Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1194 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1194 Tuesday, 7 December 2004 Today's Topics: Re: Level 5 - what's in a name? Downloads for dineros Benjamin Franklin comments on King Crimson Americanus Butheadus NST Re: South Bank Soundscapes Adam Jones and Robert Fripp?? harmonic mysteries... Klaus Schulze & Robert Fripp VST Frippertronics Posts lyrics Bjork and Fripp and Mojo interview and David Sylvian king crimson tea Good Evening Hippies New Standard Tuning Blog NST www.tonylevin.com ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send *all posts* to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com ** Posts intended for the newsletter should have a subject prefix of ETPOST ** Posts intended for an individual newsletter contributor should have a subject prefix of their ET 'Ticket Number', shown at ETxxxxx in their 'From:' line in the newsletter. To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Mike Dickson (ET Newsletter distribution/subscriptions) Nadim S. Haque (ET Webmaster) Toby Howard (ET founder and Newsletter Moderator) Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster Emeritus) The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 03:49:37 -0600 From: Nadim S. Haque Subject: Re: Level 5 - what's in a name? In ET 1193, David Kirkdorffer wrote: >> LEVEL 5; the biblical number for grace Hmm... As a software engineer, I always thought of "Level 5"'s title as a perfect coincidence with IEEE's Capability Maturity Model, in which "5" is the highest level a software production organization can achieve, with the most organized work flows and constant monitoring and adjusting of work processes in order to keep improving. But then again, I'm a computer nut. :) As long as "Level 5" means something to you when you listen to it, it'll make perfect sense, and the piece achieved its mission, I think. Cheers! Nadim ---------- Nadim S. Haque PC Lab Coordinator, Illinois Institute of Technology, Office of Technolog= y=20 Services Director, Sliced Suitcase Webmaster, Elephant Talk 312.404.1814 www.slicedsuitcase.com =BBWell of course I'd like to sit around and chat. Well of course I'd like to stay and chew the fat.=AB --Radiohead=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:16:26 -0700 From: "Bruce Codere" Subject: Downloads for dineros Greetings, This is nothing new, however it might be something worth exploring. I used to be an audiophile and sterophile. The speakers hooked up to my computer cost about 56 times less than the 801's I still have. The bang for the buck of this little 4.1 setup is mind boggling. I don't know why I keep the 801's except for bragging rights. I have all original early KC albums on Japanese vinyl. The sound quality of the mp3 verions of these albums is perfectly adequate. I'm at the stage where I see no reason to have to spend 15 to 30 dollars Cdn for any album. I have no idea what a CD must sell for it to earn a living for the artists who made it, but if it has to be 15 to 30 dollars Cdn, they're ripping me off. I return the favour with free downloads. When I think an album is worth a few bucks, I add it to my list of one's I'll paypal for or somesuch when I can afford to. So what is the artist's cut? How about letting us download albums otherwise ripped off for that amount? Eliminate the record company. No jewel case costs, no label costs, no distribution costs, etc... A download is of a product that is record once, sell often. It's either that or have it shared for free. Why not cash in? Respectfully, Bruce Codere --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.805 / Virus Database: 547 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:32:31 -0800 (PST) From: John Smith Subject: Benjamin Franklin comments on King Crimson I have been reading Sid Smith's book 'In The Court Of King Crimson' and was struck by how fitting a quote from Ben Frankiln was concerning group performance towards a single product, and how it relates to the various incarnations of KC and the trials and tribulations of crafting music. "For when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men, all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views. From such an assembly can a perfect production be expected? It therefore astonishes me to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does; and I think it will astonish our enemies, who are waiting with confidence to hear that our councils are confounded like those of the Builders of Babel. Thus I consent to this Constitution because I expect no better, and because I am not sure, that it is not the best. The opinions I have of its errors, I sacrifice to the public good." John Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:14:32 +0000 From: Alan Gent Subject: Americanus Butheadus Michael, you have our DEEPEST sympathy..... Alan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:03:17 -0000 From: Brian Parker Subject: NST The explanations have all been excellent and thanks to all for contributing, and especially to Gary Ormond for bravely raising it. Reading those have posed a few further, probably irredeemably dumb, follow-up questions from me: OK. Stated as being CGDAEG. Is that up to C from E or down ? Likewise all others ? (OK I know 3rd is D already....;)) That is one hell of a long way from E to C......, likewise from A to G. Please elucidate guys. Then there's talk about how playing (say) an Emaj chord has to be changed because of the tuning. Obvious really, but like, if an Emaj is E,B,E,G#,B,E does one have to follow the convention of the standard tuning (e.g. 3 Es, 2Bs and G#) ? Or what, exactly is the trick ? I want to do this, but not enough of a technical musician to fully understand - I can sympathise with the reported bootee from Guitar Craft for working out the chord shapes (I'd have asked for a copy....). Brian Parker You should not have to pay for your mistakes in blood. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:45:55 -0000 From: Lee Fletcher Subject: Re: South Bank Soundscapes The South Bank soundcapes were indeed recorded, and originally planned for release as 'volume two' of a multi-disc Gates Of Paradise boxed set, which sadly never happened... One track, entitled Sometimes God Hides, did make it onto the 1996 DGM compilation of the same name, and later appeared on the revised single CD version of The Gates Of Paradise. Hopefully a larger selection will be made available at some point in the future. Regards, Lee Fletcher > Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:13:38 -0500 > From: David Kirkdorffer > Subject: South Bank Soundscapes -- March 1996 > > Turning on the "way-back" machine........ cast your mind back to 7-10 > March 1996...London, UK, South Bank..Remember when "ambient" music seemed > new and fresh and Fripp's soundscapes poured out emotion so rich or > powerfully large... > > I'm curious, does anyone know if these 3-hour sessions were recorded and > if so, might they one day be released. > > David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:15:09 -0600 From: "Gustav, John Ohrn" Subject: Adam Jones and Robert Fripp?? I read RF's diary, and read that he is recording with Adam Jones (of Tool). But I cannot find any other information about the recording seesions! WHat exactly are they workign on? Is Adam just doing guitarwork for new Fripp or Crimson material? Or is Fripp doing guitarwork on or producing Tool's new album?! What the?! -John -- - john ohrn - longdarkblues@ gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:59:55 -0500 From: David Beardsley Subject: harmonic mysteries... David Snyder writes: "One unobvious fact: two NST guitars in close proximity will resonate with each other (the perfect 5th is the 1st harmonic)" Not it isn't. The third harmonic is close to the Perfect 5th. The 2nd harmonic is twice the frequency of the 1st. Errol Tout writes: "You are presumably aware that using 5ths between strings is an idea that violins, cellos and double basses have employed for some time." Double basses are tuned in 4ths. -- * David Beardsley * microtonal guitar * http://biink.com/db ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:29:39 -0800 (PST) From: Edgar Kausel E. Subject: Klaus Schulze & Robert Fripp Good evening happy hippies, I found on "limewire", 2 cuts I did not know of their existence: Klaus Schulze & Robert Fripp: "The Looper Is Not A Hooker" Klaus Schulze & Robert Fripp: "Neuronengesang" I didn't find any trace of this even in John Relph's Fripp discography. Is this just a joke for us? (I'm just turning a big Schulze fan) Eddie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:25:18 -0800 (PST) From: Jorge Antonio Gonzalez Fortuna Subject: VST Frippertronics Hello This might be of interest; it is a free plugin: ELOTTRONIX XL VST plugin which emulates the famous Robert Fripp's effect called "Frippertronics": two Revox B-77 making a continuous loop. This enhanced version adds many new features: 80 seconds maximum=20 delay, Delay and LFO Pan now syncable to host, Biquad X filters, Tape noise generator... http://www.uv.es/~ruizcan/principal.htm Jorge Antonio Gonz=E1lez Fortuna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:49:30 EST From: RLTOWLER Subject: Posts Blackmore's Night -Christmas Eve -just thought I'd drop a line. I was feeling a little holiday-ish and I came across the Video Blackmore's Night. "Christmas Eve" A nice warm tune with an old English feel. Nice stuff. (I don't listen to Thrak Attack all day Long) ps Brufford's Earthworks is in NYC this week coming up. (yah!!!) Bob T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:16:31 -0600 From: upwords Subject: lyrics I was surfing the wide web for the complete lyrics of Crim tunes and could only find lyrics up to thrak. I am curious to discover the words Belew speaks in such songs as The Construktion of Light and latter compositions such as this. If anyone knows of a site that includes lyrics to these later albums up to the present I would be very much appreciative. Also, I remember reading somewhere something about a lyric book that was released. Does anyone know where I might be able to purchase it? -Jim boy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:00:10 -0000 From: Orn_Orrason Subject: Bjork and Fripp and Mojo interview and David Sylvian Hi there I wrote some years ago about the dream combo of Bjork and Fripp. Fripp responded in his diary that he would be more than delighted if the phone would ring with her at the other end. Bjork is now interviewed in the Mojo music magazine and she is asked to name here favorite guitarists. She says that that are only 3 important guitarists (I don't have the exact wording) and that is Zappa , Fripp and Gudlaugur Ottarsson of Kukl (former Bjorks band) and Theyr (works in both music and experimental physics see www.islandia.is/gko). I am sure this collaboration will happen sooner or later as it seems bound to happen. I was glad to hear that Fripp and David Sylvian have met again. I thought that David didn't like his last contribution on the First Day. For me it's one of Fripps best work. The beginning to Darshan is for example so bloody good that I can listen to it over and over. =D6rn Orrason orno at ogvodafone dot is VP of Networks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 23:03:34 -0500 From: m.k. smith Subject: king crimson tea my brother discovered a strange tea the other day in a Chicago bagel shop. it is manufactured by one of those "socialist"* herbal tea/coffee companies, Intelligentsia, and it is called King Crimson! "Organic King Crimson's bright scarlet infusion is the inspiration for its name. An herbal blend of hibiscus, rosehips, licorice root, and lemongrass combined with natural orange and tangerine flavors makes this magical mixture..." there is no mention of THE King Crimson at their site, but somehow i find it difficult to believe that its scarlet infusion is the sole source of the name's origin. Kind of pricey at $10 per 2.5 ounces. Maybe the DGM shop would like to pick this one up? * (just kidding; they certainly aren't giving it away at that price, so i doubt they are socialists.) http://intelligentsiacoffee.com/store/tea/herbal/king m.k. smith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:48:01 -0500 From: Peter Key Subject: Good Evening Hippies --Apple-Mail-12--599570009 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed According to =93Posting ET-Tiquette,=94 =93We have no flames on ET. Really? What do you call the posts that have resulted from someone a few issues back beginning his post with =93Good Evening Hippies? They''re better suited to talk radio than Elephant Talk, which is supposed to be a forum for a relatively polite and reasoned discussion of all things Crimson, not for a rude and ignorant discourse on politics in the U.S. I92d rather read posts from respectful audients who were vomited on by Robert Fripp. Additionally, although I don92t have access to the poster92s mind, I doubt very much that he meant to imply by his salutation that everyone who reads E.T. is or was a hippie. He was simply repeating a greeting used Fripp himself on one of the numerous concerts of the 9273-9274 band that have been issued on CD. Peter Key ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 01:10:48 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Chernoff Subject: New Standard Tuning Blog Hello everyone, this is my first post to ET - though I have been lurking around for a while. I've recently started using NST, and have found a troubling lack of documentation on the internet about it. Unfortunately, not all of us have the privlidge of being near a guitar craft workshop and are still curious about this tuning, I know I was. To help remedy this problem I have started a blog at http://paulnst.blogspot.com/ to help record and document my experiences, wether good or bad, with this tuning. Please check in, leave some tips and advice, and hopefully learn somthing. -Paul Chernoff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 00:33:04 -0500 From: Glenn H Subject: NST Hello, I'll preface my response to Gary Ormond's post, by saying that before I came in contact with Guitar Craft, I'd been playing guitar in "old standard tuning" for over 20 years. On my way to my first GC course, I thought that perhaps I'd keep an guitar tuned in NST around as a novelty. As it turns out, I have spent the last four years playing exclusively in NST. NST Advantages: 1) It requires a new beginning of the guitarist acquainted with the old tuning system. 2) Has a larger, more 'orchestral' range, and therefore better suited to ensemble playing. 3) Is more uniform. The minor third between the 1st and 2nd strings is less disruptive than the Major third between the 2nd and 3rd strings in the old tuning. This allows for easier relocation of chord forms and scale patterns. Uniformity helps in learning the fretboard. 4) Sits more naturally in C Major than old standard tuning. This can also help in learning the fretboard. 5) The fifth is a more fundamental interval than the fourth. Its easier to think about harmonic structure on an instrument tuned in fifths. An instrument tuned in fifths has more kinship to the harmonic series, and is therefor more sonorous. 6) Makes it easier to play larger intervals. This tends to make pieces composed in NST have a little more 'surprise' in them. 7) Has a great kinship with other orchestral string instruments. Cello + NST = big fun. Disadvantages: 1) In general, it is not as good for 5 or 6 string chords and 'open' chords. Fully voiced 9th chords are difficult to assemble. This is not the tuning for sitting around the campfire and singing Beatles songs. 2) Difficult to play in many of the standard guitar idioms. The standard rock and roll/blues licks that we all know and love (or loath, depending) are not what fall easily under the fingers. However, NST has its own voice. 3) Playing scales horizontally across the neck involves a stretch that can be a challenge to some players. It should be noted though that this is no worse than the stretch that cellists accommodate. 4) The low C string suffers from poor intonation on most guitars. 5) It can be isolating. You can't take lessons from the vast majority of guitar instructors in the world. You can't read most available tab. In short, it cuts you off from many of the existing resources for the guitarist. (Ah the nefarious plot becomes clear: The isolated Crafty will need to come back again and again to the Company Store for lessons, strings and picks. [Cue sinister laughter]) Actually, now that I think about it, not being able to take lessons from most guitar instructors is probably a benefit. Best wishes Glenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:15:20 +0000 From: jliss Subject: www.tonylevin.com Tony has posted a moving and tastefully unsentimental piece on his site about his father, who recently passed. I was lucky enough to meet his parents at the WOMAD show in 1994 at Great Woods. Their friendliness and energy were indeed remarkable. They were very kind to my friends and me, who were shyly hanging around backstage hoping for a glimpse of our musical heroes, but instead got something better: the opportunity to chat with them for a while. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1194 *********************************