Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1155 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1155 Thursday, 13 November 2003 Today's Topics: ET Spam-Virus Fripp's opinion of RIAA, MPAA and copying? The Vicar Heavy ConstruKction CD - Concert Footage Password League of Gentlemen Fractal: ET inspired band launches first CD Virus - Let's Not be Paranoid. Fripp Sighting In Denver Re. 21st Century Schizoid Band in London? Re: ET Spam-Virus Trey Gunn in-store appearance Flash Photos 21st Century Schizoid Band Fripp's Soundscapes KCCC24 and MusicMatch Re: ET Spam-Virus GIG REVIEW: Park West Chicago 11-08-03 GIG REVIEW: Denver GIG REVIEW: Chicago 2 nights ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Mike Dickson (ET Newsletter distribution/subscriptions) Nadim S. Haque (ET Webmaster) Toby Howard (ET founder and Newsletter Moderator) Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster Emeritus) The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:56:10 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: ET Spam-Virus > From: "Mike Dennis" wrote.. > > So watch out, a contributor to this forum is trying to mess it up for > the rest of us. I really doubt it. A lot of of these mutant Outlook Express viruses are smart enough to pick message titles out of your existing e-mails and forward them as the title for its next propogation, thereby making the unsuspecting recipient think that it's something valid. Mike Dickson, Elephant Talk Administration and Distribution [ Folks, please heed the wise words of Uncle Mike. He knows what he's talking about. And please keep your anti-virus deinitions up to date. And if a nice Nigerian person ever asks you to look after their millions for them -- JUST SAY NO! -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:20:53 +0100 From: Harald Milz Subject: Fripp's opinion of RIAA, MPAA and copying? Hi, just curious, has RF ever stated an opinion about the current (and ongoing) RIAA / MPAA vs. the average user fuzz? Since he is very critival about the music industry in his DGM Q&A I would assume he has a clear opinion here too. Don't get me wrong - I bought and own all KC CDs myself, and some more. :-)) -- ,_, (O,O) ( ) -"-"------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:33:00 -0500 From: Michael dot Russell at mercerdelta dot com Subject: The Vicar Friends-- It seems that the Vicar is everyone from Ian Anderson to RF to Brian Eno to Ant Phillips, if various posts are to be believed. It strikes me that the Vicar is a composite character incorporating elements of several people, RF and Eno amongst them. To wit: The line describing the Vicar as famously leaving his first band because he said it made no sense to have two non musicians in it would seem to refer to Eno's departure from Roxy, and does not appear to refer to RF. The line describing the Vicar removing the original painting of his first album from the offices of Malvolio and Breamore after seeing it carelessly displayed in full sunlight would appear to refer to Fripp's experience with Barry Godber's ITCOTCK cover painting, and doesn't seem to fit anyone else. The remainder of the chronicles are liberally peppered with bits from various real people's lives, but if you string all the bits together, you realize this simply must be a composite life. And a witty one, too. Keep at it, Punk . . . Let's hope for peace, --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:40:34 +0000 From: Graham Kidd Subject: Heavy ConstruKction CD - Concert Footage Password Dear ET'ers: I have just bought the Heavy ConstruKction 3-CD set (filling in the lat few gaps in the KC collection), and would like to witness the concert footage on CD#2. However... the link to http://www.kingcrimsontv.com doesn't work - I guess the site has been taken down. So - without a password, I can not watch the video. Could any kind soul who has a working password please let me in onq the secret? As it was apparently free, I don't think this should cause anyone any palpitations of indignation! Thanks in advance. Graham Kidd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:45:09 -0500 From: "Steven Paul Rewa B.S." Subject: League of Gentlemen I just bought Jess Nevins' book "Heroes and Monsters: An Unofficial companion to The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen." In the book he attempts to analyze, frame by frame, the comic by Allan Moore listing the source material for any references, however obscure. He also suggest his theories behind any references that can't be easily placed, and suggests Fripp's League of Gentlemen as a possible inspiration for the name, though Moore denies it. Anyway, I hope you find it interesting even if you don't like the comic. Anon, -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:56:01 -0800 From: Adrian Cockcroft Subject: Fractal: ET inspired band launches first CD A posting to ET in late 2000 brought together three musicians who have been playing music inspired by King Crimson ever since. Fractal have now completed their first CD release: see http://www.cdbaby.com/fractal and are launching it with a gig at the Britannia Arms in Cupertino, CA on Saturday 15th Nov. The CD is original material, but live they will play a few KC/Fripp tracks (usually Red, Breathless and Frakctured). For more info please visit http://www.fractal-continuum.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:25:43 -0000 From: "Stephen King" Subject: Virus - Let's Not be Paranoid. Around three weeks ago I started getting a number of e-mails with dodgy attachments from contributors within the 21st Century Schizoid Band newsgroup. The attachments ended with a double extension typically *.doc.scr and occasionally *.doc.pif I deleted these e-mails without opening them and circulated a warning to other members of 21 CSB. There was no let-up in the attacks on my pc and the virus was obviously spreading because I then started getting infected e-mails from people that I have no known connection with. To cut to the point, eventually a variant of the BUGBEAR virus got through and fired off infected e-mails to all and sundry including ETers. What the virus does is to read addresses off messages in your Inbox so Elephant Talk was prime territory for the virus as it contains lots of lovely e-mail addresses to fed on! I'm am sorry to have spread the virus to ETers, but I was a victim too you know!! Complaints to my ISP were certainly taken note of, in that my ability to send e-mails was suspended (however this was three days after I had become aware of the problem, upgraded my virus checker and cleaned my pc!!) The "Fripp-less Crim..." title of the infected e-mail was taken from an e-mail conversation that I had with Peter Sinfield last year regarding the 21st Century Schizoid Band. If there is someone trying to spoil it for us, then it certainly is not me!! Best wishes to all, keep your powder dry and your virus checker up-to-date! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:01:49 -0500 From: SteNavPix at aol dot com Subject: Fripp Sighting In Denver Hello, fellow Crimsonites. This is my first shot at submitting a post to the newsletter. I thought I might share an experience which happened at KC's recent performance in Denver on Nov. 5th. Myself and four friends attended the show. We arrived while Living Colour was performing their first tune. We got a malted, hopped beverage and proceeded to stand near the back, trying to get our bearings as to where we wanted to stand and enjoy the show. One of the ushers told us politely to move on. We walked down to the floor and found a spot just to the left of the soundboard. Here we could see the stage very well, it wan't too crowded and the sound was pretty good. So, as we start listening to Living Colour's set I notice this dimunutative, well-groomed, middle-aged man standing three feet in front of me. I think this is a little odd considering he appears to be totally into Living Colour's groove and doesn't "appear" to be of the sort who'd be into LC-know what I mean?. I then stepped sideways to tell a friend something and couldn't help notice this man looked somewhat familiar, even in the dark. I did one of those double-takes, and yes, there's ROBERT FRIPP! I immediately whisper to all my friends, "that's Robert Fripp, that's Robert Fripp!" I take care not to be too loud(hard to do while a loud band is on stage), or too obvious that we've spotted him, knowing he doesn't like to be approached. We spend the next three or four songs absorbing Living Colour with RF, who clapped and cheered very loudly after each LC tune. BTW, his aftershave smells quite nice. ;-) I'm thinking I'm wanting to at least tell him thanks for coming back to Denver since both KC shows were snowed-out because of a spring-time-in-the-Rockies blizzard last March. But when could I do this as to not interupt his obvious enjoyment of the music? Maybe as he's leaving I could just blurt it out as he walks away after LC's set is finished, hoping he'll hear me. Just then, along come this big lug of a fellow, recognizes Fripp and starts to approach...Just as the guy gets close enough to say something, Fripp immediatley puts his hand up in front of the guy and scampers into the darkness of the crowd like a frightened rabbit. This lug of a guy starts following him! Anyone who knows KC knows ya don't do that. Boy, I start thinking I hope RF's not put-off by this guy's behaviour in any manner, jeopardizing his performance, or perhaps having a negative effect on returning to Denver, or who knows what else, knowing RF's recent tales of negative audience experiences. Fear not, a minute later Fripp shows-up on the very opposite side of the soundboard, again focused on LC, and back into anonymital-bliss, where he remained for the rest of LC's set. Anyway, if you read this Mister Fripp. Thanks for coming back to Denver! We all thoroughly enjoyed the fantastic performance despite, as you put it in your diary entry from Denver, "There was some strangeness in the energy field. As to what it might have been, no idea". I also hope you'll return to Denver. Again, as you said in your diary, "The audience were supportive & generous & no flashes that I saw". :-) Best/peace, Steve Navarre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:54:35 EST From: RotateyDiskers at aol dot com Subject: Re. 21st Century Schizoid Band in London? > Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 00:52:07 +0100 > From: Per Wilhelmsson <perwil at swipnet dot se> > Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band in London? > Did anyone see their gig in London on the 31st? How was it? I would reallyhave liked > to see them but they > didn't tour Scandinavia./Per, Stockholm, Sweden Greetings, Yeah I saw the The Schizoid Band in London. They were rather good. If I had one complaint it was that The opener "Pictures Of A City" was too quiet as was the 'tron riff in Circus. The music did get progressively louder (no pun intended) and by the end of the night I was whistling loudly and shouting for more. It was a strange thing to see Mr McDonnald -the composer of those tunes that we know and love- playing them on stage with his 'tron samples. The Two saxes worked very well especially in "Schizoid Man" (parts I & II) However, one piece I thought was surprisingly, staggeringly good was "Ladies Of The Road" I never expected to enjoy it THAT much... all those lovely Beatle-esque vocal harmonies.. clear as a bell - and a corking groove to boot! Now, for me, the man of the match for authenticity was Peter Giles. I mean.. what a bass sound!! (None of those appalling sub-bass frequencies that sound engineers now use.. because they can... that ruins just about every gig that I see these days). Listening to the best live bass sound I've heard in years, sounding like I remember from "Poseidon.." I was in heaven. I don't want to write a whole review of the gig as it's all too personal to me, but I do want to congratulate the band on performing well and stiring up this old cynic and for re-affiming the magic that's available in that music. ... and to Ian Wallace I say this : "Schizoid unison section written in 4/4 eh?"... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:05:54 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: ET Spam-Virus At 07:51 PM 11/10/03 GMT, Steve wrote: > >I have to say I got the exact same, though if you looked at the bottom it >proves to be a fragment. I still have mine in quarantine. > >What was the filename attachment in your case? Mine was sarah.doc.pif - not >a Word doc at all, of course, but certainly raised my eyebrows since that's >my wife's name. > >Here's the header: > >>Received: from cmailm5.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.21]) >> >>Received: from modem-2023.bonobo.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.134.55.231] >>helo=k0r0r3) >> by cmailm5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.14) >> id 1AEXpO-0001hR-G8; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:40:22 +0000 >>From: "Stephen King" >>Subject: Re: In the Court of the Fripp-less Crim! > >Inquiries to fsnet.co.uk have been unanswered. Anyone else? What was your >filename? > Here is the actual 'received from' info from an ET newsletter: Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) As you can see, it's not the same as the one you've listed above. Today's viruses are extremely tricky. More often than not, not only will they take addresses from the victims address book to send themselves to, but they'll also take addresses to use for a fake return address and use a piece of e-mail from his mailbox as well! This causes all sorts of confusion. A person with a clean computer is accused of sending viruses and the real infected computer is very difficult to track down. It is my belief that these viruses are NOT being sent out by ET. However, I think it's very likely that the computer sending them is owned by an ET subscriber. And given that ET has so many subscribers (is it somewhere around 7,000, Toby?) it's not unlikely that some subscriber out there has a virus and is passing it around to others including other ET subscribers that may be in his address book. Likely the infected computer's e-mail address includes "pol.co.uk" in the suffix. Bottom line? Everyone should have an anti-virus program and should update the virus definition list at least once a week. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:02:30 -0800 (PST) From: rone at ennui dot org (rone) Subject: Trey Gunn in-store appearance For you lucky folks in or near Connecticut: To help celebrate and promote "Untune The Sky," Trey will be making a rare in store appearance on Sunday, November 16th, 2003 at CD REVOLUTION located at 516 Boston Post Road in Orange, CT. That same day, King Crimson will be playing at Toad's Place in New Haven, CT. Wish i were there. rone ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:32:10 -0000 From: "Alan Gent" Subject: Flash Photos There is no doubt that on the face of it, Fripp is a highly complex character who, if he doesn't cultivate, at least never dispels stories of a dark brooding figure, I can see where there are limits to what would be considered "media acquisition" at live gigs. Certainly bootleg recordings do nothing for a band's standing or bank balance. This has, of course been addressed, not least by KC, by the steady output of live material. However whilst again acknowledging that extensive photo footage again may have an impact on band income, I really do feel that no band can do a gig and expect no one to want to take photos. I suspect that Fripp now is working himself into a ball about this. Certainly if you think of a similar talent, though in my humble opinion, a superior one, Frank Zappa, Frank would never allow anything to get in the way of a solo. His concentration and expectation from the band, was total and few flashes? Come on! No, I suspect this is all part of a bigger picture of Fripp's ongoing dislike with touring (certainly in the UK) "Someone" ought to come clean and stop being so "deep and meaningful" Alan www.alangent.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:14:32 -0000 From: "Manek Dubash" Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band >Did anyone see their gig in London on the 31st? How was it? I would >really have liked to see them but they didn't tour Scandinavia. /Per, >Stockholm, Sweden Yes I went to the gig. Second time around (I saw them last year in London), it wasn't quite so amazing hearing members of the original band (well, Ian McDonald anyway) playing that music as it was first time around. That said, the sound was great as was the atmosphere - audience members actually talked to each other - and those who turned up seemed mostly to be first generation Crimheads (like me). Set list starts to fade now after a couple of weeks but didn't deviate much from last year's. Not in any particular order, it included ITCOTCK, Epitaph, Cat Food, Pictures of a City, Schizoid, ITWOP, Cadence, Ladies of the Road, Formentera Lady, Cirkus, Ian McD's Driver's Eyes, and a composition of Jakko's whose name I criminally forget (sorry Jakko). There were two encores, the first of which was Starless - this was a first, and a good version too, although Jakko, singing his heart out, couldn't quite capture Wetton's smoky flavour to the song which, for me, is one of the essences of this remarkable piece along with his brutally muscular bass line. Technically, the sound was good though I'd say the music missed Fripp. There was plenty of lyricism in Ian's and Jakko's performances and composition but it needed Fripp's ascerbity as a foil to slice through some of the more lush arrangements, especially in ITCOTCK where I missed the sound of the slashing guitar - Jakko was even (wrongly in my view) signalling the sound man to turn the volume of his axe down. Missing too was Peter Giles' bass solo (there was only a very short one). On a positive note, Mel Collins' sax playing was ferociously excellent - he was the real star of the show for me. One solo brought tears to my eyes, while his audience communication and evident enjoyment of what he was doing were manifest. He just seems to get better and better, and doesn't even seem to look any younger than he did 30 years ago. How does he do it? Oh yes, a few people were smoking and one even took photos. Manek ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:30:27 +0100 From: Haible Juergen Subject: Fripp's Soundscapes >What's the deal with Fripp's Soundscapes? Are they all live recordings >with the exception of The Gates of Paradise? Which one is considered >the best? My absolute favorite is November Suite. I have all of Fripp's Soundscape CDs, but for some reason it's always this November Suite that I play when I'm in "Soundscape Mood". I usually skip the first 4 "Green Park" tracks and start right with November Suite I. It's so beautiful. JH. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:32:10 -0000 From: "Jonathan Pinnock" Subject: KCCC24 and MusicMatch Anyone else noticed that MusicMatch reckons that KCCC 24 is actually Shostakovitch's 10th symphony? Come on, all you conspiracy theorists, let's get to work on this one! Jon Pinnock ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:30:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Bryce Sutherland Subject: Re: ET Spam-Virus "In ET #1153, Bryce Sutherland put forth: > Subject: Virus > > WARNING: I got sent an e-mail with the title "Re: In The Court Of A > Fripp-Less Crim". I thought it was authentic, but it had an attachment that > looked VERY suspicious... just a warning to you all. > > PS: Is this the very first King Crimson virus?? I have to say I got the exact same, though if you looked at the bottom it proves to be a fragment. I still have mine in quarantine. What was the filename attachment in your case? Mine was sarah.doc.pif - not a Word doc at all, of course, but certainly raised my eyebrows since that's my wife's name." A fragment, or a fracture, perhaps ;) The filename of the attachment was the same as yours, so it wasn't anything directed personally to you! I was notified by ET that it did in fact come from this mailing list, from the administrators, and they've done everything in their power to stop it happening again. Bryce Visit my site: www.bryce.uni.cc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 22:01:23 -0600 From: Jon Buckley Subject: GIG REVIEW: Park West Chicago 11-08-03 Gig REview: Park West Chicago 11-08-03 I had the distinct impression upon walking up to the line before entering the doors that the show had already "started." In fact, it was in this state of heightened awareness of myself, the environment, and other's actions that I felt that the course of the evening's event was forming through us as a group. This group came with any number of assumptions and attitudes, the noise of which was sure to drown out any chances for a real musical communion. Try though I might to change myself and my attitude... I was somewhat successfull personally, and only partially successful in extending a sense of calm awareness around a very few people immediately surrounding me. It never seases to amaze me how many people keep their internal and external automatic associative chatter going when Robert takes the stage. This chatter ebbed and fell while he was opening with the soundscape, as if Robert was attempting connection. While partially successfull, ultimately this attempt failed, and it made me wonder, even now one day after the event, what could possibly happen if everyone would put away all their excess baggage for 20 minutes and just be open and attentive to what is happening right in front of them? I finally "get" it. And in sensing what could be possible, I see how utterly miserable it is when it fails. If classical music concerts were this rudely greeted by it's audience I have no doubt that Conductor would be listed as one of the most suicide-prone jobs in the world. The RHVL wrote: > [Concerning] KC: the european tour did me a lot of damage, as does > public performance increasingly. the level of violation & negativity i > absorb is now unacceptable. so, i am looking at re-orienting my > professional life away from the public eye, which is a pity because i > now have enough experience to be useful. I totally understand this point of view afer last night's show. It's amazing that anyone would put up with this for so long. Obviously the potential payoff is huge... I distinctly felt the potential last evening. I also now know what it feels like as it slips away. The opening soundscape asks the question... are you prepared to listen? Are you willing to do your part? Unfortunately the answer from the audience was... as it must so frequently be... "NO!" The amazing thing was that was one of the most beautiful soundscapes I had ever heard... and as it ended it was so sad, because so much potential died right up there on stage with it's ebbing notes. The soundscape had rhythmn, it had harmony and it had beauty. How many people heard it? How many people just heard themselves? I mean really, keep your $45 and sit at home and talk to yourself. The effect would be the same, and it would be cheaper. If you want more concert "feeling" slip on the DVD and talk over it while it's playing. That's still a savings of a few bucks. Unless, of course, you enjoy going out and making other's lives miserable. It couldn't have been more ideal. The setup was perfect for it too... the Tom Waits recorded intro was an excellent choice as it required a great deal of attention simply to understand the words from "Alice." So the crowd was "primed" to be attentive. Only it didn't want to. What a pity because it seemed to me that the band, despite the blown potential was so "on." Oh, but what could have been? I ended up at the back of the theater, right in front of a couple of seated drunken oafs who decided to use their arrangements as a makeshift drum kit. The played poorly and with no sense of time. They were the icing on the cake. I stopped by DGM before I composed this note and the aphorism on the bottom of the page struck me: "Music changes when people hear it." I suppose that would be "if they hear it." I also saw: The audience is mother to the music. Well, Saturday night, Mom went for an abortion. Old Ears ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:37:42 -0700 (MST) From: ecerb at indra dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: Denver Last spring King Crimson paid a nice visit to Denver to watch the snow fall and fall and fall. Despite the snow being done by the time of their scheduled gig, the lack of a good loading zone at the Fillmore prevented them from being able to unload their gear and play. I had the fortune to run into 3/4 of the band over at the Mercury Cafe to hear Amy Denio and Janet Feder play. So it was a treat to have the lads back and playing this last week. Once again snow started to fall as our two car convoy left Boulder. But over the hill the skies and road dried up for a safe trip to the big city. The treat we have been getting in this area is Crimson playing a number of venues. After a disastrous last show at the Paramount, the energy of the Fillmore was good. Though I certainly find it ironic that with all his work at creating an independent record label, Fripp agrees to play at a Clear Channel venue. Living Color was a good opener, taking advantage of the size of the Fillmore's dance floor to get the crowd moving. I'd never seen Vernon Reid before and he seems to lose himself in a trance as his fingers race along the neck of the guitar. My favorite parts were the most Crimson inflected of his playing, the more far out jams as opposed to the speed playing. Doug Wimbish is also great to watch, laying down those big funky grooves. Of course his deep, low lines make the absence of Tony Levin more apparent to me. Crimson's set was good, though a few technical flaws emerged, the band never seemed to bog down in those moments. I found Fripp to enjoy playing more of the spare, soaring parts that to me make his playing so transcendent. Heck, there was even room to dance around during Dinosaur and Elephant Talk. It's a shame that the house had to be papered just to get the place to look like there was an audience. But despite having someone stop by to ask "what kind of music is King Crimson?" I saw few people leave. Next time how about bringing the show to the Boulder Theater? It's smaller and will feel less lonely and combines seats and a dance floor. With far better sound than the Fillmore! Elaine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:38:33 -0600 From: "D Jacobson" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Chicago 2 nights Please let me add to the previous reviews. I saw them both night at the Park West. Once from back, once up-front. Go see them! Upgrade or go early to get closer to the stage! Dan ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1155 *********************************