Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1179 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1179 Tuesday, 29 June 2004 Today's Topics: G3 Comments at Vai's Site about Fripp 21st Century Schizoid Band / Fripp in Southamerica? kalimba, celeste, or both? Re: Help me find this band Re: G3 update Re: Haaden Two/Robert As A Singer? +G3 Shock Technical question re Club 24 Live in Guildford - Robert Singing? - Exposure GIG REVIEW: G3 at City Hall, Newcastle GIG REVIEW: G3 at the Clyde Auditorium, Glasgow: 23rd June 2004 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send *all posts* to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com ** Posts intended for the newsletter should have a subject prefix of ETPOST ** Posts intended for an individual newsletter contributor should have a subject prefix of their ET 'Ticket Number', shown at ETxxxxx in their 'From:' line in the newsletter. 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If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 23:40:46 +0100 From: Roger Shannon Subject: G3 Hi, as an update on the European dates which Dave (see below) had been reading about, seems that Glasgow gave everyone a warm welcome. Check out http://vai.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5790 Just hoping that the crowd in Bournemouth is open minded on Sunday! And that the usually excruciating sound at the BIC doesn't make the entire event unlistenable. cheers Roger >Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:30:41 +0100 >From: MOREMAN Alun Dave >Subject: Comments on RF with G3 > >Hi, > >A number of somewhat negative comments on RF's inclusion in the G3 tour >are >being aired at : > >http://vai.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=32 > >Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 21:44:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Patrick Gaudin Subject: Comments at Vai's Site about Fripp I finally had to speak out at Steve Vai's website about all of the people moaning and groaning about having to be exposed to 30-40 minutes of evil soundscapes before Vai and Satch. Here's the link. I'm the third one down under the name KingCrimson#1 http://www.vai.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5816 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 21:26:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Edgar Kausel E. Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band / Fripp in Southamerica? Hi all, I write just to strongly recommend the 21SB DVD. Buy it at Gary's shop or anywhere, but do it. It's a jewel. Even if I like Wallace drumming, it's sad Mike Giles left. I recall someone already asked and nobody answered, so here I come again: Does anybody know why Mike Giles left? In the other hand, G3 with Fripp are coming to Santiago, Chile, Southamerica, or that's what our press is saying... Edgar Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:13:49 -0500 From: Gregory Scott Stevens Subject: kalimba, celeste, or both? Hey, fellow Crimheads! I have the original issue of The Great Deceiver box and yup, mine has the disc 3 & 4 mistake too. Also, the fellow who mentioned the kalimba ("thumb piano") as the thing at the start of LTIA pt.1 is right, I think. And thanks to Daniel Chinn for some interesting info on esoteric instruments. But the guy who described what we hear as as a celeste is also right, just at a different part of the piece. Right at the very end number after the swelling bass-heavy final crescendo the little fading "Tinkerbell" sound is indeed a celeste. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 13:54:30 -0300 From: Stratomailer Subject: Re: Help me find this band Reid Black wrote: 'A while ago I read an article about a band made up of sisters and/or brothers who were forced to practice and record by their parents. The end result was one that was so bad that it was good. I can't remember their name anymore so I thought I'd ask a bunch of music listeners with great taste if they know anything about it.' The only band I can think of that is along those lines are "The Osmonds". They were all brothers and sisters, and their parents were friggin' control freaks who put them to work all the time... or so I got from that Hallmark film they did on them. I dunno about them being "so bad that it was good", but hey, whatever rocks your boat. Luis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:58:30 -0400 From: nick douglas Subject: Re: G3 update Robert's "music for finding your seat" soundscaping defied expectations to the point that one ET'er in #1178 calls it "tedious" and another calls RF an unwise general. Way to go, Robert! Solo improv lives! I did follow the link to some reviews on vai.c easily amused, Nick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:37:28 +0100 (BST) From: Bryce Sutherland Subject: Re: Haaden Two/Robert As A Singer? +G3 Shock The sample in Haaden Two sounds nothing like Graham Chapman, or any of the Monty Python crew, but it cetainly sounds like something they'd say! Maybe something was slightly slowed down or speeded up, and that's why it doesn't sound like him. Oh well, thanks troops. And about The King Crimson Barbershop Quartet... my bad! I just assumed it was the whole gang. It did cross my mind that it really didn't sound like something Fripp would appear on. What I mean is, I thought he'd be reluctant to sing. Basically. After reading people's thoughts on G3, I thought I'd add my bit too. I've not seen G3 (I was meant to see them in Glasgow, but ended up working instead), but I'd have gone to see Fripp alone, despite people saying it was a waste of time. I have no time for Vai or Satriani... and I love Fripp's soundscapes. Since King Crimson never tour the UK anymore, that would have been my only chance to see Fripp in the flesh (probably). Anyway, here's an interesting tidbit. My friend went to see Jeff Beck in Manchester the other day, and met A.J. Cole (guitarist/singer for Steve Vai). Here's what Cole said: "When Fripp was lined up for G3, Vai asked Joe who Fripp was and Joe said, "Oh King Crimson - he's a legend you know!" sort of thing. After a few shows, Vai said to me, "Don't tell Joe, but this schmuck he arranged plays like really bad film score music." More reason for me to hate Vai! Bryce ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 19:29:35 +1200 From: David Maclennan Subject: Technical question re Club 24 Live in Guildford Am I right in assuming that the tape break-up at the end of Exiles on Club 24 (Live in Guildford) is "deliberate" (i.e. on the original tape)? Cheers, David Maclennan (First posting to this list in a looooong time...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 21:28:49 -0400 From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: - Robert Singing? - Exposure Here's a question for those with Deeper Knowledge: On the Exposure recording, on the first track - "Preface" - 10 seconds into the track there's a harmonized barber-shoppish "Ah....." Who is singing this??? Is this Robert actually singing?? David Kirkdorffer P.S. If you've not tried it yet, Exposure rocks. It's an explosion of energy and taughtness encompassing and exploring the range of Fripp's concerns with melodic beauty and architectural tension juxtaposition, that quite naturally (with hindsight) bridges the space between the denser pieces on RED and the sparser pieces on Discipline. The sound of Hell's Kitchen and brimming with personal angles and insights, this 1978 recording sounds so contemporary when placed alongside the 80's resurgence epitomized in the awesomeness of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and Franz Ferdinand. And those early Frippertronics, in their starkness, really do evoke a time when rock was new again, and had not yet fallen prey to ironic "post-isms" or nostalgic throwbacks. In many ways I suggest it's the last recording that seemed to follow in a European tradition that Fripp did until working with his wife or later with David Sylvian. "Where walking out is just another metaphor! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 10:02:19 +0100 From: Arthur Haswell Subject: GIG REVIEW: G3 at City Hall, Newcastle Having read some reviews of the G3 tour so far, I knew what to expect: a Fripp soundscape followed by Vai and Satch sets, finishing with all three on stage. Before the gig I began to wish I hadn't bothered booking because the thought of sitting through two hours of guitar-hero crap was depressing. The news that Fripp had been booed by the audience only added to my wariness. Then, when we arrived, we found our seats in the balcony were on the same side as fripp so when he started playing we couldn't even see him. However, in a moment of absolute magic, we went to the very end of the balcony and found ourselves literally above his head, with a white spot shinning straight down onto him. We had the best seats in the house for Fripp and were able to see his fingers on the frets and sense his spirit as he played. The soundscape started calmly, building very very gradually with low notes that buzzed into the hall. That became a relatively calm wash of sound but then that faded and he played notes that were more jarring, 7ths and 2nds I think, adding more and more on top until the pulsing of the sound and the tension was fantastic and palpable in the hall. This was quite simply the most fantasticly moving thing I have heard live in a long time, the sense of his having found this moment through improvising adding to the wonderment. As that eventually faded in pulses of digital delay feedback the silence that ensued was filled with slow hand-clapping from the centre of the stalls, a reaction that simply deepened the emotion of what Fripp had achieved. But he wasn't finished yet. He brought in a sound like a human cry, doubled, tripled until a choir of voices built up and engulfed the slow-hand-clapping, beating them down with its power as well as its volume. This seering music rose to a positive affirming climax to fade gradually as Fripp, checking his watch for the third or fourth time, quietly rose, put down his guitar, and walked off stage. I felt truly elated and privileged to have been there and would have hated the awful and crass performer/audience interaction because this was not a normal rock moment. The point is, that what Fripp attempts in his soundscapes is to invoke the sublime. That is about as far away from what Vai wants to do as it is possible to get. The proof came as Vai wandered on, sat and played a three-necked guitar. My partner leaned over and said 'Spinal Tap!' An electric fan in front of him kept his flowing hair quivering and blowing as though in an open car. And the sounds he chose from the start were the ugliest imaginable. The band that came on were rudimentary. There were moments when Vai found a phrase that stood out for its beauty or fitness, but mostly everything was basically simple but overcomlicated in exectuion to the extend where I longed for some genuine or memorable musical idea. After an hour of mutual masterbation, he and the audience gave it a rest. Jo Satch at least played straight ahead rock, largely without the vocals. As with Vai, I was disappointed at the narrowness of the tonal range. There was nothing interesting harmonically. Worse, his guitar got louder and more raucous until by the end of his set the drummer, flailing madly, was completely inaudible. The addition of Vai for the last numbers meant that the two lead guitars drowned everyone else in a haze of shrieking unfocussed noise. The bass was booming and indefinable. Fripp, joining in, was inaudible. His fingers moved when he soloed, but all we heard was the buzz from Vai and Satch=92s guitars. Only once did Fripp=92s work cut through, on the third solo, when he found a figure in the middle of the range and suddenly cut the flurries and held long notes. Otherwise there was no tension-release and no dynamics. They tried 'RED' but left off the marvellous opening rising scales and turned the central melody into another endless riff over which they soloed interminably. It was, at least, the best riff of the night. That made me realise how important precision is to the success of KC and RF. The Vai and Satch fans were largely friendly towards Fripp. Even the slow handclaps weren't hostile. One geordie voice shouted, half way through the soundscape, shouted with a certain humour 'Why don't ya do something!'. I wasn=92t, as I=92d expected to be, angry at him, only amused. But that's the point. the only way to appreciate a soundscape is to receive it as a spiritual experience. It is no co-incidence that the cover of 'The Gates of Paradise' is like a Barnett Newman painting, for he, like Rothko, was aiming at inducing the sublime. For me, Fripp achieved that at the City Hall on Friday night and I would like to thank him for that gift. Arthur Haswell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:55:40 +0100 From: Elmo' Macdonald Subject: GIG REVIEW: G3 at the Clyde Auditorium, Glasgow: 23rd June 2004 G3 at the Clyde Auditorium, Glasgow: 23rd June 2004 Vai sashays like a girl. Satriani clumps about like a bluecollar worker. Fripp is still. I'd expected him to be seated, but Robert Fripp was part of the equipment! He was a good ten feet behind the amp line and only visible from the waist up. If RF had been more visible, people who were unfamiliar with his "act" might at least have been able to see what he was doing, and given it a chance (aside from a "knob-twiddling" section, the actual music sounded like an evolving synth pad - "..not much of a beat to it..."). As expected, the Soundscapes material didn't connect with the metal-heads who were there for the Vai/Satriani show. I couldn't tune into RF's part of the show for people heading to/from the bar (conversations around me were reaching higher SPLs than the music!). The most surreal part of the show (for me) was when they played a section of "Red", bookended by a slice of "In The Court Of The Crimson King" - Vai and Satriani played most of it and, when RF took a short lead break, his mid-heavy tone was lost in the mix! At the curtain call, the players on the last section came out front and took a bow. With the exception of RF... He was still glued to his spot amongst the equipment, applauding the others, encouraging audience applause - tacitly communicating his role as a sideman? ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1179 *********************************