Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #119 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 119, Friday, 10 December 1993 Today's Topics: Re: ROLLINS/CRIMSON Possible Productions The Mincer Jean the Birdman Re: Discipline #118 sound mix Summer '94 GC course in Seattle Tapes, Airs & Graces, Etc. MORE STICK STUFF KC poll Pro Shot Vidios Re: merchandise Zappa Zappa sticks Michael Brook / Sylvian - Fripp tour Try (harder) Gunn Possible Productions order form dblack flag and Crimson Steve Howe/Bruford [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 17:22:40 EST From: David=Lane%HQ%Rational at Vines1 dot ratsys dot com Subject: Re: ROLLINS/CRIMSON 26H3KESSLERR at vms dot csd dot mu dot edu wrote: > For any fans of Henry Rollins (former punk band Black Flag leader/current > hard rockin' Rollins Band leader), he makes mention to Crimson in one of > his spoken word albums. [...] I think that they are quite crimson > influenced, especially on "the end of silence." Anyone second that > emotion? I dunno. When I saw the title of your message, I was hoping it referred to some little-known collaboration between Fripp & Sonny Rollins, but I guess not. Damn. - - - Dave Lane davidl at ratsys dot com R a t i o n a l Systems, Inc. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 14:50:36 PST From: "John Relph" Subject: Possible Productions I just spoke to Mark Perry at Possible Productions. He is a Crafty, and says he has a "working relationship" with Robert Fripp. Write him at the Possible Productions address for a catalog. Mark tells me that the _Live II_ CD (and cassette) otherwise known as _Live At Victoriaville_ does exist, but only about 1,200 were made (maybe that was 1,500). He says he does not like the sound because, although the recording quality is very good, the recording was made with two microphones in a venue that is designed for opera, and he doesn't like the overall sound of it. It was only sold on the European Crafty Guitar tour, and never made available in the USA. He also tells me that the _How I Became a Professional Musician_ is terrible. (In his opinion, of course.) One additional note in regards to the Sylvian & Fripp live tour: Pat Mastellotto was brought in because he has a sound that is similar to Jerry Marotta [and his name is similar as well], and because David Sylvian apparently did not like working with Mr Marotta. Mark defends Mr Mastellotto's work on this tour by pointing out that he was put in the difficult position of having to play all the original parts that Mr Marotta laid down in the studio. Thus he could never really develop parts of his own, and could only ornament what was given him. Mark and I agree that _Get Crafty I_ is a much superior recording to _Show of Hands_. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 16:15:43 -0800 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: The Mincer mike dot dickson at almac dot co dot uk wrote about this track from Starless & Bible Black: > 'The Mincer' - live, Parc des Expositions, Zurich (15 November > 1973) and overdubbed at AIR Studios, London (January 1974) ... >The tape ran out during the recording of 'The Mincer', hence the >rather abortive finale. There are surviving tapes of the entire gig though, and those have the original improv continue on into some other areas. One friend of mine claims that the jam falls apart a little bit right after the tape ran out on the master of concert recording and he wonders if maybe the tape "running out" wasn't a convenient excuse to end the thing without it continuing to the point he thought it stumbled. But since Fripp has said the tape ran out and it sure sounds like it did I'll believe the official version. If the musicians really did lose it for a moment there perhaps it was because Fripp was watching the tape roll out the end of the reel, fluttering at his feet... 8^0 It's quite interesting to hear the jam continue after the point where your ears expect it to stop, with the ending indelible in memory from so many listens to the "studio" version. It also sounds a bit different without vocals (which were overdubbed in the studio later) and a bit sparser. - Malcolm [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Mr M P Hughes Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 00:22:00 GMT Subject: Jean the Birdman I've come to America recently, bringing my CD of S/F but not the insert; now I find I'm on the brink of a gig, trying to cover Jean the Birdman and unable to pick out all the lyrics! If someone could send them to be, I'd be most grateful.... So, how *will* it sound on solo acoustic? I know it's pushing it a bit, but the song is *far* too groovy not to attempt... *** MIKEY: Michael Pycraft Hughes : MD Anderson Cancer Center, Houston TX *** *** michael at solid dot mda dot uth dot tmc dot edu : "It is a France-like thing...." -Doon *** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 11:20:18 GMT From: richard at fss dot icl dot co dot uk (Richard Barnett) Subject: Re: Discipline #118 > From: Toby > Subject: Pass the earplugs! i was at the same concert (1st december, manchester) - my comments follow > The Michael Brook opening set sounded _great_. The sound quality was > fantastic (although his music leaves me a bit cold. It's technically good, > sure, but "where's the soul?" as Ian Piumarta (fellow Discipline reader and > Mancunian chum) said wistfully to me on several occasions.) arguments about the music notwithstanding, i thought that the way he kept leaping from pedal to pedal was rather amusing - he looked rather overworked at times. > The S & F sound was muddy, there was an audible buzz, things were crackling > and distorted. Fripp's guitar was buried in the mix. And it was too > loud. Yikes. I just hope all this wasn't deliberate. Anyone else who's seen > this tour found anything similar, I wonder? i too noticed the buzz, but i was otherwise happy with the sound. i've never really been to any concert i thought too loud. what was the second encore? it sounded fairly familiar... i'd never seen fripp live before - i was rather surprised that he sat bolt upright and almost entirely motionless for the duration. he was almost always shrouded in darkness, too, and his movements were very conservative. overall, i suppose he radiated discipline. i was impressed. -- richard _______________________________________________________________________________ richard barnett richard at fss dot icl dot co dot uk "still using big-box powders? don't!" _______________________________________________________________________________ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 18:10:07 -0500 From: javasque at entropy dot bph dot jhu dot edu (Jaime Vasquez) Subject: sound mix Toby, my only complaint about the Chicago concert is that I could barely hear some of the things that both Fripp and Brook were doing. As a matter of fact I think I was only able to hear Brook when he was trading solos with Fripp during "Darshan". Regarding Fripp, of course I heard him play, but sometimes I would see him playing something at blinding speed, but as hard as I tried I could not hear whatever it was he was playing. It would have been nice if Sylvian's voice would have been treated during "Firepower" but that didn't happen. Well, I guess that if everything was perfect this world would be a really boring place. -Jaime. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 14:40:54 GMT From: Toby Howard Subject: Summer '94 GC course in Seattle The following is from Bill Forth, a recent subscriber to Discipline. Bill> Your readers may have an interest to know that Guitar Craft Seminars is Bill> projecting an introductory course in Seattle for next summer. (The exact Bill> date will depend on Robert's availability, as he has a busy year ahead with Bill> Crimson.) The course is open to players with all levels of playing Bill> experience. For details, potential Crafty Guitarists can write to: Bill> Bill> Guitar Craft Seminars, Bill> 14431 Ventura Blvd., Suite 118, Bill> Sherman Oaks, Bill> CA 91403 Bill> U.S.A. Bill> Bill> Or, send me E-Mail via AOL: billforth at aol dot com. Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: billforth at aol dot com Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 13:43:42 EST Subject: Tapes, Airs & Graces, Etc. Just so you know, Mark Perry (Possible Productions) has a small supply of Get Crafty I tapes remaining. For foreign orders, they are priced at $12.00, postage/handling included, or $17.00 for a tape autographed by RF. Send an IMO payable to a U.S. bank and you're in business. Also, in regard to pricing of the RFSQ CD, Mark has revised the price downward in line with postal rates: $23.00 for one, $18.00 for each additional CD with the same order. Anyone who has paid $25.00 will receive a Discipline Records sticker, courtesy of Mark. [[ The address again is: Possible Productions c/o Mark Perry 351 Magnolia Avenue Long Beach, California 90802 USA fax: 310-491-1945 -- Toby ]] [[ Note from Toby: Bill is a consultant to Robert Fripp, Possible Productions, and Discipline Records, and has organised Guitar Craft courses and tours, and Robert Fripp String Quintet tours. In a private email to Bill, I asked him a question, which was: given Bill's considerable experience of Guitar Craft, how did he react to the comments made by Eric Tamm, in his book about Fripp, about Guitar Craft teachers 'putting on airs and graces', as the course got bigger and the original one-to-one tuitions from Fripp were no longer a central part of a GC course. Bill was happy that his response to this question be published on Discipline. ]] What an interesting question you have sent to me... I think that Eric is being fair from his point of view. In general, his chapter on Guitar Craft is very good. (You can see that Eric is writing from his experience.) But, what Eric interpreted as 'airs and graces' may have been someone trying not to spoil things for him by revealing what was coming next. In this sense, no one who reads his book and attends a course will have quite as much fun as those who don't. But he does make a valid point... Robert's personality is such that it was natural for some of us to unconciously absorb aspects of his behavior for a while. This drops away eventually, as each player (hopefully) finds their own voice and relationship with music. I think this is a natural progression. On Level One Guitar Craft courses, many students meet themselves for the first time, and that isn't always easy. Plus, bear in mind that we're talking about guitarists here, who, dare I say, very often have a high opinion of themselves. For example, three days into my first course, I, convinced I was destined to replace Adrian Belew in King Crimson, remarked to Robert that I felt my guitar playing was actually getting WORSE. Robert laughed and remarked that, "No, your playing really is that bad!" Best wishes, Bill [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1993 11:28:03 -0600 (CST) From: 26H3KESSLERR at vms dot csd dot mu dot edu Subject: MORE STICK STUFF Hey, it's the guy inquiring about the Chapman stick. Thanx to all who contributed-the list is really cool. Anyone know where I can get such an instrument? Any players willing to sell a used one? If so, how much? I'd like to know. BK [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 93 18:56:03 EST Subject: KC poll OK, I know that this is the kind of thing only beginners do, but I'm a beginner and my curiosity has gotten the better of me. So here it is: 1. Your favorite KC album 2. Your favorite individual KC tune (studio) 3. Your favorite individual KC tune (live-either officially released or booted) 4. Your favorite non-KC project featuring Fripp (solo, LCG, Eno, whatever...) 5. Your favorite KC-related, but non-Fripp track Pretty standard questions, but once again, I am curious ****** PLEASE SEND ALL ANSWERS TO tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu ******** [[ Yes -- please don't send them to me or to Discipline! -- Toby ]] THE DEADLINE IS ONE WEEK AFTER THIS ISSUE OF "DISCIPLINE" IS SENT OUT RESULTS WILL BE POSTED THE NEXT WEEK [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1993 22:17:04 EST From: KCFA33A at prodigy dot com (MS LAURA E REED) Subject: Pro Shot Vidios Toby, Thankyou very much for sending my first issue of "Dicipline". I found it to be very enjoyable and yes, I would like to continue to be on your mailing list. May I submit the following to your publication ?.... I have to agree with the comments that I have read so far on Fripp's "Careful with that Axe". I have enjoyed watching this over and over. I do have one question though, does anyone out there have a watchable (B grade) tape of Robert's '84 "South Bank" special ?. I have a C- copy that flickers too much and really would love to see a better copy. Also, I wanted to know what other proshots were filmed outside of "Three of a Perfect Pair" japan, and Crimson's appearances on "Fridays", "O.G.W.T." (all of which I already have) from the 80's ?. You'll have to pardon my ignorance, but over the past few years I have primarily concen- trated on being a vast YES collector. I hadn't started collecting anything relating to Fripp or Crimson till only a year ago. Thankyou, Laura Reed [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: billforth at aol dot com Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 15:34:41 EST Subject: Re: merchandise Mark Perry is attempting to liquidate his stock of Guitar Craft items: Get Crafty I tapes, strings, whatever. Since I'm not exactly sure what he has on hand, I would encourage you to write to him for specifics. [[ See the Possible Productions address elsewhere in this issue -- Toby ]] Best wishes, Bill Forth [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1993 21:10:57 -0600 (CST) From: 26H3KESSLERR at vms dot csd dot mu dot edu Subject: Zappa I am extremely saddened by the death of "Uncle Frank." I hope all you fellow Crim-heads were as unfluenced and inspired by his compositions and playing. The music world lost a biggie today. "Music is the best" -FZ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Date: Tue, 07 Dec 93 13:25:00 EST Subject: Zappa In memory of Frank Zappa . . . . . TJ Mathews Joyce Abma P.S. Does anyone know if A. Belew had any recent musical crossings with F. Zappa? If his tour is still going maybe someone could ask. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Ian Piumarta Date: Tue, 7 Dec 15:12:14 1993 Subject: sticks Toby, Did I I'm now playing stick in our band? Only for one piece, and I play it "Levin/Gunn style": two handed bass. Sounds much better than the regular bass line though. I determined to do this having seen Trey get away with doing NOTHING on his stick at the Fripp gig. I really *did* mean what I said about any stick player in the audience being able to do just what Trey was doing! Maybe Trey Gunn should be known in future as Try (harder) Gunn. To be fair to the guy though, having listened to Sunday All Over The World/Kneeling At The Shrine again (and in headphones for the first time), Trey is doing OK. You can hear a fair bit of right-hand stuff going on (unless it's just some Enoish "Sticky" treatment on top of Fripp's guitar?? ;-) Ian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:38:00 -0500 From: ad520 at freenet dot buffalo dot edu (Daniel M. Dumych) Subject: Michael Brook / Sylvian - Fripp tour In the 8 Dec 1993 Eno-L, Brian Duguid wrote: > Michael Brook supported [Sylvian and Fripp], and despite >the limitations imposed by being a single guitar plus >several layers of taped backdrop, was mightily impressive. >I haven't heard "Cobalt Blue" yet but may well check it out >on the basis of this. More experimental than anything the >headliners provided, and much more listenable. Mr. Brook is the only person who has received consistently good marks for this tour, and he usually is in the situation where he is the ignored underdog, who is trying to hold back the raving Fripp and Sylvian fans. The man has guts and integrity to put himself into such a situation, all the more if Sylvian and Fripp have evolved into a metal-grinding band over the duration of this tour, as some concert-goers have written. I, personally, was hoping that the new, resurrected King Crimson would include Michael Brook, to push KC into newer territory, but such, apparently, is not the case. As for the mysterious Mr. Fripp staying out of the spotlight, perhaps this is his way of saying that the tour does not represent his musical aims, i.e., "I'm glad to help out, but this is not me"? Where is that new Fripp and Eno album???!!! -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel M. Dumych ad520 at freenet dot buffalo dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 18:48:29 GMT From: Toby Howard Subject: Possible Productions order form Mark Perry of Possible Productions faxed me his order form, reproduced below. If you do order anything, please mention Discipline, the Internet Newsletter for Robert Fripp enthusiasts. I should stress however that there is no commercial connection between Discipline (the Internet newsletter) and Possible Productions, Discipline (the record label), or anyone or anything else, for that matter! The information below is provided purely as a service for subscribers to Discipline. It's not a paid ad. Starting 1994, Discipline (the Internet newsletter) will have a new name, based on the responses from my enquiry to readers earlier this year. ____________________________________________________________________ MORE POSSIBILITIES FROM POSSIBLE PRODUCTIONS Fall 1993 Order Form 1. CD - Robert Fripp String Quintet 'The Bridge Between'. Collectors' Special Edition autographed by the artists ........................ $14.99 2. T-Shirt - Robert Fripp String Quintet 100% pre-shrunk available in large and extra-large ........... $12.00 [[ The T-shirt artwork is (sort of!) The Robert Fripp (RF's signature) String Quintet ______________________________ | | | | | | | 7 lines of sheet music | | | | | | | ------------------------------ well, I did say _sort of_! -- Toby ]] 3. Video - Robert Fripp String Quintet Recorded live in Japan, this sixty minute stereo hi-fi video is the only official concert video of the RFSQ sold (Not available in PAL format) ................. $19.99 4. CD - Trey Gunn '1000 years' The newest album from Trey Gunn takes the Chapman Stick to a new level ........... $14.99 5. CD - The California Guitar Trio 'Yamanashi Blues' The eclectic stylings of the CGT are heard in a new CD release .................... $14.99 6. Decal - Guitar Craft logo 4" silver on blue Celtic inspired knotwork design on self-stick backing ......... $3.00 7. Decal - Discipline Records logo A refinement of the design from the 1981 King Crimson edition: a symbol of hope and possibilities. Self-sticking backing ......................... $3.00 Postage and handling: 15% of total ($2.50 minimum) CA residents add 8.25% Orders outside US add $5.00 To order, send check or money order (in US dollars) to: Possible Productions 351 magnolia Ave Long Beach CA 90802 USA FAX (310) 491 1945 Orders outside US must pay with International Money Order in US dollars payable on a US bank. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: dblack flag and Crimson Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 12:46:58 CST From: Nicholas Schriber I second the Black Flag/ Crisom inluence suggestion. I noticed this years ago when I played "Obliteration" on the "Slip It In" Disk. If the influence on this instrumental piece is not immediately obvious, try playing it at fast speed. I realize this is slightly presumptuous. We give Fripp a little too much credit for "inventing" the kinds of progressions that are his trade- mark. But I'mm still confident of this connection. I think it has more to do with Ginn and Kira than with Rollins. Nicholas Schriber *** LAN Administration *** Austin TX USA *** Performance Art *** _*****************_NOT_ Seeking a good fantasy *** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1993 13:53:21 -0600 (CST) From: 26H3KESSLERR at vms dot csd dot mu dot edu Subject: Steve Howe/Bruford I attended a Steve Howe "not necessisarily acoustic" show last night. I now know how poor acoustics and overly-loud PA's can affect a show. , similarly to how some commented that this was the case with Sylvian/ Fripp. The playing was fascinating and sometimes very beautiful. But afterwords Steve was signing autographs and he mentioned he and Bruford would probably be touring with "The Symphonic Music of Yes" in March. How lame. C'mon B.B. get outta the past. that doesn't mean he sould work with Crimson, but do something other than the "Hooked on Classics" version of "Roundabout" for a bunch of yes-heads. just thought I'd get my two cents (pents) in on that. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.