Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1161 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1161 Wednesday, 3 December 2003 Today's Topics: Re: Fripp Live with Bowie 2003 Trey leaves Crimson Fripp and his christmas tree Fripp with Bowie 2003 Re: Freebird Re: 21st Century 4/4 Man Re: Free Bird, Whipping Post future website offerings Return of Tony Levin Why "Larks Tongues in Aspic"? Replacement for Trey Gunn THIS FRIPP & THE THIN WHITE DUKE An experience of flash photograpy Greg Lake vote for KC Replacing Trey Fripp Touring in Europe Wonderful Blessings to Trey and Robert and Ade and Pat and Tony Tony's Back.. Freebird RF Chicago diary? TLev to rejoin kCrim DGM new business model and how it might affect KC ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Mike Dickson (ET Newsletter distribution/subscriptions) Nadim S. Haque (ET Webmaster) Toby Howard (ET founder and Newsletter Moderator) Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster Emeritus) The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:41:22 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Re: Fripp Live with Bowie 2003 In ET #1160 David Reilly wrote: > Apparently Robert Fripp was introduced to the audience at Friday's gig in > Glasgow by David Bowie and proceeded to add his guitar to "Heroes", Fashion > and various other songs. Was anyone there? Well I wasn't there, but methinks neither was Robert Fripp. According to his diary entry for that day he was probably at home: "19.37 David has just gone home. I am about to load up the car & do the same." Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:13:37 +0000 From: "Danny Anderson" Subject: Trey leaves Crimson I told my wife the other night about Trey Gunn leaving Crimson. She asked why and so I told her about him realizing his goal of playing with the best musicicans and now it's time tomove onward. She looked at me and asked, "Now he going to see what he can do with shitty musicians?" I about laughed til I cried. That's one way of taknig the edge off the announcement. It's going to be interesting how the reemergence of T Lev (or Tone 11) in KC will change the rhythm section and the overall sound. Should be interesting. Yours, Dan Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:41:06 -0000 From: Orn_Orrason Subject: Fripp and his christmas tree Dear ETers and RF I have just read in RF's diary that he has just bought and installed a christmas tree. Now for me this is a bit early and I would like to ask him how he keeps the tree fresh until january when christmas ends. Maybe soundsacpes will do the trick. Bestu kveojur / Kind Regards Orn Orrason VP of Networks Framkvamdastjori fjarskiptasvios orno at ogvodafone dot is Phone +354 599 9000 Fax +354 595 5199 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:22:45 +0000 From: "David Reilly" Subject: Fripp with Bowie 2003 Apparently Robert Fripp was introduced to the audience at Friday's gig in Glasgow by David Bowie and proceeded to add his guitar to "Heroes", Fashion and various other songs. However on quizzing my source further I discovered the guitarist in question played standing up - but Fripp was certainly mentioned. Was anyone there? [ RF certainly wasn't -- see his Diary for 02 Dec -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:11:11 -0600 From: Jeff Evans Subject: Re: Freebird Jon Buckley is correct in his post regarding the Chicago connection/possible origin to the Freebird phenom. Perhaps the timeline goes a little further back. The Chicago DJ mentioned - Kevin Matthews - is an enthusiastic Zappa fan (which includes his band covering Peaches En Regalia at performances). Frank Zappa had the experience of having a clueless audient shout "Whipping Post!" at one of his shows - Helsinki, if memory serves. Later Frank said he really wished they could have just ripped into it and blew the guys mind. So Frank added Whipping Post to the repertoire so he'd be ready for the next time. Freebird is Matthews' twist on that, possibly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:37:01 -0600 From: "Marcus Padgett" Subject: Re: 21st Century 4/4 Man kjholm2 at pop dot uky dot edu wrote: >Seriously, I was able to transcribe the passage on the studio >recording with the help of a variable-speed phrase sampler, and it is >indeed in 4/4, albeit with lots of silences and syncopations. >I have it on a Finale 97 file if anyone is interested. I went through the same exercise, not realizing it was in 4/4 until I got into it. Another pleasant surprise was that it is relatively easy to play on the saxophone. I put it in Finale, then created an MP3 at 2/3 tempo with an added click track for my bandmates to practice with. Anyone in the Chicago area can hear my band "RPM" (windycityband.com) perform "21CSM" and "People" at Edison Park Inn on 12/13. Both tunes will also be in our set at Goose Island in February. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:38:35 -0600 From: John Michael Beard Subject: Re: Free Bird, Whipping Post I thought the genesis of the "Free Bird" shout was from the live Skynard album. This was played relentlessly on AOR radio at one time. The singer asks "What song is it you wanna hear?" over audience members already shouting "Free Bird". Since that time, I don't think I've played a gig without someone shouting it, usually as a joke but sometimes seriously. I really don't think the FZ tale about "Whipping Post" has anything to do with this, it's not nearly mainstream enough. You can actually hear the guy shouting it on Helsinki Concert, one of my favorite records. The way FZ tells the story in one interview, he felt bad that he couldn't just whip out "Whipping Post" and blow the guy away, so a later band learned about thirty variations of the song. The interviewer commented, "Maybe the guy mistook you for Duane Allman." To which Zappa replied, "Sure, it happens all the time." To appreciate the humor in this, I suggest you find a picture of Duane. Fringe-y jacket type for maximum effect. John Michael Beard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:22:17 -0500 From: "bruje" Subject: future website offerings In the upcoming remake of the DGM website, I was thinking, wouldn't it be great if they did something like what phish does -- put up live recordings for fans to d/l (www.livephish.com). Phish has been doing it a little over a year now, and judging from the fact that they're putting up more and more shows to d/l, I would say the experiment seems to be working. I know I'd certainly like the ability to pay for and d/l a KC show I attended (Toad's Place), and I'm sure I'm not alone. I hope they consider this for a viable distribution method. Cheers, Mysterio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:15:12 EST From: Stamperdanny at wmconnect dot com Subject: Return of Tony Levin What better way to celebrate the return of Tony Levin, than to re-issue "The Noise" and "Three of a Perfect Pair" on DVD once and for all? Danny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:23:20 -0800 From: Martin Gavin Subject: Why "Larks Tongues in Aspic"? I imagine Fripp's continued use of the name Lark's Tongues in Aspic is because a) A lark is a soaring, singing bird. b) Aspic is a not-particularly-appetising, preservative jelly. Fripp's opinion on the superiority of live versus studio music is well known. To me, the name expresses this in a vivid (though macabre) way. Much in keeping with the music, eh? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:07:45 +0100 From: Aresius Subject: Replacement for Trey Gunn Please sorry for my poor english :) I think there's only one man in the world with the right hands, the right brain and the right stick agility to replace Trey Gunn in King Crimson: his name is Sean Malone, once bass player of Cynic and now of Gordian Knot. He already worked with Bruford, Hackett and also Trey Gunn himself. He's really smart, expecially on fretless bass. Discover him! Hi all, Marco ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:40:09 -0500 From: "MALCOLM XERXES" Subject: THIS FRIPP & THE THIN WHITE DUKE PARLIAMENT OF PACHYDERMS, I would not be upset if a live album/DVD release of this gig was made available to us. THIS FRIPP'S work on "HEROES" is universally acknowledged for what it is, but his work on "FASHION" peels the scalp from my skull, beginning @ the nape of the neck & working forwards to the bridge of my nose. Be seeing you! MALCOLM XERXES Batterie/Slagwerk ANOTHER 1000 MILES http://www.geocities.com/malcolmxerxes/MALCOLM_XERXES_MUSIC.html > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:32:51 +0000 > From: "David Reilly" > Subject: Fripp Live with Bowie 2003 > > Apparently Robert Fripp was introduced to the audience at Friday's > gig in Glasgow by David Bowie and proceeded to add his guitar to > "Heroes", Fashion and various other songs. Was anyone there? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:27:23 +0000 From: Matt Nolan Subject: An experience of flash photograpy This may just offer an insight into a contentious issue. Last week, I was at work, in the office, trying to design and debug large sub-sections of cutting edge silicon chips. Meanwhile, our new CEO was being photographed for press release purposes. Now the flashes were going off at random, every few seconds for most of the morning. This was at the far end of the room, behind a partition / divider, so the flash wasn't directly hitting anyone apart from the CEO. In the main body of the open plan office, the rest of us were just getting scattered light from the ceiling in an already brightly lit room 3 of us (including me) had to leave the office because our brains were turning into pot noodle. It was impossible to maintain concentration with this going on in the background. The level of cerebral interruption lies somewhere between a tap on the shoulder and a jab in the ribs. I wonder how much worse it is on a stage in a darkened room with the flash aimed straight at you? Regards, Matt Nolan. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:14:14 -0800 (PST) From: lee wallace Subject: Greg Lake I just read on Pete Townshend's website that Greg Lake has contributed some bass parts to a Who project being recorded by Daltrey and Townshend. Apparently the sessions went very well and there are some nice words about Lake as a bass wrangler and a man. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:26:58 +0100 From: "Andre Steijns" Subject: vote for KC On the website of PAPERLATE, Holland's longest existing radioshow dedicated to classic and progressive rock you can vote once a day until December 28 for the best albums of 2003. On december 28 Paperlate will broadcast their annual top 10. The Power to believe is one of the nominated albums you can vote for on www.paperlate.nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:29:51 -0000 From: "Peter Bryant" Subject: Replacing Trey For synchronicity's sake, if Jakko is in 21st CSB, does this mean Mark King should replace Trey? Running for cover now! Peter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:05:04 -0000 From: "jim mcmanus" Subject: Fripp Touring in Europe Now that Mr Fripp has decided that Europe now follows the UK in not being worthy of the King Crimson live experience, Will he now instruct all record retailers in Europe to return all cds, dvds to DGM as obviously we are not worthy of such items. Well Mr Fripp thanks for all the years of pleasure since I was 14, I am now 42, I will remember with pleasure seeing Frippertronics at the first Womad festival, and also the original League of Gentlemen above the Playhouse in Edinburgh, Alas all things come to an end and this is it. I hope you find the perfect environment you are looking for playing music, but it wont include me as I am European, Oh well. Happy to be Happy with what I wont have to be Happy with. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:21:31 -0600 From: Paul MacFarlane Subject: Wonderful Blessings to Trey and Robert and Ade and Pat and Tony The manner and prose of Trey's departure was elegiac and so beautiful. Robert's diary post in response was sagacious and sweet as a flower. This moment of change in a band of change itself makes me glad to be a human being. And glad to be a human being alive at these moments of wisdom, truth, goodwill and beauty. Paul MacFarlane Co-Owner/Managing Director t h e 1 2 . 0 3 e x p e r i m e n t 415 North Tenth Street 3rd floor St. Louis, Missouri USA 63101 voice: 314 621.0220 fax: 314 421.5954 my personal wireless number: 314 398.1453 www.the1101experiment.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:21:58 -0800 From: "Erwin Bush" Subject: Tony's Back.. I'm sure many folks have already noticed this, but in his December 1st post to his Road Diary Tony Leven states: "And on the King Crimson front, it's looking like I will be re-joining the band in the coming year. Actually, a better way of putting it would be that I'm being recalled to 'active duty', having been in 'reserves' as 'the fifth man' for the last few years. Anyway, As you can imagine, I'm excited about the challenge of making music with Crimson again. Probably some scheduling will be coming up in the next month or two, and I'll happily put updates on touring plans as they become definite. The lineup, as far as I now know, will be Adrian Belew, Robert Fripp, Pat Mastelotto and me." [http://www.tonylevin.com/index.shtml] I for one am looking forward to it -- I only hope he keeps playing with his own band as well. Erwin lists at erwinbush dot com Almost at http://www.erwinbush.com "Not facts first, truth first." - G. K. Chesterton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:38:59 -0600 From: Jon Buckley Subject: Freebird Dang. I would love to hear Zappa do Whippin' Post. [ I think it's on his "Does Humor Belong In Music" album (and video) --Toby ] Old Ears ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:07:50 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Wolkotte Subject: RF Chicago diary? Was on DGM site and noticed there wasn't an entry from RF's diaries on the Chicago shows (11/8-9). Anyone have a copy or know where I can view it? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:03:40 -0800 (PST) From: "tony burton" Subject: TLev to rejoin kCrim >From www.tonylevin.com... "I will be continuing work on my new photo book of 19 years on the road with King Crimson - it's not the first time I've promised release of this book, but I'm determined to have it ready by next summer. And on the King Crimson front, it's looking like I will be re-joining the band in the coming year. Actually, a better way of putting it would be that I'm being recalled to "active duty", having been in "reserves" as "the fifth man" for the last few years. Anyway, As you can imagine, I'm excited about the challenge of making music with Crimson again. Probably some scheduling will be coming up in the next month or two, and I'll happily put updates on touring plans as they become definite. The lineup, as far as I now know, will be Adrian Belew, Robert Fripp, Pat Mastelotto and me." Hurrah! TonyB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:41:51 +0100 From: "Thomas POISSON" Subject: DGM new business model and how it might affect KC I am very thrilled to hear that change is underway within both DGM and KC, as change (or at least mobility, as the M from DGM suggests) seems to be the true essence of these two entities. Not that I wasn't happy with what i had to be happy with when Trey was on board, but I always welcome change within KC as good news. Last time things changed within KC, we got the ProjeKcts, which failed to be recognized as "pure" Crimson music (if such a thing exists), but in which resides the forward-thinking spirit that animates the best KC endeavors. Then was formed one of the tightest live KC lineup ever. Last time things changed within DGM, us "fans" were given a treat in the form of the Collectors Club : a barely financially viable undertaking as far as I've understood, but an undeniable success in distributing music that changes people's lives. Now that we have a new KC lineup and a new DGM business model (a subscription-based web site offering access to KC downloads, as far as i've understood) ahead of us, I was wondering how the two might combine to have Mr Fripp business and artistic vision come closest to reality it has ever been. A few observations : - DGM will under my assuptions provide some of the KC enthusiasts with internet access a cost-effective way of accessing music it has license to distribute (ie : music that hasn't been licensed to some other record company like EMI or Sanctuary), mainly KC live archives and works in progress such as those already made available through the Collector's Club. - Quite a few historic performances from the past have already been made available through the Collector's Club and Official Archival Releases to those KC enthusiasts, but with the few notable exceptions of a proper ProjeKct 3 show or an early/mid 1973 show, mostly all KC periods have been already been fairly extensively documented. - It is my guess then that the new subscription service will have to concentrate its contents on the future KC lineup(s) to keep its customers paying for "exclusive" downloads unavailable through other means, even though there are still wells untapped into the KC live history. Yet, how might this one lineup generate sufficient interest to sustain the burgeoning new business model ? A few personal deductions : My take on this is that KC might have to play things a bit differently than it has been for the last couple of years. For example, looking at the various set-lists from the last tour (see the excellent "KC Live" Internet resource), I really felt that shows did not change much from night to night, with only one or two song changes happening usually during the encores. The feeling of "sameness" in the external aspects of the performance are also reinforced with the lack of proper improvs during the 2001 - 2003 tours. Both of these aspects would not incite me as a customer to pay for the download of more than one or two shows for these tours (i'd select the ones deemed as the best from the early buyers, and be happy with it). I understand that two shows that look the same as far as the set list goes might be vastly different in the way they might be felt from the inside, but when it comes to buying music you have to make choices. The one that works for me (and aybe other people that buy records) is, arbitrarily : I don't buy different shows from the same tour if they are not likely to be signifiantly different one from the other. On the other hand, i would gladly buy many more shows if the set-list became more irregular and more "ProjeKcty" (improv-based) because as a customer of recorded music, this is also where the excitement comes. I also concur to a recent Vicar statement referring to the possibility of KC playing mostly one nighters with very special set-lists, that will undoubtly keep fans hungry for more. Thrilling, to say the least. To make a long post shorter, I'd say that this is only a view from the basement of Mr Fripp's lofty goals and how, in my opinion, paying customers are most likely to help them happen. I understand, of course, that music and the creative impulse must stay away from business models. Yet when artistic ambitions and financial viability are so close to getting along with each other, I felt that somehow the customer part of the equation might give a little insight into the way it will most likely jump on the pay-downloads bandwagon. Sorry for the bandwidth, Tom ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1161 *********************************