Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1185 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1185 Monday, 23 August 2004 Today's Topics: exposure's 25th anniversary Re: Subject: Frippertronics Vs Soundscapes Artwork Solo/improv A musical minutium Bruford's Music for Piano & Drums Great Deceiver for sale Re: Crimsonite Keith Tippett's discography Soundscapes and Frippertronics. Mastering problem with Jap issue of Sinfield's Still Re: Solo/improvisation or melody/riff? Fripp 10th Best Guitarist in August Mojo magazine review of Stars.... Live in Philadelphia is EXCELLENT! Mr. Fripp's Amplifiers, effects and musical equipment The Name of This Band... NON-KC CD's FOR SALE ON AMAZON Adrian on Talking Heads remaster What ever happened to the band FRACTAL? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send *all posts* to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com ** Posts intended for the newsletter should have a subject prefix of ETPOST ** Posts intended for an individual newsletter contributor should have a subject prefix of their ET 'Ticket Number', shown at ETxxxxx in their 'From:' line in the newsletter. 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If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:59:24 +0200 From: Jasperse Subject: exposure's 25th anniversary hello! is there anybody out there who can tell me anything about the once mentioned rerelease of "exposure" because of its anniversary? chiel jasperse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:48:57 -0400 From: Allan Okada Subject: Re: Subject: Frippertronics Vs Soundscapes If I am not mistaken... Soundscapes involve one or more extremely long digital delay devices that are really like really long samplers that replay things, but I believe that they have incredibly huge memories now, allowing you to record 30 seconds or even longer before repeating. There is also no natural decay in the repeats when replayed, although you can probably program that in. I believe Fripp currently uses a guitar that triggers midi sounds or a combination thereof that makes it sound unlike a guitar and more like a synthetic trumpet (yech !) or general string-like sound. Frippertronics on the other hand was totally analogue based on a technology introduced to him by Brian Eno involving a tape loop and two reel to reel style tape recorders. The delay time was typically around 3-4 seconds and each repeat was decayed in a very lovely manner giving it a very unique quality that is not achievable by digital means (not nearly as nicely anyway). He had to really be on his toes too to make it work well. Instantaneous reactions to sounds etc.... He was also using his lovely 1959 Gibson with his analogue pedals at least from 1969 to 1979. Wah wah pedals, fuzz boxes and eeek ... even feedback ! And that infinite sustain which he got from the guitar itself ! All in all it's a more cumbersome, unreliable, unpredictable system (i.e. worse for Fripp). But more importantly an infinitely more beautiful, exciting, thrilling, spontaneous, noisey, evil (i.e. better for us !) For comparison...get one of Fripp new Soundscapes records... and get Fripp & Eno's No Pussyfooting for Frippertronics. I'd be astounded if you didn't prefer the latter. For some unknown reason he eliminated any solos from his subsequent official releases which he performed over top of Frippertronics loops. God...I wish he'd throw out all his new gear and play electric guitar through a nice tube amp with analogue pedals. It's all so safe and controlled and antiseptic now... Death to Soundscapes....Long Live Frippertronics ! Al Okada ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:03:16 -0400 From: Rich Schmitt Subject: Artwork Just wanted to share a link to a digital artwork I created which visually represents King Crimson Songs with images in a vast collage. I posted this sometime back, but have revamped it. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did making it: http://www.geocities.com/rich1970dub/kcthumb.html?1050430420672 p.s. sorry about the ads, as a starving artist I needed to use free webspace. Also the site can handle only so much web traffic at a time, if you can't view it at first, bookmark it and try later. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:07:11 -0700 From: David&Pamela Subject: Solo/improv >From a strictly musical viewpoint, solos and improvs are two different animals. Most improvs are solos, but most solos are not improvs. A 'solo' is simply a musical passage that features a single instrument or voice, the soloist. If it features two, then it's a duet, three, then its a trio, and so on. So, when someone says 'two solos, one by Fripp, and the other by Belew,' it doesn't matter if one is strictly composed, and the other is an improv. They are both still solos. A melody is a lyric thread that organizes a piece, and the melody may or may not be carried at some point in a solo. Frequently improvs are improvisations around the structure of the original melody (most classic jazz improvs are solo permutations of the melody of the song). A riff is something else entirely, and isn't well defined. It's largely a guitar term, and can mean 1) A quick, recurring motif that defines the piece, often very percussive in nature; 2) a distinctive ornament, often tricky to play, and usually attention-getting; 3) any short sequence of guitar parts that seems to form a single, cohesive unit. A song like Led Zeppelin's "Communication Breakdown" can show all of these at work (whether you like the song or not). It opens with a distinctive riff from the guitar that defines the whole piece (and is repeated a zillion times). Robert Plant's vocal caries the entire melody, but at some point Jimmy Page breaks into a solo, parts of which are improv (some of it varied from time-to-time), and some of which are strictly composed. So, you've really got four different things here, not two. Cheers, D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 22:38:27 +0100 From: Steve Rogers Subject: A musical minutium Would you agree that the repeated high notes about halfway through Cat Food presage similar phrases in Starless? - which is also partly a mutant 12-bar too, like CF. I wonder if there's a particular old blues record that idea came from. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:15:40 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Bruford's Music for Piano & Drums Hi, folks: Here's some info from the latest Artist Shop Newsletter that I know will excite a few people here. Check out the newsletter at . We're taking pre-orders on this now. Bill Bruford/Music for Piano & Drums ....import CD Winterfold records is one of two record company imprints that has been formed by Bill Bruford to release Bill's recorded work with the band Bruford and also Bill's work with keyboard player Patrick Moraz. Whilst initially the label will be releasing the officially released albums from the period 1978-1985 there will also be the opportunity in the future to release material that has in the past only been available on bootleg and perhaps even material that has never seen a commercial release. Following 'Bruford,' Bill Bruford worked with another former member of Yes, Patrick Moraz. Whilst they were never in Yes at the same time both Bruford and Moraz's roots and influences lie in jazz and it was in the mid eighties that the two musicians came together to record two albums of eclectic drum and keyboard based music. Both Music For Piano And Drums and Flags were well-received and included diverse material such as the Max Roach composition This Drum Also Waltzes and self-written material like Living Space. For the fans who perhaps own the original album on vinyl, now will be a good opportunity to experience this re mastered CD which was originally only available for a very limited time on CD as a very expensive Japanese release. Also included are three bonus tracks, all previously unreleased! Gary P. S. The one downside to this is that my own Japanese copy of Music for Piano & Drums has just gone down in value, LOL!!! ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:59:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Billmann Subject: Great Deceiver for sale Hi, I'm new to the list. If it is allowed to advertise for sale, I would like to sell my Great Deceiver boxed set. Please send questions etc. to mikebillmann at yahoo dot com. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:41:55 -0400 From: Mike Subject: Re: Crimsonite Keith Tippett's discography Very cool and interesting Keith Tippett discography you put together Emanuel. It's nice to see something like this on the internet (finally!!!!). Some info on Keith Tippett is hard to find but you have covered it all on your site. Good job. Cheers, Mike http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ALLTHINGSCRIM0 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:46:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Rikard Grankvist Subject: Soundscapes and Frippertronics. Simon says (!): "Does anybody know if there is any significant differences between Frippertronics and Soundscapes? I'm aware that the degree of technological sophistication has increased over the years but I've never seen the matter discussed at any length in this forum." As far as I am aware, Frippertronics is just a method of making soundscapes. Frippertronics refers to the setup of tape recorders that allows for recording and overdubbing loops "on-the-fly". This allows the player to slowly build a richly textured loop of sounds. A soundscape is a special musical form, not a "song" in the conventional sense. It refers to the usage of musical instruments, or any other sounds, to create a texture of sound. It is usually without a tempo, but can, if looped with the likes of Frippertronics give the sense of a pulse. What makes a soundscape a piece of music, and not just background sounds, is that it has a beginning and an end. That's at least my interpretation of a soundscape... I probably sound a bit confused, but it's a little hard to explain. I might have gotten you all wrong too. :) /R ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:26:01 +0000 From: neil ingram Subject: Mastering problem with Jap issue of Sinfield's Still Dear David I have listened to my Japanese copy of Still, although the catalogue # is VICP 60813 (not Victor VCP-62745, which you quote - although this may be an NZ/Oz release?). House of Hopes and Dreams is track 8 (not 6) and it sounds fine to me. Track 6 is Envelopes - there is something between 1:20 and 1:21 - not so much a break or dropping of sound, but the pedal guitar moves between the extreme Left and Right speakers and the moment you mention is in the middle of the switch. It is a slight disturbance, but perhaps nothing to get too worried about. That said, I am pretty laid back about such things, and it seems that I may be unusual in that. Peter Sinfield thinks it might have been an editing point, which he missed on the equipment he used to produce the original master tapes. The digital processing sometimes emphasies these effects which were less obvious in vinyl originals. Envelopes is a great song - sustained anger written in words of spun glass. I hope you can learn to listen through the 'blip' and enjoy the song for what it is. Best wishes Neil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:34:10 -0400 From: J A Sontag Subject: Re: Solo/improvisation or melody/riff? Hmmm: "What's the difference between a solo/improvisation and a melody/riff? I have often taken for granted that the an improvised, highlighted passage by an instrument is a solo, and that a pre-written (often highlighted) passage by an instrument is a melody, or a riff." Well, my "Elson's Pocket Music Dictionary", by Louis Elson, Professor of Theory of Music in the New England Conservatory of Music, defines melody thusly: "1. A succession of sounds so arranged as to produce a pleasing effect upon the ear; distinguished from 'harmony', where two or more tones are sounded simultaneously; 2. By 'the melody' the leading part in a harmonized composition is meant." Now this book is from 1909, so I wonder if the good professor would have considered many of the heavier, more dissonant Crimson "melodies" as producing "a pleasing effect upon the ear" (though I, and presumably anyone who subscribes to this list find them so). But the second part of the definition would not be in question. Since almost all Crimson compositions are for the entire band to play, that would make them "harmonized compositions", and that would make the leading part the melody. Thus in "Level Five", the "two solos", by Fripp and then Belew, being the leading parts at those points in the composition, would both be considered "the melody" at their respective points in the piece. Whether the melody is composed or improvised, it is still the melody. Of course, it is worth pointing out that what originally starts as an improvised part, if remembered and repeated, can become in time as much an integral, "always there" part of a piece, as any that was written down from the beginning. So what started as an "improvisation" turns out to be a "composition" that just took a long time, and multiple playings, to be fully "composed". A "solo", according to the good Professor, is: "A composition for a single voice, or instrument, or a passage for single voice or instrument introduced in an ensemble composition." It is, once more, the second part of the definition that fits what we are discussing here. So how is this different from a melody? I would say the melody emphasizes the notes as they fit into the entire composition, the solo emphasizes the instrument. A melody could be played by any instrument and still be the melody; a guitar solo cannot be played by a piano and still be a guitar solo. It may still be a solo, but the basic characterization has changed, since the instrument has changed (and, nice sounding as it is, Fripp's piano sound on "World's My Oyster Soup..." does not change the guitar into a piano - it is still a guitar solo). Of course the solo, usually being the leading part in the harmonized composition, is also usually the melody, but for the reasons of the definition of melody, not because of the definition of a solo. As far as "riff" vs "melody", poor old Professor Elson was far too early to have ever heard of a "riff". However, to me the difference is underpinning vs leading. Riffs, to me, are repeating phrases that are used as an underpinning or base for the other instruments to work around; thus you usually have a melody on top of, and working off of, the riff (Ozzy singing the "Iron Man" melody over the riff). To me, for something to be a riff both continued repetition and being a reference for the other instruments to work around for a lengthy period is the key. It is true that the riff can be emphasized to the point where it becomes the leading part, and thus becomes the melody. Where this happens, however, it is usually only briefly before the riff retreats back under the other instruments. So in conclusion, as I see it, a solo usually is the melody, but the melody is only sometimes presented as a solo; a riff usually isn't a melody, but it can be; and whether the passage in question is improvised or composed does not actually have any bearing on melody, solo, or riff. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:20:15 -0400 From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: Fripp 10th Best Guitarist in August Mojo magazine Fripp is listed as the 10th Best Guitarist in August Mojo magazine, and he's in some good company as you might imagine... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:17:46 -0400 From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: review of Stars.... I saw this review of the new Fripp / Eno. This is a pretty cool site for generally good reviews. I've been introduced to a number of good releases from this website. http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/f/fripp-and-eno/equatorial-stars.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:01:49 -0900 (HADT) From: Phillip Ciskowski Subject: Live in Philadelphia is EXCELLENT! If you don't have this, you need it NOW! Phil Ciskowski ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:21:02 +0100 From: Gary Ormond Subject: Mr. Fripp's Amplifiers, effects and musical equipment Dear ET, this is a first post for me and is made after some time spent looking for and not finding the relevant information anywhere on the web or in your digests. I am interested in learning more about Mr. Fripp's Amplification, effects and other musical equipment, which of course includes guitars (although I already have some small knowledge of this). Could anyone tell me (perhaps even the man himself) what Mr. Fripp's current equipment list consists of or point me in the right direction internet-wise. Many thanks. Gary Ormond www.garyormond.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:29:57 -0700 From: Greg Breit Subject: The Name of This Band... Finally, Rhino has issued "The Name of This Band Is Talking Heads" on CD. I have owned this on vinyl since it came out. I picked up the CD yesterday. Rhino has filled out the original album with additional performances from the same eras covered by the LP. The second record/CD has, in my opinion, the best pre-Crimso Adrian Belew you'll hear anywhere. A lot of fun to hear him do his thing on familiar tunes like "Psycho Killer" which were not on the original LP. I have always thought that the 1980/1981 section of this album best demonstrates the influence of Talking Heads on the Discipline-era Crimson. Even more so than the studio albums, "Fear of Music" and "Remain in Light." Both Fripp and Belew had worked with the band recently, and the jungle grooves explored on "I Zimbra", "The Great Curve", and "Crosseyed and Painless" clearly foreshadow things like "Thela Hun Ginjeet." THG would never have happened had Eno, Fripp, and Belew not crossed paths with Talking Heads around 1979. Highly recommended. The first disc (1977-79) is nothing to sneeze at either. gb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:20:21 -0700 From: Jeff Runkle Subject: NON-KC CD's FOR SALE ON AMAZON ETer's, I just put the following cds on Amazon for quick sale: "Altra Strata" - Blast - $10.00 - Played only a few times - some plastic disc release spokes missing inside case "Bucato" - Paolo Angeli - $12.00 - Played only a few times "Spiral Out" - Willie Oteri - $12.00 - Played only a few times Just look for titles or artist on the Amazon Popular Music search and click on pricing. This is not an auction like ebay. If you're interested, just buy. I priced them to sell. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:56:14 -0400 From: vze6n8vs Subject: Adrian on Talking Heads remaster In case anybody's interested, the remastered (and substantially expanded) version of The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads is now available. It's a 2-disc live set from the band's early days up to the early 80's. Ade is present for every song on disc 2, and the Krim yearnings are quite apparent (he even does an interpretation of Fripp's guitar line on "I Zimbra)! I can definitely see why Robert was so enthusiastic about offering Ade the part of frontman, after hearing this disc, and I now plan on buying the Zappa albums Adrian played on. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:20:05 -0500 From: Rex Fermier Subject: What ever happened to the band FRACTAL? A while back, someone in this fine newsletter turned me on to a band called FRACTAL. I downloaded some of their music from www.music.download.com and was impressed. Definate Fripp influence. I tried to find their web site but is isn't there anymore. I am interested in finding their CD continuum. If anyone has a clue to spare, please let me know the whereabouts of this band and its web site. Thanks, Rex ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1185 *********************************