Discipline #119 (as text)
10 December 1993
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 17:22:40 EST
From: David=Lane%HQ%Rational at Vines1 dot ratsys dot com
Subject: Re: ROLLINS/CRIMSON
26H3KESSLERR at vms dot csd dot mu dot edu wrote:
> For any fans of Henry Rollins (former punk band Black Flag leader/current
> hard rockin' Rollins Band leader), he makes mention to Crimson in one of
> his spoken word albums. [...] I think that they are quite crimson
> influenced, especially on "the end of silence." Anyone second that
> emotion?
I dunno. When I saw the title of your message, I was hoping it referred to
some little-known collaboration between Fripp & Sonny Rollins, but I guess
not. Damn.
- - -
Dave Lane davidl at ratsys dot com
R a t i o n a l
Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 14:50:36 PST
From: "John Relph" <relph at presto dot ig dot com>
Subject: Possible Productions
I just spoke to Mark Perry at Possible Productions. He is a Crafty, and
says he has a "working relationship" with Robert Fripp. Write him at the
Possible Productions address for a catalog.
Mark tells me that the _Live II_ CD (and cassette) otherwise known as _Live
At Victoriaville_ does exist, but only about 1,200 were made (maybe that
was 1,500). He says he does not like the sound because, although the
recording quality is very good, the recording was made with two microphones
in a venue that is designed for opera, and he doesn't like the overall
sound of it. It was only sold on the European Crafty Guitar tour, and
never made available in the USA.
He also tells me that the _How I Became a Professional Musician_ is
terrible. (In his opinion, of course.)
One additional note in regards to the Sylvian & Fripp live tour: Pat
Mastellotto was brought in because he has a sound that is similar to Jerry
Marotta [and his name is similar as well], and because David Sylvian
apparently did not like working with Mr Marotta. Mark defends Mr
Mastellotto's work on this tour by pointing out that he was put in the
difficult position of having to play all the original parts that Mr Marotta
laid down in the studio. Thus he could never really develop parts of his
own, and could only ornament what was given him.
Mark and I agree that _Get Crafty I_ is a much superior recording to _Show
of Hands_.
-- John
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 16:15:43 -0800
From: Malcolm Humes <malcolm at wrs dot com>
Subject: The Mincer
mike dot dickson at almac dot co dot uk wrote about this track from Starless & Bible Black:
> 'The Mincer' - live, Parc des Expositions, Zurich (15 November
> 1973) and overdubbed at AIR Studios, London (January 1974)
...
>The tape ran out during the recording of 'The Mincer', hence the
>rather abortive finale.
There are surviving tapes of the entire gig though, and those have the
original improv continue on into some other areas. One friend of mine
claims that the jam falls apart a little bit right after the tape ran out
on the master of concert recording and he wonders if maybe the tape
"running out" wasn't a convenient excuse to end the thing without it
continuing to the point he thought it stumbled. But since Fripp has said
the tape ran out and it sure sounds like it did I'll believe the official
version.
If the musicians really did lose it for a moment there perhaps it was
because Fripp was watching the tape roll out the end of the reel,
fluttering at his feet... 8^0
It's quite interesting to hear the jam continue after the point where your
ears expect it to stop, with the ending indelible in memory from so many
listens to the "studio" version. It also sounds a bit different without
vocals (which were overdubbed in the studio later) and a bit sparser.
- Malcolm
From: Mr M P Hughes <pycraft at sees dot bangor dot ac dot uk>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 00:22:00 GMT
Subject: Jean the Birdman
I've come to America recently, bringing my CD of S/F but not the insert;
now I find I'm on the brink of a gig, trying to cover Jean the Birdman and
unable to pick out all the lyrics! If someone could send them to be, I'd be
most grateful....
So, how *will* it sound on solo acoustic? I know it's pushing it a bit, but
the song is *far* too groovy not to attempt...
*** MIKEY: Michael Pycraft Hughes : MD Anderson Cancer Center, Houston TX ***
*** michael at solid dot mda dot uth dot tmc dot edu : "It is a France-like thing...." -Doon ***
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 11:20:18 GMT
From: richard at fss dot icl dot co dot uk (Richard Barnett)
Subject: Re: Discipline #118
> From: Toby
> Subject: Pass the earplugs!
i was at the same concert (1st december, manchester) - my comments follow
> The Michael Brook opening set sounded _great_. The sound quality was
> fantastic (although his music leaves me a bit cold. It's technically good,
> sure, but "where's the soul?" as Ian Piumarta (fellow Discipline reader and
> Mancunian chum) said wistfully to me on several occasions.)
arguments about the music notwithstanding, i thought that the way he kept
leaping from pedal to pedal was rather amusing - he looked rather
overworked at times.
> The S & F sound was muddy, there was an audible buzz, things were crackling
> and distorted. Fripp's guitar was buried in the mix. And it was too
> loud. Yikes. I just hope all this wasn't deliberate. Anyone else who's seen
> this tour found anything similar, I wonder?
i too noticed the buzz, but i was otherwise happy with the sound. i've
never really been to any concert i thought too loud.
what was the second encore? it sounded fairly familiar...
i'd never seen fripp live before - i was rather surprised that he sat bolt
upright and almost entirely motionless for the duration. he was almost
always shrouded in darkness, too, and his movements were very conservative.
overall, i suppose he radiated discipline. i was impressed.
-- richard
_______________________________________________________________________________
richard barnett richard at fss dot icl dot co dot uk
"still using big-box powders? don't!"
_______________________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 18:10:07 -0500
From: javasque at entropy dot bph dot jhu dot edu (Jaime Vasquez)
Subject: sound mix
Toby, my only complaint about the Chicago concert is that I could barely
hear some of the things that both Fripp and Brook were doing. As a matter
of fact I think I was only able to hear Brook when he was trading solos
with Fripp during "Darshan". Regarding Fripp, of course I heard him play,
but sometimes I would see him playing something at blinding speed, but as
hard as I tried I could not hear whatever it was he was playing. It would
have been nice if Sylvian's voice would have been treated during
"Firepower" but that didn't happen. Well, I guess that if everything was
perfect this world would be a really boring place.
-Jaime.
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 14:40:54 GMT
From: Toby Howard <toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk>
Subject: Summer '94 GC course in Seattle
The following is from Bill Forth, a recent subscriber to Discipline.
Bill> Your readers may have an interest to know that Guitar Craft Seminars is
Bill> projecting an introductory course in Seattle for next summer. (The exact
Bill> date will depend on Robert's availability, as he has a busy year ahead with
Bill> Crimson.) The course is open to players with all levels of playing
Bill> experience. For details, potential Crafty Guitarists can write to:
Bill>
Bill> Guitar Craft Seminars,
Bill> 14431 Ventura Blvd., Suite 118,
Bill> Sherman Oaks,
Bill> CA 91403
Bill> U.S.A.
Bill>
Bill> Or, send me E-Mail via AOL: billforth at aol dot com.
Toby
From: billforth at aol dot com
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 13:43:42 EST
Subject: Tapes, Airs & Graces, Etc.
Just so you know, Mark Perry (Possible Productions) has a small supply of
Get Crafty I tapes remaining. For foreign orders, they are priced at
$12.00, postage/handling included, or $17.00 for a tape autographed by RF.
Send an IMO payable to a U.S. bank and you're in business. Also, in regard
to pricing of the RFSQ CD, Mark has revised the price downward in line with
postal rates: $23.00 for one, $18.00 for each additional CD with the same
order. Anyone who has paid $25.00 will receive a Discipline Records
sticker, courtesy of Mark.
[[ The address again is:
Possible Productions
c/o Mark Perry
351 Magnolia Avenue
Long Beach, California 90802
USA
fax: 310-491-1945
-- Toby ]]
[[ Note from Toby: Bill is a consultant to Robert Fripp, Possible
Productions, and Discipline Records, and has organised Guitar Craft
courses and tours, and Robert Fripp String Quintet tours.
In a private email to Bill, I asked him a question, which was:
given Bill's considerable experience of Guitar Craft, how did he
react to the comments made by Eric Tamm, in his book about Fripp,
about Guitar Craft teachers 'putting on airs and graces', as the course
got bigger and the original one-to-one tuitions from Fripp were
no longer a central part of a GC course. Bill was happy that his
response to this question be published on Discipline. ]]
What an interesting question you have sent to me...
I think that Eric is being fair from his point of view. In general, his
chapter on Guitar Craft is very good. (You can see that Eric is writing
from his experience.) But, what Eric interpreted as 'airs and graces' may
have been someone trying not to spoil things for him by revealing what was
coming next. In this sense, no one who reads his book and attends a course
will have quite as much fun as those who don't. But he does make a valid
point...
Robert's personality is such that it was natural for some of us to
unconciously absorb aspects of his behavior for a while. This drops away
eventually, as each player (hopefully) finds their own voice and
relationship with music. I think this is a natural progression.
On Level One Guitar Craft courses, many students meet themselves for the
first time, and that isn't always easy. Plus, bear in mind that we're
talking about guitarists here, who, dare I say, very often have a high
opinion of themselves. For example, three days into my first course, I,
convinced I was destined to replace Adrian Belew in King Crimson, remarked
to Robert that I felt my guitar playing was actually getting WORSE. Robert
laughed and remarked that, "No, your playing really is that bad!"
Best wishes,
Bill
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1993 11:28:03 -0600 (CST)
From: 26H3KESSLERR at vms dot csd dot mu dot edu
Subject: MORE STICK STUFF
Hey, it's the guy inquiring about the Chapman stick. Thanx to all who
contributed-the list is really cool. Anyone know where I can get such an
instrument? Any players willing to sell a used one? If so, how much? I'd
like to know.
BK
From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L Kalka II)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 93 18:56:03 EST
Subject: KC poll
OK, I know that this is the kind of thing only beginners do, but I'm a
beginner and my curiosity has gotten the better of me. So here it is:
1. Your favorite KC album
2. Your favorite individual KC tune (studio)
3. Your favorite individual KC tune (live-either officially released or booted)
4. Your favorite non-KC project featuring Fripp (solo, LCG, Eno, whatever...)
5. Your favorite KC-related, but non-Fripp track
Pretty standard questions, but once again, I am curious
****** PLEASE SEND ALL ANSWERS TO tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu ********
[[ Yes -- please don't send them to me or to Discipline! -- Toby ]]
THE DEADLINE IS ONE WEEK AFTER THIS ISSUE OF "DISCIPLINE" IS SENT OUT
RESULTS WILL BE POSTED THE NEXT WEEK
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1993 22:17:04 EST
From: KCFA33A at prodigy dot com (MS LAURA E REED)
Subject: Pro Shot Vidios
Toby, Thankyou very much for sending my first issue of "Dicipline". I
found it to be very enjoyable and yes, I would like to continue to be on
your mailing list. May I submit the following to your publication ?....
I have to agree with the comments that I have read so far on Fripp's
"Careful with that Axe". I have enjoyed watching this over and over. I do
have one question though, does anyone out there have a watchable (B grade)
tape of Robert's '84 "South Bank" special ?. I have a C- copy that
flickers too much and really would love to see a better copy.
Also, I wanted to know what other proshots were filmed outside of "Three of
a Perfect Pair" japan, and Crimson's appearances on "Fridays", "O.G.W.T."
(all of which I already have) from the 80's ?. You'll have to pardon my
ignorance, but over the past few years I have primarily concen- trated on
being a vast YES collector. I hadn't started collecting anything relating
to Fripp or Crimson till only a year ago.
Thankyou,
Laura Reed
From: billforth at aol dot com
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 15:34:41 EST
Subject: Re: merchandise
Mark Perry is attempting to liquidate his stock of Guitar Craft items: Get
Crafty I tapes, strings, whatever. Since I'm not exactly sure what he has
on hand, I would encourage you to write to him for specifics.
[[ See the Possible Productions address elsewhere in this issue -- Toby ]]
Best wishes, Bill Forth
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1993 21:10:57 -0600 (CST)
From: 26H3KESSLERR at vms dot csd dot mu dot edu
Subject: Zappa
I am extremely saddened by the death of "Uncle Frank." I hope all you
fellow Crim-heads were as unfluenced and inspired by his compositions and
playing. The music world lost a biggie today.
"Music is the best"
-FZ
From: "Mathews, Thomas J." <TJM4 at NCH08A dot EM dot CDC dot GOV>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 93 13:25:00 EST
Subject: Zappa
In memory of Frank Zappa . . . . .
TJ
Mathews
Joyce
Abma
P.S. Does anyone know if A. Belew had any recent musical crossings
with F. Zappa? If his tour is still going maybe someone could ask.
From: Ian Piumarta <ikp at cs dot man dot ac dot uk>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 15:12:14 1993
Subject: sticks
Toby,
Did I I'm now playing stick in our band? Only for one piece, and I play it
"Levin/Gunn style": two handed bass. Sounds much better than the regular
bass line though.
I determined to do this having seen Trey get away with doing NOTHING on his
stick at the Fripp gig. I really *did* mean what I said about any stick
player in the audience being able to do just what Trey was doing!
Maybe Trey Gunn should be known in future as Try (harder) Gunn.
To be fair to the guy though, having listened to Sunday All Over The
World/Kneeling At The Shrine again (and in headphones for the first time),
Trey is doing OK. You can hear a fair bit of right-hand stuff going on
(unless it's just some Enoish "Sticky" treatment on top of Fripp's guitar??
;-)
Ian
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:38:00 -0500
From: ad520 at freenet dot buffalo dot edu (Daniel M. Dumych)
Subject: Michael Brook / Sylvian - Fripp tour
In the 8 Dec 1993 Eno-L, Brian Duguid wrote:
> Michael Brook supported [Sylvian and Fripp], and despite
>the limitations imposed by being a single guitar plus
>several layers of taped backdrop, was mightily impressive.
>I haven't heard "Cobalt Blue" yet but may well check it out
>on the basis of this. More experimental than anything the
>headliners provided, and much more listenable.
Mr. Brook is the only person who has received consistently good marks for
this tour, and he usually is in the situation where he is the ignored
underdog, who is trying to hold back the raving Fripp and Sylvian fans.
The man has guts and integrity to put himself into such a situation, all
the more if Sylvian and Fripp have evolved into a metal-grinding band over
the duration of this tour, as some concert-goers have written.
I, personally, was hoping that the new, resurrected King Crimson would
include Michael Brook, to push KC into newer territory, but such,
apparently, is not the case.
As for the mysterious Mr. Fripp staying out of the spotlight, perhaps this
is his way of saying that the tour does not represent his musical aims,
i.e., "I'm glad to help out, but this is not me"?
Where is that new Fripp and Eno album???!!!
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel M. Dumych ad520 at freenet dot buffalo dot edu
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 18:48:29 GMT
From: Toby Howard <toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk>
Subject: Possible Productions order form
Mark Perry of Possible Productions faxed me his order form, reproduced
below. If you do order anything, please mention Discipline, the Internet
Newsletter for Robert Fripp enthusiasts.
I should stress however that there is no commercial connection between
Discipline (the Internet newsletter) and Possible Productions, Discipline
(the record label), or anyone or anything else, for that matter! The
information below is provided purely as a service for subscribers to
Discipline. It's not a paid ad.
Starting 1994, Discipline (the Internet newsletter) will have a new name,
based on the responses from my enquiry to readers earlier this year.
____________________________________________________________________
MORE POSSIBILITIES FROM
POSSIBLE PRODUCTIONS
Fall 1993 Order Form
1. CD - Robert Fripp String Quintet 'The Bridge Between'.
Collectors' Special Edition
autographed by the artists ........................ $14.99
2. T-Shirt - Robert Fripp String Quintet
100% pre-shrunk
available in large and extra-large ........... $12.00
[[ The T-shirt artwork is (sort of!)
The
Robert Fripp (RF's signature)
String Quintet
______________________________
| |
| |
| |
| 7 lines of sheet music |
| |
| |
| |
------------------------------
well, I did say _sort of_! -- Toby ]]
3. Video - Robert Fripp String Quintet
Recorded live in Japan, this sixty minute
stereo hi-fi video is the only official concert
video of the RFSQ sold
(Not available in PAL format) ................. $19.99
4. CD - Trey Gunn '1000 years'
The newest album from Trey Gunn
takes the Chapman Stick to a new level ........... $14.99
5. CD - The California Guitar Trio 'Yamanashi Blues'
The eclectic stylings of the CGT
are heard in a new CD release .................... $14.99
6. Decal - Guitar Craft logo
4" silver on blue Celtic inspired
knotwork design on self-stick backing ......... $3.00
7. Decal - Discipline Records logo
A refinement of the design from the
1981 King Crimson edition: a symbol of
hope and possibilities.
Self-sticking backing ......................... $3.00
Postage and handling: 15% of total ($2.50 minimum)
CA residents add 8.25%
Orders outside US add $5.00
To order, send check or money order (in US dollars) to:
Possible Productions
351 magnolia Ave
Long Beach
CA 90802
USA
FAX (310) 491 1945
Orders outside US must pay with International Money Order in US dollars
payable on a US bank.
Subject: dblack flag and Crimson
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 12:46:58 CST
From: Nicholas Schriber <nicholas at wixer dot bga dot com>
I second the Black Flag/ Crisom inluence suggestion. I noticed this years
ago when I played "Obliteration" on the "Slip It In" Disk. If the
influence on this instrumental piece is not immediately obvious, try
playing it at fast speed. I realize this is slightly presumptuous. We
give Fripp a little too much credit for "inventing" the kinds of
progressions that are his trade- mark. But I'mm still confident of this
connection. I think it has more to do with Ginn and Kira than with Rollins.
Nicholas Schriber *** LAN Administration ***
Austin TX USA *** Performance Art ***
_*****************_NOT_ Seeking a good fantasy ***
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1993 13:53:21 -0600 (CST)
From: 26H3KESSLERR at vms dot csd dot mu dot edu
Subject: Steve Howe/Bruford
I attended a Steve Howe "not necessisarily acoustic" show last night. I
now know how poor acoustics and overly-loud PA's can affect a show. ,
similarly to how some commented that this was the case with Sylvian/ Fripp.
The playing was fascinating and sometimes very beautiful. But afterwords
Steve was signing autographs and he mentioned he and Bruford would probably
be touring with "The Symphonic Music of Yes" in March. How lame. C'mon
B.B. get outta the past. that doesn't mean he sould work with Crimson, but
do something other than the "Hooked on Classics" version of "Roundabout"
for a bunch of yes-heads. just thought I'd get my two cents (pents) in on
that.
Mike Stok