Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #131 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 131, Monday, 18 April 1994 Today's Topics: Re: Discipline #130 The "Would Be" League of Crimson Revealed! More UK Prattle The "Definitive" _Exposure_ tracks on Soundscape GD Sleepless -- Definitive Edition Re: Discipline #130 Discipline submission/Anekdoten For Discipline Sleepless UK discussion Belew Either/Orchestra "Red" Nothing "clever" to say... Similar as KC ?? An interesting recording from Japan.... Re: kurt cobain suicide HOT CRIMSON NEWS! Re: Discipline #130 3oaPP and Fripp Careful w/ Axe Availablity For What It's Worth Origins of UK Rollins Band Anagram ftp site Haaden 2 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 12:58:43 -0500 From: uchima at fncrd8 dot fnal dot gov (Mike Uchima) Subject: Re: Discipline #130 David=Lane%HQ%Rational at Vines1 dot ratsys dot com wrote: > > Regarding "UK" vs. "Danger Money": > > Having had the opportunity to attend one concert given by the original UK > incarnation and two by the Bozzio lineup, I'd differentiate between each > band's approach by describing the original as looser and more willing to > experiment--somewhat in the spirit of KC, while the 2nd lineup seemed > tighter, more rehearsed, and more "chops"-oriented--much like ELP, another > band whose shows I've had occasion to attend. It was almost as if they had > everything written down in advance. This makes sense -- one of the biggest complaints Holdsworth supposedly had about UK was that Wetton got pissed if he didn't play things exactly the same every night. I guess Wetton's point of view prevailed in the end, since Holdsworth (and Bruford) both left the band... -- Mike Uchima -- uchima at fnal dot fnal dot gov [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: C_HOARD%BAX dot compuserve dot com at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Date: 07 Apr 94 15:08:02 EDT Subject: The "Would Be" League of Crimson Revealed! In the previous Discipline digest, Roy (r dot derousse2 at genie dot geis dot com) writes: re: UK's Danger Money: >There have been a few comments recently regarding U.K.'s _Danger Money_, >one in particular warned against its' purchase. I must disagree... My three favorite "progressive albums" released between '75 and '80 (when KC had left the scene for 5 years...) were the first UK, BB's _One of a Kind_, and Gentle Giant's _Free Hand_. Danger Money--sorry. I wouldn't recommend against its purchase--especially for Wetton/Jobson fans, because there's some great Wetton there--far surpassing, say the Asia schlock. The fragile chemistry that couldn't hold together with the first UK ensemble--was something totally unique IMO because of Holdsworth, who brought a completely different mood and feel to that band--and frankly AH's singular sense of melody and improvisation--to me--made that band's music a lot more interesting than it otherwise would have been. I actually discussed this at length with Jobson--who seemed to agree with me on that point--but at the time, AH was not interested in making "glued together" music--i.e., meticulously crafted projects via the overdubbing process. His homemade _I.O.U._ project which followed was really a "live" response to all that rehashing (which I frankly loved)--that went into the Bruford and UK projects. AH, like Fripp, was a distressed musician at the time (remember "Dusty Rhodes"), and told me he was struggling with alcohol abuse all through this period-- one reason, no doubt, Jobson told me that on the road with UK, AH had difficulties leaving hotels and catching planes. AH never denied this--claiming the music--and the restrictions placed on him by EJ and JW made him feel all the more wretched. I thought some of Wetton's best vocals ever were one the tune's co-penned by AH--"Never More" and "Mental Medication." Upon making that comment to AH he said something to the effect it was hell to get Wetton to sing the parts AH wrote-- he couldn't understand the harmonies, and AH had to coach him through the singing in the studio until JW got it right. Needless to say there was tension all around with that project--but the results-- however short lived--I thought were magnificent. >One of the interesting rumors I'd heard was that UK was originally going to >be a quartet called "The League of Gentleman". It was going to have Jobson >on keyboards and violin, Wetton on bass and vocals, Bruford on drums and >Fripp on guitar... Kind of strange that all those guys appeared on KC's last release of the 70s--_USA_! I gathered from interviewing Fripp that his last tour with the Wetton/Cross/Bruford KC was traumatic on several levels--including his frustrations with the music business and tour promoters... Anyway, this is *NO RUMOUR* as both Fripp and Jobson have both told me as much. In fact Jobson described quite clearly how he'd lunched with Fripp at "The Source" up on Sunset Blvd. and Fripp (much to his disappointment) backed out of "The League." It would have been called KC--only Fripp at the time wanted to disassociate himself with KC's name at the time. >The only evidence to substantiate that something like this may have been in >the works is that "The Sahara of Snow Part II" from Bruford's "One of a >Kind" has a Jobson co-writer credit. But it may have been a leftover UK >tidbit, so it may just be an interesting rumor and nothing more. Not only did Jobson have a co-writer credit--but he played violin on one track "Forever Until Sunday"??--but told me he didn't want a credit "like a studio musician, because I'm not one." Some people assumed AH played violin on that record--he actually did play violin--but only on _IOU_ as far as I know. Jobson played violin as a favor to Bruford--it wasn't a leftover UK tidbit. I'm not sure this occured before or after Jobson fired both AH and BB from UK. UK's first incarnation was certainly the most direct kind of off-shoot KC has ever had. --That's a little piece of history I've investigated pretty thoroughly-- and of course there are people around like David Lane who still shed new light/new connections & valuable tidbits about that most interesting, Crimsonless era. Cheers/Chris. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "ToddM" Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Mpls, MN Date: 7 Apr 1994 14:14:00CST6CDT Subject: More UK Prattle David=Lane%HQ%Rational at Vines1 dot ratsys dot com says: Regarding "UK" vs. "Danger Money": > Please do not consider this to be in any way a flame, but my personal > observation on the subject is that folks who still find stuff like ELP > interesting listening would obviously find the 2nd UK LP more to their > liking. I find that of the "Progressive Rock Big Four" > (ELP/Genesis/KC/Yes) bands, KC is the only one that still sounds > interesting after all these years. KC seems willing to forgo the old experimentation and try something completely different and new while a lot of the older groups are creating permutations of their old sound. I can't think of a bigger difference in a group between "Red" and "Discipline" (despite the intervening 7 years). And what a difference it was and what an incredible album. > It would be interesting to know, on average, how long the folks who prefer > the 2nd LP have been listening to this stuff, as opposed to those who > prefer the 1st one. Actually, my favorite UK album is the first one. The second one has its moments, indeed. > Having had the opportunity to attend one concert given by the original UK > incarnation and two by the Bozzio lineup, I'd differentiate between each > band's approach by describing the original as looser and more willing to > experiment--somewhat in the spirit of KC, while the 2nd lineup seemed > tighter, more rehearsed, and more "chops"-oriented--much like ELP, another > band whose shows I've had occasion to attend. It was almost as if they had > everything written down in advance. Holdsworth's book "Reaching for the Uncommon Chord" indicates that Jobson demanded Holdsworth play the same solo lines in an exacting way, night after night when he was more interested in improvising. Holdsworth and Bruford's jazzer's influences might have driven a classically trained Jobson up the wall, while Holdsworth and Bruford may have been irritated in the extreme in not being allowed to "explore". Holdsworth has in interviews as well as his book indicated that UK made him miserable and he'd just want to "go get drunk". Re: Crimson Related Comments (or at least Fripp): > I don't know about your rumor, but The Bruford tune "Forever Until Sunday" > originated as a UK piece; it was played by the original lineup on their 1st > North American tour. Unauthorized recordings of this exist. Ditto for the > previously mentioned "Carrying No Cross" and "The Only Thing She Needs". > The Pittsburgh version of "Starless" from "The Great Deceiver" features > lyrics not in the original song that ended up in UK's "Caesar's Palace > Blues", as has been pointed out previously on this list. This would also tend to substantiate the record store owner I talked to having a test pressing of "Danger Money" with both Bruford and Holdsworth fully present. The guy also gave details that seemed to fit, i.e. Holdsworth soloing as only he could on the long into to "Carrying no Cross", there were guitar parts on many of the tunes that Jobson dubbed synthesizer parts that were somewhat guitaristic. I also have seen various UK bootlegs with both Holdsworth and Bruford playing some of these songs. > I've always wondered if "Carrying No Cross" was a KC leftover and if > perhaps the title referred to its one-time violinist. Hey, perhaps Fripp, > Levin, Belew et al will have a track called "Carrying No Bruford" on their > forthcoming album. :-) "And what price peace of mind" indeed! -- ToddM. LaserMaster Technical Support. toddm at ramrod dot lmt dot mn dot org [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: vince at mpd dot tandem dot com (Vince Layton) Subject: The "Definitive" _Exposure_ Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 15:00:11 CDT I was listening to an old cassette of _Exposure_ a few days ago. This got me to thinking about when I bought the album a few years back that was labeled "The Definitive Edition". I must say that I was disappointed with some of the changes Fripp made(i.e. different vocal tracks). Is this just me? I can't decide whether I really like the original cuts better or that I've listened to them so many times that I'm thrown for a loop at the re-mixed songs. As it stands, I still listen to an over 10 year old tape rather than the LP. Has anyone else experienced this? vince [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: djackson at cats dot ucsc dot edu Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 18:28:16 -0700 Subject: tracks on Soundscape Steve said he has a copy of Robert Fripp String Quintet CD called "Kan- non Power." I have a CD called Soundscape, which has the exact same songs on it. It is excellent quality, but all the CD says is that it was "Recorded live on November 1992." If anyone knows where this was recorded, I would appreciate it. Damon Jackson [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 08 Apr 1994 09:51:18 +1000 From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) Subject: GD got my copy of great deciever - and like an earlier post it has a 2 disk in the 4 box - have written to caroline - it would be expensive to have to send the whole lot back. its very impressive and reminds me why i like that crimson the best - it is more focussed musically than the first one, yet has more varied tones than the third - the violin makes it some thing very different. my dream is a reissue of superbitmapped albums with the dead space made up with rarities or live tracks - as the albums clock in at 40+/- minutes, plenty of space. Heaven. jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 21:02:20 -0600 From: dalton at isidis dot colorado dot edu (lizard man) Subject: Sleepless -- Definitive Edition Mike Brodhead writes: >After putting at least 8 years of listening into my cassette copy of _Three >of a Perfect Pair, I finally bought it on CD. >There was one surprise, though. There is a different mix of "Sleepless"! >What's the deal? The bassline at the begining is *significantly* >different. There is a big fat rest in the middle of each measure. Less >importantly, the last high note of the pattern is different. >IMHO, the opening is much weaker with the new bassline. Well, after ten years, i also recently replaced my cassette copy of the original LP from my college days with "The Definitive Edition." 3oaPP is my least favorite Crimso album, and the last to be updated with a CD. I was always annoyed by the lame drumming on "Sleepless," it sounded like they had edited Bill right out. I know he and Fripp had been arguing about that time...apparently Bill's drumming was so creative that Bob couldn't handle it, he kept losing his time. So i thought maybe Bill had done this as a joke, ruining one of the tracks on that album with the highest potential. (there must be a better way to say that: one of the highest-potential tracks...aah, you understand :-) While i feel that none of the tracks on 3oaPP live up to their potential (except maybe Nuages, of all things!) the Sleepless drums (or lack thereof) bugged me the most. I started a thread about this some months ago on Discipline, and as i remember, someone said Tony had generated drum machine parts. So, when the new version started up on my player, i noticed the difference immediately. Having heard that another mix existed i had hoped this would be the interesting one. But it wasn't. I do kinda like the new bassline, but there are HOLES in the song, places they took stuff out and didn't put anything new in to replace it! I need something i can sink my teeth into, in a, in a different sort of way... :-) >What do y'all >think? The liner notes mantion that "Sleepless" was mixed by none other >than Bob Clearmountain. Well, i thank Bob for giving it his best shot; it is kind of nice to hear a different version but i still think Sleepless could be MUCH better. Maybe they will improve on it live in the next Crimso, although i secretly hope the new Crimso will be thoroughly unlike anything we can expect :-) >Are there other changes I've missed? What about other KC albums? Actually, i replaced my Exposure LP with a CD recently and "Disengage" has been thoroughly shot to hell. Weak, weak, weak. After all this time, i had been looking forward to getting that on disc. Oh well. A couple other songs were changed too, but nowhere near as devastatingly as "Disengage." All that work to remaster the Definitive Editions...wasted. Anybody know how to get CD versions of the ORIGINAL releases? Are they frighteningly fuzzy? And is there a THIRD version of "Sleepless" somewhere? I'd really like to hear the tracks Bill recorded... --lizard man dalton at isidis dot colorado dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 21:55:33 -0400 (EDT) From: LENNBOB at delphi dot com Subject: Re: Discipline #130 >> It is refreshing to know that Japan doesn't buy into the American idea of muzak. << Oh, yes it does. I heard plenty o' muzak-style covers of pop & rock tunes during my five years working in Tokyo... >> Can anyone reveal the new lineup? I hope that Mr. Levin will be joining; his presence will guarantee the atmosphere that made the last few albums for me. << The Japanese liner notes to the Sylvian/Fripp album give the next KC lineup as Fripp, Belew, Levin, Jerry Marotta, and Trey Gunn. Of course, those were written last summer, so things may have changed in the meantime... re: Sylvian/Fripp "A New Dream" bootleg >> Sound Quality: EX+, soundboard, and the mix is great. << Actually, it isn't a soundboard recording as such. The Oct. 26 SF concert at Tokyo's Nakano Sun Plaza Hall was aired on one of the Japanese satellite TV channels in November (the 18th, I believe). The audio is digital, and most (if not all) of the available tuners feature digital out jacks. The masters for the "New Dream" bootleg were obviously taken from this broadcast (which I recently obtained on video) - just before "Firepower" begins, for example, you can still hear the incidental music played behind the interview segments dying out. In this respect, the "Original Sound Board Recording" proclamation on the cover of the bootleg is slightly misleading. Kevin lennbob at delphi dot com tintmeister at pan dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Clive Backham Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 9:25:37 BST Subject: Anekdoten I have some feedback to Discipline #130 you may want to put in a future issue: Dennis dot Montgomery at EBay dot Sun dot COM (Dennis Montgomery) wrote: >I've stumbled across a band that's a guaranteed sure hit for us fans of mid >70's Crimso. The band is called "Anekdoten" and their CD is called >_Venod_. Instrumentation includes guitar/drums/vocals/mellotron/ >bass/cello. And when I say bass, I mean the same type of distorted bass >Wetton was tearing concert halls apart with in '74 :) [ extensive compliments deleted for brevity ] Many people have been delighted with this disc, so it's worth trying to get to hear it, but before you buy blind, I would offer an alternate opinion: I can see there is some similarity, but I don't find Anekdoten to be anywhere near as subtle and inventive as mid-era Crimson. On first listen, Vemod sounds depressingly like stock prog-metal. Further listens reveal some interesting parts, but on the whole I still regard it as fundamentally head-banging fodder. One interesting point is that at a couple of points, Anekdoten's guitarist does the best Fripp impersonation I've yet heard. Roy SeGuine asked: >Can someone enlighten me as to which album(s) Groon appears on? It's been >way to many years since I've heard this gem. Groon was the B-side of the single "Cat Food". It was never on any of the standard studio albums. Not 100% certina, but I think it was on "Young Persons Guide". I can definitely say there's a 15 minute live version on "Earthbound" (and very weird it is, too). KEN dot STUART at tigerteam dot org (KEN STUART) wrote: >I just saw a copy of Toyah's Anthem LP used at my local store...... [ stuff deleted ] >So, if you are a completist and must have EVERY indirectly Fripp-related >LP, then I'll grab it for you..... There's no need to buy this album to be a Fripp-completist. (Come to think of it, why should you buy anything you don't like just for completeness? I've got quite a few Gong-related albums I wish I'd never bought). However, *DO* try to hear this album because it's rather good. Not progressive in any way, of course, but everyone should try to be a little bit catholic with their musical tastes. It's classic post-punk/ angry-young-woman stuff. The lyrics are interesting, the band play well, and the arrangements are good. There are some fine numbers, particularly the opening "I Wanna Be Free". If I remember correctly, two more excellent tunes, "Street Creature" and "The Creepy Room" are on "Anthem" (although I may be getting confused and these might be from another Toyah album, "The Changeling"). Clive Backham McDonnell Information Systems, Hemel Hempstead, UK email: cbackham at uk dot mdis dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Discipline submission/Anekdoten Date: Fri, 08 Apr 1994 11:02:17 +0200 From: Per Andersson Hi. I never got around to tell you all about Anekdoten, and now I was beaten to it by Dennis dot Montgomery at EBay dot Sun dot COM, so I found myself really needing to tell you more about them. Anekdoten is a Swedish band, from a little town called Borlange (actually a with " over it) in Dalarna (with the red wooden horses), and they are very much like to old Crimson, '70-'75 I'd say. At their latest concert they also did Circus, from Crimson's Lizard album. Great concert, great sound. Some guy was crazy enough to travel from the US to this little town only to see them, and for that he also got a half page in the local newspaper. Anekdoten is: Nicklas Berg, Guitar and Mellotron Jan Erik Liljestrom, Bass and Vocals (Liljestr"om) Anna Sofi Dahlberg, Cello and some Mellotron Peter Nordin, Drums Their only album sofar is called "Vemod" which means melancholy, or sadness or something like that. The record company is "Virtalery", and the CD:s number is VIRTA 001. LP can be bought from Colours A/S, Postboks 275, 3701 Skien, Norway. You could also check out another swedish group called "Landberk" which is a bit similar, and also uses mellotron. The bassist in Landberk even has a record company and shop called "Mellotronen" in Stockholm (means 'the mellotron'). /Per [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: John S Mason Date: 8 Apr 94 11:44:20 GMT Subject: For Discipline In issue 129 Bob Bartz asked for information on his bootleg "Court Of The Schizoid Man". Well Bob your bootleg is the first Crimson line up as you thought, and was recorded at the Plumpton Festival on Saturday August 9th 1969. The versions of Travel Weary Capricorn and Get Thy Bearings on the Frame By Frame live disc are from this gig. Plumpton is a small town near the south coast resort of Brighton and is famous for its horse racing course. The festival was billed as The 9th Annual Jazz & Blues Festival and was held over three days 8th,9th &10th August. The following line up was advertised to appear:- Fri 8th pm Pink Floyd - Soft Machine - Keith Tippett Sat 9th Bonzo Dog Band - Roy Harper - Strawbs - The Who - KING CRIMSON - Fat Mattress - Aynsley Dunbar - Chicken Shack - John Surman - John Morgan - Yes - Idle Race - Groundhogs. Sun 10th Long John Baldry - Ron Geesin - Magna Carta - Jo Anne Kelly - Noel Murphy - The Nice - London Cast Of Hair - Keef Hartley - Eclection - Family - Chis Barber - Blodwyn Pig - Circus - Hard Meat - Steamhammer. The cost of admission for the whole weekend was stlg2-10shillings (about $3.70c at todays rate) I have recently seen a different version of this bootleg for sale in a local record store. It has a less comprehensive track listing , and has a version of In The Court Of The Crimson King from the 1969 BBC radio session tagged on to it (Which is yours Bob?). The BBC session was Crimsons first trip into the studio, where they recorded the following tracks for John Peels "Top Gear Show":- Epitaph - I Talk To The Wind - In The Court Of The Crimson King - Get Thy Bearings & 21st Century Schizoid Man. (I may be a little out on the above as its well over 10 years since I last heard the session) The session was recorded on May 6th 1969, and broadcast 5 days later. It precedes Crimsons recording of the first album by two months. The lyrics on the track In The Court Of The Crimson King are slightly different from the LP version (as are the ones for the same song at the Plumpton gig) I hope this information throws a little more light on your recent purchase Bob. All The Best John S Mason [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 06:58:51 CDT From: leigh at comm dot mot dot com (Todd Leigh) Subject: Sleepless With regards to versions of Sleepless... There are at least three versions that I am aware of (and probably more that I am not). I know this because a purchased the 12" single that was released before Three Of A Perfect Pair came out. It has three tracks. One is the album version, the second is titled the 'Instrumental Mix', and has the Bruford rototom work on it, the third, as long as both of the other two put together, is titled the 'Dance Mix'. If someone out there has the Fripp discography, I'd be interested in seeing it. [[ It's on the ftp site. See the note at the end of the digest for details -- Toby ]] Thanks, Todd. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 14:43 BST From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: UK discussion Dave Lane wrote: I've always wondered if "Carrying No Cross" was a KC leftover and if perhaps the title referred to its one-time violinist. Hey, perhaps Fripp, Levin, Belew et al will have a track called "Carrying No Bruford" on their forthcoming album. :-) I hate to spoil a good joke, but if you listen to UK1 boots where they play the song, the lyrics are actually "Carrying The Cross"; only later, for the 2nd album, were they changed to "*No* Cross". I'm enjoying these UK discussions, but I've been wondering: does anyone thing a UK disucssion list would be feasible? This would allow us to get out of the hair of people only interested in Yes, Crimson, Holdsworth, or whatever on the respective lists. Also, it might be a good place to discuss things relating to Jobson & Bozzio, who don't have another list where they can be discussed (is there a Zappa list?), unlike Bruford, Wetton & Holdsworth. Any takers? I suppose someone should post this on a.m.p, and Atavachron, and NFTE, etc... By the way, I don't think anyone should worry about Fripp having enough money to finace his creative efforts. I mean, he must have raked in the cash for his excellent portrayal of Clarence J. Boddiker in Robocop! "Guns, guns, guns!" Oh yeah: :-) Later, Ronald L. Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) School of Cognitive & Computing Sciences University of Sussex, Falmer, Brighton, BN1 9QH, UK Tel: +44 273 678581; Fax: +44 273 671 320 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:20:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeff Wallace Subject: Belew Does anyone have or know of any live recordings of Adrian Belew's Bears. I saw them several times and enjoyed their shows very much. Jeff Wallace Dallas, Texas jwallace at sun dot cis dot smu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 16:08:36 EDT From: Michael Fitzgerald Subject: Either/Orchestra "Red" I would have thought everyone knew this already, but the version of Red by the Boston Either/Orchestra big band is phenomenal. It is described in the notes as a "concerto for guitar" and is (I think) the highlight of the album (The Half Life of Desire, their third). I had the pleasure of working with the trombonist (former) in this band, Curtis Hasselbring and was thus inspired to search out some of their recordings. I heartily recommend this album to anyone with broad tastes. They also do 2 Hasselbring originals (Premonitions, which is fantastic; and He Who Hesitates) a bizzare version of the standard "Temptation", a medley of Miles Davis' "Circle In The Round" with Duke Ellington's "I Got It Bad" and a few more band originals. Mike [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Christopher M Savage Subject: Nothing "clever" to say... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Hello folks, I watched the MTV King Crimson concert from Japan many (too many?) years back and have seen reference to it on this net since. Can anyone direct me to a source for a videotape of this concert or any others FTM? On another note, I have to say I'm a bit surprised at the "down your nose" look that many of you give the Belew/Levin/Bruford/Fripp version of KC. This music is (to my mind and ear) just as challenging, groundbreaking, and fun as _any_ of the earlier stuff, (perhaps more so?) On a final note, Belew on the Crash Test Dummies cd? That figures. Seems he's on everything new and different that I like! Are your radio stations playing anything but "mm mm mm"? If you listened to the prog rock stations in Lansing, Michigan, you'd think they have only one song. I suppose I should be thankful they don't play _any_ KC. They'd pick one song and play it to death! That's my $0.02 such as it is... Chris [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: BRUNET MARTIN Subject: Similar as KC ?? Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 16:58:22 EDT Hi there, This my first post here and so on ... IMHO, I will say what everybodies are thinking, I like KC and think they are in the trio of the great( the three best band that I figure they bring changes in the music's world). Here they are by the year they appears: 1- John Mclaughlin w Miles Davis or Mahavishnu. 2- Frank Zappa 3- KC Anyway, this is my own opinion. I like them but they're not my best band. I just think they do what no others people did. Thumb's up to the Great... I always asked myself if there was any other Bands that did similar things as KC? a band that try to copy or just inovate in the way of KC. If not, too bad! I heard a new band last week: Praxis. It's great! It's a sort of hardcore mix with rap,rave,soul and funk. A lot of frippertonics and toys sounds in it. If you like hard fusion 'weirdo' funky jazzy rave music, try this... -- Mart Musical Approach in Computer Development. e341354 at er dot uqam dot ca M.A.C.D. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: gtaylor%vme dot heurikon dot com%heurikon dot UUCP at cs dot wisc dot edu (Gregory Taylor) Subject: An interesting recording from Japan.... Date: Mon, 4 Apr 94 21:23:18 CST This crossed my audio threshold recently, and I thought it might interest some of you. It appears to be a digital broadcast from NHK/Tokyo perhaps [could be J-Wave, since this seems more their style] copied and passed on through that bastion of the "souvenir recording " Italy [though not for much longer, I am reliably informed. It appears that the recent EU stuff is really starting to put the brakes on that sort of thing]. A recording from the Fripp/Sylvian Japanese leg of the 1993 tour. The sound quality is truly frightening - sound board if ever I heard it. Performances are slightly shorter than the LP material. One can actually *hear* Michael Brook's guitar, and the drumkit doesn't overwhelm everything else. The scribblings here refer to "Red Phantom" and "Why Not? S. r. l., who I assume must be responsible for it. "A New Dream" God's Monkey/Brightness Falls/Every Colour You Are/Jean the Birdman/Firepower/Damage/Exposure/Gone to Earth/20th Century Dreaming/Wave/River Man/Darshan/The First Day/The Blinding Light of Heaven. Nakano Sun Plaza Hall, Tokyo 10/26/93 For Berkeleyites, this looks like it might be worth a scour at Amoeba or that other place down the block and left down the hill. However one feels about this type of recording, it is certainly full of Mr. Fripp's assertion that a good live show beats the bejeepers out of the most carefully crafted studio take; it even swings from time to time. Regards, Gregory [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: KEN dot STUART at tigerteam dot org (KEN STUART) Subject: Re: kurt cobain suicide Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 03:05:00 GMT Organization: Tiger Team Information Network (510) 268-0102 From: MLEBLANC at WORLD dot STD dot COM To: ALL Subj: Re: kurt cobain suicide Date: 94/04/08 ================================================================ In article <2o4en4$4or at merlin dot nando dot net> bcain at nando dot net writes: >This just in off the newswire: Kurt Cobain, lead singer for Nirvana, >committed suicide. Apparently a shotgun blast to the head. > >bcain at nando dot net > "The physical, mental & emotional fatigue in the touring musician is a major contribution to the control of artists by the industry and the psychological distortion evident in so many artists: rock 'n' roll keeps you young, and kills you early." (said by Robert Fripp, in an interview back in 1981. First thing that popped into my mind upon hearing this. ) -- Michael J. LeBlanc (mleblanc at world dot std dot com) "Mark Twain and I are in very much the same position. We have to put things in such a way as to make people who would otherwise hang us believe that we are only joking." (George Bernard Shaw) --- * UniQWK v2.0 * The Windows Mail Reader [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 21:52:03 EDT Subject: HOT CRIMSON NEWS! I spoke to Gunn recently, and he told me the new Crimson line-up OFFICIALLY goes into the studio to start recording this SUNDAY. They'll be recording for a month solid. No word yet on track titles, album title or release date (this year seems likely though), but it is happening and they've got songs and many ideas ready to go. In other equally interesting news.. the line-up is OFFICIALLY a *SIX-PIECE*: Robert Fripp - guitars Adrian Belew - guitars/voice Tony Levin - Bass/Stick/voice Jerry Marotta - Drums Trey Gunn - Stick/voice and the newest member... Pat Mastalotto - Drums Mastalotto played on the Sylvian/Fripp tour, as well as on Trey Gunn's last solo release (1,000 years). He's also a founding member of Mr. Mister (everyone's allowed one major blemish on their musical resume right?). Mastalotto and Marotta appear TOGETHER on some songs. Does this sound scary or what? BTW, both Levin and Gunn play stick simultaneously on some tunes as well. This is gonna be a monster of a KC line-up. Think about the potential of this group, particularly live... two drummers? two guitarists? two stick players?!?!??! Should be interesting, to say the least. Anil Prasad wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: bworkman at aol dot com Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 00:01:09 EDT Subject: Re: Discipline #130 I am new to Discipline having read only #129 & 130. I have a couple of comments. First, someone said that their version of sleepless has a different opening mix. I don't know if that is true or not, but I do know that the end of "The Mincer" on S&BB is different on CD and on my LP. On the LP the sound garbles up and stops like someone is pulling the tape out of the machine. On the CD it just stops (early). I kind of liked the garble and thought it fit in well with the theme. Oh well. My Fripp autograph story. On halloween 1981, King Crimson played at Carnegie Mellon University, where I was a student and member of the concert committee. A friend of mine and I each brought our copies of Discipline and after the concert approached Robert Fripp and the rest of the band for autographs. There were about a dozen people trying to get autographs, mostly on ticket stubs and scraps of paper. The rest of the band signed a lot of stuff but Fripp only signed three autographs: our album covers (he asked where the record was and I told him I left it home so it wouldn't get scratched) and a 4 foot by 4 foot painting of the album that someone had painted and lugged to the show. To the people with ticket stubs and scraps he replied "I only sign my art". Lastly, I have been sorely tempted to purchase "The Great Deceiver" but havn't been able to justify the $$ for something I've heard nothing from that may have dubious quality sound. Could someone who has puchased this set relate the sound quality, and the "tightness" of the performance to say USA and "The noise Live at Frejas". The sound of USA I don't think is very good (although it's been years since I've heard it) and the sound on the VHS tape "the noise" I think is pretty good. Thanks Brian Workman BWorkman at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 12:42:29 -0500 From: lbh2 at cornell dot edu (Bruce Higgins) Subject: 3oaPP and Fripp Careful w/ Axe Availablity Gentle Frippians I recently came into possesion of the Audiophile Imports catalogue. This is a catalogue of prog/fusion CDs and videos. Many of you might find it interesting; I'm not hugely knowledgeable about most of the disks listed, but it appears to have a number of fairly hard to find items, albeit at slightly high prices (mostly $15-$30/disc). An insert lists KC "Three of a Perfect Pair Live in Japan" and "Robert Fripp:Careful with that Axe Vol. 2" for $40 and $30 respectively. It states that these are transfers from Laserdisc onto EHG videotape. (PAL & SECAM scans are available for an additional charge.) I leave all determinations of the legality and ethics of buying such items to you. I have not yet ordered from this vendor myself, tho the Orzic Tentacles selections pique my interest. The friend who turned me onto the catalogue has ordered and been pleased with AIs service and quality. If you are interested, Audiophile Imports can be reached at: PO Box 4801 Lutherville MD 21094-4801 USA Phone: 410-628-7601 Fax: 410-628-1948 Net disclaimer...I pass this on simply because I think it may be of interest etc. etc. etc...I have no affiliation with AI, etc etc etc...etc. etc. etc I repeatmyselfwhenunderstressIrepeatmyselfwhenuderstressIrepeatmyselfwhenunder L. Bruce Higgins Assistant Director LBH2 at cornell dot edu Public Affairs Information Services [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 16:39:15 EST From: msmith at crt dot doj dot gov Subject: For What It's Worth For Discipline #131: Hello Crimheads. This was sent to me by a fellow netter: "interesting note: crimson is in rehearsals and bruford is now confirmed. this from christine at a publication called 'music news network'. it's a monthy prog newsletter that is really good. lots of info and great interviews. subscriptions are $15.00/year - write to MNN, p.o. box 21531, tampa, fl 33622-1531 made payable to lisa mikita. i really enjoy it. some recent interviews have included adrian belew, steve hackett, and ian mosely." I don't work for them and I haven't read the publication, but it sounds good and may interest others on this list. This is the first I've heard that Bruford is in the new Crimson. Anybody know anything more about this? I guess this means Marotta is out? Cheers, Mike Smith msmith at crt dot doj dot gov [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:55:28 +0100 From: ingram_m at roborough dot gpsemi dot COM (Martin Ingram) Subject: Origins of UK Greetings to all Disciples, Just to add to the UK thread a little - according to my Yes biog, the band started up as Wetton, Bruford and Wakeman. Mr Wakeman left before anything was committed to tape, and was replaced by Eddie Jobson. Presumably AH joined soon after, but I've never heard that RF was in any way involved. Perhaps the next person to spot Robert could ask him? 8-) Just to add my vote, I prefer the first album, but Danger Money has it's moments as well. Cheers, Martin +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Martin Ingram, GEC Plessey Semiconductors, Roborough, UK | | INGRAM_M at roborough dot gpsemi dot com +44 752 693271 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "One day all of us will work" (Deacon Blue, The Very Thing, Raintown) | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: KEN dot STUART at tigerteam dot org (KEN STUART) Subject: Rollins Band Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 07:21:00 GMT Organization: Tiger Team Information Network (510) 268-0102 Hello, I just saw a great video on MTV's 120 Minutes. It was by the Rollins Band and called "Liar" or "The Liar" (or something close to that). The lyrics were particularly good (about the type of guy who preys on gullible women - that role being acted out by the lead singer - who is the only character in a REALLY low budget video). And, the music seems heavily influenced by King Crimson (of the Red variety). So, recommended! Check it out (120 Minutes is Midnight Sunday/Monday on the East and West Coasts of the USA, I'm sure they'll show it again soon, and it should turn up in whatever is the ultra-alternative middle of the night show on MTV Europe). Ken Ken dot Stuart at tigerteam dot org --- * UniQWK v2.0 * The Windows Mail Reader [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: heinrw at rpi dot edu (Bill Heinrichs) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 17:08:45 -0400 Subject: Anagram ftp site Here are some locations to ftp anagram decoders. Due to past inquiries on "Larks ..." I thought others may want to see for themselves. >It's on marvin.cs.uah.edu, directory pub/wordplay . >The filenames are in the form wordplayVER.tar.gz . )A quick whizz with xarchie revealed that the gson anagram )generating software may be found at the following sites : )cs.columbia.edu:/archives/mirror2/world-info/obi/Nerd.Humor/ObfuscatedC/1992/)gson.c.gz )unix.hensa.ac.uk:/pub/uunet/doc/literary/obi/Nerd.Humor/ObfuscatedC/1992/gson).c.Z Mr. Bill [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Return-Path: Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 03:00:00 -0600 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: Haaden Two Here's something I didn't know before... The backwards phrase in "Haaden Two" on Fripp's Exposure album is from the Monty Python "flying sheep" sketch. "One thing is for sure, the sheep is not a creature of the air. Baaaa..." This was pointed out to me by someone I met on the network (I gave him the Discipline address). I think I'll let him (allon at intercon dot com) post the finding himself. (if he doesn't post soon, however, you can put the relevent excerpt of my post in the digest...) I have converted the sounds to .au form. You can pull them off my hard drive by ftp'ing to 144.92.90.120, username anonymous. Haaden1.au and Haaden2.au are the files you want. It's only talk... -john [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.