Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1223 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1223 Thursday, 23 March 2006 Today's Topics: What happened to ET, indeed! Leave your licks at the door The State of ET Crim reference on Tony's web site P.J. Crook Need a new ET Webmaster KTU Lack of postings to ET Central Park - July 1, 1974 TLev and P6 Life in Music feasting ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send *all posts* to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com ** Posts intended for the newsletter should have a subject prefix of ETPOST ** Posts intended for an individual newsletter contributor should have a subject prefix of their ET 'Ticket Number', shown at ETxxxxx in their 'From:' line in the newsletter. To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Mike Dickson (ET Newsletter distribution/subscriptions) Nadim S. Haque (ET Webmaster) Toby Howard (ET founder and Newsletter Moderator) Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster Emeritus) ET presents the view of the authors of posts in good faith, in a spirit of free and open discussion. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors of posts. The ET TEAM accepts no responsibility for the views of authors of posts. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:28:07 GMT From: Mike Dickson Subject: What happened to ET, indeed! Fermier World HQ wrote... > I, too, have noticed a significant drop off in Elephant Talk activity. I > think that the drop off started when Et went to the existing method for > posting messages. A little too complicated when compared to the previous > method of just sending off a post. > > I realize that the change was brought about due to all of the SPAM that was > making Mike Dickson's life miserable. But, I think that it killed the > spontaneity. Us at ET World HQ have had a discussion on this, and the 'ETPOST' method of posting is unlikely to be withdrawn. The amount of spam received by ET is incredible, and some automated methiod of dealing with it is absolutely necessary. Further to that, this method of posting was produced to stop ET subscribers' e-mail addresses appearing in ET which could in turn be harvested by spammers who trawl the web looking for e-mail addresses to flood with their drivel about viagra and how Barclays Bank have forgotten your personal details, etc. We all appreciate that it has killed a little of the spontaneity to which you refer, and for that we are sorry. However, please be aware that we are only doing this due to the fact that other rather more disreputable forces than ET are at work to stifle much of the spontaneity that used to make the Internet that much more fun than it is now. We are only reacting to that in an attempt to keep ET afloat and its subscribers protected. Mike Dickson, Elephant Talk Administration and Distribution ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:10:32 -0500 From: Greg Jones Subject: Leave your licks at the door Just thought I'd say that I've been rereading Sid Smith's Crimson book, particularly from the Wetton era to the end, for inspiration to try and create something truly unique in my own musical endeavors. Their continuous ethic about not relying on all their standard licks and tricks is amazing to me and the results are even more incredible. My own bands (and it's a passion but just a hobby; I'm no pro) over the years have been increasingly more fulfilling and less directly derivative of my various heroes but I can still always put the overall sound "in the ballpark" of other bands. I truly think that my favorite King Crimson songs sound like nobody else and that both inspires me and confounds me compositionally. So it's a gas to read what the guys were thinking and attempting to do that yielded all this life-changing, glorious sound. Hope to be one one-hundredth as successful in creating my own voice. Greg Jones PS - if any of you care to hear my latest still "derivative" project, there's a song montage from my band Pinnacle's latest cd Meld at www.pinnacleband.com . I'm proud of this, our second effort, but I in no way think we've done anything uniquely ours. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:43:19 -0800 From: Daniel Kirkdorffer Subject: The State of ET In ET 1222 Rex Fermier mistaking me for my brother wrote: > Hi Dan, > > I, too, have noticed a significant drop off in Elephant Talk > activity. I think that the drop off started when Et went to > the existing method for posting messages. A little too > complicated when compared to the previous method of just > sending off a post. > > I realize that the change was brought about due to all of the > SPAM that was making Mike Dickson's life miserable. But, I > think that it killed the spontaneity. > > Just my thoughts. > Rex, at Braidwood since 1995! Hello Rex - Glad to hear Braidwood hasn't had a meltdown yet. I have to admit I've also found the posting system a little complex but if it keeps SPAM out I think it is worth keeping. Also in ET 1222 Dan Wasser wrote: > Seriously, I think there's less chit chat because Crim itself > is kind of dormant. If they're not recording new stuff and > not touring, then there's not much to discuss, is there? I > mean, as much as I love The Beatles, I can't believe that > there are so many chat forums and bulletin boards about 'em. > So, the same thing goes for Crim: if THEY aren't active, I > can't see how we can be so active, either. > > On the other hand, I never posted that much anyway. > > Dan When ET started Crimson was dormant too, but it quickly became very chatty. I think that the newsletter has received less traffic in the past few years because other more immediate forms of communication between enthusiasts have sprung up. There are multiple forum based sites, and DGM's own forum/guestbook, and so this newsletter has suffered a natural decline. Furthermore, the newness has worn off for many who discovered other KC fans through ET, for the first time in many cases. In addition the Web site has become stagnant simply due to a lack of energy behind maintaining it. More on that front in another post to come. I used to read every ET with great anticipation. I'd print them out and read them at lunch. Eventually I couldn't keep up with them they were coming out so frequently - my hats off to Toby for being able to. When I do check in these days I still find interesting posts and the content is more quickly read as the digests are mercifully shorter than when they were over 100K in size. It is that happy medium that works best IMO. Dan Kirkdorffer ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:39:30 -0800 From: Don Hosek Subject: Crim reference on Tony's web site Actually, oddly enough I was just looking at Adrian Belew's website a few minutes ago which explained a bit about what the state of things is: > king crimson: > > robert and I speak at least once a week. > > he has given me the clear impression that for crimson this is a > time of gentle building toward the next generation of crimson > material including periodic writing with the two of us here at > studiobelew, and a time for assessing future ways of working. the > band will be active again at some point and with tony levin in the > line-up. So the reports on "Fripp and Adrian" are precisely that periodic writing with the two of them mentioned in Adrian's update (from May of last year!) -dh --- Don Hosek, bassist http://don.dream-in-color.net/ 310/438-8209 don at dream-in-color dot net The double bass is also called the bass viol, string bass, and bass fiddle. It has so many names because it is so huge. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:27:48 +0100 From: "Neulinger, Franz" Subject: P.J. Crook Fellow Crimheads, does anybody know when these P.J. Crook paintings have been made: "The Vets Waiting Room" "Recollection" "Walking the Beast"? What is the title of the painting used for the artwork of "Ladies of the Road"? When has it been painted? Thanks for your help, Franz Neovalis Neulinger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:12:48 -0800 From: daniel Subject: Need a new ET Webmaster ET Web needs your help. After helping as ET Webmaster for the past two and half years, Nadim Haque is moving on, and we need to find a new ET Webmaster to take over the reins. I'd like to thank Nadim for all his efforts - he took on a heavy load. I've enjoyed all my interactions with Nadim and I hope he stays in touch with the ET crowd. In the past I've asked volunteers to email me with their qualifications, and while I'm asking again, I think the main requirement is that you be trustworthy and that you actually have time to take on the job of maintaining, and hopefully, enhancing the site. The current site has essentially been the same since I established the design about 10 years ago, and while that's a good sign of longevity, a new design is long overdue. However, asking someone to step in as Webmaster AND create a new site is asking a lot. I would be quite happy if someone could simply keep the site up to date and active, as that in itself can be time consuming. On the technical front, you will need to understand HTML, JavaScript and Perl, although a familiarity, rather than proficiency, with Perl might be enough. Note: you will not get paid. You don't have to be the biggest King Crimson or Robert Fripp fan, although I suspect you'll enjoy doing this more (especially without pay) if you are a fan (no need to be the biggest). To be honest, I'm not holding my breath that we'll find a new Webmaster, but I hope that somewhere out there in ET land there is someone who thinks they are up for the role. If you think you are please email me. Dan Kirkdorffer ET Webmaster Emeritus daniel at kirkdorffer dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:49:22 -0800 (PST) From: Phil - Subject: KTU Hi all, I'm not sure if it's already been discussed (I don't think it has?) but in the light of people's e-mails saying things about the lack of ET activity at the minute it can't do any harm in mentioning (or re-metioning?)the KTU CD '8 Armed Monkey' featuring the skills of Trey and Pat plus 2 wierd Finnish geezers.Ive only just caught up with it and it certainly caught my attention.Treys bassline on the track 'Absinthe' is reasonably awesome and worthy of purchasing the CD on it's own.This track can be listened to (as well as 2 others off the CD) on the link: WWW.MYSPACE.COM/KTUBAND Have a listen if you've not already - it'll blow you're mind plus remind us all of what a huge loss that Trey Gunn is to the KC lineup. Phil M. (Ramsgate in sunny old England - not!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:29:46 -0800 (PST) From: rich mlinar Subject: Lack of postings to ET We need to bring back some informed controversy. Where are the posts from Robert Cervero, Steve Smith, Dr P? (Ted?), Jim Hannigan, and eb? Was it ever settled - does Adrian belong in Crimson? And why won't Fripp pose for a photo as he autographs my sixteen bootleg Crimson LPs? Is Bill in the pocket? LOL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:25:09 -0800 (PST) From: rich mlinar Subject: Central Park - July 1, 1974 Well, not quite...but John Wetton with the School of Rock All-Stars were quite entertaining at the NY Knitting Factory on Saturday. We were expecting an "Asia-lite" performance with the odd Crimson tune thrown in. Instead, Wetton and youth played for 2 1/2 hours, with only two Asia songs, one UK tune, but many Crimson tunes, including Exiles, In the Court, Fallen Angel, Trio, Talking Drum, Larks Tongues Pt II, Red, The Night Watch, a Crimson jam (title escapes me), and ending with a full-length Starless. Not a bad setlist! Wetton looked and sounded much better than he did on the occasions we'd seen him in the late '90s. His voice was fine. He played bass for over half of the songs, and really seemed to enjoy the occasion. The sound in the room was great, they had a near-capacity crowd - most there to see Wetton. The School of Rock All-Stars, a mix of teens and young 20s, were more accomplished players than I'd expected. During the course of the show, depending on the tune, they featured four drummers, a couple of bass players, six lead guitarists, a couple of keyboardists, a violinist, flutist, and vocalists. Players were trooping on and off stage after almost every tune, but they covered a lot of material during the course of the night. Some of the players were better than others, and they featured two lead guitarists on most tunes, but they nailed the leads on almost every song. They also played several songs without Wetton, including tracks by Zappa, Zeppelin, Blind Faith, Janis Joplin, and Van Halen. The evening ended with a way-over-the-top jam of Heat of the Moment. Wetton's performance last night gives hope for the Asia reunion this summer. The Village Voice commented that now that Adrian Belew (wish we'd caught that show) and Wetton have played with the School, it's time for Fripp to get off the computer and play with them - that would be surprising. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:01:29 -0500 From: John Eagan Subject: TLev and P6 Referring to the stuff about Levin and not being involved in the "Project 6 Sessions".... I'm certainly not privy to inside details. But,reading the ongoing saga of the life of Bob the Happy Gigster on the DGM diaries: It seems apparent that this was simply a case of killing a few birds with a single stone, as Fripp was just passing through on the way to do a set of solo Soundscapes gigs around the southeastern U.S. in the role of Bob the Happy Small Mobile Intelligent Unit. RF was doing gigs in that area of the world. Friend and colleague Belew lives in Nashville area. So, visit friend and colleague Adrian, have a comfortable place to stay for a few days to get somewhat settled between transatlantic travel and a series of gigs, in a semi-familiar setting with people who know him and care, in a place that serves as one of his auxiliary home bases, where life almost like, you know, a real human, is possible, pick up some laundry, contemplate thoughts while viewing a landscape suitable for humans, and, incidentally, while there, take advantage of the situation of being in a place with a good friend and talented musical associate who also happens to have all his gear there complete with a very good recording studio, and make some music in what time is available over a day or three. I'm sure the playing that happened was both fun and professionally useful for Robert and Adrian, but I doubt that, in the context at hand, it would have seemed like a good and practical idea to try to drag in Pat and Tony from their respective home bases, complete with equipment, for a few hours of experimentation and playing and making this a full blown KC recording session. I think many people massively underestimate the logistics and expense and sheer Major Work that is required to assemble Crimson as a fully functioning musical unit and DO STUFF. This is not "hey, Bob's in town, throw your instrument in the car and come on over and we'll jam for a while". JLE ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:29:13 -0800 From: DBC Subject: Life in Music I don't know about any one else's local music scene but in California it has been for years and is in need of some biblical disturbance; a wake up call if you will. No one leaves more impact or unsettles the nervous system better than King Crimson, Gabriel, Bruford, Yes, Jeff Beck or even the Dixie Dregs when they come through town. It has been eons for any of them. Nowadays it equals the cost of political contributions to perform in these woods. Being a musician as many of you are probably as well, to be enlightened and inspired to compose new music, you need to change your environment instead of rotting away in the pot of survival which dulls the senses and leaves no room for play. In time it may cross our paths that we have the opportunity to carry the torch and spread the wealth of our musical education along or be subject to hearing an oversaturated legion of cover bands feasting on a legend's legacy. In 35 year of drumming on the circuit I have yet to come across any local musicians who will dabble in anything that isn't played on burnt out tired repetitive FM and not a word of Crimson has ever been uttered until I teamed up with a music teacher back in 1995. We were both die hard King fans and all 3 band members rushed out to buy tickets for the Wiltern show, we ended up going to 2 out of the 3 shows. They have not graced Orange County since 1984. We quickly chose Red and One More Red Nightmare to cover. Aptly the 3 piece lineup, but we needed a front man. Needless to say the subject matter of Nightmare abruptly halted the remote possibility of finding any vocalist who could actually sing better than Kurt Cobain or Corgan. I had been searching all over Orange County for Guitar synth and Stick players as soon as I heard Discipline back in 1981. Around 1985 I bought a used 5 pad Simmons electronic drum kit and combined it with a 10 piece Gretsch with octabons too. Very few night clubs could accommodate this array. Fact of the matter is, if it wasn't for new wave and Van Valen there might have been a revival. To this day there are still no King bands around here, but there is a Yes, ELP, Dead, Dylan, too many Zeps, used to be a Rush band here and there, Van Halen, ACDC, Iron Maiden, ok that is enough. The dismal decline in this newsletter has allot to do with the inactivity in the camp itself which is sad but for the most part although Robert has always expressed his dislike of live recordings, he has been recording the show himself and sharing them. The miracles of DAT. I am curious to know what the local scene is around the country and the world dc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:16:41 -0000 From: buddha Subject: feasting Possibly one reason for the reduction in ET contributions is the veritable feast of exciting archive Crimson now available to us through the KCCC and DGM Live, which may be deflecting us from the keyboard to the speakers. It is absolutely wonderful to be able to visit these extraordinary events of the distant or recent past and be in the present with the music. Sometimes one is only brought back when the tape runs out or some other flaw breaks the spell. I never dreamt that I would ever hear the Zoom Club warm up gigs or the complete unabridged Asbury Park and am gleeful to have the complete Arlington set, this is all priceless stuff. For those who haven't heard it the latest KCCC release (Live at the Wiltern) is staggeringly good. However I do love those old 70's concerts whatever the sound quality, they are important historical events waiting to be heard don't you think? D ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1223 *********************************