From toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Thu Jun 18 09:29:12 1992 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 17:23:09 GMT Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: discipline #13 discipline, Number 13 Sunday, 3 November 1991 Today's Topics: Re: Crimson boots Re: Save your Money, Re: my Review Re: Pete Sinfield - (King Crimson) King Crimson help? Fripp Discography [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 11:41:07 PST From: John dot McCartney at EBay dot Sun dot com ( The Lion of Symmetry ) Subject: Re: Crimson boots >LLR60 Return of Crimson King UK '69 Does anyone know what's on this? I have a bootleg tape, containing the following: - from Giles Giles & Fripp - Digging My Lawn North Meadow One In A Million Elephant Song Suite #1 Eurdite Eyes (that's right , just the songs, not the stories!) - Plumpton, England 8/9/69 - Court Of The Crimson King Capricorn Dawn Drum Solo Devil's Triangle 21st Century Schizoid Man Get Thy Bearings - Chesterfield, England 9/7/69 - Why Don't You Just Drop In? Epitaph I Talk To The Wind I was wondering if the '69 CD has the same stuff. The sound quality of my tape is pretty poor, but the preformances are great! scorch [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1991 15:42:10 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Patrick Arnold Subject: Re: Save your Money, Re: my Review Re: Save your Money: Doug, I'd like for you to more strongly defend your opinions, because I don't buy them. 1. The booklet is nothing more than an updated version of the one issued with "A Young Person's Guide." What's your point? It's in a nicer font and has color pictures, what more could you ask for? ;-) My booklet has at least 10 more pages of that outside critical commentary you're so badly looking for. Did you not notice, for example, Greg Lake's lambasting Fripp in a 1978 interview and chastising him for continuing with the name King Crimson, arguing that the name should have died with the original line-up? Or how about Robert Palmer making a commentary on rabid loyalty of fans at a 1981 concert who were wondering aloud, "what the ... is this?" to african gamelan music being played before the concert, booing the opening punk group off stage, and then fanatically cheering through the whole african-gamelan/punk-influenced KC set, leaving Robert Palmer wondering if the fans were actually listening. I would have suspected this is exactly the kind of critical commentary you'd be looking for. 2. What record company kludged this boxed set? Fripp produced this boxed set. Like you, I'd rather not have seen a straightforward kludge by combining old Young Person's Guide plus the Compact King Crimson, which this isn't. We would have had 2-1/2 CDs of old material and only a couple of songs sufficiently different or not found anywhere else. Here, we have two songs sufficiently different on the first CD alone, two remixes and an extra unreleased song on the third CD, and a fourth CD of mostly unreleased or remixed live material. That's a much bigger ratio of old to new compared to YPG or Compact KC. Not even considering the sequencing of music, which is much better on Essential (particularly the second CD) than on either YPG or Compact KC. This boxed set seems well-thought out; I'd like to know what boxed set you are comparing this to which makes this one appear so kludged. 3. The 1969 live tracks may have come from bootlegs. If I understand good concerts, most of them are illegally taped by one or more people, some of which become bootlegs, usually sold locally as tapes but sometimes sold globally as records/CDs. I think the odds have it that no matter what one would release as "live" material, there is some chance that a bootleg of the same concert exists. Wouldn't it be great to disseminate "exellent" bootleg recordings? If Bob did this, I am impressed! Good for Bob and the group! At least to me, Mars was well remixed, and I don't have the money to plunk down $10-40 per bootleg to discover which ones are good. What I think is slimy is the proliferation of CD bootlegs of pathetic sound quality at $10-40 a pop, and if you're right that King Crimson didn't record those concerts themselves but put the music on this Essential CD anyway, that's stupendous. Great. The sound quality of the first two live pieces on the fourth CD may be competing with Earthbound's sound quality, but the music is awesome. As an aside, I have a Concertgebow CD bootleg, and the Essential King Crimson versions of Talking Drum and 21st Century Schizoid Man sound pristine compared to the toilet sounds of my bootleg. They are definitely not from the same master tape as my bootleg. I am glad to hear the Essential versions. 4. I don't know about you, but I sold my entire Jem/Warner/Polydor King Crimson collection used at $8 per CD and bought the whole "Definitive Edition" collection at $10 per CD. So, while you may have been a fool with your money, I thank Fripp and Tony Arnold for making *much improved* remixed and remastered CDs, and only paying an extra $2 per CD to get them. I agree with Fripp's argument that the original CDs were a bigger crime than flooding the market with a new set of remastered CDs. 5. Adrian Belew's vocal on Cadence and Cascade blows Gordon Haskell's out of the water. The difference? Adrian has a good voice. Gordon doesn't. Gordon didn't want to be in the band anyway. Good riddance. I feel very good about this boxed set. Re: my Review: John, >Cat food sounds... This Cat Food doesn't even sound like the Young Person's Guide (or rather, the "single") version. There is definitely a minor tinkering with the guitar part, along with a glitch following the "wallop" in the middle (it doesn't do a third stereo pan like the YPG/Poseidon versions, and a couple of seconds later there's a high-pitched "wzzzp" like a tape got stuck). >typographical (and spelling) errors.... Ironically, one of Fripp's comments in the old YPG and in this new Essential booklet had to do with spelling of band members names, and Bill Bruforg was the example, but in the Essential booklet, the name is spelled Bruford! So many typos and they actually "fix" this one when they shouldn't have! >The Family Tree... It is a good history, but I personally don't care about which twenty-odd no-name bands Gordon Haskell played in, especially considering he wasn't a member for very long, didn't tour, and left because he didn't like the intensity of the band, which is one of its cornerstones. I could have lived with a teeny arrow pointing diagonally to "blah blah blah" instead of a whole digression of bands. That's one example. >Fripp-bashing... It seems like Fripp gets grandiose ideas easily, and I agree he needs to keep this in check through criticism. When a band member like Adrian Belew makes a reference like, "I never understood Fripp's Drive to 1981 and Incline to whatever..." you know Fripp is not considered a God at least by the people he surrounds himself with. That's a good sign. TTFN, - Brian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: rga at rti dot rti dot org (Randy Alley) Subject: Re: Pete Sinfield - (King Crimson) Date: 18 Oct 91 18:03:25 GMT In article <1831 at loki dot une dot oz dot au> geoff at loki dot une dot oz dot au (Geoff Hill) writes: >Many years ago Pete Sinfield (he wrote the lyrics for the first 4 or 5 King >Crimson albums) released a solo album. Which featured a beautiful and very >melodic piece called "Song of the Seagoat". The album featured Greg Lake (ELP) >and some other King Crimson musicians. > As far as I know, "Still" is out of print, except possibly as a Japanese import. It's an interesting album, and features Greg Lake on vocals on one tune, and King Crimson alumni throughout the album. I always felt that the Big Band arrangements (brass, sax, flute ect) by people like Marc Charig, Nick Evans and Mel Collins were quite reminiscent of King Crimson's Lizard (on which those guys also appeared !) On a side note, I discovered recently while listening to a local classical station that the melody from "Song of the Seagoat" was lifted from a classical work, although I've now forgotten the composer. Anyone know the composer and work ? Randy rga at rti dot rti dot org [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cochran at spam dot rtp dot dg dot com (A. Jing Hippy) Subject: King Crimson help? Date: 28 Oct 91 16:29:26 GMT I've just recently re-discovered my old "In the Court of Crimson King" tape, and remembered that I never could pick out all of the lyrics to "21st Century Schizoid Man". Anybody got 'em that would be willing to share them, or does anybody know if they're on a server somewhere? Thanks. +------------------------------------------------------+ |Dave Cochran (cochran at spam dot rtp dot dg dot com) | |Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC | +------------------------------------------------------+ |"I'm a virgin, I'm just not very good at it." | | --Valeria Golino, "Hot Shots" | +------------------------------------------------------+ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 10:57:33 PST From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Fripp Discography Ok, fool that I am, I started compiling a more detailed Fripp / Crimso discography. If you would like a copy of what I've got, please drop me a line and I'll e-mail it to you. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this group or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The views expressed in discipline are those of the individual authors only.