Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #121 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 121, Wednesday, 22 December 1993 Today's Topics: My Fripp story Discipline #120 GUITAR FOR THE PRACTICING MUSICIAN -- Letter to the Editor thoughts on Bill Bruford Re: Discipline #120 Fripp Tony Levin Energy conservation Humble apologies Another review of "The First Day" Bruford / Marotta Performing In Front Of An Audience Pete Sinfield's "Stillusion" Re:Levin's Roadshow Fripp and Stravinsky Thanks (for) giving [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Welcome to the last Discipline of 1993. I'll take this opportunity to wish you all a merry Xmas, and a peaceful and happy New Year. See you in 1994! -- Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Steven_L dot _Bender at gorgias dot ilt dot tc dot columbia dot edu Organization: The Dalton School Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 01:57:57 GMT Subject: My Fripp story I've been a fan for a long time, and have seen many performances (the Central Park "U.S.A." show was my first). When I started seeing Fripp in small venues (churches, record stores, etc.) I was impressed by the way he began shows by silently looking around the audience, making eye contact with people. It always seemed to me that there was a smile of recognition when our eyes met, but I told myself this was wishful thinking. When I saw the League of Gentlemen in London (at the Marquee) in 1980 (or was it late '79?) I saw Fripp after the show and chatted with him about how amazing I thought the band was live (the audience response to this "dance music" was lukewarm). He asked if he knew me, if I had been to many shows in N.Y. I was amazed that he did, in fact, seem to recognize me. In any event, we had a nice talk. I encountered him again as a graduate student the following year at Princeton when he came by on the "Lecture" tour as a "small, mobile, intelligent unit. He called on me for a question and we had an interesting little debate about his opposition to taping live shows. I told him I had a "League" bootleg that I thought caught he band better than the album. He was willing to believe this, but still thought taping took one away from the "live" aspect of the event. I agreed with this, but explained that I was the fortunate recipient of this tape, not the actual taper. Later (I think, the chronology is a bit confusing) that year, I was on my way to a church in the village for a Frippertronics concert, and who should come walking down the street, guitar in hand, but Mssr. Fripp. He stopped to talk to my wife about her hat-- it seems that he is an antique hat enthusiast, the hat in question had been passed down to my wife from her grandmother. At some point in the conversation, he noticed me standing next to her and said "Hello, I know you". We talked for a few minutes. The show was great. I know that these are not significant encounters. Still, the fact that Fripp has this kind of relationship to fans (I've heard many similar stories) is, to me, a symbol of the man's integrety, genuineness and love of what he does. He is a musician and human being for whom I have the utmost respect-- I hope that our paths cross again inm the future. (I hope that wasn't too boring) Thnaks. steve [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 11:23:02 -0800 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: Discipline #120 >From: David A. Craig >Subject: trey gunn and CGQ > >first, BUY 1000 YEARS. thank me later. I agree. >At the bay area shows i saw i would have to say, "i >disagree". anyone else who was there care to back me up (mr relph? mr >peck?)? I guess that's my cue. Actually, I don't much like his playing. His solos especially seem like just noodling around: I don't see form and intent creating direction and light. He has sufficient technique, but seems to have very little sense of melody and musicality. While Trey often reproduces the *sound* of a ripping Fripp, IMO Michael Brooks often captures the *spirit*, the essense. On the Soundscape recording, I always skip past the Trey solos. The members of the CGT (Bert Lams, Paul Richards, Hideyo Moriya) are much stronger players and musicians. That said, I really like 1000 Years. Its strength is Trey's strength: texture. Recommended. I'll have to order the new CGT. I really like their first. I hope they record more originals/Craftie/cover tunes next time. The classical pieces they do are not nearly as interesting to me. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 17 Dec 1993 14:30:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Fluffhead was a man with a horrible disease..." Subject: GUITAR FOR THE PRACTICING MUSICIAN -- Letter to the Editor Hey Fellow Fripp-heads, This month's issue of Guitar for the Practicing Musician contains a conversation between Steve Vai and Adrian Belew. Mostly they are talking about various electronic equipment (yawn) but they do talk a little about Frank Zappa and Robert Fripp. Also, the letters column features an "Open Letter to Robert Fripp" where someone is criticizing Robert for trying to relive the 80's with the new rumored lineup of Crimson and encouraging him to find some new talent and make some different music. The letter is pretty harsh on Belew, Levin, Gunn, and Marrotta. Sorry I don't have time to type the article in, but I thought you might like to know about it. Josh [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 14:49:02 -0600 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: thoughts on Bill Bruford >From the quoted Sylvian/Fripp interview in the last issue: "...Jerry Marotta replacing Bruford (Fripp won't be able to work with Bruford until he's no longer with EG)...." My thoughts and opinions on the matter: - It seems likely to me that Bill may not be with EG much longer, since he's not the commercial success that they'd like him to be (note that he is the only remaining Crimso member with the label). This may be EG's decision, or it may be a mutual parting. - I think the "recording label" excuse given is just that, and that the personal/musical (which are one and the same, as espoused in Fripp's contribution to last issue) problems are the real reason. - It has occurred to me that if Bruford had not left Yes before Topographic Oceans, he would have certainly left during or after, since he would have responded to the "dictation of what the album would be" from Jon and Steve in a way similar to Wakeman's response. Note that Marotta and White are drummers who are more straight "time-keeping" than Bruford, the drummer they replaced -- a creative drummer is great in theory, but a lot of musicians seem to have a hard time playing with one for an extended period of time. - I accept that Bruford will continue to do money-making ventures to fund what he really would like to do, even if it means appearing on "Regis and Kathie Lee." It would be nice to have a few million dollars handy to support the cause, though.... - Perhaps he needs his own label (as ex-Marillion leader Fish has done), but that again requires capital. Perhaps he should consider working with Fish, who has also run up against the lack of money associated with artistic integrity.... - Bruford, Levin, and Belew don't seem to have any conflicts with one another. It is likely that Bruford would be in King Crimson if asked by Fripp, but he is unlikely to abandon his drumming style, for anyone. Thanks for listening. It's only talk. -john ----------------------------------- Ho Ho Hum. John R. Nash nash at chem dot wisc dot edu ----------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 16:19:53 MST From: Greg Picklesimer Subject: Re: Discipline #120 Richard Barnett writes in Discipline #118 (edited): > > ... > >i'd never seen fripp live before - i was rather surprised that he sat bolt > >upright and almost entirely motionless for the duration. he was almost > >always shrouded in darkness, too, and his movements were very conservative > > >As for the mysterious Mr. Fripp staying out of the spotlight, perhaps this > >is his way of saying that the tour does not represent his musical aims, > >i.e., "I'm glad to help out, but this is not me"? Lee Schumacher responded in Discipline #120 (also edited): > Actually I interpreted this as either shyness (if not outright stage > fright) or perhaps as distaste for live performance. I recall that on one > occasion (I think in Oberlin, OH - and a very small venue) he was really > getting into a solo and began to slowly rise from his stool, and then he > started and looked around sort of sheepishly as if to say 'oops, I almost > showed some emotion there' and then sank back down. > > At all of these shows he hardly ever looked at the crowd, showed very > little facial expression, and had almost no 'body language'. > > I think that this (lack of) stage presence is a 'trademark' of his. > > Has anybody out there seen the 'original' (i.e. pre-discipline) KC tour ? > Did Fripp act that way back then ? > I have seen Crimson twice, once in '74 in an arena setting in Tampa,FLA and also in '81 in a theatre setting in Columbus, OH. Both times RF played from a seated position and remained in the background (visually) and allowed JW or AB to be the primary band member to interact with the audience. It never crossed my mind to consider this as stage fright, and certainly not distaste for performing live. From various interviews and liner notes I have seen, I have developed the opinion that RF has a much higher distaste for recorded music and values live performances as the essence of musical craft. His lack of animation, compared to most rock musicians, more than likely represents a respect for the music as the focal point, rather than the musician/instrument. With all the personnel KC has been through, and all the collaborations RF has been a part of over the years, can you really believe that he would waste time touring with a band that didn't "represent his musical aims"? Incidently, the '74 concert I attended began with Robin Trower, followed by KC, and headlined by none other than those metal maniacs POCO. Trower played well, but the sound was terrible. The KC performance remains to this day the finest live show I have ever attended. I`ve been reliving this show through the Great Deciever material, but I don't think I'll ever again see a band with the same energy, power, creativity and virtuosity. After Crimson played, virtually everyone in the arena left. I overheard one of the security guards say, as I walked out "Where's everybody going? I thought there were 3 bands on the bill." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 93 16:09:02 EST Subject: Fripp 1. According to the Frame by Frame booklet, Fripp has been sitting down to play ever since the 9th KC gig ever when he started it. Jimi Hendrix came up to him afterwards -his right arm in a sling- and said, "Shake my left hand, man. It's closer to my heart." If that happened to me, I'd never stand up. 2. Reading Fripp's contribution to Discipline, I couldn't shake the feeling that I was reading an I Ching translation, not because of what was said, but how it was presented. 3. Two recent graffiti messages at my favorite bar (Hungry Charley's in Syracuse, NY). Fripp is _still_ God. The Death of the Universe and other heartwarming tales- copyright 1993 by King Crimson. Terry [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 93 16:29:45 EST Subject: Tony Levin I'm on the Chapman Stick e-mailing list, "Stick Figures," and currently we are trying to figure out a workable wireless system for the stick. I suggested contacting Mr. Levin, as he does indeed play wireless stick. So, does anyone know how to contact Tony Levin regarding a few technical questions? Would he be interested in answering them? Terry [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 13:03:20 EST From: fenkner at clam dot rutgers dot edu (White_Lily) Subject: Energy conservation >Actually I interpreted this as either shyness (if not outright stage >fright) or perhaps as distaste for live performance. I recall that on one >occasion (I think in Oberlin, OH - and a very small venue) he was really >getting into a solo and began to slowly rise from his stool, and then he >started and looked around sort of sheepishly as if to say 'oops, I almost >showed some emotion there' and then sank back down. It seems that you are clearly lost in your observations and that you do not understand music or Robert Fripp. If you study the ideas of Robert Fripp, you will see that it is a total waste of energy to dance about the stage like Eddie Van Halen with his guitar at hei crotch. If you open your eyes and watch Fripp, you will see that his motions are graceful and with purpose. Ah... well, anyway.. Sincerely, Lilie [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 17:01:38 GMT From: Ian Piumarta Subject: Humble apologies I just listened to the RFSQ CD. I'm in awe of some of the stuff Trey was doing. My unreserved apologies if I might have suggested he needed to try harder. I'm blown away by some of the Stick work on this album. If you haven't got a copy GO GET ONE NOW! Ian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 12:49:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe D'Andrea Subject: Another review of "The First Day" Sure, it has been out for a bit, but the reviews keep coming in. Here's one from Down Beat magazine, January 1994, on page 43 (reproduced without permission): David Sylvian/Robert Fripp -- The First Day -- Virgin 0777 7 88208 2 6: God's Monkey; Jean The Birdman; Firepower; Brightness Falls; 20th Century Dreaming; Darshan; Bringing Down The Light. (63:30) Personnel: Sylvian, vocals, guitar, keyboards; Fripp, guitar; Trey Gunn, Chapman stick, vocals; David Bottrill, sampled percussion, programming; Jerry Marotta, drums, percussion; Marc Anderson, percussion; Ingrid Chavez, vocals. Rating: **** 1/2 (out of 5) Armed with an electric guitar, Robert Fripp can be a malevolent force, capable of inflicting crushing power chords or relentless, convulsed solos. Fripp has subordinated these facets of his persona in recent years, preferring "Frippertronic" guitar loops or his acoustic League of Crafty Guitarists over rock music as vehicles for improvisation. Even in the last edition of Fripp's King Crimson, the guitarist usually played rhythm, shunning the limelight in favor of singer/guitarist Adrian Belew. _The First Day_ rocks hard and mean, offering sustained Fripp lead guitar in a context rarely heard since his mid-'70s King Crimson incarnation. At first glance, David Sylvian's introspection seems like a mismatch for Fripp's intemperance. Since disbanding the Roxy Music-influenced group Japan, Sylvian has generated moody, meditative solo work, with oblique, mystical lyrics. The collaboration works, as Fripp pushes Sylvian to extend his vocal range. Sylvian helps craft appropriate tunes, and encourages Fripp to play like Fripp. After "God's Monkey" and "Jean the Birdman," concise, hook-filled tunes featuring Sylvian, Fripp dominates the project. "Firepower" and "20th Century Dreaming" surround Sylvian's brooding vocals with brutish guitar chords before giving way to extended instrumental vamps, centered on Trey Gunn's vibrant Chapman stick. These vamps support Fripp's twisting solos and Sylvian's atmospheric electronics, though at greater than necessary length. Fripp's leads quote vintage Crimson as well as Jimi Hendrix. "Darshan" exhaustively explores a 17-minute funk riff. Somewhat reminiscent of _Panagea_-era Miles, it's the most successful use of dance music either Fripp or Sylvian has achieved. Fripp launches solos from these repetitive rhythm beds, much as he would use Frippertronics or the League of Crafty Guitarists. The tactic diminishes the power of Fripp's playing somewhat by eliminating any catharsis. But that's quibbling. Fun in the car and ideal for tormenting neighbors, _The First Day_ will serve as a high-quality Fripp fix until the next King Crimson revival. - Jon Andrews [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: Bruford / Marotta Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 13:56:00 EST How loud is the cry for Bruford to be drumming for KC five? I will never forget the way that Fripp tore apart Bruford's drumming in 'Musician' several years ago. It changed my opinion of his drumming. (It also made me reconsider other drummers - Billy Cobham comes to mind.) I think Marotta's recent studio playing is brilliant. Maybe we can just hope that Bruford will show up a few times during live performances, particularly during the drum solo. (HINT!) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: phv at equalizer dot cray dot com (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Performing In Front Of An Audience Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 16:42:05 PST > >i'd never seen fripp live before - i was rather surprised that he sat bolt > >upright and almost entirely motionless for the duration. he was almost > >always shrouded in darkness, too, and his movements were very conservative > Actually I interpreted this as either shyness (if not outright stage > fright) or perhaps as distaste for live performance. I recall that on one > occasion (I think in Oberlin, OH - and a very small venue) he was really > getting into a solo and began to slowly rise from his stool, and then he > started and looked around sort of sheepishly as if to say 'oops, I almost > showed some emotion there' and then sank back down. I can't speak for Fripp on this matter, but I humbly offer my thoughts on the subject: I play music for the sheer joy of it. I play with other musicians also for the sheer joy of it. But when people are watching us, well, uh, I feel a little restricted sometimes. I'm not a showman. I don't have it in me to sing and dance and entertain an audience. If I'm playing with other people, I'd rather let someone else have the spotlight and thus draw the attention of the audience away from me so I can concentrate on my playing and not be distracted by all the scrutiny. I don't bring a chair to sit on, but I won't go out of my way to pump up an audience by shaking my butt or doing stupid things like licking my guitar or god forbid, setting it on fire. I guess I'm coming across like an elitist but if I'm playing live, I just want to play music and let someone else do the theatrics and showboating. -- Paolo Valladolid phv at equalizer dot cray dot com Cray Research Superservers, Inc. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mathias at tarkus dot ocis dot temple dot edu (mathias thallmayer) Subject: Pete Sinfield's "Stillusion" Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 22:10:52 EST Peter Sinfield -- "Stillusion" VP152CD c. Manticore 1973 p. Voiceprint 1993 [Total Time-50:13] Can You Forgive A Fool The Night People Will It Be You Hanging Fire A House Of Hopes And Dreams Wholefood Boogie The Piper Under The Sky Envelopes Of Yesterday The Song Of The Sea Goat Still >From the new liner notes: ...Met Ian MacDonald...Roadied, wrote and repaired for King Crimson... Went to USA and made four albums...Owned band after "Court Of" with RF ...Fell out over "musical differences" no really I promise...Produced Roxy Music...Thought if these guys can do it maybe I can...Moved to Somerset and started to write "Still" with friends and neighbors...made record which you now hold...started new album hence "Fool" and "Fire" ...But was seduced to work with ELP......My song "Heart Of Stone" sung by Cher tells all! "Travel in peace and may your god go with you." (Peter Sinfield, Abbey Road, London, October 1993) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 13:14:31 -0400 (EDT) From: terry kroetsch f Subject: Re:Levin's Roadshow Questions: Does anyone know where, when and how Tony's photo album book called Roadshow will be released? Also, did anyone enjoy Fripp's medley on Compact KC CD on Caroline? Someone asked about Three of Perfect Pair video - I can get it fairly easily but it is wrong format (?). Let me know... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 14:25:59 MST From: pmartz at dsd dot es dot com (Paul Martz) Subject: Fripp and Stravinsky After recently receiving my copy of _The Bridge Between_, I have begun to look at Fripp from a different perspective. Instead of looking at him as "master guitarist" or "rock legend", I have instead begun to see him as "composer", and indeed, one of near great propensity. _Le Sacre du Printemps_, the ballet by Igor Stravinsky, has always stood out in my mind as the single most intense piece of music I have ever heard. But now Fripp, in conjunction with Trey Gunn, rivals Stravinsky with the piece _Threnody for Souls in Torment_. It is no Stravinsky ballet, and of course it wasn't intended to be. It lacks in scope, variety, and texture. But the sheer intensity of both pieces is very similar. Stravinsky can always reach into his musical grabbag and pull out a chord so rich and full and insanely beautiful that it almost makes me cry; now Fripp and Gunn are capable of the same thing. If you do not have this album yet, get it. It is up there now on my list as one of Fripp's greatest works. -paul "Eno is the one, Eno's the one to take pmartz at dsd dot es dot com One hundred percent for your stomach's sake... Evans & Sutherland Bubbly bubbly Eno!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 22 Dec 93 08:31:40 EDT From: Didier Boclet CNRS FRANCE Subject: Thanks (for) giving This second tribute from Robert to us is probably the best gift ever made on these internet things. I'm almost a lurker to this list, as I still have a lot to get from it, and not so much to give. But I have to confess this: For nearly ten years, I kept trying blowing my alto sax on occasional crisis (never learnt music or had sax teaching) and the result was very poor. I firmly thought my only head should lead my hands to do the proper notes, and I wanted them to go as fast as possible, keeping in my mind this Bird's remark to another sax player: Sounds good, but can't you play more than one note at a time ? I'm sorry for the way I treated my sax all through theses years, I simply refused to admit few facts that Mr Fripp enlighted for us 1/ the way we play is the way we are 2/ every single note (word, action..) should be considered as "given" to the whole world, and not to the only listener/actor 3/ Silent has the same powerful value than played notes.. well may be even more powerful 4/ Discipline of hands/heart/head that can be expressed through discipline in his life [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.