Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1197 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1197 Sunday, 23 January 2005 Today's Topics: NEWS: Please send your ET posts to the correct address Fripp and the Weariness of Touring Bloody Sinfield - "let their be light" did my last one get tossed or lost or? ; ( video Fripp the Human 21st Century Guide to King Crimson King Crimson mentioned in Rolling Stone magazine Existance and sub divisions thereof Crim Download Available Adrian Belew 1987 flexidisk on eBay ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send *all posts* to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com ** Posts intended for the newsletter should have a subject prefix of ETPOST ** Posts intended for an individual newsletter contributor should have a subject prefix of their ET 'Ticket Number', shown at ETxxxxx in their 'From:' line in the newsletter. To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Mike Dickson (ET Newsletter distribution/subscriptions) Nadim S. Haque (ET Webmaster) Toby Howard (ET founder and Newsletter Moderator) Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster Emeritus) The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:11:21 -0500 From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: NEWS: Please send your ET posts to the correct address Hi everyone, just a reminder to please send your ET posts to: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Posts sent TO ANY OTHER ADDRESS will not get into ET, and more than likely will never be seen at all by the ET Moderator, or anyone else. Cheers Toby [ET Moderator] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:11:21 -0500 From: sallak Subject: Fripp and the Weariness of Touring All, Like several people whose posts I've read here on ET, I'm saddened by Robert Fripp's dropping-of-large-hints that his days of touring or live public performance might be over. I'm certainly an enthusiast, and would like to see him perform live again, by himself or under the aegis of a group. I recently gave a recital at my university (I'm currently a percussion professor at a university school of music), and went to unwind at a bar afterwards. My friends and I ended up at a local establishment with karaoke, which triggered several thoughts about music and our society (well, at least my little part of American society): 1) So many people who are enthusiastic about music seem to be so enthused because it moves in them a spirit that does not manifest itself through concentrated, active-yet-quiet listening. The visceral response of rock-and-roll (which Mr. Fripp has mentioned was part of what attracted him to the genre) can't help but sometimes manifest itself in, what may be at times, noisy physicality. 2) Why ever do people feel the need to shout specific things at the stage at a rock show? I don't think it's because they're evil, but because the live rock concert is most often billed as something where you're not supposed to merely go and listen-- so much so that we refer to "going to go see" concerts rather than going to "hear" things. And given the prevalence of television, and the fact that, given many people's distance from the stage, it may often seem like a giant 3D TV show, so who's hurt if you talk some? Why not shout at the stage? (I do have to say that some shouting of specific things at specific performers in an attempt to get their attention-- unsolicited song requests, etc.-- are rude, desperate, and sad. Is it an overextension of the ego-- "If I make a request and they play it, do I have the power to influence the course of the show? Will you be able to hear me on the live album?" I'm not sure.) 3) Rock music has always meant stardom, so perhaps a spectator's participation, welcome or unwelcome, in the process of rock music could be an attempt to momentarily be a star. (Karaoke accomplishes exactly that-- a mic, a spotlight, and boisterous applause in response to your "show".) Has Mr. Fripp considered venues where a quiet, concentrated audience can be more reasonably expected? Has he considered, as an example, residencies at university schools of music or performing arts establishments? I can think of any number of institutions where classical guitar students might be interested in NST and flat-pick technique. Certainly there are numerous electronic music studios where real-time electro-acoustic performances such as Soundscapes would be welcomed by students and faculty. And venues where a more "classical" audience mindset is the norm will, in all likelihood, result in quiet attention and focus. It's possible that some would read this post and assume that I don't like rock music, or that I feel that it is somewhat inferior. That is not the case-- I enjoy both equally, but they have different purposes for me. (For example, I can't listen to Bach in my car. It just doesn't work.) It seems obvious, though, that Mr. Fripp's needs are not being met by live "rock" performance. If you're reading this, Mr. Fripp, thanks very much for the music. If this is an unwelcome intrusion, my apologies. Comments not suited for the list may be sent to sallak at uakron dot edu. Best to all, Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:59:51 -0500 From: drg55 Subject: Bloody Sinfield - "let their be light" Can anybody decode for me "Let their be light" from Ian McDoanld's "Drivers Eyes"? Last year it was I think that somebody explained to me what "stake a lizard by the throat" meant, (its magic) and it opened up a world of meaning. There I was a naive hippy all those years ago enjoying somebody elses illusions, (OK I was getting stoned, but I have been long since drug free) now I see far more value in the work of KC. I think it was an on-the-road tension that led to Sinfield's departure and with no disrespect to Robert I don't think he gave him full credit for his contribution to the band. The remarkable think about KC is the talent of all concerned. I think Sinfield contributed the concept and then Robert, Ian etc added their genius to the musical reality. By the by "Tiger in a spotlight" by Sinfield/ELP is also one of my favourites. As a fan I would rate Islands as the penultimate KC product, in terms of artistic creation. There is a good website which explains the links to Ulyses by James Joyce. http://www.songsouponsea.com/Promenade/IslandsI.html It may not be all strictly accurate but it is interesting, and this raises the general issue of whether artists should interpret their work or let it stand, I think it doesn't always pay to be too enigmatic, or too prescriptive, somewhere in between. If it is art it will probably mean different things to different people. As a result of following up the 21St Century Schizoid Band, I am very glad I subsequently purchased Ian's "Drivers Eyes". This is a really great album that grows on me each time I play it, a real musos album. I am not all that great on the mix, there appears to be a wall of sound, and there are not enough solo's. I would have loved to hear more of Frampton in the lead, although he does a flawless job in the background on "If I was" Ian himself does fantastic sax and flute contributions on "Sax Fifth Avenue" and "Forever and ever" but it is almost drowned out by the chordal wall of noise. As the chords are a repetitive pattern this is surely wrong. At first I thought the instrumentals were rather bland, but with playing they are full of variety and speak for themselves with interesting chord changes. The whole product is very slick. Now what the hell is that bloody Sinfield getting at in this song? David from downunder. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:29:05 -0600 From: Paul MacFarlane Subject: did my last one get tossed or lost or? ; ( Farewell O Gigster... Death brings an end to visible form and action. Recordings, technology and the planet's resources allow endless reproduction of that which was. Mind allows remembrance and further accumulation of the past. Retirement points squarely at us. Working can perhaps become playing again. This Audient wishes to say a simple "Thank you O Gigster." You are free. I have let go of you. I need nothing more. But may I add, it has been very, very, very nice to be living at the same time as You. Paul MacFarlane Professional Human Being t h e 1 . 0 5 e x p e r i m e n t 2054 King Arthur Court St. Louis, Missouri 63146 voice: 314 579.0300 my personal wireless number: 314 398.1453 www.the1101experiment.org my favorite song this week: "Je Ne Regrette Rien" by Edith Piaf my favorite film of the week: "Amelie" (again and again and again) my favorite food of this week: chocolate soy milk my favorite word of this week: satori my favorite moment so far this week: watching Krishnamurti discussing the so-called purpose of education on DVD with Dr. Allan W. Anderson in 1974 while Cooper watched from the second floor, smiling and nodding his head in passionate agreement. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:34:53 -0800 (PST) From: MARY ORTIZ Subject: video Please advise me on any video availble comercially of KC in concert during the early years. Anything with John Wetton, David Cross, Bill Bruford and Robert Fripp. I have recent videoes but am very interested in early KC music. I am a long time fan and have seen KC live on two occasions and it was a great experience. A long time fan Eusebio Ortiz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 12:17:44 -0600 From: J F Lehman Subject: Fripp the Human Hullo, all, Okay. So I've been reading Robert's diary for a while--not religiously or anything, mind you, but I do try to check in a few times each week. And I've recently begun perusing the ET archives; here, I must admit to some slowness, because I've been scouring the ET site for "message boards," only recently getting it through my chubby head that this is a fully moderated site and that you do not do your own posting to it, but rather heave stuff off to the nifty admins, who decide whether or not to bother the rest of the ET community with it. All right, got it now. Anyway. One thing I'm struck by are all the people who've made diamonds out of their undies over the fact that Robert isn't Mr. Handshaker and CD-Signer in person, preferring instead to dismiss, rebuff, ignore, or flee from people who attempt to coerce him into being that person. The thing that prompted this submission was the fellow who said that Robert was ruining the whole star/fan relationship by posting to ET, and how awful that was. And I'm sayin' to myself, "Self, these people just don't get it." So I'm going to use the lyrics of another band--a prog-rock band, at that!--to try to explain what I see here: Living in a fisheye lens Caught in the camera eye I have no heart to lie I can't pretend a stranger Is a long-awaited friend Living in the Limelight The universal dream for those who wish to seem Those who wish to be Must put aside the alienation and get on with the fascination The real relation The underlying theme Folks, it's as plain as the big nose on my nondescript face that Robert Fripp has no desire whatsoever to SEEM. He's also not a poseur, and is not by nature egragarious and socializing. So if you see him out in public, he regards himself as a civillian who is on his own time at that moment, and behaves as such, in accord with his natural personality. Get a half-dozen of your friends together, the next time you're out, and pick a non-famous person to descend upon unannounced, acting like you're fans of that person; make sure it's not "the life of the party," either. Watch the reaction. They too, will back away, most unhappy with the unwanted attention. Be sure to buy them a drink--a nice one, no 'bar brands'!--for the trouble, and explain what you're up to, if you're not going to content yourself with making this a thought-experiment, which I actually recommend for those of you with intelligence measured in positive integers. His posting to ET seems to be like his diary, in that it is absolutely intended to destroy the whole celebrity paradigm. From where I'm standing, all Robert really appears to ask of life is that there are people who appreciate his music and that he can pay all his bills, with maybe something left over to give to those less fortunate. He doesn't want to be your hero, or your god, or your reason for living or even your reason for playing, listening to or otherwise being involved in music. And he doesn't want to be your instant buddy, either, because he doesn't know you. He just wants to be Robert Fripp, human. He loves being able to play music for people who want to hear it. He loves playing for an audience that's come to hear music. He hates the whole celebrity shtick, as it interferes with the true essence of music. He hates being interrupted with flashbulbs, and pinned like a butterfly on a board with microphones. He hates being treated like he, Robert Fripp, is a can of soup sitting on the grocery store shelf, and is adamant about refusing to play that role, for anyone. He's trying to communicate something very precious, if only his fellow humans could be still within themselves, and attentive, for long enough to perceive it. When he is at a "meet and greet" he considers himself "at work" and so the people who've met him under those circumstances report his being open and communicative. When he's on his own time he expects the same thing everyone else takes for granted: to be left alone to be a human being. At least, this is my impression of the situation. However, I've been known to be full of shit before, so this could easily be one of those times. Be well, all, John Lehman Memphis, TN ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:48:17 EST From: Stamperdanny Subject: 21st Century Guide to King Crimson Instrumental versions of In the Wake of Poseidon, and Islands...Why?!? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:33:12 -0500 From: Mike Subject: King Crimson mentioned in Rolling Stone magazine Hello Crimfanatics, King Crimson is mentioned in Rolling Stone magazine, issue 966-January 27. 2005, in a short review for the 21st Century Guide To King Crimson, and here is that review.... King Crimson**** The 21st Century Guide To King Crimson (Volume One 1969-1974) Four discs of the prog giants' breathtaking first decade On December 7th, 1969, drummer Michael Giles and multi-instrumentalist Ian McDonald quit King Crimson, less than a year after the birth of the group and just two months after the release of its landmark debut, In The Court Of The Crimson King. "My stomach disappeared," guitarist Robert Fripp writes in the timeline accompanying this set. "King Crimson was everything to me." It still is. Fripp has navigated Britian's greatest art-rock band through thirty-six years of personnel dramas and forward march. Incredibly, this deluxe primer, two CDs each of studio lightning and live thunder, compiled with the novice in mind, covers only the first half-decade. (Volume Two will deal with the rest) More remarkable, Crimson's singular union of power, passion and intellect never flags despite the comings, goings and severe turns in direction. The whole of In The Court, with its oceanic winds of Mellotron, and the bulk of the 1974 avant-noir classic Red bookend the studio discs like estranged twins. Made by entirely different lineups, both albums nevertheless epitomize Crimson's, and Fripp's dedication to searching, transportive excellence. The concert tapes affirm that with a blowtorch vengeance. Proof that math rock can kill; Fripp's lethal guitar solos in the mutiple readings, from 1969, 1972 and 1974, of "21st Century Schizoid Man." David Fricke KEY TRACK: "21st Century Schizoid Man" Cheers, Mike http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ALLTHINGSCRIM/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:30:54 -0000 From: Steve Reynolds Subject: Existance and sub divisions thereof At last irrefutable evidence of Mr. Fripp's insidious influence, over others. Not just content with controlling his environment; audio, visual and the fragrances and aroma's that surround him, that was just the start! I am convinced he has gained control over an ex Band member of KC, how, I'm not sure. We are all aware of his criticisms of BB and the inspired invasion of 'his' time incident whilst they played together. This has obviously scarred BB for life, as I believe he is so upset by the barb', he is now selling a clock with his bands logo on it! Now I'm really worried, what happens if you have the Schiziod clock (KC) in the same room as the BB Earthworks clock, will there be a clash of times? Will the little hands get up and leave the mantlepiece in high dudgeon? Or will the Earthworks clock be ousted from my front room? We must all write to BB, in 9/8, and reassure him that his time is okay and not to fall for the 'grimcrackery' of Mr Fripp. The Audio Ardent ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:18:55 -0500 From: Josh Chasin Subject: Crim Download Available If the phrases "bittorent" and "FLAC" aren't foreign to you, this link might prove interesting: http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=3D23813 Its to a link to a bittorrent of a recording of a 58-minute Dutch FM radio broadcast of Crim, 2003 model, and it sounds great. One can argue the ethics pro and con of circulating so-called bootlegs, but I've always been of the opinion that if it was on the radio, its fair game. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:11:21 -0500 From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: Adrian Belew 1987 flexidisk on eBay Hi folks I have an Adrian Belew item up on eBay, thought some people might be interested (apologies if not): http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=70008&item=4069352047 Cheers Toby ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1197 *********************************