Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1180 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1180 Wednesday, 7 July 2004 Today's Topics: G3 at Royal Albert Hall Re: the ghost booing soudscapes G3 at BIC Re: G3 Shock G3 Reviews love and hate KC at Poplar Creek, Chicago 1982 - Did It Happen?? Re: kalimba, celeste, or both? G3 gig in Helsinki 18.6.2004 AJ Cole/Steve Vai All Things Crim re. Robert Singing? - Exposure Reply to Bryce Sutherland / G3 at the RAH ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send *all posts* to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com ** Posts intended for the newsletter should have a subject prefix of ETPOST ** Posts intended for an individual newsletter contributor should have a subject prefix of their ET 'Ticket Number', shown at ETxxxxx in their 'From:' line in the newsletter. To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Mike Dickson (ET Newsletter distribution/subscriptions) Nadim S. Haque (ET Webmaster) Toby Howard (ET founder and Newsletter Moderator) Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster Emeritus) The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 06:22:13 +0100 From: David Barnes Subject: G3 at Royal Albert Hall Firstly, many thanks to those ET-ers who've written thoughtful and descriptive reviews of earlier gigs - I'm glad I had an idea of what to expect. Fripp's section was superb. A clear view of him, excellent acoustics, and the level of comments from the uninformed thankfully not too obtrusive. Definitely worth the ticket price just for that. Totally agree with Arthur Haswell's comments on Vai. Couldn't see any common ground whatsoever between his lot and Fripp. What do they talk about on the tour bus? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:06:18 -0700 (PDT) From: sean hollenhors Subject: Re: the ghost if people are comfortable, then the flow of ideas will not be held back by expectation, that's where the heat of debt and happy crimso related nuttery will make the elephant an exciting place. and calling fripp the h word is right out. no one has the right to steal. when three crimso mix tapes explode on you, you take the hint. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 19:48:28 -0700 (PDT) From: sean hollenhors Subject: booing soudscapes i think its funny that people boo the soudscapery. its like booing a tidal wave, only a tidal wave with MIDI pick ups. in that crowd amongst the boos I'll bet some kid dragged to see her old man's fave righteous shredders will walk out in a trance, infected with a terrible case of fripp, a horrible condition that will eventually rupture her ear drums and lighten the wallet. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:02:37 +0100 From: brian.champion Subject: G3 at BIC Finally got to see RF for the first time since Guildford 1982, last night at the BIC. Firstly in response to Roger S, no the sound wasn't too excruciating, though much louder than I seem to recall of old (my age, no doubt) and didn't seem as warm as the old days at the Winter Gardens in B'm'th (rose tints on the ears, obviously). Also the crowd were somewhat more open minded than the European audients, I estimated 22 minutes into the Soundscape before the slow handclapping became obvious. There was a moment, about halfway into the second 'scape when he almost won over the crowd, mainly due, I think, to the fact for the only time there was a pulsing rhythm they could latch on to. But, all too quickly the moment evaporated, and we all retreated back to our basements, to answer the 'phone. I took my 13 year-old son with me, as the only excuse I could think of to justify the cost and over 3 hours travelling to my wife, was that he needed to see these 3 guitar gods. Well 2 of them were known to him and he thoroughly enjoyed Steve and Joe's sets, I must say I found them a little indulgent, though undoubtedly extremely able and technically impressive, I favoured Joe of the two because his set was more varied, encompassing a greater range of musical styles. I'm sure if I were 13 again I would probably be enraptured by the overall spectacle and sheer energy of their performances. In the final G2.5 set the high point for me was certainly the version of Red which even my son acknowledged "rocked". RFs sound was much lower in the mix than the other two, maybe that was how he wanted it, in keeping with the other low profile strategies he was adopting, but I was smug in the knowledge that I "got it", and everyone else was missing the point, just like every other day in the comatorium. To sum up then 25 minutes of somewhat polluted soundscapes and a 10 minute version of Red interspersed with 120 minutes of OTT guitar histrionics, would I go again? Absolutely. All the best, Snail PS Alan, doesn't TEDIOUS have three syllables? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 13:09:10 -0400 From: Patrick Gaudin Subject: Re: G3 Shock Bryce quoted in ET 1179: Anyway, here's an interesting tidbit. My friend went to see Jeff Beck in Manchester the other day, and met A.J. Cole (guitarist/singer for Steve Vai). Here's what Cole said: "When Fripp was lined up for G3, Vai asked Joe who Fripp was and Joe said, "Oh King Crimson - he's a legend you know!" sort of thing. After a few shows, Vai said to me, "Don't tell Joe, but this schmuck he arranged plays like really bad film score music." Firstly, Fripp has been on a G3 tour previously with Vai and Satch back around '97, so I seriously doubt Vai had to ask Satriani who Fripp was. If Fripp was so abhorrent to Vai, he more than likely wouldn't have been allowed a second chance at G3. Secondly, Steve Vai is not some 25 year-old. He is definitely old enough and knowledgeable enough of the history of rock to not know of a guitarist/legend such as Robert Fripp. I would take this story with a HUGE grain of salt. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:12:49 +0100 From: Richard Rogers Subject: G3 Reviews I just thought that I'd add my 2 cents to this 'going nowhere' post. Yes, the majority of Vai's fans do not enjoy Fripps soundscapes. This is because they come to a concert expecting something more in line with what they have heard from Vai, Satriani and even Fripp in the past. And maybe the majority of Fripps fans do not enjoy Vai and Satriani. This, to me anyway, is the wonder of the variations in guitar music. But for ET posters to start bemoaning Vai and Satriani is just being snobbish. King Crimson and Fripp have never received much in the ways of positive press from so called musical critics and experts. Likewise, Vai and Satriani have also never received the positive press that they DO deserve. I attended the Birmingham show, and I enjoyed Fripps set, despite the less than welcoming audience. But then again, this audience was about as charming as some of King Crimsons audiences have been in the past. Trust me, I've been there. The audience may not have 'got' Roberts performance. This, I suspect, was because the music that Robert composes and performs is very personal to him and also highly emotional. Steve Vai however is a completely different character to Robert Fripp. He is totally self-deprecating and does not take himself too seriously. He also enjoys playing music that he knows people will want to hear. Both differing musicians, both very enjoyable. And I seriously doubt that Steve Vai made any such belittling comments about Robert Fripps soundscapes. They toured together as G3 in 1996/97 and now again in 2004. And Steve is also a good friend of Adrian Belew and also a major fan of King Crimson. Well, that's all I have to say. But just remember, Steve Vai is an indie artist, just like Robert Fripp, struggling to survive in a world of 'big-business' music. He deserves our support as much as Robert deserves the same suppport from Steve's fans. Thank you ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 16:37:03 +0200 From: bolopion\.frederic Subject: love and hate Hello there. Though I haven=92t been reading too much Elephant Talk, Ha= te Letters sent by some Crimson enthusiasts (or at least people who look like they=92re interested in the band) have surprised me a bit. In order to improve their skill in criticism, these demanding people concentrate on various topics : - The boys in the band are not as good as the ones of the previous line-ups. - The pieces they create arenot as good as the old ones. - They don't play enough material from the Good Old Days. - Some British guy sitting on the guitar stool doesn't pay enough attention to his audience. Instead, he focuses on the music. It seems to me that people should trust a musician's choice now and then. Why waste your time and energy (and money, since some of us even go to shows to hear something they don=92t want to hear) to be mean to a band that you're supposed to like ? In my opinion, many other (so-called) groups are better suited to receive our spiteful messages. Frederic. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 06:32:06 EDT From: Bassdude007 Subject: KC at Poplar Creek, Chicago 1982 - Did It Happen?? Hey all... It's been awhile since my last post, but I needed to find some resolve on this issue if anyone can help me out here. Regarding a show that Did or Did not happen on August 7, 1982 at The Poplar Creek Music Theatre in Hoffman Estates, Illinois (Chicago suburb). I KNOW this is years ago, but this matter only came to mind because of conflicting info I have recieved. I wanted to go to that show, but was in Michigan on business at the time for an extended period. I have heard that the show was cancelled due to electrical or technical problems. I have heard that this show was cancelled to to very inclement weather. I have also talked to someone at a KC show who said he was there and it was performed. In the Young Person's Guide to KC, AND in the Frame by Frame Box set it shows that INDEED this show was performed (or at least scheduled). Was anyone there to see it??? What is the real story?? I have seen Crim 7 times since the double trio days, and this particular venue date has been subject to discussion at least twice. Thanx all for your help... P.S. - If it DID happen, does anyone know if any recordings were made at this performance. Maybe a set-List?? Thanx again Peace!! Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 20:41:00 -0500 From: Buzz Fenner Subject: Re: kalimba, celeste, or both? In ET 1179 Gregory Scott Stevens wrote: I have the original issue of The Great Deceiver box and yup, mine has the disc 3 & 4 mistake too. Also, the fellow who mentioned the kalimba ("thumb piano") as the thing at the start of LTIA pt.1 is right, I think. And thanks to Daniel Chinn for some interesting info on esoteric instruments. But the guy who described what we hear as as a celeste is also right, just at a different part of the piece. Right at the very end number after the swelling bass-heavy final crescendo the little fading "Tinkerbell" sound is indeed a celeste. The guy mentioning the celeste would have been me; I got dissed over it (deserved) as I was wrong. For some strange reason, I had the tail end of the song on my mind at the time I wrote that post. Or maybe it was because I remember getting real jazzed when I got to play one in a percussion recital back when I was in college . Oh yeah, my copy of the TGD box set also has the error. Buzz Fenner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 02:25:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Petri Haapa Subject: G3 gig in Helsinki 18.6.2004 I was very disappointed when i returned from the gig. I only went listen and watching Fripp. I'm not at all intrested in those other guys. I already knew that Fripp will be sitting but i was disappointed that he was sitting so far back amongst the amplifiers and other stuff. it was hard to even notice he was playing guitar and the highlight of the gig was listening Fripp's soundscapes. That i could do at home listening to his recorded sounscapes. Someone did mention that a wise general chooses the battlefield that he'll fight. That wasn't the right battlefield for Fripp. I was thrilled when Joe Satriani announced that next they would play King Crimson's "Red" . But when they started to play, they almost succeeded to ruin the whole piece by those endless "Spinal Tap"- guitarsolos that did not fit in the piece's athmosphere. Fripp'solo was brilliant, though - of course;-) Petri Haapa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 12:22:36 -0700 (PDT) From: David Alston Subject: AJ Cole/Steve Vai Apparently, this AJ Cole person may have been mistaken. On Robert Fripp's diary, he mentions having a conversation with Steve Vai in which Vai tells Fripp that he saw him in concert (solo act) prior to Fripp beginning Crimson again for "Discipline." These guys are both fairly familiar with Fripp. My guess on why Fripp was included in the tour is both homage and also business sense. I'm sure Vai and Satch both would make less from the tour if they had another shredder on tour with a huge production, band, road manager, etc. With Fripp on the tour, Vai and Satch are the stars and they have a warm-up act with great credibility and artistic reputation. Not to mention, maybe Vai and Satch just wanted to do something different. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 18:06:22 -0400 From: Mike Subject: All Things Crim Hello CrimFanatics, My website on King Crimson, All Things Crim, has a new look and a new link. Please check it out when you all have the time. Thanks and don't forget to sign the guestbook to let the world know you were there. Cheers, Mike http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ALLTHINGSCRIM0 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 04:25:16 -0700 (PDT) From: russell Subject: re. Robert Singing? - Exposure David K asks: > Here's a question for those with Deeper Knowledge: > On the Exposure recording, on the first track - "Preface" - 10 seconds into > the track there's a harmonized barber-shoppish "Ah....." Who is singing > this??? Is this Robert actually singing?? I've always assumed this to be Brian Eno's voice - to my ears it sounds like him, and the sort of thing he would attempt. The voice that immediately follows ("actually no I won't start like that... " with a piano in the background) is easily recognisable as Peter Gabriel - but I think this is likely an outtake from the Here Comes the Flood session rather than connected to the previous piece. > P.S. If you've not tried it yet, Exposure rocks. Definitely. Still my all-time favourite album. I just wish I had a better copy of the LP mix (my original copy is all worn and crackly). Oh - and "flying sheep" is the first sketch in the very first Monty Python programme. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 21:12:12 +0100 From: Paul Baker Subject: Reply to Bryce Sutherland / G3 at the RAH I had to reply to your posting, simply because of the inaccuracies in it. I consider myself both a big Robert Fripp / King Crimson fan, and also a big fan of Steve Vai. I can find no mention of any A.J. Cole on any Steve Vai recording, though I am aware of a musician called B. J. Cole who plays pedal steel guitar. Could you please tell us of any Steve Vai tracks that either of the Mr. Cole's have sung on ? Steve studied music at Berklee College of Music before joining Frank Zappa's band in 1981. I cannot believe that Steve wasn't aware of King Crimson / Robert Fripp even then, never mind being unaware of Robert until Joe Satriani 'told' him a few weeks ago. Frankly, the comment is beyond contempt. I thought Robert a strange choice for the G3 tour because I doubted he would get the quiet, almost library like, atmosphere that the soundscapes need. A couple of small web cams showing the audience what he was doing in greater detail would have enhanced the performance a great deal. I enjoyed the gig, and hope that Robert will tour the U.K. again, but I won't be holding my breath. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1180 *********************************