Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1186 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1186 Monday, 30 August 2004 Today's Topics: melody/riff solo/improv Re: Solo/improvisation or melody/riff? KC Site/Greg Lake Coda: I Have a Dream Frippertronics and Soundscapes Re: Frippertronics Vs Soundscapes Fripp in recent press Re: Elephant Talk #1185 Re: Elephant Talk #1185 The Name of This Band...& more Re: Mr. Fripp's Amplifiers, effects and musical equipment Eyes Wide Open DVD question Yet More Crimson-related items for sale on eBay! ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send *all posts* to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com ** Posts intended for the newsletter should have a subject prefix of ETPOST ** Posts intended for an individual newsletter contributor should have a subject prefix of their ET 'Ticket Number', shown at ETxxxxx in their 'From:' line in the newsletter. 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If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:42:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jimmy Bob Subject: melody/riff solo/improv here's a few definitions I've found on these musical terms, courtesy of Encarta online: MELODY: 1) a series of musical notes that form a distinct unit, are recognizable as a phrase, and usually have a distinctive rhythm 2) the linear structure of a piece of music in which single notes follow one another 3) the primary and most recognizable part in a harmonic piece of music [melody is also characterized by the presence of harmony, that's my little addition] RIFF: a short, often repeated series of notes in pop music or jazz that forms a distinctive part of the accompaniment And to push this a little further, the riff to "Iron Man" (good song) is a melody with an accompanying harmony. The 14-or-so chords which make up the riff have a distinct pitch (for example, the C chord's distinct pitch is a C, the A chord is A, etc.) and --- SOLO: a piece of music performed by one musician or singer, or a passage for a single player or singer within a longer piece for two or more, a choir, or an orchestra an improvisation is just music which is made up on the spot with sparse--if any--preparation. In terms of "Level Five" Fripp just plays a solo, Adrian plays a solo which is also an improvisation... AND (with the second interp. of "melody") THEY'RE BOTH PLAYING MELODIES! This is the point a which stuff gets really complicated... Isn't music theory fun? -Nic ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:43:41 -0500 From: Scott Ranalli Subject: Re: Solo/improvisation or melody/riff? I'd like to address Rikard Grankvist's post/question from #1184: What's the difference between a solo/improvisation and a melody/riff? 1. As the word implies, "solo" simply means one player playing in a highlighted spot of the music. Strictly speaking, most solos are not really true solos since other musicians continue to play in support. However, solos may be composed in advance OR improvised. Therefore Robert's part on Level 5 is still a solo, even though it was not improvised. In fact Robert usually seems to have a pretty good idea what he is going to do with a solo break, whereas Adrian is more of an improv guy. I remember the story from Adrian about recording David Bowie's "Lodger" album, where at one point, Eno (the producer) and Bowie stuck him in a room and told him to play a solo and refused to even tell him what key the song was in --- how's that for improvisation?! 1A. Side Note: To further confuse things. musicians often incorporate the melody of a song into their solos (those cheeky bastards!). 2. On the other part of your question, let me say that all riffs are melodies, though not all melodies are riffs. You are correct in saying that riffs are (typically) repetitive. Riffs often begin a song, but may appear at any time in the song. One song may have several riffs. To add to the confusions, the riff which starts a song is often called a "hook". 3. Melodies are not necessarily longer, just --- you know --- melodic. The things that come to mind are identifying movie melodies like the Wicked Witch lady music from "The Wizard of Oz" or the classical guitar part from "The Third Man". These are easily identifiable and repetitive, but I would not call them riffs. 4. To be sure, these are all subjective opinions, as you said. In fact, I believed I had some clear answers for you when I began composing this post, but apparently this is not the case. Thank you for the good food for thought, Rikard! Clear as mud? I hope so. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:00:48 -0400 From: Mike Subject: KC Site/Greg Lake Hi Crimheads, The link to my website on King Crimson has changed once again. The new link is down below. I'm looking for some info on The Gods, a band Greg Lake was in before he joined Crimson. Does anyone know of any recordings he might of done while a member of this band? Can't seem to find the info I'm looking for. If anyone can help it would be most appreciated. Thanks. Cheers, Mike http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ALLTHINGSCRIM/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:02:19 +0400 (MSD) From: Vladimir Kalnitsky Subject: Coda: I Have a Dream Hi friends, If I'm not mistaken, rather long time ago on adrianbelew.net there was a download of "Coda: I Have a Dream" acoustic version. It was supplemented with the text by Adrian. I'll be very pleased for this text, if somebody kept it. Very trully yours, Vladimir Kalnitsky P.S. Welcome to my web-site "The Russificated King Crimson" http://indoor-games.narod.ru ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:05:45 -0400 From: Matias_Vergara_ Subject: Frippertronics and Soundscapes I would rather not compare Frippertronics and Soundscapes. For me, the comparison between both is not the same that compare a vapor train with a speedy train. Even I think it's the same that happen with Mellotron's technologies in relation to a digital keyboard. Soundscapes and digital keyboards could be more advanced and confortable to the musician (obviously it depends on the styles, preferences and needs, too), but the others even with their old analogal systems, represent the essence and the origin of the classic, symphonic and progressive rock. In particular, I think is the secret ingredient of music. Now, you can install a midi program in your computer and compose everythink you like, almost at the same level of realism like a professional recorder; but I assure you that it's impossible to evoke the nostalgia, the feeling, the magic that Mellotrons and Frippertronics could be make. I still prefer the friction of a tape: "uncompareble". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 04:17:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Godfrey Subject: Re: Frippertronics Vs Soundscapes Thanks guys for the information. This element of Fripp's playing I find to be the most intriguing of all his side projects (if I may call it that). Although layering loops of sound are not a new concept (the earliest example of this that I know of are via Terry Riley's 'A Rainbow in Curved Air'), I believe that both Soundscapes & Frippertronics have furthered the concept far beyond it's humble beginnings. I must investigate the Soundscape albums further. Cheers Simon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 18:58:23 -0400 From: vze6n8vs Subject: Fripp in recent press Fripp, as somebody mentioned not too long ago, was number 10 on MOJO's list of best British guitarists. "21st Century Schizoid Man" was listed as his best track. I just read another magazine (Guitar World or something), and they had a list of the best guitar tones...Fripp was on there again, and for his tone on "21st Century..." again. I really wish the editors of these publications would give their readers a little more credit. Are we to accept that the first King Crimson track ever recorded, now over 30 years ago, is the pinnacle of Robert's work and guitar sound? I think it's just a case of the writers not knowing enough about their subject matter, and thus falling back on the conventional wisdom that the most well-known song of a slightly obscure artist must also be the best. Robert's guitar tone has become so much more focused and distinctively Robert over the years, as has his playing. I wish the musical press would give him more credit for these developments, but nobody seems to be able to move past 1969. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 01:39:04 +0100 From: Steve Rogers Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #1185 On Monday, Aug 23, 2004, at 18:35 Europe/London, Elephant Talk wrote: > Soundscapes involve one or more extremely long digital delay devices that > are really like really long samplers that replay things, but I believe > that they have incredibly huge memories now, allowing you to record 30 > seconds or even longer before repeating. Fripp's pair of samplers can store up to 64 seconds each. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 01:42:55 +0100 From: Steve Rogers Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #1185 On Monday, Aug 23, 2004, at 18:35 Europe/London, Elephant Talk wrote: > God...I wish he'd throw out all his new gear and play electric guitar > through a nice tube amp with analogue pedals. It's all so safe and > controlled and antiseptic now... Low-tech may be good for Frippertronics, but for King Crimson not so good. KC's guitar sounds are much stronger now. All that fly-buzzing-in-a-biscuit-tin nonsense in the David Cross era? Nah. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:35:06 +0100 From: Luis Cravo Subject: The Name of This Band...& more Greg Breit says: "THG would never have happened had Eno, Fripp, and Belew not crossed paths with Talking Heads around 1979." In fact the Fripp & Belew were very important , and Brian Eno even more ,the "Remain in Light." is not a Talking Heads Record it`s a David Byrne /Brian Eno record , All songs are writing by Brian Eno & D Byrne , and Brian Eno wrote 3 lyrics too . and don`t forget the People Brian Eno put in the studio sessions: Belew, N Hendrix, R palmer, Jon Hassell etc ... I think "fear of Music" is the best Talking Heads album and "Remain of Light" is a great DByrne /Brian Eno album with 5% participation of the rest 3 menbers of TGH . Luis Cravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:37:54 +0200 From: Karl Boman Subject: Re: Mr. Fripp's Amplifiers, effects and musical equipment In ET 1185, Gary Ormond wrote: > Dear ET, > > this is a first post for me and is made after some time spent looking for > and not finding the relevant information anywhere on the web or in your > digests. I am interested in learning more about Mr. Fripp's Amplification, > effects and other musical equipment, which of course includes guitars > (although I already have some small knowledge of this). Could anyone tell > me (perhaps even the man himself) what Mr. Fripp's current equipment list > consists of or point me in the right direction internet-wise. > > Many thanks. > > Gary Ormond > > www.garyormond.co.uk Hello Gary (and everyone else), The best sources for this sort of information are ET #1020 and guitargeek.com (that I have found). I doubt RF himself is particularly interested in commenting on this... In ET #1020 there is a long post by Ryan Tassone called "My analysis of Robert Fripp's guitar sound" at the very end which is the most comprehensive run-through I have read yet. In this and several previous issues there was a discussion of RF's equipment that might also be helpful (Ryan ends his post with "I hope I have killed this thread forever", which probably is hoping too much...). At guitargeek.com, there is an illustrated suggestion as to how RF's equipment may be routed - though it's from touring in 1997, so things have probably changed in places. It's easiest to find through the search form on the front page. And by pure chance, I came across this in his web diary last week week: "Equipment is a subject of alarming non-interest for me. This is what I've been doing with mine: reconfiguring & programming the digital side (VG8, GR1, GR30) to go through the TC G-Force (which smoothes out the buzziness which accompanies digital guitar); and routing the guitar-guitar (i.e. pick-ups) through 2 Roland GP100s. These are my favourite basic guitar effectors. Then, whether digital or analogue origination, the signal emerges through an Eventide 3000 & 3500. The programme controller is a Rocktron All Access. Two TC2290s lurk gently, waiting to deliver Soundscapes to an uncaring world." - From Aug. 23rd, 1999. His setup, generally and aptly called the Lunar Module, collapsed several times during the recent G3 tour and apparently a Lunar Module II is being built (or is planned to be built, or is intended to be, etc.). Let's hope this is the end of this thread for now, Karl -- : Karl Boman : karl dot boman at home dot se : http://kboman.digitaldistractions.se/ : "Right here's every world : Every time draws a line to right now" : - John Frusiante, "Someone's" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 08:20:17 -0500 From: rlecloux Subject: Eyes Wide Open DVD question Hello- Does anyone know which instrumental song is playing during the viewing of the DVD menu of Eyes Wide Open-DVD? Is it unique to this DVD or found else where? Thanks, Rod ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:12:20 +0100 From: Subject: Yet More Crimson-related items for sale on eBay! Hi, I have a few more Crimson-related items for sale on eBay, including an item autographed by RF. Please have a look if you're interested. Cheers ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1186 *********************************