Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #123 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 123, Friday, 28 January 1994 Today's Topics: Contributions from RF/forthcoming release news Re: Oh, yes, it's about Fripp again California Guitar Trio gig/Tony Geballe Thoughts King Crimson discipline Re: Discipline #122 Re: Satori Re: Discipline #122 Anagrams and Discipline Schizoid Boy -- ELP/KC/Dan BOX SETS, etc. Brush-offs and Marotta [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Toby Howard Subject: Contributions from RF/forthcoming release news I've had a letter from Robert Fripp. He's sent some correspondence he's had with various critics, some of which I'll be running here in subsequent issues. He also promises us details of his dispute with EG management. He says "I doubt that a 'fanzine' has ever had a detailed insight into the life of a working musician quite like this before!" So that's something to look forward to in later issues. He also sent details of records planned for release in 1994. Here they are: 1. Official Discipline Bootlegs RF & The League of Gentlemen -- Toronto (1980) RF & The League of Crafty Guitarists -- LIve in Europe (1991) 2. Major releases: The Essential Fripp & Eno: includes 20 minutes of unreleased music from New York in 1979. King Crimson -- USA: The Second Edition. FFWD (The Orb + Thomas Fehlmann + Fripp); just completed. (the new) King Crimson -- The Rehearsal Tapes (mini-album) September/October. 3. Live performances with King Crimson are planned for Argentina this September 25 for three or four weeks 4. There is a Level One (Introductory) Guitar Craft course outside Buenos Aries end-March, also one in Japan duting end-August. Glad to pass this info on, but please don't ask me for more details just yet, because this is all I have for now. When I hear more, I'll pass it on! Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:23:20 MST From: pmartz at dsd dot es dot com (Paul Martz) Subject: Re: Oh, yes, it's about Fripp again Story about not being able to get Fripp's autograph, ends with: > but It is hard for me > to understand "godly attitudes" after the show is over. He could, at > least, have showed some education. Aren,t Gods supposed to be examples for > humans ? I'm afraid I can't feel admiration for his person anymore, How > could I ??? Couldn't he be a bit more HUMAN ?????? C'mon, it was just an autograph. You lose all admiration for someone because they don't give you their autograph? I find this hard to believe. Why is it that decades of great music making can suddenly be overlooked and forgotten after an incident as small as an autograph rejection? -paul "Eno is the one, Eno's the one to take pmartz at dsd dot es dot com One hundred percent for your stomach's sake... Evans & Sutherland Bubbly bubbly Eno!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: phil at sonosam dot wisdom dot bubble dot org (Phil Verdieck (x246)) Subject: King Crimson Date: 18 Jan 94 10:31:43 GMT Organization: Lysdexics R Us King Crimson has had many different phases. Basically it was whatever Robert Fripp wanted to do. Choosing one album to get a good feel is impossible, unless you get a lame compilation album. What I would do is get a few albums from different periods. This way you get a good feel, and in my opinion you are getting more for your money. 1st Period Court of The Crimson King In The Wake of Poseidon. Side I Greg Lake does vocals. The first side of Poseidon is a condensed rehash of Court. Call this classical prog, a heavily orchestrated sound. I'd recommend Court. 2nd Period (Call this bizarre experimentation In the Wake of Poseidon Side II Circus (I think) Islands Side I These are two separate and equally off beat albums. My favorite one is Islands. I'd recommend Islands. The vocalist is Mel Collins (or was he the sax player), of special note is a song on Circus with Jon Anderson. It is rumored he was a possible replacement vocalist. 3rd Period Islands Side II Red Starless and Bible Black Lark's Tongue and Aspic John Wetton on Vocals, A heavy jamming fusion sound. Great stuff. I recommend Red, only because I know it so well. I have to get off my butt and relisten to the other two albums. Although I love this stuff, some friends of mine called Red " heightened appreciation for silence". 5th Period Discipline Beat Three of a Perfect Pair Adrian Belew, Robert Fripp, Tony Levin and Bill Bruford. Most vocals done by Adrian Belew. A fantastic trio. It's hard to reccomend only one, but I'd say Three, I like it the best. Others will moan and say Discipline. I split up Poseidon and Islands, because as unusual as it seems, The music fits the other catagories better. The only questionable recommendation here would be Islands. It is the most bizarre of all the albums. If you really want to get into Crimson you must purchase the Young Person's Guide to King Crimson double LP. Get a used copy. Not the CD. Throw out the records. All you want is the booklet that comes with it. It is a compilation of news articles, reviews etc on Crimson over a substantial time period. This is a must find. I don't know if it was reproduced in legible form for the CD. Anyways, it will be easier to read the LP booklet. Enjoy Philip Verdieck phil at sonosam dot wisdom dot bubble dot org [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Tony Geballe Subject: California Guitar Trio gig/Tony Geballe "The California Guitar Trio and special guest Tony Geballe will appear in concert in New York City at Washington Square Church (W. 4th between McDougal and 6th Ave.) on Saturday, February 19, 1994 at 8:30 p.m. They will also be featured on John Schaeffer's program 'Around New York' on February 18 at 3:00 p.m. Reservations can be made by calling the Arden Party voice-mail at (212) 969-0551. Also, Tony will be presenting a course entitled 'Rhythm, Attention and Time' at the New York Open Center beginning January 31. For information, call (212) 219-2527." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) Subject: Thoughts Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 01:54:31 +0500 This is in response to the most recent Discipline 1. Regarding Fripp's style of performing, I will quote the man himself, from "The Road To Graceland:" We move from making unnecessary efforts, the exertions of force, to making necessary efforts: the direction of effortlessness. In this the prime maxim is: honor necessity, honor sufficiency. 2. Does Bill Bruford have any friends? He seems to quibble, perhaps justifiably, with nearly everyone. 3. Regarding the original KC lineup, and specifically Greg Lake: I'm glad someone thought that ELP's "Schizoid" was hysterical, since I won't feel so bad about not hearing it. The original lineup was (obviously) many people's introdution to the band. I have the complete Plumpton '69 tape, and "Schizoid," an untitled instrumental, and especially "In the Court" are literally jaw-droppers. I always liked Lake's voice, and I felt it was ELP's best selling-point, once Emerson got to be too much to listen to (for me, anyway.) I can well recall the excitement I felt in Spring 1992, when I ran to the store and snatched up "Black Moon" the ELP reunion disc. I cried after about the first minute. My complaints about the actual music notwithstanding, Lake's voice is shot to hell. It dropped about an octave and has (IMHO) no expression left in it. My thoughts, for whatever they are worth Terry [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: phv at equalizer dot cray dot com (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: Discipline #122 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 14:04:52 PST > Date: Wed, 5 Jan 94 17:32:53 PST > From: rosenblu at UCSD dot EDU > Subject: Oh, yes, it's about Fripp again > > Hello Toby, thank you for including me in your list of fripperzoids, I have > something to reply to all these fellows talking and defending some of Mr. > Fripp's "bad manners". > > I had the unnamable fortune of seeing Mr. Fripp at the Belly Up in Solana > Beach, California, somewhere in early 1993. It was a CGT/Fripp/Gunn (the > order doesn't indicate anything) show. I was in an extatic state (I would > have liked a couple less Frippertronics pieces, though) and thought about > Frippo as God and those funny words people use to designate him. When the > show ended (and after purchasing the mandatory promotional video and > T-shirt) I went to try to get the sacred autograph, which in the end turned > to be harder to get than the holy Grial !!!!! Of course, Mr. Fripp (Or > "God", whatever sounds better to my buddies), had disappeared long time ago > and was probably meditating or levitating in his sacred bubble. (I have to > say that when I tried to approach him before he left, he graciously > rejected me and made a subtle, funny sign to the security guard, something > hard to describe here). Anyways, after those incidents I managed to give > my "In the Court..." album to the same guard that had politely stopped me > before and I explained him the reason, the sacred purpose of my (very > normal and fanatic) behaviour. I come from Lima (Peru), that little and > forgotten - but not for that less beautyful- country in the middle of > western southamerica. There is, believe it or not, a big audience for > prog-rock, and of course, KC is always in the top five of any discussion. > > We (peruvians) haven't been very lucky with the visiting of our idols to > our country until a couple of years, when suddenly everybody started to go > to Peru: Jon Anderson, Jethro Tull, Rick Wakeman (Who is an extraordinarily > warm and nice person and whom I had the pleasure to act like a host for , > in Peru, of course). You can understand my excitement when I saw Fripp > (His was the first prog concert I had ever been in!!!!!) It is not my > intention (at all) to write this and send it to your great bulletin just to > criticize Mr. Fripp, I am still a big fan of him and I admire his > incredible musicianship and unique style. I have to say, though, that the > discomfort I felt after the show due to his strange (to say the least) > behaviour, even having gotten the (in)famous rubric, was at least the size > of my admiration for him. Look, I make music too, I play flute and sing, > and I know about beeing INTO the music when you play, but It is hard for me > to understand "godly attitudes" after the show is over. He could, at > least, have showed some education. Aren,t Gods supposed to be examples for > humans ? I'm afraid I can't feel admiration for his person anymore, How > could I ??? Couldn't he be a bit more HUMAN ?????? The way I look at music and musicians has changed to the point that its possible for me to be completely enthralled with a person's music and be uninterested in that person at the same time. What I mean is that, sure, I would like to meet that person and ask him/her about what inspired him/her to create that wonderful music and related questions but I wouldn't be hurt at all if that person didn't become my friend and I wouldn't want any access to personal information like what brand of hairstyling products does he/she use or does he/she eat Kellog's Frosted Flakes in the dark, etc. I find that quite a few of the musicians I admire seem to have opposing viewpoints on the musical process. The coleaders of Steely Dan, for example, Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, seem to have a distaste for avant-jazz as presented by Ornette Coleman and Anthony Braxton - I happen to like these two as well as Steely Dan. One of my favorite guitarists, Fred Frith, seems to be the opposite of another fave guitarist, Robert Fripp. Frith is the free-flying, laughing improviser who sometimes acts like he can't play at all ( mostly when he starts torturing his guitars with violin bows, Ebows, brushes, rice, etc.) yet in truth possesses extraordinary technique. Fripp of course is the disciplinarian who also has extraordinary technique and is more restrained than Frith, yet at the right moment (as demonstrated in Bowie's "Fashion") will break out of his self-imposed restraints. Finally, someone wrote to _Musician_ a letter which consisted of one sentence: "Fripp is an asshole" To which Fripp responded in a later issue that he thought back over the years, and concluded, yes Fripp is indeed an asshole. He said it, not me ;-) As much as I admire Fripp for his work and for inspiring me to be more "disciplined" in my own musical practice and to seek musical inspiration from musics around our planet and beyond and even non musical sources, he is definitely not "God" to me. I admire Fripp for his work and not for his personality of which I know very little beyond various writings by Fripp himself and others about him ( like in this mailing list ;-)). > PD. To Paolo Valladolid : I was sitting next to you in that concert, > Remember ? > > --------------------------- > Alan Rosenblum > rosenblu at bend dot ucsd dot edu > UCSD School of Architecture I remember you Alan. Yes, I saw the effect Fripp was having on you at the concert. It must have been amusing to Fripp when, as he was surveying the audience, he saw the look of rapture on your face and then moved on to my face, which was wearing its usual mask of cynical skepticism :-). Glad to know they haven't closed down the School of Architecture yet. > interesting. I wonder if Fripp and Frank ever crossed paths. Obviously > Fripp by mid-80's would know that Belew was working with Fripp and might > have been likely to have heard 80's King Crimson. > > I've said this before - I'm convinced that "replublicans" off the Guitar > 2-cd set is a poke at King Crimson of the 80's texturally. I can't say why > fer sure, but having seen the 80's KC tour for their 3rd lp a month or two > before seeing/hearing Zappa do that solo at the Tower in Philly, it was > *obvious* to me that it was a poke at KC's sound. Have a listen. Other > folks have also suggested previously that some of Sleep Dirt sounds like it > may be Fripp influenced or aware... Zappa listed Bartok and Stravinsky among his influences at various times. These same composers also influenced Fripp. While there are some parallels between the two composer/guitarists, they do differ in other areas. Zappa-philescan correct me on this one: the classical composer who probably had the greatest influence on Zappa was Edgar Varese. After finally getting a CD of Varese's symphonic works and listening carefully, I am more convinced than ever. I don't hear a similar influence of Varese in Fripp. I don't hear an influence of gamelan music in Zappa, who stated a disinterest in that music. I wouldn't put it past Zappa, who seemed to be difficult to impress anyway, to find something inherently amusing about Robert Fripp and King Crimson and to satirize them in some way. I could think of a dozen ways Zappa would have torn tunes like "21st Century Schizoid Man" (think of what he did to Hendrix's "Purple Haze" on _Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life_ or "Stairway to Heaven" where he transcribed Jimmy Page's guitar solo to be played by a horn section and set the verse to a reggae beat). Zappa made indirect (and not so indirect references to David Bowie) in a song or two he wrote to commemorate Belew's leaving him for Bowie, so if he was aware of Bowie, he was probably aware of Fripp. I wonder if Belew has already written/will write for King Crimson a tribute to Zappa or if the new band will be covering a Zappa tune or two in concert now that the man recently passed away. Speaking of the Zappa band, his last stunt guitarist, Mike Keneally now writes a wonderfully wacky column for _Guitar Player_. In the latest issue, Keneally contributes a collection of 70s guitar riffs, a fair number of which were originated by progressive rockers. Included are riffs from Gentle Giant, Steely Dan, and King Crimson (the "Red" riff). Have fun, you guitar playing Discipline readers! Cheers, -- Paolo Valladolid phv at equalizer dot cray dot com Cray Research Superservers, Inc. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 24 Jan 1994 13:43:27 -0500 From: "Mick Porter" Subject: Re: Satori In Disipline #122, Ray Ashley writes > Also, does anyone know what the word "Sartori" means? It is a Zen term which describes the awakening which one undergoes when one has achieved enlightenment. It is loosely synonymous with "Nirvana". Alan Watts, another contemporary of Ginsberg, Cassidy, Kerouac, et. al. has a book called *The Book* (very catchy title,) which might help. His approach is to explain the notion of god and the universe to children, and in so doing, to us. It goes something like this: In the beginning there was, and is, only god, alone in his great big universe. To keep himself amused, one of his favorite things to do is play hide and seek. But since he's the only *real* being there is, he has to play the game with himself. As a result, he has to be very, very convincing in his hiding from himself or the game would be too easy. So what he does is to disguise himself as you, and as me and as every other being alive, living under the illusion that we are separate individuals battling it out against a cruel and uncaring universe. Our job (through meditation, koans, chocolate chocolate chip ice cream, or what have you,) is to realize that we're really god, and as such, inseperable from the entire universe. When we've achieved that, we *wake up*, achieve Satori, and understand that we are the local manifestation of the whole universe. Just like if you shattered a glass hologram into a hundred pieces. If you hold a shard of it in the right light, you get the *entire* original scene, but *only* from one point of view. It's our job to realize that we are the local manifestation of the *entire* universe. Hope that helps. Mick Porter mick_porter at falconmicro dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 09:29:52 -0600 (CST) From: Larry Roger Nittler Subject: Re: Discipline #122 > > The reason Robert Fripp sits down when he plays is that sitting down with > the right foot elevated is the correct position to play the > guitar. Watching Robert play guitar is like watching Norm Abram make a > cabinet -- they both do everything exactly the right way, with a grace and > economy of movement that almost makes me weep. > While I don't want to make a huge deal out of this, this kind of thinking, that there is a 'correct' way to play a musical instrument, really frightens me. Musical instruments are tools created by people to make music. If one person feels that he expresses himself better musically by playing "sitting down with the right foot elevated" and another feels she does so by dancing around a stage, then both methods are "correct" and so is any other way (including playing with one's teeth or whatever) that a musician chooses. If people get stuck with rigid rules of what is correct and incorrect in music, music will die. (At the time King Crimson formed, the "correct" way to play rock music was to play E-A-D very loudly.) Larry R. Nittler [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: RAMIZ at vms dot huji dot ac dot il@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 16:47 +0200 Subject: Anagrams and Discipline Hello all, 1) For a long time now i've been trying to find out what stands behind the name Larks' Tongues In Aspic (and don't ask me why :) If there is a simple explanation that i don't know, i'd appreciate it if someone would post it. I am positive that this is another one of Fripp's anagrams, it must be. I even got out some complete sentences out of it, but none of them seems to be the "right" one to me. I'm pretty sure of two things: the word KING should be there, and the apostrophe means that the 'S suffix in there somewhere. Other words that may appear: PICTURE(S), SATAN, RULE(S), ... Ideas someone? 2) As a continuation to the discussion on Fripp's nature i wish to express what i feel about it: i have the notion that RF is contradicting himself (which is only human), in the sense that he is not living up to his own writing on his flag - namely (*) "Discipline is not an end in itself, just a means to an end" What do i mean? Follows is a summary of my opinions on the whole subject, i hope you won't find it inappropriate. Disclaimer: by no means is the following dogmatic! I'm now presenting two interpretations to the word "discipline" (that you are familiar with i'm sure): (A) The capacity of an individual to convert his effortlessness to usefulness for him, within his own mental and physical limits (regardless of the method in which this is done). (B) A tool used by an individual to channel (and sometimes comouflage[sp?]) his aggressive energies to his own benefit, on the expense of other beings. Interpretation (A) matches the saying (*). Interpretation (B) mismatches it. Suppose that each individual has a choice of splitting his "100% discipline" among the three:(A),(B),(C-none) The third option allows us to assume that each individual has an equal "amount of discipline" in him. A thing capable of fulfilling interpretation (A) by 100% is, say, divine. A thing capable of fulfilling interpretation (B) by 100% is, say, infernal. No human being can fulfill either (A) or (B) by 100% (although a lot can fulfill (C) by close to that!!), because those two are dependant in a way which does not enable such a combination. Neither can Robert Fripp, but the question i was asking myself is how (schematically) the percents are split in the man's mind. When i said that i felt that he doesn't live up to (*), i meant that i fear that he's not as godly as he wants us to belive he is (still, and forever, one of the most gifted ever in making music and playing the guitar). Not much of a bottomline, but that's all i wanted to say... o o ^ Rami. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: %BURLINGTON%CSICUS dot compuserve dot com at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Date: 25 Jan 94 15:17:07 EST Subject: Schizoid Boy -- ELP/KC/Dan BOX SETS, etc. Regarding David Craig's inquiry about Schizoid man & the ELP Box Set--unless you haven't updated your ELP vynil to one of the previously re-mastered CDs, you may want to wait before forking out 60 bucks for "Return of The Manticore." "Schizoid Man" is a very abbreviated version played by ELP last year (about three minutes)--and it's really just a re-hash of Lake's vocal part--spend your hard earned dough on "The Great Deceiver" -- even with Wetton singing, his bass work on the Schizoid Man in that set--coupled with Bruford/Fripp is about as ferocious as anything you'll hear on CD--and as inspired as anything but the original version. The news is: I spoke to both Greg Lake and Carl Palmer when they premiered the new tracks from "Manticore" in surround-sound at Dolby Labs in (Van Nuys or Noho? -- Wonder if it's still standing). Anyway, Lake tells me he's now living in the Valley most of the time. Anyway, ELP is recording a new studio LP, and Lake seems confident it will be more adventurous and progressive than "Black Moon." Also recorded in "surround sound" were two tracks from Palmer's and Emerson's pre-ELP days--Atomic Rooster and The Nice. THE REAL NEWS is Lake said these tracks along with the new studio version of "Pictures At An Exhibition would be coming out sometime in '94 on a single CD release presumably after they'd sold as many "Manticores" as possible). I wasn't very impressed by ELP's "Schizoid Boy" -- Lake's singing, however is always a pleasure, tempered as it is now by years of drink and smoke... The "surround sound" medium lends itself to this music--but to anyone without wads of excess cash--it's just that excess. Dolby thinks that "100,000" households will be buying into their 5-speaker systems in '94. Maybe. Fripp's booklet--not to mention the artwork--not to mention the sound quality--(okay, there's a few too many versions of 'Exiles' or whatever), makes 'The Great Deceiver' my nomination for the best live-box set of a vital musical force, 1960 to present. Best box set period from the '70s. The Steely Dan box--year's biggest disappointment--nothing rare pulled out of the vault like "Dallas" for example. The booklet is mostly platered with well-publicized photos and dozens of review quotes (mostly out of context) and a long affectionate piece (it's OK) by Chris Willman on how great the Dan were... Any Keith Tippett fans out there? How about a Tippett update... I know for a fact that much of the U.S. KC "Three of a Pair" tour was recorded on high-quality 24 track. The corresponding LA show at the Greek Theater was phenomenal. Anybody know of any plans to release this --or other '80s KC live material--other than what appeared on "Frame"? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 17:23:53 -0700 From: dalton at isidis dot colorado dot edu (lizard man) Subject: Brush-offs and Marotta Not in that order. I am trying to find Suzanne Vega's album with "Blood Makes Noise" on it....hopefully this will convince me that Jerry Marotta is worthy of being in KC. And about brush-offs. Looking back, i realize i totally deserved it, and am embarassed to relate the story, but it's been over 5 years and i am now somewhat more mature and can see it differently. I don't recall if i told this story already but here goes: I saw the League of Crafty Guitarists in San Francisco in '87 or '88 at the Great American Music Hall, which is a beautiful venue for any kind of music. I was in the upstairs balcony section, beside the stage, facing Fripp. Although we were polite and quiet throughout the show, after it was over everybody was clapping loudly while the band stood and took their bows. Yes the show was incredible but that is not what i am here to relate. During the applause, some boisterous people were whistling and cheering, and being somewhat impressionable and boisterous myself, i leaned forward and shouted "Fripp! Fripp! Fripp! Fripp!...." I thought i was completely lost in the noise but Robert looked up at me, unsmiling, and placed his free hand on the neck of his guitar....with the middle finger outstretched. I didn't catch the significance immediately until my friend cracked up and started laughing, shaking me and shouting, "Fripp is flipping you off! Ha ha! I don't believe it, Fripp is flipping you off!" I looked back down at Robert's hand and sure enough, he was very subtly but firmly giving me the finger. I was mortified and embarassed, realizing that it was not a Fripp concert, of course, it was a Crafty concert, and my boisterous attention was not exactly the kind of response considered appropriate for such an august assemblage. By then i had stopped shouting and Robert was no longer looking at me, but the hand remained and the damage was done. oh well, live and learn! :-) --lizard man (BTW i played "Neurotica", "Sample and Hold", "Two Soldiers", and the "Voyage to the Centre of the Cosmos" improv on my campus radio show today....along with more modern contributions of the Ozric Tentacles, Slowdive, Verve, Therapy? and Acid Test! Couldn't help mentioning it.) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.