Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #135 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 135, Thursday, 12 May 1994 Today's Topics: Fripp news Hammill on Exposure CD; Sacred Songs? Bruford Re: Discipline #134 Re: Discipline #134 RE: Discipline #134 RE: Discipline #134 Re: Discipline #134 New Belew "Here" Alan White Re: Discipline #134, Jim Lampi New Belew Review Fripp's "high" age 90's King Crimson new belew New Belew Discipline #134 Re: Discipline #134 Re: #2(2) Discipline #134 Re: New Belew? Is it true? Re: Discipline #134 First KC incarnation POLL UK reunion & 1986 Wetto [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: KEN dot STUART at tigerteam dot org (KEN STUART) Subject: Fripp news Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 16:00:00 GMT Organization: Tiger Team Information Network (510) 268-0102 From: PHILKIME at COGSCI dot ED dot AC dot UK To: ALL Subj: Fripp news Date: 94/05/10 ================================================================ Last night on the UK's radio 3, there was a session from The Future Sound of London (I know they sound like a god-awful UK dance-mix-crap outfit :-) ... a newish electronic music bunch from, guess where, London. They played a 30 minute set of electronic ambience (quite good) that had a really nice section of Frippertronics in it. This Saturday, they are giving a live performance on the UK's Radio 1 (terrible popular chart radio) and Fripp is going to be playing with them. Well worth checking out. p -- -- = Phil Kime (philkime at cogsci dot ed dot ac dot uk) = = Centre for Cognitive Science/Dept of Philosophy = = Edinburgh University = --- * UniQWK v2.0 * The Windows Mail Reader / Tiger Team Buddhist Information Network / / Modem (510) 268-0102 info at tigerteam dot org / [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 13:40:55 -0800 From: tash at diva dot EECS dot Berkeley dot EDU (Jonathan King Tash) Subject: Hammill on Exposure CD; Sacred Songs? Exposure was released on CD as EGCD41 with Hammill providing vocals on "Disengage", presumably before the "Definitive Edition" was created. Is there any US source for Sacred Songs on CD? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 19:01:25 -0500 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: Bruford Keep surprising me, Robert Fripp... Shortly after I post my opinion that Bruford is better solo than part of a duo, I hear that Bruford is back in the band. As part of a duo. I'm am very pleased that Bruford is back in the fold, and I hope that the collaboration is amicable. Next on my wish-list: how about Earthworks opening for King Crimson? I know jazz isn't everyone's cup of tea, but a KC audience is likely to be about as open-minded as any "rock" audience... I can dream, can't I? It's only talk. -===-John R. Nash-==-nash at chem dot wisc dot edu-==-UW-Madison Chem. Dept-===- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: pvallado at sdcc5 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: Discipline #134 Date: Wed, 4 May 94 17:18:13 PDT > The new line-up is > > Adrian Belew > Bill Bruford > Trey Gunn > Robert Fripp > Tony Levin > Pat Mastelotto > > [ -- Thanks to Mark for providing this official information. ] Yes, thanks indeed to Mark. I count two drummers still, although Jerry Marotta appears to have changed his name to "Bill Bruford" ;-). All you people who wanted Bruford instead of Marotta, are you happy now? ;-) In reference to a recent post: yes, it took Pat and Bill to replace Bill...wait, this doesn't make sense. Oh well... I have enough faith in Mr.Fripp to trust whatever decisions he makes regarding the lineup. I would still support King Crimson even if tomorrow Mr. Fripp added KRS-One on rap vocals, Simon Shaheen on oud and violin, The Aphex Twin on assorted electronics; and replaced Tony Levin with Les Claypool and Adrian Belew with Diamanda Galas. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if KC went acoustic or for that matter dropped instruments altogether and became an acapella group like Take 6. > I was very glad to hear that KC was back into studio again but sorry to > hear that they are not going to release the stuff until next year. What > is Mr. Fripp thinking ??, he has let us wait for this to happen for 2-3 > years now, I mean we don't live 1000 years. Fripp will be 48 when the > record finally comes out which is rather high for a creative musician. > In my opinion this is a rather high age to be creative. IN the age > 20-30 the best work is usually done and to be creating interesting > things at 48 is no mean task. Fripp is no mean artist either but he is > human (I think). Derek Bailey is almost 3 decades older than Mr.Fripp and is still very much a creative musician. Fred Frith is as innovative as ever and he's about in the same age group. Not to mention other composers/musicians who continue(d) to be creative in their twilight years: Igor Stravinsky, Bela Bartok, etc. > I just hope that KC will burn on this record and better the 1981-84 > stuff which in my opinion is much overrated music. Why do people like > this soulless polyrythms or whatever it is called. There is though a > little soul in Beat. ...in your opinion, of course, not necessarily mine. I like the "soulless polyrhythms" because they were played by creative musicians who excelled in the music making process. The perception of "soul" in music is of course highly subjective...often hotly debated. > why is the KC minialbum being released only in japan? will mean > collectors/fans will need to pay extra $ for import, even if they can get > access to them. Will the tracks also appear on the album - probably not. Good question. I would have thought that the very presence of this mailing list with its 600+ subscribers, the majority of which reside in the United States, would give Mr. Fripp at least some confidence that people in the States would buy copies of the EP. He should realize that KC has more than enough fans in the States who are potential CD buyers to justify a US release. Maybe he has a problem with finding a US distributor for the EP. -- Paolo Valladolid pvallado at sdcc5 dot ucsd dot edu ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet newsletter |\ |dedicated to the discussion of music technology as applied to | | |guitar and other stringed intruments. To subscribe, send email | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 20:54:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Scott T. Lillis" Subject: Re: Discipline #134 Terry wrote: >My first "Starless" was the edited version, That's a pity. >and it is a very moving piece, no doubt. I agree. >The second half is far more powerful live than on RED, I think. IMO, I think the drumming on the RED version blows any live version, I've heard, out of the water. The off-beatness and intensity of the studio drumming(on the 13/4 build up) is mind boggling. Don't get me wrong. I've heard some better conclusions in the live version and the drumming is always fast on the build up live version, but it doesn't seem quite as demented. Orn wrote: >I just hope that KC will burn on this record and better the 1981-84 >stuff which in my opinion is much overrated music. That's odd. I feel that this era is most commonly ripped on. I thought it was underrated. >Why do people like this soulless polyrythms or whatever it is called. Cute. >There is though a little soul in Beat. Interesting. I like Beat too(with a few glaring exceptions), but it seems the most commonly voted for worst KC album. >I do listen to Evening Star at work when I am alone (the other ones can't bear >it for a second) and the effect of it is always positive, the music envokes >many new ideas when I am developing new things, like a programming solutions. I haven't heard Evening Star, but I experience this with Fripp and Eno's(separately) functional music. Frippertronics(like on Let the Power Fall) help me study, program, and generally concentrate. It helps my mind visualize patterns and structures in sound which can be generalized. Fripp tried to describe these structures in the insert of LtPF. I also use Eno's Discreet Music, though it is much more background music. It gets a little boring. I never seem to understand his patterns on Music for Airports, Neroli, and all those functional pieces. It makes sense but I can't discern a relationship. I think I'm looking for more than what is there. Scott P.S. I've heard so many different rumours of the new line-up that I don't even want to think about it until it happens. I'm already stir-crazy from waiting. I would be inclined to believe the post from Possible Productions though. Hey, Toby said it was official and he seems to know what's going on here. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 05 May 1994 11:23:01 +1000 From: Douglas Miller Subject: RE: Discipline #134 I've been enjoying the ever-changing story of the new KC lineup as each new rumor/semi-factoid/official confirmation gets added to the pile. But this latest twist has really made my jaw drop. Suddenly, Jerry Marotta is out, replaced by Pat Mastelotto ... and Bill Bruford??!! Hadn't we all ages ago dismissed the idea of even considering this possibility? But then it suddenly hit me --- Pat must be there for the backbeat, so that Bill can go mad whenever he wants. Thus Robert has a steady time to play against, and we all get to enjoy Bill's artistry as well --- everybody wins! :-) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 05 May 1994 12:04:08 +1000 From: Douglas Miller Subject: RE: Discipline #134 > From: ottari at ismennt dot is (Ottar Isberg) > Fripp will be 48 when the record finally comes out which is rather > high for a creative musician. In my opinion this is a rather high age > to be creative. IN the age 20-30 the best work is usually done and to > be creating interesting things at 48 is no mean task. Let me include my voice amongst the undoubtable legion exclaiming "what a load of nonsense!". What possible reason could there be for such a limitation on creativity? And in practise, numerous counterexamples can be found considerably to either side of your alleged "20-30" "creative golden age". > I just hope that KC will burn on this record and better the 1981-84 > stuff which in my opinion is much overrated music. Why do people like > this soulless polyrythms or whatever it is called. There is though a > little soul in Beat. Not just on Beat --- more on Discipline in my opinion. But, hey! Do you really want to know why people like me like the polyrhythmic stuff which you don't, or do you just want to abuse us for liking "soulless" music. If you really want to know, don't ask such a leading question! I think an important ingredient of art is mystery. In pieces like "Frame by frame" and "Discipline" one obvious aspect of mystery is that the polyrhythms are too complex for me to understand! This mystery has both prosaic consequences (I can't decide whether Fripp and Belew are playing identical parts, or mirror-image parts), and the more sublime effects as my concentration shifts between different sub-rhythms and sub-melodies, hence creating my own unique and ever-changing experience of the piece. This must be "soulful", because my soul is an integral part of it! (maybe this is what Fripp means by "active listening"). On the other hand, "The Sheltering Sky" achieves mystery in a completely different way. It has a floating, unresolved quality --- "nothing ever quite stated" is how Fripp puts it (an effect which he also thought occurred in the novel of the same name, "so we pinched the title"). I find it incredibly soulful and beautiful, and my favorite piece of music ever. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 22:08:40 -0400 (EDT) From: James John Hannigan Subject: Re: Discipline #134 > I have to differ with Fripp on this. I found--and I believe any > Crimson/Fripp fans would also find--the book worth reading and having on the > shelf. It is not only a history but a very descriptive discography--plus > it's the only book-length treatment we've got. Agreed. I'm reading it now and am enjoying it. > supposed to be doing on their own terms. Jimi Hendrix was an excellent > performer. As a performance artist, he is awesome and splendid and does things > that Fripp wouldn't do. However, I get the impression that Fripp is not an > actor, but a musician, and so creative impulse works within him in a way that > is focussed and tight as music for music's sake. And just because he doesn't > act chaotically doesn't mean he has no creativity. Indeed, many of his pieces True, but does that mean that Hendrix wasn't a musician? If so, I think that is a major falsehood. I didn't mean to imply earlier that just because Fripp doesn't play like a Hendrix did that that makes him a lesser player. Of course there's more to rock than onstage performing style. I recommend a listen to Band of Gypsys or the new Blues album that was released for proof of Hendrix's musicianship. I believe artists like these two are simply different sides of the same coin, different approaches to music. > association or by a personalized sign language. Whether it is more > artistic to > speak either way depends on your aim in speaking. I think it is the same way > with music. If you enjoy the performance because of the acting and stage show, > then Fripp would be boring. If you were looking for intellectual intricacy, > control and the connection between chaos and order, Hendrix may not be > for you. Again, there was much more to Jimi Hendrix than "acting." Later in his career, he was getting quite tired of having to live up to that image of the wild man.I'm sure one can find plenty about the connection between chaos and order in his music as well, though I'm not really sure what that means. On Bruford and White: > >PS in regards to David Altemir's "two drummer" discussion, don't forget > >about Yes on their Union tour. Bill Bruford and Alan White drummed together > >for most of the show. Bill played an all electronic drum kit while Alan > >played a conventional kit. It made for some very interesting interplay! > > It made my cry to see Mr. Bruford up there playing with White, who has > become another average "get a big sound and THUD! THUD! THUD! drummer", > much like Carl Palmer has. > I beg to differ! I saw that tour, and it appeared to me that Bruford was terribly disinterested, whereas White played with his usual excitement _and_ technique. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: macnmike at aol dot com Date: Wed, 04 May 94 23:39:23 EDT Subject: New Belew "Here" I purchased the new Adrian Belew album yesterday. I've listened to it twice. These are my first impressions. First off I'd like to say that I was inducted into the world of Fripp/KC via the '80's trilogy with Belew. I bought these about 2 years ago (note: these are the Warner Bros versions, not the Definitive versions) and listen to them quite a bit. I have since bought the 2 boxed sets and also Red on CD, as well as other Fripp alsums. I also own "Inner Revolution" from 1992. This new album and IR are very similar, as a matter of fact, after listening to Here once, I found myself humming "I'd Rather Be Right Here" from Inner Rev. I enjoy the album in general and it will ride with me to work for awhile. The only thing I can say negative about Here is that Mr. Belew is wearing his influences on his sleeve. I find myself drawing many comparisons that I might not normally do. I'll admit that everyone is influenced by other music, however some of the new songs draw strong comparisons. Bowie, Byrne (maybe only in voice, though), ELO, McCartney, Lennon, Harrison (only for the sitar-ish Rickenbacker solo). I don't know Belews previous career, or any of his other newer solo material, so I'm being relatively subjective about this album in as much as I can't draw comparisons. It is for certain a very tightly recorded and produced album-- a lot is happening in each song-- so it will probably reveal more each listen. The songs sound great at high volumes (for what that is worth). To sum up, I like the album, but I need to get around the comparisons. Mike Roeder (who sounds a lot like a Rolling Stone reviewer) MacNMike at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 04 May 1994 17:57:05 -0500 (cdt) From: Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man (John P Mohan) Subject: Alan White >From Discipline 134: >It made me cry to see Mr. Bruford up there playing with White, who has >become another average "get a big sound and THUD! THUD! THUD! drummer" I couldn't agree more. I think Yes' first step towards oblivion was replacing Bruford with White. White has always been a THUD THUD THUD drummer, even back in the early days. Listen to YesSongs. It's pathetic how White takes great Bruford drum parts like "Siberian Khatru", "Heart Of The Sunrise", and "Roundabout" (or just about any other song on the album) and ruins them with his too-loose style and that annoying cymbal sound (What IS that, anyway, a crash/ride?). The only thing I like about White is the sound of his toms. Not something to favor him over Bruford for, though. One may wonder how this pertains to Crimson, and it does in the sense the Crimson gave Bruford's drumming a chance to expand and continue growing where it left off with Yes. By 1974, eve, his drumming was light years ahead of what it had been on Close To The Edge. Curious that one of my favorite drummers to emulate (Bruford) and one of my least favorite drummers to emulate (White) are alumni of the same band, and have even played together. It's quite scary. JP "to be alone's no injury" Mohan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Mr M P Hughes Date: Thu, 5 May 94 09:28:51 BST Subject: Re: Discipline #134, Jim Lampi >> I have (at least!) one question for now: late last year, I was shopping in >> Oxford's Cornmarket, when I came across a busker who was playing and >> advertising the Chapman Stick > My bet is that it was Jim Lampi, an American stick player who has done > some high profile busking in Denmark Street (London's main instrument > shop street) paid for by the shops there. I saw this guy too, both in Oxford and (of all places) Bangor. It DEFINITELY wasn't Jim Lampi, who I've met and been staggered by. This stickist was younger (maybe 25ish, no more than 30) and had a tanned complexion and shoulder-length hair. He was from California, and was playing through 2 pignoses. Does this help any? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Bill Moxim" Organization: Univ. of Alabama at Birmingham Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 10:48:54 CST6CDT Subject: New Belew Review Well I went ahead and picked up Adrian's new disc "Here" last night. Now I've never been very good at reviewing a disc, I suppose because I feel my opinions are just my own and that I wouldn't want others to judge theirs by mine, as well as the fact that I'm *not* really a lyric person, I judge a song for the most part by its musical content - BUT - here's my two cents worth... I'm sure ther'll be plenty that differ... ADRIAN BELEW - HERE (45:02) Caroline Records (with an unusual oval logo), 1748-2 (US) Tracks: May 1, 1990 / I See You / Survival In The Wild / Fly / Never Enough / Peace On Earth / Burned By The Fire We Make / Dream Life / Here / Brave New World / Futurevision / Postcard From Holland / ??? It's a relatively SHORT album, but that's usually the case with him. From the very beginning I felt I was hearing QUITE a lot of Beatles influences - but since we already know he's quite the fan, I tried to ignore that as a reference. Yet the first four tracks continually reminded me of "Revolver" and I could no longer ignore it. He's really gotten into the backwards guitar solo's. I believe it was SURVIVAL IN THE WILD that seemed a lot like "Rain" with the bass line. Great so far! Then... Nirvana! NEVER ENOUGH, I couldn't help thinking about Kurt Cobain throughout the tune - and at the end he states "that's enough". PEACE ON EARTH, typical Belew style. Kinda "Rail Song"-ish with vocals. BURNED BY THE FIRE WE MAKE, sort of Inner Revolution-style tune. It's ok, but I don't have much of an opinion on it. DREAM LIFE is rather slow, quite pleasant with some very nice chord changes. HERE sounds like Martin Denny (remember him?) in the 90's with some psychedelic vocals and guitar, a tripped out tune, very cool. BRAVE NEW WORLD is kinda standard Belew style, it's ok, not much to say on that one. FUTUREVISION is great! Has definately some "The Ideal Woman" guitar work on it. It's heavy, it's funky, and it really moves. The end of it (not similar) reminded me of ELO from the "Time" album period. POSTCARD FROM HOLLAND is sorta slow and once again reminded me of the Beatles in a small way from the Sgt. Pepper era. But THEN a very unusual suprise...! Although the disc only lists twelve tracks, my player stated 13. Ok, well, it seems to be a thing these days with Nirvana's suprise track on the original release of "Nevermind", and Cracker's crazy 'skip a few - play some more - skip a few more' track lineup, but this one is different. It STOPPED (or should I say 'paused') rather abruptly on track 12 at 1:21. Did not continue. I couldn't skip forward, I couldn't scan-forward. All I could do was either skip backward or physically program in track 13 to hear what remained on the disc, yet if you program track 12 to play and pulled up the remainig time on track 12 it said 2:50 (it stops at 1:29, but when it does it jumps to 1:46 remaining) go figure... So anyway, I program track 13 to play. It's some rather spacey guitar work with 'Frippertronic-esque' loops in the background. Lasts about a minute forty-six. Interesting... so what's up with Crimson!! This could be a VERY nice venture here! MY opinion in all - this is one of the BEST things I've heard from Belew since 'Lone Rhino'! I've loved them all, but "Twang Bar" and "Lone Rhino" were always my favourites. I liked "Inner Revolution" better than "Young Lions", although I have nothing against that one, and "Mr. Music Head" for some reason seems to stand alone in a way. I REALLY *like* this album a lot. Granted I only first listened to it about 20 minutes ago, but I think it'll stick with me. BUY IT. It's really intrigued me with what we're about to see with the new Crimso next YEAR :( I would say for a quick sampling of this disc, program tracks 9 11 3 5 8 13 in that order. That's just a thought. I like it... THREE drummers?! Jeez, what's up the ole' sleeve this time around? Looking forward to it! Ciao - [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 5 May 94 11:23:10 PDT From: John dot Lukes at EBay dot Sun dot COM (John Lukes) Subject: Fripp's "high" age NOTE: This post is intended as light-hearted and is NOT meant as a challenge to a "flame-war"....[smiley faces galore]. Ottar Isberg, while lamenting the fact that the next KC studio work isn't slated for release until next year, says: >Fripp will be 48 when the record finally comes out which is rather high >for a creative musician. In my opinion this is a rather high age to be >creative. IN the age 20-30 the best work is usually done and to be >creating interesting things at 48 is no mean task. Fripp is no mean >artist either but he is human (I think). I know that is all OPINION, but since when does a TRULY creative person loose their juices past the age of 30?! Some of the greatest music of Western Civilization (recent years and for centuries back) was produced by folks at least TWICE the age that Ottar thinks is the upper limit ("high") for creativity. For instance, going back to a time when most folks didn't even live much past their forties, Johann Sebastian Bach was 44 when he wrote the Saint Matthew Passion. John Coltrane (to dip into American Jazz history) didn't even join the Miles Davis Quintet until his 31st year. And John Lennon, IMHO, was just getting going when he was cut short in his 40th year. Well anyway, of course, you can probably easily guess what age group I'm in, as I can imagine we can all guess which age group Ottar is in. Hey, again, no offense meant and no offense taken. I remember when Abbie Hoffman first spoke the imfamous line, "Don't trust anyone over 30." I was in my early twenties at the time. Abbie lived to regret that line. And I've lived to regret echoing his line. I'm 46 now. Time do fly, folks, but I do know one thing, and some more time on the planet will hopefully teach us all, that, to update Pogo's (the comic strip character) observation, "We have met the enemy and they are us!" -JOHN (strands of silver among the brown) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: 90's King Crimson From: NAME: Chad C. Beesley First of all, everyone seems shocked by the two drummer array. Personally, I'm not. Remember, on LTIA, the lineup had Bill Bruford - Drums and Jamie Muir - Percussion. Two drummers doesn't seem all that strange. Secondly, I will not get excited about an 'impending' King Crimson return. This happens every couple months. I've been a die-hard Crimso fan for about 5 years and have heard innumerable rumors of the reforming of the band in that time. I went and looked at some of the early issues of 'Discipline'. THE FIRST ISSUE MENTIONS AN IMPENDING CRIMSO RETURN! That was about 6 years ago. Mr. Fripp was in Rolling Stone over a year ago telling of releases in the Fall. About 10 different lineups have been thrown around in the last few issues of 'Discipline'. Bruford's hated, he's in the studio with the band; the fluidity of the lineup is enough for me to believe it is not true. I won't get my hopes up again. Until I see an album or there is a ticket in my hand, I just won't believe it. Finally, I've only been with 'Discipline' for the past dozen or so. I wish I'd been around for the heated 'bootleg' debates. Those are my opinions. If you don't like them, I have others. Chad [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 22:27:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Patrick R. Leyden" Subject: new belew Well to call Adrian Belew's HERE a pop masterpiece would be right on target! It is good to hear songs from THE ACOUSTIC ADRIAN BELEW in full electric glory like "Burned By The Fire We Make." Also, "I See You" is a very infectious pop tune. Also, the last track is a good indication that Adrian hasn't forgotten his experimental/serious music work. All in all, I love it and it is worth every penny! Whoever called Michael Jackson the KING OF POP never heard of Adrian Belew! -cuyahoga at astro dot ocis dot temple dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 5 May 94 09:04:34 -0400 From: david at pharlap dot CI dot COM (David B. Kuznick) Subject: New Belew > From: "John Relph" > > Anybody pick up the new Belew album? I found it used already! But don't let that scare you. It's really quite good, much better than Inner Revolutions IMO (though I have to admit that grew on me as well). Belew seems once again to have found the right balance between the experimentation and the pop format. Two thumbs up! -- David Kuznick - david at ci dot com (preferred) or dkuznick at world dot std dot com "Let me show you a sign pure as the virgin snow, Sail awhile with me through my dreams, Hear the many enchanted themes I will play for you in several keys of blue, Sing for you my swansong..." Swan Song - BE BOP DELUXE [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Discipline #134 From: mike dot dickson at almac dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Date: Fri, 6 May 94 01:02:00 +0000 [T] I spoke with Fripp about two years ago about the Tamm book, which was [T] fairly new at the time. He said that he would not recommend the book to [T] anyone except that he felt the chapter on the Crafty workshops I'd have to agree that this was the most interesting passage in the book. The rest of it was kind of wearing - a sort of tour of Tamm's opinions on King Crimson's music - not the sort of thing I find stimulating. Some of his other sections - particularly his lengthy discussion on the construction of 'Starless' lapse into utter pretention. I'm not even sure who this was aimed at! [BR] The nebula cover was used for the Island release in the UK I believe, [BR] while the cover on the Atlantic release was used only in the US. Why, I [BR] have no idea. Perhaps a UK correspondent could confirm. I haven't ever seen the non-nebula cover over here at all, except as a special import. (And that was several years ago) While on the same subject, has anyone ever seen a non-gatefold version of 'Starless And Bible Black'? I came across one a couple of weeks ago and didn't know what to make of it. Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory mike dot dickson at almac dot co dot uk --- ~ KWQ/2 1.2e NR ~ PANTHER *Freeware* Communications Software! PANTHER2.ZIP! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 19:19:21 -0400 From: zampino at panix dot com (Phil Z) Subject: Re: Discipline #134 ottari at ismennt dot is (Ottar Isberg) wrote: > I was very glad to hear that KC was back into studio again but sorry to > hear that they are not going to release the stuff until next year. What > is Mr. Fripp thinking ??, he has let us wait for this to happen for 2-3 > years now, I mean we don't live 1000 years. Fripp will be 48 when the > record finally comes out which is rather high for a creative musician. > In my opinion this is a rather high age to be creative. IN the age > 20-30 the best work is usually done and to be creating interesting > things at 48 is no mean task. Fripp is no mean artist either but he is > human (I think). Your impatience aside, several generations of jazz musicians should have shown us that creativity is a way of life, not something to have until a certain age. It's true that a lot of rock musicians burn out quickly, but I think that has more to do with the intensity of the lifestyle than the demands of creativity. Fripp seems to have intelligently sidestepped the pits of self-destruction and kept himself clean to create. At 48 I'd expect more interesting music from a musician who's had a lifetime of learning to build on. It amazes me when I hear legacy bands with people at that age that are only capable of commercial output- it seems the only thing they've learned how to make is money, not music. Phil Z [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: bworkman at aol dot com Date: Sat, 07 May 94 01:43:29 EDT Subject: Re: #2(2) Discipline #134 New Belew! It's true! Unfortunately that's the extent of my poetry ability. I bought the new Belew album "Here" and I like it. It's mellower and much more acoustic than previous Belew albums. Also, he plays EVERYTHING himself (including drums). I was a little worried when I saw that it was recorded at home in his living room, but the sound quality is excellent. I just got it a few days ago and have only given it three or four listens so no single track stands out in my mind as an example but it is very good overall. Brian Workman [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 10:35:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Stok Subject: Re: New Belew? Is it true? I got the new Belew "here" yesterday, and the first time I heard it (last night) I hated it, however having been listening to it for about 4 solid hours I will say I quite like it, it's a "grower". These are my not quite initial impressions: All the vocals & instruments are by Adrian Belew, and this album is a pleasant contrast to the Phil Collins solo album where Collins played everything. It could be interpreted as a 'personal' album, a few of the songs are about travelling and being away from home (I See You, Here, Postcard From Holland, maybe Dream Life), some are 'what's the world coming to?' songs (Survival In The Wild, Peace On Earth, Burned By The Fire We make, Brave New World, Futurevision), there's a 'love song' (Never Enough) and a couple I don't have an interpretation for (May 1, 1990 and Fly). The sound is clean & sharp, and has the usual range of Belew-esque sounds put into relatively simple sounding songs. There is a wide range of moods from quietly introspective music to stuff which verges on blistering rock, and Belew's vocals are varied. All in all a confirmation that Adrian Belew is still on form, lots of musical variety (all recognisably Belew if you've listened to his previous output), lots of interesting guitar noises, lyrics which are worth listening to... all for $10.99 :-) Mike -- The "usual disclaimers" apply. | Meiko Mike Stok | 130C Baker Ave. Ext Mike dot Stok at meiko dot concord dot ma dot us | Concord, MA 01742 Meiko tel: (508) 371 0088 | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 08 May 1994 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: GORNYJA at whitman dot edu Subject: Re: Discipline #134 A quick note about Andy Summers: I recall someone saying that they thought Andy Summers might have been a good choice as an addition to KC. I do not agree, entirely. I think that Bewitched was okay, but not as good as I Advance Masked, which truly has some of my favorite Fripp pieces on it. From following Andy Summers' work, however, it seems that he has been going mainstream jazz, although the album with John Etheridge was definitely a step in the right direction. If he continues to do such acoustic work, I would actually be more than pleased to see another Fripp & Summers collaboration. The two of them create a very detailed texture, which is not KC, but is just as interesting. (If you haven't heard I Advance Masked, it is like mixing Discipline or LoG work with Secret Journey or Summers' work in Synchronicity. It does have quite a bit of compositional intricacy, plenty of suspense at times, snapped by some very excellent acoustic rhythm and eletric fuzz-work by Summers. Painting and Dance, and the track after it, are my favorites. Excellent fingerpicking and solos on both.) Jacob Gorny gornyja at whitman dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: RAMIZ at vms dot huji dot ac dot il@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Mon, 9 May 94 19:50 +0300 Subject: First KC incarnation Greetings fellow criminals! Recently i managed to get a copy (i.e. vinyl) of the McDonald & Giles, and also got a tape of the KC BBC Top Gear broadcast from 6/5/69 (actually what i got was a rebroadcast of it, so i can't tell if it's the whole set. As it seems noteworthy to me, my recording has on it (~20"): 1) Epitaph 2) In the Court of the Crimson King (with lyrics substancially different wrt 3) Get Thy Bearings the album, as mentioned in a previous digest) It's my first time to listen to early KC live (i.e. in an "unprocessed" recording), and i found it as brilliant as can be. GTB had a potential of becoming one of this band's "greatest hits" imo. To the short point, for some time now i have a notion that the first KC incarnation is not being given it's deserved credit in the list. Without taking a thing from the other lineups, i think that in terms of groundbreaking, musicianship and versatility, it has no less (if not more at places) to offer than them. For me, if it wasn't for the "dead" minutes in Moonchild, In the Court of... would've been a *perfect* album (and i say the same about Red sans Providence ... with excuses to all improv lovers :-) and it will always remain my KC desert island choice, no matter how much i enjoy the others (and i do enjoy most of them up to Discipline included). I don't know if the problem is underestimation of this lineup or overestimation of the others. Take for instance the 73-74 lineup whose output of glorious albums is unquestionable (some would say two, some would say three...), but it had a violinist who, at certain times (how frequently?), simply didn't function as a musician on stage, or the 81-84 lineup which tried twice to clone it's first excellant album (im*H*o). Just my 0.06 Israeli shequels, as of yesterday's exchange rates :o) o o ^ Rami. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: RAMIZ at vms dot huji dot ac dot il@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Mon, 9 May 94 20:13 +0300 Subject: POLL Greetings again! "An idea visited me" whilst writing the previous posting to hold a certain poll amongst the members of Discipline. It's too complicated to get into explanations, but i assure you that answering won't get you into trouble with the Mosad :o) It's very simple, there are 7 questions: 1) 1=LTiA, 2=S&B and 3=Red - which one do you like best? (1,2,3,X=none) 2) How many of the above three do you consider to be masterpieces (0-3)? 3) 4=Discipline, 5=Beat and 6=ToaPP - which one do you like best? (4,5,6,X=none) 4) How many of the above three do you consider to be masterpieces (0-3)? 5) Which UK album do you like best (1=UK, 2=DM, X=none)? 6) Do you think Darashan is too long? (Y/N) The seventh question has todo with a posting i want to send, but am afraid won't be of interest: it's about the many parallelisms i find between RF and Vini Reilly, guitar virtuoso of the Durutti Column (he was titled as the new wave's RF at ocassions, but this really does no good to any of them). So... 7) Is such a posting of interest to you? (Y/N) The answer to this poll is simply a 7-character string. I'd appreciate it if you'd send me your answer! [[ If you want to reply, PLEASE SEND TO RAMI, **NOT TO ME** (Toby) -- Thanks ]] o o ^ Rami. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: KEN dot STUART at tigerteam dot org (KEN STUART) Subject: UK reunion & 1986 Wetto Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 08:42:00 GMT Organization: Tiger Team Information Network (510) 268-0102 From: RONC at COGS dot SUSX dot AC dot UK To: ALL Subj: UK reunion & 1986 Wetton Date: 94/05/09 ================================================================ Just thinking about the UK reunion, and an interview that Jason Bilsky provided for me: ===== Here's an excerpt from an interview with Wetton in MUSIC magazine, a local Florida music rag, from January 1986: Int: How did you know that U.K. was the wrong course? (toward mass acceptance in the pop world) Wetton: I was working with someone I couldn't stand -- Eddie Jobson. Int: You had a hard time with Eddie? Wetton: Well, he was a big believer in instrumental music and everything being over seven minutes long and I wasn't particularly a big fan of that. We just got further apart until it came to one big row and I just didn't even want to see the guy again. Int: Was it something that built up over a long period of time? Wetton: No, it was just a mutual hate, really. Int: It lasted quite a while for a mutual hatred, didn't it? Wetton: Uh, Yes, about four years it was. We stuck together at the time because we thought that there was something actually valid happening between the two of us. But it turned out there wasn't, really. and later... Int: So you're saying that even though the band [Asia] works together, there's still a bitterness between you. Wetton: Of course there is -- and there always will be. Int: Doesn't that make for a difficult working situation? Wetton: No, not really. No, I can work with people I despise. I managed to work with Eddie Jobson for three years and I can't stand the sight of the guy. ===== Uh-oh. Ronald L. Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) School of Cognitive & Computing Sciences University of Sussex, Falmer, Brighton, BN1 9QH, UK Tel: +44 273 678581; Fax: +44 273 671 320 Wanna see/hear me? Cybersurf: http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/gallery/fac.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.