Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #129 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 129, Sunday, 27 March 1994 Today's Topics: Re: Discipline #126 Fripp Documentry Nine Inch Nails Damn the Machine covers Fripp/Bootleg question Re: Discipline #128 Another Fripp autograph adventure UK Commentary Another "Red" DW VS. RF Fripp vs. the Grateful Dead on live recordings and boots Belew's Acoustic CD?! Reply to: Discipline #128 what is a "fripp"? BRUFORD Larks' Tungues bulb A final note on the titling of LTiA Belew Fan Club newsletter OPEN SEASON ON MR. FRIPP Adrian on Modern Rock Live Live Crimson Mobile Fidelity Tarkus New Tibbetts Holdsworth Robert Wyatt [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Hello everyone. My apologies for the delay in getting this issue out, and its corresponding large size. I know most people do prefer shorter and more regularly produced digests. My apologies -- it was a combination of flu and the start of the conference season! The next issue will be out after the Easter break. Best wishes to everyone Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 08:53:51 -0400 (EST) From: "Mark E. Ferguson" Subject: Re: Discipline #126 "John Relph" writes: > > I think _Lizard_ is much better than _Islands_. Although it does get a bit > weird at times. Very jazzy. But Robert's acoustic playing is wonderful on > "Cirkus", and "Indoor Games" and "Happy Family" are great pop songs, albeit > twisted (of course). I can do without "Lady of the Making Water" but the > remainder of the album is pretty good. Perhaps Mr Fripp does not like this > album because it is pretty wild. Too much freedom means lack of framework? > Speculation only. > > -- John > Hmmm, choosing a favorite or even attempting to rank King Crimson albums is always a touchy task. First, though, the referred to "Lady of the Making Water" is actually "Lady of the Dancing Water". My feelings about Lizard are twofold: 1) It's a fabulous album 2) It's wholly unlike other KC albums. My second thought arises from the feeling I get whenever I listen to it: this album contains music that was never intended to be performed. I mean, it's got fabulous production, but the way it's mixed/arranged/orchestrated leads me to believe that this would be horrendously difficult to perform with the typical KC roadshow. Anybody: was any of this stuff *ever* performed? This album is like the "love letter" rather than the "hot date" that Fripp refers to in the Great Deceiver book - I don't have it in front of me so I can't quote exactly, but that's the gist. Just my $.02 american...... FERGUS [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: John Neesom Date: 11 Mar 94 15:40:20 GMT Subject: Fripp Documentry Way back in 1981 I saw a documentry on Robert Fripp.It was shown shortly after I had seen Discipline/Crimson in Manchester in May of that year.The film went out early evening on a weekday, Ithink on BBC2. It started with RF leaving London by car to return to Dorset.My recollections are now a little vague after so long, but I remember him talking to a group of young musicians in a record store [The one in Wimborne High Street?],and being interviewed whilst walking in the local countryside. The film ended with RF playing some solo electric guitar in a church [Wimborne Minster?] Can anyone remember this half hour documentry and perhaps recall it in more detail.To the best of my knowledge it has never been repeated on British TV. All The Best John S Mason. [ This was a 30 minute documentary aired by the BBC in 1982 or thereabouts. I taped it then and was able to find it to lend to John! ] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 09:54:36 -0600 From: jklein at midway dot uchicago dot edu (Joshua Klein) Subject: Nine Inch Nails Hi All. I picked up the new Nine Inch Nails cd a couple of days ago, and I must say it is the most sonically superior album I've heard in a long while. Real scary, hellish stuff, and quite literally the loudest thing I have ever heard. In any case, Mr. Belew makes an appearance on a couple of tracks: Mr. Self Destruct: credited with "texture penetrating guitars", a bunch of cool loops The Becoming: "ring mod guitar" The album also features cool work by Russel Mills, who's worked with Eno. Josh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ jklein at midway dot uchicago dot edu: 25-22-26-6-7-18-21-6-15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 09:20:40 -0700 (MST) From: Robert Bartz Subject: Damn the Machine covers Fripp/Bootleg question Hi there. This is my first post to this group, and I must say it's one of the more interesting groups I've seen. I never thought that there'd be this many KC/Fripp fans, but it's great! Anyway, prog-metalers Damn the Machine (featuring ex-Megadeth guitarist Chris Poland) recently put out a CD-5 with "Cat Food" on it. Since I'm kinda new to Fripp, what album is this on? It's a good version, by the way. In fact, if you're into this kind of music, I definitely recommend checking them out. I recently picked up a bootleg tape entitled, "Court of the Schizoid Man." Song lists goes :"Schizoid Man", "Get Thy Bearings", "Court of the Crimson King", "Improvisation with the Devil's Triangle". No date, but I'm guessing it's on their first tour. Does anyone have any info? A few questions for a newcomer as well: 1. Why did Greg Lake/John Wetton leave? Was it Fripp's decision or their own? Also, why did the 1980's band break up? 2. I noticed that Greg Lake did not play any instruments on COTKC and WOP, yet obviously he is very proficient on guitar and bass. Any particular reason why he didn't play anything in KC? 3. Any word on John Wetton's solo album? I heard January, but nothing since. Thanks in advance for your help, and keep up the great discussions. Bob [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 12:12:05 EST From: White_Lily Subject: Re: Discipline #128 > Tibbetts is strongly influenced by Fripp (so it seems)-- One time after a Steve Tibbets' performance, I was helping his load up his gear and I was talking with him. I mentioned that I was going to be seeing Fripp play live the following night and the only response he had to that was "Fripp is a filthy old drunk", or something to that effect. He did not seem too interested in Fripp. A comment on the thread about Fripp being an ass: Almost every time that I have seen him perform, he was very friendly afterwards. I am sure that the times we was 'rude', he was just having a bad day like we all have. He _is_ a human :) One time that I seen him, my friend was very anxious to meet him. During the performance (it was the string quartet before they were called so), Fripp and the other musicians left the stage with the Frippertronics playing and sat at the back of the theatre. So my friend decided to go up to meet him. Fripp would not respond to anything my friend said and when my friend ask one of the other guitarists a question, he whispered "we are not allowed to talk". Fripp then denied a little boy his autograph. Seemingly, this event ruined the show becuase they did not come out for an encore. But after the show, Fripp gave a private speech relating to J.G. Bennett and Gurdjieff which I attended, and then after that, he spoke openly with many people and signed autographs and answered questions. That seems to be his normal self the times I have met him in good spirits. Just my 2 cents. BTW, anyone ever see a boot of this show? I man grabbed the DAT from the mixing board that the show was recorded on and then ran out of the theatre. It was a show in Glassboro, NJ about 2 years ago in June. Lilie [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: bigblack at netcom dot com (Lovely Miss A) Subject: Another Fripp autograph adventure Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 10:25:01 -0800 (PST) Toby: O.K., enough lurking! Like most of the things I subscribe to (either snailmail or electronic), I tend to let issues pile up until they overtake their containers. Consequently, my living room is overrun with a 3-4 month backlog of reading material. So...I've now had a thoroughly fab time reading Discipline 123-128 and simply refuse to let them pile up again! But I digress... Just to add a final note, my "getting-a-Fripp-autograph" adventure began with a Campbell, CA Tower Records performance around the time of the release of Exposure. Fripp had the dual tape recorder mojo working along with his patented sitting stool. It just happened that I had wedged myself into a space between the record(!) racks, which was not an easy feat for a 6', 240 lb guy.... Fortunately, I turned around and I ended up about 3 feet from Fripp as he played some 25 minutes worth of Frippertronic pieces. The gig was advertised that Fripp would "be signing" his new lp. And you could imagine, the fanboy in me was in a perpetual multiple orgasm state even before he traipsed off to sign some lps. When I finally got up to him to sign the lp, I blurted out that I thought he was a genius, and because of that, could he write something philosophical on the lp he was about to sign. He looked at me with that strange, "um,-you-can't-be-serious" look and proceeded to sign the front of Exposure. He then paused a moment, turned the record over, drew a voice balloon coming out of his mouth on the picture of him. The philosophical voice balloon scribbling? "Boo!" It was the last musician's autograph I ever got. From this point on, I am perfectly happy with saying "hello" to a musician (Fripp or otherwise) and getting a "hello" back. It's easy, quick and you don't have to lug around copies of books or lps/cds. Keep up the good work with Discipline. It is very enjoyable. William ________________________________________ send all inquiries and smirky e-mail to: bigblack at netcom dot com ________________________________________ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "ToddM" Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Mpls, MN Date: 11 Mar 1994 15:36:02CST6CDT Subject: UK Commentary "Let me comment on your comments:" Re: U.K.: _Danger Money_ (John Neumann, et. al.) There have been a few comments recently regarding U.K.'s _Danger Money_, one in particular warned against its' purchase. I must disagree. Both U.K. studio albums should be must-haves for any prog fan, though I think _Danger Money_ is the better of the two. The first U.K. starts off great with "In the Dead of Night" but the rest of the album isn't nearly as strong, IMHO. > Some portions of UK/UK sound dangerously slapped together. I like it, > but the critical musician wants to hit John Wetton for his slapdash > phrasing and poor punch in on the "Metal Medication" vocal (i.e. "Mental > Medication, SWUH Music's harmony, etc." I like it, and > especially like Holdsworth's choir of guitars at the end, but some of the > music sounds grafted together (which is pretty much confirmed by > Holdsworth's comments in "Reaching for the Uncommon Chord" and > independent comments by both Bruford, Wetton and Holdsworth. > Despite the problems, I love it. But it does come across in some ways as > one of those: "Let's dub everybody SEPARATELY to get the best control > over the situation" sessions. I'd love to see footage of Holdsworth jamming > to a click track. Ouch. _Danger Money_ seems more mature, consistent, and Jobson and Wetton more than make up for Holdsworth's absence. In fact, there is no guitar on this album at all! > I talked to a record store owner at a record show who claimed to have a > test pressing of Danger Money (hereafter referred to as "Danger Bunny") > where the tracks had both Bruford and Holdsworth on them. Supposedly > the tensions in the group came to a head, and Jobson and Wetton hastily > fired Bruford and Holdsworth (or, fired Holdsworth and Bruford followed) > and got Bozzio involved to be a "kick-ass chops drummer". When Bozzio > asked if he could help compose some pieces, he was curtly told: "NO." > After that, Holdsworth and Bruford were removed from the masters and > then Bozzio was dubbed in. Despite this, the album is quite excellent in > many respects. This is certainly a Jobson tour-de-force. > Agreed in the extreme. Wetton provides some of the best vocals of his career, and we certainly haven't heard anything this good from him since then. Bozzio is no slouch (he was incredible when I saw him live with Mark Isham). > Check out Bozzio's drumming on the live UK stuff. Wow. If the songs "The Only Thing She Needs" and "Carrying No Cross" (their best song hands down) don't illicit positive responses then you're not listening attentively. > I often thought of UK's "Danger Money" as UK's "Red". The title track had a middle > section that often seemed reminiscent to me of the middle section of "Red", and > the 13 minute plus "Carrying no Cross" always seemed to me to be UK's own little > "Starless". Sacrilege, perhaps, but structurally it was similar. I also thought of > "Carrying no Cross" as the best EL&P song that EL&P never wrote. Excellent stuff, > IMHO. Not to mention that the intro to "The Only Thing She Needs" has a great > little drum introduction. And the ballad, "Rendezvous 6:02" is one of the few prog- > tracks that my fiancee' really enjoys. Crimson Related Comments (or at least Fripp): One of the interesting rumors I'd heard was that UK was originally going to be a quartet called "The League of Gentleman". It was going to have Jobson on keyboards and violin, Wetton on bass and vocals, Bruford on drums and Fripp on guitar. At the last minute, Fripp opted to back out, but think about what might have been. Instead, Fripp started his own little league. The only evidence to substantiate that something like this may have been in the works is that "The Sahara of Snow Part II" from Bruford's "One of a Kind" has a Jobson co-writer credit. But it may have been a leftover UK tidbit, so it may just be an interesting rumor and nothing more. -Todd. LaserMaster Technical Support. toddm at ramrod dot lmt dot mn dot org [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 16:52:37 -0800 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Another "Red" I heard from a friend that there's a cover of "Red" done by Either/Orchestra on their release "The Half Life of Desire". The band was described to me as an 11 piece jazz ensemble. Anyone heard this? - malcolm [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 17:05:07 PST From: rosenblu at UCSD dot EDU Subject: DW VS. RF Hi there! Here I go again commenting things I shouldn't care about, it's gonna be short,though. I read "DW"'s note on Discipline # 128. I think his reaction is a little extreme, even though I understand his feelings. Calling RF a fraud for not appearing vissualy on the stage is kind of rude, there are many other artists that do things like that and people say that's fascinating (Cocteau Twins, for example, they used to play giving their backs to the audience), nobody called them frauds, That attitude was part of their act (was it?). I don't know why RF did that and I don't care,(maybe add even more "mistery" to his image? what for?) What saddens me, is that, once again, Mr Nice Fingers shows that he doesn't seem to care about his audience, not because of the show issue but because of the letter he sent back to DW. I insist, even though DW's letter was rude (it IS), RF could take us "mortals" more seriously, What's next, Playing in total darkness ? Apeearing and not playing ? C'mon my friends, there was only one John Cage and he was, by far, more considerate. Something else: Thanks to everybody for the information about who "talks to the wind". I can rest in peace now. Read you soon. --------------------------- Alan Rosenblum rosenblu at bend dot ucsd dot edu UCSD School of Architecture [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 17:26:55 -0800 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Fripp vs. the Grateful Dead on live recordings and boots My posting to a.m.p this week on Bootlegs rasises (again) some of the contrasts between various artists on this issue, specifically comparing the Grateful Dead vs. Fripp and pondering if one is a better approach from a marketing perspective. Though the other points are somewhat contextually referenced to the a.m.p thread I think the post might be of general interest enough for Discipline, so here's a copy: >Date: 9 Mar 94 21:29:41 GMT >Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive >Subject: Re: Bootlegs, part 2 (The saga continues...) >References: <2le5el$rod at tamsun dot tamu dot edu> <2lc6bi$4u3 at tamsun dot tamu dot edu> <2ldkla$46m at search01 dot news dot aol dot com> <2leluq$egu at news dot ysu dot edu> al919 at yfn dot ysu dot edu (Jeff Preston) writes: > Hypothetical situation: You pay $20 to attend your favorite author's > seminar. Hypothetical situation - I attend a lecture and I take notes. The notes will never quite capture the full extent of the lecture but they are there for my reference, my study and enjoyment in re-living the experience and learning from it. If I were to sell those notes it might be considered harmful to the lecturer if such information were considered proprietary, but if I use the notes for my own purpose there is no such transgression. Hypothetical situation #2 - I pay $20 -$30 to attend a concert. I take "notes" for future reference by recording tape/DAT of the show. If I keep these "notes" for my own reference and study I don't see how it harms the artist or performers if the work is not resold or distributed. I paid for the experience once and that gives me unlimited right to re-live the experience from memory. But my memory isn't perfect. Neither is my tape deck in that it will never capture the full experience. Now suppose the performer is Robert Fripp. Then knowing Fripp's opinion on bootlegs and live recordings I know that I've taped the event against his wishes and that he thinks I'm "trying to get my virginity back" by hoping to experience the show again by any means other than memory. Oh well. I don't agree. I've arrived at an ethical justification that I have a right to to re-live the experience if I can and if I don't sell the copyrighted material that I've "stolen" by augmenting my mental memory of the event. This bootleg argument is tired and is re-hashed here or in some other newsgroup a few times a year. Perhaps there should be a bootleg FAQ summing up the various re-hashed arguments. Some of the issues: An artist has a right to control creative control over what work of theirs is released. I agree on this point, though historically the legit music industry is probably as bad on this as the bootleggers are. And I can't deny the curiousity and desire I feel to hear anything by an artist that interests me whether the material is officially released or not. Case in point, Holdsworth's Velvet Darkness, which we know to be an unauthorized lp, yet it has resurfaced in legit music stores many times and it is material that is of great interest to Holdsworth fans despite knowing that Allan got ripped off on it. The artists loses potential sales/profits. I'm not sure I agree - I think the bootleggers make obscene profits they have no right to but can't agree that the artists are losing money that would go into their pockets, unless they refuse to recognize an obvious demand for live product. Case in point: Fripp finally noticing that the boots of his material are widespread and he recognized a "collector's" market he wasn't addressing. Sure, he didn't have to buckle his longstanding dislike of live releases to meet market pressures, but in this case it does seem like a valid example of an artist realizing they were missingout on potential sales if they didn't offer something to meet the demand. Fripp followed Zappa's lead an started selling the material that bootleggers were selling anyway. The examples of Fripp and Zappa choosing to market material they wouldn't have sold unless someone else was selling it would seem to be a valid argument that the artists *are* losing potential profits, but as Peter says, just because there's a demand doesn't obligate the artists to meet that demand. As Peter also points out, boots are illegal and buying them poses an ethical problem for some. But obviously not for others. Peter seems to imply that laws and ethics are closely intertwined - but some of use feel little hesitation in breaking the law by doing such "harmless" things as jaywalking or smoking marijuana. Why should I worry about violating Fripp's ethical position if it doesn't agree with mine? Perhaps some of us feel quite righteous and ethical as human beings despite being copyright violating heathen who don't hestitate to ignore the wishes of the folks whose music we respect and consume. A tough call. I like Allan Holdsworth and would like to respect his concerns, but I don't have a hard time rationalizing that with thousands of copies of Velvet Darkness in ciculation I might as well buy a copy. The ethical dilemma for me is pondering how one can see fit to put huge profits in the pockets of folks pressing bootlegs. Obviously there are middlemen taking various cuts, but considering the typical $40 CD price of a cd boot in the stores here it would seem that selling 1000 cd boots might net the folks involved a nice profict of $35,000 or so. Consider a bootleg label with many titles and you can see a very small operation could make a *shitload* of money at this. The folks who boot material that doesn't belong to them for profits are the scum I consider lacking in ethics. The end user/consumer may be accused of a lapse in ethics for buying the cds but the manufacturers are the ones that should be strung by the toes and drawn and quartered. This is why I don't buy bootlegs, and why I encourage folks to tape them and trade live/rare recordings on a not for profit basis. The legal ramifications of owning boots are pretty minimal. I have never heard of any case where a collector was busted when they weren't selling contraband recordings. So you can probably sleep easy knowing the music police won't storm your house at night if you have a few bootlegs. but if you start selling stuff for profit at swap meets, flea markets, or through mailorder you are putting yourself at risk of getting busted and you probably deserve it. I have heard of cases where folks went to jail for selling live tapes via magazine ads. One might look at the Grateful Dead's approach as compared to Fripp's. The Dead probably owe quite a bit of their massive popularity, of their yearly showing as one of the highest income touring bands, and of their huge subculture as all having been encouraged and nurtured by their encouraging folks to share their music for free. There are few actual bootlegs of Dead material pressed on lp or CD despite thousands of high quality tapes in circulation, and the deadhead culture frowns on tapes for profit deals so peer pressure has encouraged an ethical situation where someone gets blackballed for selling tapes. Meanwhile Fripp has tried hard to make his opinion on bootlegs public (while he still comes across as slightly sympathetic to the fan's point of view anyway, crediting the existence of rare Charlie Parker recordings to amateur bootleggers). And Fripp's opinion doesn't seem to be very respected by the folks who bootleg his material and by the fans that buy it. Why is this? Can one assume that King Crimson might have gained a much more massive following if the rarities in existence were traded freely for years instead of supressed? Would Crimheads be flaming each other over sale of KC material if the not-for-profit-trading approach had been encouraged? Would the huge catalog of Crimson boots exist on vinyl and cd? Despite Fripp's keen interest in marketing it appears it took a while for the economics of the bootleg industry to sink in and for Fripp to re-evaluate his stance on releasing live recordings (and perhaps thus also on his putting us down for wanting to re-live the experience?) and to jump into the "collector's" market which the bootleggers he despises have accidently created for Fripp to now exploit with his own products. It seems ironic that Fripp has chosen to get into marketing live stuff after being so outspokenly against it and boots in the past. Presumably without the bootleggers the fans probably would have never seen the official release of the material on The Great Deceiver box. - malcolm -- Malcolm Humes malcolm at wrs dot com Wind River Systems (510) 748-4100 Information Systems Analyst (510) 814-2164 fax Technical Support Department 1010 Atlantic Avenue, Alameda, CA 94501 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 22:20:35 PST From: John dot Lukes at EBay dot Sun dot COM (John Lukes) Subject: Belew's Acoustic CD?! Fellow Disciplinarians....(YIKES!) In a recent issue of Discipline, Dave Frost mentioned that Adrian Belew's new acoustic CD is worth having, but that supposedly only 1k copies were produced. Does anyone know of a source for this CD? If any of you have any ordering info for this acoustic Belew CD, would you be so kind and generous as to forward whatever information you have on to me. BTW, thanks for sharing your story and your recommendation, Dave. Thanks! -JOHN [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 12 Mar 94 02:44:08 edt From: Sheeran_F at ODG dot ceo dot dg dot com Subject: Reply to: Discipline #128 CEO comments: From: Sheeran F:ODG Date: ## 03/12/94 16:45 ## > Just a sidenote--anybody ever heard a version of a KC tune on > muzak? "Schizoid Man," or perhaps "I Talk To The Wind." You might not believe this, but I have heard 21st century S. M. and some other KC#1 cuts now and then, in Japanese department store's muzak. The original cuts. Fripp's also had (at least) two covers in Japanese guitar magazines in the last year. I keep meaning to type in a rough translation of one or the other of the interviews, but as I am thinking they might just be translations of English mags, it probably wouldn't be "new" to any of you that cared... Frank, who's kicking himself for missing every damn one of those RF+DS Tokyo shows, and the Cocteau Twins too... Preceeding Message: ***** ___e_>_E_e___a_A_____> ***** From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk:dg-smtp Date: ## 03/11/94 12:51 ## See document for message. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: hallma at cdb dot mrs dot umn dot edu (Michael A. Hall) Subject: what is a "fripp"? Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 20:05:28 -0600 (CST) I thought this was really supremely funny, without meaning to laugh at anyone in particular. It's been mentioned here before that there is a song by the band Catherine Wheel named "Fripp" which uses an ersatz frippertronics effect, and is (I thought somewhat obviously) an homage to the man. This was forwarded to me from the Catherine Wheel discussion list. I'm sorry I've lost the attribution, but maybe he doesn't want to be laughed at anyway... Someone apparently heard the song and asked what a "fripp" was. > Question #1: As to what a Fripp is, I've been under the impression that > it's not so much a _thing_ as a state of being. I think Fripp could be > a description of something, a transition, maybe, as per > "undivide your love" Fripp would maybe be the period during which this is > happening, or even the emotions one is going through, ie "too much is not > enough," maybe Fripp is that feeling... my guess. (shrug) > > OK, I've come across a couple more explainations of what exactly "Fripp" > might be, the first of which can be found in your local handy dandy > dictionary, which (I don't have it open, but this is the essence) describes > frippery as a showy, ostentatious display, usually of clothing or > accessories, hence the deliberately overdone statement, "too much is not > enough..." > > "I may not have had enough of me but I've had enough > of you!" - Robert Fripp > -I looked up Robert Fripp, who was the frontman for a band called King > Crimson (as well as several other bands, one with Brian Eno); Fripp seems to > have been a rather eccentric character who might have been the lead for the > song; I just don't know if anybody in CW listens to King Crimson or not. :) Note tenses indicating he is somehow no longer alive. Maybe killed on the road with that one band he was in with Eno... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 22:13:14 -0600 From: Damon C Capehart Subject: BRUFORD DUDE!!!!! DUDE! DUDE! I just finished watching The Commish on ABC (Saturday, 10pm EST, 9pm CST ... I'm not sure if the UK shows it at all... probably not, but they showed the preview for next week's episode, and BILL BRUFORD PLAYS THE MANIACAL BAD GUY!!!!!! AAAAAAA!!!!!!! As you can guess, I'm rather in a state of, um, hysteria. But anyway, there's this security guy who is trying to start a crime wave or something, but that's all I could remember... that and BB saying to Commissioner Scally (sp?) "Security works with police when they need assistance. I don't need assistance, Commissioner." or something like that. Once again, AAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Woo-Woo!! Bill Bruford on TV! Damon Capehart | "SALESMEN!!!" -- Rush dcapehar at utdallas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: RAMIZ at vms dot huji dot ac dot il@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 14:05 +0200 Subject: Larks' Tungues bulb In an old English dictionary of mine i found that "Aspic" is also a poetical version of "Asp". Now the Hebrew word for asp is... "Pethen", so it has to do phonetically (if not zoologically) with "Python"... Don't know if this is merely a coincidence, or if this ties up loose ends in our discussion (and/or in Muir's thread of thought).. Also, even when factoring the Monty Python sketch out, describing the album (or the title piece for that matter) as "a singing bird's tongue in a strangler snake's mouth" seems intuitively suitable to me (no less than the gestronomic interpretation). In the wake of both letters to and answers from RF in the past two digests, i can't refrain myself from saying that (upon reflection) we better let the man be. He is a genius at a one-digit mental age, and we should thank god and him that he chose Music as a channel to direct his geniosity(sp?), and not politics, for instance. Lastly, a question: are the "Walk On (Frippertronics)" short segments apparent at the Great Deceiver discs similar to the music that appears at the start of USA (before LTiA II)? Cheers, o o ^ Rami. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: gtaylor%vme dot heurikon dot com%heurikon dot UUCP at cs dot wisc dot edu (Gregory Taylor) Subject: A final note on the titling of LTiA Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 10:20:54 CST You know, it's probably an argument for the limits of idiosyncracy, but I've never been able to figure out why the *first* think that gets mentioned in the titling of "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" is the dual references to rare food and the phrase as an image of music [lark's tongues] captured in some media [suspended? surrounded?] - though I'd rather polish off an aspic than a plate of PVC any day. It's always seemed to me that that album turns on the axis implied by the dual reading of the phrase. Besides, it's a line worthy of Yeats, who probably didn't use the phonograph much...or Wallace Stevens. Regards, Gregory [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Belew Fan Club newsletter From: dweezil at orl dot mmc dot com (Dweezil) Organization: Orlando Hash House Harriers Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 13:32:58 -0500 |------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Toby, here's a transcription of The ADRIAN BELEW Fan Club newsletter, which I received in the mail yesterday. There is no copyright notice, so I assume it's okay to distribute. I don't know why I got it - maybe because I ordered the acoustic album through the mail. Typo's are mine, formatting is as in the newsletter, except for bolded words (HERE, 'dots, psychodots, Guitar Player Magazine). There's a couple time critical notices regarding appearances and/or performances (see the fourth paragraph) that may merit immediate posting to the list. Check it out. Keep up the excellent work; Discipline is the BEST e-zine I read. ------- ADRIAN BELEW "IS HERE"! Yes - finally - Adrian's new album, titled, "HERE" is almost ready to be shipped to record stores all over America! "HERE" is Adrian's first full album of new songs since 1992's "INNER REVOLUTION," and his first release on his brand new label, CAROLINE RECORDS. Watch for the disc in your favorite record shop around April 8th...and call your local radio station to request "I SEE YOU," "NEVER ENOUGH," and "BRAVE NEW WORLD." Adrian is thrilled with this new Caroline deal because not only is he signed to the label as an Artist, but Caroline will distribute Adrian's own label, "Adrian Belew Presents." The arrangement with Caroline Records is great be- cause it allows all of Adrian's music to be released through one outlet...his more "mainstream" recordings on the Caroline label ("HERE" being the first), and his more eclectic work on Adrian Belew Presents. The first ABPresents release will be an Experimental Guitar Series Adrian is doing, scheduled for the fall. In April, Adrian will be HERE, and in late Spring, Adrian will be THERE - touring to support his new album. The tour dates will be sent to the Fan Club as soon as the itinerary is set, but this much we know: The tour will run approximately from May 31st through July 20th, and it will include both Coasts and many stops in between. Adrian will be touring with his old friends, psychodots, who will double as the opening act and Adrian's band. (In other words, don't come late to this show!) Adrian and the 'dots are very excited about hitting the road together again. They played some songs together on the Cincinnati stop of Adrian's Extremely Unplugged Tour (last October), to the surprise and delight of the audience. Adrian also appeared as a Special guest during psychodots' March 5th Chicago show at Quicksilver, and will perform with psychodots at the annual South By Southwest Music Festival in Austin, Texas! South By Southwest is a Major gathering of Musicians, Music Industry People and Music Lovers. For 4 days, there are seminars, workshops, and scads of performances from signed and unsigned bands and solo acts from every part of the country. psychodots were invited to perform a 10:15 pm (CST) show at BLIND ALLEY on Saturday, March 19th. Adrian will be appearing at SXSW on the Artists & Songwriters Panel on Thursday, March 17th at 4:45 pm. Everyone agreed it would be fun to see Adrian pop onstage with the 'dots and play a few tunes with them. IF YOU ARE PLANNING TO ATTEND SXSW, you can purchase an admission wristband by calling (800)966-7469. One week before SXSW, Adrian will be performing a 20-minute acoustic set at each of two Revolucion '94 shows in San Diego and Los Angeles (March 11 & 12). Revolucion '94 features 7 artists including CAIFANES, CONCRETE BLOND, RED CROSS, MALITA and from Mexico, SANTA SABINA, whose second album on BMG Adrian is producing. The Santa Sabina project will wrap up just in time for Revolucion '94. And if that isn't enough for one newsletter, here are a few other updates: Adrian won Best Musical Score for his soundtrack to "IN THE GUTTER AND OTHER PLACES." in Canada's "Hot Docs" (Documentary Film Awards) at the end of February. Adrian also won Best Experimental Guitarist in Guitar Player Magazine's Readers' Poll for the fifth consecutive year. These five awards plus his 1982 award as Guitar Player's BEST NEW ARTIST combined to place Adrian in the magazine's "GALLERY OF GREATS." Congratulations, Mr. Belew! And there is finally some King Crimson information: Crimson will be together for writing, rehearsing, and recording in April! Of course, we'll keep you posted on that progress! Keep an eye out for "HERE" release and touring information - we'll let you know as soon as possible...because Spring will be "HERE" before you know it! The ADRIAN BELEW Fan Club 513/871-1500 ph. 513/871-1510 fax P.O. Box 8385 Cincinnati OH 45208 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- dweezil at orl dot mmc dot com -- Orlando Hash House Harriers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: EARTHBOUND%BAX dot compuserve dot com at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Date: 16 Mar 94 13:43:40 EST Subject: OPEN SEASON ON MR. FRIPP "OPEN SEASON ON MR. FRIPP" (i.e., "Open Letter II") Dear Robert Fripp, I felt compelled to write about some of the exchanges observed between yourself and a few "fans" on the Internet Discipline digest. I admit I'm curious as to the extent to which you peruse these postings. Given your superb efforts at archiving reviews in the KC box sets, you must be aware of the diversity of this gigantic, global cadre of Crimsies, its well and ill-considerd thoughts, its profound curiousity about your persona and art, its inspired accolades--and the occasional lame, rude, spurious "flame" (to use the netspeak term) aimed precisely at you. Your participation and responses make this forum exciting--even historic. Many of us are grateful to you for choosing to interact here, if not also greatly entertained and amused. Bravo Fripp! You've helped Discipline to become (for the time being) a vital bridge between performer and audience. This improves the quality of that difficult relationship, further validates this medium, and generally elevates its worth to your audience. I hope this brings some value to you as well. As for the Fripp-bashing, you've delivered excellent responses, putting both arrogance and ignorance in its proper place. Like most KC enthusiasts here, I can hardly wait to experience the music unleashed by the next incarnation of KC. I'd wager most here wouldn't attempt to influence or comment on your selection of personnel--before the fact anyway. I merely hope to hear it, support your efforts through buying it, and only have difficulty with the prospect of waiting for it to happen between these 5-10 year periods of KC inactivity. As for those that would advise you to take their spurious advice regarding your music and your artistic choices: It's idiocy to second guess an artist's circumstances and impulses in a mental and factual vacuum, as some will always do with you. Someone who chooses the difficult path of exploration and leadership within a popular art form, someone who "pushes the envelope" of rock music as you have, I'm afraid will always contend with an unwelcome plethora of suggestions, critiques, and comments. It must remind you of a swarm of gnats that won't stop swirling about your head when you walk through the woods on the wrong summer day. All of this is not to say I'm a blind Crimsie, following a nervous, black- suited messiah, eyes squinting to discern every detail, each fingering gracing that wooden neck, every masked movement in that mysteriously dark corner of the stage... I can think of a few tracks you've penned that have shrivelled my ears, or worse left them indifferent. However, I would argue an audience privy to an artist's personal insight pertaining to their creative process--or the discussion of circumstances surrounding your realization of a certain piece of music--can greatly enhance the impact and appreciation of music upon its audience. Every incarnation, every recording, made by KC has enriched contemporary music, and influenced many musicians positively, Being exposed to your experimentations beyond KC has been an extremely positive influence in my attempts to find and make music. Without exception, every KC album, for this critic has included several tracks (more often all of them) that captivates my interest and imagination on a profound level--moreso than any fare your average rock consumer is spoon fed by the radio and the recording industry. I have near-fanatic faith in a new manifestation of KC (although I wouldn't consider myself at all a Crimson fundamentalist)--regardless of who is involved--it will dazzle those of us receptive to past recordings --and more innocent ears lucky enough to be assaulted and caressed unaware. The music you've endeavored elicits strong opions, and it remains fascinating to in this media to witness how a (mostly) thinking audience reacts to your art. No doubt some music writers and critics will rant and sputter that you should have hung it up when Greg Lake left, while others will swear that Trey Gunn (if indeed he's in the new KC) is the Second Coming. It's all in a day's work, Bob. You've a perfect right to ignore the punters and not explain to them about your splitting headache, or that you're simply in a foul mood. As a writer like yourself--apparently afflicted with a need to piss out lengthy streams of words (by today's standards), however--and in reading your response that sleeping recalcitrant (a concise, courteous, and masterful dismissal), an abbrieviated response came to mind: *The King is Dead, Long Live The King!* Sincerely, Muhatmah Jones CEO, Allied Crimsonologists Inc. 40.87 D&M Pyramid Hwy, Tholus, Cydonia -- MARS 998597.5G ******************************************************************** >From this time on (per decision) we will each eat singly and shit together, thus neolithically fostering insight... --Gunter Grass ******************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 23:10:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Patrick R. Leyden" Subject: Adrian on Modern Rock Live This past tuesday, Adrian Belew was featured on the modern rock interview show "Modern Rock Live." He spoke and played for an hour and here are some of the highlights... -In april, King Crimson will be getting together to writing and rehersals. -When asked, Adrian would not confirm the entire line up of the new Crimson, except for himself, Tony Levin and Robert (WHAT A SHOCK!). He also said it would probably be a six piece. -Adrian is on a new record label for his solo material, Caroline Records. Caroline will also distribute stuff from Adrian's own new label "Adrian Belew Presents." This label will feature more experimental/modern music. -Adrian's new solo record "Here" will be in stores on April 15th, with a tour to follor in June and July. -And, most importantly, I GOT THROUGH on the call in and asked Adrian a question. I asked why he doesn't do more videos and he said that it takes a lot of money to do and he would rather spend that money on equipment and that he doesn't know much about filmmaking so he has to depend alot on others. But, he also said that there will probably be a video for something from "Here." -cuyahoga at astro dot ocis dot temple dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 05:34:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Scott T. Lillis" Subject: Live Crimson Hi All, I was wondering if anyone would like to trade live crimson tapes. I have one called 'The Mince'(double CD)+other odds and ends and would be willing to trade via mail. Email me for more details and track listings. Scott PS. This is the best list on the net, keep up the good work Toby. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: KEN dot STUART at tigerteam dot org (KEN STUART) Subject: Mobile Fidelity Tarkus Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 06:05:00 GMT Organization: Tiger Team Information Network (510) 268-0102 Hello, I am assuming, given previous posts here, that ELP is an acceptable discussion topic, given that Lake was a founder of King Crimson. There are 3 versions (sonically - the "notes" are all the same - no bonus tracks) on CD of Emerson, Lake and Palmer's second album "Tarkus". I just received the third, which was just released, so here is a comparison: First I should say that mediocre CDs usually don't sound so bad until you compare them with something of better quality (ie a better CD or the original LP). The original CD was the Atlantic version (ie from WEA). This version is profoundly mediocre. When listening to this CD, I actually start to wonder why it is that I like this music --- this is because very little of the important aspects of the performance come through while listening to this CD. The Hammond organ, for example, does not have that screaming quality that is needed in places to communicate the feel of the music. The piano sounds like it has a couple of blankets over it. To add insult to injury, the interesting inside cover art of the original is copied in black and white! Throw this CD out the window, because you can buy... The remastered CD from "Victory" Records (distributed by Polygram) is also available at Bargain prices, and is a distinct improvement. This CD does convey the feeling of the performance, and sonically "many veils are removed" (or should I say blankets :-) ). All the instruments now have their own intrinsic character, although, despite the improvements, one can tell that there is still some veiling, it still sounds like there is one thin blanket left on the piano :-). Finally, there is now the Mobile Fidelity Ultradisc CD. A few months ago, Mobile Fidelity started using a new Analog-to-Digital converter designed by Mike Moffat. Basically, this converter uses military-level specs for each part and process, to assure that the digital conversion produced full 16-bit resolution. According to Moffat, no previous converter has full resolution simply because no one wanted to make the investment in the necessary precision! Evidently this converter costs $40,000 and the other record companies were not willing to invest that much in sound quality! The reviews of the Ultradiscs made using the converter (which MF calls the "Gain system") claim that these are the first CDs that sound as good or better than the original LP versions. After listening myself, I would agree, but in any event, I can say that it is definitely better yet than the Victory remastered CD. All of the instruments sound natural and the recording sounds like there is no added veiling between you and the recording. The synthesizers have more of that unique zippy sound, which is somewhat muted on the Victory release and almost absent on the Atlantic release. Also, the precise localization of images in the soundstage is better in the Ultradisc. There is a point about 19 minutes into the first track, where a drum corp parades across from right to left. In the Ultradisc, you can clearly localize the progress of the drums, whereas in the Victory, it is less clear exactly where they are. The Ultradisc Tarkus CD, like all Ultradisc CDs, runs between $22 and $30, depending on the degree of discounting. The other two versions run between $9 and $13, again depending on degree of discount. If you are a big ELP fan and only play CDs, then go for the Ultradisc. Or, if you like ELP and you are an audiophile, then get the Ultradisc. However, if the significant price difference is a factor, then get the Victory records release - it does convey all the feeling of the performance. Avoid the Atlantic CD - even at cheap used prices. Note, by the way, that only Ultradiscs with catalog numbers of 592 or greater use the Gain System, except for 461 Ocean Boulevard, which does NOT use the Gain System. More info and/or a catalog can be had by calling MF at 1-800-423-5759 or e-mail to mofi at mofi dot com. My experience is that a knowledgable and pleasant person will answer (unusual in 1994!). If you are interested in further comparison of the Ultradisc Tarkus CD to the various LP versions (including MF's new Tarkus LP), send me e-mail at ken dot stuart at tigerteam dot org . Ken --- * UniQWK v2.0 * The Solution for Multilingual Messages / Tiger Team Buddhist Information Network / / Modem: (510) 268-0102 info at tigerteam dot org / [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 18:22:35 -0800 From: arnold at lumina dot com (Brian Arnold) Subject: New Tibbetts I hope people don't get too uptight about Fripp autographs and his relative unapproachable-ness, frankly I'd be thrilled to get his trademark "Boo" scribbled on a Crimson CD and I'd love to chat with him about the downfall of society as we know it. But let's all move beyond this cheap idolatry, after all, Fripp isn't God, Steve Tibbetts is! Speaking of whom... After hearing on Discipline that Steve Tibbetts has put out something new, I promptly hunted it down and brought it home. It's bitchin' and totally recommendable, titled "The Fall of Us All" on ECM, distributed by BMG Classics. If anyone hasn't heard guitarist Steve Tibbetts with his percussionist Marc Anderson, they are a duo who have been playing together with various guests under the moniker Steve Tibbetts since the late '70's. Their music can't be easily categorized, but is usually located in the Jazz section in music stores. They combine eastern and third world sounds with punk, and what little jazz influence they exhibited on Steve's first releases is all but gone. Steve's distorted acoustic and electric guitar and tape looping effects are combined to create very original and stark soundscapes (forgive me for borrowing the word) and scathing guitar rampages. Marc Anderson's thunderous and diverse percussion work, assisted usually by tablas, are out of this world. They are amazing to watch live. The latest is a return to the "Exploded View" sound, extrapolated by the work heard live and in Marc Anderson's solo "Time Fish". Here is a directory of works that I am aware of that both Steve and Marc play on together (with asterisks indicating my opinion of them, opinions will vary): Steve Tibbetts (no title) late '70's *** (I've got a third-hand tape, not on CD, short, similar to YR) Steve Tibbetts YR (1980) ECM ***** Jazz-influenced "debut" CD, first track blows me away, a Mellotron is played on this CD (a tie-in, aha!) Steve Tibbetts Northern Song (1982) ECM **** Very sparse acoustic, depressing Steve Tibbetts Safe Journey (1985) ECM **** Heavier guitar work with distortion and more tape loops Steve Tibbetts Exploded View (1988) ECM ***** Thundering guitar, excellent voice work, very anarchistic Steve Tibbetts Big Map Idea (1991) ECM ** Music a bit constrained on this, I only like three tracks, including a cover of a Jimmy Page Zep tune. Marc Anderson Time Fish (1993) (forgot the label, indie) *** This has Steve Tibbetts on it, emphasizes percussion and third world music, sort of an Exploded View Lite (suprisingly, Tower Records @ Mountain View CA USA has copies of "Time Fish" in the Rock section) Steve Tibbetts The Fall of Us All (1994) ECM ***** A return to the Exploded View sound, extrapolating on "Time Fish", no tape loops, a real keyboard synthesizer this time, voices Marc Anderson played on the recent David Sylvian/Robert Fripp "The First Day" CD, although you can barely tell. Grr. Anyway, you can tell I am a Tibbetts/Anderson fan. Buy their latest, and see them live! Brian Arnold arnold at lumina dot com Director of Software Development Lumina Decision Systems, Inc. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: KEN dot STUART at tigerteam dot org (KEN STUART) Subject: Holdsworth Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 06:08:00 GMT Organization: Tiger Team Information Network (510) 268-0102 Hello, Okay, I keep hearing about Holdsworth this and Holdsworth that. However, I don't remember hearing anything of him that has impressed me at all. I have access to all the UK albums, all the Bruford albums, and Lifetime - Believe It. So, what cut or cuts on those albums should I listen to, to convert me to a Holdsworth follower? Or is some other work of his significantly better? Cheers, Ken --- * UniQWK v2.0 * The Solution for Multilingual Messages / Tiger Team Buddhist Information Network / / Modem: (510) 268-0102 info at tigerteam dot org / [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 18:08:48 GMT From: allenh at tais dot com (Allen J. Huotari) Subject: Robert Wyatt DISCIPLINE readers interested in the music of Robert Wyatt should keep an eye out for the imminent publication of "WRONG MOVEMENTS" by Mike King which is the definitive Robert Wyatt biography. It is being published by SAF and should be available in the UK on or about March 24. It is written with the permission and cooperation of Mr. Wyatt and features numerous rare photos and many unimpeachable reflections by RW and cohorts over the past 30 odd years. (Mike King is a friend of mine who lives in Toronto, Canada and is quite a nice chap. I have seen the original manuscript just before it was sent to the publisher approx. 6 months ago. Judging by his final draft, the book will be a killer!) ajh [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.