Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #130 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 130, Thursday, 7 April 1994 Today's Topics: Tamm's Choice Re: Discipline #129 Re: Fripp book Info, please Fripp Anecdote Review: Anekdoten Groon Territorial Pissings muzak Toyah's Anthem LP CD vs Cass versions of "Sleepless" General musings Fripp's music makes you temporarily clever or stupid? South Bank Special UK I vs. UK II submission for discipline: on the bootleg front Primus plays Crimson Adrian Belew & Crash Test Dummies We'll Let You Know [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 16:49:54 -0600 (CST) From: HILL_T at DT3 dot DT dot UH dot EDU Subject: Tamm's Choice Hello everyone. I was looking through Eric Tamm's Fripp book and came across a section in which Fripp gave a concert of Frippertronics at a place called the "Kitchen". Tamm said there was a bootleg of this concert called _Pleasures in Pieces_, and that these were the best Frippertronics he had ever heard. Now, my favorite Frippertronics piece is "The New World" from the first LoCG album, but I'm interested in this bootleg that Tamm mentioned. Has anyone heard or purchased _Pleasures in Pieces_? Will it be offically released? I'd like to hear it. Thanks, Ted Now off to the Pink Floyd show... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 20:45:51 -0600 From: Damon C Capehart Subject: Re: Discipline #129 I guess I must apologize for the "Commish" info. Apparently the 'next week on The Commish' clips didn't offer enough info to make me realize that obviously Bill Bruford is NOT about to do T.V. However, I must admit, that guy looks a HECK of a lot like B.B. He could play B.B. in a movie based on the evolution of King Crimson! or Yes! or U.K.! umm, or Earthworks! :) :) Yeah! :) Damon Capehart | "SALESMEN!!!" -- Rush dcapehar at utdallas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 22:52:53 -0500 (EST) From: James John Hannigan Subject: Re: Fripp book Crimheads: I am new to this list, so forgive me if I am covering old ground. I recently purchased the book about Fripp published in 1990 by Eric Tamm, and was wondering what people's opinions are about it. I am not a guitar player, so I was a bit concerned that it'd be too much indecipherable "techie" talk, but it seemed to have enough discussion of Fripp and his music which I would understand and enjoy reading. A point I'd like to make regarding the release of live material vs. bootlegged copies; I've only been into KC for a few years (not even alive when ITC was released!), and had seen precious little bootlegged stuff. My first album was USA, and when I finally got Great Deceiver, it blew me away so much that I've been on a KC "kick" for a long time, including the purchasing of most of the other albums that I didn't have. My point is Mr. Fripp and his record company can take solace that there is at least one fan greatly appreciative of this box set who has shown his gratitude by buying most of the entire catalog. Jim Hannigan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: r dot derousse2 at genie dot geis dot com Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 07:03:00 BST Subject: Info, please In Discipline #129, ToddM wrote: >There have been a few comments recently regarding U.K.'s _Danger Money_, >one in particular warned against its' purchase. I must disagree. Both >U.K. studio albums should be must-haves for any prog fan, though I think >_Danger Money_ is the better of the two. This is an unpopular opinion, but I tend to agree. Maybe it's because I heard DM first, but I find myself listening to it more often than the first album, and I consider myself a big Bruford and Holdsworth fan. >One of the interesting rumors I'd heard was that UK was originally going to >be a quartet called "The League of Gentleman". It was going to have Jobson >on keyboards and violin, Wetton on bass and vocals, Bruford on drums and >Fripp on guitar. At the last minute, Fripp opted to back out, but think >about what might have been. Instead, Fripp started his own little league. >The only evidence to substantiate that something like this may have been in >the works is that "The Sahara of Snow Part II" from Bruford's "One of a >Kind" has a Jobson co-writer credit. But it may have been a leftover UK >tidbit, so it may just be an interesting rumor and nothing more. Actually, there is more evidence to substantiate this. Although he never referred to the name "League of Gentlemen," Eddie Jobson said in an interview on USA's Night Flight program that Fripp was involved in the early organization of the band but subsequently dropped out of the project. A few questions about other subjects mentioned in #129: 1) What is the name of the new Nine Inch Nails album with Belew? 2) Robert Bartz mentioned that Damn the Machine put out a CD-5 with Cat Food on it. Robert, what is the name of this CD-5? --Roy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: aaron at minster dot york dot ac dot uk Subject: Fripp Anecdote Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 09:40:19 +0100 (BST) Hello Disciplinarians, An anecdote told to me by a friend over the weekend. My friend and an acquantaince of his had gone to see the League of Gentleman when playing in Leeds and were to meet a third person there, whom they could not find. The concert was almost in the form of a seminar and at the end Robert Fripp invited questions from the audience, at which point the friend of a friend deflated Fripp's pomposity by asking "Where's Mick", and Fripp posed this question to the rest of the crowd. Aaron Turner aaron at minster dot york dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 07:37:19 +0800 From: Dennis dot Montgomery at EBay dot Sun dot COM (Dennis Montgomery) Subject: Review: Anekdoten Anekdoten ========= I've stumbled across a band that's a guaranteed sure hit for us fans of mid 70's Crimso. The band is called "Anekdoten" and their CD is called _Venod_. Instrumentation includes guitar/drums/vocals/mellotron/ bass/cello. And when I say bass, I mean the same type of distorted bass Wetton was tearing concert halls apart with in '74 :) There are sections of English vocals throughout this '93 release though the songs are for the most part dominated by instrumental passages of great power and emotion. The songs are played in a variety of moods but my 2 favourites I call "Seek and Destroy Mode" (which reminds me of driving Red-era songs 'Red', & 'One More Red Nightmare') and "Deep Sadness Mode" (where the fuzz bass is replaced by some of the most melancholy cello driven music I've ever heard...this reminds me of the USA version of Exiles). They also make great use of dynamics by putting quiet/delicate/sad cello driven vocal sections next to some of the most intense seek & destroy sounds since Crimso's Red. I'd highly recommend this to anyone appreciative of Starless&BibleBlack, Red, & USA era Crimso. I'm not sure of general availability but I got my copy through the hard-to-find import king Ranjit :) KingCrimson*Tull*Greenslade*Edith*Marillion*Ethos*GentleGiant*Minutemen*Fish** * _______ *Sepultura*Queen*Beatles*Focus*Cathedral*NiademsGhost*BlackSabbatH U / \ a n | (. \ \ "Every day a little sadder, a little madder, someone get me w i \ >\ | a ladder" ...and who says Greg Lake writes awful lyrics? k v-- > |< | w e / >/ |Dennis Richards Montgomery:Software Engineer:Sun Microsystems i r | (. / / n s \_______/REM*SFF*ELP*PFM*801*Eno*Yes*Eloy*12thNight*SydBarrett*SexPistols*d Zero*Aragon**Anekdoten**VanDerGraaf*SadLovers&Giants*OldGenesis*KateBush*Zappa [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Roy SeGuine Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 11:06:41 -0500 Subject: Groon Can someone enlighten me as to which album(s) Groon appears on? It's been way to many years since I've heard this gem. --- Roy SeGuine Cyberspace Architect - rseguine at buckeye dot mitre dot org *Likes to comb his hair with a dipper ride* [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 10:52:49 PST From: "John Relph" Subject: Territorial Pissings "Mark E. Ferguson" writes: > >"John Relph" writes: >> >> I think _Lizard_ is much better than _Islands_. >> I can do without "Lady of the Making Water" but the >> remainder of the album is pretty good. > >Hmmm, choosing a favorite or even attempting to rank King Crimson albums is >always a touchy task. First, though, the referred to "Lady of the Making >Water" is actually "Lady of the Dancing Water". Yeah. I know. It was a joke. I hope y'all know what "making water" means. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 15:14:40 MST From: pmartz at dsd dot es dot com (Paul Martz) Subject: muzak Sheeran_F at ODG dot ceo dot dg dot com writes: > You might not believe this, but I have heard 21st century S. M. and some > other KC#1 cuts now and then, in Japanese department store's muzak. The > original cuts. Thank God! Yesterday my wife and I were eating in a restaurant (in the US). When a muzak version of Dylan's "Tangled up in Blue" came on, she said to me: "Why can't they just play the original song? Why do they have to redo it and ruin it?" It is refreshing to know that Japan doesn't buy into the American idea of muzak. -paul "Eno is the one, Eno's the one to take pmartz at dsd dot es dot com One hundred percent for your stomach's sake... Evans & Sutherland Bubbly bubbly Eno!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: KEN dot STUART at tigerteam dot org (KEN STUART) Subject: Toyah's Anthem LP Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 02:45:00 GMT Organization: Tiger Team Information Network (510) 268-0102 I just saw a copy of Toyah's Anthem LP used at my local store. This was probably a cast off from an ex-co-owner of the store who was a Crimson fan (he obtained the GD box for me), and don't worry, no one else in town will even have an idea what it is :-). I seem to remember it saying 1981, and no mention of Fripp on the insert and no mention of this album in the Fripp discography, so I assume it is pre-Fripp. So, if you are a completist and must have EVERY indirectly Fripp-related LP, then I'll grab it for you, just as a favor to Discipline (hope others would do the same for me). It's an import [ie non-USA :-) ] pressing, complete with insert, for $1.75 + 7.25% tax + $1.05 book rate shipping (you can add fancier shipping if you want to pay for it; I've got lots of LP boxes sitting around, no problem). Ken Ken dot Stuart at tigerteam dot org --- * UniQWK v2.0 * The Windows Mail Reader / Tiger Team Buddhist Information Network / / Modem: (510) 268-0102 info at tigerteam dot org / [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: CD vs Cass versions of "Sleepless" Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 22:36:37 -0800 From: Mike Brodhead [Apologies if this is old news to some.] After putting at least 8 years of listening into my cassette copy of _Three of a Perfect Pair, I finally bought it on CD. Obviously, I was thrilled to hear the album with better fidelity and was able to come to some of the songs with new ears. There was one surprise, though. There is a different mix of "Sleepless"! What's the deal? The bassline at the begining is *significantly* different. There is a big fat rest in the middle of each measure. Less importantly, the last high note of the pattern is different. (I didn't even pick that up right away.) IMHO, the opening is much weaker with the new bassline. What do y'all think? The liner notes mantion that "Sleepless" was mixed by none other than Bob Clearmountain. I don't remember that from the other version. (I passed my cassette copy on to a friend, so I don't have it around to compare.) Are there other changes I've missed? What about other KC albums? --Mike Brodhead [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 03:30:26 -0500 From: ca614 at cleveland dot Freenet dot Edu (D. S. Patrick Popeck) Subject: General musings I'd first like to note that I did enjoy the last issue of this newsletter; I found it refreshing to find others so interested in Crimsonian music. In six years in Ohio, I have heard one song by Crimson on the airwaves: I Talk To The Wind was played in a drugstore! Second, I don not care whether Mr. Fripp grants autographs or not. The importance of such trivialities is lost upon this person, but I suppose that some possible vicarious thrill may be garnered by a name on a cocktail napkin or the like (though writing beyond the name of a new female acquaintance seems boring). Having read what I have just written, it seems important to say that I am not a highfalutin snob, but merely one who enjoys the music created by the Crimsonian factions. That, hopefully, is what binds us all here. Can anyone reveal the new lineup? I hope that Mr. Levin will be joining; his presence will guarantee the atmosphere that made the last few albums for me. The wonderful, evil emanations made during The Howler still make me smile today. I understand that Mr. Bruford will not be in the lineup. No comment until I hear who will be drumming would be prudent, but visceral response is negative. [The 1994 King Crimson line-up is believed to be: Robert Fripp Trey Gunn Tony Leven Adrian Belew Jerry Marotta -- Toby] Thank you for tolerating my proclivities; understand that my lady and ALL OR NOTHING are all that stands between myself and the destruction of my stereo because of, inter alia, the degeneration of radio. It's very sad when you have to rely on weak college radio signals to hear anything new or interesting! Patrick ca614 at cleveland dot freenet dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 09:39:04 -0500 From: javasque at entropy dot bph dot jhu dot edu (Jaime Vasquez) Subject: Fripp's music makes you temporarily clever or stupid? Well this is out of Classic CD magazine, probably you have heard something about it already: Tests at UCLA's Neurobioloby Department in California have shown that people who listen to a Mozart symphony before attempting an IQ test scored higuer than if they listen to silence, because the clever bits of the brain are stimulated by the blood flow that ensues as you try to follow the fugue in the last movement of the "Jupiter Symphony", and are in a better state to go on and work out which box with a hat and an arrow sticking in it is the next time in the sequence. Sadly the effect is short-lasting, only about fifteen minutes. UCLA scientists speculate that REPEATED PATTERN MUSIC may have a detrimental effect on IQ tests. So... what about the last incarnation? Where would it fall? It does require quite a bit of attention to understand what is going on, and all that. But it does have repeating patterns. What do you think guys? Jaime Vasquez javasque at eos dot ncsu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 03:05:24 EST From: KCFA33A at prodigy dot com (MS LAURA E REED) Subject: South Bank Special John S. Mason had written: >Way back in '81 I saw a documentary on Robert Fripp. It was shown shortly >after I had seen Discipline/Crimson in Manchester in May of that year. I am hoping that this is the same program, but I have a video copy (of very poor quality) of a BBC program called _South Bank Special_. Within the 30 minutes, Fripp is shown signing autographs for several record store patrons, having tea with his mother and having a guitar session with Andy Summers. Several collectors in the U.S. list this show as having an air date of 1984. [Hmm. I wonder if there is some confusion here. The BBC don't make the South Bank series -- that's an ITV programme. From what Laura says the programme sounds like the BBC South-West regional programme made about Fripp in (I think '84). -- Toby] Laura Reed [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 19:24:36 EST From: David=Lane%HQ%Rational at Vines1 dot ratsys dot com Subject: UK I vs. UK II Regarding "UK" vs. "Danger Money": Please do not consider this to be in any way a flame, but my personal observation on the subject is that folks who still find stuff like ELP interesting listening would obviously find the 2nd UK LP more to their liking. I find that of the "Progressive Rock Big Four" (ELP/Genesis/KC/Yes) bands, KC is the only one that still sounds interesting after all these years. It would be interesting to know, on average, how long the folks who prefer the 2nd LP have been listening to this stuff, as opposed to those who prefer the 1st one. < ToddM at ramrod dot lmt dot mn dot org> "ToddM" wrote: > If the songs "The Only Thing She Needs" and "Carrying No Cross" (their best > song hands down) don't illicit positive responses then you're not listening > attentively. Well, those *are* hands down the two best cuts on "Danger Money", but they were both in the repertoire of the original Bruford/Holdsworth edition of the band. Having had the opportunity to attend one concert given by the original UK incarnation and two by the Bozzio lineup, I'd differentiate between each band's approach by describing the original as looser and more willing to experiment--somewhat in the spirit of KC, while the 2nd lineup seemed tighter, more rehearsed, and more "chops"-oriented--much like ELP, another band whose shows I've had occasion to attend. It was almost as if they had everything written down in advance. > Crimson Related Comments (or at least Fripp): > One of the interesting rumors I'd heard was that UK was originally going to > be a quartet called "The League of Gentleman". It was going to have Jobson > on keyboards and violin, Wetton on bass and vocals, Bruford on drums and > Fripp on guitar. At the last minute, Fripp opted to back out, but think > about what might have been. Instead, Fripp started his own little league. > The only evidence to substantiate that something like this may have been in > the works is that "The Sahara of Snow Part II" from Bruford's "One of a > Kind" has a Jobson co-writer credit. But it may have been a leftover UK > tidbit, so it may just be an interesting rumor and nothing more. I don't know about your rumor, but The Bruford tune "Forever Until Sunday" originated as a UK piece; it was played by the original lineup on their 1st North American tour. Unauthorized recordings of this exist. Ditto for the previously mentioned "Carrying No Cross" and "The Only Thing She Needs". The Pittsburgh version of "Starless" from "The Great Deceiver" features lyrics not in the original song that ended up in UK's "Caesar's Palace Blues", as has been pointed out previously on this list. I've always wondered if "Carrying No Cross" was a KC leftover and if perhaps the title referred to its one-time violinist. Hey, perhaps Fripp, Levin, Belew et al will have a track called "Carrying No Bruford" on their forthcoming album. :-) -- Dave Lane davidl at ratsys dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 17:54:48 PST From: steve at scopus dot com (Steve Yockey) Subject: submission for discipline: on the bootleg front Here's a report on a few Fripp related items, which can be hopefully added to the discography (BTW, could someone (John Relph?) email me a copy (I'm not ftp capable)). Robert Fripp & David Sylvian "A New Dream" 2cd Red Phantom RPCD 2149/50 CD1: God's Monkey 6:21 Brightness Falls 6:23 Every Colour You Are 5:46 Jean the Birdman 3:57 Firepower 7:15 Damage 4:36 Gone To Earth 2:23 (mislabeled "Gone To Heart") 20th Century Dreaming 8:43 CD2: Wave 6:13 Riverman 5:13 Darshan 11:22 (mislabelled "Darshaw") The First Day 5:21 Blinding Light Of Heaven 4:09 Both CDs together just over 80min Sound Quality: EX+, soundboard, and the mix is great. Get this at all costs! Too bad they don't have the brook set on there since it would easily fit... Robert Fripp - "Kan-non Power" PLR CD 9394 Live at TFM Hall, Tokyo Nov 11th, 1992 (of course this is really the RF String Quintet) This is the same show as the video but has more tracks and better sound. What I'd like to know is if it has the same tracks exactly as "Seascape". Could someone shed some light? Tracks: Soundscape Yamanashi Blues Melrose Ave. Kan-non Power Firescape An Easy Way Moving Force Asturias Walk Don't Run Chromatic Fantasy Contrapunctus Eye of the Needle Blockhead Hope Urban Scape (should be Urban Landscape?) Pipeline Kan-non Power Total time: 74:14 Sound Quality: EX+, soundboard -steve steve at scopus dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Pete Townshend Subject: Primus plays Crimson Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 16:14:14 -0500 (EST) Hello- I heard Primus open for Rush in Indianapolis. They only played for half an hour but a good chunk of that time was spent playing an instrumental cover of Thela Hun Ginjeet. It was clear from their performance that they really love Crimson's music. I am afraid, however, that not many members of the audience seemed to recognize the tune. All the best! simms ssimms at silver dot ucs dot indiana dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 04 Apr 1994 20:44:37 -0500 (cdt) From: Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man (John P Mohan) Subject: Adrian Belew & Crash Test Dummies This is for all you Crash Test Dummies fans out there... I'm not sure if there are many people who are fans of both KC and CTD, so I thought I'd pass this along. I bought the new CTD cd last week and was pleasantly surprised to find that Belew plays synth guitar on the title track ('God Shuffled His Feet'). I highly recommend that anyone who is interested in Crash Test Dummies buy this cd. It is very good. JP [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 06:23:14 -0600 From: dalton at isidis dot colorado dot edu (lizard man) Subject: We'll Let You Know As I listen to Fracture, Providence, Great Deceiver Disc One, i am reminded of an impression i once had and thought i'd share it.... Picture Robert Fripp, leaving a meeting with music industry reps, at which he has played for them a demo of his band....apparently they are not terribly impressed, in fact they have no idea what to make of the horrific noise they have just been exposed to. Of course, Mr. Fripp is not at all dejected. Pursing his lips sternly together, he vows to sarcastically title the piece using the very words that are still burning in his ears..... Anyway, this is the scenario that came to my mind ten years ago as i listened to the cut. Now i've finally got that off my chest! --lizard man [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.