Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1163 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1163 Thursday, 18 December 2003 Today's Topics: KC live 2000 Re: Tony Levin / Trey Gunn new music from Schizoid Band Re: "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" no photos Freebird The return of Tony Now if we can JUST get Bill back ?ducking?. Fripp Diary Postings Re: "Whipping Post & FZ/Schizoid Band Frippism A New Way Reviews Bredonborough/U.K. bands Six degrees of Crimson - Fripper to Teletubbies! Rocking Vicar Larks Tongue and V.W happy with Happy With Thrak cover Live in Mexico City ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Mike Dickson (ET Newsletter distribution/subscriptions) Nadim S. Haque (ET Webmaster) Toby Howard (ET founder and Newsletter Moderator) Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster Emeritus) The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 17:09:36 -0500 From: Chris Lawless Subject: KC live 2000 Hello, I've been trying to find out some information on KC for a while now and I came across your site and thought you might be able to help me (or forward this message to someone associated with the site that can). At any rate, in the booklet for HEAVY CONSTRUKCTION, it says that "documentary videos and individually serialized double CD sets will be available for most shows of TCOL 2000 tour. For more details contact: www.kingcrisontv.com." Well nothing comes up when I go to that site, and I haven't read anything else about these releases. As I attended one of the shows in NYC, I'd be very happy to included that specific concert in my collection if at all possible. So any information you could give me would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, and all the best. Chris Lawless ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 11:12:28 -0600 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: Tony Levin / Trey Gunn John Trevethan wrote: "Most likely Tony would have no problem with either duplicating existing parts or interpreting them in his own way, all the while keeping things within the parameters of what constitutes King Crimson." Yes, I'd completely agree. I can't imagine there are those who are worried that Tony Levin (!) might not cut it. After watching the new DVD last night again I'd say there's very little Tony couldn't do as well or better than the original, the only exceptions being where Trey played more of a guitar type lead solo. And really from watching the DVD with this thought in mind it occured to me that Tony probably usually comes up with parts that are more independant than many of Trey's where he basically doubles the riff. " The thing that has my brain on fire is finding out exactly what the loss of Trey will entail, and I'm not talking about notes or instruments. There is no telling what chain of events will be setbin motion within the band due to the loss of Trey's personality and style. Now if that's not complicated enough we need to think about how Tony's personality will integrate into the new line-up." I've got a lot of confidence in this new line up and believe it to be completely capable of equaling or surpassing all that has gone on before. One should keep in mind also that we won't really hear the new KC until there is new material to play. When KC tours again there will be a full album of new music which Tony helped create. As with each tour the previous albums will be focused on less with the band deciding which songs fit the current line up best. Plus of course there are those ultimate Tony songs with his signature bass playing like One Time, Thela Hun Ginjeet, Elephant Talk, Sleepless etc. to draw upon as well. In conclusion I'd say it will be an exciting thing to hear. From Tony's work with his own band and playing with Gabriel I would assume he will have a lot to offer in regards to new ideas as well. My own personal hope is for KC to continue with the harder edged guitar sound perhaps mixed with a newfound tribal/middle eastern groove thing. It should be a treat to hear Pat and Tony create the ultimate rhythm section... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 15:13:25 -0500 From: "David" Subject: new music from Schizoid Band As one might have always hoped, the Schizoid Band are writing new repertoire (at least one track that is included on the new Schizoid Band Live CD). Which prompts a thought: Do ET readers now of other bands that may have split or reconstituted into two or more units AND carried related names? David Kirkdorffer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 19:34:19 -0700 (MST) From: Chris Heckman Subject: Re: "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" One of the improvs on the _Great Deceiver_ CD set is called Sharks' Lungs in Lemsip (not sure about "Lemsip"). Is this another tasty dish? -- Christopher "HeKcman" [ "Lemsip" is a cold medicine in the UK. One purchases a small paper sachet of Lemsip powder and on the addition of a quantity of boiling water, one is rewarded with a tasty and cold-soothing beverige. I think it might contain aspirin as well. --Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 14:38:03 -0000 From: "Keith Collyer" Subject: no photos obviously, uncle norbert doesn't want his soul to be stolen :-) Cheers KeithC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:16:06 +0100 From: "naji.chmayssani" Subject: Freebird The studio version is also on the "Us or Them" album Naji >Dang. I would love to hear Zappa do Whippin' Post. > >[ I think it's on his "Does Humor Belong In Music" album (and video) --Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 14:55:13 +0100 From: "Eddy de Causmaecker" Subject: The return of Tony "Absolutely NO PHOTOGRAPHY... at King Crimson shows!" That will change now, since it's tony Levin's hobby to take pics of the audiences at the gigs he plays. Eddy Flycatcher Holland Email: flycatcher at zeelandnet dot nl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 14:20:35 -0000 From: "Brian Parker" Subject: Now if we can JUST get Bill back ?ducking?. In response to beginning of e-mail below: To which my response to the Bill Bruford speculation is : unlikely. Mainly because of the success of Earthworks - ace DVD by the way, but secondly, when I bumped into him at Peter Gabriel, Wembley gig (22nd May) - I asked "What's up Bill ? Couldn't get the gig ?" His response was, "Jazz is what I do now". He still signed my Gabriel ticket though. I've met Bill twice now, both times I've been sarcastic, rude and insulting in feeble attempts to be funny (The first was at the Epitaph "playback" when I said of his picture in the CD booklet "Nice dungarees Bill, still got 'em ?" as he signed it for me) So I for one, aren't surprised that other, perhaps wiser, souls avoid certain fans, like me, like the plague. I can't help it, ok?.....and Bill, if you read ET newsletter, I'm sorry, I'll behave better if there's ever a next time. Onto a slightly different topic - has anyone seen the Steve Hackett gigs recently ? I haven't followed him at all since Genesis, apart from knowing he was around, so when I saw him recently, I was shocked to hear the first number - which in structural terms was '21st Century Schizoid Man', and the second which, again structurally was 'I Talk to the Wind' (both these also capturing the emotional sense of the songs as well ??? - I know what I mean..). There were also other echoes of late 60's and 70's stuff in later songs (other than the Genesis songs actually covered of course) as one could almost have been Yes's 'Yours is no Disgrace'. It was even more of a shock to buy the DVD featuring John Wetton which includes a version of 'Court of the Crimson King'. I'm not complaining mind, although I wish I had known to have been in that frame of mind rather than have to play catch-up, it was quite wonderful to listen to music that could well have been played in those days...I am waiting still for 21st Century Schizoid Band to do London on a weekday evening rather than weekend. Beep ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:39:16 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Patrick Gaudin Subject: Fripp Diary Postings I have been patiently sitting at my computer pressing the REFRESH button over and over waiting for Fripp's Dec 3rd diary entry to be updated. Surely there's plenty going on in Wimbourne, Dorset or the color Tony Levin's Music Man will be on his re-entry into Crimson to give Mr. Fripp enough material to keep our thirst for an updated diary entry satisfied. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 07:26:54 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Munari Subject: Re: "Whipping Post & FZ/Schizoid Band Hello there KCriminals! While i've noticed it many times before, the recent posts by ET'er's concerning the greatest composer of the last 50 years, Frank Zappa, makes me have faith that many whom read this newsletter & listen to KC, also have the musicial integrity, & all around basic musical taste, to know a genius when they hear one! As Frank surely was. I know this is probably becoming a 'dead thread' but having just caught up on the last 3 ET's this morning, I felt I had to add my 2 cents(no, a helluva' lot more than that!)to the on going thread of "Whipping Post' being shouted out at FZ's Sept. 22nd 1974 Helsinki, Finland gig(& what a nite that was). The person whom shouted for FZ & band to play a cover of the Allman's "Whipping Post" will here to fore, forever be remembered, as he is heard quite well shouting before the 2nd to last song of this concert, available in the 12 disc boxed set, "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore". Disc's that to me, a Zappa fanatic, & as much of a Zappa 'completist' as is humaly possible, thinks are 12 disc's of musical HISTORY! Frank had the foresight to record almost every single performance & conversation during his tours over the 'all too short' 28 years of playing 'live' gigs, as "The Mother's" or "Frank Zappa". Even tho FZ composed & did play on at least 1 ocassion after learning of his cancer & cancelling the rest of what I believe would have been the greatest FZ touring band ever, in the 1988 version, (featuring 12 virtouso musician's who could play ANYTHING!) & whom I was lucky enough to see & hear before the cacellation of that tour, quite a bit of this GREAT music can be heard on 2 oustanding "live" 2 disc boxed cd's, "The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life" & "Make a Jazz Noise Here". If you indeed enjoy Zappa these disc's are a must. AS he also played 'covers" of several famous tunes("Ring of Fire") on which Johnny Cash was 'supposed' to have joined the band on stage for! It was actually agreed on & set up but Mr.. cash opted out for whatever reason? Possibly fear that FZ would treat him & his song sarcastically, which would not have been the case as FZ had the band rehearse that song a few times during soundchecks, plus that band held 4 months of rehearsal before hitting the road Feb. thru June 1988. Plus song's such as "I Left My heart IN San Francisco"-The Hendrix historic staple Purple Haze"(w/the guitar parts played excelently by Mike Keaneally)CREAM's historic hit, "Sunshine of Your Love"-"When Irish Eye's Are Smiling"-"Godfather Pt. II Theme"-"Theme from Bonanza" & finally the INCREDIBLE FZ version of Led Zep's biggest hit & a song voted #1 R&R song many times over..."Stairway To Heaven"!! This one has to be heard to be appreciated. Now, the FZ band that was still refered to as "The Mother's" in 1973 & the 74 Helsinki performance, was an incredible sextet. Even tho as FZ say's in the liner notes of this Disc lead Singer & Saxaphonist Napolean Murphy Brock, on the nite that was recorded had pneumonia! That band still played so skillfully, & played the material, much of which had already been done on the "The Mother's Roxy/Elsewhere" much at much faster tempo's than before(as mentioned by other ET'er's)it was 1 of FZ most beloved bands! When the guy whom yelled for "Whipping Post", Frank really wanted to be able to have this band replicate the song, but he had NO knowledge of it & had never heard it before, so he nicely asked, "Say That again please?" to which the guy even louder repeated the song title, & Frank said "Whipping Post? Ok, just a second."(Confered w/someone in the band & said),"Sorry we don't know that one...anything else? Hum me a few bars of it, please, just show me how it goes please? Just sing me Whiping Post and maybe we'll play it for you?" When no response came, FZ said, "Thank you very much...and now..."crowd cheers, then Frank say's "Judging by the way you sang it, it must be a John Cage composition...right?" The band then play's(after FZ stopped the band twice) "Montanna" with FZ singing the words "Whipping Post" throughout the song! It's hilarious, & FZ at 1 point singing "get a person, tie them up; to the Whipping Post, & beat the living shit out of them until the guy in the audien! ce is satisfied!" Vintage Frank. Just like Frank, a great spontaneous guy musically & as is recorded many times forever, he dealt with 'heckler's so well! What a band. I was able to see FZ's various groups more times that I can recall, but at least 25, I always thought besides the 74 band that played Helsinki, that the 73 version w/Frank-Brock-George Duke-Ruth Underwood-Tom Fowler, & Chester Thompson drums, AND Ralph Humphrey also on drums may have been better? At least at playing so much great material from the "Overnite Sensation" album. Imo no FZ band topped the 1988 version however. I know this is probably the logest post in ET history, but I really wanted to get the whole FZ "Whipping Post" thing right. As others have posted, after the Helsinki concert, FZ had his bands, thereafter, learn the song correctly, so they might play it when asked, even tho he often put a "reggae" spin or a "ska" touch to it amoungst other musical touches. Indeed if you can find them, this song is filmed at I believe New York's "Pier" by 1984's sextet on the video "Does Humor Belong In Music?". Gail Zappa,(now in charge of all the FZ music to be released)has been promising for YEARS to release all the great vhs performances(I believe 7or 8? I only have 5 sadly)on dvd, but still no progress has been made. There exsists an unbelieveable amount of mostly audio, but also video material recorded by Frank, but it comes out so slowly, now. Even when Frank was in the final stages of his fatal disease, he continued to release ALOT of material, for which I for one will always bew gratefull! R.I.P. Frank, I doubt we'll ever see or hear another human like you! Lastly, while I know this will border on blasphemy, I find myself looking forward to The "21st Cen Schizoid Band's releases, as much if not more than those of KC!? Maybe that'll change with the return of Levin, altho I thought Trey was a great addition. I just can't stop listening to the 2 releases of the "SB"! That's my post for the year, sorry to have offended anyone with the length, Steven ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:55:33 -0500 From: Illoman Subject: Frippism A friend sent me this, I assume from Fripp's diary: I know what Fripp means by a "completion," but what ritual does THIS signify? "The band held A Completion Fisting in the dressing-room afterwards, actually twice because we hadn't anticipated going back for Frame." Any ideas? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:22:47 -0500 From: JARtread at aol dot com Subject: A New Way I have been in and out of the ET digest for many years. Many of the posts I read are much to do about nothing and some bring interesting insight and discussion. With the recent change in KC personnel, it is an opportunity for new ideas and growth for all involved (musician, listner, and ET digest participant). I have learned to enjoy every twist and turn over the life of KC. The only constant is change. So, change should be embraced. Change is freedom. Think of the possibilities and then expect something you never could have imagined. The change from Trey to Tony may or may not usher in a new way. But it is a chance... Just as Trey recently explained that once something has been said or done, it does not serve to continue to repeat it. Let's not try to put everything in a neat box, but let's try to think out of the box. Maybe give the artists the benefit of the doubt and a chance to react to change and allow them the room to create something rare and wonderful on their own terms. If you need a swallow of reality, just look into the mirror and reflect on the path that has brought you to today. Harness the possibilities that change brings and celebrate a new way. Jay - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:35:35 -0500 (EST) From: thedukeofprunes at webtv dot net (Mike) Subject: Reviews Hi Crim Fanatics, I'm thinking of having some Crimson fans writing reviews for my site http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ALLTHINGSCRIM I would do it but I would rather have some other people involved. Sorry I can't pay anyone to do this, this would be free. I would like to have reviews on all their albums plus possibly reviews on some concerts as well. The reviews can be as long as the 'reviewer' wants it to be as long as it's not a novel. We're not writing War And Peace Part 2 here. I would either put all the reviews on my site or start another site on Crimson with just reviews. It would be basically a site by the fans for the fans. If anyone is interested email me and let me know or if anyone has any ideas drop me a line. I have two people in mind to write some reviews but always can use more. Thanks. Cheers, Mike http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ALLTHINGSCRIM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:43:07 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Gaudin Subject: Bredonborough/U.K. bands I am assuming that when Mr. Fripp uses Bredonborough as the location for his diary entry that he is referring to the town, township or borough of Bredon, which is just outside of Gloucester in the county of Gloucestershire. I should be more familiar with the geography of the U.K., but I am from Dallas, Texas originally. It is our God-given right in the United States to be ignorant of other peopleas cultures/geography/politics. By the way, I apologize for misspelling Mr. Frippas hometown of Wimborne in my last posting. I should have known better because I had recently looked at my copy of Enoas aAnother Green Worlda which credits Robert with aWimborne Guitara on the song aGolden Hoursa. Speaking of the U.K. and its geography, I am very amazed at the ability of such a small landmass to be so responsible for the shaping of the worldas history in general, but more importantly, the musical influence it had during the 60s, 70s and early 80s (As we know, Australia dominated the music scene from a85 onward). How can a landmass (the U.K) roughly the size of the state of Michigan (and some of Ohio) be such a powerhouse exporter of great bands and musicians during the above-mentioned era? Was it the constant bad weather that forced youngsters inside to practice all day? Was it the prospect of the post-war Brits having to work in some gloomy Leeds or Bristol factory? Was it the way the young Brits were brought up? (as demonstrated in the Pink Floyd song aAnother Brick In The Walla). By comparison, the same size landmass in the United States (Michigan) during the same era could only produce the likes of the Amboy Dukes/Ted Nugent, MC5, Madonna, Grand Funk Railroad, Brownsville Station, Bob Seger, Parliament-Funkadelic, and Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen. I am not saying these are bad bands, but I am saying that if I had to list all of the great British bands to come out of the U.K. during this same period, there would not be enough bandwidth, nor would the site moderator tolerate it, as he has so kindly tolerated my ramblings thus far. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:34:01 -0600 From: "Strato" Subject: Six degrees of Crimson - Fripper to Teletubbies! Yeah, I know that this is a dead thread, but I thought this was worth posting... I was watching TV, then my brother starts browsing through the channels... So we catch the ending credits for the Teletubbies, and who do I find listed under "Additional Voices" but Toyah Wilcox! Does anyone know whether this is actually our Fripper's wife or just a fun coincidence? Anyhooz... That's that. Glad to hear Tony's back into KC. L8r. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:02:24 +0100 From: "Stephane Alexandre " Subject: Rocking Vicar Dear Elephant Talker, Is there any link between the Rocking Vicar (http://www.rockingvicar.com/) and the famous Vicar from DGM? All the best, Stephane. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:39:52 +0000 (GMT) From: jeff dot atkins at btinternet dot com Subject: Larks Tongue and V.W Dear E.T ers... Not sure if I'm the first to bring this up , but as regarding the on-going origins of LTIA as a title...well, I'm a great admirer of the composer Ralph Vaughan Williams, and one of his most atmospheric English pastoral works is a piece for orchestra in which the violin takes many lengthy solos called The Lark Ascending. If you listen to this work ( which I highly recommend).and then compare the violin solos to those on the first track of LTIA I think you will find a similarity. As a violin player, I am sure David Cross would have known of this work and parhaps played it in the studio around the time of recording. Well thats my Lark theory....its just the Tongue and Aspic bits I now need to work out!!! Cheers to all JA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:20:38 -0500 From: drg55 at netscape dot net Subject: happy with Happy With I had a bit of difficulty with "Happy with what you have to be happy with" on the kc website which is streaming media. The simple solution to this is to save it to disk and then change the file name so that the extentsion .mpga is .mp3. Then winamp will play it in windows. Alternatively Windows media player will tell you it doesn't recognise the format but get it to play it anyway and it works as .mpga. In linux mplayer opens it, and probably as shown below it was originally produced on a mac so mac users most likely don't have a problem. I raised the subject with a linux support group and got some helpful replies: On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 21:14, David R. Griffiths wrote: > I have been trying to listen to an audio segment > "Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With" > http://213.86.53.189/srg_us/sound/kcHappy%20With.mpga > at > http://www.king-crimson.com/thepowertobelieve/index.html > which is .mpga I guess thats mpeg audio I tried realplayer, noatun they didn't work. (also didn't work in windows) I have gstreamer installed. Redhat 9. > > Anybody know what this is and what will open it? > > MPlayer handled it with no problems, here's what it said: > > Audio file detected. > Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3 > MP3lib: init layer2&3 finished, tables done > AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, 16 bit (0x10), ratio: 16000->176400 (128.0 kbit) > Selected audio codec: [mp3] afm:mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3) > Checking audio filter chain for 44100Hz/2ch/16bit -> > 44100Hz/2ch/16bit... > AF_pre: af format: 2 bps, 2 ch, 44100 hz, little endian signed int > AF_pre: 44100Hz 2ch Signed 16-bit (Little-Endian) > AO: [oss] 44100Hz 2ch Signed 16-bit (Little-Endian) (2 bps) > Building audio filter chain for 44100Hz/2ch/16bit -> > 44100Hz/2ch/16bit... > > - -- > Troy - - > luv at luv dot asn dot au is for LINUX-RELATED POSTS ONLY. For details and information > on how to unsubscribe, see http://www.luv.asn.au/mailinglists.html. > > > Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:36:23 +0100 > From: Paul > Subject: Re: mpga format > > On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 09:14:48PM +1100, David R. Griffiths wrote: > > I have been trying to listen to an audio segment > > "Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With" > > http://213.86.53.189/srg_us/sound/kcHappy%20With.mpga > > > Anybody know what this is and what will open it? > > Appears to be an mpeg 1, layer 1 file (the file command says it is a > "MacBinary III data with surprising version number", which is clearly > wrong). > > Anyway, mpg321 played the file for me, under debian. > > Paul. > > .. > > (Redhat and Debian are different versions of linux operating system) > > cheers > > David. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 20:15:09 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Baker Subject: Live in Mexico City Hello, I've been wondering about just what the "Live in Mexico City" release is, because I've found references to it being strictly a download, but (part of it, at least) is included on VROOOM VROOOM. Can anyone tell me more about this? Thanks. -Mark ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1163 *********************************