a strange Swedish group called Myrbein I found this: GL> track 13: Larks' tounges (sic) in Aspic part II (6.21) GL> By Robert Fripp GL> Recorded september 1993 in Stockholm. GL> Did Fripp play in Stockholm in september 1993 or is this a very GL> good "copy" of the real thing? If it is real, what is this bootleg GL> doing at the end of a "normal" CD? A bit confused... It's a cover version of Larks' Tongues by Myrbein. The "By Robert Fripp," I assume, refers to the composition credits. Mike [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 16:35:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matthew F. McCabe" Subject: Re: Cloud About Mercury > I keep hearing about an album called "Cloud About Mercury" which has, among > others, Bill Brufurd on drums. However I can't find this anywhere, don't > know the name of the band, and no one working in local record stores has > heard of it (huh, big surprise). So, if anyone has any tips on where I can > pick this up, please let me know. Thanks. > > -paul "Eno is the one, Eno's the one to take > pmartz at dsd dot es dot com One hundred percent for your stomach's sake... > Evans & Sutherland Bubbly bubbly Eno!" > "Cloud About Mercury" is David Torn's album. Tony Levin (Stick and synth bass) and Bill Bruford (drums/percussion) contribute to every track. The album was released on ECM Records in 1987. I was lucky to get my copy--had to special order it. Levin and Bruford's playing isn't outstanding (IMO), but it's definitely worth a listen. Torn's guitar playing is very textural and unique--he utilizes delay loops to create "tonal ambience." BTW, Mark Isham adds trumpet to almost all of the tracks. I had the opportunity to see the tour for this album (many moons ago) and I think the music worked much better live than on CD. I wasn't hip to Levin or Bruford at the time, but, I'm pretty sure that Bruford played drums on this tour. Live, Torn's guitar work was "out the door" and very cool. Also, Isham's trumpet playing seemed to "fit" better in the live versions (as opposed to the CD). Matt McCabe Able Cain finley at ecst dot csuchico dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 17:57:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Bonjorno Subject: Wetton, Asia, Holdsworth and... Howdy! I've got to get a few things off my chest: 1) John Wetton WAS a great basssist, unfortunately, at some point he decided to put down his bass and croon. My respect for him faltered seriously when, I saw Asia (in Boston, spring '82), and he put down the bass and sang "the tear has left your..." When he was young and sounded like a coal-miner's son from Wales AND played incredible rock bass, he was a god. But obviously, even Fripp thought differently about him after a while ( can you say Greg Lake syndrome?). I also saw UK, (in Rochester, NY '79, opening for Tull), with Bozzio and Jobson. The show still rates amoung my favs of all time, even tho' Jobson is an [ xxx -- see below ] [... I have used my editorial prerogative here, and deleted the words Bruce used. This is not censorship per se, but I do not wish to run material in this newsletter which could be construed as libellous. I do not know enough about how international, or at least UK and USA, libel law applies to Internet 'publishing', and I am not inclined to find out. So, I will err on the side of caution. No flames please. -- Toby] that even Bryan Ferry gave up on (jeez, look what he did to Tull's "A"). I even got Wetton's autogrph at that time; also Carl Palmer's and Steve Howe's - how could I not? 2) Asia is very lucky that MTV and the first album were simultaneous, eh? 3) Holdworth is the only guitarist who has such long, incredibly long phrasing or breaths. His playing is unbelievable, often. Every guitarist is not suited to every genre, just ask Fripp. If you are a guitarist, as I am (I also play chapman stick, piano, viols and recorder), you may have a fav axeman, but revere many. Anyone, musicians especially, who doesn't recognize Allan's talent and strengths should get into another line of business. Hey everybody needs to pontificate every now and zen, pardon the pun. Just remember, "de gustibus est non disputandem!" bruce (bruceg at u dot washington dot edu) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: RAMIZ at vms dot huji dot ac dot il@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 13:37 +0300 Subject: Darashan single Yesterday i spotted in a local store a 12" single of Darashan (two versions), and post since i don't recall reference to it in previous digests, hope this info hasn't got a beard... The details are from my memory, coz it was far too expensive imo: It has some intriguing info on the back cover (including the "lyrics"): - One side is said to be mixed by the Grid, the other is titled Darashna and additionally mixed by the Future Sound of London. - The credits are to Fripp/Sylvian/Gunn/ *Cobain* /(forgotten name): who the frig is this Cobain? - Dedicated to Eddi Fripp (Eddith, Robert mother i believe) and Sylvian's newborn daughter with a terrible "yapi" name which i inhibited. - Can't recall the label it's on, but the serial is SYLP1. FYI, o o ^ Rami. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 18:40:21 -0400 From: ca614 at cleveland dot Freenet dot Edu (D. S. Patrick Popeck) Subject: Adrian At Wilbert's Last night, June 21, Mr. Belew was in fine form at a local blues bar, Wilbert's Bar & Grille. Though the bar is small and was quite hot (noted by Belew a few times), the sound was good, and it was very cozy. The opening band was Psychodots. They did a great job getting the crowd revved up. Mr. Fetters rivaled Mr. Belew all evening. My friend, a neophyte to Belew and Crimsonian music, actually preferred Fetters. The rhythm section was tight, but the drummer was only adequate, IMHO. Belew came on stage and played synthesizer guitar that captivated the audience. Though I was not familiar with the new album, I enjoyed what I heard greatly. He performed several Bears' tunes that were audience pleasers, but the Crimson songs got the most loudest support. He performed Matte Kudasai, Elephant Talk and Heartbeat. My favorites of the evening were The Momur and The Lone Rhinoceros (he also played Big Electric Cat from Lone Rhino). All in all, the show was excellent. I would think twice about the venue again, as some people could not see anything but TV monitors; that is not too satisfying for $21. I wish that Adrian's management would go to another site for his next trip to the Cleveland area. I would, however, probably go to any venue to see his show; it was that much fun. And I bid you goodnight! Patrick ca614 at cleveland dot freenet dot edu mayonnaise. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Bwanagreg at aol dot com Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 22:17:17 EDT Subject: "Mercury" and "Soundscape" Just got #139, my first one ... great stuff! "Cloud About Mercury" is a David Torn release (ECM 1322) from 1987. Both Bruford and Levin are on the album, and the polyrythms fly. Also on the record is trumpeter Mark Isham. The music is pretty interesting, with references to Holdsworth, Jon Hassell, Miles Davis, and (oh yeah) KC. I don't even know if this is still in print (my copy is on vinyl). As for Torn's later stuff (some of which Bruford plays on), one release (the name escapes me) has the dubious honor of being the only CD I've sold to my local used CD store. Greg [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ----- ADMINISTRIVIA ----- ** POSTINGS Please send all postings to Toby Howard, at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** SUBSCRIPTIONS/ADDRESS CHANGES USA subscribers: please contact Ken Bibb at discipline-request at arastar dot com. Non-USA subscribers: please contact Toby Howard, at discipline-request at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. ** ARCHIVES The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. I'm sorry, but I cannot mail out back issues personally. ** World Wide Web The Discipline home page is at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/discipline.html ** LEGALESE The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only. Thanks for reading Discipline! Toby Howard http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]