Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #124 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 124, Monday, 7 February 1994 Today's Topics: Sylvian Live 1993 the complete KC line of hair products! fripp vs. frank belew's blckbird Re: Sartori (was Re: Satori) new crimson box set Gee, he snubbed me, too Eg insights Re: Discipline #123 awful review (passed on from the Sylvian list) Auto-SERMON-graphs Formal Introduction KC Fanzine Re: Thoughts miscellaneous ramblings on Discipline #123 Re:The ever elusive Fripp autograph. Article Tamm's books covers (Re: Eno-L Digest H-081) Fripp's Personality anagrams in Lark's Tongues In Aspic New release info - great! When in doubt... Sleepless drumming In reply to his reply [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 23:36:53 +0800 From: proutled at cs dot strath dot ac dot uk Subject: Sylvian Live 1993 On December 2nd 1993 Sylvian/Fripp performed live at Glasgow's Royal Concert Hall. I was going to post a review but the review that appeared next morning in the Herald summed up most of what I thought so I'm reproducing that here. It really was a case of - middle aged musos all with their heads down, all playing different tunes, all trying to play louder than each other to appease their egos and hold on to what little is left of their rock 'n' roll youth. Dave's carefully crafted subtle and beautiful compositions have no chance in the face of this sonic brutality. Paul Routledge Glasgow ========================================================================= Mix 'n Match John Williamson The Herald, Glasgow 3 December 1993 Sylvian/Fripp come packaged with high gloss merchandise and a tasteful backdrop contaonong an "SF" logo that would meet with approval in any corporate boardroom. None of this can hide some of the musical atrocities that make up the bulk of the show, which is a mix and match of conflicting styles, contrasting backgrounds, and ill fitting and discordant arrangements. The two sit opposite each other for much of the set, side on to the audience - Sylvian at his keyboard Fripp seated amid a mountain of guitar effects and monitors. Sylvian was a stylish front man with a monotoned but rich voice, capable of writing evocative and at times beautiful lyrics. Fripp was an arch hippy, an ecentric English guitar virtuoso whose dabblings were loaved by musicians and loathed by music lovers. These facts hold true today: it's a match made in hell that no amount of artistic reasoning can justify. Fripp dominates, swamping Sylvian with his sheer lack of restraint, serving up a bizarre concoction of funk, metal and ambient passages. There are a few occasions when Sylvian triumphs over the histrionics of his colleagues, and these provide the scattered highlights. The Damage Is Done and the encore of The First Day see Fripp and stick player Trey Gunn add textures to the beauty of Sylvian's voice and piano, rather than detracting from it as they do elsewhere. Towards the end, an art terrorist dressed in a Postcard Records T shirt yells: "Give us something with a tune.". It turns out to be an unfulfilled request as Fripp triumphs over Sylvian, leaving a sparseley populated hall divided between rapturous Fripp fans and disenchanted Sylvian supporters. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:36:05 -0800 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: awful review (passed on from the Sylvian list) Do you suppose [the above] Review Will Be Reprinted In An Upcoming FrippBooklet? I'll be looking for it. Arch hippy? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 14:23:35 CST From: oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com Subject: the complete KC line of hair products! Paollo writes: ...to create that wonderful music and related questions but I wouldn't be hurt at all if that person didn't become my friend and I wouldn't want any access to personal information like what brand of hairstyling products does he/she use or does he/she eat Kellog's Frosted Flakes in the dark, etc. David responds: Funny you should mention it, but I recall that RF credits his hairstylist on one album, I think it was League of Gentlemen. What next? King Crimson action figures? How about the King Crimson Saturday morning cartoon? I can't wait! david [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: matrick at merle dot acns dot nwu dot edu Subject: fripp vs. frank Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 17:22:03 CST Being a mild Zappa-phile, I thought I'd offer some insight into the Fripp vs. Frank issue........ After listening to all ten KC studio LPs intensely, I find only one thread common in all the recordings- the apparent direction Robert wished the band to be going. It seems as though Robert incorporates the philosophy of Mssrs. Page and Hendrix in planning every note of a song (including planned noises and effects and distortion). And I've heard many times that Robert was a very demanding bandleader, one who kept a very narrow scope of the way things _must_ be, with little margin for change. I know the Wetton-period KC lps have many improved pieces on them, but my real question is.....how much of those improvs were improvised and not pre- planned? The very fact that Fripp would allow any improvs on his LPs confuses me, especially since he's such a perfectionist when it comes to things like form. Why would Robert just let his musicians "run amok" with their instruments when in so many instances he is so perfectionist (almost to the suffocating Steely Dan level). Anyway, the (seemingly) constraining attitudes of Robert towards music directly contrasts Zappa's ideas about song structure. Zappa will almost do anything that _sounds_ okay, and a lot of his albums represent just trying anything. In the Uncle Meat sessions, for example, it was well known that not many of the musicians could even read music, they had to be showed how to play the pieces by the seesion musicians. Man the Mothers of Invention _could not_ play their instruments either! You think Fripp would've put up with that? Fripp is so short tempered he probably w would've literally thrown the musicians out of the studio (a rather funny imaginative sight, mind you). Frank seems like he just laughs at everything and whatever comes out on record (at least with the mothers in their early days) is okay with him. Of course, Frank also has his serious side. Hot Rats, for example is an incredibly serious jazz album with amazing musicianship. It was a direct slap in the face of all the critics who laughed at the MOthers for their ridiculous first four LPs (don't get me wrong, I like some of those albums, I just think their ridiculous.....). However, let me say that Fripp and Frank have one very important similarity in their styles.....they elude classification. Think about this for a minute......How could you possibly describe either guitarist to someone who had never heard either one before? You'd just have to hand them a pile of records and say "listen to these and call me in a week......." Just some random thoughts......... :) Matrick [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 16:17:42 -0800 From: David A. Craig Subject: belew's blckbird fans of adrian belew might be interested in something i heard on npr today. it was a beatles "guitar tribute" album called "come together" (cute, that) containing, among other things (some wretched, some not :) ) a cover of blackbird by belew. short, but very true to the spirit of the song. instrumental, no vocals. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 18:25:30 -0600 From: press at lip dot wustl dot edu (Bill Press) Subject: Re: Sartori (was Re: Satori) In Discipline #123, Mike Porter writes: > In Discipline #122, Ray Ashley writes >> Also, does anyone know what the word "Sartori" means? > It is a Zen term which describes the awakening which one undergoes when > one has achieved enlightenment. It is loosely synonymous with "Nirvana". Importantly (I made this mistake before), the title of the song is "Sartori in Tangiers". Now, while satori may be mean a sudden Zen enlightenment (sato- means "to awaken"), that which is sartorial refers to tailors and things tailor made. The meaning of this pun, though, is left as an exercise for the reader, Bill [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 16:56:53 -0800 From: David A. Craig Subject: new crimson box set aaaaaaaack! it just dawned on me that that delightful list of releases to expect from fripp/etc. did NOT conatain the promised box set of 80's crimson (unless the USA mark II was it ... ???). can this be? please say it isn't so! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 16:33:50 -0600 From: crawford at nesteggs dot com (Michael E. Crawford) Subject: Gee, he snubbed me, too Here's my own tale of inappropriate woe, as originally relayed in StickFigures, the Chapman Stick mailing list. As I look back on it 18 years later, Fripp's response was perfect -- minimal effort for desired effect. Weed it & reap. Michael Oh, & did I mention that a few years later during his one-man Frippertronics tour circa 1979, he also refused to put his p.p.k.c. signature on the inside of the Starless & Bible Black lp I'd purchased specifically for that purpose, and instead signed on the back? Waaaanh! I was so injured by his acts of will! ;-] Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 13:18:54 CST From: crawford at nesteggs dot com (To: stick%moliere at uunet dot uu dot net) To: stick%moliere at uunet dot uu dot net Subscriptions, back issues, FAQ's, etc.:stick-request%moliere at uunet dot uu dot net Subject: The first time ever I saw his shtick... IN StickFigures #96, Chuck Ivy Wrote: >Related note: does anyone know when Levin first started using >Stick on Solsbury Hill? He played the part on bass when the >first album was released,because he didn't play Stick yet. >As far as I know, it's the only Gabriel song he originally >played on bass and then moved to Stick. >.... Way back in nineteen & seventy-something, peter gabriel toured to promote his first album after leaving Genesis. I saw the show in Dallas. Larry Fast had a bank of synthesizers next to the now forgotten drummer, Robert Fripp sat just offstage on a folding chair facing the band, & was introduced as "Dusty Roads" (Which caused me interminable confusion on subsequent gabriel albums as I continued to suspect that David Rhodes was another moniker for a camouflaged-by-power-chording Fripp). Some bald guy holding a stringed chunk of wood made bass sounds, & I was floored. Yes, he played his stick for the entire concert, which consisted solely of the songs on the first album (Solsbury Hill among them) and an encore, a raucous version of "Back in NYC" from The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. After the concert, I asked a roadie what the hell was that thing that guy was playing anyway, although I might have employed somewhat more erudite English. He replied, "That's a Chapman Stick", those words burning an impression in my corpus callosum, where they remain to this day. To complete the story, I then snuck into the bowels of Dallas County Convention Center Theatre, hoping for an encounter with any of the above musicians. Down more stairs to a brightly lit, long , long white hallway with dozens of evenly spaced doors on both sides. I walked and walked, and suddenly heard the latch turn on a door I'd just passed. I wheeled around and found myself face to face with Robert Fripp. Starstruck & imbecilic, I could think of nothing more pertinent or incisive to ask than a pot-reeking and incredulous,"Robert Friiipp??!??" He replied simply, "No." And then turned away to walk down the hall, leaving me agape and frozen, though happily so, in cognitive dissonance. Michael Crawford nesteggs Houston [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 02:34:20 EST Subject: Eg insights Fripp doubts that a "fanzine" has never had a detailed insight into the life of a working musician quite like this berfore.... Does he really think we're all braindead slobbering fan types? Are any of us braindead slobbering fan types? Some of us are working musicians ourselves, Robert. Terry PS-this doesn't mean I don't want to read all about it. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jason dot Grossman%ucs dot cam dot ac dot uk at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Date: 29 Jan 1994 11:48:37 +0000 Subject: Re: Discipline #123 >From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) > >2. Does Bill Bruford have any friends? He seems to quibble, perhaps >justifiably, with nearly everyone. Yes, Bill Bruford has lots of friends. Some of them aren't musicians! Others are - I know he's still friendly with John Clarke, for example, and Tony Levin. Is this interesting? Jason Grossman Cambridge [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 21:03:13 PST From: John dot Lukes at EBay dot Sun dot COM (John Lukes) Subject: Auto-SERMON-graphs Regarding the person who is turned off to Fripp because he didn't sign autographs: in my opinion, the only valid reason to turn off to a musician -- BTW, did Fripp ever claim to be divine; maybe I've missed something -- is the reaction you have to their MUSIC. Maybe our disappointed fan was the victim of FE (Failed Expectations). If we build up a future event in our mind and then it doesn't come to pass as we fantasized, there can be a great sense that we've been victimized. But he wasn't a victim or cheated out of anything if he got to see Fripp and hear his music for the price of his ticket. The musical performance is the only thing the ticket buys. Remember, it's got to be all about the *music* or it doesn't make much sense -- at least not to me. It has nothing to do with whether these are even NICE people -- and whether they are willing to sign autographs (or talk to you, or let you ride in their limo, or give you a hug....etc., etc.)! Hey, as Bob Welch sang, while still in Fleetwood Mac back in the early 70s, "Look where the roses grow." In other words, some of the most beautiful or truly awesome works of art, or advances in knowledge or in science, have come from some of the thorniest, oddest, tormented, even mean-spirited human beings to have emerged from a womb. To say it another way, one does not have to be a perfect being to create virtually perfect works. Hey, I'm old enough to have noticed that far too many of us humans seem to expect far too much of our cultural heros. I mean, once somebody is famous for just about anything, they no longer are treated as real people and their privacy is all but taken away from them. Recently, for example, Princess Di (and the rest of us) got to see her (courtesy of hidden cameras) working out in a fitness gym! Heck, why didn't he just put one in the lady's bathroom?! Talk about crude and tasteless invasions of privacy! When I saw Steve Hackett on tour recently, and after he had given us not one, but TWO extended encore sets, some jerks (sorry, but some people have no consideration) boo'ed him when he FINALLY said goodnight and didn't come back! I mean what sense does that make?! I was ashamed to be in that audience just then. I just hoped that our cheers drowned them out. Consider it: one minute these people were clapping and stomping and yelling and whistling your ears out, and when the artist says, "Hey, that's it! Thanks for coming!" they all-of-a-sudden hated his guts! Doesn't make sense! Hey, don't be such selfish fanatics -- these guys are not jukeboxs! Okay, sermon's over. Just some food for thought. No offense to anyone, since I have no idea who any of you are. -JOHN ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + "I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and + + tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in + + this country with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not. And + + I'm sick and tired of being told that I am." (Monty Python) + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 13:15:38 -0500 (cdt) From: Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man (John P Mohan) Subject: Formal Introduction Hello, I am probably the newest member to Discipline. I am John Paul Mohan, from Grinnell, Iowa, home of Grinnell College. I am only 17 so I have no stories to share about KC concerts in 74 or any KC concert, for that matter. I got into KC about two years ago, and have since bought 5 or 6 of their albums, my favorite probably being Lark's Tongues In Aspic. I am in a band which is starting to remind me of King Crimson (we are a quartet which has been moving closer and closer to all-instrumental, progressive improv pieces). We have also been known to cover Lark's II in concert. I am a drummer, and Bill Bruford is one of my top influences (next to Phil Collins). Now that I have introduced myself, I will probably keep quiet for a while, since I am not as well educated or Disciplined as the rest of you. JP [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 12:08:39 GMT From: "Steve Moore" Subject: KC Fanzine Morning all... Apologies if this is already common knowledge, but there is now a Crimso fanzine available. It's nothing to do with me, but I've seen the last couple of issues. It's not a slick, glossy production, but there's plenty of interesting stuff in it. Book Of Saturday 2 Greenhills Leeds LS19 6NP ENGLAND (0532) 506443 Issue 4 is now available, and the rates are as follows... 1 issue 1 Year UK 2.50 9.00 Sterling US 6.00 22.00 US $ D 10.00 36.00 DM J 600.00 2200.00 Y I 10000.00 36000.00 L ---------------------------------[Steve Moore]--------------------------------- Oramail : smoore.uk | Internet : smoore at uk dot oracle dot com | 'Questions are a burden to others skmoore at cix dot compulink dot co dot uk | Answers, a prison for oneself' Phone : (0344) 383722 | --------------------------------------o0o--------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 10:22:13 -0600 From: uchima at fncrd8 dot fnal dot gov (Mike Uchima) Subject: Re: Thoughts > From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) > Subject: Thoughts > > [...] > > 2. Does Bill Bruford have any friends? He seems to quibble, perhaps > justifiably, with nearly everyone. > > [...] I could be wrong, but it seems to me he got along just fine with Allan Holdsworth. They were actually trying to get back together to do another album last year, but the project got nuked by the politics of the music industry... -- Mike Uchima -- uchima at fnal dot fnal dot gov [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 12:47:36 EST From: David=Lane%HQ%Rational at Vines1 dot ratsys dot com Subject: miscellaneous ramblings on Discipline #123 >Subject: Contributions from RF/forthcoming release news >I've had a letter from Robert Fripp. [...] >He also sent details of records planned for release in 1994. Here they are: [...list deleted...] Sounds good, but whatever happened to the two additional box sets that were planned to follow shortly after "The Great Deceiver"? That one came out in November of 1992. I'd love to see the release of more live material from '69 to '73. phil at sonosam dot wisdom dot bubble dot org (Phil Verdieck (x246)) writes: > [...] >If you really want to get into Crimson you must purchase the Young Person's >Guide to King Crimson double LP. Get a used copy. Not the CD. Throw out >the records. All you want is the booklet that comes with it. It is a >compilation of news articles, reviews etc on Crimson over a substantial >time period. This is a must find. I don't know if it was reproduced in >legible form for the CD. Anyways, it will be easier to read the LP >booklet. Is there anything essential in that booklet that isn't covered by the Frame and Deceiver books? (And they certainly weren't hard to read; but they were a bitch to get into the jewel box.) tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) writes: >2. Does Bill Bruford have any friends? He seems to quibble, perhaps >justifiably, with nearly everyone. How so? In all of the interviews that I've seen/heard/read, he's always come across as a nice guy. I can see how you might think that he's hard to get along with if you just looked at all the bands that he's joined/quit formed/disbanded over his career, but that doesn't mean he can't have any friends. If he's so difficult, how was he able to get back together with Yes after so many years? As for the Zappa / Fripp conversation that's been going on lately, I can't hear the KC influence in "Republicans", but check out "Elephant Song" on Cheerful Insanity, then listen to "I'm The Slime" and "Cozmik Debris" on Overnite Sensation. Has anybody noticed a similarity between the second movement of "Suite No. 1" on Cheerful Insanity and the orchestral piece on Islands? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:49:09 -0800 (PST) From: Preston Cartagena Subject: Re:The ever elusive Fripp autograph. I am a very new member to this newgroup so excuse me if this subject is old. When I bought Tony Levin's Road Photos book the last time I saw King Crimson back in '84 I had no Idea how useful it would be. I met Bill Bruford at a drum clinic in LA ('86) and he was very pleasant when he signed both my Lark's album and the book. At the Bear's first gig in LA I held up the book to Adrian during the encore and he invited me backstage to have it signed! He not only signed it but was totaly nice about it and even complemented me on my Three of a Perfect Pair shirt that I was wearing at the time. A year later I met Adrian again and he again signed the book (he dated it both times) and a Discipline album. In '88 I saw the League of Crafty Guitarists and hoped to get the book signed by Fripp. I thought that he might be willing since the other guys had signed it. Well, I was wrong. He refused. Needless to say the first thought that came into my mind was "what an asshole". Anyway, I still love the music. He's still my favorite "technical" guitar artist (I'm partial to Hackett's "emotional" playing - don't flame me for that). And I now know better than to ask Fripp for another autograph. Does anyone know how Tony Levin is about autographs? Slainte Mhath Preston Cartagena [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ottari at ismennt dot is (Ottar Isberg) Subject: Article Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 10:26:51 GMT Subject: Fripp on Icelandic TV Show It is not often that we here Fripp on Radio or TV here in Iceland but that just happened last week. The Frippertronics part from Fripps/Sylvian first album (now the name is stolen) were used as an background for a program which is shown regularly every night. Anyway what is interstning for american readers is that they were interviewing the american actor Fischer Stevens who stars in a Icelandic/Japanesse movie. As Fripp perhaps reads this I kindly ask him to perform his first concert in Iceland in the near future. You have never been here ok bye [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Tamm's books covers (Re: Eno-L Digest H-081) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 09:58:05 +0100 From: Eric Rutten > >From dac at sbphy dot physics dot ucsb dot edu Thu Jan 27 18:45:20 1994 > Subject: worse cover > --------/\--------- > > have i ever seen an uglier cover than that on tamm's eno book? you bet; the > cpver on tamm's fripp book. yikes. > > (you were joking when you called that "simple and tasteful", right? BUTT UG > *LY > might be more appropriate. or do ours have the same cover with the red guit > *ar,? > > of course, you can't blame tamm for that. not in his power, i'm sure. > There are two covers to Tamm's book on Fripp; the one I have shows (part of) an acoustic guitar, color photograph on a white background, and it is quite tastefull. The other one has a cheaply designed picture with bright colors (blue and red mostly, I think), which might be considered less tastefull ... Eric ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eric Rutten | room: 221 IRISA / INRIA | phone: +33 99 84 72 33 Campus de Beaulieu | fax: +33 99 38 38 32 F-35042 RENNES CEDEX - FRANCE | e-mail: rutten at irisa dot fr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Mike Taylor Subject: Fripp's Personality Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 6:22:19 CST X-posted from 60S_70S_PROGROCK (Fidonet) Original from: To: Mike Taylor From: Bruce Selzler Subject: Disc123 3/6 Created: Thu 31 Feb 94 at 11:44 Lenny Bruce declares a truce....... MT> "Fripp is an asshole" MT> MT> To which Fripp responded in a later issue that he thought back over MT> the years, and concluded, yes Fripp is indeed an asshole. He said it, MT> not me ;-) As much as I admire Fripp for his work and for inspiring me MT> to be more "disciplined" in my own musical practice and to seek MT> musical inspiration from musics around our planet and beyond and even MT> non musical sources, he is definitely not "God" to me. I admire Fripp MT> for his work and not for his personality of which I know very little MT> beyond various writings by Fripp himself and others about him ( like MT> in this mailing list ;-)). I've stayed out of this one until now because I can't remember exact dates. I saw King Crimson for the first time when I was in high school. It must have been either in '72 or '73 in Long Beach Ca. (If I wasn't so lazy I'd go look it up in young Persons Guide) Anyway, it was the Fripp, Wetton, Bruford, Jobson lineup. And it was AMAZING. They were playing material from Larks Tounges in Aspic and Starless and Bible Black. I remember when USA first came out my friends and I felt that was recorded on the tour we saw. To the point. After the show about five of us hung around behind the sports arena where it looked like all the limo's and trucks were. Something we did on a regular basis at concerts. Eventually the whole band came out. Fripp was very gracious and spent quite a bit of time talking to us and answering questions. When asked where he got his ideas for songs he gave a LENGTHY answer on how he "talks to the wind" etc. We were all amazed at how friendly Fripp was and couldn't believe how long he stood there and chatted with us. Bruford on the other hand walked right passed us. But to be fair after getting in the limo he rolled down the window and chatted with us as well. All in all they were both very personable and I remember the evening with great fondness. Not only for the superior performance they gave on the stage but for the time Fripp and Bruford spent answering what were probably very dumb questions from a bunch of high school "punks". I'd have to disagree with the "asshole" characature. --- MacWoof 1.5.3 * Origin: Impaled on Nails of Ice (1:207/233.1) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 21:04:31 -0500 (cdt) From: Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man (John P Mohan) Subject: anagrams in Lark's Tongues In Aspic I had never considered that the name might be an anagram. I just took it for its direct meaning, that is, "bird's tongues in gelatin" (aspic is a gelatinous substance, and the lark is a bird known for its melodious song). I thought the fact that the lark's song is melodious was imperative, as it describes KC's music: they do to melody and conventional music what one would do to a lark by cutting its tongue off and putting it in gelatin. Perhaps this all sounds a bit too simple and childish. If there is an anagram, we should all try and decipher it and have a contest to see who gets it first. That was a joke. Perhaps Mr. Fripp himself could offer some insight when and if he sends his next letter (he'll probably read this and laugh at my ignorance-- but then again, maybe he won't 'cause he's a nice guy). Anyway, it's interesting to think about. Hmm... Larry's Auto Repair Kelvin Scale Takes Old Needy Guys Under Eternal Solace In Nominal Amounts, Supplying Prodigious, Immediate Care. You never know. JP [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "David Hodson" Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 12:43:05 -0500 Subject: New release info - great! >From Discipline #123: > 2. Major releases: > > The Essential Fripp & Eno: includes 20 minutes of unreleased music > from New York in 1979. What, only one new track? :-) Seriously, it's great to get this info (although we all know what happens to the best-laid plans). Best start saving now. (And I wonder what will make it into the USA re-release?) Notably absent from the list were the equivalents to "The Great Deceiver" set from the later and earlier Crimsons. Hope these are still going ahead; I've almost stopped listening to Lark's/Starless/Red since getting TGD. Although I agree with RF that the spirit of music is best experienced live, sometimes it just isn't possible (what was the last time Crimson toured Australia? I thought so). Recordings may be second best, but until I can ask Fripp or Eno or Zappa (alas, no more) or ... a whole bunch of others ... to drop 'round whenever I want to hear some music, they will have to do. -- David Hodson -- davidh at kodak dot com -- "this night wounds time" -- (Not an official spokesman for Eastman Kodak or Kodak Australasia) -- ************** Frank Zappa, 21 Dec 1940 - 4 Dec 1993 ************** ********** So long Frank, thanks for all the great music ********** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 6 Feb 94 19:36:55 -0600 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: When in doubt... Just a note of thanks to those who supplied information about obtaining Bruford's book, "When In Doubt, Roll!". As suggested, I called Steve Weiss Music in Philadelphia. My order was cheerfully and promptly filled -- I was surprised at how quickly I found a box at my doorstep. I was also happy to find that they sold the book (and all of their books) at below the list price. Looking through their catalog, I'd have to say that there is very little in the area of drums and percussion that they DON'T have. For those who missed it, you can call this store at (215) 329-1637. (10a-6p EST) The usual "not affiliated in any way, just a satisfied customer" disclaimer applies. The book itself (which was about $15 incl. shipping) is very good. It contains transcriptions of many of the pieces that Bruford drummed on, with emphasis on his solo material. From memory, the KC charts are Fracture, Frame by Frame, Industry, and Discipline. The other charts are from: Yes, UK, Bruford (solo), and Bruford/Moraz. Along with each transcription is commentary by Bill about the song, the group, and any drumming philosophy that relates. Following along with the recordings is very interesting and fun; among other things, you see meter changes that are seamless in the recording. For dummers out there, there are also exercises to practice the types of complex drumming that Bruford seems to do effortlessly. Something I hadn't previously noticed: in the verse of "Frame by Frame," there is an electronic hi-hat quietly (and cheerfully, as Bill says) counting out quarter notes in 4/4 under the 7/8 melody. You can even hear it in the live recording on the 3oaPP video. The book came out while Bill was working on Earthworks (first album), and he speaks of Crimson rather fondly, mentioning that he never left (and still hasn't) the group. If there is demand, I can type some of the commentary in, time allowing. What I'll probably do is excerpt parts relevant to Crimson, so as not to violate copyright too much since the book is still in print. I highly recommend the book for all Bruford fans (drummers and otherwise) for both the commentary and the charts. It's only talk, John Nash -===-John R. Nash-==-nash at chem dot wisc dot edu-==-UW-Madison Chem. Dept-===- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 6 Feb 94 19:55:56 -0600 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: Sleepless drumming A little while back, there was some discussion about Bruford's complex drum part to Sleepless being replaced with the simple one that is heard on the 3oaPP album. I believe it was suggested that Fripp had removed the busy stuff from the track, replacing it with a drum machine part. One thing to keep in mind is that the album track is actually a remix, by Bob Clearmountain. In remixes, the original drums are often the first to go, and this is what happened in this case. What's interesting is that on both subsequent compilations (Compact KC & Frame by Frame), the *original* track as recorded was used, including drumming that to my ears is clearly Bruford. Since these compilations were done by Fripp, I would hazard that the changing of the drumming was Clearmountain's doing. It's interesting to compare the versions of this song: o On the "original" version, Bruford plays bass drum on beats 1, 2, 3, and 4, with a lively part on the rototoms mirroring Levin's percussive bass. There is very little snare in the song. o On the "remixed" version, there is bass drum on 1 and 3, with electric snare on 2 and 4, i.e. the standard boom-chink of dance music. The rototoms have been removed entirely. The decision was presumably that Levin's part would be the only percussion instrument in this version. I like the fact that the bass is being used primarily as a percussion instrument here, with Belew's guitar providing most of the chordal cues. o On the live version from the commercial video, Bruford plays a part that is in between the two. He has conceded the snare part on 2 and 4, but keeps the rototom part as well. There will, of course, be a test on this next Friday. Bring a number 2 pencil to the computer lab.... Just some thoughts I had while rediscovering how much Bruford was 1/4 of King Crimson (as opposed to "the drummer who played along with the three musicians") while enjoying Bruford's book, When in Doubt, Roll! Jerry Marotta has some pretty big shoes to fill, IMHO. I hope he does it well, and I look forward to Bruford's next project, as soon as he can get it funded. Drummer's last words: "Hey guys, I have a song." Cheers, John Nash -===-John R. Nash-==-nash at chem dot wisc dot edu-==-UW-Madison Chem. Dept-===- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 16:54:28 PST From: rosenblu at UCSD dot EDU Subject: In reply to his reply This message is for Paul Martz (pmartz at dsd dot es dot com): I'm glad you read my last message, and I think I have to clarify something: The problem (If I can call it a problem) was not the autograph, that's the anecdote; The thing was that RF's behaviour at that moment showed ,what I thought was, a lack of respect for his fans and/or audience. I cannot avoid to compare his attitude to Rick Wakeman's when I met him in San Juan Capistrano last year. He showed to be a very warm and humble person and was talking to his "friends" (his fans) for hours (!!!) after the show, after that, I saw him again and made a contact for him to go to Lima-Peru, and he did not only go, but he recognized me, gave me a big hug and then we went to have tamales and other munchies together (In Lima). We still maintain a correspondence. As you can imagine, Fripp's reaction was a little shocking to me and I am a fanatic, what can I do ? Besides, I haven't lost my respect for the musician, I still think and will ever do, that he is extraordinary and one of the most influential music creators of this modern times, and if he played in this city tomorrow, I would pawn my bed to go and see him again. (I would not try to approach him, though). So, sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't mean to offend anybody or to appear like a spoiled kid that's upset because he couldn't get a candy. Hope to "read" from you again. Alan Rosenblum rosenblu at bend dot ucsd dot edu UCSD School of Architecture [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.