Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1167 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1167 Sunday, 18 January 2004 Today's Topics: new versions of Fripp & Eno books available for download Fripp Thee Lead - Footed Jittery Spasmodic ... NOT ! The Power To Believe Art Shikata ga nai Red CD Fripp used wah-wah pedals quite a lot Wah not Re: Drummers w/ all arms dokaka Re: That Which Speaks to Robert Fripp Re: Mars Volta... Howard Stern and King Crimson Re: wah not Re: Tom Ace and Fripp Using a Wah Wah. Re: Gordon Haskell/Bands That Sound Like Crimson Bands that sound like..... Robert Fripp/wah wah Re: Trey Gunn soundscapes covers Wah and Volta New Topics on ET Re: Howard Stern doing a cover of Court/Sound of the Beast ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Mike Dickson (ET Newsletter distribution/subscriptions) Nadim S. Haque (ET Webmaster) Toby Howard (ET founder and Newsletter Moderator) Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster Emeritus) The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:54:17 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Tamm Subject: new versions of Fripp & Eno books available for download I thought that the Elephant Talking People might be interested to know that I have just posted new, vastly improved Word files of my books on my website. The talented Moscow-based translator Andrei Rouliakov spent many hours of his free time cleaning up my original files and adding a wealth of hypertext links that make navigating within the text and critical apparatus (footnotes etc.) incredibly easy. They also print out better. Thanks again Andrei! The new files are available for free at http://www.erictamm.com/ Cheers, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:30:01 -0800 (PST) From: Turtle Da Mannn Subject: Fripp Thee Lead - Footed Jittery Spasmodic ... NOT ! I have to chime in on the Mr. Ace's non observance of Bobby " Wah Wah " Fripper's usage of the simple device ... wah wah . Mr. Fripp has used a wah wah from the beginning of his professional KC career but not in the Guitar Gods commoner's style . He used the Vox and Cry Baby wah in his early line ups , as a crude activated EQ tone control ( pre amp ) setup and on an occassion a momentary flatulence of the foot muscle would make a familar spurt of wobbles commonally known as " Wah Wah " . Never take Mr. Fripp for granted to appear the obvious . What you hear is interwoven auditory roots of a diverse sum to produce a singular trunk of tone . In reality many of KC' s early opuses has wah wah on it but you did'nt realize it because of it's style of execution . He is an explorative musical scientist in the purest sense and daring . Willing to try the unexpected to fill his cup of sonically eccentric and artistic complexities of musical discovery. A true pioneer in a field of sundry hollow impostors and sodden jesters . A tip of the pork pie to the godfather of a manifold of conscious substratum excursions in our musical universe . So Mr. Ace it was wise on your part to ask upon others for the answer of wah wah from beyond your own partial apperception . An almost ghastly mistake on your part of pulling the plug on one's innovated use of a simple device and well deserved credit for artistic techical boundary leaping . TURTLE DA MANNN OF TURTLE CIRCUS St. louis " Mississippi " Missouri , USA I WAS THERE !!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:15:12 -0600 From: wviland at thin-film dot com Subject: The Power To Believe Art I recently took a vacation to St. Martin and chose to wear my TPTB T-shirt with the cover art during my journey home. I had several strangers compelled to approach and ask "What is that?" It seems, whenever I wear the shirt someone asks what the art is suppose to mean. My standard answer is "What does it mean to you?" I sometimes suggest the nurse is preparing the new born for living in the environment it has been born into. So I will ask the question, "What does the art work for "The Power To Believe" mean to others? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 05:01:28 +0000 From: "mono chrome" Subject: Shikata ga nai There is an interview with Robert Fripp available at http://www.king-crimson.com that touches on a few interesting points. One of these is the concept of 'Shoganai'. I came across a reading that might add to this, and quite possible spawned the topic in the first place. Firstly, the relevent extract from the interview: ~/~ RF: Anyone that might read newspapers, or go to work over a period of 20 or 30 years, and for those of us who act within a commercial culture, even before we turn on satellite news from around the world - a reasonable person might despair. If all that is open to us is the information on offer, then life is too hard. So, perhaps a reasonable response is simply to give up. There's nothing we can do. In terms of the EP Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With, the Japanese title of the EP is Shoganai, which in Japan has a very, very different resonance. A French translation might be c'est la vie. An English approach would be that's life. But neither of these quite have the flavour of the Japanese, which is more or less along the lines of 'two atomic bombs have gone off... that's life!' Well, it's a bit more than 'that's life!' It's shoganai. Q: It's fate? RF: Well, that's another expression. But if two bombs went off down the road from me, I think I might say a bit more than that's fate! In Japan shoganai is a wonderfully multivalent word which covers just about every circumstance: from 'someone I love has just been crushed on the subway' to 'there is no hope whatsoever'. It can be a very powerfully emotive word in Japan. You have a sense of hopelessness and despair - a reasonable person might despair. On the other hand, hope is unreasonable. And love is greater than this. So here you have the balance: life is hopeless, there is hope. How to hold these two in balance in a very strange world? For me, this is the thinking behind the album and the EP which leads up to it. ~/~ And now the reading, from John Hersey's 'Hiroshima' (Penguin Books, 1946): "The atom bomb," [Mrs. Nakamura] would say when asked about it, "is the size of a matchbox. The heat of it is six thousand times that of the sun. It exploded in the air. There is some radium in it. I don't know just how it works, but when the radium is put together, it explodes." As for the use of the bomb, she would say, "It was war and we had to expect it." And then she would add, "Shikata ga nai." a Japanese expression as common as, and correspondiong to, the Russian word "nichevo": "It can't be helped. Oh, well. Too bad." Dr. Fujii said approximately the same thing about the use of the bomb to Father Kleinsorge one evening, in German: "Da ist nichts zu machen. There's nothing to be done about it." (p116-117) ~/~ Some closing thoughts offered for discussion/disection: How much despair can be lumped onto a soul before it collapses into catatonia and numb acceptance? It seems the world is all to eager to submit to the lesser explanation and the lesser goal. So quickly is hope dismissed in the face of such aggression. That's life, indeed. Love may be one way out. I suppose music is another - when music tries to make itself known in our sorry world, perhaps there is an offering of salvation and escape from the helpless cycle of Shoganai / Shikata ga nai. All it requires is that we invite it in, and then listen. Perhaps this is the grounding from which Fripp tries to claw out of the cycle. Why accept the ways of the music industry with "c'est la vie" or "nichevo"? That would be the weaker response. Productive responses could manifest as inviting the audience to meet performances halfway (mutual effort and no theft of spirit); holding a plectrum in a more effecient way, so as to be a better creative tool of/for Music; cherishing and respecting the moments when Silence speaks... I'm beginning to see how this is so much more that a way of music for him. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:02:56 -0500 From: "Brad Berman" Subject: Red CD Today, I listened to RED in its entirety. It occured to me that RED is one of a handful of landmark recordings. It has an awesome dynamic power. I was wondering if there was any way you could pass this thought to maestro Fripp. How about a 30th anniversary tribute to RED (recorded in 1974) done by the Crimson clan themselves. Reuniting the magnificent John Wetton & Fripp again for recording would be tremendous. Most tributes are kind of weak (i know there is a KC tribute out there). A tribute by the artists themselves seems pretentious, but who could better re-create that awesome whale of a sound heard on RED than the kings themselves. By the way, 2 of the Kings best albums use color in the title and rest assured I'm impressed with the King's recordings after King resurfaced in I believe 81 and their side projects like Space Groove- great recording. See what you can do to get this message in the right hands. Please keep me posted. Regards, Brad D. Berman Cincinnati, Ohio (near Adrian Belew stomping grounds) RED AGAIN! P.S. RED is kind of short. Please find out if there are any outtakes, etc. from the original recordings that could be part of a RED AGAIN project. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:24:22 -0500 From: "David" Subject: Fripp used wah-wah pedals quite a lot Robert Fripp certainly used a wah-wah pedal in days of yore... Says Fripp, in a May 1974 Guitar Player interview: "On stage I use three pedals on a pedal board: A volume pedal, fuzz-tone, and wah-wah. The fuzz-tone and wah-wah are pretty rubbishy. I'm not sure what type of wah-wah it is. " and Guitar Player: Why haven't you used the wah-wah pedal more besides on the live album Earthbound? Fripp: Because the wah-wah pedal used in it's normal way bores me intensely. Guitar Player: Do you feel your music has ever become a victim of all the devices? Fripp: Possibly. I mean, you tell me. Sometimes, I suppose, if one is playing something which is particularly banal musically, then to make it a little more exciting one might switch on one's wah-wah. Is that a form of escape? If it is, then yes, I do use devices to cover up bad playing from time to time. Read more here: http://www.elephant-talk.com/intervws/fripp-gp.htm Also In January, 1986, Robert Fripp was featured in Guitar Player magazine. GP - What kinds of electronic devices did you use besides two Revoxes? RF - I generally use a small pedalboard with a volume, wah-wah and fuzz. http://www.elephant-talk.com/intervws/fripp-g2.htm I think the famous Pete Cornish made his early pedal board and Tony Arnold made his later-day units.... I hope that helps answer the wah-wah question. David Kirkdorffer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:25:36 +0000 From: "Red Dog" Subject: Wah not Until around 1979, a wah-wah pedal had a presence on the Frippedal board, as can be heard on Earthbound and USA during solos - albiet used in a more inventive fashion that was the norm. Although I reserve the right to be completely wrong, I believe it was abandoned - along with Mr Cornish's handiwork - when the Roland guitar synth became Mr F's weapon of choice. Using the wah-wah as a tone control was explored by Jimi Hendrix, which in turn encouraged Stevie Ray Vaughan to try unorthodox methods such as multiple pedals in series - but I doubt if either had much influence on the young Mr F. Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:04:37 -0500 From: "vze6n8vs" Subject: Re: Drummers w/ all arms In ET #1166, Marc Deprey said: "Gabriel's new drummer is an arm player too and this leads to a very unexpressive result. So I guess as a drummer, I'm disappointed with both DVDs. So much of drumming has to do with energy flow and from what I can see these guys tap into it rarelythey basically just pound it out." I'm gonna have to disagree about him. Notice the jam before "The Barry Williams Show," as well as the quiet section in the middle of "Animal Nation." He's got the wrist where it counts. In fact, I'm almost inclined to say he reminds me of a young Bruford, both in appearance (minus the bald head) and playing. He lays into it with his arms during some songs, but overall I think he's got the capacity for wrist flexibility and deftness. Marc also said: "Now that TG is gone I'm fearing for the direction of percussion in the band. Levin plays in a very open style(compared to TG) so there's lots of room to wiggle your wrists in. Not sure PM's the man." I shared some of this sentiment. But then I listened to CG3+2 (California Guitar Trio plus PM and TL). I think they worked together quite nicely on that CD, especially in some of the more groove-driven tracks like "Swampy Space." I miss Bruford and all, but something tells me a seasoned pro like Levin will be able to adapt to anything the new KC throws his way. That's all, Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:36:26 +0100 From: Duncan James Subject: dokaka Greetings, If you fancy a little light entertainment try a peer to peer search of a band or artist called DOKAKA. They/he does amazing acapella versions of tunes that you would normaly put firmly in the "should under no circumstances be attempted" category. All sorts of wierdness, including (drum roll with poly rhythmic accents) some old Crim instrumentals namely Fracture and Larks Pt2. Madly creative arrangements. I thought Id never stop laughing actually. I have no informationon of the from where/by whom kind. If anyone knows any more about the DOKAKA, let us all know. I found it as an mp3 on Limewire by the way. Duncan James Zurich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:51:34 -0500 From: "dennis m parrott" Subject: Re: That Which Speaks to Robert Fripp > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:11:27 +0000 > From: "mono chrome" > Subject: That Which Speaks to Robert Fripp > > So we have established that Robert Fripp is not King > Crimson, and he too has abundantly denied leadership > or ownership of this musical entity. >...SNIP... > Could there be a King Crimson without Robert Fripp? Absolutely. It might sound a little differently when played out using other people as the lens that focuses the spirit but _if_ KC is more about giving a spirit some sort of worldly form why should we assume that ONLY Robert can make it happen? All we really _know_ is that Robert is the _only_ common thread between the incarnations of King Crimson. I would suggest that you listen to some of the music ex-KC members play in their spare time. In particular, listen to BLUE -- it had many elements that reminded me of KC. While it isn't called KC, it sometimes sounds a lot like various incarnations of KC. Who is to say what that spirit really sounds like anyway? Again, all we really know is that Robert says it has affected the band known as KC... Might that spirit get a little bored and express itself in different ways through others? I am sure there are musicologists out there that will disagree with me. They'll cite all manner of things like meter, tempo, chord changes and what-not. And that is fine. This idea is more of an "article of faith" with me than a provable, scientific sort of thing. So like, disagree with me if you want. I'll just shrug and say "OK, that is your opinion". If you don't like my rambling, overly mystical metaphysical meanderings, file 'em in "File 13" and we'll just all get along, eh? I'd actually like to sit and discuss this one with guys like Tony, Bill, Pat, Trey and Ade over a beer. Wonder what they think of the notion of a Frippless Crimson? Wonder if any of them would like to try? dennis -------- [BLUE - Bruford Levin Upper Extremities] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:50:49 -0500 (EST) From: justin314 at webtv dot net (Justin) Subject: Re: Mars Volta... Mars Volta have listed KC as an influence, along with Yes, Rush, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Santana, etc. I don't believe the KC influence is as apparent in the sound as the others listed, maybe not at all. In a recent interview, Mars Volta guitarist, Omar Rodriguez, mentioned not even being able to read music and something about not wanting to/ being able to be as disciplined as KC. So i would say KC is more of an inspiration and something they enjoy listening to, more than actually effecting their sound, if that makes any sense. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:24:26 -0500 From: "Bill Sherman" Subject: Howard Stern and King Crimson Johnakni at aol dot com wrote: > B. Howard Stern doing a cover of Court I liked Howard's previous musical > efforts such as Electric >Comic Book and the Losers on the Magic Johnson > show. The latter had the >Shaggs >so-bad-its-good-quality to it. I have > not been able to heard Howard since >the >separation due to certain > syndications being canceled. Has anybody out >there >heard the Howard > Stern version of In The Court of the Crimson King? Is it >available to > the public on CD? What the Fripp is the Lord of The Anal >Rings? >Holy > Sinfield! The Howard Stern version of "In the Court ..." is amusing but solid in an earnest, amateurish sort of way. Howard and his in-studio crew have an ongoing (although recently lapsed) tradition of challenging bands headed by non-musical celebrities. Say an actor or athlete has a band on the side; Howard will invite them to the studio for a "battle of the bands" judged by neutral music journalists/critics. Howard's group, "the Losers", consisting of on-air staff and station personnel, has never lost. They've beaten bands headed by the likes of Tina Yothers (actress), Doug Flutie (athlete) and Tim Russ (actor). On one of these occasions, the Losers played "In the Court of the Crimson King" and did a credible garage-band version carried largely by Howard's enthusiasm as a vocalist. When the band was preparing and rehearsing this song on the air, word came from the office that none of the show interns (students working for school credit, in their early 20s) had ever heard the song before, and they were all saying "what on earth is this?" The song is not available legally but there are lots and lots of Howard Stern fansites where fans can download illegal clips of the show. Happy hunting. "Lord of the Anal Rings" is a title bestowed by Howard on sidekick Artie Lange for his prowess at Anal Ring Toss. Anal Ring Toss is a competition where some stripper or other volunteer will get naked on all fours on the studio floor with a wooden rod clenched in a certain orifice, while various parties will toss rings at them and score points by landing the ring on the rod. Artie has beaten several celebrity guests at this, including guitarist Dave Navarro, who appeared on the show today with his new wife, actress/model Carmen Electra. Occasionally they will play a cartridge recording of a faux-British announcer saying something along the lines of "prepare yourself for ... the LORD of the ANAL RINGS" over a background of the chorus of "In the Court of the Crimson King", synchronized so that one could imagine singing "Lord of the Anal Rings" in place of "Court of the Crimson King". -Bill Sherman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:19:34 -0600 From: John Michael Beard Subject: Re: wah not >"Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" has an article on the wah-wah sound >(in guitar and also other instruments), which includes Robert Fripp >in a list of "notable guitarists using wah-wah". Problem is, I can't >think of a single recording where Fripp used a wah-wah pedal. I'd say about half the solos from the Bruford/Cross/Wetton era features wah prominently. He does not use it in a Funk manner or as often used in Blues-Rock to accent notes- think Cream-era Clapton. Rather it's usually moved slowly over the course of a phrase. Listen to Roxy-era Zappa, you might more easily pick up on its use, as it's a similar technique, only slightly more obvious. John Michael Beard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:16:12 EST From: IanSharwood at aol dot com Subject: Re: Tom Ace and Fripp Using a Wah Wah. Hi folk Haven't posted for ages but I thought I would put the record straight concerning Robert's use of a wah wah pedal. Listen to the improvs on Earthbound, one of them at least has a wah wah on the rhythm guitar part. In addition I think you will find that he regularly used one in the Wetton/Bruford lineup to provide tonal modulation. Further I think I have heard one used in the same way in the solo from sailors tale on one of the live CD's. Hope that helps. Ian Sharwood ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:19:41 -0500 (EST) From: thedukeofprunes at webtv dot net (Mike) Subject: Re: Gordon Haskell/Bands That Sound Like Crimson Hi Simon, Thanks for the reply in the last E.T. I have always been fond of early Genesis. Was very disappointed after 'Wind & Wuthering'. I have to say 'Foxtrot' and 'Trespass" are my fav Genesis albums of that period. I see your point in them sounding a little Crim, especially in the mellotron/organ department. If you like that sound check out a band called Crucible, very early sounding Genesis influence (I recommend their 'Tall Tales' CD to anyone who is a fan of Genesis and Jethro Tull). I have heard of England and I'm not 100% sure of this but I think they did a second album. Anyone out there know? Cheers, Mike http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ALLTHINGSCRIM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:33:22 -0500 From: BARLETB at Nationwide dot com Subject: Bands that sound like..... One band that has a lot of similarities musically is called Star People.(mind you their "schtick" is that they are aliens that studied the planet by watching old "Rat Pack" movies, and their lyrics and concepts are a bit strange), but their music is VERY similar to the 90's Crim! The lead guitar player who has to be a fan of Robert, has a tone similar to him, as well as very similar phrasing. (and the dude sits on a stool during the performance..coincidence?) I saw them open for another band a few years back and was extremely amazed at their show (and bought their 2 cd's "We are Star People" and "Genius") Definately worth checking out! (AND the bass player reminds me of someone who played in Spinal Tap?!?!) Primus always reminds me of 80's Crim, (Mainly "Pork Soda") whenever I listen to that disc, I always have this urge to grab some "Discipline" or "Three of a Perfect Pair" Most likely because of some of the "textural" moods that both bands seem to exhibit. Cheers! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:31:52 GMT From: scprintup at netzero dot net Subject: Robert Fripp/wah wah Mr. Fripp's use of the wah pedal is most apparent on the live recordings of the 1973-74 KC. USA, Great Deceiver box set, Live in Central Park all come to mind without looking at my CDs (it's 0-dark-thirty here). It might not be apparent to non-guitar players, since Mr. Fripp uses the device to texture the tone of his guitar. He does not stomp on it making the annoying 'whackawhackawhacka' sound that most listeners are familiar with. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:45:24 -0500 (EST) From: thedukeofprunes at webtv dot net (Mike) Subject: Re: Trey Gunn Trey Gunn was never fired by Robert Fripp from Crimson. He left on his own accord which Gunn explains very well on his website. He was never a 'hired hand', he was a full-fledged member. Tony Levin never quit Crimson, he was unable to contribute to the band because of various commitments including being on tour with Seal. Fripp wanted two bass players in the band for a 30 year reunion tour, which now he will have to settle for one. I cannot reveal where I recieved this information from because it would be an invasion on the privacy of my source and the privacy of that person's source who is incidently someone associated with Crimson. So to the person who did the recent post of Trey Gunn being fired, I don't know where you got your info from but I'm sorry, you have been mis-informed. Cheers, Mike http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ALLTHINGSCRIM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:50:46 +0000 From: "stefano dot pavarini at katamail dot com" Subject: soundscapes covers Hi ET people ! I'm looking for pictures of John Miller's artwork, you know the artist of the sounscapes covers. I like his art so much and I don't find nothing on the Net. Thank you for your help. Poldo (italian krimsonian artist) www.poldo59.supereva.it ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:51:28 +0000 (GMT) From: phill dot lister at btinternet dot com Subject: Wah and Volta Tom Ace wrote: >Problem is, I can't think of a single recording where Fripp used >a wah-wah pedal. Well, how about on loads of recordings where he uses it as a tone pedal - gradually swelling instead of chukka-wah funky stuff. And controlling feedback when his set up was basically guitar, pedals and amp. He was playing like this up until the 90s band. There's even funky wah with the Boz band. Johnakni wrote: >There has been a lot of hype in the emo(I have no idea what this genre >means) world that Mars Volta are just like King >Crimson. Well,I listened >to their new album and it din't sound >anything like King Crimson. Is that except for the Exiles riff, the long instrumental groove from Easy Money that appears twice and the Fraktured bits of guitar? They also steal (in tribute) bits of Yes and Zeppelin and work all these influences together into one mighty racket. :-) Phill Lister www.caramba.freeuk.com www.btinternet.com/~breinton.morris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:04:37 -0500 From: "Robert Bennett" Subject: New Topics on ET This is in response to John A. Knights post. I agree, the topics are getting thin on ET as of late. With regard to the Tool Box tour cd, I did not purchase one at the various shows I attended. I regret my decision - or shouldn't I? I don't know what material is on this cd? Is it good, bad, or much of the same as found on Power to Believe and Happy with....? EMO - stands for emotional music - i.e. John Mayer type stuff, where a guy sings heartfelt songs and usually strums a guitar. This seems to be a new "label" which I've seen in music magazines of late. Some of this music is quite good. The Mojo article that touched on progressive music was a loud of crap, if you ask me. I purchased the magazine because I looked forward to the Beatle's article, but also the bit on progressive music (I leafed through the mag at the bookstore and saw a picture of Crimson and thought, "wow great - an article on the much ignored progressive music scene from a British point-of-view"). The article was anything but good or fair or accurate. A big disappointment. On a related theme, I went to the Rock N' Roll Hall Fame in Cleveland, OH recently and was very disappointed that other than Keith Emerson's Hammond Organ, that he use to beat the hell out of during their live shows, there was no exhibits or artifacts from the progressive music scene past or present - almost like this musical style never existed or is something to be shunned. Oh well. I've never heard of Skullflower in the States - has anyone else? I read several music magazines; Rolling Stone, Spin from the States and Uncut from the U.K. I pick-up Mojo on occasion. In general, I think the U.K. music magazines are much better than the U.S. magazines. I would love to see a comprehensive article on progressive music in any of these magazines, but particularly in Rolling Stone, since they do a lot of the "Greatest...." list issues. Is there any thoughts as to why progressive is so ignored?? Bob Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:55:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Bryce Sutherland Subject: Re: Howard Stern doing a cover of Court/Sound of the Beast John A. Knight:- "B. Howard Stern doing a cover of Court Has anybody out there heard the Howard Stern version of In The Court of the Crimson King? Is it available to the public on CD?" I've heard it, I downloaded it a long time ago. I was curious as to see what it was, and I STILL don't know what it was for! I know Howard Stern is an American comedian, but that's about all I know. So can someone shed some light on WHY he and The Losers covered In The Court Of The Crimson King in such a silly way?! John A. Knight:- "F. Sound of The Beast There is a book out about heavy metal. King Crimson is only mentioned on two pages of this mammoth tome. Couldn't they have cut out some of Stryper's space to leave more room for King Crimson,which we all know is the thinking man's version of Black Sabbath?" King Crimson are HARDLY Heavy Metal, are they? Despite being a Heavy Metal fan more than anything else myself, King Crimson are FAR more talented and inventive than 90% of metal bands out there. Although, admittedly, some of the newer material is very heavy... still, that doesn't make it metal. Black Sabbath being my favourite band (tied with King Crimson) I really liked that comparison you made there! ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1167 *********************************