Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #116 D I S C I P L I N E The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 116, Saturday, 20 November 1993 Today's Topics: Micahel Bloom's GD review Re: Discipline #115 Emanuelle Crimson Cover Discipline #115 Symphonic KC why you might want USA even if you have GD and FBF Current distribution The Young Person's Guide to King Crimson Crimson in Syracuse, 1982 a note Viva YPG Fripp Called Me Clueless sparkling jewels careful with that axe Eno boxes Discipline [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 08:30:39 -0800 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Micahel Bloom's GD review I called Michael Bloom and got permission from him for us to reprint his Boston Rock review of thr Great Deciever box - but I don't have a copy of it to type in, so hopefully someone else can? [[ See later in this issue. ]] In case anyone is wondering what happened to Bloom, here's an update: He lost his net access some time ago when he lost his job doing computer stuff. Since then he's been just working on his writing and his 3 different band projects: Urban Ambience, Jules & Natasha, and some duo thing with a bassist and Bloom on marimba. He put on the last Richard Sinclair show in the Boston area and lost money doing so. He has a track to contribute to a compilation of Ernest Brookings material which his is hoping to record as a collaboration with Sinclair. In case any of you were wondering who the heck Michael Bloom is why anyone would care, or why Fripp would respond in the liner notes to his box set to a review by Bloom: he has a history as a music critic/reviewer dating back long before his work with the Boston Rock magazine. In the mid 70's he was working for Rolling Stone. His review of Fripp's Exposure for RS was partially reprinted in Eric Tamm's book on Fripp, but Tamm only took excerpts, and from what I could tell he only took the parts that could be taken as bad or critical and responded to them; the rest of the review I think was more favorable than Tamm's excerpts might suggest. I think Mr. Fripp did something similar in responding to points in Bloom's review of the Frame by Frame box - I don't think the entire review was reprinted, just the points Fripp wanted to slam Bloom on for being "clueless..." about. Anyway, Bloom has a long history of interest in Fripp and as a journalist is isn't new to all this. I've heard a tape of a pretty intersting interview Bloom did with Lou Reed back around the time Metal Machine Music came out, talking in detail about the construction of that work and also about the "artifical head" mic-ing system that Lou Reed was one of the first artists to exploit. Can someone upload his review of The Great Deceiver box? Also I think he did a recent review of the Fripp/Sylvian release that might be interesting to share. I forgot to ask Bloom if he'd be willing to mail me the articles on disk... - Malcolm [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 13:20:00 -0400 (EDT) From: LENNBOB at delphi dot com Subject: Re: Discipline #115 >> Chad I do not think you are crazy. While I do not have a copy of _The_First_Day_ (yet), I immediately noticed the same gold sparkles you describe when I first opened my copy of Sylvian & Czukay's "Plight & Premonition." >> This is either a Sylvian design motif, or an uncanny coincidence. I've seen these sparkle things before. I believe it's just sloppy manufacturing. Kevin [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:34:21 -0500 From: pearceja%pomis dot dnet at wl dot wpafb dot af dot mil Subject: Emanuelle Crimson Cover Subject: Emanuelle Crimson Cover Peter VanMaasdam wrote > in the film "Emanuelle", there is a jazz band cover of Larks' Tongues II. > I have not been able to find a copy of the movie to confirm this ... Well, I can confirm this for you. When I used to subscribe to pay TV (HBO, I think?), they used to show soft-porn movies like "Emanuelle" late at night. Well, I'm embarrassed to say that I had "Emanuelle" on one night probably because I was flipping channels (yeah, that's it). Anyway, I recall quite vividly a scene where a man was chasing a woman around (for probably obvious reasons), but the remarkable thing about the scene was the music. When I realized that it was a Crimson cover I almost fell out of my chair. To tell you the truth, that was probably 3 years ago so I don't recall the quality of the rendition, but it is true that it appears in that film. If you really want to hear it, check your local video store, they probably carry those types of high quality films! Jeff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 11:52:21 -0800 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: Discipline #115 toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk writes: >Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 15:14 CST >From: SANDERSO at gacvx2 dot gac dot edu >Subject: I Talk to the Wind (country style), Sylvian/Fripp glitter, other babble > >I am eagerly awaiting the future of King Crimson. In the meantime, anyone >know where I can get a Schizoid Man t-shirt like Fripp's dear departed >mother used to wear? Don't know where you can get one now, but I got one on the 3oaPP tour. It's my pride and joy. >From: "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." > >of the theater. A few films were shown on a screen that was set up on the >front edge of the stage. One film was an animation, I don't remember >seeing the title but have named it "There and Back." The film showed a >flower in which one appeared to zoom inside. The animation showed some >interesting structures (it reminds me today of the many fractal zoom images >that one can observe on a home computer), at some point the travel >direction reversed and moved back to the original image. I knew this was I've seen a film that fits this desciption. It's pretty well known. I think it's called "Orders of Magnitude" or something. >From: David A. Craig > >how many of you have heard trey gunn's new cd? is there any way to buy it >other than at shows? (i have one ... i want another for a gift). > >i think it has wonderful moments. if someone had handed it to me without a >cover and said it was demos for the new crimson ... i wouldn't have >contested that claim. i suggest running out and buying it, but that's me. I agree that it's quite good. Much better than I expected: I find his treble-range playing to be a lot of noodling, if you know what I mean. But this CD is very good in spite of that. A related question is: what's the catalogue number of the semi-recent California Guitar Trio japanese release? I think it's titled Yamanashi Blues. I don't think I can special-order it w/o label and number info. >it credits only vocals and some percussion to peoplke other than trey. in >other words, all string parts are trey playing stick? can that really be? >someone reassure me ... wow. Yeah, it notes that all non-percussion sounds were played on the Stick. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L. Kalka) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 14:58:46 EST Subject: Symphonic KC Somehow, I think if KC was intended to be orchestrated, it would have been. See the albums "Lizard" and "Islands." -The Driver of an Underground Train -Terry P.S. Has anyone been able to get the words to "Doctor Diamond?" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 12:44 GMT From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: why you might want USA even if you have GD and FBF Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1993 15:14:18 -0400 (EDT) From: LENNBOB at delphi dot com Subject: USA etc The entire contents of the USA album are contained in the Great Deceiver box set, with the exception of "Asbury Park", which is on the fourth CD in the Frame By Frame box. From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu (Terrance L. Kalka) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 15:43:06 EST Subject: Vinyl, Sleepless, and "real music" Between Frame by Frame and The Great Deceiver, USA has been released, so the only thing missing is the album cover. Actually, not quite true. The Jobsonized versions of Lark's, 21st Century, and Lament that appear on USA are *very* different from the Cross versions, due to the difference in violin playing styles. I still want USA on CD for this reason! Ronald L. Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) School of Cognitive & Computing Sciences University of Sussex, Falmer, Brighton, BN1 9QH, UK Tel: +44 273 678581; Fax: +44 273 671 320 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Current distribution Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 07:26:54 -0500 From: ""William N. Furman"" After reading Robert Fripp's notes in the Graet deceiver scapbook relative to EG I've become curious/worried about US distribution of the King Crimson library. The 1980's material ( has it really been 10 years) is in most shops, but anything earlier is strictly hit or miss. I'm finally ready to start replacing LPs so --> The question is: Are the earlier King Crimson albums (CDs) currently being manufactured and distributed in the US?? On another note does anyone on the list remember a small group of intimate performances given by Mr. Fripp in a small church in the village in NYC about 1980/81?? It was a wonderful question/answer session and frippertronics demonstartion. It was a beautiful sunny afternoon and Fripp played as the sun filtered into the church. I've misplaced my ticket stub (If I ever had one) and would like to know when it was. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William N. Furman-Principal Engineer * internet: wnf at rfc dot comm dot harris dot com Harris Corporation,RF Comm. Group * Phone: (716) 242 3553 1680 University Avenue * Fax: (716) 325 1572 Rochester, New York, 14610 U.S.A. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 13:20 CST From: SANDERSO at gacvx2 dot gac dot edu Subject: The Young Person's Guide to King Crimson There was a lot of talk in the most recent issue of Discipline about the Young Person's Guide. I don't know whether or not it is still available, but I special-ordered the LPs from Musicland in early-1992 and got a beautiful, pristine, new copy with booklet and all for $12.99. As I say, this venue may not still be an option, but you should check it out. Scott T. Anderson sanderso at gacvx2 dot gac dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 7:52:54 EST From: Phil Z Subject: Crimson in Syracuse, 1982 From: "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." > HAPANOWICZ at xray dot alfred dot edu write: >I first came in to contact with King Crimson in 1982. I was 15 and was >waiting to buy some things at a shop when two friends came up and told me >of a concert in Syracuse, NY. I had been in contact with Crimson for quite some time in '82, and was at that show in Syracuse (my home town). I was going to Oswego State at the time, and a car-load of people came to see that show. The Landmark is a beautiful and ornate old theatre, well preserved, and the sound is really excellent, so we were looking forward to it. At the time, I must admint that I was a purist for the older material, especially the Lizard and before period, and Red and the then-newest renditions hadn't really captured me at the time. That Syracuse show turned my head around! To see Fripp and Belew sitting/standing firmly throwing counter-rhythms at each other in a setting that needed no flashy lights or smoke machines just knocked me over! I took away an image and respect for that band and its players that's carried me over to this day. I can't say that I've enjoyed everything that's come out from this crew (Belew could skip his 60's stuff and Fripp's crafty renditions, save the Toyah record, leave me cold), but I continue to be fascinated with the work of all involved. Unlike most wretched revivals (read Yes), KC in '94 sounds like a sure thing! Phil Z [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: linetsky at nde dot unl dot edu (Gene Linetsky) Subject: a note Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 9:38:40 CST Dear Toby, In DISCIPLINE #115 Kevin writes (USA etc): > The entire contents of the USA album are contained in the Great Deceiver box > set... I wish it was so... Unfortunately, USA's version of "Easy Money" (along with two or three other things, BTW) didn't make it into the Great Deceiver box. I think it's the best "Easy Money" ever, the best Fripp solo, and maybe the best piece of rock art altogether. Gene P.S. The Discipline is great! Thank you, Toby! Can you tell me if I'm the only Russian on the Discipline list? If not, can you get me in touch with others, please? Thanks! [[ Would any Russian readers care to contact Gene? -- Toby ]] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: RAMIZ at vms dot huji dot ac dot il@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 17:36 +0200 Subject: Viva! Hello all, This Saturday i listened to Roxy Music's live _Viva!_ album after quite a while of ignoring its presence on my shelves. After wiping off the dust (this is more than picturesque(sp?), i live in the middle of the desert...), i found out that the performance there is as best as can be. Swinging from powerful to bogus, with the inevitable Roxy touch of glam, and superb musicianship, _Viva!_ is a worthy album (maybe even the best Roxy release). [apologies for the obscure description, i'd have reviewed it better, had i listened to it in order to do so] But why am i telling you all that? I suppose it's not much of a news to most of you, but i can't recall it being discussed here either: the line-up for the _Viva!_ shows includes (at parts) Eddi Jobson and John Wetton; [It was recorded in shows from 73-74-75, so i guess that in the '73 shows Wetton wasn't around. The '74 shows date to November, so i guess both of them were available at this post-KC time] Maybe their co-operation here has led to the forming of UK, later in the lost decade. Other members are (801, Roxy, etc. guitarist) Phil Manzanera, drummer Paul Thompson (dunno him), brass player Andy (BBC armchair thrillers, etc.) Mackay, and Brian Ferry of course. Figure out what such a line-up can sound like... With the whole of early Roxy catalogue released on CD, and cut-out to ridiculous prices (at least here), i highly recommend you to try _Viva!_ out. Peace, RamZ. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 13:52:28 EST From: White_Lily Subject: YPG Many people are asking about the Young Person's Guide. I got it a while back as a Japanese import on CD and I still see it around. Expect to pay about $60. And yes, it comes with the booklet. One question before I go: Does anyone know a place to get that boot of the Quintet (the one that is supposedly the same as the sold video tape)? I am usually not into bootlegs but since I have read that it is now many people's favorite Fripp CD, I am VERY interested in finding it. BTW, I seen Robert Fripp and the Quintet play about 2 or so years ago, though they did not call themselves the Quintet then. After the show, I asked Mr. Fripp if he planned on releasing a tape of the music that was in the show and he said that he planned to. He also said that SAOTW was going to release another album. I would bitch and say "Fripp, where is it?!?!" but I am already amazed at the amount of work that he does, constantly have many projects underway. Thanks. Sincerely, Lily [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 12:17:15 EST From: David=Lane%HQ%Rational at Vines1 dot ratsys dot com Subject: Fripp Called Me Clueless Malcolm Humes wrote; > I called Michael Bloom and got permission from him for us to reprint his > Boston Rock review of thr Great Deciever box - but I don't have a copy of it > to type in, so hopefully someone else can? OK, since I was the one who brought up the subject, here it is. (_Boston Rock_ is a freebie music paper that gets circulated in some of the more nonstandard record stores around the Boston area. I picked up a copy at the Newbury Comics in Framingham, MA. Mr. Bloom writes (or at least he used to) for the _Boston Phoenix_, a weekly paper that started out as an "underground" paper back in the 60's.) Apologies for any typos, especially in light of the statement at the end of the review. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - from Boston Rock #135 BOSTON ROCK TAKES A LISTEN TO THE ARCHIVES K i n g C r i m s o n Fripp Called Me Clueless by Michael Bloom *The Great Deceiver* is the second 4 disc box set of King Crimson in as many years, following the *Frame by Frame* compilation from the Crimson discography--but it's not just an outbreak of hubris on the part of Robert Fripp. This one consists of live performances out of Fripp's archives by the lineup that made *Starless and Bible Black*: David Cross on violin and electric keyboards, John Wetton on bass and vocals, and Bill Bruford on drums. This band, for its all-too-brief lifespan, was simply the most ferociously inspired ensemble I ever saw (and one of the most frequently bootlegged). Specifically, there's music from six different shows: two European dates from the autumn of 1973, the rest from this continent in 1974. The band's last week is particularly well represented, with three gigs. One concert in Providence (the night before a Central Park date that turned out to be this band's last performance) is reproduced in its entirety. I saw this show, and it's just as compelling as I remember. Out of the nearly five hours of music contained herein, about two hours is improvised. Some of the jams were just elaborations of the relatively amorphous intros to songs like "Exiles," and some were exercises on ostinato structures, like "Talking Drum," or twisted jam band fare like one number called "Tight Scrummy," which sounds like the evil twin of the Allman Brothers. But it was also a mark of pride for this ensemble to launch itself into the complete unknown and create spontaneous compositions, many of which were successful enough to release on Crimson's "studio" albums--which were partly recorded live anyway, to capture the vibe and to save money. The piece called "We'll Let You Know" that appeared on *Starless* grew extempore out of some guitar harmonics Fripp began to play at the end of "Easy Money" in Glasgow (they edited the ending on the album to make it more dramatic). The track called "Providence" on *Red* was likewise an improv from that penultimate concert. Here the pieces appear in context and in full. Fripp opines that this band never attained the improvisatory heights of the original Crimson until the Central Park gig that turned out to be their swan song. I think he's being too harsh--or too starry-eyed about the earlier band, which just wasn't that impressive on the *Frame by Frame* live excerpts. (Maybe he's got better stuff in his archives, slated for a future box set.) The Bruford-Wetton rhythm section rocked with an authority well beyond the prissy Victoriana of Michael Giles and Greg Lake, and could change directions in a trice. Both on violin and in his harmolodic piano licks, Cross had an angularity that neatly complemented Fripp's mutant scales, which were significantly further evolved than his blues-derived modes circa "Schizoid Man." And Fripp was simply in great form, rocketing over the fretboard in metalloid eruptions. In sum, this ensemble was uniquely capable--in analytic skills, in chops, and in the ineffable empathy of collective music making--of realizing the original King Crimson goal of organizing anarchy. Next to this, the earlier Crimson seems flowery and ponderous, and the clockwork filigree of the *Discipline* band just so much chopsticks. The packaging was once again done by Bill Smith, who won a N.A.I.R.D. design award for the *Frame By Frame* box, and it's just as spiffy, with just as many graphic puns and allusions. The main recurring image is a stage magician who bears an uncanny resemblance to Jamie Muir, the brilliant percussionist who played on *Larks' Tongues in Aspic" but quit the band before Americans could see him. Nor, regrettably, does he appear on any of these cuts. And once again, there's an extensive "scrapbook" full of commentary by Fripp, relevant documentation (in this case, Fripp's original tour diaries), and all the reviews of *Frame By Frame*--including two of mine, on the basis of which Fripp concluded (on page five) that I was "clueless and slightly slack." I'm growing to enjoy Fripp's gradual revelation of the King Crimson experience within these notes, but I take his complaints with a grain of salt. Cross also provides a moving memoir from his perspective at stage right. And by the way, Robert, I'd be happy to send you this article on diskette, so you needn't transcribe it by hand for the next Scrapbook and introduce more typos. Dave Lane davidl at ratsys dot com R a t i o n a l Systems, Inc. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 15:15:40 +1000 From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) Subject: sparkling jewels my _the first day_ came in a see-through jewel case with another fripp/sylvian photo and a track listing visible. (australian - havent checked if a local print) the smile on mr fripp's face throughout the packaing is sparkle enough for me jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 16:45:10 -0800 From: David A. Craig Subject: careful with that axe i have heard tell of a (japanese?) video about fripp called "careful with that exe" or the like (pink floyd????? what DOES fripp think of them, anyhow?). can anyone out there detail its contents? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 15:11:42 PST From: "John Relph" Subject: Eno boxes I just had the great pleasure of picking up not onE Eno box set, but TWO! The first is instrumental only, and the second set is comprised of vocal recordings. I am not going to try to list all the tracks, but it's fair to say that Eno's work is well represented here, and the boxes include a fair number of unreleased and hard-to-find tracks. Some of those include "The Lion Sleeps Tonight", "More Volts" and a few tracks >from the unreleased _My Squelchy Life_. I am very happy with the set. The essays are very interesting, although one of them is a little pretentious, the packaging is nice (including pictures from Eno's deck of nudie playing cards), and the mastering is very good. These boxes are highly recommended if you are an Eno fan. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: s dot gold4 at genie dot geis dot com Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 01:49:00 BST Subject: Discipline The band Either/Orchestra, from here in Boston, does Red on the album "The Half Life of Desire" on Accurate Records. Its a great version of the song. They did not record any other KC songs as far as I know. Unfortunately their guitarist, who was the Crimson fan, has since left the band, and they no longer perform Red. They still are excellent live. I picked up the Absolute Zero CD that Keith mentioned in #114. I love it! I live only 2 towns away from Leominster, MA, and I hope to get to see them play somewhere. I have since loaned the disc to Michael Bloom, who will review it in Boston Rock. Another disc for Crimson fans to look for is "Skin & Butter: An O-zone Assortment", featuring my group: Kel Loch & Gold, Mr. Bloom's band: Velocity Prime, and a few more. Not all of the disc is progressive, but most is. Interested people can E-mail me for more info at sgold4 at genie dot geis dot com Scottt [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.