Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1193 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1193 Tuesday, 30 November 2004 Today's Topics: A Comment on Guitar Craft 1985 GC tuning Fripp & Eno / Frippertronics Live Website Books mentioned by RF in his Diary Re: new standard tuning Re: new standard tuning a correction South Bank Soundscapes -- March 1996 Americanus Buttheadus NST and Mr. Ormond Re: New Standard Tuning re. Toby's eBay sales Neal and Jack and Me in Spain answer to ET04722 Re: Socialists and ET P.J. Crook Socialists and ET New standard tuning ProjeKct Three track: Masque 3 Re: new standard tuning Re: new standard tuning Socialsists and ET Re: What Guide to King Crimson? Tab Request Level 5 - what's in a name? Starless live lyrics....help..... anyone? respond to: "bgeorge5 at netzero dot net" New Adrian Belew Interview on Innerviews ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send *all posts* to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com ** Posts intended for the newsletter should have a subject prefix of ETPOST ** Posts intended for an individual newsletter contributor should have a subject prefix of their ET 'Ticket Number', shown at ETxxxxx in their 'From:' line in the newsletter. 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If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:39:33 -0500 From: poorbob Subject: A Comment on Guitar Craft 1985 Dear ETer's I have just recently 'discovered' ET on the world wide web and although I'm not one for social commentary I would like to take a minute and share with fellow ETer's my brief week at the very first Guitar Craft in October of 1985 ( I think it was the first ). I have many wonderful photos from that week and with them many wonderful memories. I can remember forming a trio with Toya ( she wasn't Mrs. Fripp yet !) and performing, in the 'new standard tuning'," Baby's on Fire' at the local pub much to Robert's agony. I particularly enjoyed slugging down the home brewed beers late at night when Robert might occasionally let his guard down, so to speak. I can honestly tell everyone that Robert Fripp and that week at Claymont with my fellow students changed my life and will always stay close to my heart. Peace, R.L. Sushko ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:50:18 +0800 From: Errol Tout Subject: GC tuning Gary Ormond openly questions the Guitar Craft tuning system and I feel he is surely welcome to. I hope no-one bags him for his questions. I get the sense he is asking 'why bother? The old tuning is fine - if it ain't broke don't fix it!' In response to Gary's posting, I would like to offer my observations to using GC tuning - these are intended as helpful comments and not discounting his questions as ill-considered. 1 I find the lows are lower, the highs are higher and the mids are nicer. 2 You are presumably aware that using 5ths between strings is an idea that violins, cellos and double basses have employed for some time. My wife [a professional orchestral violinist who I have quoted before in elephant talk] adamantly says 'why on Earth would you do it any other way?'. She finds the old tuning dumb and not very musical. 3 yes - chord shapes you have used before become redundant. If you wish to play old chords stay with the old tuning 4 for people like me it is healthy to not rely on 'old licks' that I already know. The GC tuning will not allow you to, which forces me to come up with things I would not have before, and I have had some good outcomes because of this 5 I personally find I can get where I want to get to on the finger-board easier once I have though about it. I find the 5ths help 6 It has been said that using 5ths is more organic 7 I do find the extra tension of the strings tuned higher a 'challenge' with acoustic strings as they are [for me] slightly harder to hold down 8 Its brilliant for composing ensemble pieces for the guitar 9 For some bizarre reason - when you first start using the tuning you often break 1st strings. When you get a little more used to it this appears to stop. 10 You need an instrument with a good neck as some do not like the extra tension in the 1st and 2nd strings. I would not advise it for some classical guitars for instance. I am not an expert, but this is what I found in my adventures. I do not use GC tuning exclusively as I still enjoy DADGAD for instance and if I want to play 'Wish you were here' I will use the old tuning. That's major 'dag alert' I realize so you will probably discount everything I have just said. Best wishes to all Errol H. Tout ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:37:25 -0500 From: Microbunny Subject: Fripp & Eno / Frippertronics Live Website Please visit a newly created website, which is dedicated to the appreciation of the brief and now very mysterious Fripp & Eno 1975 European Tour and the great 1979 Frippertronics World Tour. http://home.cogeco.ca/~frippertronics/Frippertronics.htm It truly comes from a good place. Totally non-profit with no money exchanging hands and created solely for the appreciation of the music and the artists involved. Anyone with anything to contribute...please do ! Visit often as it is constantly being updated. To all fellow fans....ENJOY ! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:51:45 -0000 From: Antonio_Cebola Subject: Books mentioned by RF in his Diary Hi! Some time ago I came across a website that was keeping track of all the books RF mentioned in his diary. Anybody knows the URL of this site? Somehow I lost it. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:24:29 -0700 From: Subject: Re: new standard tuning To Gary Ormond, hopefully this is a helpful response: > Now, I don't know if this has been discussed a million times before and the > FAQ was sadly of no help in clarifying this, so here is my post. I am > curious as to the point behind "new standard tuning" (as I believe it is > called). I have been playing guitar for almost 20 years and have always > used the traditional 4ths tuning with only two notable exceptions; Ah, the key word here is "traditional". In my opinion, NST represents a break with "tradition". > Now, if I have this tuning right, I am totally baffled as to the point of > using it. The guitar WORKS in fourths it does NOT work in fifths! Certainly it "works" in fourths. But, "any" tuning works as well, it just changes what you can do with the instrument. When I first heard of NST I couldn't wait to try it out. I, too, wondered what the point was. I can't say that I've stuck with the tuning (mostly because guitar is not my main instrument) but I certainly learned a few things (such as the need to use a lighter gauge of string on the higher pitched strings lest a 'D' string pop in a most unpleasant way). Here's a couple of useful things I learned: 1) As with any alternate tuning, voicing chords requires different fingerings. NST is so different that is leads to very, very different chord voicings from the traditional tuning. Why does this matter? Try it sometime. In NST chart out a C-chord and find one that you can play. It will have a different flavor from a traditional chord. If you have two guitars in a band, there is nothing quite as boring as both playing the same exact chord form (assuming no effects). It will always sound more interesting to have one play an open chord and the other play a bar chord (for instance). In the same way, if you have two guitars, one tuned normally and one tuned to NST, they cannot play the same chords -- it's physically impossible. 2) With NST, the guitar essentially becomes a new instrument. Yes, scales, arpeggios, chords, all must be approached in a different way. But, as with all instruments, how they are setup (or built) determines what is easy and what is hard and will guide the hands and musical creativity in certain directions. I found that playing in NST led me to entirely different chord progressions and melodic lines compared to what my hands were used to playing in a traditional tuning. Interestingly, working in fifths will be no surprise to violin players (as I was early in my youth). You have to admit that fifths work there just fine. You are right that you really have to stretch to work with NST. Actually, this has led me to watch Mr. Fripp's playing much more closely. His hands don't look all that much bigger than normal and also plays with a very compact hand position and does not seem to shift a huge amount while playing. I still can't figure out how he makes it look so easy, but then, that's always the case when watching a real pro. > I just cannot understand the value of the exercise and wonder deep down > whether it is in fact Mr Fripp's intension to simple take a lot of > promising guitarists and totally destroy their technique and playing > style as part of some neo-zen experiment into the deconstruction of the > instrument while getting paid to do so. The value? Incredible music and new musical expression. That's what I hear from King Crimson and I'm sure NST is but one example of working outside the "established" norm to take music where it's never been before. I have to say though, that the switch to NST cannot be as much as an upheaval to a guitarist as it would be for say, a traditional bass player to switch to the Warr guitar that Trey Gunn uses (upside down bass strings!!!), or, for a drummer to play the "drumitar" (check out Future Man that plays with Bela Fleck and the Flecktones). > The alternative is that I know next to nothing about guitar and should > either start learning again or quit altogether. This is cannot accept. No matter how much you know, you can always learn more and your music will be the better for it. By the way, you might be interested to note that my point of view comes from one who does scientific research for a living. The source of my long time love of King Crimson comes from the recognition of them as the leading R&D (research and development) force in the music industry. I place NST as just one of the many new techniques they've used over the years. --Marc (ex-lurker as of this post) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:05:11 -0700 (MST) From: Chris Heckman Subject: Re: new standard tuning Gary Ormond wrote: > I am curious as to the point behind "new standard tuning" This is discussed in Eric Tamm's book about Fripp (_Robert Fripp: From King Crimson to Crafty Master_), in the section where Tamm takes part in a Guitar Craft course. (Fripp has called this the most realistic part of the book.) The idea was to introduce a new tuning that would "equalize" the players, so that people who had played EADGBE all their life wouldn't have an advantage over someone who had only played a few years. In fact, the new standard tuning (you got it right, btw: CGDAEG; if you want to try it, you should use a light-gauge string for the high G) was a closely-guarded secret in Guitar Craft for a long time, and Fripp kicked out someone who had figured out what the chord shapes looked like in the new standard tuning and had distributed copies to people in Guitar Craft. Tamm has a website which includes the full text of his book, in case you want to read more about one of the first inside looks at Guitar Craft; it's at http://www.erictamm.com/tammfripp.html . New tunings help if you want to get out of the rut of using EADGBE or its close variants. This helps until you figure out what's going on, at least according to Peter Buck. > Now, if I have this tuning right, I am totally baffled as to the point of > using it. The guitar WORKS in fourths it does NOT work in fifths! > Consider; diatonic scales and modes work perfectly Which is actually the point. KC used scales other than the diatonic, and with a new tuning, it's easier to discover these new scales. There must be some value in the new standard tuning, since Fripp has used it for 25 years, at least. A natural question to ask, considering that "the guitar works in fourths", is whether you've worked with quartal harmony (music theory based on fourths not thirds)? Check out FZ's "Inca Roads" and ELP's "Eruption" (from "Tarkus"), to name two examples in the "rock" genre. -- Christopher "HeKcman" P.S. > I have been playing guitar for almost 20 years and have always used the > traditional 4ths tuning with only two notable exceptions; 1, drop bass D > and 2, F# on string 3. The second one is the standard tuning for a lute, if I'm not mistaken. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:52:17 -0800 (PST) From: lee wallace Subject: a correction (someone posted;) "I myself as an American am foremost an individual and therefore despise every fibre of socialism, Michael Moore included." Michael Moore is not a socialist. (Please, carry on with music commentary now.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:13:38 -0500 From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: South Bank Soundscapes -- March 1996 Turning on the "way-back" machine........ cast your mind back to 7-10 March 1996...London, UK, South Bank..Remember when "ambient" music seemed new and fresh and Fripp's soundscapes poured out emotion so rich or powerfully large... I'm curious, does anyone know if these 3-hour sessions were recorded and if so, might they one day be released. David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:46:50 -0700 From: Michael Cox Subject: Americanus Buttheadus I must apologize to the ET world at large; it seems that even in esoteric musical circles, the species Americanus Buttheadus feels the need to lift his ugly head. I refer, of course, to Raymond Raupers' typical drooling righty-rant in the last ET. Rest assured, dear readers, that nearly half of Americans violently reject such opinions and actually have educations and stuff. But I'm afraid Americanus Buttheadus will be on the rampage here for another four years. We appreciate your patience while we deal with the problem. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:15:22 -0600 From: David Snyder Subject: NST and Mr. Ormond Dear ETer's Mr. Ormond had some perplexities about NST versus OST. Very reasonable perplexities. Attending a GuitarCraft course is the best way to understand about NST and my experience is this elucidates some necessities of the NST. At least one of the weaknesses that Mr. Ormond claims NST has is actually a huge and surprising strength for a successful outcome to a GuitarCraft introductory course. One unobvious fact: two NST guitars in close proximity will resonate with each other (the perfect 5th is the 1st harmonic); not so when tuned by 4ths in the Old Standard Tuning. Put together 50-100 guitars and ... whoa! Beauty! Mr. Ormond complains "Now we come to chords; every single chord shape previously learned would be useless in the new tuning" - exactly and thank God it is so. This makes more available than could be otherwise. What appears to be nothing is not necessarily empty. Continuing, Mr. Ormond says " and in fact, I cannot see how one could even successfully PLAY most common chords as one's fingers would simply not be flexible or long enough to reach the notes." Many chords are available, just not the ones he is familiar with. He later says: "The alternative is that I know next to nothing about guitar and should either start learning again or quit altogether. This is cannot accept." Substitute the word 'music' for 'guitar' into this and the statement may be closer to the truth. But don't quit. Best wishes to all, David Snyder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:19:53 +0000 (GMT) From: riadsala-et Subject: Re: New Standard Tuning With regard to the comments on the new standard tuning, the idea that while 5ths is ok for violin, but not for guitar because the neck it too long, well, that's a non-starter to begin with. The 'cello is also tuned in perfect 5ths and 'cellists still manage to play fast arrpegios, scales and chords. The the neck of a cello is longer than a violin. I would imagine you have to do when I went from playing cello (in 5ths) to bass guitar (in 4ths), but in reverse. Forget all the fingering positions you already know and learn how the scales fit in your new tuning. Cheers Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:03:01 -0500 From: Russell Whitworth Subject: re. Toby's eBay sales > Subject: Yet More Crimson-related items for sale on eBay! > Hi, I have a couple more Fripp/Belew -related items for sale on eBay Ple= ase have a look if you're > interested. > http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZpodssama > Cheers > Toby Mmmm.... VAX 11/780 Hardware Handbook. Undoubtedly a classic, but the Fripp/Belew connection had previously escaped me :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:16:33 -0800 (PST) From: PEDRO CAMPILLO Subject: Neal and Jack and Me in Spain answer to ET04722 Sorry I bought it in Spain, and three or four weeks ago. If you are near Barcelona, you can find it in Pan y Musica www.panymusica.com Discos Revolver (the green one better). C/Tallers n=BA 11 In Madrid, the best place is Discos Melocoton, I don't have the address but you can find it on the internet easily. I promise I don't get any commision. Best regards The Schizoid Winkler ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:45:07 EST From: Wilcox660 Subject: Re: Socialists and ET Posts so full of hatred have no place here. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:28:05 -0600 From: Rick Deresz Subject: P.J. Crook One fine day in College Station, TX, I was perusing my psychology textbook when I came across an interesting painting that began a chapter. I checked the index in the back of the book to see if it was true, and it turned out that my mediocre artistic recognition skills served me well. The painting was by P.J. Crook, the esteemed artist employed frequently by our very own most honored band, King Crimson. So I told my roommate about it. He didn't really care. Maybe I just get too excited about KC related things. Anyways, just wanted to share. RiKc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:58:21 +0000 From: Steve Rogers Subject: Socialists and ET No idea what Raymond Raupers is on about! Is that supposed to be English? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:00:17 +0000 From: Steve Rogers Subject: New standard tuning No, Gary, I think it's great that someone has at last thought of discussing the NST as opposed to merely recording its existence. Perhaps some Guitar Craft people might share their experience of it, and whether they kept it up after the course? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:33:55 +0100 From: Theo Arp Subject: ProjeKct Three track: Masque 3 hi there 1. masque 3 is one of my favourite tracks on the cd from the box set. I wonder, has the track masque 3 on the latest club issue (club 27: live in austin, texas) the same source. of course, it's much longer, but it misses the heartbreaking solo from trey gun (i think). anyone got a clue. 2. on the flap from the backcover of the club cd there's forming a new picture (club 1-10 the epitaph crimson, club 11-25 crimson 73/74). who's seen the picture somewhere else? theo (holland) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:51:34 -0500 From: vze6n8vs Subject: Re: new standard tuning I'll just quote Gary Ormond's post from November 17th, to save time. "Now, if I have this tuning right, I am totally baffled as to the point of using it. The guitar WORKS in fourths it does NOT work in fifths! Consider; diatonic scales and modes work perfectly using 3 notes per string, which means you play a 3rd linearly then change strings. With string intervals of 5ths though you'd have to position shift on every string OR stretch." My inclination regarding this is that Fripp doesn't feel there's any reason to play a scale up and down the strings from start to finish, as one might on a piano. Perhaps by spacing out the strings more, it discourages the kind of playing he often calls "old farts practicing scales." Certainly, it would be hard to do that banal three-notes-per string sweeping trick every metal head in the 80's used to do. But that's probably the point. My experience with dabbling in this tuning is that the whole-steps and half-steps on each string line up with each other perfectly for diatonic scales, except for one moving cluster of frets where they're offset. This is much easier to visualize and remember than the seemingly random combination of whole- and half-steps in standard tuning, but I guess one could conceivably memorize either one; Fripp himself certainly did, right up until 1983! "Stretching is fine on a violin, but the guitar is a lot bigger. Similarly, arpeggio shapes would be totally out of the window in this new tuning." Only if arpeggios need to be stepwise. If you're willing to incorporate interval leaps of a fifth and above (as Fripp often does), then it's much easier to acheive in a tuning such as this. And on the flip side, for close interval relationships, the highest two strings are only a minor third apart. "Now we come to chords; every single chord shape previously learned would be useless in the new tuning..." Is this any surprise? "...and in fact, I cannot see how one could even successfully PLAY most common chords as one's fingers would simply not be flexible or long enough to reach the notes." Firstly, I agree that common chords, with the root, third, fifth and octave appearing in that very order, are difficult. Yet, Robert rightly acknowledges that there's no reason to play those chords instead of their inversions, which are actually really simple in the New Standard tuning. Having a perfect fifth between most of the strings lets you acheive major and minor chord inversions easier, because that major or minor sixth is no longer such a reach. Secondly, the biggest punchline of them all is that Robert himself has rather small fingers, from what I've seen. "You will forgive me for sounding cynical but if I, after almost 20 years experience and a successful spell at music college studying classical Guitar, cannot figure this out, then I am left to wonder if it has any point or meaning at all. The alternative is that I know next to nothing about guitar and should either start learning again or quit altogether. This is cannot accept." Well, cynical or not, you have to look at the implications of what you're suggesting, as well: that Robert Fripp, Tony Geballe, Trey Gunn, Hideyo Moriya, Steve Ball, Bert Lams, and everyone else using this tuning are participating in a meaningless exercise. Hard to accept either way. While I agree with your assertion that EADGBE is not "arbitrary!" as Fripp forcefully emphasizes, I do feel there are limitations in it that are overcome by the New Standard Tuning, even though that also has its own limitations. It's just a matter of what one's musical priorities are. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:07:26 +0100 From: Karl Boman Subject: Re: new standard tuning Hello everyone! In response to Gary Ormond=E2=80=99s post in ET 1192:=20 "I recently read somewhere about Mr. Fripp's "guitar craft" tuning and seem to remember that it is entirely in perfect 5ths with the exception of strings 1 and 2 which I believe are a minor 3rd. This would give something like; 1 =3D G; 2 =3D E; 3 =3D A; 4 =3D D; 5 = =3D G; 6 =3D C. Firstly, have I got this correct or did I read it wrong?" Yup, I believe that=E2=80=99s the NST. "Now, if I have this tuning right, I am totally baffled as to the point of using it. The guitar WORKS in fourths it does NOT work in fifths!" Well, Fripp and GC have used this tuning for almost 20 years now, so I doub= t it=E2=80=99s totally useless. Sorry is this sounds flippant, but that i= s a very rash statement you just made. "Consider; diatonic scales and modes work perfectly using 3 notes per string, which means you play a 3rd linearly then change strings. With string intervals of 5ths though you'd have to position shift on every string OR stretch. Stretching is fine on a violin, but the guitar is a lot bigger. Similarly, arpeggio shapes would be totally out of the window in this new tuning." You state this as fact, but to me it seems more to be an opinion. Unless I= =E2=80=99ve been misinformed, arpeggio is a way of playing, not a set shape= =E2=80=93 so that any shape, as you say, can be played over any chord. S= o I can=E2=80=99t really see the problem. And if a position shift or stretch is required, what of it? One does what i= s required, surely? "Now we come to chords; every single chord shape previously learned would be useless in the new tuning and in fact, I cannot see how one could even successfully PLAY most common chords as one's fingers would simply not be flexible or long enough to reach the notes." Well, when I tune my guitar away from the OST, the main reason is that I DO= N=E2=80=99T want to play common chords or fall back on the established, o= ld, and often to my ears very very boring chords. The whole point is that= I get to invent entirely new chords whose names I don=E2=80=99t have to = worry about, leaving out set notions of keys and all that. My ears are pe= rfectly capable of telling what sounds good, and if I do need formal know= ledge I can access that as well. Now, I don=E2=80=99t use the NST for various reasons and I=E2=80=99m not su= re if I ever will approach GC - I feel I am not mature enough for the com= mitment at this point in my life - but I do like the idea. I currently tu= ne my guitars in OST, drop-D, or F major (FACFAF). I still have far too m= uch fun playing other people=E2=80=99s OST songs to leave it behind, but = for compositional purposes it=E2=80=99s just not very inspiring. So, to get back to the point: if established chords can=E2=80=99t be readil= y played, don=E2=80=99t play them. Play other chords. "I just cannot understand the value of the exercise and wonder deep down whether it is in fact Mr Fripp's intension to simple take a lot of promising guitarists and totally destroy their technique and playing style as part of some neo-zen experiment into the deconstruction of the instrument while getting paid to do so." Heheh, I don=E2=80=99t think "getting paid" is the case here... As far as I= know (and any Crafty on the list is more than welcome to correct me on t= his!) all incoming money is used for rent of course houses, food, webpage= etc. I seriously doubt Fripp gets rich, financially, from Guitar Craft. = I can=E2=80=99t help you with his intensions, but if I had to guess I=E2= =80=99d venture some of them are to be found on the GC webpage (www.guitarc= raft.com?) "You will forgive me for sounding cynical but if I, after almost 20 years experience and a successful spell at music college studying classical Guitar, cannot figure this out, then I am left to wonder if it has any point or meaning at all. The alternative is that I know next to nothing about guitar and should either start learning again or quit altogether. This is cannot accept." I would like to answer this but I fear I run the risk of sounding arrogant:= I can only assure you that it is not meant to be so (which guess for the= rest of this post as well, I might add). To this outside observer, judging from your letter, it seems that you have = gone a very different and much more traditional path than that of Guitar = Craft - it doesn=E2=80=99t surprise me that GC feels strange to you. It i= s! And I don=E2=80=99t think judgments on the point or meaning of it shou= ld be made until one has tried for oneself. As for learning or quitting - one should never stop learning and if you enj= oy playing the guitar and it makes your life better I don=E2=80=99t see w= hy you should ever quit it. I hope this has shed some sort of light on the issue! I have a feeling some= one with more hands-on experience of NST/GC can give much better answers,= but I felt compelled to write. On a different note, the last ET I received before this one (1192) was 1187= . Has there been a hiccup or is the problem on my end? Best wishes, Karl Boman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:31:04 +0000 From: Alan Gent Subject: Socialsists and ET oh dear, here we go again. Yet another redneck (Raymond J Raupers for God's sake) sounding off about how Right he is. Let's hope it was actually a wind up and in that sense he doesn't really exist. I suppose we could run a series of tests on these people to see how credible they can make their answers. (E.g. Why did you think voting for George Bush was a good thing? Answer? (Hint, you cannot mention the World in your answer) Do you actually have a passport or are you one of those Americans who screw up the rest of the World without actually leaving your back yard? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:33:04 +0300 From: Cham Subject: Re: What Guide to King Crimson? Hello, I'd like to have an argument. Vladimir Kalnitsky wrote: "What do you think about the real name of the first King Crimson compilation. In John Relph's discography it is called "A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson"; in my very old catalogue of tape recordings I found "The Young Persons' Guide..." which was copied from the original Island LP cover; there is information that on the LP labels of the same edition it is written "A Young Person's Guide..."; in the booklet to "The Essential King Crimson: frame by frame" Fripp called it "The Young Persons' Guide..." So, where the truth is?" I wonder why Crimso minds should dedicate their energies to the English grammar rules, Level 2 (Intermediate), instead of exploring soundterras generously offered to us by Fripp and Friends. Aren't there enough weird chords to be concerned with? Does the What if Fripp himself isn't sure about definiteness of this edition yet? What if Fripp despises grammar rules to the degree when all articles are the same? What if Fripp wants to double sales of the aforementioned 'Young Person's Guide' expecting that the real connoisseurs would definitely want to possess both versions, A and THE, in order to take delight in their possible (dis)similarity? Does the definite article sounds better for the sophisticated ear when it is somehow inconceivably transcribed into sheet music? If yes, would you please share the secret of its audible distinction by the means of musical device which we are all interested in (or should have to be) so that all the happy possessors of definite (or indefinite - I'm still not quite sure which is CORRE Cham ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:31:24 -0500 From: Scott & Cindi Abernethy Subject: Tab Request I have searched the internet for months trying to find guitar tab for Adrian Belew's Peace on Earth. I've reached the point of offering cash, so here's the deal: You tab the version from The Acoustic Adrian Belew (both parts) and I'll donate $50 to the charity of your choice. Peace Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:16:16 -0500 From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: Level 5 - what's in a name? I came across this on "the ambient way" mailing list. LEVEL 5; the biblical number for grace God provides the grace for EACH of us to overcome Ask, seek, and knock and He will reveal Himself uniquely Questions: is this correct? Is this what KC intended when they named a CD "Level 5" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:29:31 -0800 (PST) From: Family snider Subject: Starless live lyrics....help..... anyone? Here is a stab at translating the early lyrics to Starless [& Bible Black] as performed at The Casino, Asbury Park, NJ, June 1974. This is only one of many variations, and not the one that finally became the album version. Any feedback and/or translations of additional live versions? I need some help with this. For some reason, this has never been included in any official lyric page, as well as any other versions that appeared during the 1974 concert tours. Thanks. Matt George bgeorge5 at netzero dot net Starless and Bible Black Ice blue Silver sky Gold thru my eyes Though my eyes see still grey to me Starless & Bible Black Old friend guiding light Cruel twisted smile [....] thru eyes -----> I have no idea on this one! Dark your lies Mark all time Starless and Bible black Cards fall Faces change Cats' cunning shows That the end You may win But you lose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:44:48 -0800 From: Anil Prasad Subject: New Adrian Belew Interview on Innerviews Hi folks, There's a new interview with Adrian Belew and Rob Fetters of the Bears on Innerviews. It's mostly Bears-focused, but there is some Krimson and Porcupine Tree content in it. There's a bunch of stuff on Belew's new solo albums as well. http://www.innerviews.org Cheers ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1193 *********************************