Discipline #120 (as text)

17 December 1993

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 14:29:42 -0600
From: schumach at cs dot wisc dot edu (Lee Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Discipline #119
>From: richard at fss dot icl dot co dot uk (Richard Barnett)
>Subject: Re: Discipline #118
> ...
>i'd never seen fripp live before - i was rather surprised that he sat bolt
>upright and almost entirely motionless for the duration.  he was almost
>always shrouded in darkness, too, and his movements were very conservative

>overall, i suppose he radiated discipline.  i was impressed.

>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:38:00 -0500
>From: ad520 at freenet dot buffalo dot edu (Daniel M. Dumych)
>Subject: Michael Brook / Sylvian - Fripp tour
> ...
>As for the mysterious Mr. Fripp staying out of the spotlight, perhaps this
>is his way of saying that the tour does not represent his musical aims,
>i.e., "I'm glad to help out, but this is not me"?

I saw Fripp playing with King Crimson on 3 seperate occasions, and his behaviour was identical. If King Crimson isn't him, what is ?

Actually I interpreted this as either shyness (if not outright stage fright) or perhaps as distaste for live performance. I recall that on one occasion (I think in Oberlin, OH - and a very small venue) he was really getting into a solo and began to slowly rise from his stool, and then he started and looked around sort of sheepishly as if to say 'oops, I almost showed some emotion there' and then sank back down.

At all of these shows he hardly ever looked at the crowd, showed very little facial expression, and had almost no 'body language'.

The oberlin show was on the 'discipline' tour and at the end they did as a second encore a very jammed out version of 'thela hun ginjeet' (sp ?) (I guess they ran out of material, at the other show I saw on that tour they only did one encore). Afterwards the rest of the band left quickly, leaving only Fripp crossing the back of the stage very slowly; as he got to the door he turned and smiled very slightly at the crowd and then left.

At the greek theatre in berkeley (3 of a perfect pair tour), he did actually bow to the crowd, in roughly the same circumstances, except that the stage was much larger and there wasn't a door, so he bowed from *between* the 2 speaker stacks on the left side of the stage - I guess it was the darkest spot he could find.

I think that this (lack of) stage presence is a 'trademark' of his.

Has anybody out there seen the 'original' (i.e. pre-discipline) KC tour ?

Did Fripp act that way back then ?

Lee Schumacher
(schumach at cs dot wisc dot edu)

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 14:38:05 -0800
From: rpeck at pure dot com  (Ray Peck)
Subject: Discipline #119
>Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1993 13:53:21 -0600 (CST)
>From: 26H3KESSLERR at vms dot csd dot mu dot edu
>Subject: Steve Howe/Bruford
>The playing was fascinating and sometimes very beautiful.  But afterwords
>Steve was signing autographs and he mentioned he and Bruford would probably
>be touring with "The Symphonic Music of Yes" in March.  How lame.  C'mon
>B.B. get outta the past.  that doesn't mean he sould work with Crimson, but
>do something other than the "Hooked on Classics" version of "Roundabout"
>for a bunch of yes-heads.  just thought I'd get my two cents (pents) in on

I'd like to point out that Bruford's interest right now is in his Earthworks band. He's had little support from EG, his record company. The band's upcoming live album has been delayed for nearly a year by EG! He's stated that he's only doing the "replay the past" stuff like Symphonic and the Union tour for the money to support his band.

It's a shame that such a brilliant musician has to do albums he dislikes to make money to support those he loves. See Allan Holdsworth for another brilliant guy who is just scrapeing by.

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 22:22:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Scott T. Lillis" <sl4q+ at andrew dot cmu dot edu>
Subject: ToaPP Video (Japan)

Does any one know where I can mail order The Three of a Perfect Pair video from Japan(or any other videos of KC for that matter). I've seen the ToaPP video several times but I can't find a place to buy it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Scott

From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad)
Subject: Trey Gunn & CGT
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 23:30:56 EST

Has anyone heard the new California Guitar Trio and Trey Gunn CD's?

If so, can ya post a review?

aNiL pRaSaD
wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca

From: r dot dittmeier at genie dot geis dot com
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 17:15:00 BST
Subject: Discipline #119
  > From: "Mathews, Thomas J." <TJM4 at NCH08A dot EM dot CDC dot GOV>  Date: Tue, 07 Dec
  > 93 13:25:00 EST  Subject: Zappa
  >   In memory of Frank Zappa  . . . . .
  >                                                                      TJ
  > Mathews
  >  Joyce  Abma
  >   P.S.  Does anyone know if A. Belew had any recent musical crossings
  >           with F. Zappa? If his tour is still going maybe someone could
  > ask.

When Belew played Louisville on his tour, someone asked about Zappa. He'd seen FZ a couple months previously (I think). He said Zappa had lost weight and got tired easily, but was fighting and continuing to work as much as he could. He thought Zappa would be with us for quite a while longer. I don't know if this opinion was really what he thought (since it wasn't what happened), or if he just didn't want to inject a sad note into an otherwise upbeat and happy evening.

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 20:26:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Ashley <uunet!delphi.com!RAYASH>
Subject: Review of "1,000 Years"

I just got my copy of _1,000 Years_, the new CD by Stick artist Trey Gunn, now out on Discipline records.

For starters, this album has all the accoutrements of a big-budget CD release, the fancy Bill Smith graphics, the professional production, a record label that a famous guitarist records on, etc., but I don't know if this is available in any store. NO WORRIES! If you send $14.99 + 15% p&h to

Possible productions
351 Magnolia Ave,
Long Beach, CA 90802

They'll rush you a copy in a week (that's how long I had to wait, and I live in New Jersey). International orders add $5 I AM NOT GETTING PAID TO MAKE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT, I AM ONLY SAYING IT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT THIS CAN BE FOUND ANYWHERE ELSE!

Anyway, the album...

It is rather good. It is out of the ordinary for a Stick album. It doesn't abound with the characteristic Stick sounds we're all used to, it sounds like a guitar & bass record, drenched with TONS of high-end fx. I don't know how much overtracking Mr. Gunn did here, but all of the sounds except vocals and percussion emanated from his touchboard.

Other musicians on the record were Bob Muller and Pat Mastrelotto, drums, and Xan and Serpentine, voice.

As lead singer, Trey is not going to win any Grammys, but he has an decent "alternative rock" type baritone.

Listening to Trey's melodic style, it is immediately apparent that he is one of the hard core Crafties (level IX or something) and has spent a lot of time in Fripp's shadow. Just listen to the solo at the beginning of "The Screen Door and the Flower Girl" and you'd think uncle Bob was the one laying down the ultra distorted- compressed fretwork. "Into the Wood" features a repeating figure that sounds like vintage reel to reel tape deck delay - and "1,000 Years" is pure ambient Frippertronix.

His bass lines are, to say the least, heavy and repetitive. "Killing for London" has a "Darshan" like feel to it, sort of post- post modern. Some songs don't have any real "bass line". Mr. Gunn has stated that he treats the stick as a total instrument unto itself. That feeling is present here, as he doesn't always force his touchboard into conventional guitar/bass roles.

The album grew on me after three or four listenings.

In summary, this won't go down in the history books with "TV Weather" or "Parallel Galaxy" as one of the all time great Stick albums, but it does stand as a bold document of one man's quest to create sounds never before heard from a Chapman Stick. It will be interesting to see him live to see how much of this he can pull off at once, solo.

Ray Ashley

Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 14:17:25 GMT
From: Toby Howard <toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk>
Subject: From Robert Fripp: The Road to Graceland

This is the second of Robert's contributions to Discipline. Thanks Robert.


                    The Road To Graceland. 

		    by Robert Fripp

Music is a process of uniting the world of qualities and the world of
existences, of blending the world of silence and the world of sound.

In this sense, music is a way of transformation.

What we do is inseparable from how and why we do what we do.

So, the transformation of sound is inseparable from a transformation of

For example, we attract silence by being silent.

In our culture, this generally requires practice.

Practice is a way of transforming the quality of our functioning, that is,
a transformation of what we do.

We move from making unnecessary efforts, the exertions of force, to making
necessary efforts: the direction of effortlessness.

In this the prime maxim is: honor necessity, honor sufficiency.


When we consider our functioning as a musician, that is, what we do in
order to be a musician, we find we are considering more than just the
operation of our hands.

The musician has three instruments: the hands, the head and the heart, and
each has its own discipline.

So, the musician has three disciplines: the disciplines of the hands, the
head and the heart.

Ultimately, these are one discipline: discipline.

Discipline is the capacity to make a commitment in time.

If the musician is able to make a commitment in time, to guarantee that
they will honor this commitment regardless of convenience, comfort,
situation and inclination of the moment, they are on the way to becoming

An effectual musician is a trained, responsive and reliable instrument at
the service of music.


So, practice addresses:

1.  The nature of our functioning; that is, of our hands, head and heart.

2.  The co-ordination of our functioning; that is our hands with head, our
hands with heart, our heart with head, and in a perfect world, all three
together in a rare, unlikely, but possible harmony.

3.  The quality of our functioning.


It is absurd to believe that practising our instrument is separate from
the rest of our life.

If we change our practice, we change our lives.

Practice is not just what we do with our hands, nor just how we do what
we do, nor why we do what we do.

Practice is how we are.


A practice of any value will be three things:

1.  A way of developing a relationship with the instrument;

2.  A way of developing a relationship with music;

3.  A way of developing a relationship with ourselves.

So, the techniques of our musical craft are in three fields: of playing the
instrument, of music and of being a person.

I cannot play guitar without having a relationship with myself, or with

I cannot, as a guitarist, play music without having a relationship with
myself and my guitar.

And, by applying myself to the guitar and to music, I discover myself
within the application.


A technique simulates what it represents, and prepares a space for the
technique to become what it represents.

For example, the manner in which I live my life is my way of practising
to be alive.

There is no distance between how I live my life and how I practice being


Once a quality is within our experience, we recognise its return and may
allow its action to take place upon us.

But how and why it is present, or comes to visit, is rather harder to

If this quality is present with us, description becomes easier: we
describe the world in which we live.

If we live in the way of craft, the craft lives in us; as we describe
this way, the craft reveals itself through us.

Any true way will be able to describe itself through its craftspeople.


The quality we bring to one small part of our life is the
quality we bring to all the small parts of our life.

All the small parts of our life is our life.

If we are able to make one small act of quality, it wiil spread
throughout the larger act of living.

This is in the nature of a quality - a quality is ungovernable by  size
and by the rules of quantity: a quality is ungovernable my number.

So, one small act of quality is as big as one big act of quality.

An act of quality carries intention, commitment and presence, and is
never accidental.


Once we have an experience of making an effort of this kind, we may
apply this quality of effort in the other areas of our life.

The rule is: better to be present with a bad note than absent from a
good note.

When our note is true, we are surprised to find that it sounds very much
like silence, only a little louder.


If music is quality organised in sound, the musician has three
approaches towards it: through sound, through organisation, or through

The apprentice will approach the sound, the craftsperson will approach
the organisation of sound, and the master musician approaches music
through its quality.

That is, the master musician works from silence, organises
the silence, and places sound between the silence.


Where we are going is how we get there.

If where we are going is how we get there, we are where we are going.

If we are where we are going, we have nowhere to go.

If we have nowhere to go, may we be where we are.


Music is a benevolent presence constantly and readily available to

May we trust the inexpressible benevolence of the creative impulse.

Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 07:51:30 GMT
From: "Pete Cole" <pcole at uk dot oracle dot com>
Subject: Discipline

Hi folks !

Interesting quote from the Sylvian list, which is in turn quoted from a Sylvian / Fripp interview in Creem :

The adaptability that allows him [Fripp] to move from situation to situation comfortably also allows him to continue working with the members of King Crimson again. Yes, King Crimson is reuniting, with Belew and Levin returning, Jerry Marotta replacing Bruford (Fripp won't be able to work with Bruford until he's no longer with EG), and Trey Gunn making it a quintet. Actually, the group was almost revived in 1987 for the soundtrack to a film of cyberpunk SF writer William Gibson's Neuromancer--"Lanks' Tongues in Aspic" was readied-- but the movie wasn't made. Other recent Fripp appearances have been with John Wetton and British techno groups The Grid and The Orb.

Does that explain why Bruford won't be in the next Crimson - and does it leave the door open for him ?

Anybody got any ideas as to what has happened to John Wetton's album ?


Date: Thu, 16 Dec 93 15:41:23 -0800
From: David A. Craig <dac at sbphy dot physics dot ucsb dot edu>
Subject: trey gunn and CGQ

first, BUY 1000 YEARS. thank me later.

people have mentioned that trey gunn's playing at CGQ shows was unremarkable. At the bay area shows i saw i would have to say, "i disagree". anyone else who was there care to back me up (mr relph? mr peck?)? things you may have thought were fripp frequently were actually coming from mr gunn. and some of the solo piece he did were indeed, quite, remarkable. my impression ....

Mike Stok